Great 2-hr flight until I exceeded my limits doing an ultra steep drag chute landing.
Bullshit, Jonathan. You didn't exceed YOUR limits. There wasn't something you were doing minus the necessary enthusiasm or half assedly. There's no more experienced pilot who could've pulled it off OK. You exceeded THE limits.
I will be prepared for a loss of towing thrust (for any reason) at any point during the tow operation.
Sure ya will, Jonathan. Just like Cloud 9 students can learn how to prevent lockouts by taking tandem Cone of Safety training and Blue Sky students can learn how to pro tow safely in the course of a short clinic.
Great 2-hr flight until I exceeded my limits doing an ultra steep drag chute landing. Fractured C5 vertibrae in neck. Will be in Loma Linda for a while.
Thanks to everyone who kept me stabile and freed me from my gear!!
I could be wrong, but I don't think he was risk taking...
No, he was practicing for risk taking. He was doing another form of what accounts for...
Most common HG injury... spiral fracture of the humerus.
...most of the serious and career ending injuries in the sport.
I think he was just practicing a restricted LZ landing...
There's no such thing as a restricted LZ. If It's restricted it's not an LZ.
...at which time he exceeded his limits, that resulted in the accident.
1. Here's:
The United States Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association, Inc. - 2013/02/07
12. Standard Operating Procedure
02. Pilot Proficiency System
11. Hang Gliding Special Skill Endorsements
-C. Special Skills attainable by Intermediate and above
03. Restricted Landing Field (RLF):
-a. Demonstrates a landing using a downwind leg, base leg and a final leg approach
where the entire base leg, final and landing occur within a 300' square.
what USHGA defines as a "restricted landing field". (Note it's referred to as a Restricted Landing FIELD - not a Restricted Landing ZONE.) Yeah, I think a solid Hang Two should be able to safely pull of a DBF a good bit tighter than that but how much of a postage stamp do we need to be practicing for and thinking about landing in?
Landings - like just about all of the rest of hang gliding - should be...
is pushing the envelope a bit but that's FUN. Diving in with a drag chute? Doesn't do it for me.
Standup landings don't do it for people.
Gil Dodgen - 1995/01
All of this reminds me of a comment Mike Meier made when he was learning to fly sailplanes. He mentioned how easy it was to land a sailplane (with spoilers for glide-path control and wheels), and then said, "If other aircraft were as difficult to land as hang gliders no one would fly them."
They rob them of tons of control and a bit of airtime, stress them out, and scare them - for excellent reasons. They frequently mar otherwise peak unblemished experiences.
Drag chutes, parachutes, helmets, weak links are EMERGENCY equipment. You wanna have them but you don't ever wanna need or use them. I'd much rather end my flight with a cool DBF into a tightish field than go an extra mile and need to parachute into a postage stamp with fifteen feet of runway to spare.
I'm sure he'll fill us in on what he thinks went wrong at the time of the accident and the moments leading to it.
I don't believe in accidents.
By the way Joe, Though you pulled it off, that drogue chute landing in Elsinore looked scary!
How'd the bare basetube look?
NMERider - 2014/01/31 03:33:24 UTC
I'll do a write up in a few days. It was 100% due to a series of poor decisions on my part combined with physical and other factors that created a high probability of disaster. I'm fortunate it wasn't worse. Too tired now to write more.
Good thing for dilauded. The pain today was pretty strong.
Thanks for all the well-wishes.
This sport has been hijacked by people who want the focus to be landing in the crappiest imaginable environments. That ain't aviation. And there's a parallel on the other end of the flight for the flatlanders where it's all about pretending that people can be trained / learn how to safely tow on the crappiest imaginable equipment with the crappiest imaginable drivers.
I only pick LZs that I know I can get my VQ into WITHOUT the use of a drag chute. If I feel that I really would need a drag chute to get into an LZ, that becomes an Emergency Only LZ.
Field.
