Weak links

[Steve Davy]

I'm real glad Zack Marzec didn't kill an innocent passenger before killing himself.

[Tad Eareckson]

What a callous, heartless, sad comment.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3380
Lauren and Paul in Zapata

Lauren Tjaden - 2008/07/21 14:27:04 UTC

Yesterday I chased Paul again. The tow rope weak link broke when Paul locked out and the weak link he got from Tad did not break.

Lessee, Lauren...

- Tad GAVE Paul a couple of 432 pound / Number 12 Bridle Links.

- Paul was flying one point on an...

http://www.willswing.com/news.asp?newsSeek=687

2008/06/08 - Paul Tjaden - Aeros Combat L 15

...Aeros Combat L 15, max certified operating weight - 345 pounds.

- The MINIMUM legal weak link for that glider is 276 pounds.

- An Industry Standard aerotow weak link puts that glider at 0.75 Gs. It's not legal.

- Unless you buy the crap Dr. Trisa Tilletti wrote in the 2012/06 issue of the magazine - and I'm assuming you do 'cause I didn't hear any of you Quest/Ridgely/Davis/Rooney douchebags taking issue with a single punctuation mark in that article.

- In that case an Industry Standard aerotow weak link puts that glider at 1.51 Gs / 520 pounds towline.

- My Bridle Link only put him at 1.25 Gs - a quarter G less than the Magic Fishing Line.

So pick one, Lauren. Was he flying with the 130 pound Greenspot illegally light or considerably heavier than my Bridle Link?

Russell said it was about the worst he has ever had his tail pulled around.

Russell's a moron.

Anyhow, I would advise against those weak links...

Why, oh glorious Lauren Eminently-Qualified-Tandem-Pilot Tjaden? 'Cause they don't break when they're SUPPOSED TO, before you can get into too much trouble - like the Industry Standard jobs...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27yFcEMpfMk

0:50
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JR_4jKLqrus


...always do?

So how do you feel about this...




...Tjaden Link here?

...though Tad's barrel releases do seem better able to release under stress.

Oh. They SEEM TO. Just a matter of OPINION though - no way to quantify anything.

After Russell got a new rope and Paul recovered, he was late leaving and got trapped under some cirrus.

Yeah, that was Tad's fault for putting poor trusting Paul up on a low mid legal range weak link - instead of one of THESE:

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Davis Straub - 2011/08/26 14:04:52 UTC

We had six weaklink breaks in a row at Zapata this year. Russell Brown (tug pilot, tug owner, Quest Air owner) said go ahead and double up (four strands of Cortland Greenspot). He knows I used his Zapata weaklink in Big Spring (pilots were asked to tell the tug pilot if they were doing that).

...rather than idiot fucking Russell Brown for violating FAA aerotowing regulations and not using a weak link heavier than the one on the glider.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3391
More on Zapata and weak link

Paul Tjaden - 2008/07/22 04:32:22 UTC

Hey Guys,

Once again, a couple more thoughts from Paul.

THOUGHTS, Paul? Is that what we're gonna get from you?

The lockout Lauren mentioned was precipitated by my attempt to pull on more VG while on tow.

Goddam fuckin' right it was - along with one of those world class thermals you were down there to exploit. So maybe it would've been good idea to prioritize flying the fuckin' glider over tweaking things until the tow was over.

I have done this before but this time the line wouldn't cleat properly and while I was fighting it, I got clobbered and rolled hard right in a split second.

No shit. Kinda like THIS?

Bill Bryden - 2000/02

Dennis Pagen informed me several years ago about an aerotow lockout that he experienced. One moment he was correcting a bit of alignment with the tug and the next moment he was nearly upside down. He was stunned at the rapidity. I have heard similar stories from two other aerotow pilots.

Ya think maybe Manned Kiting...

Manned Kiting
The Basic Handbook of Tow Launched Hang Gliding
by Daniel F. Poynter
1974

"Never take your hands off the bar." - Tom Peghiny

...is a better book than that piece of crap Dennis and Bill perpetrated?

There was a very large noise and jerk as the relatively heavy weak link at the tug broke giving me the rope.

Define "RELATIVELY HEAVY", asshole. Wanna give me something resembling an ACTUAL NUMBER? Just kidding.

