instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

[Tad Eareckson]

http://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5517/14036301121_17849a6a04_o.png
7-14522

[Steve Davy]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?p=150666&highlight=#150666
pro tow set-up

Jack Axaopoulos - 2009/11/09 14:44:23 UTC

AT, your continual bashing in general and bashing of HG schools has gotten really old. AT parks have solid safety records, so what you say and reality seem to be quite far apart.

Tad, your continual bashing in general and bashing of HG schools has gotten really old. AT parks have solid safety records, so what you say and reality seem to be quite far apart.

[Tad Eareckson]

Yeah, but it's a whole lot harder to shut me up over here.

P.S. Thanks zillions for finding that photo in my previous post of Shannon...

http://ozreport.com/14.092
Flying into the ground

...about to take her last flight and first XC out of Quest. A real treasure.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uswqd-Ijtp8


Good job, Mike. Reminds me a good bit of this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMsIkAOeJ0I


So what happens if he's doing this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jm-YPa_Gvdw

10-03323
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2928/14397296584_1d0e5e389b_o.png


...when one of your piece o' shit towline splitters vaporizes or...

http://vimeo.com/48762486


...piece o' shit releases "works"?

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=27044
Here's a scary one for ya!

Don Arsenault - 2012/09/05 01:09:41 UTC
Toronto

It was not a weak link break, and I don't believe the release touched the control bar. I got a crap release. That's all there is to it.

I never ever had a double release on any of the training harnesses. When I switched to the spaghetti, and bought this release, it double released on me all the time, but I usually don't transition until at least two hundred feet, so it's always been a nonevent. Annoying, but a nonevent.

An inconvenience.

I told them there was something wrong with the release, and they didn't believe me.

They believed you - but it was cheaper to keep fucking you over than it was to deal with the issue.

Thought I was too new, and it was my technique.

And they were only too happy to let you think there was something wrong with YOU - rather than to start realizing there was something seriously wrong with THEM.

Until this flight. The release just let go. My hands never left the downtubes, and it did not touch the base bar. It was the final straw.

Why? The situation was still manageable.

If I let the video keep rolling, you would have seen me quickly lose my cool, and yell and curse and march into the office to demand a new release.

Started showing some promise of becoming a pilot when you did that.

I got one, and my next flight went great.

Shoulda stayed on the old one. Flying release which lets go at random is an excellent way to acclimate yourself to towing with a Rooney Link.

My instructor is a legend in towing...

And...
- Dennis Pagen and Bill Bryden are the authors of an excellent book on towing.
- Pat Denevan uses state of the art towing equipment.
- Matt Taber is particular about the quality of the product that goes out.
- Quest Air has been perfecting aerotowing for twenty years.
- Jim Rooney has a keen intellect.
- Sam Kellner is quite a genius.
- Lauren Tjaden is an eminently qualified tandem pilot.
- Bobby Bailey is a fucking genius when it comes to this shit.
- Steve Wendt at Blue Sky is the master of the form when it comes to scooter towing.

...and I will always take his advice over any.

Like what?
- What advice is he giving that's contradicted by other operations?
- What's he telling you that's so ethereal you have to take it as advice instead of understanding the underlying theory?
- How dangerous is the advice that other operations and what are you doing to prevent their students from becoming victims?

If this sport wasn't terminally fucked up everyone and his dog would be on the same page and nobody would be talking about rockstar instructors.

He has been towing for longer than I have been alive.

And well over a dozen years than Zack Marzec was alive. Maybe you can fill us in on the advice he gave regarding that ever so mysterious incident.

As Ken De Russy said "I think he was the first one to ever horse tow a Dickenson wing".

He didn't beat Bill Moyes into the air - and that guy's a major asshole too.

I'm learning from Michael Robertson.

Then you're gonna learn what Michael Robertson wants you to know of what he knows. And he's the asshole who was quite content to keep putting you up on a...

Manned Kiting
The Basic Handbook of Tow Launched Hang Gliding
Daniel F. Poynter
1974

"The greatest dangers are a rope break or a premature release." - Richard Johnson

...dangerously defective release.

Those of you who know him know what I'm talking about.

No shit.

But that doesn't mean I don't appreciate all the comments and criticism, it gives me something to think about and discuss with Michael.

Why doesn't he cut out the middleman and get on the forum himself? Is he afraid that he'd get ripped to shreds as soon as he started...
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec

Jim Rooney - 2013/02/16 23:18:54 UTC

Naw... You want me to make bold black and white statements so that you can have a go.
Unfortunately that's not what you're getting.
Some people listen with the intent of understanding.

