You are NEVER hooked in.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=4127
Failure to hook in

Robert Burgis (BudRob) - 2013/08/23 16:07:48 UTC

In a strong wind launch, my (frowned upon) technique is to leap into the air on the second step while pushing out.

And just prior to a strong wind launch, your (widespread and highly proclaimed) technique is to hold the glider down on your shoulders to keep it from floating up to the suspension stop and into the dangerous turbulent upper level jet stream.

I call this my "superman" launch and I have done it my whole flying career when the wind is above 15-20.

Pretty tough to hold a glider down on your shoulders when the wind is above 15-20.

In this case the glider just pulled itself out of my hands as I pushed out and I fell back onto the ramp before reaching the end.

What if you had just let it float up...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doe_sNB1wbg


...before accelerating from the beginning of the ramp?

The pulling away from me was so strong that there was no doubt what the issue was a no decision to make.

Right. AFTER you're at the point at which getting yourself beat up and totaling your glider is looking like a pretty good option.

I fell back to earth before the end of the ramp and the loose dirt provided a soft impact that caused no additional damage to my still healing left foot.

What did you do to your left foot and how did you do it? {Please let it be the result of really nailing a no stepper in the middle of the Kagel putting green.)

However my forward motion took me over the edge and I went over head first.

Good thing you weren't flying McConnellsburg, Lookout, Henson, Whitwell... huh?

This is where I sustained the injury to my left hand and wrist, which although still swollen, is much improved this morning. There are marks on my helmet and I also found a slight bruise on my right thigh. Otherwise the only additional injuries were to my pride and my bank account.

Glad it wasn't any worse. Great wake-up call, wasn't it?

I was concerned about where the hell the glider was (maybe still flying?) so I stood up and looked around right away, but saw nothing. I had to be shown where the glider ended up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mX2HNwVr9g
Hang Gliding Fail
andyh0p - 2011/04/24 - dead
03-0325 - 06-0511
http://live.staticflickr.com/65535/13512258445_6b5a3662d0_o.png

http://live.staticflickr.com/65535/12931220073_1609b59b17_o.png
http://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52378864885_3b8ca2da8c_o.png

http://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52378864870_2129572e3a_o.png
18-0919 - 21-1025

I only wish I could have seen it plow in. It seems to me that I deserved that much satisfaction for the entertainment that I provided. But no, I didn't get to see it; and surprisingly even Jonathon has no video to show me...

And, not the least bit surprisingly "Pre Flight Safety for Hang Gliding - Revision" star NMERider doesn't have a single goddam useful comment on this one.

NMERider - 2013/08/23 19:23:50 UTC

Yes that makes me very sad. Had I left the camera to record stills while struggling at the end of the ridge I would have surely caught your glider in free flight. What I saw from a quarter mile away was Rob having a great launch with his glider immediately climbing out.

Then I saw Rob make this magnificent swoop back at the hillside with his glider's shadow rapidly approaching the glider. Then I shuddered as I saw Rob and his glider pile in below the PG ramp and then turtle.

Ya know what makes me really shudder, Jonathan?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7NurwKyyEE

I then assumed...

...that Rob was connected to his glider. Big surprise.

...it had actually been another blown launch from the reconfigured ramp and the glider was really in a mush the whole time.

I didn't learn until five minutes later (from Jim) what had happened. It's funny how things appear one way and then you watch the video and find out it was nothing like your memory told you.

Yeah Jonathan...

George Whitehill - 1981/05

The point I'm trying to make is that every pilot should make a second check to be very certain of this integral part of every flight. In many flying situations a hang check is performed and then is followed by a time interval prior to actual launch. In this time interval the pilot may unconsciously unhook to adjust or check something and then forget to hook in again. This has happened many times!

If, just before committing to a launch, a second check is done every time and this is made a habit, this tragic mistake could be eliminated. Habit is the key word here. This practice must be subconscious on the part of the pilot. As we know, there are many things on the pilot's mind before launch. Especially in a competition or if conditions are radical the flyer may be thinking about so many other things that something as simple as remembering to hook in is forgotten. Relying on memory won't work as well as a deeply ingrained subconscious habit.

In the new USHGA rating system, for each flight of each task "the pilot must demonstrate a method of establishing that he/she is hooked in, just prior to launch." The purpose here is obvious.

Rob Kells - 2005/12

Several pilots have launched unhooked after doing a hang check because they were distracted and unhooked from the glider, and then, remembering having done a hang check earlier, they ran off the hill unhooked.

