landing

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=26397
So I broke my arm Hang Gliding.

Orion Price - 2012/06/17 04:10:22 UTC

So I broke my arm Hang Gliding.

Bullshit. You broke it stunt landing.

A video of my progress:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_17poofS6E
Broken Arm
horatio allger - 2012/06/16
Dr. Wiss putting me back together again.
dead

Tom Emery - 2012/06/17 04:20:44 UTC
San Diego

Sorry about your arm. Can you tell us how you actually broke it?

Stunt landing.

Any lessons learned?

Perfect your flare timing.

If the memory is too painful, never mind.

Nah, he's totally cool with it - and gearing up to do it again.

Orion Price - 2012/06/17 04:31:53 UTC

Nearby airport was indicating an exceptually high altitude density...

Exceptually high density altitude.

...prior to my launch.

How many planes there were trying to whipstall to stop on a dime without using their wheels?

Good flight, "chilled" around 12k and worked the range until the entire crew was on the ground and packing up.

Good DBF approach. My trim speed just above the ground was fast. When I went to flair my above ground speed was above 30 I thought.

I didn't break a single WW down tube. Just a quick snap and my arm was pointed the wrong way.

Any problem with any of the large rocks strewn all over the place?

I'm fine...

Yeah. You're FINE.

...and will fly again.

WOW! Really magnificent pair of testicles you've got there, dude.

Tom Emery - 2012/06/17 16:06:39 UTC

Ouch

Glad to hear you will fly again. Amazing scar on your arm. I am assuming all kinds of pins and rods are imbedded in there.

For over 68 thousand dollars worth of surgery? I should hope so!

What? No cast?

Casts are for fags.

Christopher LeFay - 2012/06/17 16:47:13 UTC

OP, you must be from California... Central to Northern, maybe?

Southern. Grebloville. Just look at the x-ray ferchrisake.

Orion Price - 2012/06/17 17:37:37 UTC

So-cal is where I'm from.

Big surprise.

I busted the arm Central East California. Interesting note, they don't use helicopters out there. No copter can cover the counties. So they just land airplanes on the roads and pull the mostly car accident peeps out that way.

Glad you gave someone else a chance to get some airtime that day.

Imagine the highway patrol closing the highway, A medical turbo-prop lands and takes the person to a local airport where there is an hospital nearby.

Is this a great sport or what!

Christopher LeFay - 2012/06/17 17:55:20 UTC

It was your voice in the YouTube clip- for me, it was like that weird wrong familiarity of hearing your own voice from a recording. We sound a lot alike.

Even just reading you two.

Larry Howe - 2012/06/18 04:39:33 UTC

Ibelieve you actually broke your arm hang crashing, not gliding as the gliding was pretty much over with

It's never over until you finish whipstalling the landing properly.

Matthew Hendershot - 2012/06/18 06:12:31 UTC

glad to see you're mending so quickly.

not to beat a dead horse--but...

Are you saying that you landed either upwind or nil wind, flared properly, and at trim--and that your accident was purely a matter of thin air and thus high ground speed? And that no change in your decisions or technique would have produced a better result?

What kind of wing were you flying?

The kind you need to whipstall to a dead stop on your feet at the end of every flight.

NMERider - 2012/06/18 06:24:33 UTC

http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=3275
OPs arm

Orion Price - 2012/05/20 17:58:25 UTC

...popped up during hand transition. Came down fast across the ground. a few steps, glider came over faster than i could run. small wheels dug into the ground.

OP flies a Sport 2 155 and ironically, Joey was test flying OP's new (used) 2005 T2 144 the very same day. From my observations, OP is an outstanding young pilot with great potential.

Yeah Jonathan. His testicles are absolutely HUGE. And he's off to such a great start.

There has been a rash of injuries lately from landing errors and there was one more yesterday (Saturday) where a friend of mine fractured his wrist during a bad landing and he even had my spare set of 6-1/4" wheels on his speedbar when this happened.

1. But he broke his wrist solely because he was going for a foot landing.

2. And he was landing in a well groomed primary because if he had been landing in an environment which necessitated a foot landing you'd have said so.

