Looks like my guy that "talked to the examining doctor" was wrong.
- Or lying.
- How come:
-- "talked to the examining doctor" is in quotes?
-- "the examining doctor" reported this information to "your guy" but not the press?
-- "your guy" didn't report this critical information himself?
- Which one of "your guys"? How come "your guys" never seem to have names?
- Do other people see "your guys" - or are you the only one for whom they're visible?
- How:
-- come you didn't report this "information" before?
-- is it possible to get this wrong?
Oh well.
Oh well.
The implications of this are pretty shitty.
Yeah. In the span of 309 days we've got two Dragonflies spinning out of the sky and killing two highly qualified and experienced commercial rated and professional Dragonfly tug pilots pilots with not the slightest hint of a rational explanation - or even a good guess from the combined talent of all the fucking geniuses and keen intellectuals from within the Dragonfly community.
And then four months and four days ago we had a highly qualified and experienced professional aerotow tandem instructor plummet out of the sky...
Like the rest of us, you have no idea what really happened on that tow.
We probably never will know.
...beyond perhaps having had difficulties with a nonexistent dust devil.
And then about one month ago we had a highly qualified and experienced tandem instructor plummet out of the sky to within a few feet of certain death...
Carful who you put stock in mate.
Calling blindrodie a fool? Seriously? Easily discounted?
You may not have an understanding of who you're brushing off... In lieu of some people that have been listening to the rantings of, I kid you not, a convicted pedophile. I'm willing to look past the messenger... To a point. But gimme a break... You're blowing off a tug pilot instead?
...PERCEIVED tug pilots and a little more stock in some of the rantings of convicted pedophiles.
How 'bout you fuckin' Dragonfly douchebags figure out how to keep your own planes from plummeting out of the sky...
...before you start dictating what we gliders can and can't use to keep OUR planes from plummeting out of the sky?
Enjoy
Yep. You've finished gracing us with your Keen Intellect, nothing more to be discussed here, on to...
On May 26, 2012, about 1630 eastern daylight time, an experimental light-sport Dragonfly, N56FP, operated by a private individual, was substantially damaged when it impacted terrain while maneuvering, shortly after takeoff from Lookout Mountain Airport (0GE3), Trenton, Georgia. The airline transport pilot was fatally injured. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed and no flight plan had been filed for the personal local flight that was conducted under the provisions of 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 91.
According to Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) inspector, the airplane departed 0GE3 without incident, climbed to an altitude of about 350 to 400 feet above ground level, and flew to a nearby ridgeline to evaluate wind conditions for hang-gliding flights, which were operated from the airport. Witnesses reported that the airplane looked slow as it flew parallel to the ridgeline and subsequently entered a left spiraling dive. One witness stated that the airplane made two 360-degree turns and he heard the engine "operating normally" before it impacted trees. The airplane's fuselage and both wings were substantially damaged.
According to FAA records, the airplane was manufactured in 1998, from "spare or salvaged parts," and equipped with a Rotax 914 series, 115-horsepower engine. In addition, it was equipped with a Ballistic Recovery Systems (BRS) airframe parachute system.
Examination of the airframe and engine by an FAA inspector did not reveal any mechanical malfunctions that would have precluded normal operation. The inspector noted that all three propeller blades were fractured and displayed rotational signatures. The BRS parachute system was in the armed for flight position; however, it had not been activated, and was discharged by recovery personnel.
The pilot, age 45, held an airline transport pilot certificate with ratings for multiengine airplane land and sea. He also held a commercial pilot certificate with a rating for airplane single-engine land and a private pilot certificate with a rating for gliders. The pilot reported 3,000 hours of total flight experience on his most recent application for an FAA second-class medical certificate, which was issued with no limitations, on January 15, 1993.
The pilot's logbook was not recovered. According to the operator, the pilot was very familiar with the accident airplane and had been flying it regularly during the previous 2 years.
An autopsy was performed on the pilot by the Georgia Bureau of Investigation Division of Forensic Sciences. The autopsy report revealed the pilot's cause of death as injuries consistent with "blunt force trauma." In addition, the medical examiner reported the absence of significant gross natural disease and no focal myocardial lesions observed during internal examination.
