Let me share some stories about your video prevalence. When work sent me to Chicago, Puerto Rico and my own travels to Texas to fly. Everyone knows about "Neon Jon" (aka your then known name).
No joke I had people walk across the tarmac and announce "this guy knows -neon jon-" and shake my hand.
In W*******n I got the feeling the tow park was hesitant on lending me a glider and gear despite my H3 and Tow rating. Apparently in the Midwest H3 is the same as a H1 out here. After chatting about "neon jon" they quickly understood me as a pro. Just so you know I rocked that club on a falcon.
Get well soon, we all miss the videos. Let me know if I can help.
Oh good. USHGA ratings and signoffs are totally meaningless but if you know "Neon Jon" you're cool and good to go. Is that one of the results of all the behind the scenes work you've been doing to make this sport safer, Jonathan?
Just got back from my doctor and need to see a neurosurgeon ASAP or I may end up with permanent nerve damage.
Any word on whether the reason you have no regrets regarding this incident is a symptom of some pre-existing condition or the result of damage you sustained on impact? Based upon what I've been seeing over the years I'm guessing the former.
I was not able to recover the last 90 frames (3 seconds) and have a friend helping me. Maybe in a week I will know whether he could recover the damaged data.
Maybe after he's done all he can with your video he could help us recover the video Scott Howard promised he'd post after people helped get him back home.
My track log actually says it all anyway. During my base leg turn I slowed my airspeed from 32 mph to 22 mph and my sink rate from 1000 fpm to 700 fpm and I hit the ground exactly as I completed the turn but before rounding out.
I became distracted by a glider just off the middle of the LZ and that momentary distraction combined with my extremely steep descent were the two factors that resulted in the accident.
Crash.
After examining the restored video data it turns out I had far more more...
Far more more room, I'd guess? Don't waste any time getting to that neurosurgeon.
...than I though I did and could have loosened the turn and slowed sooner. This would have given me the time I needed to react and land uneventfully. Stress can cause some pretty severe perceptual distortions.
I don't recall it doing so. I did a lot of dune and low hill soaring that was pretty stressful because I was working with inches. If the stress had been causing any pretty severe perceptual distortions I wouldn't have been able to work with inches and I'd have either lost it or crashed. Either way it would've been a self limiting problem.
And it certainly did in my case.
Do talk to that neurosurgeon. That severe perceptual distortion thing may be related to the working behind the scenes to make this sport safer thing. Could be something serious.
Hey Jonathan I would just consider the source of criticism. I think it stems from jealousy and I think your flying and videos are awesome . I don't see newbs taking risks because of someones video.Flying is flying any one of us could make a miscalculation and be hurt at any time. Best wishes for a fast recovery Harlan
1. A thoughtful and carefully written post.
2. Bullshit. One damn near never gets fucked up as a consequence of single miscalculation. One usually has to line up about three substantial errors simultaneously. Jonathan on this one...
- He had absolutely no need to deploy the drag chute to put the glider down at the Crestline primary. None of the gliders who landed there that day without drag chutes left in ambulances or, as far as I know, needed to replace downtubes.
- The argument can be made that he was test flying his new toy.
-- I don't know what more he was expecting to learn about the performance of his new toy that he hadn't already.
-- He could've have safely experimented his ass off at altitude and either stowed it or landed with it conservatively.
- Those goddam things should only be deployed after the glider's leveled out on final and has cleared the last downwind obstruction. Since there are no downwind obstructions at AJX there's a lot of latitude available on that one. He'd have had a real hard time crashing if he'd done that.
- He was deliberately hotdogging and has stated so.
Breathe in...breathe out. Don't panic. After SCUBA and "HARD HAT" diving for over thirty years, that's the advice I give anyone contemplating doing diving. I am finding that it works for hang gliding also. If you can see the big picture you'll understand why Jono does what he does and in fact it's the reason we all do this activity.
Jono was not looking at any big pictures here. He was a FOCUSED PILOT.
See you back in the air soon.