"Knowing" that if you are in your harness you must be hooked in, means that if something comes up that causes you to unhook for any reason, you are actually in greater danger of thinking you are hooked in when you are not. This happened to a pilot who used the Oz Method for several years and then went to the training hill for some practice flights. He unhooked from the glider to carry it up the hill. At the top, sitting under the glider with his harness on, he picked up the glider and launched unhooked. Fortunately he was not hurt... but I bet he was very surprised.

Memory can be real problematic every now and then for people playing this game. That's why we have RULES...

With each flight, demonstrates a method of establishing that the pilot is hooked in just prior to launch.

...that people really need to follow - regardless of what their douchebag instructors like:
- Joe Greblo
- Rob McKenzie
- Matt Taber
- Steve Wendt
- Jim Rooney
- Paul Voight
- Ryan Voight
- Tom Galvin
are and aren't teaching them.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=4127
Failure to hook in

George Stebbins - 2013/08/23 22:41:43 UTC
Palmdale

I'm glad you are ok Rob. Sorry about the glider. (But happy that it was the glider and not you that got trashed.)

Be carefull out there, and look out for your friends.

Ya know, George...

I saw that you had posted and thought, "FINALLY - One of those Sylmar/Grebloville douchebags is gonna say something halfway intelligent about a hook-in check."

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15337
unhooked take off clip

George Stebbins - 2010/02/16 21:36:38 UTC

I've known Tad a long time. Tad often annoys me. I frequently disagree with him. But I think he's (mostly) right here. A lift-and-tug (what Greblo calls a "hook in check", as opposed to a "hang check.") is a low cost, high reward tool. Using it is a simple decision. And when you can't do it for some odd reason, you should get a red flag that says to do something else to (temporarily) replace it. BTW, there's nothing wrong with using other stuff too, including the above mentioned visual check, and a hang check. But never assume you are hooked in. Another way (which doesn't check your leg-loops) is to turn 45 degrees or so, reach back and grab the 'biner and look at it, while leaning forward to put pressure on the hang loop. Then give it a good yank to be sure the 'biner is in the hang loop and locked. Then turn around, pick up, level and go... Of course, the T&H is more immediate, but doesn't check the "partial hook-in" issue.

The key point that Tad is trying to make in his annoyingly prolific and pedantic fashion is the assumption made. Always assume you aren't hooked in except immediately after you've checked it. After a few seconds, you have to assume you aren't hooked in again. If you know you are, you are at risk. I've been known to mutter under my breath as I walk to launch : "I am not hooked in, I am not hooked in." Hey, it can't hurt! (And I've been caught doing it louder than under my breath a time or two...)

He's not saying to get rid of your other methods. Just to add this one and change your assumption that you are hooked in. (As annoying and strained as the gun analogies were, I think they might be apt.)

I suspect that if everyone ignored every item on this thread except the "Always assume you are not hooked in unless you just checked it 1 second ago" then there'd be fewer FTHI accidents. But hey, what do I know. I'm sitting in front of a computer typing into this overused thread instead of out flying. I can't be all that smart.

And now back to your regularly scheduled "It isn't flyable, what can we argue about now" dead-horse conversation.

But...

Be carefull out there, and look out for your friends.

You can rot in hell.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=29786
Failure to hook in - (Kagel)

michael170 - 2013/08/24 04:50:23 UTC

http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=4127

NMERider - 2013/08/24 05:16:08 UTC

Just ten months after this thread on the topic:

http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=3638

Yeah.

http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=3638
FTHI

Steve D - 2012/10/25 06:23:16 UTC

An article by Tad Eareckson:

http://www.energykitesystems.net/Lift/hgh/TadEareckson/FTHI.pdf

Mike Blankenhorn - 2012/10/26 02:39:07 UTC

Wow, I never saw it put quite like that before. Great write up!

Markus Schaedler - 2012/11/23 00:06:55 UTC
West Hollywood

Nice article - thanks for sharing.

And just five months after this thread on T** at K*** S******:

http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=3840
[TIL] About Tad Eareckson

Orion Price - 2013/03/11 15:12:28 UTC

Final bit of troll food, I read about Tad's reputation this morning.

Tad Eareckson is a generally discounted crackpot and internet troll. He doesn't fly and has been perma-banned from most everywhere: .org, oz report and all the local club websites with discussion forums like ours.

Mike Blankenhorn - 2013/03/12 03:57:34 UTC

Suicide is highly under rated, Tad should try it, but no wait he's lost his balls!

Mike Blankenhorn - 2013/03/12 16:07:44 UTC

We should bury this thread and not give Tad the satisfaction that we are actually wasting our time acknowledging his existence. Yes, this needed to be brought into the light but now we should bury this asshole with some nice cold dirt (metaphorically) and never speak of him again.

