landing

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=29129
Safety Note; Don't let this hapen to You.

Bob Grant - 2013/05/28 18:30:01 UTC

Safety Note; Don't let this hapen to You.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KASRpELx_rM
Hang Glider Whack Incident - Crash - Don't Do This:
cdnskydog - 2013/05/27
dead

As long as people insist on going to the downtubes and flushing the vast majority of their control authority down the toilet as they approach the surface that - and much worse - is gonna happen to them.

A friend and long time pilot...

"PILOT"? Bit of a stretch, donchya think?

...had a bad whack on Saturday and sustained no injuries.

Injuries from this type of whack are very common and often causes serious injuries so please take note in this video. A sudden wind change can often be the culprit.

1. Yeah. Let's look at the windsock and streamers at 0:19 and talk about sudden wind changes.

2. But that's not how YOU land is it, Bob? You land like THIS:

7:15
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72SJu09S-Y0

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7369/13962618245_163eb65caa_o.png


http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2920/13939515566_f9b68a2595_o.png

And I'll bet you have a lot fewer problems with "sudden wind changes".

J ball - 2013/05/28 18:49:17 UTC

Looks more like a case of mushing it in from fifty feet up.

Yeah, but that's not what did him in. He doesn't REALLY fuck himself over until maybe three seconds prior to impact.

His hands where at his ears with no pull in through his whole approach.

Goddam right.

Walt Conklin - 2013/05/28 18:52:42 UTC

Thanks for the reminder Bob. Air speed and full flare timing are essential.

Yes and No. He's landing on the Happy Acres putting green, ferchrisake. What the fuck does he need flare timing for?

Without one, you won't have the other.

You only NEED the first one.

Good thing is, he knew to let go of the DT's.

Yeah, he's a great crasher, alright. With some more practice like that there'd be a good chance of him beating Dave Hopkins' old record of slamming back into McClure at seventy miles per hour and walking away.

NMERider - 2013/05/28 20:25:20 UTC

J ball - 2013/05/28 18:49:17 UTC

Looks more like a case of mushing it in from fifty feet up.
His hands where at his ears with no pull in through his whole approach.

This is precisely was Davis was complaining about on this thread:

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26379
Landings

Yeah, ya really gotta admire Davis's tireless dedication to improving hang gliding safety for all of us. By the way... What did you think of his keen analysis of the Zack Marzec fatality?

And how did you like the way Bob...

NMERider

I voted for Bob after spending a very enjoyable hour on the telephone with him a few months ago. My impression of Bob is that he is a level headed and enthusiastic supporter of both hang gliding and paragliding, and above all: SAFETY.

...Kuczewski brought his Navier-Stokes equations to bear whenever things started getting bogged down?

The pilot could have flared at two feet AGL...

Doesn't flaring at two feet MSL usually work a lot better?

...and would have parachuted down in a Zen-style landing.

That would've been really beautiful.

His wings were level so there was no issue with a dropped wing and ground-loop whack.

AND he's got a FIN!!! So if he's ever foolish enough to stray from the edges of the Cone of Safety he shouldn't be significantly disadvantaged by that idiot fucking Quallaby Release lever - 0:59 - velcroed to the bottom of his starboard downtube - that nobody's talking about because it's Industry Standard equipment.

And it's a no brainer that he's got a Marzec Link on his two point bridle to meet his expectation of break as early as possible in lockout situations but being strong and reliable enough to avoid frequent breaks from turbulence.

And he's got a polypro bridle to provide shock absorption so it won't act somewhat like an impact wrench on the weak link the way one of those Spectra bridles does.

So now we know beyond any reasonable doubt where this asshole...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=26302
HIGHER EDUCATION ?

NMERider - 2012/06/06 03:25:09 UTC

You are being much too complimentary IMHO. I got so nauseated reading it I had to take a breather. Do you mean to tell me they wrote an article that wasn't insipid and self-congratulatory to the extreme? I've found their entire series on aerotowing to come off rather poorly to say the least. A sad waste of such exalted and highly qualified medical professionals. How do I know this? Well they won't stop patting each other on the back about how great they both are. Pardon me while I puke.

...is "flying".

Thanks to Bob for posting this reminder not to be a lazy or complacent lander.

Yep. Got me convinced not to do my approaches and landings at two miles an hour over stall speed.

