You are NEVER hooked in.

[Steve Davy]

I'm glad your article is getting exposure, Tad. But I'll have nothing more to say to the Jack Asshole forum idiots.

[Tad Eareckson]

Steve Davy - 2011/09/16 01:17:47 UTC

These people are just too stupid to deal with. Nothing I say makes a dent.

Tad Eareckson - 2011/09/16 07:56:17 UTC

And this is news?

The point is not to make a dent in them. The point is to get them to open their mouths and say stuff which reveals them to be as incredibly stupid as they are to people who aren't.

Steve Davy - 2011/09/17 07:11:22 UTC

Good point!

The article gets TONS of exposure - but you could probably count the number of people it's gotten to start doing hook-in checks on one hand - and every one of them will have at least twice the IQ of the average glider jockey.

I don't have any delusions that we're gonna be able to...

Zack C - 2012/06/02 02:20:45 UTC

I just cannot fathom how our sport can be so screwed up.

...fix this sport in any substantial way in the English speaking world but:

- we're:
-- doing SOMETHING that's better than NOTHING
-- we're the ONLY ones doing it
- humiliating people is FUN

We humiliated the crap out of Rooney and Davis after Zack Marzec early in the year and I totally guarantee you that we got a few more stronglinks airborne. And you laid the foundation for a lot of the successful attacks in the:

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24534
It's a wrap

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

threads.

The Davis Show...

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1041
"Sharing" of Hang Gliding Information ?!?

Merlin - 2012/05/26 14:22:30 UTC

I confess to previously having a bit of an Oz Report habit, but the forced login thing has turned me off permanently, and I am in fact grateful. Frankly, the site had pretty much been reduced to a few dedicated sycophants in any case.

I've seen many times the destructive consequences of "control freaks".

...is a ghost town - since only Rooney, Fink, Gaar caliber assholes are allowed to freely express their "thoughts".

The Jack Show...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=25302
Interview with Davis Straub, OzReport founder

Jack Axaopoulos - 2012/02/24 15:00:21 UTC

The "Extremist 1%" is not allowed on this site.

Steve Davy - 2013/09/25 02:28:47 UTC

God it's fun to watch Jack Asshole's moronic forum slowly implode.

...is slowly imploding for similar reasons.

And EVERYBODY...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=26302
HIGHER EDUCATION ?

michael170 - 2012/06/06 03:14:26 UTC

Did anyone here bother to read Drs. Lisa Colletti and Tracy Tillman's thirteen page idiotic article in the June issue of USHPA's worthless magazine?

NMERider - 2012/06/06 03:25:09 UTC

You are being much too complimentary IMHO. I got so nauseated reading it I had to take a breather. Do you mean to tell me they wrote an article that wasn't insipid and self-congratulatory to the extreme? I've found their entire series on aerotowing to come off rather poorly to say the least. A sad waste of such exalted and highly qualified medical professionals. How do I know this? Well they won't stop patting each other on the back about how great they both are. Pardon me while I puke.

...hates the magazine - more and more with each passing year.

Most of the people who've posted here - excluding Bob, Christopher, OP, Andreas - have done the sport a lot of good on some scale or other.

And Kite Strings - for what it's worth - is a constantly growing presence that...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec

Kinsley Sykes - 2013/02/11 17:46:12 UTC

Because this has been beaten to death - google Tad Eareckson and try to read the mind-numbing BS. Most of the folks who have been towing for decades have worked this stuff out.

The reason for the vehemence of the response is they pile on to any AT accident, with no knowledge of the cause, and trot out the, if only he had a strong weaklink, nothing would have happened.

It's fine to want to work on better solutions to make us all safer by improving technology, it's ugly and inhuman to use the death of a really nice guy to advance your point... in case it wasn't obvious I agree with Bart and Jim, and no it's not a lack of english comprehension - he said there would have been a different outcome with a stronger weaklink.

...gets a lot of people really pissed off at the most valuable of times.

Do what you can, want, feel like but don't underestimate its value.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=30053
Quit screwing with cameras at launch!

Steve Seibel - 2013/10/03 19:56:41 UTC

Hey since we are talking about launching not buckled up: http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=30048, launching not in leg loops, and other distractions (read: http://www.energykitesystems.net/Lift/hgh/TadEareckson/FTHI.pdf), how about instituting a new practice--

Quit screwing with GoPros or other cameras at launch!