And just a couple years after this thread on the topic:

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=822
US Hawks Hook-In Verification Poll

Sam Kellner - 2011/11/07 03:31:00 UTC

For everyone who obsesses over being hooked in or not, get a flippin rear view mirror and attach it under the nose plate,
simple enough.

Bob Kuczewski - 2011/11/07 05:42:59 UTC

Sam, you are quite a genius!!

And just three years after this thread on the topic:

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=17603
Some [maybe old] thoughts about Failure to Hook In

Bob Kuczewski - 2010/06/09 21:24:48 UTC

I gave some serious thinking to a simple battery/LED circuit that would go through a jumper that could only be shorted by a little tiny connector attached to your harness. So the only way to complete that circuit (and light the LED) was to have that connector attached. The launch rule is very simple. You don't launch unless the LED is lit. In the simplest configuration, the LED just stays on throughout the flight, but if battery drain is an issue, you could have a way to disconnect the jumper after launch. For a few pennies more you could even have it on an electronic timer (555 or similar) so it goes out after 10 minutes. The basic system would cost less than $5 and just be an LED, resistor, batteries, wire, jumper, jumper pins, and tape. The timer system might cost another $5 at most. There are lots of variations that include a switch on the harness or some other means to turn it on and off.

Keep thinking, and keep posting. There's nothing wrong with that!!

And just eight years after Bill Priday's unhooked launch death this article on the topic in response:

Rob Kells - 2005/12

My partners - Steve Pearson and Mike Meier - and I have over twenty-five thousand hang glider flights between us and have managed (so far) to have hooked in every time. I also spoke with test pilots Ken Howells and Peter Swanson about their methods (another five thousand flights). Not one of us regularly uses either of the two most popular methods (hang check and Aussie) outlined above. Each of us agrees that it is not a particular method, but rather the fear of launching unhooked that makes us diligent to be sure we are hooked in every time before starting the launch run.

And just thirty-two years after this article on the topic and amendment to the SOPs to deal with the issue:

Hang Gliding - 1981/05

Just Doing a Hang Check is not Enough
Article and photos by George Whitehill

The point I'm trying to make is that every pilot should make a second check to be very certain of this integral part of every flight. In many flying situations a hang check is performed and then is followed by a time interval prior to actual launch. In this time interval the pilot may unconsciously unhook to adjust or check something and then forget to hook in again. This has happened many times!

If, just before committing to a launch, a second check is done every time and this is made a habit, this tragic mistake could be eliminated. Habit is the key word here. This practice must be subconscious on the part of the pilot. As we know, there are many things on the pilot's mind before launch. Especially in a competition or if conditions are radical the flyer may be thinking about so many other things that something as simple as remembering to hook in is forgotten. Relying on memory won't work as well as a deeply ingrained subconscious habit.

In the new USHGA rating system, for each flight of each task "the pilot must demonstrate a method of establishing that he/she is hooked in, just prior to launch." The purpose here is obvious.

So what's your freakin' point?

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luZYnZ9pkds
ka-boom

periergopoulos - 2012/03/28

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luZYnZ9pkds

WARNING: I use Wondershare AllMyTube for Mac (currently 4.3.1) to download/archive all videos referenced on Kite Strings. This one jammed up the app and I had to spend an hour or two relaunching, rebooting, reinstalling, manually uninstalling, rereinstalling before I was able to get running again. Seems to be safe enough to watch but it'll be a long time before I make another attempt to download it. (Think I'll run it by Wondershare and see if they know / can figure out what's going on.)
---
Edit - 2013/08/30 00:38:00 UTC

Gave it another shot off of another partition of my hard drive. Downloaded without incident.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=977
Flight Log (all flying-related activities welcome)

Bill Cummings - 2013/08/23 20:56:31 UTC

Hawks,

And enemies of Hawks...

I "Turtled my glider to the left of launch at Dry Canyon, 8-21-13 Wed.
My 2004 Wills Wing Sport 2 155 sq ' received it's first damage of torn leading edge sail cloth due to an improper landing. This is somewhat unique since the landing was not proceeded with a launch. I'll get back to that.

I still have the original downtubes on this glider but I do have some under surface sail cloth damage from improper packing.

The VG pulley on the top of the right downtube rubbed a hole in the right wing undersurface while in the glider bag and on the vehicle rack. (Rack Rash).

I turned down side wire launch assistance and only went with a noseman assist.

If I was gonna turn somebody down it sure wouldn't have been a sidewire guy.

A thermal started lifting my right wing while the base tube was still on the ramp. I told Shamek my noseman, "Down and toward the high wing." I had discussed this with him earlier that while on the nose he could assist me in keeping control of the glider once a wing tip lifted by pulling the nose down and toward the high wing. The thermal proved to be too much for Shamek and it drug him toward the east side of our SW facing launch ramp.