No you won't.
cdobsonus - 2014/02/03 20:24:22 UTC
Paradise, Utah
First and foremost:
Jon, I'm sorry to hear of your mishap, but I'm glad to hear a good prognosis and wish you a speedy and full recovery.
We haven't got a good prognosis yet. And whatever it turns out to be it won't be as good as he would've had if his drag chute connection had been as crappy as Dragonfly connection was on THIS:
The third to the last paragraph describes the "trap".
Read this sentence from Paragraph 09:
I went immediately to full opposite roll control, and managed to get the wings and nose just level when the basetube hit.
Now go backwards and read this sentence from Paragraph 06:
The equipment gets better and more high tech every year, we know more about teaching than ever, we've got parachutes, rockets to deploy them, full face kevlar helmets, wheels, FM radios for emergency rescue.
Now ask yourself why:
- there were no wheels on his basetube
- how much worse he might have crashed and been hurt if there had been wheels on his basetube
- that's the only sentence in the whole fucking article which contains the word wheels
- there's absolutely nothing in any of the Wills Wing owners' manuals about:
-- deliberate wheel landings
-- any advantage to having wheels on the basetube in the highly unlikely event that one's unable to stop the glider on his feet
-- wheels - at all
Also ask yourself where his hands were when he went immediately to full opposite roll control and managed to get the wings and nose just level when the basetube hit.
And his what Mike has to say on the issue of landings when he's not thinking about being put on the public record:
Gil Dodgen - 1995/01
All of this reminds me of a comment Mike Meier made when he was learning to fly sailplanes. He mentioned how easy it was to land a sailplane (with spoilers for glide-path control and wheels), and then said, "If other aircraft were as difficult to land as hang gliders no one would fly them."
And here's what Steve Pearson has to say on the issue of landings:
I can't control the glider in strong air with my hands at shoulder or ear height and I'd rather land on my belly with my hands on the basetube than get turned downwind.
on the public record but without fully considering the degree to which it conflicts with what's in his owners' manuals. Note, however, that he is, at least, still careful to avoid mention of wheels.
Wheels are, for the most part, a taboo subject within The Industry because it's heavily invested in and committed to teaching that:
- the foot landing:
-- is:
--- a fundamental and absolutely essential element of hang glider training and safe hang glider flying
--- always perfectly safe to execute
-- can be mastered by anyone who isn't a total idiot with proper training and constant practice
- it's perfectly safe for anyone with any degree of competency to fly without wheels
- the only really critical elements of safety equipment are:
-- backup straps to prevent people from falling out of their gliders when their primaries fail
-- loops of 130 pound test fishing line necessary to keep:
--- aerotowed gliders from immediately entering fatal lockouts
--- tugs from being pulled out of control and killed instantly
I've also found "Robertson's Charts of Reliability" by Michael Robertson, (available from USHGPA) worth a look.
Meaning you found them totally useless. 'Cause the idea of the Robertson Charts of Reliability is that you go through dozens of parameters, subjectively assign number values corresponding to risk factors, add everything up, and make your go / no go decision based on the results of the arithmetic. AND YOU DON'T DO THAT. NOBODY DOES THAT.
Both of these resources have been pointed to many times on the org.
And yet within the span of four days shy of a year we have a tandem aerotow instructor killed in a totally inexplicable aerotow crash back onto the runway at Quest and one of our most skilled and experienced XC and outlandings pilots severely crashed and nearly quaded in totally benign conditions with a drag chute out at the AJX putting green.
The harness is part of the aircraft... end of story.
(Just because it's easy to remove, does not mean it should be. Dont choose the path of least resistance)
Attach it to the wing, completing the aircraft.... then preflight the completed aircraft.
Buckle yourself into the cockpit and then your ready.
...that they're never gonna make the single deadliest and most easily effected mistake in the sport?
I think that's a natural reaction for somebody with a pilot menality.
Mentality or meniality?
"Natural" reactions get people killed in aviation.