Toxicological testing performed on the pilot by the FAA Bioaeronautical Science Research Laboratory, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, was negative for alcohol and positive for an undetermined amount of Losartan, an antihypertensive medication.
The airplane was issued a special airworthiness certificate as an experimental light-sport aircraft on November 28, 2007. Review of maintenance records revealed that the airplane's most recent condition inspection was performed on April 5, 2012, at an airplane total time of about 3,415 total hours, and an engine total time of 555 hours. The operator stated that the airplane had been flying regularly since the inspection, with no anomalies reported.
Winds reported at an airport located about 14 miles northeast of 0GE3, around the time of the accident, were from 40 degrees at 6 knots.
I've flown with four tug drivers who've checked out prematurely.
Jon Leak
- Pulled my first (and, because the gas tank on his Cosmos trike shortly thereafter worked itself loose and went through the propellor, last for a while) aerotow at Robinson Airport on the Patuxent River on 1986/08/01.
- Really nice guy, polar opposite of Rooney - especially in the head-up-assedness department.
- About seven years later towed me at a fly-in or two at the Pike County Airport in Waverly Ohio.
- He actually DID die of a heart attack aloft - while doing aerobatics in an ultralight.
John Pattison
- Developed the Mountaineer Trike tug - and wing to go with it. I flew behind his tugs and with him at those Pike County Airport fly-ins.
- Blew the girlfriend and himself away in a murder-suicide. Left a couple of about thirteen year old boys behind.
Chad Elchin
- Cofounder - with Sunny Venesky - of Highland Aerosports. Liked Chad, his little brother can rot in hell.
- Climbed to four hundred feet in his Dragonfly with a clamped but unbolted wing strut. Front mounted ballistic parachute fouled.
Les Taff
- Towed behind her Flight Star tug at Ridgely in 2003. Liked her. Suicide - 2006/04/01. Took a dive out of a tree.
Little would make me happier than hearing about Rooney needing to be scraped off a runway - and my joy would know no bounds if he were snuffed in a Zack Marzec scenario or at least fatally stalled in a Dragonfly by a glider using a "standard aerotow weak link" - but, yeah, it's pretty sad when a noncombatant goes down.
But it's way sadder when the survivors closest to the situation refuse to participate in public discussions and - if that's the best they can do - SPECULATE as to the most likely cause of the crash.
Barring some weird medical issue - which I really doubt - there was DEFINITELY something wrong with Keavy's Dragonfly and I don't believe that it would've been beyond our capabilities to at least get a pretty guess as to what it was.
And the chances aren't all that bad that it was the same issue that took - or helped take - Charles Matthews down.
And it's not the least bit unreasonable to assume that the flight parks are as in love with the "freak accident" write-off for the front end of the towline as they are for the back.
And Rooney - who is a product of Quest, Ridgely, and Blue Sky and a default spokesman for all of the above - flat out lied about Keavy having died as a consequence of "a rookie mistake made under duress and extremely low".
And NOBODY from The Industry lifted a finger to contradict him.
And, as far as I'm concerned, that inaction is every bit as sleazy as the lie.
I have been stewing over this for a while and it just keeps happening.I see a trend setting up here that will kill ushpa and the sport i love.The root of my anger is the FACT that i had to trade a true ACE hangglider pilot with well over 5000 hrs flight time,he flys more than all us young pups,hes over seventy years old and can still out-fly almost all of us.WE had to trade this man who is the perfect elder to give ratings and advise, for the keystone cops.Sadly after this slap in the face he does not seem to want any position back.Now let me bring you up to speed on today's reality.Today we have what seems to be self important people with there own agenda teaching giving advise to people hurdling themselves off a cliff.These people have some fight experience and some weather experience but nothing like the old veteran.Unfortunately when the new guy comes into the fold they dont have a clue who is a high time pilot and who dont know shit.We seem to have a high number of new people who want to be someone of importance and they are willing to portray themselves as veterans when in fact they are hard headed and unwilling to take advise from the locals or the local old timer.This whole problem comes from getting rid of the special observer.It is a matter of life and death to our sport to keep the old veteran in all our groups in charge of who gets his or her ratting,not some self important noob with a agenda..