I recovered quickly from the wing over and flew back to the field to drop the line and then re-launched after changing to a normal weak link.

- What's:
-- "a normal weak link"?
-- the breaking strength of "a normal weak link"?
- Is it ideal for use with "a normal glider"?
- What can "a normal weak link" be expected to do that an abnormal weak link can't?
- Who defined it as "a normal weak link" and what was his "thinking"?
- How did it compare in bench and flight testing to the abnormal weak links which were rejected as being too dangerous?

I have never had a lockout situation happen so quickly and dramatically and had no chance to release as I have always thought I could do.

- Why did you think you'd have a chance to release in a lockout situation in time to make any difference?

-- 'Cause you thought you were better than the scores of people who've been injured/mangled/killed since the dawn of hang glider towing who thought they were capable of controlling the glider through an emergency with one hand while reaching for a release with the other? A few of the most recent (at the time):
--- 1999/02/27 - Rob Richardson
--- 1999/12/11 - Debbie Young
--- 2004/06/26 - Mike Haas
--- 2005/05/29 - Holly Korzilius
--- 2006/01/19 - James Simpson
--- 2006/02/05 - John Dullahan

-- Why do you think Davis elected to remain on tow in this little 2004/08/02 gem:


http://ozreport.com/pub/images/fingerlakesaccident2.jpg
http://ozreport.com/pub/images/fingerlakesaccident3.jpg


until he shoved his brain damaged head through the undersurface?

-- How 'bout this asshole:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u51qpPLz5U0

09-0929


attempting aviation a couple months prior in the same place you were screwing your pooch?

- Which one of those Ridgely douchebags signed your ticket while you were suffering from the delusion that you'd have a chance to release in a lockout situation in time to make any difference?

- But it wasn't worth looking into the multi-string releases Steve Kinsley and I had been developing...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=70921
Mouth Release . . . Here we go again

Craig Stanley - 2009/06/02 01:24:59 UTC

Sorry to stir this up again, but I wanted to give a quick update on the mouth release. I added another loop into the release and I have to say, I love this thing.

Tension at the mouth is low and comfortable. Locking it off with the sliding barrel at altitude is quite simple. Releasing couldn't be easier.

Yesterday I was hit with a quarter side/tailwind off the cart. I got really high and to the left of the tug. I was pulling in and turning back to the right to get in line with the tug, but the tug was unable to climb fast enough and I could not dive fast enough. By just opening my mouth, I was free of the tug. I did not have to take my hands off the bar and let the glider get in a worse AoA or turn.

I'm sure my release is not the best one out there (I think the mouth-throttle version is good as well), but I strongly believe having a mouth release adds a lot of safety to towing from the chest.

Antoine Saraf - 2012/02/08 11:13:07 UTC

I made 4-strings (ratio 60) AND remote barrel (ratio 16.4), I love them.

...three plus years prior.

Had the tugs link not broken, things could have gotten very ugly very fast.

- Things HAD gotten very ugly very fast - you goddam moron. If this had happened low with a Davis Link while you had both hands on the basetube...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Marc Fink - 2011/08/28 21:11:09 UTC

I once locked out on an early laminarST aerotowing. went past vertical and past 45 degrees to the line of pull-- and the load forces were increasing dramatically. The weaklink blew and the glider stalled--needed every bit of the 250 ft agl to speed up and pull out. I'm alive because I didn't use a stronger one.

...your useless ass would've been FUCKED.

- And you're saying that in addition to you admitting that you'd have had no ability to release yourself at any point in the emergency Russell would've been equally helpless.

- Did you consider using your hook knife?

HANG GLIDING FOR BEGINNER PILOTS
By Peter Cheney
Published by Matt Taber
Official Flight Training Manual of the U. S. Hang Gliding Association

Towing equipment

- Hook knife: A hook knife is a razor-sharp cutting tool that can slash through lines in an instant. You should never tow without one - in an emergency, you can use it to cut the tow-line or bridle. The hook knife must be mounted on your harness so that you can reach it quickly and easily.