Others do so with the intent of responding.

...putting things down in black and white?

Keep it coming everyone.

EVERYONE...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=25302
Interview with Davis Straub, OzReport founder

Jack Axaopoulos - 2012/02/24 15:00:21 UTC

The "Extremist 1%" is not allowed on this site.

...isn't allowed to engage in the discussion. Were that not the case Mike not fare as well as he does.

Joe Greblo

Safety is a book, not a word. - Michael Robertson

OK Mike... Now you kiss Joe's ass and together you can so much more effectively delude the masses into thinking that you big name dinosaurs give flying fucks and have everything under control.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-bRrpHNa68iY/UQ6Pv9gRZyI/AAAAAAAAjTg/Hc22bx5122Q/s2048/20943781_BG1.jpg


P.S. Nice find, Steve.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=32318
Lock Out

Alan Deikman - 2013/06/03 20:56:58 UTC
Fremont

That picture...

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-9Ek9_lFeSII/UZ4KuB0MUSI/AAAAAAAAGyU/eWfhGo4QeqY/s1024/GOPR5278.JPG
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3725/9665623251_612b921d70_o.png

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Xh_NfnOcUns/UZ4Lm0HvXnI/AAAAAAAAGyk/0PlgrHfc__M/s1024/GOPR5279.JPG

...will give me nightmares.

Not me.

- With a two point bridle and bulletproof release system I can totally prevent that from happening.

- And with a THE weak link in the system - at the front end - being one that can just about always get a heavy tandem to altitude in bouncy air, odds are really good I'm gonna be able to survive that bullshit as well. No solo has ever been seriously crashed by the focal point of the tug's safe (dangerous) towing system.

Here's the photo:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7509/15659143120_a9aae8f7bd_o.jpg


that scares ME totally shitless. Reminds me a lot of this one:

http://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1613/26193142206_c44e7bbf8b_o.jpg


A little squeeze of which any five year old is easily capable and...

Some total fucking asshole like THIS:

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
weak links

Jim Rooney - 2007/08/01 13:47:23 UTC

Whatever's going on back there, I can fix it by giving you the rope.

can be WAY more effective at...

Donnell Hewett - 1980/12

Now I've heard the argument that "Weak links always break at the worst possible time, when the glider is climbing hard in a near stall situation," and that "More people have been injured because of a weak link than saved by one."

...dumping me at the worst possible time, when I'm in a near stall situation.

I've never been crashed as a direct consequence of a Rooney Link. I HAVE BEEN crashed as a direct/sole consequence of a fucking asshole (Mike Robertson (see above)) applying a dump lever when what I REALLY needed was throttle.

Here's what Steve Master-Of-The-Form-When-It-Comes-To-Scooter Towing Wendt at Blue Sky and Standard Aerotow Weak Link Zombie In Good Standing has to say about the dump lever:

Wills Wing / Blue Sky / Steve Wendt / Ryan Voight Productions - 2007/03

NEVER CUT THE POWER...



Reduce Gradually
Increase Gradually

And note that probably the only tow related crash he's had at Blue Sky - totaled glider, nearly totaled pilot - occurred when his idiot tug driver:

CUT THE POWER.

Manned Kiting
The Basic Handbook of Tow Launched Hang Gliding
Daniel F. Poynter
1974

"A bad flyer won't hurt a pin man but a bad pin man can kill a flyer." - Bill Bennett
"The greatest dangers are a rope break or a premature release." - Richard Johnson

Until the early Eighties anyway.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=29984
What happened to the org?

Terry Strahl - 2013/09/23 23:06:16 UTC
Modesto


What happened to the org?

Nothing. It's always been a shit heap - and always will be - at best.

I miss what the Org was two years ago ..

Hang gliding gets dumber every day...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=29948
im ready too believe

Brad Barkley - 2013/09/17 15:06:33 UTC
Frostburg

This site gets dumbed down more and more every day.

...the mainstream forums will inevitably follow suit.

don' t get me wrong. There is some good advice and Great pilots lurking in the back ground on the Org.But lately... Damn! I hope this trend is short lived and returns to its former glory ...

Wanna do something to help the situation a little? Learn to write at a third grade level.

Winter is coming so I would have to guess its only going to get worse before it gets better.

It WILL get worse - and NOTHING will reverse that trend. There's no fucking way in hell that the crap Trisa writes could've appeared in the magazine thirty years ago and the more shit you let them get away with the more shit they're gonna feed you.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=29965
Blay video

Dontsink - 2013/09/20 05:59:51 UTC

The amount of self righteous BS that can be spewed from a keyboard is infinite.
No wonder the really good pilots avoid these forums like the plague.

