Weak links

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/2013USNationalsrules.php
2013 US Nationals at Big Spring, Texas

Pilots will be shown how to tie the weaklink so that it more likely breaks at its rating breaking strength.

Lessee...

We've been towing behind Dragonflies for over twenty-two years and somebody's FINALLY gonna show us how to tie the weaklink so that it more likely breaks at its secret rating breaking strength.

- Do we hafta wait until the pilots meeting the morning of the competition to learn how to tie the new secret weak link so that it more likely breaks at its secret rating breaking strength? This sounds pretty revolutionary. Wouldn't it make sense to describe the process or provide a video so that we could get some practice in before we go live?

- What if we're not gonna attend the competition? Shouldn't the dozen or so people who won't be able to make it to the comp have benefit of this new secret method of tying the new secret weak link material so that it more likely breaks at its secret rating breaking strength?

- How come the meet organizers haven't shared this secret tying method with the flight parks who are all constantly striving to perfect aerotowing? Or does this new weak link material and tying method offer such a radical improvement in aerotowing safety that we don't wanna be just handing it out free to whatever muppets just happen along?

- If you use the new secret tying method with the new secret fishing line will flight park operators who don't give shits about rating breaking strengths and numbers have something that...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Bart Weghorst - 2011/08/28 20:29:27 UTC

Now I don't give a shit about breaking strength anymore. I really don't care what the numbers are. I just want my weaklink to break every once in a while.

...just breaks every once in a while - preferably as early as possible in lockout situations but not in turbulence?

- If I'm unable to master the secret new tying method which makes it more likely for the new secret fishing line to break at its secret rating breaking strength can't I just use some inappropriate fishing line and a Fisherman's Knot and Double Lark's Head which makes it less likely for it to break at its rating breaking strength?

- I once locked out on an early Laminar ST. Went past vertical and past 45 degrees to the line of pull - and the load forces were increasing dramatically. The Rooney Link blew as I was reaching for my easily stored Davis Bent Pin Mini Barrel and the glider stalled - needed every bit of the 250 feet I had to speed up and pull out.

-- I'm alive because I didn't use a secret new fishing line tied in the new secret method such that it more likely breaks at its secret rating breaking strength.

-- Can I get a waiver to fly a single loop of 130 pound Greenspot tied with a Fisherman's Knot and installed on the end of my bridle with a Double Lark's Head?

-- That's a proven system that works and has a huge track record.

- If I start locking out low will I be permitted to blow my release at below the tension allowed by my new secret fishing line installed using the new secret tying method which makes my weak link more likely to break at its secret rating breaking strength? (I'd like to be able to do that but it seems like cheating because it would be the moral equivalent of using a weak link not provided and used in a manner approved by the meet organizers.)

(This is the most fun I've had since the Zack Marzec freak accident. (But, of course, this is still just more fallout from the Zack Marzec freak accident so I guess it's not really fair to count it as a separate category.))

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/2013USNationalsrules.php
2013 US Nationals at Big Spring, Texas

2.0 EQUIPMENT

Appropriate aerotow bridles

Competitors must use appropriate aerotow bridles as determined by the Meet Director and Safety Director and their designated officials. Bridles must include secondary releases (as determined by the Safety Director). Bridles must be able to be connected to the tow line within two seconds. The only appropriate bridles can be found here:
http://OzReport.com/9.039#0

and:
http://ozreport.com/9.041#2.

Pilots who have not already had their bridles inspected during the practice days must bring their bridles to the mandatory pilot safety briefing and have them reviewed. Pilots with inappropriate bridles may purchase appropriate bridles from the meet organizer.

Un fuckin' believable.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=29531
Tells it like he sees it!