See? It's a leverage thing.

I am very thankful that Shamek gave it his all and never let go of the nose wires. If he had lost hold I would have catapulted over my left wingtip and been blown higher up the slight rise behind the ramp and hit going down wind with force great enough to do some horrific damage to glider and pilot (me).

Passenger (you).

What happened was the glider pivoted around the left side of the control bar and then tried to go upside down after the glider had turned 180 degrees.

I unhooked and with Lee Boone on the nose and Shamek on the rear flying wires we were able to get the tail down and spin the glider around 180 degrees into the wind and step back up onto the ramp. I checked the tubes and they were okay but the sailcloth near the nose was scuffed up. (Time for my sail tape.)

After looking over the glider I hooked in and joined Robin Hastings in the air.
Some pilots would have let go rather than be flung on their back and pinned by the nose of a glider but not Shamek. He saved the day from a possible totaling of a glider and a pilot. YOU-DA-MAN SHAMEK! THANK YOU
So there you have it. A day that gave me two landings and one launch.
P.S. I won't be turning down extra launch assistance in the future. That's all it would have taken to not get turtled.

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=822
US Hawks Hook-In Verification Poll

Bob Kuczewski - 2011/11/20 15:34:25 UTC

With regard to the primary topic, Tad's "MANDATORY" rule includes the modifier "if you can physically do it". He doesn't say "if you can safely do it". There's a big difference - sometimes a life and death difference. His 2011/10/24 post mentions difficulty using lift-and-tug in "light or nonexistent air", but he doesn't want to recognize the difficulties with that technique in strong and dangerous air. That's why I've suggested that if we do adopt a "lift and tug" regulation, it must include a clause allowing pilots to use their own judgement in determining whether it's safe to use that method in each circumstance.

Bill Cummings - 2011/11/20 15:38:33 UTC

Great effort there Bob!
I can just picture you pecking away with one hand all the while the other hand with the ban button finger on it is tied behind you back.

Bob Kuczewski - 2011/11/20 15:52:52 UTC

At this time, I'm thinking that maybe the "Building the US Hawks" forum should be limited to people who show that they are really interested in building a new national organization and who can use effective communication skills in doing that. How does that sound to everyone?

Tad Eareckson - 2011/11/20 20:28:30 UTC

Bob Kuczewski - 2011/11/20 15:34:25 UTC

There's a big difference - sometimes a life and death difference. His 2011/10/24 post mentions difficulty using lift-and-tug in "light or nonexistent air", but he doesn't want to recognize the difficulties with that technique in strong and dangerous air.

That's because in strong and dangerous air responsible pilots use adequate crew and anybody stupid enough to put himself in a position in which ten pounds of tension on the suspension will push him over the tipping point is a threat to himself, his glider, my glider in the setup area, the site, pets, parked cars, baby strollers, and the power supply to the valley below. And he deserves whatever happens to him. And the gene pool and teaching of Darwinian evolution in seventh grade biology classrooms will be WAY better off for it.

Go fuck yourself, Bob.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=29786
Failure to hook in - (Kagel)

Dave Boggs - 2013/08/26 20:43:57 UTC

Silly humans will never learn.....
Why would one want to launch a glider not hooked in ? The sport is dangerous enough..
I know lets make safety cards..... signs on launch.....all sorts of check systems..... or maybe a device or electronic gadget that can negate our desire to do something stupid.....


Silly humans

Jim Steel - 2013/08/26 21:17:40 UTC

[RANT] Here we go again. Don't climb in, or out, of your harness unless it's hooked into the hang loop. BTW, always do a full-laydown hang check.

OK motherfuckers... Let's, as usual, studiously ignore the:

- records of catastrophic failures that occur in and as consequences of Aussie Methodist and hang check cultures and the mindset that anyone standing on launch is assumed to be hooked into a glider

- data on environments and conditions in which it's dangerous to be:
-- hooked in approaching launch and/or for longer than the minimum possible time
-- entering the harness when it's connected to the glider

- fact that neither the Aussie Method nor the hang check ensure engaged leg loops

- thirty-two year old USHGA regulation mandating verification of connection status JUST PRIOR TO LAUNCH

- blindingly obvious logic and success record of the assumption that the pilot is NOT hooked in on launch and a verification as close to commitment as safely possible

and say that implementation of the idiot fucking Aussie Method would forever end the unhooked launch problem.

When Tiberiu asks about how to tie a two point aerotow release onto his keel...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=29771
keel tow point

...you keyboard pilots admonish him not to listen to keyboard pilots and ONLY accept counsel from his highly trained USHGA certified AT instructor at the flight park.