It's a razor-sharp cutting tool that can slash through lines in an instant. Watch how Todd does it here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJGUJO5BjnA


- Have you considered taking a towing clinic with...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=14230
pro tow set-up

Ryan Voight - 2009/11/03 20:51:52 UTC

My whole point is that people tend to "hang on" too long trying to save things, rather than recognize a bad situation and release (one way or another), go back, and reset.

...Ryan Voight so you'll learn not to "hang on" too long trying to save things, rather than recognizing a bad situation and releasing (one way or another), going back, and resetting?

I still don't like weak links breaking when they shouldn't...

Like...

Donnell Hewett - 1981/10

Now I've heard the argument that "Weak links always break at the worst possible time, when the glider is climbing hard in a near stall situation," and that "More people have been injured because of a weak link than saved by one."

...at the worst possible time, when the glider is climbing hard in a near stall situation?

You just like them breaking when it's convenient for you, to compensate for your incompetence and the useless equipment you've elected to go up on?

...but the one I was using was way too strong.

Really Paul? WAY too strong? By how much? Fifty, a hundred, two hundred pounds?

Give us a number that will meet your expectation that it:
- break as early as possible in lockout situations;
- but be strong and reliable enough to avoid frequent breaks from turbulence; and
- perform the same on any glider you're gonna hook up behind a Dragonfly.

And in the meantime just keep on going up with the Quest standard aerotow weak links that break "when they shouldn't" and Quest standard bent pin Bailey release that, when the shit hits the fan, you now know beyond any doubt you will have no chance to actuate as you've always thought you could" and hope that nothing bad ever happens down in the kill zone.

Shithead.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3391
More on Zapata and weak link

Tad Eareckson - 2008/07/22 12:45:07 UTC

Paul,

I'm pretty sure I gave you a couple of 12 stitch White/Orange bridle links - possibly the next step down but definitely no higher.

I'm REALLY sorry if I neglected to state or failed to make clear at the time that you can pretty much count on getting a couple of hundred feet of Spectra if things get out of kilter enough.

Fuck you, Paul. I withdraw that apology. I did MY job and set you up with a safe weak link for your glider. It's not my fault if you flew behind some douchebag with no interest whatsoever in complying with FAA safety regulations.

But even if the other end of the tow line were completely devoid of weak links things would only have gotten another 20 pounds and millisecond or two worth of ugly - assuming Russell had a double loop of Greenspot up front.

Which he did.

The double loop incorporated in the relatively long Dragonfly bridle blows at close to 400 pounds of tow line tension and the White/Orange fails very close to 420 - so what you felt was about what you woulda got - minus about a fat house cat.

There are, however, five 35 pound increments available below what you were using - 385, 350, 315, 280, and 245. That gets you below what a single loop of Greenspot on a one point bridle would do - 280 - if it were reliable - which, as we all know all too well, it ain't.

Never mind, Paul. These are ACTUAL NUMBERS - and Flight Park Mafia people don't DO numbers. They just rack up long track records.

If you're interested in dumbing down from what you were and up from what you are using - pick a number and I'll be happy to send you a couple. Otherwise I'd recommend just using a double loop. That'll dial you down to about one and a third Gs.

And you never bothered to respond to me anyway so go fuck yourself.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3600
Weak link question

Lauren Tjaden - 2008/11/20 22:50:53 UTC

Our weak links are not ideal...

- Sure they are, Lauren. They're based on several decades of experience and hundreds of thousands of tows conducted by numerous aerotow operators across the county. And they have very long track records.

- So what's wrong with them? They don't entirely meet your expectation that they break as early as possible in lockout situations but be strong and reliable enough to avoid frequent breaks from turbulence?

...and I appreciate Tad's efforts to improve our towing safety.

Sure ya do Lauren. And I really appreciate the way you've adopted so much of the technology I've developed.

These efforts have also included the types of releases we use and their location.

But you ultimately decided I was barking up the wrong tree. Well, I guess I'll just hafta get back to the drawing board and try to figure out some way to get my work up to your sterling standards.

I practiced releasing using varied types of release under load (on the ground) at Highland this year, and found it very educational.

Yeah, right.

When pro-towing...

If you ever had the slightest potential for being educated you wouldn't be calling one point "pro-towing".

...the method the pilot uses to release can be very important (something I'd never realized...