Janica Lee - 2013/07/17 23:42:29 UTC

Imagine flight restrictions were being discussed about your home site. Would you accept decisions made by a regulatory board whose members consisted solely of paragliders? I think not.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
weak links

Jim Rooney - 2007/07/22 22:30:28 UTC

I've heard it a million times before from comp pilots insisting on towing with even doubled up weaklinks (some want no weaklink). I tell them the same thing I'm telling you... suck it up.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3600
Weak link question

Jim Rooney - 2008/11/24 05:18:15 UTC

I've personally refused to tow a flight park owner over this very issue. I didn't want to clash, but I wasn't towing him. Yup, he wanted to tow with a doubled up weaklink. He eventually towed (behind me) with a single and sorry to disappoint any drama mongers, we're still friends. And lone gun crazy Rooney? Ten other tow pilots turned him down that day for the same reason.

http://ozreport.com/2013USNationalsrules.php
2013 US Nationals at Big Spring, Texas

2.0 EQUIPMENT

Appropriate aerotow bridles

Competitors must use appropriate aerotow bridles as determined by the Meet Director and Safety Director and their designated officials. Bridles must include secondary releases (as determined by the Safety Director). Bridles must be able to be connected to the tow line within two seconds. The only appropriate bridles can be found here:
http://OzReport.com/9.039#0

and:
http://ozreport.com/9.041#2.



Pilots who have not already had their bridles inspected during the practice days must bring their bridles to the mandatory pilot safety briefing and have them reviewed. Pilots with inappropriate bridles may purchase appropriate bridles from the meet organizer.

Weaklinks

Pilots must use weaklinks provided by the meet organizers and in a manner approved by the meet organizers. All weaklinks will be checked and use of inappropriate weaklinks will require the pilot to go to the end of the launch line to change the weaklink.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8394/8696380718_787dbc0005_o.png

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.ushpa.aero/compcalendar.asp
Competition Calendar - Sanctioned Events

Big Spring - U.S. Hang Gliding Nationals
USHPA Sanctioned HG Race to Goal National Championship & Open Distance Comp - AT
Big Spring, Texas
2013/08/04-10
Organizer: David Glover
- http://www.endlessthermal.com
- david@davidglover.com

So for a USHPA sanctioned national championship competition...

I'm not allowed to:
- aerotow:
-- two point
-- with:
--- an FAA legal range weak link of my choosing
--- a tug weak link that's legal if I fly at one and a quarter Gs or up
- know what weak link I'll be allowed to use until the morning of the competition
- have a weak link on the towline end as specified by FAA aerotowing regulations
- use a release which:
-- allows me to blow tow with both hands on the basetube
-- makes the slightest pretense of complying with any performance standards
-- doesn't have a well documented record of mangling and killing people

I can still be forced up on a loop of 130 pound Greenspot which:
- puts me just barely up into the legal range on the one point I'm being forced to fly
- would put me below the legal range if I were allowed to use a safe tow configuration

I have to have my towing equipment "inspected" and deemed "appropriate" or "inappropriate" by a bunch of stupid pin bending pigfuckers - who've made careers out of suppressing every effort made in the course of the past two decades to improve towing technology - based on no standards whatsoever beyond the whims of the aforementioned stupid pin bending pigfuckers.

And if they determine that my equipment:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8305308635/


is "funky shit" I've gotta purchase the cheap bent pin shit:





that they make or traffic at whatever price they feel like asking.

You motherfuckers cite a single sport in the civilized world that would tolerate that degree of grotesque conflict of interest, corruption, and total contempt for the safety of the competitors.

[Tad Eareckson]

I don't know how I managed to miss or forget this:

http://ozreport.com/9.182
Arlan

Davis Straub - 2005/09/05

Two very unnecessary deaths.

Peter Birren - 2005/09/05

It is with a sad and heavy heart that I report Arlan Birkett and a student died Saturday evening, September 3, during a tandem flight at Hang Glide Chicago. Arlan's family in Madison, Wisconsin has been contacted with the news and arrangements will be forthcoming.