Many of these broken bones have occurred on gliders with wheels.

1. But NONE of them have occurred on gliders making deliberate wheel landings, right Jonathan?

2. And NONE of them WOULD HAVE occurred if the gliders HAD made deliberate wheel landings, right Jonathan?

3. 'Cept maybe one or two coming down in places you would categorize as dangerous and were examples of poor judgment to begin with, right Jonathan?

IMHO...

Yes, Jonathan, in your humble OPINION.

Wheels are over-rated...

If people are using them as backups for their feet they can expect to get results not too dissimilar from the ones assholes who use weak links as backups for their releases get.

...and in a few cases may make the situation worse than not having wheels.

Oh, they MAY? Name one.

Matthew Hendershot - 2012/06/18 06:51:31 UTC
Arroyo Grande, California

Ah. Got it, Thanks for the info.

Sounds like transition to DTs (early) with too much pitch pressure, pop up bleeds energy, come back down with no more energy, but plenty of forward momentum--ouch!

So how might his day have ended if he had just stayed on the fuckin' basetube?

Just curious because of the lack of details in the video/post.

How much more of this bullshit do you really need to hear?

Jim Rooney - 2011/06/12 13:57:58 UTC

Most common HG injury... spiral fracture of the humerus.

If people try to land gliders upright with their hands on the downtubes...

Gil Dodgen - 1995/01

All of this reminds me of a comment Mike Meier made when he was learning to fly sailplanes. He mentioned how easy it was to land a sailplane (with spoilers for glide-path control and wheels), and then said, "If other aircraft were as difficult to land as hang gliders no one would fly them."

...you're gonna hear about a lot of broken arms. If people keep doing the same thing over and over and over again we can expect they're gonna get similar results.

Christopher LeFay - 2012/06/18 06:57:13 UTC

Wheels do what they do, not more. Non-pneumatic wheels do even less. Use them when you must...

Yeah Christopher... Don't EVER consider using them as...

Christian Thoreson - 2004/10

Thus wheel landings, the safest and easiest way to consistently land a hang glider...

...a primary option.

...and don't plan on them saving the day.

No. That's STRICTLY a function of flare timing. So get your ass to a training hill and stay there until you've got it perfected.

If your kid couldn't pedal a big wheel across where you're coming down, then you're likely best off acting as though you don't have them.

How hard is it to make sure you always come down in field in which your kid could pedal a Big Wheel?

NMERider - 2012/06/18 14:11:17 UTC

Just curious because of the lack of details in the video/post.

That's OP's MO.

Yeah, he's not really into details. They tend to get in the way of the points he tries to make.

Tim May - 2012/06/18 17:46:25 UTC
Boston

glad you are fine again. its a scare feeling to break something

its a scare feeling to see MDs writing like that.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=28977
XC 42mi Mingus to Ash Fork AZ - May 4, 2013

Greg Porter - 2013/05/06 04:46:20 UTC

My friend Davis...

Fuck you.

...Chappins...

Oops. Sorry.

...talked me in to going up to Mingus even though the conditions looked questionable. THANKS DAVIS! The day turned out great, with a couple of gotchas.

My lower harness zipper broke at launch so it was breezy from the nether-regions down to my feet. Had to stay tense in the harness since I had no support for the knees. That was fun for three hours. Feeling it today!

Launched at 11:15 right after Davis.

And, per the Mingus custom, skipping the hook-in check. But, what the hell, you've got that nice plaque...



...up there. So what's the worst that could happen?

Ridge lift with thermals coming through. Up and down for an hour waiting for the day to heat up and the tops to hit 12K. We finally headed over the back and to the cement plant. A lot of turbulence through the whole flight - a real workout.

Just after the cement plant the day turned on as Davis chased a cumi to the west of the highway that paid off. Took him on a smooth elevator that he left I think at about 13K - due to frozen hands. I stuck to the highway and paid the sinking price.

At about 8500 I hit a really turbulent thermal that took me to 14K and ensured an easy glide to Ash Fork. Davis radioed that his hands were frozen and suggested we land in Ash Fork. I was glad because my feet felt like they were solid ice by then as well (the temp forecast at 14K was 16 degrees - it was every bit of that!).