Oh. You never REALIZED that? Despite all of your excellent instruction at Ridgely?

...since I've - knock on wood - never locked out while pro-towing).

Just stay with what you've been using.

Paul Tjaden - 2008/07/22 04:32:22 UTC

I have never had a lockout situation happen so quickly and dramatically and had no chance to release as I have always thought I could do.

You'll be fine. And hell, it was good enough for Steve Instructor-of-the-Year Wendt and Holly.

I found that the only way to release under strong loads...

Define "strong loads" using actual numbers. (Just kidding.)

...(with either curved or straight pin releases) was to grab the TOP of the barrel instead of just grasping around its sides.

BULLSHIT.

You weren't using one of MY straight pin releases 'cause if you had pulled it under a two or three hundred pound load that way it would've taken one of your fingers off. You were using some fat barrel piece of crap with no mechanical advantage. And my barrels are too narrow to give anything to grip at the end.

And Brian Vant-Hull said he could blow the better part of four hundred gripping the sides with two fingers.

But about the weak links.

Now that we've dispensed with any and all possible release related issues... Yeah, why don't you tell us all about weak links, Lauren Eminently-Qualified-Tandem-Pilot Tjaden.

My husband, Paul has suffered more weak link breaks than I have...

SUFFERED more weak link breaks? I thought all weak link breaks were GOOD things, always increasing the safety of the towing operation.

...which is certainly due to his weight.

Do ya THINK?

(At least that's his excuse. Heeheehee. Paul told me to put in this line.)

How much laughing have you been doing down there since Saturday afternoon?

I have broken one in the last two years, with LOTS of tows.

So fuckin' what?
- You were straight and level in smooth air when it blew.
- If it had blown when you were in the same circumstances as Zack you'd have been equally fucked.

Tad gave Paul a couple of HIS links while we were at the ECCs this year. Paul used them happily (without any situation that might cause a problem) until one day at Zapata in rough air while he was attempting to adjust his VG.

And my weak link didn't realize that and compensate for it accordingly? Lemme see if I can come up with something that will automatically switch into asshole mode.

Paul locked out badly and the link didn't break.

NO!!! And everybody KNOWS that weak links are supposed to break as soon as they sense the glider starting a lockout!

The double weak-link attached to the tug plane BROKE because the forces were so extreme.

Oh no! EXTREME forces!!! All the way up to the extreme forces this moron finally figured out he needed...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Davis Straub - 2011/08/26 14:04:52 UTC

We had six weaklink breaks in a row at Zapata this year. Russell Brown (tug pilot, tug owner, Quest Air owner) said go ahead and double up (four strands of Cortland Greenspot).

...to get solo gliders off the ground at a better than zero in six success rate.

Russell quoted afterward that he'd never had his tail pulled around so violently.

If I put a Marzec Link on a two hundred pound glider it can pull the Dragonfly's tail sideways 260 pounds worth. Wanna take a stab at what that can do in terms of rudder overpowering?

Luckily, Paul's glider was not stressed to the point of failure, and Paul was able to drop the rope and landed safely.

But it was REAL CLOSE, wasn't it Lauren? Definitely over six Gs. And Paul's eyes were all bloodshot from when the capillaries burst. Fuck you.

My only point here...

What makes you think you are now or ever will be competent enough to be making POINTS?

...is that Tad's releases...

I got news for ya, Lauren. Despite what you've been told by the total morons who "trained" you and signed your ticket taught you, a WEAK LINK is NOT a type of RELEASE. Releases and weak links are separate and distinct components of a towing system with separate and distinct functions. I could go on and try to explain them to you but you'd need at least a double digit IQ to stand a chance of comprehension.

...have not been extensively tested...

I spent a whole goddam winter developing, refining, and testing those things - shithead. I didn't just proclaim values - the way all your lying, criminally negligent, serial killing buddies did.

...and at least in my experience with them...

You don't have any experience with them. And you don't have a tiny fraction of the brain power you'd need to be able to interpret anything that's going on.

...are not safe.

Go fuck yourself. And fuck everybody else who's listening to this brain dead rot and letting you get away with it.

I just don't want pilots...

You don't know any PILOTS, Lauren.

...to think...