So how come every last one of you Aussie Methodist keyboard pilots feels qualified to advise everyone on how to prevent unhooked launches? Why aren't you referring people to their highly qualified USHGA certified foot launch instructors...
- John Alden
- Greg Black
- Gordon Cayce
- Pat Denevan
- Greg DeWolf
- Mark Dowsett
- Tom Galvin
- Joe Greblo
- Eric Hinrichs
- Jeff Hunt
- Sam Kellner
- Mark Knight
- Rob McKenzie
- John Middleton
- Dennis Pagen
- Jim Rooney
- Mitch Shipley
- Matt Taber
- Sunny Venesky
- Paul Voight
- Ryan Voight
- Bruce Weaver
- Steve Wendt
- Mark Windsheimer
...the USHGA, HPAC, BHPA, HGFA SOPs, the positions of their Regional Directors, or the instructions in their Wills Wing, Moyes, Aeros, Seedwings, UP owners' manuals?

The facts are that there is not ONE SINGLE North American:
- school, instructor, commercial entity teaching and/or advocating this approach
- club or site requiring or even encouraging this approach
- national organization official willing to lift a finger to implement this approach

And you keyboard pilot motherfuckers need to ask yourselves why this is the case - and has been for over 27 years - and start dealing with the situation if you sincerely believe you have THE solution.

But you won't - exactly the way you won't acknowledge any:
- of the downsides, limitations, failures, dangers of this approach
- value of any form of hook-in check just prior to launch and the USHGA SOP mandating one

A lot of what I've just said about your idiot fucking Aussie Method also applies to the hook-in check but...

- It IS a USHGA regulation - and has been for over 32 years.

- NOBODY has ever made the slightest effort to have it revoked (compare/contrast with what happened to the AT regs immediately post Marzec).

- It is, for all intents and purposes, a bulletproof solution - people who use a hook-in check routine do not launch unhooked.

- The only downsides to hook-in checks are manufactured by total fucking assholes like Bob Kuczewski who have strong political motives for maintaining the standard kill rate.

- The primary reason that it isn't allowed to be implemented, endorsed, or discussed is because the success it would achieve would bring The Industry's decades of criminal negligence into direct sunlight and dazzlingly sharp focus.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=4134
The New Kagel Launch - Safe, Neutral, or Unsafe?

Steve Murillo - 2013/08/26 16:44:56 UTC
Manhattan Beach

Ladies and Gents,

I've been hearing a lot of comments and critiques from pilots regarding the new launch at Kagel. Some say it's too steep and there's a twist to it. Some say they like the steepness. Others are neutral about it.

I'd like to use this forum to get your opinion. Please participate.

Vrezh Tumanyan - 2013/08/26 21:20:31 UTC

Sorry, Steve, don't think this is a good idea.

Steve Murillo - 2013/08/28 13:47:49 UTC

I can appreciate your opinion, Vrezh.

Nonetheless, I think it is important to gather a general, anonymous poll to see what the club is thinking about the new ramp and the launch conditions it presents.

The ramp was made steeper, which is better for the blades in no to low wind conditions, but could be creating problems for the lower performance and entry level gliders.

Let's see what the club thinks.

And you believe you've got a club CAPABLE of thinking?

Douglas Martens - 2013/08/29 03:53:04 UTC
Reseda

I like the raised left part of the launch because in the past two times I have had to run down that side when hit by turbulence right when I start my run. The way it is now there is less chance to catch a wingtip on brush should I have to run that direction again.

JT and I had a conversation about the putting a launch on top of a chimney when the top of a spine was nearby. But then again this launch has a good twenty to thirty year record.

After the rains hit we can try an airflow test. The launch conditions could now be caused by brush growth since that is no longer a constant since the launch was altered.

The safest launch would be engineered to rotate on a turret and with selectable ramp curvature with a hydraulic system.

Before it was smoothed some I saw some comp gliders with wiremen that were not happy with the robust conditions.

Given what just happened eight days ago at the other ramp DO make sure you've got one of Rebar Dan's "HOOK IN!" plaques:



installed at the end of the approach. Hell, install two or three...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1079
$15 pacifiers

Jim Rooney - 2005/09/20 13:11:43 UTC

I know of at least one pilot out there that flies with two caribiners. His logic makes more sense to me... you can't have too many backups.

You can't have too many backups.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=29786
Failure to hook in - (Kagel)

zamuro - 2013/08/26 22:31:02 UTC
New York

I recommend the Aussie method to avoid being in the situation shown in the picture.