NMERider - 2014/01/27 19:55:11 UTC
That's a very prudent approach, Andy. I hope others take a hint from your post.
Some of the flying I do is shared only by a few pilots and does not belong on a forum whose audience is mainly developing pilots.
Damn near everyone in hang gliding needs to be a developing pilot, Jonathan. And it's freakin' moronic to think that anybody's gonna benefit from being protected from discussions about advanced flying techniques.
And as far as I'm concerned any situation that's too iffy for a solid Hang 2.5 is too iffy for a solid Hang 5.0.
The pilot in Tasmania from the Tight Landing video thread is lucky not to be dead or crippled. IMHO.
The pilot in Tasmania from the tight landing video thread:
totally missed the fucking LZ. It's no more worthy of / relevant to a landing discussion than the 2008/08/29 Jeff Craig fatality.
Tasi - 2014/01/28 04:48:30 UTC
Greece
If in general your LZs are of a tight nature you should really consider a drag chute. A drag chute will cut down your landing field in half and less if used properly.
Think about several scenarios during any given flight... and imagine going into a tight spot and there's no wind. You'll rush to the ground to be in the box and then you'll just glide forever until you hit that tree line or overshoot to another field.
Now imagine you spread your harness open and use a drag chute on top to cut that glide; elevator down...
Where I fly I have to deal with tight spots only, along with cross wind landings and other shit. The drag chute changed my life and eased up that final part of the flight
So it was either this, move down to a beginner glider to put it everywhere, change to a paraglider altogether or go swimming.
If that's the environment you have to work with - fine. But I don't think that's really the case anywhere that's being flown in the US and Canada.
I'm with Andy on this one for this neck of the woods. If it needs a drag chute it's an emergency field and we can't be having emergency situations as regular events in our flying careers and expect to have long flying careers.
But if I can't land a higher performance glider safely a all without an amendment to the system...
I only pick LZs that I know I can get my VQ into WITHOUT the use of a drag chute. If I feel that I really would need a drag chute to get into an LZ, that becomes an Emergency Only LZ.
How would you designate a field that requires the pilot to stay on his feet in order to stay safe? Tall grass, crops, sagebrush, rocks?
NMERider - 2014/01/27 19:55:11 UTC
Some of the flying I do is shared only by a few pilots and does not belong on a forum whose audience is mainly developing pilots.
Tell me about some developing pilots who need to consistently nail foot landings to keep from crashing and getting hurt.
And what do virtually all instructors start forcing their students to do on Day One, Flight One?
Gil Dodgen - 1995/01
All of this reminds me of a comment Mike Meier made when he was learning to fly sailplanes. He mentioned how easy it was to land a sailplane (with spoilers for glide-path control and wheels), and then said, "If other aircraft were as difficult to land as hang gliders no one would fly them."
They stick them in those vile "training" harnesses which force them to fly upright with their hands at shoulder or ear height such that...
I can't control the glider in strong air with my hands at shoulder or ear height and I'd rather land on my belly with my hands on the basetube than get turned downwind.
...they won't be able to control the glider when it matters even after a lifetime of professional experience and such that a minor problem can easily translate to...
Jim Rooney threw a big tantrum and stopped posting here.
His one-technique-fits-all attitude espoused on the Oz Report Forum has become tiresome to read. It does not work in the fucked-up world of XC landings and weary pilots.
...it doesn't work. And after all your experience in the fucked up world of XC landings...
I like what Steve Pearson does when he comes in and may adapt something like that.
...you're still not sure how to best address the issue. And you just bought yourself a broken neck on one of your experimental efforts.
So you tell me something that belongs on a forum whose audience is mainly developing pilots less than standup landings. And you're quite welcome to include aerobatics training 'cause that's something that CAN be safely taught, worked into, mastered. Ditto for drag chute use.
Even Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney got something right...
A while ago, I taught a student... from day one, to land on her wheels with absolutely zero intention of foot landing.
We do this all the time with aerotowing students.
So why not with hill students?
And I mean from day 1.