Go to 0:12. Look familiar?

http://www.flyatos.com/bill_landing.jpg


Not a great configuration for responding to irregularities and surprises - as Bill Vogel would be able to tell if he were still around.

redtail - 2013/05/28 22:35:26 UTC

Were those wheels?

Yes. But lotsa times when you elect not to use them they never come into play.

Gradients are a finicky beast...

1. Not really. They tend to be pretty predictable.

2. Why are we discussing gradients and sudden wind changes when the field is flat as a pancake and wide open, the wind's a smooth and steady five miles per hour, and the crash is ENTIRELY self inflicted.

...can eat your lunch real quick.

I repeat: ENTIRELY self inflicted.

Looks like he came through the gradient rather casually.

WHAT "gradient"?

This is a good example of how it can put you "behind the curve" Quick!

He CREATED the curve.

Glad he's OK.

Yeah. Whoopee. I always breathe a huge sigh of relief whenever another 130 pound Greenspotter cheats death and sticks around as a fine example for the up and coming.

Some don't walk away from this type of hit.

And many have done absolutely nothing to deserve to walk away. And all I've gotta do is look at the equipment this asshole is using to know that he's safely within that category.

Not a good way to see the stars

There's always tomorrow.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=29129
Safety Note; Don't let this hapen to You.

Andy Long - 2013/05/28 23:59:51 UTC

Hey, how come the video is suddenly private? That's no fun.

EVERYBODY needs to download gems like these the INSTANT they stumble across them.

Bob Grant - 2013/05/29 00:08:39 UTC

Sorry Andy:
The pilot was taking to much flack from some of the perfect pilots who never make mistakes.
Best wishes Bob

Aw... Chris takes too much flak for bonking a landing and bending a downtube and needs to scurry for cover behind your skirt after six and a half hours of torment.

Guess what, Bob...

Yours Truly gets attacked by Bob Kuczewski and his favorite Bob Show pigfucker as an unrepentant child molester about five thousand times week after week and month after month - and I'm still here and cutting those motherfuckers to shreds at every opportunity. (Although, granted, Sam killing Terry a year ago made my job a lot easier and it a lot tougher for those assholes to keep shooting their mouths off.)

Paul Hurless - 2013/05/29 00:18:48 UTC

Too many pilots giving scolding comments????
The video showed a pilot who made some very beginner-like mistakes and a bad landing resulted because of that. Pointing that out is not scolding, it's showing a concern for the pilot.
No matter how experienced a pilot is, a moment of complacency can be very detrimental and that was clearly demonstrated in the video.
And really, did you expect no one to point out the cause of that whack when you posted the video?

Gawd. I'm finding myself mostly on the same page with Paul Hurless.

Andy Long - 2013/05/29 00:33:45 UTC

Agreed.

The issue wasn't complicated at all. The pilot came in way too slow, slowly pushed out more as he came down through the gradient and when he should have flared hard to save it, didn't flare at all. At ALL!

Mushing down through the gradient + no flare = whack. It's as simple as that.

You forgot being upright on the downtubes and going for a foot landing when there was ABSOLUTELY NO NEED for any of that bullshit.

And to top it all off, did you guys see the windsock and streamers in the video? There was a nice wind too on the ground when he landed.

Yes. I definitely DID notice that.

Sorry, but the pilot deserves some advice if he's going to land like that.

This was NOT just the usual garden variety mistimed flare. And if this guy were an airline pilot screwing all those pooches to comparable degrees the flight could've ended in a fireball.

Bob Grant - 2013/05/29 00:38:47 UTC

Mistake

Hi Paul and Others:
The pilot knew immediately after whacking what he had done wrong...

Shoulda known twelve seconds before impact what he was doing wrong.

...and was extremely embarrassed as any of us would be.

Any of us who had done that.

This pilot has flown actively for 38 years and is a excellent conservative pilot.

1. He's flying at Cloud 9.

2. Tracy and Lisa Tilletti have been stuffing the magazine full of total crap at every opportunity and within five days of Zack Marzec blowing up in everyone's face and revealing the Cone of Safety and Industry Standard weak link and towing equipment for the bullshit that it is they pull all of the equipment specifications out of the SOPs.

3. Two possibilities:
- He's a total fucking moron and doesn't see anything wrong with anything.
- He knows the score but is too much of an irresponsible and selfish sleazeball to speak up about anything.