Name some really good pilots and tell me just what it is they're doing for the sport and its participants.

2013/09/24 00:45:36 UTC - 3 thumbs up - Glenn Zapien

Steve Baran - 2013/09/24 01:25:54 UTC
Chattaroy

We're too busy flyin' and drinkin' beer! Plus, BobK not here livening things up!

Fuck BobK.

Jack Axaopoulos - 2013/09/24 02:34:03 UTC

Just checked google analytics. Traffic this year is at an all time high.

Great Jack! Really amazing what kind of numbers you can get when you eliminate people with unpopular positions from the discussions.

zamuro - 2013/09/24 02:48:11 UTC
New York

I don't know if you use the quote as evidence of the forum decay or because you agree with what it says. In any case that quote was a response to somebody that advised against flying at high speed close to the ground. So this particular example seems like quite an appropriate discussion to have in a HG forum.

Anybody wanna discuss what can happen to a tandem aerotow instructor flying SOP at a hundred feet with a pro toad bridle and Rooney link in normal soaring conditions? Just kidding.

Jack Axaopoulos - 2013/09/24 03:02:19 UTC

I think the self-regulation experiment has run its course.

WHAT "self-regulation experiment"?

Hg.org 2.0 will be launching this year with major changes in the site and the rules.

PRETENSE...

http://www.hanggliding.org/wiki/HG_ORG_Mission_Statement

Please treat the admin as a regular user. As long as you follow the rules, there is NO CHANCE you will banned because you disagree with the admin. The admin would like to be part of this community too without having to walk on egg shells because people think his word holds more weight for whatever reason. It does not. But the admin will do his job as moderator when he has to. But please follow the rules and don't make him do it, he doesn't enjoy that part.

...of rules.

Brad Barkley - 2013/09/24 03:40:14 UTC

I'm with deep. Two years ago, this place was part of my daily education.

- What did you learn that your asshole instructors:
-- failed to teach you
-- taught you wrong

- If your aviation education is not yet complete what makes you so dead sure that anything and everything that T** at K*** S****** has to say needs to be totally and immediately suppressed?

Now when I come here, most the time the top threads are some bullshit about global warming or global cooling or gun-control or the Constitution or some other crap, and that's not why I come here.

It must be really horrible for you to have to read through all those discussions in which you have no interest.

I'm glad that hang gliding 2.0 is going to involve some rule changes.

Probably something along the lines of banning discussions about global warming and thousand year floods in eastern Colorado and compelling people to discuss hang gliding issues in which they have no interest and/or have no capacity to understand. And maybe he'll drop the rule forcing you to read every word of every post of every discussion on every topic in which you have no interest.

2013/09/26 20:06:31 UTC - 3 thumbs up - Matt Christensen

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=29984
What happened to the org?

NMERider - 2013/09/24 04:08:58 UTC

Terry Strahl - 2013/09/23 23:06:16 UTC

I miss what the Org was two years ago ..

I wondering the very same thing today and thinking of starting essentially the same thread and voila! Here it is. Traffic may be at an all-time high but participation is at a five-year low. Hopefully, the participation resumes and exceeds its previous levels.

Not all participation...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=26302
HIGHER EDUCATION ?

NMERider - 2012/06/06 03:25:09 UTC

You are being much too complimentary IMHO. I got so nauseated reading it I had to take a breather. Do you mean to tell me they wrote an article that wasn't insipid and self-congratulatory to the extreme? I've found their entire series on aerotowing to come off rather poorly to say the least. A sad waste of such exalted and highly qualified medical professionals. How do I know this? Well they won't stop patting each other on the back about how great they both are.
Pardon me while I puke.

...is a good thing, Jonathan. You won't find Bob Kuczewski, Sam Kellner, Orion Price, or Dr. Trisa Tilletti participating over here.

I have noticed an increase in posts from outside the US over years past but many of the great comedians and storytellers of years past have become very infrequent posters.

So why aren't they being replaced at the same rate they're dropping out? We really can't afford the luxury of standup landings and shit tow equipment. We also really can't afford the luxury of skipped hook-in checks because, even though most people come through unhooked launches in no worse shape than Robert Burgis did at Kagel a bit over a month ago, WHEN we kill somebody it's really spectacular, people at launch get traumatized, and our public image dips a little farther.