Yes, even the training hill flights.
Wheels wheels wheels wheels.
As a student, she was only going to be landing in a gigantic, manicured field for a long long time. So what's the bother?
Learn to fly.
Learn to not smash into the earth.
with the air pretty benign with the Rooney Link increasing the safety of the towing operation with the glider totally under control and the tow as normal as it can possibly get.
Here's what can happen to a pro toad with a very very reliable bent pin barrel release within easy reach when a dust devil is encountered and the tug driver fixes whatever's going on back there by giving the glider the rope - well before the Rooney Link is gonna get around to increasing the safety of the towing operation:
Listen to one of the experts from Quest - the people who've been perfecting aerotowing for twenty years - teaching Rooney Link recovery strategy in conditions such as you were under:
Pull in and hope the glider starts flying again before it slams into the runway.
Here's what can - and WILL - happen to a hot shot, pro toad, tandem aerotow instructor with a Rooney Link when he tows up looking for a good thermal and finds one:
I remarked that 'you are not hooked in until after the hang check.' We ran Bill through a routine lay-down hang check at the back of the ramp, and he had a fine launch.
I, Bill Priday, do hereby resolve that I am not hooked in until after the hang check at the back of the ramp.
I, Tad Eareckson, do hereby resolve that I will not land until after I've flown two hundred miles from my release point.
And let's all get some of those little red rubber FOCUSED PILOT wristbands from USHGA.
On a forum whose audience is mainly developing pilots should we be discussing Rooney Link recovery, something that OBVIOUSLY can't be done safely and consistently...
Manned Kiting
The Basic Handbook of Tow Launched Hang Gliding
Daniel F. Poynter
1974
"The greatest dangers are a rope break or a premature release." - Richard Johnson.
Donnell Hewett - 1980/12
Now I've heard the argument that "Weak links always break at the worst possible time, when the glider is climbing hard in a near stall situation."
The United States Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association, Inc. - 2013/02/07
Standard Operating Procedure
12. Rating System
02. Pilot Proficiency System
12. Hang Gliding Aerotow
-A. Aerotow
05. The candidate must also demonstrate the ability to properly react to a weak link/tow rope break simulation with a tandem rated pilot, initiated by the tandem pilot at altitude, but at a lower than normal release altitude. Such demonstrations should be made in smooth air.
in REAL air under REAL launch conditions - or should we be following the lead of sailplaning and using weak links whose purpose is...
Tost Flugzeuggerätebau
Weak links protect your aircraft against overloading.
...to protect the aircraft against overloading and...
Dr. Trisa Tilletti - 2012/06
You and I have flown sailplanes for almost as long as we have flown hang gliders. We own two sailplanes and have two airplanes that we use for towing full-size sailplanes. In all the time that we have flown and towed sailplanes, we have not experienced or even seen a sailplane weak link break.
First, I want to say I don't know what caused Jonathan's accident.
But I've been casually observing pilots using drag ("drogue") 'chutes for a while now, and since Jon is in the hospital now I have decided to put my $.02 in.
Airplanes have flaps, and sailplanes have spoilers and/or flaps that can be valuable tools for use in controlling the glide angle during the landing approach.
With the exception of rigid wings, in hang gliding we haven't seen much in the way of glide path control devices, other than pilot body position.
We can carry extra speed and turn and slip.
As I see it, and I may be totally wrong although that's not likely, the problem with a drag chute is that once deployed, there's no taking it back if you should find that you've deployed it prematurely, or something like that.
Why would you deploy one before you've made the field and are on final?
The airplane or sailplane pilot, upon realizing that he needs more rather than less glide angle, can easily and conveniently "dump" flaps or spoilers and momentarily improve his glide angle.
I can let the bar out and do the same thing.
When I was learning to fly airplanes in my pre-hang gliding days, I learned to use about one half of my available flaps during landing approach. The idea being that if I was over-shooting my intended touch-down point, I could add more drag with more flap deflection.