We had to core sink to get down. I was at 14K over Ash Fork and Davis was about the same over toward Williams. We both then came upwind to land in a field 2.8 miles south of Ash Fork. A real shame to land though since cloudbase was at 19 or 20k and we had a 25 mph tail wind while heading North. A cloud street was forming for the 40 miles to the Grand Canyon. Landed at three hours and fifteen minutes and I thought for sure I had frostbite in my toes but got lucky and no damage. (Davis' fingers were still bugging him at dinner in Chino Valley).

I think I have my battery life issues now worked out on the GoPro wing camera. This was the first flight with a hard-wired remote switch that runs down in the inside of a downtube (the old configuration wireless remote ate battery life on the wrist unit and on the camera).

I also now have a spare battery continually charging the camera through a charging cable that runs inside the cross bar and out to the camera.

Really great the way we've evolved to the point such that our cameras are built into our gliders. I wonder how long it'll take to do something similar for our release systems.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BY-wgbeHD8E

NMERider - 2013/05/06 05:37:59 UTC

Good flight Greg! Glad you worked out the camera battery life issue.

But...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=13745
Good News vs Sad News

NMERider - 2009/10/01 22:31:04 UTC

IIRC - Tad has already worn out his welcome on the Oz Report over his AT release mechanism, and so it seems he has come here to preach his gospel of safety according to Tad. The prize of course will either be delivered by the HMS Beagle or can be found on the Gallapagos Islands.

...you don't give a flying fuck that I worked out the release and weak link issues.

I'd like to offer a suggestion for anyone interested in landing in surface winds like this. Do not transition either hand between a hundred feet and until both feet are firmly on the ground.

How 'bout when the surface winds aren't like that and until both wheels are on the ground - and stopped?

I suggest coming in with either one or both hands on the control bar. Make your hand transition(s) after you are established on the ground. There is a very high risk of a ground loop, being turtled, or stalling and slamming in downwind due to any error when making the transition. Having both hands on the downtubes also risks getting overpowered by a gust then stalling with consequences.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=25536
Whoops! Snapped another tip wand :-O

NMERider - 2012/03/14 15:43:09 UTC

I like what Steve Pearson does when he comes in and may adapt something like that.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27086
Steve Pearson on landings

Steve Pearson - 2012/03/28 23:26:05 UTC

I can't control the glider in strong air with my hands at shoulder or ear height and I'd rather land on my belly with my hands on the basetube than get turned downwind.

It's easy and it's effective.

Christian Thoreson - 2004/10

Thus wheel landings, the safest and easiest way to consistently land a hang glider...

Greg Porter - 2013/05/06 06:10:56 UTC

Jonathan, Thanks for the reply and the good tips!

[miguel]

Just as there are babies who are content to crawl, and never to walk, there are pilots who are content to land on wheels and never on their feet.

Life is what you make of it.

[Tad Eareckson]

Charles Lindbergh, Mitsuo Fuchida, Minoru Genda, Franz Stigler, Quentin Aanenson, Chuck Yeager, Yuri Gagarin were all content to land on wheels and never on their feet. Doug Prather seems pretty OK with it as well.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=32106
Finally we get to fly in the good Florida air again

Davis Straub - 2013/05/10 11:50:51 UTC

Using my bare feet for very positive pitch control on landing:

http://vimeo.com/65861832

http://vimeo.com/65861832
Using the feet to pull in for a landing

Davis Straub - 2013/05/09 19:18 UTC

Two landings at Quest Air on a Wills Wing T2C 144 on May 9th, 2013. I use my bare feet on the control bar to allow me to pull in hard and get the glider down on the deck where fewer bad things can happen. Also keeps the speed up for going through thee wind gradient. Gets me down quickly for smaller fields.

When was the last time you landed in a "smaller field", Davis?

Jim Rooney - 2013/05/11 11:11:19 UTC

Hahaha, I'm more interested in the Monkey Bar landing technique in the video!