Rick Cavallaro - 2013/09/24 05:47:31 UTC

I can certainly understand why people might get frustrated coming to a hang gliding forum and finding a lot of threads about non-hang gliding topics, but this forum does have an "off-topic" section, and I think that's where all of those threads are. If HG 2.0 has an off-topic section I think you can expect to see things that are - well - off-topic. That's not so much a matter of rule change as it is about format.

And for what it's worth, those things don't prevent anyone from posting questions, answers, stories, and lies about hang gliding. That's your job. Perhaps the answer is to change the format so that "off-topics" never appear on the front page. But I fear you'll simply see less activity then - not more HG content.

Dontsink - 2013/09/24 06:53:00 UTC

I posted this but I would not make a mountain out of it. I wasn't in a good mood and I was kind of harsh, I kinda apologized later.

Sorry SG if I've been unfair...

And with Jack always being so concerned with FAIRNESS.

I do think this is the best HG source of info online.

For the two plus two equals whatever crowd.

But I wish pilots like Jim Rooney and Ryan Voight were around to clear the air when a technique issue shows up.

Here... Lemme cheer you up with one of their Golden Oldies...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=14230
pro tow set-up

Jim Rooney - 2009/11/03 06:16:56 UTC

As for being in a situation where you can't or don't want to let go, Ryan's got the right idea. They're called "weak" links for a reason. Overload that puppy and you bet your ass it's going to break.

You can tell me till you're blue in the face about situations where it theoretically won't let go or you can drone on and on about how "weaklinks only protect the glider" (which is BS btw)... and I can tell ya... I could give a crap, cuz just pitch out abruptly and that little piece of string doesn't have a chance in hell. Take your theory and shove it... I'm saving my a$$.

I think if more of you guys would follow their advice and post some videos there's a real good chance that we would see them once again around to clear the air when a technique issue shows up.

Sure they could be acid sometimes but they did know what they were talking about.

I tend to cut people for whom English is probably not a first language a bit of slack but... Get fucked.

Maybe a technique and incident analysis sub-forum where only a bunch of chosen "wise men" could post answers without being contradicted by dumbos like me would help.

I think you're totally OK...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=14230
pro tow set-up

Jack Axaopoulos - 2009/11/09 14:44:23 UTC

AT, your continual bashing in general and bashing of HG schools has gotten really old. AT parks have solid safety records, so what you say and reality seem to be quite far apart.

...in that department.

With a big enough number of experts there would still be some discussion but amongst equals.

Get fucked.

Choosing those experts and enticing them to participate (they usually lead busy lives and they do not get as much out of the forum as I do) could be a problem.

If you can understand junior high level math and science you don't need any goddam opinions from any goddam chosen high priests.

The above might be a dumb idea...

That characterization doesn't begin to scratch the surface.

...I just brain-farted it...

Do everybody a big favor and reabsorb it.

...in any case I will follow with great interest whatever changes you bring SG.

With ya there, dude.

Thanks!.

Get fucked.

zamuro - 2013/09/24 11:38:57 UTC

I don't think that would be a good idea. It is not that hard after a while to figure out and weight on people opinions.

If you base what you do on opinions and who's saying what you deserve whatever happens to you.

From my point of views I have learned many good things from a variety of contributors but none is always right...

Bullshit. It's math and science, there are ALWAYS right wrong answers on the shit that matters, and none of it's all that complicated. Get respected textbooks from REAL aviation and see how much variation you can find.

...and some seems to be always wrong, but that is OK as long as the threads do not become a vehicle for random personal insults which I believe SG had already some control on.

Yeah. Jack's the Patron Saint of assholes.

On the other hand keeping pure political and unrelated conversations out from the front page from the start would probably be a good idea.

- Yeah, if anything's on the front page everybody will be forced to read it.

- All the major problems of this sport are easy fixes which are perpetually thwarted by USHGA and commercial scum like Ryan, Rooney, Davis, and Jack. So, unfortunately, the political and personal attacks are huge and fundamental parts of the solutions.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=29984
What happened to the org?

Jack Axaopoulos - 2013/09/24 11:54:46 UTC

Actually, I have big plans with the new software that addresses this.

The new forum allows for DISCUSSIONS and for QUESTIONS.

And the old software DOESN'T.

If you start a QUESTION topic, instead of a DISCUSSION topic, then people can respond, and people can upvote the responses. The original poster can ACCEPT an answer. The person who gets their answer accepted gets KUDOS points and their REP goes up... etc. Think StackExchange, for people familiar with that.

There is a lot more incentive for positive posting in the new system. The new site is going to be run more like a professional business and less crap is going to be tolerated.

Biggest load of deadly crap I've ever heard. Well, not really. I've been hearing that deadly crap for the bulk of my career in the sport.