From the south end of the NS grass runway, John Licata saw the takeoff. Arlan was towed to the north, across low power lines and a highway, then appeared to have a major problem with the glider. At a height of about 250 feet, the glider turned 180 degrees and, John says, fluttered to the ground like a wounded bird, tumbling and spinning as opposed to a so-called lawn dart. The impact was in a corn field north of the airport. The student's girlfriend was present and was interviewed by the police.

A few possible scenarios and situations can be imagined but they are only speculative. The description, however, seems to point to some sort of a structural failure. More information and suppositions will be available tomorrow when the wreckage is thoroughly inspected.

Arlan and Hang Glide Chicago were just this month featured with a nice two-page article in Hang Gliding & Paragliding Magazine. Arlan had been an instructor for about ten years (longer?) and contributed greatly to a sport he loved so much.

Angelo Mantas - 2005/09/05

I'm stunned. I'm having a real hard time processing this on a personal level. Last year Mike, then another good friend and former HG pilot was killed last month in a motorcycle accident. Now this.

I have very little info on this. Apparently the glider got off line, then the weak link broke at the tug. This happened around 250 feet, according to the tug pilot, Gary Solomon. Despite the altitude, it sounds like they impacted at a fairly steep angle, although this information is third hand. John Licata witnessed this, but didn't want to talk about it anymore, which is understandable since he also witnessed Mike Haas' crash.

Given the time of day, conditions should have been smooth. There are some thoughts pilots have shared with me, but they are pure speculation so I won't mention them at this time. John and Kris Grzyb are supposed to look over the glider tomorrow.

Arlan was a great guy. He was involved with banking, but walked away from that to start a HG business because that's what he wanted to do. When I got recertified as an instructor last year, instead of seeing me as competition, he thought it would be good to have someone around to do hill training, and gave me an old but airworthy trainer. His efforts gave lots of pilots a great place to fly or just hang out. His quiet demeanor and droll wit will be sorely missed.

Nathan Martin - 2005/09/05

Easily the best man I've ever met died today and his student barely older than I (20s). Arlan Birkett and Jeremiah died on impact today around roughly 6-6:30 PM. Apparently what can only be described as a freak accident occurred. The glider got out of whack and wasn't corrected soon enough, this progressed into a lockout. At this point no one is yet sure why, but it is known that the weaklink failed to break (250lb) and as far as we understand the tow rope broke (400+ pound test) they were at a high angle of roll and had no time to recover. This all occurred immediately after takeoff and they couldn't of been higher than a few hundred feet.

I had known this man nearly six years of my life and had never witnessed anything less than great respect and kindness to all he knew. Jeremiah was in his twenties, I believe, and was thought to be a slick pilot by other instructors and was expected to solo. Both will be missed greatly and the holes in our hearts will take some time to mend.

Davis Straub - 2005/09/05

(Editor's note: These are very preliminary observations. Guy Denney will be writing up a report and sending it to Joe Gregor and hopefully to the Oz Report. Recent reports indicate that there was apparently no problem with the tandem glider in advance of the lockout. I have asked Guy the following questions:

How heavy was the student? How heavy was Arlan?
How many flights did this student have before this flight?
How long was the tow rope? Was it longer than the regular rope used for towing regular pilots? Was it 300 feet long?
Could the tandem have hit the prop wash? Was the tandem below the tug?
Did Arlan have extra handles on the down tubes to allow him to have extra control (like they do here at Cloud 9)?
What was the strength on the tandem side of the weaklink? Was it stronger than the tug side weaklink?

Arlan used an over/under style harness and the student pilot was on the bottom.

Dissection to follow.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/9.182
Arlan

Davis Straub - 2005/09/05

Two very unnecessary deaths.

Quite unlike what I'd be calling yours and Rooney's.

And Zack Marzek's - although not terribly deserving - was the most necessary one this sport has ever seen. Only possible way we could really get our point across and start breaking hang gliding free from Donnell's bullshit "Infallible Weak Link" tyranny.

Peter Birren - 2005/09/05

It is with a sad and heavy heart that I report Arlan Birkett and a student died Saturday evening, September 3, during a tandem flight at Hang Glide Chicago.