And I recommend the fucking Aussie Method 'cause it creates a mindset/climate in which:

- everyone assumes everyone's hooked in on launch

- nobody ever verifies that anyone's hooked in on launch

- I can get really cool videos like this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mX2HNwVr9g
Hang Gliding Fail
andyh0p - 2011/04/24 - dead
03-0325 - 06-0511
http://live.staticflickr.com/65535/13512258445_6b5a3662d0_o.png

http://live.staticflickr.com/65535/12931220073_1609b59b17_o.png
http://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52378864885_3b8ca2da8c_o.png

http://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52378864870_2129572e3a_o.png
18-0919 - 21-1025

- if I'm lucky somebody will get killed and there will be five or six weeks of really amusing discussions by people who are incapable of grasping the concept of a hook-in check

In this particular case the pilot did a hang check...

- I didn't see him do a hang check.
- There are two types of people who do hang checks. Thems what:
-- need to check clearance due to a new glider/harness combo
-- total morons

...after and had an amazing flight as in many other times I am sure. See:

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=29756
Oahu hang gliding

That's Makapu'u Point. NOBODY:
- is an idiot fucking Aussie Methodist
- approaches launch hooked in
- assumes anyone approaching or preparing to launch is hooked in
- launches unhooked

If you wanna see unhooked launches go to Grebloville where, prior to approaching launch EVERYONE has:
- done a hang check
- reviewed the Five Cs (whatever the fuck they are)
- done a walk-through
- turned around and checked to make sure his carabiner is:
-- properly connected to the main and backup
-- locked
or thinks he has anyway.

However, It makes me nervous just to watch somebody so close to launch and not hooked-in.

FUCKIN' FANTASTIC!!! If JUST ONE MOTHERFUCKER at launch is NERVOUS about the issue an unhooked launch WILL NOT HAPPEN. The problem at Mount Woodside on 2012/04/28...

http://www.hpac.ca/pub/img/memorial_Lenami_Godinez-Avila.jpg


...was that NOBODY was NERVOUS. EVERYBODY was relaxed, happy, looking forward to another GREAT DAY.

It doesn't take much to forget that last hang-check.

My LAST CHECK is my ONLY CHECK - asshole. And it happens EVERY TIME the instant before my foot moves and not before. I've got this brain disorder which causes me to forget anything and everything that happened more than two seconds ago. Be thankful you don't have it - it always makes me scared shitless just prior to launch. (On the other hand, however, it ensures that I'm never scared shitless just AFTER launch.)

Specially with other distracting factors present such as a go-pro camera etc.

Yeah, dickhead. That's why we've got a fucking regulation which states:

With each flight, demonstrates a method of establishing that the pilot is hooked in just prior to launch.

You're supposed to do it whether or not you've adjusted your goddam camera.

Dave Boggs - 2013/08/26 23:05:49 UTC

Didnt want to say it but
Thats what I do :green:
Who checks you if you are the last one on the hill.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9G8ERElpjM

13-03110
http://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3697/13700915564_87a2a336b0_o.png


http://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2912/13700562685_86575e9220_o.png
14-03129

where there is no one to hear you scream .....or call 911

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjsp0mH7m0Y

It is part of the aircraft, I hate it when pilots walk around wearing the thing like its apparel ,then pick up their glider and walk to launch ....then may or may not ask for a hang check....... Not my job to make sure you dont kill yourself....

- In a supposedly "self regulated" sport it bloody goddam well IS.

- And how much of a burden is it to look at somebody's hang strap long enough to determine if there's a carabiner connected to it?

- Think you're gonna have a fun day boating around while a dozen of your buddies are scrambling down the slope and directing the chopper into position?

- But if it's NOT your job to make sure one of your buddies doesn't kill himself then what the hell are you doing preaching Aussie Methodism here?

I have big enough problems worrying about me( Oh and the safety nazis knock off the "do you want a hang check "no" You should really do a hang check 'NO" ......... I have been the last off the hill more times than I care to count, its my ass and my system seems to work ....CLEAR

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wL00UefQqZA


That doesn't entitle you to flagrantly violate about the only good regulation our shit national organization has ever committed to paper.

roarkk - 2013/08/30 17:49:14 UTC
Atlanta

Resource tree

I'd love to hear thoughts from other pilots that have read (the majority of) the following link:

http://www.energykitesystems.net/Lift/hgh/TadEareckson/FTHI.pdf

http://www.hanggliding.org/wiki/HG_ORG_Mission_Statement
HG ORG Mission Statement - Hang Gliding Wiki

HangGliding.Org Rules and Policies

No posts or links about Bob K, Scott C Wise, Tad Eareckson and related people, or their material. ALL SUCH POSTS WILL BE IMMEDIATELY DELETED. These people are poison to this sport and are permanently banned from this site in every possible way imaginable.

tldr;

Yeah... To long; didn't read... with the semicolon in the wrong place. Don't bother with the whole article. It's been a bit over sixteen months since Lenami. We should be killing someone again before too much longer. Then you can read another five thousand posts about hang checks, the Aussie Method, the Five Cs, plaques, ideas for gadgets, mirrors, focus, and watching out for each other - all of lengths ideally suited to your ten second attention span.