So anybody out there in cyber land or anywhere else who gives advise better put up or shut up, on the advise thing(video or flying with us) I cant sit by while people are running the lemmings off the cliff(giving bad advise) and say nothing.I do see a answer to what im concerned about.We need to have a weather awareness clinic or section on the tests, at the very least.Micro meteorology also needs to be a big part of the clinic.Any noob out there should demand video of the people giving advise or better yet see the guy fly in person before taking advise from jo on line pro pilot.If you need a online mentor RED has never given bad advise.
I see a trend setting up here that will kill ushpa and the sport i love.
Anything that helps kill USHPA and the sport YOU love I couldn't possibly be any more in favor of.
The root of my anger is the FACT that i had to trade a true ACE hangglider pilot with well over 5000 hrs flight time...
...speculation. That's 'cause those who speculate about the Zack Marzec fatality will invariably and inevitably reach the conclusion that he and his aerotow industry colleagues are a bunch of stupid, incompetent, negligent, lying, serial killing pieces of shit.
- The root of MY anger is a sport controlled by a bunch of stupid, incompetent, negligent, lying, serial killing pieces o' shit and infested with hordes of semiliterate douchebags stupid enough to "think" that there's the slightest correlation between airtime and/or experience and legitimacy of advice.
...he flys more than all us young pups,hes over seventy years old and can still out-fly almost all of us.
Yeah? So? That automatically means that he understands the aeronautical theory necessary to properly and safely convey the information and knowledge necessary to train aviators?
WE had to trade this man who is the perfect elder to give ratings and advise, for the keystone cops.
- Do these people have names?
- No way in hell would I send anyone about whom I gave a rat's ass into a training program in which ratings are GIVEN (or, as in the case in Texas, SOLD) and/or which is based on ADVICE.
- How 'bout a sample of some of this ADVICE that can only come from someone who's accumulated five thousand hours of airtime? If it can:
-- be conveyed in a few words, sentences, or paragraphs why does somebody need five thousand hours of airtime to learn it on his own?
-- only be understood by someone who's accumulated five thousand hours then what good is it to anyone who hasn't accumulated five thousand hours of airtime?
Sadly after this slap in the face he does not seem to want any position back.
Well, with all the pilots to whom he gave ratings after they'd absorbed an adequate degree of his top notch advice we're probably still in pretty good shape.
Now let me bring you up to speed on today's reality.
First, how 'bout pausing long enough to start a new paragraph? Or at least long enough to hit the fuckin' space bar once or twice after the period?
Today we have what seems to be self important people with there own agenda teaching giving advise to people hurdling themselves off a cliff.
And when in the history of hang gliding has that NOT been the case?
These people have some fight experience...
A lot of those people run from fight experience - 'cause if they don't have "moderators" with lock and ban buttons to protect them they'll get their balls cut off in about fifteen seconds.
...and some weather experience but nothing like the old veteran.
Bummer. I guess people will just hafta go to conventional aviation texts and learn for themselves.
Unfortunately when the new guy comes into the fold they dont have a clue who is a high time pilot and who dont know shit.
Unfortunately when the new guy comes into the fold he don't have a clue that the vast majority of high time "pilots" are totally full of shit.
We seem to have a high number of new people who want to be someone of importance and they are willing to portray themselves as veterans...
I was running the flight park from 2001-2005 so not so long ago and not really the real early stages. However sometime in 99/00 I learned to AT on my own after watching 2 of my buddies do the same behind a DF. For me it was easy to do. I used the COM bridle and a Falcon 1 195. I then got my "official" AT rating a few years later from the late Les Taff when she came to our flight park to train our tug pilots.
By that time and after communications with nearly all other major flight parks at that time we went with 130# greenspot.
Regardless of these facts, the general rules (weaklink calculations) set down by the FAA and sailplane towing was still the calculation that we used as a base to determine if we felt a stronger weaklink was necessary for each and every individual flight.
My/our pre-launch Mantra was (wish I had a dime for every time I said this to a pilot) "Be ready for a weak link break and IF there is ANY problem RELEASE!!
...Rodie and...
Jim Rooney - 2013/02/13 19:09:33 UTC
It was already worked out by the time I arrived.
The reason it sticks?
Trail and error.
...Rooney?
...when in fact they are hard headed and unwilling to take advise from the locals or the local old timer.
What? We have special aviation for special geography?
This whole problem comes from getting rid of the special observer.