4. Neither one of those options lends itself very well to the adjective of "excellent".

5. If he's so fucking "excellent" then why do you keep referring to him as "this pilot" and "the pilot"? He doesn't have a name?

His only other bent downtube was 37 years ago so he has done very well.

I think I've killed 57 of them, totaled a glider, and done a bunch of serious damage in between - along with some serious damage to myself. But I wouldn't have crashed the glider in the manner Chris did.

This can happen to anyone of us...

No.

- But I've done tons of stupid shit with astronomically worse actual and potential consequences - including failing to clear a turn and damn near causing a midair.

- But if that had been recorded on video I'd have put it up with my name on it, an apology, and a promise that that would've been the last time I'd ever fail to clear a turn.

- I'd have taken some heat for a while but, hey, this is hang gliding. And you never hafta wait very long before some asshole:

-- fails to hook himself into a tandem glider and dives his passenger into the powerlines

-- fails to hook his passenger into a tandem glider, drops her a thousand feet, and swallows the camera's memory card

-- makes a good decision in the interest of the safety of the glider oscillating on the back end of the towline

-- hauls somebody up on a Rooney Link to very clearly provide protection from the high angle of attack he's gonna experience at 150 feet when he hits the monster thermal the tug's just encountered

...and has happened to me all to often until I started using wheels and landing on them for the past ten years.

Oh.
- So this has happened to you all too often until you started using wheels and landing on them.
- So how come Chris wasn't landing on his wheels?

I still have to stand up land in rough fields...

Do you need to land in rough fields?

...and do practice stand up landings occasionally.

I dunno...
- You were fucking up landings the way Chris did "all to(o) often" when ALL of your landings were practice stand-ups.
- But now you're gonna be so much better at standup landings that this won't happen to you all too often with hardly any practice.

I'm having just a wee bit of trouble following the arithmetic/logic here. Maybe you could help me out.

From where I'm sitting it seems that the fewer standup landings you do the fewer times your gonna risk crashing the glider and/or hurting yourself. So what I would do is say fuck practice and just do standup landings when/if needed.

You all be careful as a sudden down draft or wind change can get you even if you always land well.

But there's no fuckin' way a sudden downdraft or wind change can get you anywhere nearly as badly if you're...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27086
Steve Pearson on landings

Steve Pearson - 2012/03/28 23:26:05 UTC

I can't control the glider in strong air with my hands at shoulder or ear height and I'd rather land on my belly with my hands on the basetube than get turned downwind.

...landing on the wheels or bellying in and maintaining optimal control of the glider until it's down and stopped - right Bob?

Best wishes, Bob

Put the fuckin' video back up, Bob.

- You put it up with the intention of...

Injuries from this type of whack are very common and often causes serious injuries so please take note in this video.

...preventing someone from getting seriously fucked up.

- You pulled it down 'cause some sleazy little crybaby...

Last edited by Bob Grant on 2013/05/29 00:00:45 UTC; edited 1 time in total

Had to remove the video as there are to many perfect pilots giving scolding comments.
Most of us make mistakes but some never do I guess.

...cared more about the flak he was taking than he did about helping prevent somebody breaking an arm or neck.

Do the fuckin' math and stun me by doing the right thing.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=29126
Put big wheels on a Sport 2??

Guest - 2013/05/28 23:23:13 UTC

I agree that wheels are a great idea on any glider, but I question the need for "big' wheels on a Sport 2.

Lotsa people do - until they need big wheels on a Sport 2.

If you're good enough to guarantee that you can nail one hundred percent of your standup landings regardless of what's going on you don't need wheels.

But bear in mind that the people who fly enough to get good enough to guarantee that they can nail one hundred percent of their standup landings regardless of what's going on damn near always end up with dislocated shoulders and/or broken arms.

The bigger the wheels the safer they are and the better you're gonna survive hostile terrain. But there are weight and drag penalties. So maybe it's a good idea to use smaller wheels and limit your landings to friendly terrain.

Paul Hurless - 2013/05/28 23:37:15 UTC

Wanting them is not the same things as needing them. Don't be so quick to judge.

I need them, Paul. I'm never gonna have the landing skills of a Davis Straub and I need to figure out a way to keep from having as much shoulder surgery as he's had.

Likewise I'm never gonna have the fantastic intellect, discipline, and memory of a Davis Straub...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18695
How could this accident happen?