And I wouldn't worry about the possibility of anybody in your circle of friends doing any THINKING.

...that his weak links are entirely the answer.

To what problem, Lauren?

- Sensing that the asshole at the other end of a 250 foot rope is using a dangerously light and illegal weak link and dumbing itself down accordingly? No, it won't do that.

- Meeting your expectation that it break as early as possible in lockout situations but be strong and reliable enough to avoid frequent breaks from turbulence? No, it won't do that either.

- Break within about ten percent of a predicted strain level to guarantee that a release or glider won't be overloaded in flight? Yeah, it'll do that.

Tad is very smart...

I'm not all that smart, Lauren. But compared to you and the company you keep...

...and is trying to address the problems he sees...

- I didn't fuckin' TRY, Lauren. I fuckin' DID IT. But you goddam scummy idiot dregs of the gene pool worked together to make sure it never got into circulation on any significant scale.

- "He sees"? So there aren't any REAL problems 'cause Tad's the only one who sees them. Everything is absolutely perfect from everyone else's perspective.

...so he should get kudos for that.

Oh, thank you so VERY MUCH. I SO have enjoyed all the kudos I've received from your crowd.

But be very careful before you buy into the "great-new-weak-link-thing."

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=27393
Pro towing: 1 barrel release + weak link or 2 barrel release

Juan Saa - 2012/10/18 01:19:49 UTC

The normal braking force in pounds for a weak link is around 180, at least that is the regular weak link line used at most aerotow operations. By adding a second weak link to your bridal you are cutting the load on each link by half meaning that the weak link will not break at the intended 180 pounds but it will need about 360.
If that is what you use and is what your instructor approved then I have no business on interfering i dont know if you are using the same weak link material but there shoul be only ONE weak link on a tow bridle for it to be effective in breaking before higher loads are put into you and the glider should the glider gets to an attitude or off track so much that the safety fuse of the link is needed to break you free from the tug.
I made the same mistake on putting two weak links thinking that I was adding protection to my setup and I was corrected by two instructors on separate occacions at Quest Air and at the Florida RIdge.

Rot in hell, Lauren.

Everybody see how this system works?

- Generation One instructors with IQs of about fifty start signing off people with forty IQs 'cause they can squeak by on their standards - and anybody who suggests that a weak link should be bench tested and vary in direct proportion to glider weight is an obnoxious Tad clone who will be voted off the island in short order.

- The forty IQ people then grow up, become the Generation Two instructors who start signing off people with thirty IQs 'cause they can squeak by on THEIR standards.

- Et cetera.

- And with each generation the environment becomes more and more hostile to the tiny minority of people in hang gliding who aren't total vegetables.

Can anybody even begin to imagine what Juan's students will be teaching when THEY become instructors?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-bRrpHNa68iY/UQ6Pv9gRZyI/AAAAAAAAjTg/Hc22bx5122Q/s2048/20943781_BG1.jpg

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30912
Death at Quest Air

Davis Straub - 2013/02/03 02:45:02 UTC

Little news now (Quest Air, Groveland, Florida)

Paul Tjaden writes on Facebook:

We will post more about the accident...

Accident my ass, Paul. Try negligent homicide.

...on the Quest FB page in the coming days.

Yeah, Paul. Make sure everybody gets his story straight.

For now I will say that it appears to have been a fluke accident.

Sure it does, Paul.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Davis Straub - 2011/08/26 14:04:52 UTC

We had six weaklink breaks in a row at Zapata this year. Russell Brown (tug pilot, tug owner, Quest Air owner) said go ahead and double up (four strands of Cortland Greenspot). He knows I used his Zapata weaklink in Big Spring (pilots were asked to tell the tug pilot if they were doing that).

When nobody hits the ground...

0:50
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JR_4jKLqrus


...it's business as usual. When somebody DOES hit the ground - it's a "fluke accident".

Kinda like when one of your idiot Ridgely buddies is so dedicated to stopping on his feet as close to his predetermined target as possible...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3167
Freak accident at Highland

Paul Tjaden - 2008/04/12 12:40:28 UTC

Anyway, apparently John was a bit low on final approach and hooked his feet on a runway marker stopping his forward momentum and causing him to hammer in pretty hard. John told me he was transitioning to the down tubes at the wrong moment and missed the left tube so he wasn't able to push out a bit to clear the obstacle with more room.