I can think of tons of stuff we need to get rid of.
It is a matter of life and death to our sport to keep the old veteran in all our groups in charge...
Yeah, let's put George Worthington in charge of airworthiness standards and Bobby Bailey - who's a fucking genius when it comes to this shit - in charge of glider releases, weak links, and tow mast breakaways.
...of who gets his or her ratting...
I got all the rattings I ever needed from this sport - and then some.
...not some self important noob with a agenda..
Especially if his AGENDA is something like compelling compliance with FAA aerotowing or USHGA hook-in check regulations.
So anybody out there in cyber land or anywhere else who gives advise better put up or shut up, on the advise thing(video or flying with us)
- Or WHAT? Fuck you.
- I have ZERO desire to fly with, be anywhere near, or gain approval from any of "us".
I cant sit by while people are running the lemmings off the cliff(giving bad advise) and say nothing.
Neither can I. So nowadays I entertain myself with saying stuff like "Way to go, dude!" and "Told ya so."
I do see a answer to what im concerned about.We need to have a weather awareness clinic or section on the tests, at the very least.Micro meteorology also needs to be a big part of the clinic.
And let's not forget hang checks and Cone of Safety training.
Any noob out there should demand video of the people giving advise...
I do not recommend "stepping" on a cable (I assume you mean in mid-span) as part of a preflight. If your foot hits the ground with the cable underneath, or sand or rocks are trapped in your shoe treads, you could damage the cable that you are testing.
2013/06/11 05:45:31 UTC - 3 thumbs up - Lafe Williams
2013/06/10 23:35:39 UTC - 3 thumbs up - fly,surf,&ski
2013/06/11 01:45:37 UTC - 3 thumbs up - Don Arsenault
2013/06/11 00:31:42 UTC - 3 thumbs up - NMERider
Some background would be nice for those of us who have no clue what you're talking about.
Anybody who DOES have a clue what he's talking about should go right on listening to him - and nobody else.
John Glime - 2013/06/10 23:58:44 UTC
Salt Lake City
So people trying to be helpful on a forum need credentials? Or people reading should use some sense and not believe everything they read on the internet.
Or people reading should be enough English, math, and science literate to figure out whether or not the authors are full of shit.
You can take a guy like Dennis Pagen who has credentials, and in a group of hang glider pilots you will still have people who will say he is full of shit and self interested motivations.
Fuck Dennis. He's TOTALLY full of shit and NOTHING BUT self interested.
Isn't this the nature of human interactions, people are opinionated?
Doesn't have shit to do with people being OPINIONATED. NONE of this is about OPINION.
Jim Steel - 2013/06/11 00:08:15 UTC
Hey, nobody's perfect.
No, but aviation THEORY is. And explanations of it CAN and SHOULD be.
As far as sage advice; as an "always learning" pilot of 25 years I take sage suggestions with some parsley and a grain of salt. If you're having problems, best thing is to ignore chat and fly with and emulate pilots having good safety record.
- Zack Marzec had a totally awesome safety record right up until the afternoon of 2013/02/02. Fuck the pilots with good safety records. Look at what's getting people creamed and after decades, years, months, weeks, days of establishing good safety records and avoid or eliminate from your repertoire...
Most common HG injury... spiral fracture of the humerus.
...whatever it is.
- But one thing that's glaringly obvious from watching highly experienced, skilled, successful flyers is that their hands are very seldom anywhere but on the basetube - and whenever on the downtubes only for the briefest possible periods.
Don Arsenault - 2013/06/11 01:49:21 UTC
Toronto
I'm glad I have the chance to learn from one of the old (sorry Michael) originals to this sport, with well over 10,000 hrs in the air!
Wow! His advice must be well over TWICE as good as someone with just five thousand hours in the air! So what was his advice on:
- not getting an eye taken out by a ring on the end of a polypro towline recoiling after an understrength weak link blow?
- avoiding the next Lenami Godinez-Avila and Zack Marzec fatalities?
And no one is going to push him out from this area!
No one is ever gonna push ANY of these motherfuckers out of their areas. They remind me a lot of Spotted Knapweed.
I fear his retirement though, but he's still got a few years left in him for sure!
Yeah. And just think what a quality piece of work he'll be...