Hahaha, the limits of your interests know no bounds.

That's freaking awesome man.

Yeah that was ABSOLUTELY AMAZING!!! (And now it's DAVIS's turn to jerk YOU off.)

Speed on final is such a critical component to a good landing. This is such a neat (and effective) way to get it.

And I'm sure that this technique will revolutionize hang gliding landings in general and XC landings in particular.

Davis Straub - 2013/05/11 11:54:34 UTC

I love it.

You are absolutely right about the fact...

And just when has Jimmy not been absolutely right about ANY facts?

...that it is getting the speed up by pulling in with the feet that makes the final landing so much easier.

So much easier than THIS?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhE-dEcWM2A


Let's have a contest to see who can get the most speed on final:
- you standing with your feet on the basetube; or
- anyone else prone with his hands on the basetube.

Still getting the flare timing down is required whether you get yourself down like this or not.

1. No shit.
2. So when control authority is most critical you're right back to where your configuration most sucks.
3. What if you just stayed prone with your hands on the basetube and rolled it in?

I have been able to flare with my feet pushing out on the base tube.

No shit. We used to give little kids in the LZ pony rides by letting them stand in the control frame and putting a couple of runners on the sidewires. The little kids could do that too.

With the wheels on now I could land this way.

1. No shit.

2. ANYONE can land that way WITHOUT wheels.

3. So what does that bullshit do for you that THESE flavors of landings:

http://vimeo.com/36062225


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2Gd2kcyOes

http://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7094/13952342741_f71f343877_o.png


http://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7151/13952329131_03e535bc8b_o.png

don't?

Ron Gleason - 2013/05/11 13:05:20 UTC

monkey bar ...

Davis, myself and couple of others (Russell Brown?) used this technique when flying rigids during the 2002-2006 time frame. It works great and really allows a rigid wing pilot to transition early and really control the glide slope.

I am surprised that more folks do not utilize this.

1. If it works so great then why didn't you and a couple of others (Russell Brown?) use this technique when flying rigids during the 2002-2013 time frame?

2. So why do you NEED to transition - early or AT ALL?

3. Yeah, people who stay prone and on the downtubes have such HUGE issues controlling glideslope.

4. I'm surprised that more folk do not utilize THIS:

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=26854
Skids vs wheels

Andrew Stakhov - 2012/08/11 13:52:35 UTC

So I just came back from flying in Austria (awesome place btw). Stark difference I noticed is a large chunk of pilots choose to fly with skids instead of wheels. Conversations I had with pilots they say they actually work better in certain situations as they don't get plugged up like smaller wheels. Even larger heavier Atosses were all flying with skids. I was curious why they consistently chose to land on skids on those expensive machines and they were saying that it's just not worth the risk of a mistimed flare or wing hitting the ground... And those are all carbon frames etc.

Fourteen weeks ago today Davis. Glad you Quest serial killers have so much free time to play around with useless crap like this.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=29126
Put big wheels on a Sport 2??

Channing Kilgore - 2013/05/28 03:44:53 UTC
Whitwell

anyone know of a way to put big wheels (training wheels even!) on a Sport 2? i think wheels are always a good idea to have on a glider...the wheels on the sport 2 are ok but bigger wheels are better...ain't no shame in saving downtubes!

You'll save even more downtubes if you deliberately land on the wheels.

2013/05/28 04:25:50 UTC - 3 thumbs up - Helix

Bit late for you, isn't it Helix?

NMERider - 2013/05/28 04:08:54 UTC

Wills Wing sells a 1-1/8 inch round control bar with a VG cleat and corner brackets that adapt to the Litestream downtubes. They also sell special machined aluminum hubs that fit the 8 inch Finsterwalder pneumatic wheels.

The alternative is the Ravensports wheels.

The WW setup may total over $500 but it can save you a lot more than a $105 downtube.

http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=3398
A broken humerus, guess the cost.

Orion Price - 2012/07/16 06:39:18 UTC

It was almost 70k. 68 and change. Just for the surgery.

And in all honesty, I love landing on the 8 inch Finsterwalder wheels. It's just plain fun.

