landing

[Tad Eareckson]

I have seen one foot landing where the pilot got his arm broken by hitting a non-hidden large rock (Earth)...

The third rock from the sun - the one for which missing is not an option for anyone who flies hang gliders.

Dave Hopkins is even dumber thEn I thought.

Dave Hopkins - 2011/02/01 22:15:38 UTC

I rather get a kick in the ass then in the head.

Jim Gaar - 2011/02/10 17:13:14 UTC

Easier said then done I realize.

CAL - 2011/02/10 18:20:06 UTC

i need to add to the what if in it as well, i am so cocky i never think of what i will do if the ground comes up faster then expected, till it does, then of coarse i am humbled

CAL - 2011/02/10 18:20:06 UTC

my cocky attitude makes me relax, because i am always surprised when i hit the ground harder then expected

Dave Hopkins - 2011/02/11 01:37:35 UTC

I would rather fly or flare my way out of a situation then wreck my wing.

Must be something in the water.
more keyboard wizardry.I'm damn sure I won't have much control over the outcome.[/quote]
Ditto. Best to assume one won't have ANY.
more keyboard wizardry.A prudent pilot will develop an ability to think and reason for himself.[/quote]
And...

Zack C - 2010/12/13 04:58:15 UTC

I had a very different mindset too back then and trusted the people that made my equipment. Since then I've realized (largely due to this discussion) that while I can certainly consider the advice of others, I can't trust anyone in this sport but myself (and maybe the people at Wills Wing).

Never trust anyone it the sport but himself.

Why whipstall an aircraft near the ground when you don't need to?

The Pavlovian conditioning to which one is subjected for Day One, Flight One on.

I suspect your definition of "lz" different from mine.

My minimum definition of an LZ anything containing twenty-five yards of terrain in which the wheels one is using can be rolled to a safe stop. That opens up A LOT of real estate - and a competent and responsible pilot will always have something meeting that definition in range.

[Tad Eareckson]

I FL trained at LMFP and really never gave it much thought about why landing on your wheels was not encouraged.

It...

Hang Gliding - 2004/10

Christian Thoreson

Thus wheel landings, the safest and easiest way to consistently land a hang glider (yes, I know many people will have much discussion over that comment)...
-
Christian Thoreson has been actively flying hang gliders since 1979 and has been the flight school director at Lookout Mountain Flight Park since 1990.

...was for a period.

Instead, landing upright was required as far as I know.

Yes, this is a culture that loves to make this sport as dangerous as it possibly can.

To move from their small hill to the big hill you had to demonstrate landing upright on your feet.

Do let us know when you first encounter a situation in which you actually NEED to land upright on your feet.

Think of the time saved during training if landing on wheels was the requirement.

Or even an option for the student.

I know landing upright can be beneficial if flying into a very small LZ...

The SIZE of the field has virtually nothing to do with the issue. Yeah, you can save a few yards by whipstalling the glider to a dead stop. But if the margins are that narrow you made a poor decision coming, or putting yourself in a position in which you needed to come, into that field.

...or you find yourself in a rocky creek bed.

Your training needs to focus on...

http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=3858
Landing in the Big T wash

NMERider - 2013/04/05 21:09:27 UTC

There have been a number of bad landing incidents in the wash by a variety of experienced pilots because it is a dangerous bailout, period. It is NOT the club's landing zone either. It is a bailout and when it's hot on the surface it can and will bite you in the ass.

...making sure that you never find yourself in a rocky creek bed. That's a lot better, easier, safer, more successful strategy than trying to train for what to do when you find yourself in a rocky creek bed.

- Think of your hang glider as a sailplane - not as an emergency or military parachute.
- And never put yourself in a position in which your safety is dependent upon the flawless execution of a difficult stunt.

I think knowing both are a good thing but wheel landings are much easier and safer.

If you KNOW how to foot land...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27086
Steve Pearson on landings

Steve Pearson - 2012/03/28 23:26:05 UTC

I can't control the glider in strong air with my hands at shoulder or ear height and I'd rather land on my belly with my hands on the basetube than get turned downwind.

