http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec
Deltaman - 2013/02/08 13:57:01 UTC
What lacks to your friend Zack is a good understanding of what should be a weaklink..
Its purpose is not to protect the pilot as every ranches are saying but just to protect the glider from overload.
Davis Straub - 2013/02/08 16:57:42 UTC
All the flight parks that I am aware of are quite aware of this. They tell their pilots that the point of the weak link is save the glider from overload and that they should not rely on the weaklink to save them.
A little more on this outrageous bullshit statement, Davis...
http://www.wallaby.com/aerotow_primer.php
Wallaby...
A weak link connects the V-pull to the release, providing a safe limit on the tow force. If you fail to maintain the correct tow position (centered, with the wheels of the tug on the horizon), the weak link will break before you can get into too much trouble.
Ridgely...
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
Jim Rooney - 2011/08/26 02:44:10 UTC
The "purpose" of a weaklink is to increase the safety of the towing operation. PERIOD.
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=17404
Aerotow barrel release - straight or curved pin?
Manquin...
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=17404
Aerotow barrel release - straight or curved pin?
Jim Rooney - 2010/05/31 01:53:13 UTC
BTW, Steve Wendt is exceptionally knowledgeable. Hell, he's the one that signed off my instructor rating.
Steve Wendt - 2007/03
Blue Sky Scooter Towing Method, Equipment & Practices.
But with the towline we use a standard weak link like we would for aerotow...
Lookout...
Lockouts can be prevented by using good technique, light tow pressures, and appropriately-sized weak links--if you get too far off heading, and a lockout begins to develop, a proper weak link will break and release you from tow.
Cloud 9...
We want our weak links to break as early as possible in lockout situations, but be strong and reliable enough to avoid frequent weak link breaks from turbulence. It is the same expectation of performance that we have for the weak links we use for towing sailplanes.
Quest...
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24534
It's a wrap
Lauren Tjaden - 2011/08/01 02:01:06 UTC
For whomever asked about the function of a weak link, it is to release the glider and plane from each other when the tow forces become greater than desirable -- whether that is due to a lockout or a malfunction of equipment or whatever. This can save a glider, a tow pilot, or more often, a hang glider pilot who does not get off of tow when he or she gets too far out of whack.
Cowboy Up...
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
Bart Weghorst - 2011/08/28 20:29:27 UTC
Now I don't give a shit about breaking strength anymore. I really don't care what the numbers are. I just want my weaklink to break every once in a while.
It's pretty fuckin' obvious that there's not a single mainstream Dragonfly operation that has a goddam clue what the purpose of a weak link is and is able to think of it and teach people to think of it as anything other than lockout protection for the pilot.
And lemme tell ya, motherfucker...
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=26870
weak links
Davis Straub - 2012/08/13 18:08:42 UTC
Used to do 130 lbs. Now do 200 lbs.
Anybody who's using 130 or 200 on a bridle end on ANY glider is NOT using it to protect the glider from being overloaded.
And let's look at just how this "standard aerotow weak link" bullshit...
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec
Jim Rooney - 2013/02/13 19:09:33 UTC
Can you explain, then, exactly how we arrived at the current 130 lb weak link standard?
It was already worked out by the time I arrived.
...was worked out before Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney descended from the heavens to save all of humanity from the lunacy of Tad and anybody else capable of adding two plus two and getting four.
From this link:
http://www.questairforce.com/aero.html
that was up forever before going dead maybe four years ago...
Quest Air
Aerotow FAQ
Equipment and Accessories
Weak Link
The strength of the weak link is crucial to a safe tow. It should be weak enough so that it will break before the pressure of the towline reaches a level that compromises the handling of the glider but strong enough so that it doesn't break every time you fly into a bit of rough air. A good rule of thumb for the optimum strength is one G, or in other words, equal to the total wing load of the glider. Most flight parks use 130 lb. braided Dacron line, so that one loop (which is the equivalent to two strands) is about 260 lb. strong - about the average wing load of a single pilot on a typical glider. For tandems, either two loops (four strands) of the same line or one loop of a stronger line is usually used to compensate for nearly twice the wing loading. When attaching the weak link to the bridle, position the knot so that it's hidden from the main tension in the link and excluded altogether from the equation.
That's the entire history of and extent to which Bobby Fucking-Genius Bailey and the rest of those Quallaby assholes experimented, worked things out, and established this damnable piece of fishing line as Pilot In Command of untold hundreds of thousands of flights - a HUGE percentage of them ending unsuccessfully and much worse...
- Saying that the strength of the weak link is crucial to a safe tow is like saying that the capacity of the parachute or shock absorbing quality of the helmet is crucial to a safe tow. A weak link, parachute, or helmet ONLY become relevant AFTER the pooch has been majorly screwed and shouldn't be counted on to do much good.
The fuckin' weak link is the first thing you'd throw away from your towing system if you were forced to make a sacrifice because it's something you're extremely unlikely to ever need - in contrast to a release which you're gonna need and use EVERY flight.
- These assholes were and are totally incapable of working out the difference between TENSION and PRESSURE.
- There's no such thing as a weak link which is capable of both strong enough to get a glider airborne and weak enough so that a MISALIGNED "pressure" can't compromise the glider's handling enough to kill it in a heartbeat.
- This shit fishing line that these assholes tried to use to achieve this totally fictional goal not only can't handle the least bit of rough air but frequently blows with the glider straight and level in smooth air on medium weight glider and virtually guarantees a kill in a Zack Marzec situation for any glider you wanna name.