Is it ok to ask someone to verify that your camera (s) is on before you launch?

I suppose, although I'd really rather you weren't thinking about that at this time.

Is it ok to have someone turn your camera on if you forgot? Is it ok to have to talk them through it if they don't know how? Is it better to pull off launch and deal with it yourself? If so, will you climb all the way out of your harness or just unhook?

At the very least please don't PLAN to involve someone else, and don't PLAN to leave it till right before you start your launch run. I've seen several pilots who in the name of preserving battery life and card space, or avoiding editing, don't want the camera to be on as they are walking to launch, standing in line at launch, etc. This is stupid-- trying to remember to tell somone to turn the camera on before you launch is just one more little thing bouncing around in your brain and competing for your attention. Before you start to get into your harness, turn on the camera, and forget about it till after you land. The business of getting into your harness, hang-checking, watching launch conditions, etc should be free as distraction-free as possible.

If you're hang checking - especially after leaving the setup area - you don't know what you're doing.

Forgot to charge the battery, and want to be sure you at least catch the launch?
Too bad! There's always next time.

Not for a lot of people each year.

So quit screwing around with cameras at launch...
End of rant...

Conspicuously without saying anything about hook-in checks.

Mel Torres - 2013/10/03 20:32:26 UTC
Irvine

I turn mine on after preflight. Then I put on my harness and I do a hang check right where I set up my glider. After completing said hang check, while still hooked in I make my way to launch and do another hang check.

All the while the cam is still recording. At this time I can care less about memory card space or battery life.

Or about a hook-in check. 'Cause, hell, you JUST DID two hang checks - so what would be the point?

My intention is to have a fun...

I'm sure it is. My intention is to perform every aspect of the setup, preflight, launch, flight, approach, and landing as competently as possible. I regard any collateral fun as a byproduct.

...and safe flight...

Fuck that. You got killed when you skipped the hook-in check.

...that will out last the memory card...

Especially if a hang checker swallows it.

...and/or battery. Now stop screwing with your cam and launch safely.

Nose low, wings level - and make sure that carabiner's locked.

NMERider - 2013/10/03 23:11:51 UTC

Cameras are good for recording procedural errors during hook-in/harness entry and launch.

Let's not forget...

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-9Ek9_lFeSII/UZ4KuB0MUSI/AAAAAAAAGyU/eWfhGo4QeqY/s1024/GOPR5278.JPG
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3725/9665623251_612b921d70_o.png

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Xh_NfnOcUns/UZ4Lm0HvXnI/AAAAAAAAGyk/0PlgrHfc__M/s1024/GOPR5279.JPG

...towing equipment issues - not that anyone seems capable of actually learning anything from them.

Beyond that they can create needless distraction just by virtue of being on the glider anywhere and recording.

So can totally / worse than useless backup loops and carabiner locking mechanisms.

Luen Miller - 1994/11

After a short flight the pilot carried his glider back up a slope to relaunch. The wind was "about ten miles per hour or so, blowing straight in." Just before launch he reached back to make sure his carabiner was locked. A "crosswind" blew through, his right wing lifted, and before he was able to react he was gusted sixty feet to the left side of launch into a pile of "nasty-looking rocks." He suffered a compound fracture (bone sticking out through the skin) of his upper right leg. "Rookie mistake cost me my job and my summer. I have a lot of medical bills and will be on crutches for about five months."

But nobody EVER...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1079
$15 pacifiers

Jim Rooney - 2005/09/20 13:11:43 UTC

I know of at least one pilot out there that flies with two caribiners. His logic makes more sense to me... you can't have too many backups.

...addresses that issue.

In the old days it was necessary to wait until launch to start the camera due to memory and battery limitations. That is no longer the case. I've gotten pretty surly with pilots who interrupt my pre-flight routine with camera questions that could have been asked other than on launch. That no longer happens and I have fewer "friends" as a result. That suits me just fine. I'm here to write about it.

Zack Marzec - rather uncharacteristically - DIDN'T have a camera or any pilots interrupting his preflight routine and ISN'T still around to write about anything. So any thoughts on who makes the more dangerous equipment product where hang gliding is concerned? GoPro or Cortland?

One pilot from Sylmar was preoccupied with his camera mount and failed to fully insert the base tube into the corner bracket of his Falcon and the glider folded up as he launched.