- At the conclusion of one, actually.

- How sad and heavy was your heart when you heard the report about Zack Marzec dying Saturday afternoon, February 2, 2013 at the conclusion of a solo flight at Quest Air Hang Gliding? I was really looking forward to some of your comments and insights on that one.

Arlan's family in Madison, Wisconsin has been contacted with the news and arrangements will be forthcoming.

From the south end of the NS grass runway, John Licata saw the takeoff. Arlan was towed to the north, across low power lines and a highway, then appeared to have a major problem with the glider.

There were THREE people who had a major problem with the glider - two of whom were severely affected by it. And there was no "appeared to" about it.

At a height of about 250 feet, the glider turned 180 degrees and, John says, fluttered to the ground like a wounded bird, tumbling...

Fluttering AND tumbling?

...and spinning as opposed to a so-called lawn dart.

Fluttering AND tumbling AND spinning? What does one do to a glider to get it to flutter, tumble, and spin down 250 feet from a slow tow in evening air?

The impact was in a cornfield north of the airport.

Well, I guess we can count it as a safe tow for Hang Glide Chicago then - as everyone was just fine when they cleared the airport.

The student's girlfriend was present and was interviewed by the police.

A few possible scenarios and situations can be imagined but they are only speculative.

I got time. Go ahead and imagine and speculate.

The description, however, seems to point to some sort of a structural failure.

Really? What sort of structural failure? What sort of structural failure has there EVER BEEN that:
- could account for those kinds of results
- would not be:
-- fairly obvious to witnesses on the ground
-- easily identifiable upon examination of the wreckage

Is that the best you can do with your imagination? What was your second best idea? Something to do with a meteorite or the CIA?

The only structural failure we know about was the connection between the tug and the glider.

More information and suppositions will be available tomorrow when the wreckage is thoroughly inspected.

No it won't, Peter. This is the most information and supposition we're ever gonna get. And in another half dozen years we're still gonna be listening to crap like:

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=818
Peter (Linknife) Birren

Peter Birren - 2011/11/27 02:13:08 UTC

No, I'm not going to comment on Arlan's accident and you really ought to quit as well because neither you nor I were there. The difference is that you have no trouble talking out your ass about that which you know nothing about.

from total assholes like you.

Arlan and Hang Glide Chicago were just this month featured with a nice two-page article in Hang Gliding & Paragliding Magazine.

Yeah, Hang Gliding & Paragliding Magazine just LOVES to feature nice two-page articles about great flight parks and the great people who run them. And it's got so many nice two-page articles about great flight parks and the great people who run them that it never seems to be able to find the space to print articles about - let alone addressing - problems like THIS:

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=1245
bad tow

T.B. - 2007/01/17 03:08:33 UTC

Just got my new glider..(Horizon ET April 2005)..Started flying in 2004 at Hang Glide Chicago (Arlan Birkett..Instructor....Some of you may have known him)
...
I reach to hit the release and accidently push the release on the outside of the down tube "shit" at this point i was at a bank angle of about 75 dg still high up on the left (thank god for secondary). When i pulled the secondary the glider was at 90dg , i kept the bar pulled in and followed through the turn loosing 350 ft almost instantly.. (glad i had the altitude).

When i landed one of the pilots on the ground told me "I was 100% shure you were going to go inverted"

Arlan had been an instructor for about ten years (longer?) and contributed greatly to a sport he loved so much.

Including three deaths in the space of fourteen months and eight days. And T.B. was killed - for the purpose of the exercise - within that period.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/9.182
Arlan

Angelo Mantas - 2005/09/05

I have very little info on this. Apparently the glider got off line, then the weak link broke at the tug.

Then you actually have some fairly important info on that. You/We know that...

- If aborting the tow was the right call that call was not executed by the student, the instructor, or the tug driver.

- The decision to abort the tow was made and executed by a piece of fishing line.