...you'll have achieved something Steve Pearson was never able to.

I'm not saying NEVER foot land. With a little smooth breeze in your face and reduced groundspeed foot landing can be brain dead easy and as safe as carrying your glider off the field. But in light air, shifts, thermal pops, gusts, turbulence, rotor... You're gonna finish in the red - bonks; whacks; bowed, bent, broken downtubes; bruises; sprains; dislocations; tears; breaks.

If you wanna become a good pilot don't practice for landing on crappy dangerous surfaces - practice for landing in really tight fields. Low hard fast turns, tight approaches. Work your way up to them with gentle pushes on your comfort level and treat all of your LZs as postage stamps.

[Tad Eareckson]

Let go of the downtube.
Let go of the downtube.
Let go of the downtube.
Let go of the downtube.
Let go of the downtube.
Let go of the downtube.
Let go of the downtube.

Steve Wendt...

You've got to hook in. Period.
You've got to hook in. Period.
You've got to hook in. Period.
You've got to hook in. Period.
You've got to hook in. Period.
You've got to hook in. Period.
You've got to hook in. Period.

Jim Rooney...

The "purpose" of a weaklink is to increase the safety of the towing operation. PERIOD.
The "purpose" of a weaklink is to increase the safety of the towing operation. PERIOD.
The "purpose" of a weaklink is to increase the safety of the towing operation. PERIOD.
The "purpose" of a weaklink is to increase the safety of the towing operation. PERIOD.
The "purpose" of a weaklink is to increase the safety of the towing operation. PERIOD.
The "purpose" of a weaklink is to increase the safety of the towing operation. PERIOD.
The "purpose" of a weaklink is to increase the safety of the towing operation. PERIOD.

Quest Air...

ALWAYS RELEASE THE TOWLINE before there is a problem.
ALWAYS RELEASE THE TOWLINE before there is a problem.
ALWAYS RELEASE THE TOWLINE before there is a problem.
ALWAYS RELEASE THE TOWLINE before there is a problem.
ALWAYS RELEASE THE TOWLINE before there is a problem.
ALWAYS RELEASE THE TOWLINE before there is a problem.
ALWAYS RELEASE THE TOWLINE before there is a problem.

Stuff that actually works....

Tom Peghiny...

Never take your hands off the bar.

USHGA...

With each flight, demonstrates a method of establishing that the pilot is hooked in just prior to launch.

Tost Flugzeuggerätebau...

Weak links protect your aircraft against overloading.

Tom Peghiny...

Never take your hands off the bar.

[miguel]

You forgot to give me credit for the quote, "Let go of the downtube".

Color me saddened.

I find this one humorous.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27086
Steve Pearson on landings

Steve Pearson - 2012/03/28 23:26:05 UTC

I can't control the glider in strong air with my hands at shoulder or ear height and I'd rather land on my belly with my hands on the basetube than get turned downwind.

If something is on the internets it must be true.

I flew a glider suprone for a couple years, hands at about shoulder height. The glider was very controllable. Never had a problem. Never crashed or even took out a downtube.

[Tad Eareckson]

You forgot to give me credit for the quote, "Let go of the downtube".

I didn't forget. I don't bother with attributions from short times before in threads 'cause anyone with the kind of attention span that makes it worthwhile to read the threads already knows the source.

If something is on the internets it must be true.

It's true that:
- Steve made that statement
- Ljubomir Tomaskovic validated it by killing himself exactly in the manner Steve described

I flew a glider suprone for a couple years, hands at about shoulder height. The glider was very controllable. Never had a problem.

Totally different geometry, dude. Totally irrelevant.

Never crashed or even took out a downtube.

And - prior to the afternoon of 2013/02/02 - Zack Marzec never crashed or even took out a downtube in many hundreds of flights being pro toad with a Rooney Link and a pair of bent pin barrel releases.

[miguel]

You forgot to give me credit for the quote, "Let go of the downtube".

I didn't forget. I don't bother with attributions from short times before in threads 'cause anyone with the kind of attention span that makes it worthwhile to read the threads already knows the source.