Beats the hell out of THIS:

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=26847
Landing Out

NMERider - 2012/08/10 17:09:10 UTC

Be glad you don't fly XC where I do. It really sucks here in the LA Basin and I'm tired of all the hazards.

doesn't it, Jonathan?

Among other things you will need:

40S-2051 - 228.00 - LITESTREAM ROUND SPEEDBAR KIT
40F-1368 - 108.00 - SPEEDBAR ROUND-LITESTR 65/68VG (Sport 2 155, 175)
70M-1027 - 030.00 - BUSHING WW-FINSTER W/ VG HOLE (I suggest getting a set for each side. It's $30/set)
70M-1010 - 042.00 - WHEEL PNEUM FINSTR 200 X 50MM (2 required)

2013/05/28 04:25:36 UTC - 3 thumbs up - Helix

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=29120
Straighten curved downtube

Janica Lee - 2013/05/27 01:00:45 UTC
California

Fledgling Falcon 3 reaching puberty and developed a wee curve in the left downtube.
Came in for landing, about to flare...

Why? You've been a Hang Two since 2012/12/30. Where were you landing that was so dangerous as to necessitate a standup landing?

...then a gust popped me up.

Maybe it would've been a good idea to have just kept flying the fuckin' glider until it stopped.

Pulled in on instinct...

1. Good instinct.
2. With your hands on the downtubes how much pull-in range did you have in reserve after you pulled in as much as you wanted?

...then got nervous and flared too early before all gust energy bled off, resulting in a mega-whack.

Then got nervous about not being able to stop on your feet and prioritized that over landing the fuckin' glider and, consequently, crashed the fuckin' glider on its nose and damaged it and put yourself at substantial risk of serious injury.

No frosting or kinking. Curvature matches belly of a three-month pregnant lady.
Any/all advice on how to straighten her out welcomed.
Thank you for your time in advance.

1. Take the wheels - which you weren't using anyway - off.
2. Set the glider up without the battens (unless you're at a flying site) and tension it.
3. Sight down the length of the tube to determine the centerpoint of the bend.
4. Put both hands together at the centerpoint and use increasingly vigorous straight-arm thrusts to bring it back.
5. Check your progress frequently and take care not to overcorrect the bend.

Lafe Williams - 2013/05/27 01:44:42 UTC
Tamworth, New South Wales

Light bends can be gently removed with a fork in tree or levered under tyre of car (on grass, not bitumen or hard surface) taking care not to damage the ends.

I never needed to go through anything that elaborate and I straightened downtubes literally hundreds of times.

NB: I think some bends are better snapped (thus removing temptation to be used again) especially if flying in anything but laminar conditions.

Just my opinion.

Bullshit.

- When a downtube is seriously compromised it's obvious.

- Zillions of assholes such as myself have straightened downtubes hundreds of zillions of times over the decades and reports of in flight failure are virtually nonexistent.

Windpilot - 2013/05/27 02:34:21 UTC
Alaska

Don't do it. Just buy a new one, they are cheap.
Stay safe.

Right.

- Never do a preflight sidewire load test because you might damage the wires.

- Never do a hook-in check within two seconds of launch because that will give you a false sense of security.

- Always fly with Industry Standard releases with long track records.

- Always use a Rooney Link:

-- as an instant hands free release for when your Industry Standard releases stay true to their long track records

-- to break before you can get into too much trouble if you fail to maintain the correct tow position (centered, with the wheels of the tug on the horizon)

-- to break at the worst possible time, when the glider is climbing hard in a near stall situation, so that you can't get into an even worse worst possible time

- Keep foot landing because you need to constantly practice for that inevitable day when you'll need to stop on a dime in a narrow dry riverbed with large rocks strewn all over the place while things are cooking off

Janica Lee - 2013/05/27 02:45:12 UTC

sigh
That seems to be the consensus.

That's not even a consensus of the assholes Jack permits as cult members.

Will start a wind chime. Always wanted one (careful what you wish for).

Thank you Lafe + Windpilot for the advice. Wishing you well ~

Save it.