And so preoccupied with his camera mount that he failed to:
- visually check the connection at any time
- do a:
-- quick preflight walk-around inspection
-- preflight sidewire load test as specified in the owner's manual

All I can say is: Not Worth It!

All I can say is: Bullshit! This crap has been pulled plenty of times with no burden of a camera or any other extraneous bells and/or whistles.

And this happened in the setup area - had absolutely nothing to do with launch procedures or sequences. So you might as well be advising people not to fly with cameras. And that:
- ain't never gonna happen
- would be a real lousy thing for the sport on a multitude of levels if it did
- sounds extraordinarily weird coming from you

Stephen Smith - 2013/10/04 00:02:00 UTC
Rio Vista, California

OH Huh...I missed a pre flight and ground tumbled my glider at Wolf FFFin around with cameras.

You missed a preflight 'cause you didn't do a preflight. Don't blame it on any cameras.

I now get my cameras ready early and check batteries and cards before going up the hill.

1. So?

2. The vast majority of sites we fly - Hearne, El Dorado, Torrey, Kagel, Plowshare, Woodside, Talcott, Dickey, Whitwell - don't have any hills to go up to get to launch position.

I always do my pre flight and harness prep then if there is time i mount cameras and then harness up and turn on the Array before i go to launch Then.

And I'm sure you're every bit as meticulous about your preflight as you are about your writing.

Harness four point, hook in and hang and focus on what really matters!!!

Right. After you've preflighted and established that you're safely connected to your glider in the setup area...

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=802
AL's Second flight at Packsaddle how it went

Rick Masters - 2011/10/19 22:47:17 UTC

At that moment, I would banish all concern about launching unhooked. I had taken care of it. It was done. It was out of my mind.

...you banish all concern about launching unhooked and...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=26996
Critique my radial ramp launch

Ryan Voight - 2012/08/28 01:06:07 UTC

Michael means to kindly recommend doing a hook-in check just prior to launching. Why he didn't just say that, I don't know.

BACK TO THE VIDEO THAT MATTERS-

...focus entirely on the aspects of the launch THAT MATTER.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=30048
I launched with my harness UNBUCKLED

Dan Johnson - 2013/10/05 02:58:43 UTC

As I have said before, I like the number three, (triangles and what not), being the simplest grouping.

Really? Joe Greblo seems enthralled with the number five. Maybe you could compromise on four - take a risk of launching with your Chinstrap unbuckled.

To break down the check lists...

Fuck checklists.

...into groupings of three is the easiest on the brain.

In aerotowing 130 seems to be the number easiest on the brain. In fact the less functional the brain the easier it is. Any way you can work that into checklists - especially the final one at the back of the ramp?

I will have to attempt this with the above information in mind, at some point.

Bummer you couldn't have worked it out prior to 2012/04/28 and gotten it to Jon Orders. Imagine how grateful he would've been.

Preflight = Self + Glider + Harness, Self = Focused + Aware + Disciplined.

Make sure you're wearing at least one of USHGA's little red "FOCUSED PILOT" rubber wristbands.

Or something along those lines, the intent to develope a progressive habit, which would include the site, weather, and flight plan as well.

Something to work on while contemplating fleeing the snow to Phoenix perhaps early next year!

Go fuck yourself.

Greg Porter - 2013/10/05 06:18:04 UTC

Sounds great.

Don't they all, Greg. It's amazing how many outstanding ideas you can get out of a pilot community after eliminating The Extremist One Percent. Pity Sam Kellner...

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=822
US Hawks Hook-In Verification Poll

Sam Kellner - 2011/11/07 03:31:00 UTC

For everyone who obsesses over being hooked in or not, get a flippin rear view mirror and attach it under the nose plate,
simple enough.

...hasn't weighed in yet.

Bob Kuczewski - 2011/11/07 05:42:59 UTC

Sam, you are quite a genius!!

Quite a genius, you know.

When you have it figured, please post it here.

Are you quite sure that will be possible? That sounds like the kind of brilliance and effectiveness that could get him categorized in The Extremist One Percent.

It may click with some pilots better than anything that has been suggested so far.

Isn't it amazing the way we have untold scores of options which may work (but obviously don't) for pilots to ensure they're safely connected to their glider assemblies but just a single flavor of fishing line that works optimally for all pilots to safely connect their gliders to aero towlines. Is this a great sport or what!