My intended touchdown point is as close to the last downwind obstruction as possible. If I've cleared that obstruction it doesn't matter if I come up short and I've got the maximum possible margin for overshooting. I have zero interest in the traffic cone in the middle of the field.
But if, on the other hand, I saw I was coming up short of my intended spot
Fuck your INTENDED SPOT. Have you made the field or haven't you?
I could reduce drag by raising the flaps, the idea being not to rely on the engine, which may not be there.
So the general idea is to shoot your approach with the aircraft configured such that the glide angle is approximately in the middle of its range between the steepest and the flattest available.
You just heard my general idea - and I don't give a rat's ass about this one.
If you're coming up short, reduce drag.
I can't come up short. I've cleared that last downwind obstruction and I don't give a rat's ass about carrying my glider an extra fifty or hundred yards to the breakdown area.
If you're long...
I'm NEVER long. It's too brain dead easy to be short.
...increase drag. Unless you do a really bad job of allowing for wind speed, you're covered, even if the motor decides to pack it in at that time, or as in our case, you gots no motor to begin with.
Unless you're on the other end of the flight and towing up.
So far, I haven't seen a drag chute system that allows for a quick'n'easy "I take it back" scenario.
How often are we seeing hang glider landing situations - outside of Greece anyway - that require or benefit from drag chutes?
While I'm sure that if need be you can deflate the thing, from what I've observed this isn't anything nearly as convenient as simply moving a flap or spoiler lever.
If I can't deflate or dump the thing with both hands on the basetube on final - which is the only leg on which I'd ever have the thing open - I'm not interested. And if I need to deflate or dump it I didn't need it in the first place anyway.
So once you've made the decision to deploy your drogue, you're pretty much stuck with it, and if you suddenly realize that you were wrong, well, may God help you.
Any thoughts on what happens when a piece of fishing line or, worse yet, the Pilot In Command of your glider at the other end of the rope abruptly increases the safety of the towing operation or makes a good decision in the interest of your safety? Any ideas on how those sorts of inputs can be reversed?
We HGer's pretty much have our hands full on approach...
We're always emptying them of basetube so we can put them someplace else and stop the gliders with nice crisp flares at just the right instant.
...and it is not the time to deal with distractions.
Like rotating to vertical, letting go of the basetube, bouncing off tail wires, grasping downtubes at shoulder or ear height where we can't control the glider in strong air or get any speed, adjusting glides to target traffic cones, trying to nail flare timing?
If you are going to use a drag increasing device, then there are two things you should consider:
Just when and where on the approach you deploy, and if you got it wrong, what do you do now? These are important things to consider.
How 'bout why you're coming into a field that requires use of a drag increasing device and/or why you're too crappy of a pilot not to have solid restricted landing field capabilities?
As I see it, the drogue is not something that should be used on a regular basis.
As I see it, the drag chute is something you should only use after you've screwed a couple of pooches bigtime - mostly like the full sized reserve chute in your chest container.
If, after turning onto final, you see that you need a decrease in glide angle that cannot be achieved using the normal body position and high airspeed methods, which can be easily and conveniently modified to suit the scenario, then and only then should a non-reversible method be deployed.
Why would you turn on final until you were three hundred percent positive you wouldn't need to do anything to decrease whatever glide angle was within your capability?
Please let me note right now that I'm NOT talking about reversible decisions. If your drogue has some means of QUICKLY and EASILY disabling it on a half a moments notice...
Without taking a hand off the control bar. We don't even do that for aerotow releases when the engineering is brain dead easy, the solutions are out there and cheap, and releasing is something we need to do EVERY FLIGHT - assuming we're not using Rooney Links anyway.
...and then being able to re-enable it just as quickly, then by all means use it as casually as you would go from prone to upright and back again.
But if your drag chute doesn't have these features, be very careful as to when and where you use it. It can be a very valuable tool, especially for XC flyers, but if used improperly or if accidentally deployed, it could be a very serious issue.