Davis Straub - 2010/01/28 06:10:17 UTC

I have tried to launch unhooked on aerotow and scooter tow.

So I'm always gonna hafta be burdened with a hook-in check within two seconds of every launch.

Big wheels=training wheels. Wheels=smart&safe.

DO let us know when you've completed your training. Mine's taken decades and I can't even begin to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

Guest - 2013/05/29 00:12:35 UTC

I guess it's not clear to me what was meant by "big wheels".

Who gives a rat's ass?

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3173
somewhat predictable accident at Highland

Allen Sparks - 2008/04/19 01:38:55 UTC

A week ago, a new pilot to the area muffed an approach and transition to the uprights and ended up pounding in (without wheels) .. the noseplate nailed him squarely in the back of the helmet, but fortunately, without injury. I really doubt that wheels would have made any difference, unless they were monster twelve inch pneumatics.

If you fly for fifteen years with twelve instead of eight inch pneumatics and they save you one broken neck that the eight inchers wouldn't have they - along with the weight and drag penalties - were worth it.

Bob Grant just posted...

...and took down...

...a whack video where wheels did nothing to save a pricey downtube. Nor did they prevent an ugly crash of nose into dirt and pilot into keel.

And the "pilot" didn't do shit to save a pricey downtube and prevent an ugly crash which put the nose into the dirt and himself into the keel. And the "pilot" didn't give the wheels the chance to do the job.

I'd be thinking of a complete sail off inspection if that were my glider.

Rubbish. The glider - minus a downtube - is fine.

That pilot should have either flared properly...

Every pilot should flare properly. The problem is that virtually none of them are capable of doing it consistently enough to be worth it in the medium to long runs.

...or rolled in on those cool black chrome hubcapped wheels he was sporting.

Christian Thoreson - 2004/10

Thus wheel landings, the safest and easiest way to consistently land a hang glider...

He would benefit greatly from some flare timing practice sessions on the training hill...

He didn't have much left in the way of speed with which to flare.

...as well as a review of the hazards posed by wind gradients encountered during landing approaches.

He knows them. This is only the second downtube he's bent in nearly four decades. But why don't we just start having him land on wheels unless there's a good reason not to?

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=29129
Safety Note; Don't let this hapen to You.

NMERider - 2013/05/29 01:12:13 UTC

Hi Bob,
What exactly did your friend tell you about immediately after whacking what he had done wrong?

The fundamental thing he did wrong was for the most dangerous landing possible on the Happy Acres putting green when he could've come out a lot better by at fifty feet staying prone, letting go of the basetube, and closing his eyes until he was rolled to a stop.

But I one hundred percent guarantee you that neither of those guys was discussing wheel landings immediately after the whack.

Glenn Zapien - 2013/05/29 01:35:36 UTC

Always a student...
-
Always a student.

Fuck you, Glenn. You've never been a student in your entire life.

2013/05/29 02:01:22 UTC - 3 thumbs up - Paul Hurless

Ditto, Paul.

Tormod Helgesen - 2013/05/29 05:05:01 UTC
Oslo

That landing approach would lead to a whack anyway so why blame it on a change of conditions? Way slow and no flare to correct for the lack of the expected headwind, he has been extremely lucky to only bend one downtube in 38 years if that's his normal landing procedure.

It's not his normal procedure (he wouldn't still be alive if it were) but, otherwise, EXACTLY.

Reminds me of this "dust devil" crap...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec

Paul Tjaden - 2013/02/07

Apparently, Zach simply hit strong low level turbulence, probably a dust devil that could not be seen due to the lack of dust in Florida, the nose went too high and he tumbled at a very low altitude.

Strong dust devils in Florida definitely do exist even though they are rare. My wife had a near miss when she encountered a severe dusty a couple years ago and I almost lost a brand new $18,000 ATOS VX when it was torn from its tie down and thrown upside down.

...Quest is blowing in our faces to try to obscure their incompetence and gross negligence in that needless fatal crash.

NMERider - 2013/05/29 05:36:03 UTC

It isn't his normal landing procedure according to my offline conversation with Skydog.

Big surprise.

Jerry Furnell - 2013/05/29 08:12:16 UTC

Too bad skydog can't leave the video up so others can learn from it.

He can. He chooses not to.

I learnt when I was five that sticks and stones...

Yeah, so did I.