Steve Seibel...

Greg Porter - 2013/10/03 05:12:44 UTC

I think what you have here will help many folks.

Dontsink...

Greg Porter - 2013/10/03 14:16:07 UTC

I appreciate the point about anyone having it happen.

deltaman...

Greg Porter - 2013/10/03 14:22:39 UTC

THANKS! This is an excellent summary of potential issues during launch and how to guard against them.

AndRand...

Greg Porter - 2013/10/03 17:49:10 UTC

Thanks for the link to the thread on launching unhooked... all good points there and they are focused on ensuring the harness is hooked into the glider.

Brian Horgan...

Greg Porter - 2013/10/03 19:03:37 UTC

Yep, back on the horse and with the checklist I hope to never repeat that one!

Mark Selner...

Greg Porter - 2013/10/03 19:58:22 UTC

Good point though in calmer conditions.

Tim Dyer...

Greg Porter - 2013/10/03 19:59:59 UTC

Good puts Tim, that process will keep a pilot safe.

Brian Horgan...

Greg Porter - 2013/10/03 20:01:37 UTC

Thanks noman!

deltaman...

Greg Porter - 2013/10/04 13:22:26 UTC

EXCELLENT points on the lift and tug while on launch to be sure you feel the leg loops tight, Deltaman

Paul Edwards...

Greg Porter - 2013/10/04 15:11:07 UTC

Really good point about the aerotowing angle.

Dan Moser...

Greg Porter - 2013/10/04 17:28:16 UTC

Thanks for replying with the experience, and with the 5C checklist. I'm sure it will help someone. Thanks Dan!

Dan Johnson...

Greg Porter - 2013/10/05 06:18:04 UTC

Sounds great. When you have it figured, please post it here. It may click with some pilots better than anything that has been suggested so far.

Is there some special technique you use to condition your nose for sticking it so far up so many asses within so short a timeframe?

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=30048
I launched with my harness UNBUCKLED

Mark Selner - 2013/10/03 19:37:30 UTC
Apple Valley

ill never forget launching with out my leg loops on.i sunk down so low i couldnt get my foot in the harness.i seen a video of a guy flying with out a harness at the beach.so i did a pull up about three times to get my hands up high enough on the tubes to get my feet on the base tube maby if you did this you could of got the chest strap on.maby or maby not.but you might of also flew like this to the landing zone to save the zipper

Mark Selner - 92054 - H2 - 2012/07/28 - Dan DeWeese - FL FSL

Have you seen this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9G8ERElpjM

13-03110
http://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3697/13700915564_87a2a336b0_o.png


http://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2912/13700562685_86575e9220_o.png
14-03129

video, Mark?

Greg Porter - 2013/10/03 17:30:24 UTC

Excellent top landings in your video! What a great way to practice takeoffs and landings in a 'single' glide from top to bottom. Thanks for posting it.

Did you like the "top" landings? Pretty great way to practice takeoffs and landings in a "single" glide from top to bottom, don't ya think?

Fuckin' lunatic asylum.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3UbztgTtsc
I Launched Without Buckling into my Harness - a hang gliding film by Greg Porter

NMERider

Nice PSA Greg! Thanks for producing and posting.

Yeah Jonathan, without Aussie Methodist fuckups constantly violating regulations and screwing pooches just where would this sport be.

Greg Porter

Thanks Jonathan. Not my proudest moment, but hopefully the experience may help others as it helped me... without them having to go through it or worse.

Not a snowball's chance in hell. Every time one of these happens to one of you Jack and/or Davis Show assholes the comments and recommendations just get five or ten percent stupider.

Terry Smith

First thank god it all worked out.

What do you think God was busy with when Kunio...



...ran off Mingus with a dangling carabiner five years minus 28 days earlier?

second Thank you for sharing... you never stopped flying, you understood the situation and adjusted.

Great job, Greg!

Thats another lesson we should all take from this.

Right. This one:

http://austriantimes.at/news/General_News/2009-08-28/15983/German_hang-glider_pilot_makes_fatal_error
William Green - 2009/08/29

German hang-glider pilot makes fatal error

A German hang-glider was killed when he plunged 15 metres to the ground after forgetting to do up his leg straps during a flight yesterday (Thurs (2009/08/28)) in Tyrol.