It was not a weak link break, and I don't believe the release touched the control bar. I got a crap release. That's all there is to it. I never ever had a double release on any of the training harnesses. When I switched to the spaghetti, and bought this release, it double released on me all the time, but I usually don't transition until at least two hundred feet, so it's always been a non-event. Annoying, but a non-event. I told them there was something wrong with the release, and they didn't believe me. Thought I was too new, and it was my technique. Until this flight. The release just let go. My hands never left the down tubes, and it did not touch the base bar. It was the final straw. If I let the video keep rolling, you would have seen me quickly lose my cool, and yell and curse and march into the office to demand a new release.
...after FIFTEEN thousand hours.
I agree, Red has never given bad advice, and continues to try his hardest to help out all the fledgling pilots. Great job Red!!! Keep it up!
No posts or links about Bob K, Scott C Wise, Tad Eareckson and related people, or their material. ALL SUCH POSTS WILL BE IMMEDIATELY DELETED. These people are poison to this sport and are permanently banned from this site in every possible way imaginable.
...with a different take on Red.
2013/06/11 04:12:12 UTC - 3 thumbs up - Janica Lee
You might wanna ease off on some of those thumbs ups a bit until you get a better grip on what's going on in this sport, Helix.
I strongly disagree with banning the one guy who has the most knowledge about safety issues involving what I believe is the most dangerous part of our sport. I hear someone dies every year from towing. I hope SG bites his tongue in the interest of public safety. Maybe just changing the heading of the post to, Blatant plug for aerotow weaklink. Does anyone really think he stands to get rich out of selling these, I don't think so. I suspect his main motivation is to save some lives and to not have all his hard work gone to waste. Keep the cocky bastard on I say
...eliminated altogether.
I wish folks like Ryan and Jim Rooney were still on this site giving advice, but they just got too much crap from others and now they are gone.
- Both of those motherfuckers are lying incompetent pieces of shit.
- Rooney didn't leave because he was getting too much crap from others - he was banned by Jack.
- If you wanna hear some more of Rooney's valuable contributions to important discussions...
Sorry, I'm sick and tired of all these soap box bullshit assheads that feel the need to spout their shit at funerals. I just buried my friend and you're seizing the moment to preach your bullshit? GO FUCK YOURSELF!!!!!!!!
I can barely stand these pompus asswipes on a normal day.
...just bop on over to The Davis Show where - in recognition of his dedication to cock sucking above and beyond the call of duty - he's got a lifetime pass to keep on saying what he's always kept on saying:
- See, the thing is... "we", the people that work at and run aerotow parks, have a long track record.
- This stuff isn't new, and has been slowly refined over decades.
- We have done quite literally hundreds of thousands of tows.
- We know what we're doing.
- The shit doesn't work. If it did, we'd be using it everywhere.
There is a lesson in that too.
What's the lesson? I've taken more shit from more assholes than you'd be able to comprehend in three lifetimes. You wanna hear what I've got to say you can still hear it.
2013/06/11 02:14:07 UTC - 3 thumbs up - Janica Lee
2013/06/11 15:57:00 UTC - 3 thumbs up - Brian Horgan
When your thumbs are aligning with Brian's you might wanna consider rethinking things a bit.
Robert Seckold - 2013/06/11 02:24:58 UTC
Australia
I agree Nicos, I have been guilty in the past. I try these days if things get heated to step away from the keyboard. If it is appropriate to post a comment it will still be appropriate tomorrow.
If someone can't take the heat...
Brian Horgan - 2013/06/11 16:36:24 UTC
Ok now for my reasoning on showing video.I know allot of you guys not girls out there have a ego to maintain...
Nah, Linda Salamone doesn't have an ego to maintain.
...and this is the wall ,barrier,fuking retarded state of mind that im trying to get through here.What happened to the humble student.Now when i say humble student,i mean all of us old and new to the sport.
The humble students - be they Hang Zeros or Fives - are all programmed or, failing that, encouraged to think that the only people who get seriously fucked up or killed in this sport...
But I'm one of Matt's 'defective products'. The first thing I learned to do in the field at Lookout was a hang check. I was told a story by my instructor about the then-recent death of a pilot who launched without being through his leg loops. The instructor called this pilot an 'idiot'. This is how I was taught to think from Day 1. As you said, it's a bitch to rewire a brain...