- The weak link configuration was out of compliance with:

-- USHGA aerotow equipment requirements which state:

The weak link at the tow plane end of the towline should break with a towline tension approximately 100 pounds greater than the glider end.

-- the FAA aerotowing regulations that we now know went into effect for hang gliders twelve months prior which require:

--- a glider weak link of a minimum of eighty percent of the gliders max certified operating weight - which, for this North Wing T2 is 518 pounds so 414

--- a tug weak link of over 414 (would've been nice if the douchebags had specified a reasonable percentage over) and not over 25 percent of that so (back up to) 518

This happened around 250 feet, according to the tug pilot, Gary Solomon.

And all this time I'd been thinking that the tug driver had never been identified.

Well, not too surprising. Try the following Google search:

"Gary Solomon" "Arlan Birkett"

One return - this Davis Show entry.

Compare/Contrast with:

"Mark Frutiger" "Zack Marzec"

"About 79 results"

Despite the altitude, it sounds like they impacted at a fairly steep angle, although this information is third hand.

If the glider was tumbling how:
- the fuck is altitude gonna have any bearing on the issue?
- could the angle be much shallower than perpendicular?

John Licata witnessed this, but didn't want to talk about it anymore, which is understandable since he also witnessed Mike Haas' crash.

So just how many Hang Glide Chicago patrons DON'T have nasty cases of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder?

Given the time of day, conditions should have been smooth.

Has there ever been the slightest hint of a suggestion that things were otherwise?

I just went to:

http://www.almanac.com/

and got the records for that day for Morris Municipal Airport, about a dozen miles to the southeast, and the wind min / max sustained for that day was 3.11 / 7.00 miles per hour.

There are some thoughts pilots have shared with me, but they are pure speculation...

Yeah? So?

...so I won't mention them at this time.

Why the fuck not? You've identified them as speculation, we know they're speculation, is it a USHGA Class 1 Felony to publicly express an idea or likely or possible scenario as to why something may have happened? In hang gliding what's the ratio of people killed as a consequence of public speculation to people killed as a consequence of no public speculation?

John and Kris Grzyb are supposed to look over the glider tomorrow.

Great. So we should be hearing about this structural failure that sent the glider off of a slow tow into a fluttering, tumbling, spinning terminal plummet and wasn't apparent to anyone watching from the ground. I can hardly wait!

Arlan was a great guy. He was involved with banking, but walked away from that to start a HG business because that's what he wanted to do. When I got recertified as an instructor last year, instead of seeing me as competition, he thought it would be good to have someone around to do hill training, and gave me an old but airworthy trainer. His efforts gave lots of pilots a great place to fly or just hang out. His quiet demeanor and droll wit will be sorely missed.

It sounds like he was a nice guy. But he towed Mike Haas up on 2004/06/26 on known shit equipment which wouldn't have allowed him to either get off of or stay on tow in accordance with his decisions and the flight ended in a fatal lockout and/or stall.

And we know that before his Rooney Link kicked in he was healthy and had an intact glider. And we know that a second or two after his Rooney Link kicked in his Litesport 149 was a crumpled heap and he was dead. And we now know that the minimum legal weak link for that glider was 248 pounds and his was 22 pounds / nine percent short of that.

And you show me where Arlan ever participated in any discussions about doing this job right. Shoddiness ain't OK just 'cause it's the norm - especially for the people running the operations, driving the tugs, and doing the instruction - because the people on the downwind end of the strings are trusting with their lives the information being put forth and the equipment that's putting them in the air.

[Tad Eareckson]

Picking up from:

http://www.kitestrings.org/post4808.html#p4808

We have...

Lieutenant-Colonel Gilles Le Bras

The hang glider with its two passengers was towed by an ultralight. Shortly after takeoff the glider stalled at a height of twenty meters.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=33048
Luis Rizo

Davis Straub - 2013/07/23 16:23:46 UTC

Jonny told me a lock out right off the cart.

http://centre.france3.fr/sites/regions_france3/files/styles/top_big/public/assets/images/2013/07/22/accident_42.jpg?itok=Ck9fOxFj


48°13.021', 1°29.794'

Stalled at a height of twenty meters and locked out right off of the cart are not compatible.