Local police said the man, 58, took off from a mountain station near Tannheim but was seen clinging onto the hang glider with his hands and with his legs dangling down in front of him, forcing the craft to lose altitude.

They said he was killed immediately when he lost his grip and fell just 200 metres from his intended landing area.

really wasn't enough to get the point across.

BTW I am test flying the same harness Friday ...I will be sure to triple check myself.

Then you can proceed to launch triple confident that you're good to go.

Greg Porter

I predict you will really like the harness. If you have any questions about it just ping me.

That's your go-to guy, Terry. He's flown that thing in two configurations now.

HGAviator

I've seen someone launch unhooked in Sylmar, CA (not Kagel Mtn) back in 1982 it 83. It was not pretty.

How not pretty? It wasn't fatal 'cause it wasn't reported in the magazine. (Back then there were still a few people acknowledging fatalities and trying to do things to decrease their frequencies.)

Glad to see ypyre OK Greg. Thanks for the check list. I was think of make one up. In the USAF and at Boeing were I work they red straps attached to safety pins that read "remove before flight". Anything that reminds if safety which includes preflight hang Check and do one better, I do a post flight check as well.

The flip side of the preflight card Greg stows in his nose cone has the post flight issues pretty well covered:

Side 2

Pilot:
Gregory Sterling Porter
DOB 2/**/**
Blood type A+
Medical Conditions: None
Medications: None
Allergies: None
Doctor Card is in Wallet
Emergency Contact:
- If injury only:
-- *** Porter (wife)
--- ***-571-****
- If worse
-- **** Porter (brother)
--- ***-363-****

Suggestion Greg... If anybody other than you is reading the card you WILL have a medical condition. You might wanna edit that.

Greg Porter

Didn't know you work for Boeing. 30 years with them myself in Integrated Scheduling. If you are in the mood email me through the company email. Glad to hear you've been thinking about a checklist. Somehow I had let even my mental checklist slip. Safe flying to you.

Idiot.

donmthg

Glad you are ok!

He's not. His brain's still only functioning at about five or ten percent of the capacity of your average seven year old.

Thanks for posting this. There is no such thing as a routine launch.

There is for me. They're all scary no matter what.

Something we all need to always remember.

I don't need to remember shit. I'm just always aware of potential consequences. And that awareness is enough to trigger executions of the procedure to make sure those consequences never happen.

Greg Porter

Boy that's right about no routine launches. Also reminds me that the laws of nature are no respector of persons... we can get bit when we break them, even though we think we've 'mastered' a technique or process. One person I've always been impressed with for his caution in launching is Dustin Martin. He just won't go until he is fully comfortable with conditions.

I wonder if he's flying the same fishing line...

Perhaps instead of diving down to the tug the pilots should have just eased in to take the tension off the tow line and then waited for the tug to recover the climb, though the last pilot I towed was Jonny Durand so I figured he would know how to handle it but when he had a weak break I decided to pull out of the tugging.

...as his idiot buddy Jonny.

Thomas Low
Belmont, California

Thanks Greg. I did that once too. I was able to land by hanging on my arm pits. Good job keeping it together, and sorry about your downtubes. Looked like an awesome day.

Thomas Low - 23428 - H5 - 1982/09/27 - George Whitehill - AT FL AWCL CL FSL RLF TUR XC - MNTR

Did you read the article George published in the magazine six months before he signed your Five? If so, why do you think it totally sucked?

SteveLS4

Jeez - livin' on the edge!

Brain on the edge of being able to maintain basic essential life functions.

Now I feel a lot happier about my Moyes Contour harness - no buckles inside. Bit clunky, but if it only saves me once from getting the shit scared outa me (or worse) then clunky is good.

And, of course, there's no way you'd bee able to miss the leg loops or launch unhooked.

And we know you're not doing or planning on doing lift and tug because if you were you wouldn't be counting on the clunkiness of your harness to give you an edge.

Thanks for sharing Greg (better you than me lol)

It would've been better if he'd bought the farm. That would've produced a lot more of the focus he values so highly and prevented him from sabotaging the useful elements of the discussion.

Mike Bomstad

Damn! Glad you are ok & it worked out. (Came very close to launching unhooked this year.

What flavor of hook-in check skipper are you - hang checker or Aussie Methodist? I think you should get together with Sam and talk about the best mirror options.

Have some of my own check lists to revise)

Make sure it's got at least three full Five Cs hang checks on it.