- The "good rule of thumb" of one G is a figure that Donnell Hewett pulled out of his ass in 1980 under the INSANE ASSUMPTION that a glider on tow couldn't get into too much trouble with that limitation. (Big thanks to Zack Marzec here for demonstrating just how insane that assumption and rule of thumb was.)
- People who aren't total shitheads understand that weak link rating has NOTHING to do with "the total WING LOAD of the glider" and EVERYTHING to do with the LOAD CAPACITY of the glider.
- There's no fucking such thing as an "optimum" weak link strength because you can't predict what will happen in an emergency / compromised control situation as a consequence of a blow or a continuation of the tow but around one and a half Gs is a reasonable compromise. That's strong enough to pull you through some pretty ugly situations and weak enough such that the combination of stresses on the glider - flying weight, tow tension, centrifugal force - are unlikely to exceed three Gs.
- Most flight parks use 130 pound braided Dacron line because the kinds of low double digit IQ folk running the flight parks just blindly follow whatever moronic precedent Bobby Fucking-Genius Bailey sets.
- And the moronic precedent Bobby Fucking-Genius Bailey set in this particular instance is based upon that shithead's ASSUMPTION that a Bobby Loop blows at twice the value it does when you go to the trouble to TEST it.
- And Bobby Fucking-Genius Bailey is also too astoundingly stupid to understand that using a bridle to split the load between the pilot and glider or between two attachment points on the pilot's shoulders reduces or halves the strain on the weak link.
- And Bobby Fucking-Genius Bailey is also too stupid to understand that using a bridle to split the load between the pilot and glider necessitates a bridle with a significant apex angle and that introduces a significant increase above half towline to the strain on the weak link.
- And after we've gotten all of the above layers of pig shit ladled onto us we're only concerned about the "TYPICAL" glider - which as we all know, weighs 260 pounds. So we really don't need to worry about 180 and 360 pound gliders. 130 pound Greenspot is "optimal" for them so fuck everybody else.
- As Bobby Fucking-Genius Bailey and his shitheaded buddies are too fucking stupid to be capable of understanding the difference between TENSION and PRESSURE (pounds and pounds per square inch) they are likewise too fucking stupid to be capable of understanding the difference between FLYING WEIGHT and WING LOADING (pounds and pounds per square foot) and that while the flying weight of a tandem tends to be (but isn't always) a lot greater than a solo the wing loading stays around the same.
- And Bobby Fucking-Genius Bailey and his shitheaded buddies are assuming that an average tandem weighs two average solos. It DOESN'T - it weighs considerably less.
- And Bobby Fucking-Genius Bailey and his shitheaded buddies are assuming that the optimal weak link for a solo is twice what they have so meticulously "worked out" is the optimal solo weak link.
- And Bobby Fucking-Genius Bailey and his shitheaded buddies are assuming the way to achieve this optimal tandem weak link is to double the optimal "260" pound solo weak link to get 520 pounds. In reality it blows at around 200.
- Following this lead, operations like Ridgely which were smart enough to realize that when you split the load with a bridle the weak link doesn't see the full load but too stupid to realize that bridle tension goes up with apex angle believed they were towing at 1040 pounds when in fact they were towing at 348, a reality a third of the fantasy world they had fabricated for themselves - and us.
- Anybody who's done any actual TESTING knows that these schemes to "position the knot so that it's hidden from the main tension in the link and excluded altogether from the equation" are bullshit. Loop weak links installed on typical aerotow bridles break at bridle strains around the test rating of the material - regardless of where the fucking knot is "positioned".
- The first time ANY of the assholes in this industry had a clue what kind of tension a tug was pulling on a solo flight is when I took my gear up behind a 914 Dragonfly in the spring of 2007 and got 125 regular and 155 turbo.
- The ONLY statements in that drivel that aren't total crap are that:
-- most flight parks use 130 for solos; and
-- double loops are used for tandems.
- And note that the ACTUAL PURPOSE and ONLY POSSIBLE RELIABLE FUNCTION of the weak link...
Tost Flugzeuggerätebau
Weak links protect your aircraft against overloading.
...ISN'T EVEN MENTIONED OR SO MUCH AS HINTED AT.
Davis Straub - 2013/02/08 16:57:42 UTC
All the flight parks that I am aware of are quite aware of this. They tell their pilots that the point of the weak link is save the glider from overload and that they should not rely on the weaklink to save them.
Sure Davis. Whatever you say.
This, kids, is the ENTIRE HISTORY of...
Jim Rooney - 2013/02/12 18:00:27 UTC
AT isn't new. This stuff's been worked on and worked over for years and thousands upon thousands of tows. I love all these egomaniacs that jump up and decide that they're going to "fix" things, as if no one else has ever thought of this stuff?
Jim Rooney - 2013/02/13 19:09:33 UTC
It was already worked out by the time I arrived.
The reason it sticks?
Trail and error.
Every now and then someone comes along with the "new" idea of a stronger weaklink. Eventually, they scare themselves with it and wind up back with one that has a very proven track record. I mean really... no exaggeration... hundreds of thousands of tows.
Say what you will, but if you want to argue with *that* much history, well, you better have one hell of an argument... which you don't.
...how this stuff was already worked out by the time Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney arrived. An asshole in Florida made a whole bunch of idiot bullshit assumptions, put into a formula a loop of fishing line he thought would fit the bill for the fantasy world his substandard deranged little brain had concocted, and forced everybody to fly with to the exclusion of anything else for the past couple dozen years REGARDLESS of the results he was getting.
We have to gut these motherfuckers and get things back under control NOW.