Hang gliding has very few real pilots and is almost totally saturated with testosterone poisoned assholes.
REAL pilots tend to assume whatever happened to someone else will happen to them and gear for prevention - but this wasn't anything that "happened to" Jonathan.
You have to have a certain confidence in yourself to do this stuff.
I've got a helluva lot more confidence in myself to NOT do stuff.
But that said, we who tend to have that reaction, myself included, somehow manage to either do just that (make the same mistake we thought we would never make) or come up with whole new ways of our own to screw the pooch.
I'll never be as creative as Jonathan was on this one.
JD is a skillful and calculated pilot.
Remarkable skills almost never keep people from plowing in - solid fundamentals do. Remarkable skills get a hundred people crashed for every one they save.
He takes risks many don't dare take of course, but we're all taking some.
This was just stupidity. IF you're gonna take risks there should be good payoffs. There was nothing to be gained here.
I used to take a calculated risk to be able to run the Massanutten range in the Shenandoah Valley area of Virginia. Heading SSW from a turnpoint at Strasburg I had to jump back off the end of Short Mountain (near Mount Jackson) to the next ridge and be able to maintain altitude to near New Market to be able to get a field back in range. Unless it was one of those rare occasions when I had tons of altitude to burn it was a very scary proposition and it, in itself, added NOTHING to my enjoyment of the sport.
Long Live The NMErider
Yeah, great.
KrunoDr - 2014/02/03 22:44:04 UTC
Your videos were inspiration before I even had first flight, and they still are today after many flights. I can just hope to be so lucky and clock as many hours of flying as you do.
You won't if you depend on luck to advance your career.
NMERider - 2014/02/04 04:38:39 UTC
I am very familiar with Mike Meier's...
...useless...
...article on risk management and I own Michael Robertson's reliability chart DVD set.
And you fly with a backup loop and a locking carabiner - which you use to effect to the same degree you do the two resources you just mentioned.
I only brought up the risk management things to try and soothe the critics but I failed.
Go figure. Try focusing more on not creating risk and see how that works out.
This is really not the place to have that discussion. I have brought up the Robertson Charts and FAA ADM many times around here only to have it fall upon deaf ears.
1. When was the last time you heard someone say:
"Had my glider and harness all set up and preflighted and the day was looking good. But then I went up to the ramp and plugged in the numbers and they just didn't add up to something that made me comfortable. The high lapse rate was probably the deal breaker.
"So I packed everything up and crewed for a while until we had that really ugly incident in the LZ. Could've been me if it hadn't been for those charts. I'll NEVER AGAIN get on the ramp with my glider without first running the numbers."
I have brought up much simpler methods to make each individual's flying safer only to have those fall upon deaf ears.
Guess that's why the bulk of your work now is behind the scenes. You'll get a lot more people listening to you that way.
Here is the way it appears to me and I will share what I see from my perspective. These are my observations:
There seems to be a common mentality among a certain portion of pilots to ignore anything and everything anyone else does to foster safety because the only thing they are interested in saying, "I told you so..." and in order to be able to say, "I told you so..." it is imperative for others to have accidents. So it seems to me that the worst critics are the ones who are contributing the most to the proliferation of accidents through their passive aggression.
1. When people really have their shit together as pilots they're all gonna be on the same page on everything from unhooked launch prevention through towing equipment and weak links to approaches and landings. They won't have parochial specialties.
2. I made a thousand times more headway fighting this "standard aerotow weak link" bullshit when Zack Marzec killed himself a year and two days ago than I did with half a dozen years and thousands of hours worth of efforts at rational discussions. Sorry, but I'll happily take a nice unambiguous fatality and a single "Told ya so - MOTHERFUCKERS." over anything else any day of the week.
3. The ones who are causing the "accidents" are ENTIRELY the Industry shits who control the sport - and we need to do as much damage to them as possible at every available opportunity. We'll never win the war but we can spill a lot of blood and score a battle every now and then.
I have met many of these individuals in person and have little doubt that many of them have been on the phone or in person with each other patting each other on their backs and giving each other high fives about my accident.