Greg Porter

Will look forward to your story about that offline.

Yeah, let's keep it offline.

So you've got all these Jack show assholes telling you what a great guy you are for making your incident public for the benefit of the sport and your fellow "pilots"... What's that say about Mike?

After I started this checklist I almost left the main sail zipper unzipped.... it wasn't on the checklist.

But, nevertheless, you caught it. Amazing airmanship, dude.

Now it is.

Oh good. Now you can look at the glider, notice that the sail's unzipped, then look at the checklist to see whether or not it's supposed to be.

Constant revision seems to be the theme - especially with getting older I can see my ability to keep all the bowling pins in the air at once is diminishing.

None of this is a juggling act.

- Before you leave the setup area walk around the glider and look at it. If you wanna go totally nuts do the fuckin' preflight sidewire load test like it says in your fuckin' manual.

- When you hook your harness to your glider - whether or not you're in it at the time - make sure your carabiner is fully engaged and closed.

- IMMEDIATELY before you commit to launch do what a lot of pilots will and pick up the glider until you feel the tension on your leg loops to be sure that:
-- you're hooked in; and
-- those leg loops are attached.

I always liked checklists but now must face the fact that they are becoming more of a necessity than an option for me.

Bullshit. You've ALWAYS been too senile to do a hook-in check.

Good to hear from you as always Mike. Fly Safe man.

Yeah, I'll bet you and Mike are the very best of friends. Maybe you could get his take...

http://www.paraglidingforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=28697
Weak links why do we use them. in paragliding.

Mike Bomstad - 2010/01/17 06:54:32 UTC

Here you go I found this:
http://hpac.ca/tow/HPAC_Tow_Manual.asp

3.4.1 - Weak Link Specifications For Hang Gliders

Recommended breaking load of a weak link for surface-based towing is from 100% to 120% of the towed weight. This will usually be approximately 90-135 kg (200-300 lb) for solo operations.

Experienced pilots flying in turbulent conditions may prefer weak links at the higher end of the range, while less experienced pilots and students (at the discretion of their instructor) should be at or below the low end of that range.

...on the Zack Marzec fatality and get back to us with it.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3UbztgTtsc
I Launched Without Buckling into my Harness - a hang gliding film by Greg Porter

oneflyinggirl

You handled that pretty well ( even managed to hit the spot).

Yeah, that's where his priorities have always been.

Thanks for sharing and the tuck away check a great idea that I should implement.

Yeah Linda, he won't be doing the most critical check at the only time it matters so he might as well have the reminder for the check stowed totally out of sight at the only time it matters.

I'm glad you weren't hurt and hope your wife recovered from that scare. Take care and safe flights and landings.

Greg Porter

Hi Linda! Thanks for bringing up the folks watching.

Yeah like his fuckin' useless wireman who happily let him go without a hook-in check - just like Bill Priday's entire crew and everyone else at launch let him go off Whitwell without a hook-in check.

Mercifully they were unaware that there was an issue and they just thought that I was flying faster than normal.

You were hooked in and had the arm loops. After you didn't drop through immediately after launch it wasn't that big a fucking deal.

I was on the radio with her but chose not to mention the dilemma during the flight, and simply told her later I'd had a bad landing (which was obvious when she arrived at the LZ!). I didn't want her to know about it at all, but ended up telling her later in the day. She dealt with it well and now she helps me focus during preflight.

1. How much focus does a preflight require?
2. Is there any possibility of anything happening between the preflight and the instant of commitment to launch that can result in a really bad day?

Oscar Chavarria

Thanks for posting. The same thing happened to me 20 years ago. Fortunately I was flying a WW Z harness, a pod. Had I been flying a cocoon I would probably have fallen to - most posibbly - my death.

And what is YOUR reason for not initiating lift and tug afterwards? (It's obvious you didn't start doing it because you're not saying anything about it.)

Greg Porter

We were fortunate, huh? Hopefully our posts here can keep someone else from having an even worse experience. Thanks for the reply.

Your posts will have the opposite effect. And anybody not condemning them deserves everything that can happen to him.

Greg Porter

Thomas Low

Thanks Greg. I did that once too. I was able to land by hanging on my arm pits. Good job keeping it together, and sorry about your downtubes. Looked like an awesome day.