Try this little experiment. Next time you're five and your mom's telling you all about how words can never hurt you call her a stupid bitch and watch he reaction.

Words most assuredly DO hurt people. They can result in enough pain and/or ostracism as to totally destroy people's lives.

And in this game words like THESE:

Towing Aloft - 1998/01

Weak links very clearly will provide protection from excessive angles of attack, high bank turns and the like for this form of towing.

Always thank the tug pilot for intentionally releasing you, even if you feel you could have ridden it out. He should be given a vote of confidence that he made a good decision in the interest of your safety.

http://ozreport.com/12.081
Weaklinks - the HGFA rules

Davis Straub - 2008/04/22 14:47:00 UTC

Pilots must use weaklinks provided by the meet organizers and in a manner approved by the meet organizers. All weaklinks will be checked and use of inappropriate weaklinks will require the pilot to go to the end of the launch line to change the weaklink.

Weaklinks will consist of a single loop of Cortland 130 lb Greenspot braided Dacron Tolling line and should be placed at one end of a shoulder bridle.

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=821
Fatal hang gliding accident

Sam Kellner - 2011/11/07 02:47:58 UTC

Preflight, Hangcheck, Know you're hooked in.

The United States Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association, Inc. - 2013/02/07
Standard Operating Procedure

12. Rating System
02. Pilot Proficiency System
08. Intermediate Hang Gliding Rating (H-3)
-B. Required Witnessed Tasks
02. Demonstrated Skills and Knowledge

-g. For witnessed tasks, all landings must be safe, smooth, on the feet, and in control.

...can and do get people killed.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=29129
Safety Note; Don't let this hapen to You.

Tom Emery - 2013/05/29 12:47:30 UTC
San Diego

I WANT TO SEE THE VIDEO. So the guy got some criticism from some "E" strangers. Wah, whah, whahhh!!! I just watched a video of a guy blowing launch at Walt's Point last weekend. Everyone stood around throwing in their two cents and the guy didn't melt or fall down dead.

If you want somebody to fall down dead...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-bRrpHNa68iY/UQ6Pv9gRZyI/AAAAAAAAjTg/Hc22bx5122Q/s2048/20943781_BG1.jpg


...try putting a little loop of 130 pound fishing line...

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8394/8696380718_787dbc0005_o.png


...on one end of his bridle to increase the safety of the towing operation.

Paul Edwards - 2013/05/29 12:51:13 UTC

OK, so the pilot in question knows exactly what he did and doesn't require any of the helpful advice. That's great! In that case he can read through this thread and find confirmation that his analysis was correct.

More importantly, however, the video and commentary is an excellent learning tool for other pilots. This video is one of the best demonstrations of how coming in with insufficient air speed can bite you.

Like there's somebody out there who didn't know that already.

In this case it was a little bit of gradient that got him.

Bullshit. The air was pretty negligible and I doubt the gradient was even measurable. He was WAY too fuckin' slow the whole time and the same thing would've happened in totally dead air.

Perfect demonstration though! Worth a hundred verbal admonitions of the same.

The way I see it, this forum is an archive of information that new pilots of the future are going to come and read.

Minus, of course...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=25302
Interview with Davis Straub, OzReport founder

Jack Axaopoulos - 2012/02/24 15:00:21 UTC

The "Extremist 1%" is not allowed on this site.

...the contributions of the people who really know what the fuck they're talking about. But if you're really into mediocrity, incompetence, shoddiness you'll do just fine and make lotsa good friends.

I know because I spent a lot of time in the past searching through the pages looking for posts just like this one when I wanted to learn more about this or that.

Too bad you didn't...



...read any of the discussions about releases that allow you to actually RELEASE when you NEED TO.

And if you had spent some time here at Kite Strings you could've found out what an asshole Mitch Shipley is twenty months before you had to learn the hard way.

Those anonymous future readers will never leave a post, but they'll take away many good lessons... that is IF we don't delete our videos because our ego can't take it.

Welcome to Twenty-First Century hang gliding, dude.

Notice that in the nearly one year since Terry Mason was killed and nearly four months since Zack Marzec was killed there has been NOTHING in the magazine about EITHER fatality? You don't seem to be sufficiently bothered by that to be making any comments.

As crappy as USHGA and its programs are NOBODY advocates coming in slow (although virtually all training forces people to come in upright so they can't get shit in the way of speed).