It's not a very valuable tool. It's a very valuable yet cheap emergency device - especially for XC flyers. Install one and work on never needing it.
Weak-links break! They are supposed to...we are ready for that. It's what we do.
...WE do.
I'm very interested in having a drogue in my harness.
Use some 205 leechline to anchor it to your scrotum.
Jon was kind enough to offer me his phone number to consult.
You guys should get along just fine. And I hope you use your drag chute just like he did his last landing.
So... on this one any way, I'm going to respectfully disagree with you.
Who gives a rat's ass what or who you do or don't respectfully or disrespectfully agree with?
Mel Torres - 2014/01/31 16:03:49 UTC
Yes you're right. Using a drogue chute is risky so is flying a hang glider. What I meant was, doing something out of the ordinary.
Hook-in check, release operable in an emergency situation, weak link in the middle of the legal range, wheel landing.
JD uses drogue chutes just about every time he lands out or in a restricted LZ. Like he said, he'll do a complete write up on what he feels he did wrong.
I'm not interested in what anybody FEELS anybody did wrong. This shit is simple enough that we KNOW.
Andy Long - 2014/01/31 16:05:10 UTC
Sorry to hear about your unplanned "return to earth" Jono.
He had every intention of returning to Earth. I'm pretty sure he realized that doing so was inevitable at or shortly after takeoff. And when he went on final it's a good bet that he had a pretty good idea regarding when he'd be doing it.
Glad it wasn't more serious. Hope you heal fast... you crazy SOB!
NMERider - 2014/01/31 16:41:49 UTC Thanks Andy. I have about one flashback per hour of piling in complete with crunching sounds and ghost sensation of being punched in the face. But you should see the young guy two beds down and listen to the gurgling sounds.
Another Rooney Link victim?
Once again my impact was completely avoidable and preventable on several levels. I may try an FAA ADM safety analysis approach. The equipment all performed great. So well in fact that I became too aggressive for my limits and the equipment. A familiar story in many endeavors.
So far it's two cracked vertibrae and nerve injury to my right arm.
Christian Thoreson - 2004/10
Thus wheel landings, the safest and easiest way to consistently land a hang glider...
Oh, I've heard the "everything we do is an experiment" line before.
The trouble is, it's not.
I've seen experimentation with towing gear more than anything else in HG.
I've not seen many go out and try to build their own sails for example. When someone does, they're very quickly "shown the light" by the community. Example... the guy that was building the PVC glider in California somewhere.
But for some reason, towing gear is exempt from this.
...were you able to get it grandfathered in becaue you already had it worked out before he arrived?
I used It once and it acted like a big rudder and steered me into the bushes.
1. Like the bushes you were trying to avoid by using it.
2. 'Cause you had it mounted on your aft keel, right?
I could see from Joes video that that is always a possibility even with the harness connection. A tight LZ for me would have trees making it very narrow. Lose of any directional control would be very bad.
I believe It would add more risk to my flying then it would remove. I know myself. If I start landing in smaller LZs because of the drogue. I could push beyond my limits. THERE ARE BIG ENOUGH LZS OUT THERE ! DON"T FLY INTO AREAS WITH NO LZS.
Also there is the unknowns of what a Drogue does to our aerodynamics and control.
How much experimentation at altitude in smooth air over a brain dead field does it take to figure that out?
Flex wings are barely controllable as it is. Having all that drag behind the CG on a anhedral wing is dicey.
Yeah, there are just so many unfathomable issues regarding the drag chutes people have been using for decades.
When I am setting up to land in a tight LZ I am making choices around my known skills.
If you're setting up to land you've already made one of the biggest choices around your known skills that you can.
This is my safety net . Work the known. Make a plan and make it happen. Having to depend on a possible unknown would be too much of a distraction.
It's an emergency device. If you're in danger of overshooting deploy the goddam thing. It's got two speeds - on and off.
For me when I am diving into an LZ with a HG, even a rigid. It feels like I can chop the glide and speed a huge amount.