If something is on the internets it must be true.

It's true that:
- Steve made that statement
- Ljubomir Tomaskovic validated it by killing himself exactly in the manner Steve described

You provided no references so it becomes internet lore.

I flew a glider suprone for a couple years, hands at about shoulder height. The glider was very controllable. Never had a problem.

Totally different geometry, dude. Totally irrelevant.

Totally irrelevant

More all knowing Tad.

Sorry d00d, your powers are slipping.

Both gliders that I flew suprone were the same gliders I previously flew prone with no changes to the rigging. I flew the same gliders when I switched back to prone. I did try the downtube extenders for a while but took them off. Launch and landings were pretty much the same as prone. Nothing like eating and drinking when flying. You can fly suprone one handed quite easily.

I know Dave Hopkins and flew with him many times when he was out here. He is good people and a good pilot.

[Tad Eareckson]

You provided no references so it becomes internet lore.

1. The internet IS a reference.

2. If you google:
"Ljubomir Tomaskovic"
Kite Strings comes up on the first page (barely).

3. The incident was (re)posted in this thread thirteen entries prior to my previous reference.

I did try the downtube extenders...

1. Suprone your shoulders/arms are AFT of your harness mains / center of mass.
2. Thus your pitch range is limited in the positive department.
3. Hence extenders extending AFT of the downtubes.
4. The problem that killed Tom Perfetti, Gerry Smith, Ljubomir Tomaskovic, and Zack Marzec was not being able to get the bar back far enough.

Nothing like eating and drinking when flying.

Especially being prone, overdressed, and airsick.

I know Dave Hopkins and flew with him many times when he was out here. He is good people...

Not necessarily relevant.

...and a good pilot.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=28290
Report about fatal accident at Quest Air Hang Gliding

Dave Hopkins - 2013/02/09 16:43:09 UTC

Here lies the double edged sword. The Aerotow weaklink is designed to break before a glider can lockout in roll.

No.

[miguel]

I did try the downtube extenders...

1. Suprone your shoulders/arms are AFT of your harness mains / center of mass.
2. Thus your pitch range is limited in the positive department.
3. Hence extenders extending AFT of the downtubes.
4. The problem that killed Tom Perfetti, Gerry Smith, Ljubomir Tomaskovic, and Zack Marzec was not being able to get the bar back far enough.

All seeing Tad? Nope, maybe it is an age thingy

I took the extenders off of my glider. They were a pain to put on and they did not have a solid feel. The feel was rubbery.

I have long arms and did not have a problem reaching the downtubes. Ability to pull in was enhanced. Ability to push out to the edge of stall was diminished but doable. Unlike your friend, I can control a glider from shoulder height or higher.

[Tad Eareckson]

Ability to pull in was enhanced.

EXACTLY. The PRECISE OPPOSITE of what happens when a proner rotates to upright and goes to the downtubes.

Ability to push out to the edge of stall was diminished but doable.

Adequate to stall back into the top at McClure at seventy miles per hour so you can work on your crash survival technique?

Unlike your friend...

He IS NOT my FRIEND. I have ZERO respect for useless motherfuckers like him who promote Steve Wendt caliber assholes and standard aerotow weak links and do NOTHING when that bullshit kills somebody.

And while...

Steve Pearson - 2012/03/28 23:26:05 UTC

I can't control the glider in strong air with my hands at shoulder or ear height and I'd rather land on my belly with my hands on the basetube than get turned downwind.

...HE can't control the glider in strong air with his hands at shoulder or ear height he's totally cool with having the readers of his owner's manuals and victim's of his dealerships come in that way and get mangled as a consequence.

...I can control a glider from shoulder height or higher.

When you're flying suprone. But you're not flying suprone. And when you're not flying suprone your control with your hands on the downtubes is "adequate".

And since the number of people flying suprone can be counted on the fingers of one hand and Steve's statement was in the context of prone maybe it would be a good idea to assume and limit the discussion to prone barring a good reason not to.

[miguel]

.......crickets chirping.......