It's real hard to stall on aerotow but real easy to stall when you've just solved your lockout problem or right after the:
- weak link increases the safety of the towing operation; or
- tug fixes whatever's going on back there by giving the glider the rope.

We know that the thermal conditions were good so a lockout was a fair possibility.

Twenty meters is a real good altitude to have a real good release.
- If you're real low and get a thermal induced lockout a real good release may not do you any good.
- As you climb beyond twenty meters a real good release starts decreasing in importance.

So it will/would be fairly interesting to see what kind of release was being used IF this was a lockout.

But I'm SO HOPING this was weak link induced stall.

- Weak link induced stalls are almost always a lot less serious than low level lockouts but they're about a thousand times more common and, on the rare occasion, can be just as deadly.

- We:

-- have a dead former national champion and a two thirds dead politician's daughter - both of whom look like they were cast by Hollywood.

-- can't swap in Rooney and Lauren so we'll hafta make the best of what we have.

- It would be TOTALLY FUCKING AWESOME if we could chalk up 2.67 very photogenic deaths to Hewett Links increasing the safety of towing operations in the space of 171 days.

(I wonder if they have diables de poussière invisible in Eure-et-Loir.)

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=33048
Luis Rizo

Davis Straub - 2013/07/23 16:23:46 UTC

Jonny told me a lock out right off the cart.

Hey Davis...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks

Davis Straub - 2013/03/06 18:29:05 UTC

You know, after all this discussion I'm now convinced that it is a very good idea to treat the weaklink as a release, that that is exactly what we do when we have a weaklink on one side of a pro tow bridle. That that is exactly what has happened to me in a number of situations and that the whole business about a weaklink only for the glider not breaking isn't really the case nor a good idea for hang gliding.

I'm happy to have a relatively weak weaklink, and have never had a serious problem with the Greenspot 130, just an inconvenience now and then.

What's:

- a good G rating for lockouts right off the cart? It's pretty obvious that theirs was WAY too high.

- Bobby Fucking-

http://ozreport.com/12.081
Weaklinks - the HGFA rules

Davis Straub - 2008/04/22 14:47:00 UTC

At the 2008 Forbes Flatlands Greenspot for the first time was used as the standard weaklink material (thanks in large part to the efforts of Bobby Bailey). We applaud these efforts to improve the safety of aerotowing by using a better weaklink material.

Genius Bailey have to say on this one?

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/9.182
Arlan

Nathan Martin - 2005/09/03

Easily the best man I've ever met died today...

Guess you never met Doug Hildreth before he died on 2009/07/21. It's cinch you didn't have any appreciation for any of the work he was trying to do to make this sport safer - like advocating releases that allowed pilots to release.

...and his student barely older than I (20s).

32. 1973/02/21-2005/09/03

Arlan Birkett and Jeremiah died on impact today around roughly 6-6:30 PM. Apparently what can only be described as a freak accident occurred.

Yeah, Nathan, whenever people sit on and distort information and mislead people about nasty hang glider crashes they can only be described as freak accidents. We just had another freak aerotowing accident at Quest on 2013/02/02. Best as we can figure the guy was experiencing the normal tailslide and whipstall inconvenience associated with a nose high Rooney Link pop when the glider went into a tumble. We figure maybe he ran into an invisible dust devil on the way down.

The glider got out of whack and wasn't corrected soon enough, this progressed into a lockout.

Must've been using a stronglink. An appropriate weak link of 1.5 inches or less will break before the glider can get too far out of whack - let alone before it can progress into a lockout.

At this point no one is yet sure why, but it is known that the weaklink failed to break (250lb)...

- Lemme help y'all out with this one, Nathan...