That's 'cause you CAN.
We need some speed to keep flying.
Are you sure? Maybe you should experiment a bit with the lower limit while you're dropping through the gradient.
Especially if there is a big gradient.
You can't just assume these things. You can only learn them through experience - establishing a track record.
I still entertain the idea but every time my head says yes, my gut says I..... don't....... Think.......so.
I voted for Bob after spending a very enjoyable hour on the telephone with him a few months ago. My impression of Bob is that he is a level headed and enthusiastic supporter of both hang gliding and paragliding, and above all: SAFETY.
Great to see just how concerned your buddy Bob is about safety, Jonathan - particularly YOURS. I'm not a big fan of yours and we wouldn't have shit to talk about on the telephone but I'll betchya I' have got fifty times the concern for you that he does - or ever will. And not to mention the desire to prevent something like this from happening to anyone else who doesn't really deserve it.
To clarify briefly on using an effective and reliable drag chute (not all fit this description). A good drag chute turns a topless glider into Falcon 3 and a really good drag chute turns a topless glider into a Falcon 1. The solution is extremely simple: Deploy the drag chute at a safe altitude like 300' AGL...
Thank you SO much for specifying AGL, Jonathan.
...while at the upwind side of the intended LZ.
Or, in an pinch, at the unintended LZ.
Once deployed get yourself accustomed to the change in your glide polar.
And, depending on the time of year and geographical location, polar vortex.
This change can be pretty dramatic depending on the effectiveness of YOUR drag chute/harness/glider/VG setting combination. Every combination comes out different and you want to allow yourself enough time to get adjusted.
Given what just happened to you...
If there is much wind the effect on your glide path will be pretty dramatic.
Whether or not you're using a drag chute.
So that pulling in to penetrate as you might normally do will cause your glide path to become so steep that you land short. The trick is to slow the glider down to your MCA (minimum controllable airspeed) which reduces the effect of the drag chute to near zero.
On approach? No thanks.
This way you float in over the LZ threshold. Just be careful of any gradient.
Why not just fly into the powerlines and get it over with quickly?
The problem with many drag chutes is they oscillate and some even collapse when you start cranking and banking.
Why have one deployed at a point when there's a possibility of a need for cranking and banking?
This may discourage pilots from simply doing a normal DBF which is all you need to be doing.
Do the fuckin' downwind and base and the beginning of final before tossing the chute. And if you're too low to safely toss the chute then you don't need the fuckin' chute.
If your drag chute does not allow you full maneuverability then I suggest buying one of the type I am using once it's available.
The over-sized drag chute I have been testing allows me to turn my T2C nearly twice as tight as having no drag chute at all.
How tight do you need to turn it prior to going on final?
It acts like a giant set of trailing edge flaps.
No it doesn't. A flap increases drag AND lift and lowers your stall speed. A drag chute just increases drag.
I got a little too enthusiastic on January 29th and was hotdogging then got distracted for a moment and hit the ground at ~22mph in a 3:1 glide. The conditions were benign and my equipment functioned very well.
Good thing the conditions were benign and your equipment functioned very well. Gawd only knows what might have happened if the conditions had been squirrelly and you hadn't been using your equipment.
I made this short anthology of drag chute landings showing the difference between the standard 60" model and the over-sized 72" version. It has a long section on folding instructions at the end. You can see just how tight the large version allows me to maneuver in the later landings.
Yeah. It's just that I'm not seeing any need to maneuver more tightly than you can with just the glider or able to imagine any ten percent sane situation in which that would be any advantage.
It's a very reliable and effective design and I simply pushed things too far too low to the ground.
Yep. That's just about always the reason people get fucked up and killed in this sport.
Otherwise this design makes X/C flying that much safer.
Otherwise, Mrs. Lincoln...
You just fucked yourself up engineering and testing equipment to make it safer to land in dangerous XC situations fifty times worse than you ever did actually landing without the equipment in dangerous XC situations ferchrisake.