But don't worry, keep pushing things in that direction. Although my favorite thing to do is fix the problems my second favorite thing to do is watch videos of followers of popular opinion getting splattered all over runways and escarpment bases.

Brad Barkley - 2013/09/24 12:49:51 UTC

It becomes a problem when "off-topic" far outweighs "topic" because we have so many posters who come here not for discussion but just to prove how right they are about everything.

And that impacts your flying and ability to discuss it HOW?

The .org, as much as I love it...

I'd be astonished if an asshole of your caliber didn't love that sewer.

...reached that tipping point some time ago.

It was rot at its inception.

Maybe the name now should be "off-topic.org."

"The Jack Show" works for me. That's the most accurate characterization.

As far as my "job," I post plenty of comments and questions about hang gliding, but they end up getting very few responses as they are pushed off the front page by people who, again, don't want to discuss issues but just have a need to be right about everything and prove it to the world.

Take a look over here. I don't think you'll find any of your idiot comments and questions that I haven't thoroughly addressed.

I'd guess low self-esteem drives that need, but I'm no psychologist.

Spend some time with Bob. He's the master of amateur psychologist. Just check the ratio of the volumes he spent psychoanalyzing Yours Truly versus dealing with his boyfriend Sam Kellner splattering Terry Mason off the side of the runway.

Tom Emery - 2013/09/24 14:45:16 UTC
San Diego

I came here about a year ago as a novice flier and a virgin internet poster. Since that time I have garnered a wealth of information from this site.

Good luck.

Yes, there are distractions. What I enjoy is the FREEDOM to exchange information, opinions, dissensions, laughter and tears with a diverse world wide group of dedicated enthusiasts who take the time to discuss topics that I am sure have been discussed before.

- That "FREEDOM" isn't based on or protected by anything remotely resembling rules and can be snuffed by Jack upon any whim.

- That "diversity" doesn't include...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=25302
Interview with Davis Straub, OzReport founder

Jack Axaopoulos - 2012/02/24 15:00:21 UTC

The "Extremist 1%" is not allowed on this site.

...the top one percent, one percent is a HUGE figure - especially when you're looking at a member list with (at present) 10148 entries, and that's really not the layer you wanna target.

This is invaluable to a struggling, fledgling pilot.

Meaning your USHGA instruction and resources totally suck.

Thanks to all of you for helping.

All of THEM for helping. The few people having fucking clues are concentrated over here.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://vimeo.com/71736008
close call

Don Arsenault (Freeflyer) - 2013/08/05 14:46 UTC

After making some adjustments to harness / release, I guess we let the release out a bit too far. It hit the base bar and dropped the tow lines.

http://vimeo.com/71736008


Keep...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=27044
Here's a scary one for ya!

http://vimeo.com/48762486


...racking 'em up, Mike. And make sure you never have any references to tow operation professionalism and equipment on your Charts of Reliability.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://vimeo.com/69376991
vimeo46

Don Arsenault (Freeflyer) - 2013/06/29 16:03 UTC

http://vimeo.com/69376991
[/video]

0:24 - hang check
3:12 - commitment to launch
2:48 - elapsed time

No:
- dolly
- hook-in check
Spreader bar halfway down glider suspension.

I think there's VERY little question that THIS:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/skysailingtowing/message/6406
Hook in failure

Luis Filipe Barradas - 2007/12/16 03:12:38 UTC

Tad and Peter,

I experienced the same accident, but came out only with a broken wrist.

Not accounting for the reasons that allowed me to launch without hooking up...

That's what happened:

Double release (bridle under/over bar) and hydraulic winch, foot launch, hands immediately on the bar, and going up fast, at about 45 degrees angle. The first reaction is to tight the grip, not to release; by the time you blink, you are at twenty-five feet.

One hand out of the bar, and released; could not get the hand back to the bar. Glider banking now to the left. Released the grip of my left hand, on purpose, and fell.

There was not much time for the "what if". Waiting for the 'abort' would take me much higher; I'm not saying that it was the best decision, but it was the one, at that time.

Do not try this at home.

P.S. Yes Tad, you got the translation right; it would never happens if I was using the dolly to take off.

happened in that field on Mike's watch. 'Course there'd be no question whatsoever if Mike Safety-Is-A-Book--Not-A-Word Robertson publicized incident reports. But...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=27044
Here's a scary one for ya!

Don Arsenault - 2012/09/05 01:09:41 UTC

My instructor is a legend in towing...

...then he'd be less of a legend in towing. And this sport is always in desperate needs of legends - seeing as how the reality sucks is much as it does.