All that is required is that AT THE INSTANT of one's decision to launch, one lifts the glider until it stopped...

Crap. How did I manage to miss that one?

...rising and feels the tugs on the leg loops, which are the elements that limit the connected glider's upward travel. Interestingly, this resistance check is done by EVERYBODY anyway. It's just that it is done by the vast majority of people just after they leave the ramp, rather than immediately prior to the rest of the launch sequence.

Why the fuck do you give a rat's ass what the other Jack Show dregs "THINK" about the article? Do the goddam lift and tug if you're not sure you're hooked in or skip it if you have a great memory and are POSITIVE you're hooked in.

Just be advised that every single asshole who's need to be scraped off the rocks below launch - bar NONE - had a great memory and was POSITIVE he was hooked in.

OK Tom, your turn. Tell him how lift and tug gives a false sense of security and he's much better off just running off the ramp. Maybe Ryan will crawl out of the woodwork and back you up on that one.
---
P.S. Overwidth photos - like the first one in this post - get displayed with their right sides chopped off. The full width, however can be viewed by zooming out from the page (Command - (minus) on a Mac) or opening the image in a new page (or, obviously, downloading it).

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=29835
About that hang check thingy...

Jim Steel - 2013/08/30 20:18:42 UTC
Washington

About that hang check thingy...

We know all about that goddam hang check thingy...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1153
Hooking In

Steve Kinsley - 2005/10/02 02:45:48 UTC

When Bob Gillisse got hurt I suggested that our local institution of the hang check is more the problem than the solution. I still believe that. It subverts the pilot's responsibility to perform a hook-in check. I often do not see pilots doing a hook-in check. Why should they? They just did a hang check and they are surrounded by friends who will make sure this box is checked.

DO A HOOK IN CHECK. You need a system that you do every time regardless of how many hang checks you have been subjected to that assures you are hooked in.

It is THE most prominent cause of unhooked launches - PERIOD.

Several years ago an excellent local pilot launched unhooked...

BULLSHIT. Excellent pilots do not launch unhooked.

...and survived with injuries. Everything appeared correct on preflight...

BULLSHIT. He didn't check EVERYTHING on preflight. If he had it wouldn't have APPEARED CORRECT.

...and the harness and biner were attached to the hang strap.

No they weren't.

I'm not sure but I believe after climbing into the harness (attached to the glider)...

The harness was NEVER attached to the glider.

...the pilot walked forward, turned around, and inspected the biner.

I'll bet the 'biner was fine.

The pilot did not do a laydown hang check...

What other kind of hang check is there?

...although many other pilots were available to do so.

Who cares? Barring situations requiring wire crew a pilot physically capable of foot launching should be able to get himself off the slope unassisted.

A neoprene sleeve around the harness and parachute straps hid the fact the parachute loop was on the biner but not the harness strap!

Bummer. Sometimes you've gotta open things up or pull things back to check for problems - especially after repairs, overhauls, replacements, dis- and re-assemblies. If that's too goddam much trouble then find another hobby.

When nobody is present to help do a hang check I sometimes prop the keel on something to so I can put some weight on the assembly.

And as long as you can put some weight on the assembly you're good to go.

Leonard Rabbitz, Lynn Smith, Philip Sidener, Tom Sapienza put full weight on their assemblies, did not subsequently disconnect prior to launch, and fell to their deaths shortly after becoming airborne. The Columbia got everybody into orbit and flew all but the final few minutes of its mission just fine.

There IS NO CRITICAL SUSPENSION ISSUE that can't be more easily, quickly, better detected by a visual inspection than by a goddam hang check.

Better safe than...

But that's not the big issue. The big issue is that ALL hang checkers use hang checks to partially or completely assure themselves that they're safely hooked in so they can stop worrying about launching unhooked and start focusing on getting off the hill. And that's the best strategy for quickly killing oneself that exists in this sport.

2013/08/31 02:55:39 UTC - 3 thumbs up - NMERider

Get fucked, Jonathan. This issue is way out of your league - and always will be. Stay the hell out of it.

Fletcher - 2013/08/31 02:35:56 UTC

No need to prop the keel, just lie down with glider setup on keel and basetube.

Turn around and look at the goddam suspension.