They're nice, Jonathan. Ease up on the low altitude testing and save them for when you need them - which, hopefully, will be never.
Mike Bomstad - 2014/02/01 16:33:27 UTC
Drag (drogue) chutes-
DRAG chutes. Drogue is pretentious.
Never throw it unless your lz is absolutely in reach. (You will clear all obstacles)
Fuck that. Never throw it until you've ALREADY cleared all obstacles. Once that thing's out you've thrown away a lot of your aircraft's capabilities. And, no, I don't wanna hear a bunch of crap about fucking around retracting drag chutes on final. Use it ONLY if and when you're positive it'll work to your advantage.
If you are using it to get into an lz that is dependant on it working...
...you are already pushing your luck bigtime.
...throw it high enough to have time to deal with any issue if it doesnt work.
And ignore any issues you might have if it DOES work.
I throw it all the time to stay in practice...
Yeah, that's what Jonathan was just doing. And Andy here:
was using a Rooney Link because he flies with bent pin releases totally inoperable in emergency situations and real iffy at the best of times and thinks there's a one in a thousand chance that it could keep him from getting killed in a low level lockout and...
Safety equipment tends not to be safety equipment when it comes into play at times that don't require its use.
...and its similar to the Atos to keep that same mind set (I fly both)
Better to pick an lz that one is not needed however, but stay in practice- (Fly smart)
Flying smart means not routinely increasing your risk to stay in practice for dangerous situations anyone can easily avoid and might easily get you fucked up even if you have practiced for them every flight of your career.
And notice that we're seeing ten test flights where there's no possibility of a drag chute doing him any good and on none of them is he using anything resembling wheels where:
- there's a high probability of them being needed
- many people who've:
-- been seriously injured trying to stay in practice for landing in narrow dry riverbeds with large rocks strewn all over the place...
32-1901
...would've been fine if they'd been practicing wheel landings
-- been trying to stay in practice for landing in narrow dry riverbeds with large rocks strewn all over the place have had dangerous landings mitigated and defused by wheels
- wheels are extremely likely to work
- there are no possible negative consequences to having wheels work
As for pulling it and futzing with it, make sure you dont need to.
Goddam right.
Being distracted by anything else while landing can lead to trouble.
Like:
The Ledger - 2009/11/17
Jeremy Maready
Vermont Man Dies in Davenport Hang Glider Crash - Volunteer firefighter was gliding near Davenport Sunday (2009/11/15) when he hit tree, police say.
Anthony Ameo, 59, of Sheffield, Vermont was trying to land when he struck a pine tree and fell nearly 25 feet, according to the Polk County Sheriff's Office and officials at Wallaby Ranch, a facility that caters to hang gliders.
Ameo was flown to Lakeland Regional Medical Center where he died during surgery.
A friend said Ameo began hang gliding about three years ago and was practicing for his intermediate rating. He had passed a written test and was practicing for his flying test, which would measure his ability to set up a proper approach and flare the glider at the appropriate time to land on his feet.
"The transition (from flaring the glider to landing) takes a lot of eye-to-hand coordination," said Eugene Pettinato, Ameo's friend and flying partner. "That was his weakest area, I think."
practicing at the Wallaby Ranch Happy Acres putting green for passing some stupid, useless, dangerous, bullshit rating requirement the serial killing pigfuckers running USHGA and The Industry have in place.
Recent LANDING EVENT? I was under the impression it was a devastating crash. But I guess it's only a devastating crash when it's some new Hang Two whom nobody likes much.
...at our LZ by our very own JD, I decided to walk down to the Loma Linda hospital and see how our friend was doing. Upon arrival of his room on 8200 ward, there was JD chatting with the nurses, but not yet trying to talk them into a possible tandem flight?
JD is in good spirits and is doing quite well with the injuries he has sustained.
And Eric Mies is doing quite well with the injuries HE sustained when HE flew his glider into the ground.