...are total morons doing the gene pool big favors - nothing to do with high quality individuals and paying customers such as themselves.
I have a hard time watching the new guys coming into this sport and trying to be mentors when they should be listening.
If you'd stop and actually listen rather than just collecting things to argue about, you might actually learn what the hell I'll tow and what I won't.
But alas, that's not going to happen.
Some people just live to argue.
You can't help it. I know, I know.
I'd say it's ok, but it wouldn't be true.
I couldn't agree more.
Video will without any doubt prove if your all talk or ability.
Yeah kids. Whenever you see someone flying like THIS:
you should also fly without wheels - preferably upside down - and listen to him when he tells you to:
- violate the crap out of:
-- the USHGA regulation requiring hook-in checks
-- USHGA aerotow release performance standards
-- FAA aerotow weak link regulations
- use your Rooney Link as an instant hands free release
I myself would want to learn from someone who is accomplished,not some guy with some on line ego to maintain,video will weed these types of people out.
I myself would want to learn from someone who knows what the fuck he's talking about regardless of his:
- ego
- airtime
- FAI world records for speeds over triangle courses
- aerobatic competition record
- years driving Dragonflies up and down
- flare timing accuracy
- USHGA merit badges
- general, commercial, and/or military qualifications
- abilities to solve Navier-Stokes equations
- doctoral degrees
- crash record
When i question someones ability it is because i want to fly with all you guys and girls someday and i dont want to watch another death happen in front of me because of some fuk tard who needs his ego stroked, gave shitty advice.
At that moment, I would banish all concern about launching unhooked. I had taken care of it. It was done. It was out of my mind.
Until i see you fly in person or on video i will give no quarter to you or much respect to you when you are giving advice to the new guys.
That's OK, motherfucker. There are only a few videos of me flying, they predate your entry into the sport by a decade and a half or two, you're never gonna see them, and if I ever had any respect from you I'd immediately start questioning what it was I got so wrong.
Nowadays i just want proof you practice what you preach.
'Cause you have neither the interest or brains required to check the validity of what someone's saying.
If im perceived as a dickhead for trying to keep you guys from killing yourselves then so be it.
I perceive you as a dickhead because:
- You ARE a dickhead.
- You're encouraging people to defer to hotshot airjocks is about the best way to get them killed I can think of.
- I rarely have respect for people who can't be bothered to hit shift and space keys because that's a great indicator of just how interested they are in getting things right in everything else they do.
- I despise Aussie Methodists.
- I can't recall you ever contributing anything useful to a postmortem discussion.
Im ok with being the on line pecker head. thumbsup
Great. I'm not.
2013/06/11 18:44:04 UTC - 3 thumbs up - Don Arsenault
Video will without any doubt prove if your all talk or ability.
Sorry to burst your bubble bro but video is fundamentally illusory and misleading by its very nature and by the nature of the average viewer's perceptions.
So's watching people do loops from the LZ.
Take my word for it.
Don't need to.
IMHO...
Starting to lose interest, Jonathan.
Nothing takes the place of a personal endorsement from a reliable and trusted third party or by peer review to validate a pilot's competence.
This assumes the sport itself knows what the fuck it's doing. Sorry to burst your bubble bro but - IT DOESN'T.
The Org, like many other forums is unmoderated...
Yeah. Right.
...and anyone who can log on is free to post whatever they like so long as it doesn't violate the rules stated in the Wiki.
BULL FUCKING SHIT.
You don't even have to be a pilot to log on here and give your 2-cents worth for the whole world to see.
As long as it's fundamentally in line with the mainstream.
Here's another factoid while we're at it - I've heard just as much BS in various LZs from the mouths of pilots with decades of experience as I read here from posters who I don't even know.
Grebloville. Big surprise.
It's each and every pilot's personal responsibility to determine who they can trust for advice and when they can trust that advice.
Fuck that, Jonathan. There's SUPPOSED to be a goddam Pilot Proficiency / Rating system in place that's had four decades to evolve and get things right so that a student can:
- get a rating from an instructor who's consistent with every other instructor
- know which way is up
- fly safely at a site or operation consistent with his rating
- not hafta pick and choose between the advice and opinions of a bunch of stupid, testosterone poisoned local assholes
Those are my thoughts on the matter and you can either give me penny not.