Glad you survived! Spooky experience though, huh? Good comment on the day. It was actually an awesome day and I missed an excellent XC opportunity - I had hoped to fly 80 miles to the Grand Canyon. Looks like that will have to wait till next season. Thanks for the reply and safe flying to you.

Wasted epic day, an opportunity you may never have again, landing crash, trashed downtube and basetube, hundreds of man-hours of idiot discussions... All you needed to do was THIS:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjsp0mH7m0Y


And you STILL *REFUSE* to do it - along with anything else that might comply with the regs.

Greg Porter

Simple is usually better in most every process.

So...

Steve Kinsley - 1998/05/01 01:16

So Marc thinks the Australian method will forever ban human error and stupidity. I suspect that 80% of the flying community would have unhooked to fix the radio problem instead of getting out of the harness entirely. It is easier. And there you are back in the soup.

"With EACH flight, demonstrates method of establishing that pilot is hooked in JUST PRIOR to launch." Emphasis in original.-- USHGA novice through advanced requirement.

I know of only three people that actually do this. I am one of them. I am sure there are more but not a lot more. Instead we appear to favor ever more complex (and irrelevant) hang checks or schemes like Marc advocates that possibly increase rather than decrease the risk of hook in failure.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1167
The way it outa be

Steve Kinsley - 2005/10/04 14:04:25 UTC

One last attempt.

We have now rounded up all the usual suspects and promised renewed vigilance, nine page checklists, hang checks every six feet, et cetera. Bob Gillisse redux.

Start adding multiple checklists choked with trivial crap and then lock your mindset into good-to-go mode at the back of the ramp.

And DO make sure you enthusiastically endorse every idiot recommendation put forward by every Jack Show asshole capable of pushing keys and clicking "submit".

With safety being #1, if I didn't feel adherence to the checklist could get me safely off the hill all the time, I'd make a change in the equipment.

I can't tell you how happy it makes me that you FEEL that adherence to the checklist can get you safely off the hill all the time.

The contour is a great harness. Enjoy the flying - we are so fortunate to do this. Can't understand why more folks don't get involved.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1149
Team Challenge: Daily Update Thread

Holly Korzilius - 2005/10/01 18:19:55 UTC

Incident at 2005 Team Challenge

I don't have many details at this point, but I just got a call from Scott Wilkinson. Bill Priday launched from Whitwell without hooking in. Scott indicated there was about a hundred foot drop off from launch. Bill's status is unknown at this time. Please pray for him!

I will provide updates as I get them from Scott.

Fly safe and thanks for the reply.

Harald Steen
Norway

I use the squat check . Put the glider on the control frame then try to squat down on base tube , this checks the hookin and leg loops.

You can do a lift and tug a lot easier and a lot closer to launch commitment. Unless you can't do lift and tug - then this isn't that bad an alternative. However - you can do lift and tug because you're not saying you need to do the squat test because you can't. And you're also not mentioning anything in the way of "as close to commitment as possible" so we know that you're doing it at the back of the ramp, in line, in the staging area, whenever... and assuming you're good to go from that point on.

Greg Porter

Great tip Harald, thanks for posting it.

Great tip Harald, thanks for posting it! I have absolutely no intention of adopting it - or anything else that can be considered a hook-in check.

You see, I have absolutely no interest in fixing the problem. I just wanna be as popular a dude as possible, have everyone rave about my brilliant checklist concept, and get a USHGA NAA Safety Award - following right in the footsteps of other ten miles south of useless assholes like...

11-091400


...Dan DeWeese.

Carbonkiwi

Awesome video. Having had a matrix harness blow shortly after takeoff and flying down hanging on the chest buckles.....always makes me doubly check that they are secure. Distractions during pre flight are dangerous...

Distractions during preflight are INEVITABLE. Get used to them, learn to compensate, and recognize what's critical and what's trivial inconsequential crap.

but routine and reminders keep us all safe

Except for the thousands of participants in this sport that it either doesn't or has the precise opposite effect - most often by far the latter.

Greg Porter

Yep, somehow we get religion after a mishap...

And that's exactly what you got, dude - RELIGION. Aussie Methodism, hang checks, checklists, backup loops, locked carabiners, standup landings, spot landings, standard aerotow weak links, releases within easy reach, hook knives, high priests.

hopefully this video and other's experiences mentioned here, like yours, can help some from having to go through it at all. thanks for the reply.