-- The reason a weak link fails to break is 'cause the tension doesn't reach its breaking strength.

-- We keep trying to tie fishing line with different knots so that it will hold and break according to what's best for us at any given moment but we're not quite there yet.

-- Maybe after two or three more fourteen page magazine articles by Trisa we'll get things right but until then if you wanna get off tow in an emergency it would probably be a good idea to pull your release.

-- This, of course, assumes that you're not using one of the piece o' shit Quallaby Releases Arlan was hauling at Hang Glide Chicago which result in so much control loss that you might as well stay on tow until either the weak link:
--- breaks:
---- and:
----- leaves you with enough altitude to pull out of the stall
----- doesn't leave you with enough altitude to pull out of the stall
---- the millisecond after you slam into the runway

- 250 pounds my ass.

-- Nobody in hang glider aerotowing has clue as to what:

--- weak link breaking strengths are - everything is expressed in terms of strands of 130 pound Greenspot

--- a weak link IS, and thus what an appropriate strength is - people just copy what Quallaby is doing because they assume that Quallaby knows what the fuck it's doing

-- When Mike Haas was killed the reports all referenced "the weak link". We know that it wasn't:

--- lighter than a Rooney Link because - even in hang glider aerotowing - nobody's ever been stupid enough to want the safety of the towing operation increased any more than it is already.

--- heavier than a Rooney Link because, if it had been, that would've been THE REASON he had been killed and we'd have never heard the end of it from all the 130 pound Greenspot shitheads.

-- You're not specifying whether that's "250 pounds" direct loading or towline - and that suggests to me that you don't know the difference or how it could matter. A 250 pound:
--- towline weak link wouldn't get a tandem off the ground
--- bridle end weak link would've put the glider at 435 pounds

-- My call is that they were using the same two hundred pound double loop of 130 that everyone else does - 348 towline.

...and as far as we understand the tow rope broke...

Great!

-- Let's assume that the glider actually WAS using a 250 on the bridle and thus flying at 435 pounds / 0.84 Gs.

-- According to USHGA aerotowing regulations:

The tow line must be at least twice as strong as the weak link in use.

the towline was required to have been a minimum of 870 pounds.

...(400+ pound test)...

Bullshit. Eighth inch braided Dacron leechline is 505 pounds. Assuming you spliced the ends and eliminated the strength reduction you'd be lucky to get a solo off the ground more than once or twice - if that.

...they were at a high angle of roll and had no time to recover.

They were at a high angle of roll and / because they were tip stalled.

This all occurred immediately after takeoff and they couldn't of been higher than a few hundred feet.

The only thing that gets to a few hundred feet immediately after takeoff is a model rocket.

I had known this man nearly six years of my life and had never witnessed anything less than great respect and kindness to all he knew.

In aviation you show respect and kindness best by adhering to appropriate standards and using the best equipment you can acquire and/or develop.

Jeremiah was in his twenties, I believe, and was thought to be a slick pilot by other instructors and was expected to solo.

So do you think maybe that when Mike Van Kuiken says he watched him get pretty low on the tow...

Mike Van Kuiken - 2005/10/10

I saw that Jeremiah was doing the takeoff right from the start and I watched him get pretty low on the tow as the tug crossed the road at the end of the runway.

...that maybe the problem was actually that the fucking tug got pretty high on the glider whose job it was to get to altitude safely?

Both will be missed greatly and the holes in our hearts will take some time to mend.

Any thoughts on anything that could be done to reduce the chances of another freak accident like this from happening again? If there was just one thing you could change about this flight what would it be?

Oops. Never mind. That would involve SPECULATION. And the guys with the engines, dump levers, and really safe weak links at the front end of the string...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec

Jim Rooney - 2013/02/28 01:17:55 UTC

Well said Billo
I'm a bit sick of all the armchair experts telling me how my friend died.

Ah but hg'ers get so uppity when you tell them not to speculate.

...really don't like it when the people at the back end of the string speculate.