Mark Selner - 2013/05/27 02:45:25 UTC
Apple Valley

i seen people do small pushes on the tube

Yes.

Red Howard - 2013/05/27 02:45:41 UTC

Helix,

The classic fix for a gently curved downtube is to cover a car tire with a towel, and draw the tube (like the bow of a violin) repeatedly across the tire. Two people are needed, and either one should be willing to release their pressure, if the other person over-does it at the other end. At each end of the bend of the tube, with the tube ends curving upward, each person presses down while pulling or pushing the tube across the tire. An inflated tire and rim can be used, off the vehicle (without the towel), allowing the tire to roll between the people for the length of the bend in the tube. A wide tire/rim is easier to manage than a narrow tire, if it is not on a vehicle.

No matter what technique is used for straightening the tube, check your progress often as you work. When you can point the tube like a telescope at a bright sky (not the Sun), and see the bright circle of light centered in the far end, then the tube is straight. Sighting through the tube in this manner will show any remaining bend in the tube. Badly curved tubes may acquire an S-shape when straightened, because somebody pressed too hard, or pressed too far from the bend. I do not recommend attempting to straighten badly curved tubing, if the tube becomes S-curved during this process. If that happens, it is best to replace the tube.

Do not be surprised if tubes that appear to be straight actually show as being bent, in the "telescope sighting" test. Always check the other downtube, as well.

If they appear to be straight from the outside they're plenty straight enough. Even if they appear to be - and are - a bit off it's nothing to lose sleep over.

mrcc - 2013/05/27 02:46:21 UTC
Auckland

A new DT is the cheapest insurance you can buy.

Bullshit. The cheapest insurance you can buy for a:
- preflight is a foot in the middle of a sidewire and a seventy-five pound upward push of your hands on the leading edge above it
- foot launch is a several inch lift of the glider until you feel your leg loops pulling within two seconds of commitment
- tow launch is a dolly and a few centimeters of 250 pound fishing line
- landing is a good pair of wheels and a pair of hands on the basetube until the fuckin' glider's stopped rolling

It leaves very little doubt on its integrity.

She's got WAY better things...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJV_t4L92pE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wL00UefQqZA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYe3YmdIQTM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaTu5Y4WBdY

18-3704


...to worry about.

Janica Lee - 2013/05/27 04:33:03 UTC

The classic fix for a gently curved downtube is to cover a car tire with a towel, and draw the tube (like the bow of a violin) repeatedly across the tire...

Your care and generous sharing of wisdom is much much appreciated, red ~ Will add this arrow to my quiver...

Careful how you throw around that "wisdom" word.

...and practice the technique tomorrow and forego eating out for a few meals and purchase a spare downtube.

You should have a spare downtube ANYWAY.

A new DT is the cheapest insurance you can buy.

Sigh. You're right and good incentive to remember lessons learned.

What lessons have you learned?

Grazie, red + mrcc.

P.S. Selner - Heard you rescued someone from a car wreck. Kudos to you for saving a life.

This is The Jack Show. When someone saves a life you're supposed to call him a faggot, give him a "Sink This!" rating, and click the "Bury this topic" button - even if it's your topic.

Leggy - 2013/05/27 18:10:14 UTC
Germany

I remember when I showed my new (used) glider my instructor and told him that I even have two spare downtubes but one is bent.
He told me to show him the tubes, took the slightly bent one, straightened it by bending it carefully, gave it back to me and sayd: Nothing wrong with them.

Since this day I'm not so concerned about little bents in round downtubes anymore.

But I am very talented in taking good care of the tubes... Smashed my arm without bending anything at my glider.

I wonder how.

Devin Wagner - 2013/05/28 04:34:54 UTC

some down tubes are very soft. i use a 2X4 and a rubber hammer and slowly ding it back

DING it back?!?!?! Nah, hard to see a problem with that approach.

Janica Lee - 2013/05/28 05:18:19 UTC

All the time spent in dive bars playing pool payed off. Same technique used to sight down pool cues to pick the straightest one applied here and red's advice to look-through-tube-to-the-sky helped too.