NMERider - 2013/08/31 07:26:25 UTC

Not if the hang strap is short. If alone and with the glider resting on the keel do a walk-through and lean forward hard. That should allow upwards of fifty pounds on the support system which is enough to expose most weaknesses.

Yeah Jonathan, most weaknesses that become problematic at a bit upwards of fifty pounds - which, if you hook in at a bit upwards of two hundred pounds, is a bit under fifteen percent of what you're probably gonna encounter on a thermal flight.

And if you do a halfway reasonable visual inspection you can easily detect problems that would only be problems if you pulled half a dozen times the loading required to destroy the glider.

thermalfinder's post exposes a serious hazard of reserve bridle covers that may extend too close to the biner.

Bart Weghorst's post exposed the serious hazard of using a Bailey "designed" bent pin piece of shit as an aerotow release.
Carlos Weill's post and Mike Haas's death exposed the serious hazard of putting release lever on a downtube.
Zack Marzec's death exposed the serious hazard of using a loop of 130 pound test fishing line as a pitch and lockout limiter.
Ljubomir Tomaskovic's death exposed the serious hazard of coming in upright with hands on the downtubes in gusty conditions.
George DePerrio's death exposed the serious hazard of using a hang check as verification of safe hook-in status.

So how come decade after decade we don't see shit in the way of any kind of sane response to the serious and obvious hazards exposed in this sport?

AND, Jonathan, a "reserve bridle covers that may extend too close to the biner" is NOT a serious hazard. Somebody who:
- reconnects a carabiner to a parachute bridle only
- doesn't check connection before running off a ramp
- depends on a hang check to verify his connection and its integrity
is a serious hazard - but, fortunately, only to himself and not to the gene pool.

2013/08/31 07:35:15 UTC - 3 thumbs up - fly,surf,&ski

Idiot.

Note... I've decided that the language needs a bit of reworking/definition.

Rob Kells - 2005/12

My partners (Steve Pearson and Mike Meier) and I have over 25,000 hang glider flights and have managed (so far) to have hooked in every time. I also spoke with test pilots Ken Howells and Peter Swanson about their methods (another 5000 flights). Not one of us regularly uses either of the two most popular methods outlined above.

The ONLY legitimate reason to suspend oneself under a glider at any time prior to a foot launch is to check clearance - which is no fuckin' way a significant safety issue. Someone who does that is performing a CLEARANCE check.

A HANG check is intended as a critical safety check to ensure that the pilot will be safely connected to his glider when he runs it off the ramp, it accomplishes the precise opposite, and there's NEVER a legitimate reason for doing one.

Using a hang check to ensure that you'll be safely connected to your glider when you begin your launch run is PRECISELY analogous to using a Rooney Link to increase the safety of the towing operation.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=29835
About that hang check thingy...

Steve Baran - 2013/08/31 13:07:59 UTC
Chattaroy

Wondering .... has anyone used a small bicycle handlebar mirror on a DT to check their suspension system in flight or while doing a hang check?

Yeah...

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=822
US Hawks Hook-In Verification Poll

Sam Kellner - 2011/11/07 03:31:00 UTC

For everyone who obsesses over being hooked in or not, get a flippin rear view mirror and attach it under the nose plate,
simple enough.

Bob Kuczewski - 2011/11/07 05:42:59 UTC

Sam, you are quite a genius!!

The Bob Show Guys have been working on that approach for the better part of two years. With all that genius concentrated in that one little niche of the hang gliding landscape the developments they've undoubtedly made must be freakin' FANTASTIC! I'll bet they've got little cameras installed inside the double surface and linked to a Head Up Display so you can do as shit a job you did preflighting your suspension preflighting the stuff in the sail - cross spars, leading edge sections, cable anchors, bolts, locknuts - and find bends, dents, cracks, kinks, frays, missing parts waiting for a good cycle on the ramp or on long glides between thermals.

I have no problem checking mine before flight...

I have no problem checking anything of mine that matters - with the possible exception of the actual link to the glider - before I leave the goddam setup area. And I'm a total fuckin' airhead.

And if I develop any doubts about anything that matters I can run a(nother) check in a matter of several seconds at any time before I commit.

...but I wouldn't mind being able to better see as much of my total line arrangement from carabiner down.

1. And I wouldn't mind being able to see as many of tomorrow's winning lottery numbers as possible.
2. What is it that you think you need to see from the carabiner down that:
- matters; and
- you're finding so difficult to inspect and cross off the list during preflight?

Maybe even a small mirror placed high on a DT and extended forward enough, near the keel or a bit to the side of it, to view the suspension while a pilot is standing and ready to launch.

Good idea! Sounds pretty simple, easy, cheap to implement. Get back to me when you've actually done it.