Fuck 'em.
Mike Bastan - 2013/06/11 17:30:03 UTC
Los Angeles
I don't have many opinions of my own.
Good. The sport's got a major infestation problem as it is. That's why I've got a pretty brutal restriction policy on them over here.
I'm merely a conduit for my (former) instructors' opinions...
The fact that your instruction was presented and/or perceived as OPINIONS is confirmation that it dangerously sucked.
...who I consider among the best when it comes to safety...
In your OPINION.
...based on many factors including their own safety record and that of other students.
Bullshit.
- If you got and understood solid aviation training you wouldn't be basing anything on anybody's safety records.
- You have no solid idea what anybody's safety record is because EVERYTHING in this sport is anecdotal. As far as the magazine is concerned Terry Mason and Zack Marzec are still doing just fine.
I got flamed a while back, for pointing out what I considered an early hand transition at launch...
...based on the fact I didn't share tons of videos or other info. A pilot with 100x more experience than me might always make early hand transitions, post videos of it and get away with it - does that make his opinion right?
It doesn't have shit to do with OPINION. It has to do with whether or not there is any evidence of or logical reason for early transitions being dangerous or more dangerous than delayed transitions. And as far as I've seen and experienced and can analyze one is a lot more likely to get fucked up flying in a suboptimal configuration during critical operations near the surface.
Instead of using videos for proof we know what we're talking about how about asking people to back up their opinions with facts, theory, experience, etc.
fuk man i dont even want to be in charge of anything but i will call you out if your giving advise and nobody has seen you fly or you knows your skill level..
But if people HAVE seen you fly - at top competition level or totally incompetently - or knows your skill level - Five, Four, Three, Two, One, Zero (doesn't matter what it is as long as you've got one) - you get free rein to spew whatever crap you feel like all over the web with the utmost respect from your Fellow Flyers.
That's not a tree landing video - that's a crash back into the top of the ridge video.
...only echoes what im talking about.
And he made his mistakes as a direct consequence of all the crappy advice he'd gotten from people who'd posted without providing videos of themselves landing in narrow dry riverbeds with large rocks strewn all over the place, buzzing launches, and/or doing loops.
The video of the guy pushing out on a turbulent launch...
The launch wasn't turbulent enough to cite that as a significant issue.
...is a prime example of the trends im seeing.
Zack Marzec is a prime example of the trends I've been seeing over decades of aerotowing. But:
- I didn't hear you getting involved in any of those discussions
- the discussions have all been shut down - as usual - by people with world famous flying skills and tons of video coverage
The VIDEO of this guys mistake will likely save his life because he can recap.
Bullshit. It helped illustrate his mistakes and what was going on but I one hundred percent guarantee you that if we fished him out of the trees and sent him off on another U2 fifteen minutes later the bar would've been another eight inches back and he'd have been another twenty-five yards out before he even started thinking about the lift band.
If you still have not gotten my point.
#1 we need a weather clinic.
Why? So we won't have as many gliders mushing back into the slope in light ridge lift conditions?
#2 we need mentor ship that's not full of green horns.
Why? Do you have the slightest scrap of evidence that people are crashing because the mentorship they're getting from greenhorns is worse than the crap they're being taught by professional airjocks at Windsports, Lockout, Quest, Manquin, Ridgely?
You've racked up a reputation as a real hotshot airjock and here's what your card says:
Brian Horgan - 63364 - H4 - 1999/03/15 - Ken Muscio - AT FL AWCL CL FSL RLF TUR XC
With those qualifications...
- What could somebody say that you wouldn't be able to distinguish as solid or bullshit without needing to see a video of the author airborne?
- If you can't distinguish between solid or bullshit without needing to see a video of the author airborne then what good are those qualifications?
How come I can't recall you ever identifying any dangerous bullshit from any of these marginally airworthy bozos?
The only thing that I've ever heard from one of these assholes who's racked up thousands of hours of airtime over the course of decades of flying is that he'll wager the house that he's got things sussed a bit better than an armchair warrior because he's racked up thousands of hours of airtime over the course of decades of flying.
I've never actually heard actually heard anything useful that could only be learned by racking up thousands of hours of airtime over the course of decades of flying.