Anyway, his new Combat had extensive damage and John suffered a broken humerus on one side and wrist on the other.

...that he flies into a taxiway sign, trashes a brand new glider, and breaks a humerus on one side and a wrist on the other it's a freak accident.

There are NO ACCIDENTS in hang gliding, Paul - let alone FREAK accidents. And anyone who believes otherwise IS NOT A *PILOT* - he's just an asshole who flies stuff and gets away with it most of the time.

Weather conditions were very benign with light winds and blue skies and the glider was in good airworthy condition.

So much for the sprogs defense.

We are all sick about this untimely loss of our good friend, Zack.

Fuck you, Paul. At the ECC on 2008/06/02 - after Lauren blew a Quest Link straight and level at about the same altitude and found herself walking her glider back down the runway while other folk were going on task you said:

"Those things are dangerous."

That was while I was getting your flying weight (at that time I didn't understand the maximum certified flying weight thing 'cause I was still suffering a few lingering effects of Hewett poisoning), giving you a pair of one and quarter G Bridle Links, and refusing payment.

(And we all know how the rest of that story went.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=12587
weak links (here we go)

Patrick Halfhill - 2009/06/21 23:22:23 UTC

Another pilot that was convinced at the ECC that he needed a stronger weaklink, took his to Texas and I believe through it away after a near death experience.

FUCK YOU.)

You KNEW they were dangerous, it's OBVIOUS that...

We had six weaklink breaks in a row at Zapata this year.

...they're illegally understrength for damn near every every glider out there. But you kept on putting people up on them 'cause...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24534
It's a wrap

Paul Tjaden - 2011/07/30 15:33:54 UTC

Quest Air has been involved in perfecting aerotowing for nearly twenty years.

...they're the focal point of the safe towing system you Quest pigfuckers have been perfecting for nearly twenty years.

And Saturday afternoon you pigfuckers rolled the dice one too many times and everything lined up WRONG.

And the asshole who bought it had too many merit badges and was too popular for the usual cover story built on the incompetence of the dead guy. So good freakin' luck with the freak accident defense.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/officials-man-killed-hang-gliding-crash-lake-count/nWDm3/
Officials: Man killed in hang gliding crash in Lake County | WFTV

wftv.com 9 - 2013/02/02 23:11 UTC

Officials: Man killed in hang gliding crash in Lake County

LAKE COUNTY, Fla. - Officials in Lake County said a man was killed in a hang gliding crash Saturday afternoon.

Yeah. See that, folks? The coverup guy call's it a "fluke accident". The mainstream media calls it what it is - A *CRASH*.

The crash happened on a runway at the Groveland airport around 3 p.m., officials said.

The victim...

Yes. Of his own stupidity and incompetence and the stupidity and incompetence of the people with whom he chose to associate.

...identified as 27-year-old Zachary Marzec, was piloting the hang glider...

No he wasn't. He was just some bozo suspended from the thing along for the ride.

- He was "pro-towing" 'cause he was so good that he didn't need a two point bridle to trim the nose down to the point at which he could utilize the speed range for which the glider was certified.

- He was using a bent pin Quest "release" which, in an emergency, would've given him:

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3391
More on Zapata and weak link

Paul Tjaden - 2008/07/22 04:32:22 UTC

I have never had a lockout situation happen so quickly and dramatically and had no chance to release as I have always thought I could do.

-- no chance to release if the shit had really hit the fan

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3107
I have a tandem rating!!!

Lauren Tjaden - 2008/03/23 22:20:15 UTC

The barrel release wouldn't work because we had too much pressure on it.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=21033
barrels release without any tension except weight of rope..

Bart Weghorst - 2011/02/25 19:06:26 UTC

But I've had it once where the pin had bent inside the barrel from excessive tow force. My weaklink was still intact. The tug pilot's weaklink broke so I had the rope. I had to use 2 hands to get the pin out of the barrel.
No stress because I was high.