And yes, he can still keep a good conversation going. At that point, I knew all is well and he will be just fine in the near future.
Oh, great. At this point do his doctors know that all is well and that he will be just fine in the near future based on the parameters they use?
JD would like to thank everyone who took quick and immediate action to help sustain his injuries till Emergency 911 personal arrived.
Maybe if people hadn't taken such quick and immediate action to help sustain his injuries he wouldn't have needed emergency personals. ("I love you Jonathan. Let's hold hands the way we did before that stupid falling out we had last October.")
It sounds like there were people present that knew what needed to be done.
And one person present who had been a bit fuzzy on what needed to be done moments before he got all that help sustaining his injuries.
He would also like to thank all those that tended to his equipment and car. At that time, I didn't have the heart to tell him that you all divided it up amongst your selves as evenly as possible???
Because I'm his only connection to the outside world of caffeine (coffee), I promised to check in on him during his stay here in Loma Linda. We'll leave the lights on, for him...
NMERider - 2014/01/31 21:57
THANKS EVERYONE & ESPECIALLY MEL
Jeff stopped by this morning with the Starbucks scones and dental hygeine gear I so badly needed. Then I was I'd be discharged and T2Tom called to check in before he went to AJX for some badly needed airtime then later offered to bring my gear over from my RAV4. Alan checked in with me and then Mel showed up and we were hanging out when I learned it would be another few hours before discharge so he went and grabbed my stuff then returned. I was finally discharged around 6PM then Mel drove me home.
I have a concussion, fractures in C5 & C6, bulging discs in C6 & C7, edema around my spinal cord and pinched nerve to my right index finger and surrounding fingers. I have analyzed my tracks and I hit the LZ at 22 mph while descending about 700 fpm. Around a 2.7:1 glide angle. My No Limit helmet took a lot of abuse and saved my face and part of my scalp.
My SD card was ejected on impact and I lost the last video file that includes the crash. I am trying to have the damaged file repaired.
I still need to figure a way to get my RAV4 back from the camping area. I can't drive for 6 weeks while I wear this cervial collar.
Thanks,
Jonathan
Sounds great. Remember when I said:
You just fucked yourself up engineering and testing equipment to make it safer to land in dangerous XC situations fifty times worse than you ever did actually landing without the equipment in dangerous XC situations ferchrisake.
You've never been scratched before compared to this.
It was 100% due to a series of poor decisions on my part...
...but he was taken to Loma Linda Hospital, where he stayed for a couple of days.
He mentioned on the CSS site that he has:
...fractures in C5 & C6, bulging discs in C6 & C7, edema around my spinal cord and pinched nerve to my right index finger and surrounding fingers. I have analyzed my tracks and I hit the LZ at 22 mph while descending about 700 fpm. Around a 2.7:1 glide angle. My No Limit helmet took a lot of abuse and saved my face and part of my scalp.
Here's how that paragraph started out:
I have a concussion, fractures in C5 & C6...
But hey, concussions are no big fucking deals. Davis, for example...
Concussions are in fact very serious and have life long effects. The last time I was knocked out what in 9th grade football. I have felt the effects of that ever since. It changes your wiring.
...has had a bunch of them. And look how great he's doing!
So good job replacing those twenty-one characters with three periods. You saved Sylmar eighteen characters worth of bandwidth.
Glad you are going to recover, Jonathan!
And I'm glad that everyone's so optimistic about Jonathan's future after this one.
We should bury this thread and not give Tad the satisfaction that we are actually wasting our time acknowledging his existence. Yes, this needed to be brought into the light but now we should bury this asshole with some nice cold dirt (metaphorically) and never speak of him again.
Fuck you, Mike. And, for standing around and saying nothing while these total douchebags - OP, Mike, Bob - were having fun doing their thing - fuck you too, Jonathan.
Thanks Andy. I have about one flashback per hour of piling in complete with crunching sounds and ghost sensation of being punched in the face. But you should see the young guy two beds down and listen to the gurgling sounds.