And if I did I wouldn't be able to understand it because it can only be understood by racking up thousands of hours of airtime over the course of decades of flying.
But then I start to wonder how important an item that can only be understood by racking up thousands of hours of airtime over the course of decades of flying is because all of the people who understand it were able to survive thousands of hours of airtime over the course of decades of flying before they understood it.
You name me ONE item of bullshit conveyed by a marginally airworthy bozo that hasn't been matched or dwarfed by some multi thousand hour asshole like Davis, Rooney, or Dr. Trisa Tilletti.
In forty years worth of the history of this sport the collective wisdom hasn't been able to figure out the difference between a hang check and a hook-in check and a release and a weak link. So I really don't understand why ANYTHING ANYBODY says or doesn't say and is believed or discounted matters in the least. Maybe you could explain it to me.
hey how about posting some footage of you flying so we all know your not full of crap when you give advise.I want proof your not a armchair pilot.Just to get things straight here,I think you are a hang 2 class pilot with no real experience.So once again lets see some footage!Please prove me wrong and then i will shut up.
One more thing, Brian...
People aren't crashing and getting hurt and killed because they failed to get some valuable advice obtainable only from multi-thousand hour gurus. They're crashing and getting hurt and killed because they're:
- making obvious sub Hang Two level mistakes
- obviously pushing their luck
- doing obvious stupid shit
Basics...
- If you're worried about a sidewire failing under load decide where you prefer to have it fail under load - in the setup area or two hundred feet over the setup area. If you're not worried about a sidewire failing ask yourself if there aren't other hobbies you might enjoy more.
- If you're sure you're hooked in five seconds prior to launch go ahead and violate USHGA's hook-in check regulation - again.
- Foot launches are DEMANDING and DANGEROUS - especially with rocks and/or trees nearby and with no or cross and/or turbulent wind. Streamers, adequate crew, care, timing, control.
- When one or more hands are or come off the basetube your control authority goes down the toilet and, if you're near the surface, your likelihood of crashing goes through the ceiling - times ten if you're on tow. Don't:
-- wait around with your hands on the downtubes after a foot launch to adhere to some asshole's five second rule
-- practice for doing a spot no stepper in a narrow dry riverbed with large rocks strewn all over the place
-- tow up with a release actuator within easy reach
- If you think that:
-- going down towards something hard is safer than going up towards more air
-- it's just as safe to set up a landing from fifteen feet as it is from fifteen hundred feet
-- a total instantaneous power failure on launch can never be anything worse than an inconvenience
-- you're a competent enough pilot to prevent a stall under any circumstances
-- you're a competent enough pilot to prevent a stall under any circumstances in which you also experience a total instantaneous power failure
then always tow with a Rooney Link and always thank your tug pilot for intentionally releasing you, even if you feel you could have ridden it out, in order that he be given a vote of confidence that he's made a good decision in the interest of your safety.
- If you think that your tug pilot can never widen your safety margin by increasing or decreasing speed and/or climbing or diving and/or turning to stay in position in front of you then:
-- always thank your tug pilot for intentionally releasing you, even if you feel you could have ridden it out, in order that he be given a vote of confidence that he's made a good decision in the interest of your safety; and
-- ask yourself just how much difference there is between the best tug pilot in the world and the worst tug pilot in the world.
- The taller the grass or the larger and more abundant the rocks in your field of choice the greater the likelihood of you getting fucked up - unless, of course, you've perfected your foot landing skills.
- If you're always totally confident:
-- of making fields do wide patterns and long finals
-- that you'll stop with plenty of runway left over aim for the middle of your field
None of the above is rocket science in need of interpretation, explanation, implementation, guidance by gurus; a lot it is never addressed; and a lot of the chronic problems were implemented and are maintained by gurus.
And multi-thousand hour gurus don't have and can't teach any more defiance of Newtonian physics than Hang 2.5s and they're just as capable of being smashed to lifeless pulps when they make sub Hang Two level mistakes, pushing their luck, and/or do stupid shit.
John Glime - 2013/06/11 00:17:40 UTC
Salt Lake City
While I am not against viewing hang gliding videos, I don't feel any need for them to validate their ability to fly a hang glider. Flying a hang glider, in and of itself, is not that hard and doesn't really mean too much.