-- no guarantee that he'd have been able to blow if he had been able to get to it

Dennis Pagen - 2005/01

By the time we gained about sixty feet I could no longer hold the glider centered - I was probably at a twenty degree bank - so I quickly released before the lockout to the side progressed. The glider instantly whipped to the side in a wingover maneuver.

-- no ability to safely control the glider during and after any release he may or may not have been able to effect

- He was using a piece of fishing line as the focal point of his safe towing system which...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Davis Straub - 2011/08/26 14:04:52 UTC

We had six weaklink breaks in a row at Zapata this year.

...gave him no ability to remain on tow safely and reliably under ordinary circumstances and a virtual guarantee that he'd be blown off in circumstances in which his life was dependent upon his ability to stay on - as was the case Saturday afternoon.

...when it crashed onto the runway.

Marzec was rushed to South Lake Hospital, where he was pronounced dead. Officials said Marzec is from out of state.

The sheriff's office is investigating the crash.

I so do hope the sheriff's office consults with Russell, Bobby, Mitch, Paul, Lauren, and Dr. Trisa Tilletti so he gets a solid understanding of hang glider aerotowing and can thus come to the same conclusion the La Salle County Sheriff's Office did after the Jeremiah Thompson / Arlan Birkett double.

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/24 16:26:09 UTC

Because it did.
Plain and simple. Sometimes the mystic forces of the universe do strange and unusual things.

Sometimes shit just happens. String theory or sumpin'. Who knows?

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.cfnews13.com/content/news/cfnews13/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2013/2/2/man_killed_in_hang_g.html
Man killed in hang glider crash at Lake County airport

CFnews13.com - 2013/02/02 23:39 UTC

Man killed in hang glider crash at Lake County airport

The Lake County Sheriff's Office said Zachary Marzec, 27, was taken to the hospital after his hang glider crashed on the runway at the Groveland Airport.

Marzec, who deputies said was from Illinois, later died from his injuries.

Investigators said the hang glider fell to the ground after some kind of accident during flight.

The fuckin' "accident" started 32 years before the glider got on the cart - when Donnell started publishing his Skyting "theory" articles and people started swallowing all that crap hook, line, and sinker.

The crash is being investigated as an accident.

Super! You've already determined that it was an "ACCIDENT" so why bother investigating it as the negligent homicide that it was?

EVERYBODY, Quest, Davis, Ryan, the Flight Park Mafia, USHGA, Tim Herr, Dr. Trisa Tilletti, Lake County, the Sheriff's Office, the FAA, all the Hang Two and Three shits who've been pissing all over Tad and his clones whenever these discussions come up, HPAC, BHPA, HGFA, wants this to be an accident - a once in twenty years FREAK accident.

That way nobody has to worry about criminal and civil charges, the tourist industry, the hang gliding industry, careers, reputations, admissions that Tad knew what he was talking about...

Tad Eareckson - 2012/12/22 19:09:30 UTC

So when someone gets his face smashed in on video because of a standard aerotow weak link blow at half or three quarters of a G and there's a lawsuit and/or FAA/NTSB investigation it'll NEVER be because of an illegally light 130 pound Greenspot weak link. It'll be because the pilot was negligent and:
-- didn't tie and/or install it properly
-- used it for too many tows (two or so)
-- failed to inspect it for damage on the preflight
-- got a bad batch of material from somewhere else
-- pushed out too hard
-- did a Mach 5 cart exit
-- slammed into the wall of propwash behind a 914 Dragonfly

Oops! I forgot "freak accident"! How could a possibly have forgotten "freak accident"?

http://questairhanggliding.com/

Quest Air Hang Gliding

Give your dreams wings!

Quest Air Hang Gliding offers:

- The highest and the best Discovery Tandem Hang Gliding Flights in the Sunshine State
- Hang gliding instruction from top-notch instructors that are dedicated to your success
- A private lake complete with paddleboat, plus a swimming pool, tree house and clubhouse, all available for you to use without charge

And no fatal freak accidents in almost five days now!
- We've been doing this a long time and are quite familiar and comfortable with our processes.
- See, the thing is... "we", the people that work at and run aerotow parks, have a long track record.
- This stuff isn't new, and has been slowly refined over decades.
- We have done quite literally hundreds of thousands of tows.
- We know what we're doing.