Buddy had a four inch loop of webbing bolted to the end of his workbench. Threaded the tube through the loop up to the bendy bits and gently unbent the bends.
Using re-straightened tube as emergency backup though and have a new tube in the control frame now.

Use the new tube as the back up. That way if you trash a downtube in the future there's a slightly better than fifty/fifty chance it'll be the straightened one. And if you keep insisting on foot landings it shouldn't take to long to permanently retire it.

Thank you every one of you for the feedback and advice.

Warmly,
Janica

Janica Lee - 2013/05/28 05:44:24 UTC

Smashed my arm without bending anything at my glider.

Ouch! Hope it wasn't a spiral fracture.
Good friend got one of those...

As a consequence of attempting a totally unnecessary foot landing.

...which convinced him to quit flying and take up knitting.

Great job growing the sport of hang gliding, USHGA.

He's very good at knitting now and gifted me a beautiful hat.

That's also a good strategy for not landing in a narrow dry riverbed with large rocks strewn all over the place.

Rodger Hoyt - 2013/05/28 07:19:57 UTC

In the "good old days" you can't believe the S-bent downtubes we regularly flew with. We'd straighten them several times a season. In 35 years of reading accident reports I never heard of one failing in flight.

Precisely.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBYH1LomlLc


Granted, that's a topless and thus majorly beefed up inside the wing, but still...

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=29126
Put big wheels on a Sport 2??

Guest - 2013/05/28 11:59:11 UTC

How does the cost of these wheels compare to the cost of a couple of sessions on the training hill to improve your landing skills?

Or he could just go to one of Ryan's landing clinics...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=27217
Bad Launch!

NMERider - 2012/09/25 07:01:39 UTC
Why would CSS want that when his last landing clinic resulted in a broken arm to one of his students?

...and perfect them.

Perhaps the S2 is not the best glider for you right now?

Yeah, anybody interested in installing a really functional pair of wheels on ANY glider really has no business flying it.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=29126
Put big wheels on a Sport 2??

2013/05/28 14:13:05 UTC - Sink This! -- NMERider

I'm not a fan of those "Rate this post" buttons but that one was well placed.

Channing Kilgore - 2013/05/28 14:25:44 UTC

Landings are fairly good..fields can always get twitchy, harness may have unexpected issues, or anything may call for wheels...

Like, for example, the safest possible landing.

for some its an image issue of flying without wheels...

Copy that, OP? (How are those magnificent testicles of yours doing these days?)

not so for me...more options means more safety...wind resistance is negligible esp since im flying only for fun..but thanx for the feedback from everyone...

Everyone except "Guest" anyway.

side story* mans life was saved at hensons bec he had wheels...he tripped on launch and rolled off the ramp and flew away..lucky yes..but if he had no wheels hed been gone for sure

Chris Starbuck has already tripped before he starts moving on that ramp. Eliminates a whole shitload of possibilities for things going wrong - kinda like a dolly or platform launch.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=29126
Put big wheels on a Sport 2??

NMERider - 2013/05/28 14:59:55 UTC

There is nothing wrong with wheels on any level of glider.

There's something very considerably wrong with ANY fixed wing aircraft that has nothing to allow it to roll, slide, skim, or skid on the surface on a landing. Hell, even helicopters have skids at a minimum.

Lots of guys on topless wings fly with wheels.

And lotsa guys who haven't flown with wheels ain't around in the sport no more. And a few of those ain't around no more - period.

There may be some hazards and drawbacks as discussed over the past years but wheels are removable. In Europe the streamlined skids:
http://www.fluggeraete-zubehoer.com/html/cfk-trapez.htm
are very popular which makes a good compromise IMHO.

1. If they they function better in some environments than wheels - and they do - I wouldn't call them a compromise.
2. Why the fuck do we always hafta lag fifteen or twenty years behind Europe?

Andrew Stakhov - 2013/05/28 16:22:00 UTC
Toronto

Speaking of skids, do you know if one can get skids with threads for non-atos basebars. If you don't know what I'm talking about, here's the link:
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=20293
Tank-tread skids for ATOS control bar