Aren't people paying USHGA instructors to teach them what they need to know before turning them loose in potentially lethal environments? How come none of them are in the discussions endorsing any of these positions and assuring us that they are or will be incorporated in their programs. Don't you think it odd that we haven't heard a single word from Tom Galvin - a USHGA Instructor of the Year and the country's leading authority on the dangers of lift and tug that deltaman and Tim Dyer are advocating, everybody else is ignoring, and Paul Hurless is pissing all over?

C'mon Tom. Open your fucking mouth on this one. And maybe you can get Ryan to ooze back out of the woodwork for a special post or two.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=30053
Quit screwing with cameras at launch!

Dave Brose - 2013/10/05 17:15:50 UTC
Humboldt, California

My opinion...

Fuck opinions.

...is that anything could be a distraction, a camera, a beautiful woman, your shoes not being tied tight enough, the death metal playing in my truck while I'm setting up, taking an instagram photo while in line waiting to launch, asking other pilots what they are wearing to the sky ball, or mainly being distracted watching other pilots being distracted with their GoPros. Flying is basically a distraction from reality. It's all in your head what one considers distracting... idk

Goddam right. This isn't OPINION - it's black and white FACT.

- The vast majority of us are not professional hang glider pilots and the vast majority of professional hang glider "pilots" are professional hang glider "pilots" because they're too stupid to be capable of doing anything else.

- This is - and is supposed to be - a strictly recreational flavor of aviation for weekend warriors.

- We're frequently operating in radically different and often dangerous environments in radically different and often dangerous conditions and damn near everything we do and is happening around us is an inherent distraction.

- If you use procedures and techniques that are vulnerable to distraction and/or dependent upon focus you WILL kill people.

- If you have solid procedures and techniques and know what you're doing throwing a goddam camera, a fellow pilot who needs assistance - like, for instance, on a wire crew, and/or a wuffo who wants to learn about what we're doing and possibly join our ranks won't make a dust particle's worth of difference.

- If you don't. Find another hobby and get the hell out of this one - the whining, excuse making, scapegoating get on my nerves.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=30048
I launched with my harness UNBUCKLED

Mike Bomstad - 2013/10/06 04:16:22 UTC

Complacency is what bites us in the ass.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=13359
Today was a bad day!

Mike Bomstad - 2009/08/26 04:21:15 UTC

The harness is part of the aircraft... end of story.
(Just because it's easy to remove, does not mean it should be. Dont choose the path of least resistance)

Attach it to the wing, completing the aircraft.... then preflight the completed aircraft.
Buckle yourself into the cockpit and then your ready.

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=821
Fatal hang gliding accident

Sam Kellner - 2011/11/07 02:47:58 UTC

Preflight, Hangcheck, Know you're hooked in.

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=802
AL's Second flight at Packsaddle how it went

Rick Masters - 2011/10/19 22:47:17 UTC

At that moment, I would banish all concern about launching unhooked. I had taken care of it. It was done. It was out of my mind.

http://vimeo.com/74791555


http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=18876
Hang glider Crash

Helen McKerral - 2010/09/07 00:16:04 UTC

There have been numerous threads in the past about unhooked launches and ways to prevent them. One constant poster, Tad, had an unfortunate brow-beating style that flooded threads and got him banned, but IMO his point was nonetheless valid; people simply got so annoyed by his style, they stopped listening and his message was lost.

Basically, the idea is that no matter whether you use the Aussie method or not (another emotive topic), or how you do your hang check (step through or hang, look, feel, whatever) the VERY LAST THING you do immediately before every launch is to lift the glider up off your shoulders so the hangstrap goes tight and you FEEL the tug of your legloops around your groin/thighs.

More important, I think, is a change in mindset: that you constantly assume that you are NOT hooked in. That is the default mindset and only after you've done the lift and tug - immediately before every launch - do you decide you're hooked in. Also, because the default assumption is negative rather than positive, you are much less likely to start any run unhooked.

Hey Wonder Boy...

From anywhere on the planet, name me one single school which or instructor who doesn't program students to be totally complacent about unhooked launches following completion of preflight checks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7Ok-I8rfYY

[Tad Eareckson]

01-30904
http://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8532/28993414732_0629854fc5_o.png

--------^
http://www.flickr.com/photos/woodbits/3960696963/

03-31006
http://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8394/28993413612_5b4ac915ee_o.png