We're a mere 30 minutes from Orlando's theme parks and fly 365 days a year, as long as Mother Nature cooperates.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3h1uyn_zTlo

7-14522


Bring the kids!

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30912
Death at Quest Air

Jim Rooney - 2013/02/03 10:57:17 UTC

I hate getting "that" phone call. I got it this morning.

How very odd. I LOVE hearing about these. When you've been fighting standard aerotow weak links for as many years as I have and been getting nothing but pissed all over for your efforts by Ridgely, Manquin, Kitty Hawk, Quest, et cetera SCUM such as yourself...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/25 04:55:25 UTC

Don't even get me started on Tad. That obnoxious blow hard has gotten himself banned from every flying site that he used to visit... he doesn't fly anymore... because he has no where to fly. His theories were annoying at best and downright dangerous most of the time. Good riddance.

...you might as well start enjoying them.

I'm considering becoming an asshole.

Better do it in very small increments. Converting in a time frame of anything under eighteen months or so might prove too much of a shock for your system to bear.

With all the nice people dying, it just seems safer. So kiss my ass.

I got plans for your ass, Jim. But none of them involve kissing it.

I met Zach up at Morningside.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22660
What can be learned from this "scooter" towing accident?

Mitch Shipley - 2011/01/31 15:22:59 UTC

Enjoy your posts, as always, and find your comments solid, based on hundreds of hours / tows of experience and backed up by a keen intellect/knowledge of the issues when it comes to most things in general and hang gliding AT/Towing in particular. Wanted to go on record in case anyone reading wanted to know one persons comments they should give weight to.

Where, obviously, he benefitted from your solid comments, keen intellect, knowledge of the issues when it comes to most things in general and hang glider aerotowing in particular.

Zach was hard not to like... and hard not to like instantly.

Thanks for adding a lot of credibility to my prediction that if I had known him I'd have despised him. Anybody you like and people who will have anything to do with you...

He will be sorely missed.

Aren't you gonna say anything about...

Jim Rooney - 2011/09/02 19:41:27 UTC

Please note that the weaklink *saved* her ass. She still piled into the earth despite the weaklink helping her... for the same reason it had to help... lack of towing ability.

...how the Quest Link *saved* his ass from being killed more quickly? About how he still piled into the earth despite the Quest Link helping him... for the same reason it had to help... lack of towing ability?

There must be THOUSANDS of your admirers anxiously awaiting the benefit of your solid comments, keen intellect, knowledge of the issues when it comes to most things in general and aerotowing in particular so that we can get to the bottom of this and prevent a recurrence of this tragedy. Without the one person's comments to which we should give the most weight we're all adrift at sea without any manner of compass.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30912
Death at Quest Air

Kinsley Sykes - 2013/02/03 16:54:14 UTC

My deepest condolences to his family and friends.

Is that all you got to say...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=16265
weaklinks

Kinsley Sykes - 2010/03/18 19:42:19 UTC

In the old threads there was a lot of info from a guy named Tad. Tad had a very strong opinion on weak link strength and it was a lot higher than most folks care for. I'd focus carefully on what folks who tow a lot have to say. Or Jim Rooney who is an excellent tug pilot. I tow with the "park provided" weak links. I think they are 130 pound Greenspot.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Kinsley Sykes - 2011/08/31 11:35:36 UTC

Well actually he didn't. But if you don't want to listen to the folks that actually know what they are talking about, go ahead.
Feel free to go the the tow park that Tad runs...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=26870
weak links

Kinsley Sykes - 2012/08/17 20:29:21 UTC

Zack - I choose not to get on the Tad part 2 merry-go-round. But please enjoy yourself.

...ASSHOLE? Aren't you:

- gonna speculate on what strength weak link Zack Marzec was wishing he had cared for as he was whipstalling back into the runway right after his "park provided" piece of shit disintegrated?

- eager to hear from Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney, who is an excellent tug pilot, why this freak accident occurred at the park Russell, Paul, Lauren, and Mitch run and how we might prevent a rerun?

- wondering why we still haven't heard anything from Lauren Eminently-Qualified-Tandem-Pilot Tjaden and the rest of the Quest folk who actually know what they're talking about on what went wrong?