Terry and Zack, on the other hand, were both killed because of heavily endorsed, backed, enforced official and unofficial USHGA policy:

- whatever's going on back there can be fixed by some asshole giving you the rope; and
- the only good weak link is one that blows up in your face at the slightest increase over normal tow tension.

And that should be bothering you a helluva lot more than the suppression of yet another whack video.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=29129
Safety Note; Don't let this hapen to You.

Bob Grant - 2013/05/29 12:59:09 UTC

No call
Sorry guys it is not my call to put it up again. Maybe later.

Under my understanding of YouTube policy, if it's not your call to put it up again it wasn't your call to put it up in the first place.

Chris may have some moral claim to the video from his wing camera but that was probably you behind the camera on the ground and it was probably your camera and your memory card.

And if that's indeed the case case he's WAY out of line asking you to pull the entire video - and you're WAY out of line complying with that request.

What's his next step gonna be? Bribing all the eyewitnesses to maintain silence about what happened?

Fuck this guy.

- Totally screwing the pouch, whacking, and taking out a downtube on this "landing" wasn't a big fucking deal. It was a collection of errors, he's not advocating other people duplicate them (the way Davis, Rooney, and Quest are advocating duplicating Zack Marzec's fatal tow), and the only person who got hurt was his glider.

- Suppressing that video, however, IS a big fucking deal - and I hope he gets exactly the judgment and response he deserves for that action.

P.S. If anyone wants a copy for his personal enjoyment I have it - 70.7 megs.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.kitestrings.org/post4401.html#p4401

Oops.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=29129
Safety Note; Don't let this hapen to You.

Walt Conklin - 2013/05/28 18:52:42 UTC

Good thing is, he knew to let go of the DT's.

Bullshit.

Both his hands are still on the downtubes after the basetube has hit and when his upper body is pretty much fully through the control frame and the glider's pitched down about 56 degrees. His hands are ripped off the downtubes and it's his left hand that folds the corresponding downtube as he's swinging forward.

Telling people to let go of the downtubes in a crash is as useful as telling them:

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1166
Thoughts on responsibility...

Scott Wilkinson - 2005/10/05 14:10:56 UTC

We visited Steve Wendt yesterday, who was visibly choked up over Bill's death. For Steve, it all comes down to one thing: you've got to hook in. Period.

"It all comes down to one thing: You've got to hook in. Period."

They're not trying to crash. They're trying to do everything they can not to crash - as they should. And that necessitates both hands on whatever it is they're using to try to control the glider until it's stopped.

And the most effective way to both avoid crashes and avoid injuries if one DOES crash is to keep both hands on the basetube.

[miguel]

And the most effective way to both avoid crashes and avoid injuries if one DOES crash is to keep both hands on the basetube.

The human pile driver technique. Got it!

I'm online about 1hr/week and liking it. Its best to let go and swing. Let the glider absorb the impact. The glider is stronger plus its parts are cheaper to replace.

[Tad Eareckson]

Yes. WHEN a landing becomes a crash OR a crash becomes inevitable it's best to let go and swing.

HOWEVER, that bit of wisdom tends to be totally useless to people attempting to LAND gliders - and those people represent the overwhelming majority of the ones who crash gliders.

This-Video-Is-Private Chris is a classic example.

- He's been flying for 38 years and has heard people tell him at least 38 thousand times that it's best to let go and swing and let the glider absorb the impact.

- But when the shit hits the fan he - big surprise - finds himself in classic spiral fracture-of-the-humerus / shoulder-dislocation configuration with his hands trapped on the downtubes aft of his shoulders.

And you can tell him another 38 thousand times that it's best to let go and swing and let the glider absorb the impact but if he screws the pooch again or Mother Nature decides to fuck him over and dump him back into a similar situation the video's gonna look about the same - he's gonna be baggage waiting for the Newtonian physics to finish playing themselves out.

My point is that in damn near ANY landing crash the pilot's hands WILL BE somewhere on the control frame tubing - regardless of what he's been told and/or has planned to do - and if that tubing is one basetube rather than two downtubes his abilities to mitigate the crash and minimize or prevent damage to himself are both gonna go WAY UP.

[Steve Davy]

P.S. If anyone wants a copy for his personal enjoyment I have it - 70.7 megs.

No thanks. Seen one whack you've seen them all.

I wouldn't mind viewing Jonathan's pathetic attempt at towing his aircraft with fishing string again though.