You didn't have an accident. Call it what it was.
Sadly, I observed this very behavior when other pilots have gotten injured.
1. Names and circumstances.
2. I'd have LOVED to see Davis break his fuckin' neck on this one:
I can think of little that would make me happier than a nice video of Rooney dying the way his buddy did a year ago.
In addition to this, many of them have openly bragged about such things as buzzing spectators at 80 mph within ten feet of their heads and causing them to duck and run or even trip and fall down.
In certain cases I have listened to these pilots brag about buzzing motor vehicles along the ridge-line highways and causing some vehicles to nearly collide or run off the road and then chuckle about it with glee.
1. Totally off topic.
2. So how does that square with THIS:
Paul Hurless - 2014/02/03 03:45:35 UTC
I have to disagree with there being cowardice in our sport. We fly non-powered, tube and rag wings off mountains. There's nothing cowardly about that.
statement? As far as I'm concerned hang gliding is a scum magnet.
There's more and I could go on but for me the moral of this lesson is that the pilots most inclined to point their fingers at others are very often the biggest threats to our sport.
It always amazes to hear know it all pilots arguing with the professional pilots.
I mean seriously, this is our job.
We do more tows in a day than they do in a month (year for most).
We *might* have an idea of how this stuff works.
They *might* do well to listen.
Not that they will, mind you... cuz they *know*.
I mean seriously... ridgerodent's going to inform me as to what Kroop has to say on this? Seriously? Steve's a good friend of mine. I've worked at Quest with him. We've had this discussion ... IN PERSON. And many other ones that get misunderstood by the general public. It's laughable.
Don't even get me started on Tad. That obnoxious blow hard has gotten himself banned from every flying site that he used to visit... he doesn't fly anymore... because he has no where to fly. His theories were annoying at best and downright dangerous most of the time. Good riddance.
I will appreciate that it is the tug pilot's call as to the maximum breaking strength of any so-called weak link system and not mine.
I will be prepared for a loss of towing thrust (for any reason) at any point during the tow operation.
Fuck you.
Getting back to the risk management topic--I have logged over 1262 hours in the past 65 months and most of that was pretty aggressive flying and some was fairly high risk. During this time I have suffered a handful of accidents...
No.
...but nothing as serious as what happened last Wednesday. I would hazard a guess that I have made well over two million discrete decisions during this 65-month period and that several hundred thousand were so critical in nature that if I chose poorly my flying would have ended catastrophically.
So the way I look at it is that the pilots who like to heap insults and ridicule on others then talk out of their asses in public are really craving attention and are loathe to see others receive the attention they feel personally entitled to. In other words, there is a power struggle going on here.
Yep.
- Miserable little worms like Rooney and Trisa are interested only in being centers of attention and amassing power while decent people have no interest in same and only work for reform of the sport.
- So the miserable little worms like Rooney and Trisa move into positions of power by backing whatever's established and popular and maintain their positions by attacking reformers and undermining, degrading, sabotaging all their efforts.
Everything turns into a power struggle to control the attention of the rest of the pilot population and safety is left to the wayside at every step of the game and that the biggest threats to safety are often the ones who are thumping their chests and preaching their own personal gospel of safety.
Which is why it's necessary for Zack Marzecs to slam into runways and bring Darwin in on the side of the reformers.
So do let's the math: I have made over 200,000 critical decisions in the past 5-1/2 years and been to the E/R or urgent care 4 times but have broken a number of glider parts with no injury whatsoever. So let's say the ratio is 200,000:30 or ~7,000:1 with respect to critical decisions or 70,000:1 for all decisions made. Well, obviously the ratio needs to be closer to 1,000,000:1 for decisions made to avoidable accidents.
Better yet, the ratio should be infinity to one but I assure you that this sport is filled with pretenders to safety who wrap themselves in the flag of safety and the reality that they are fakes.
One of the stated goals of this site is to promote HG. MOST views on this site are NOT from members but from visitors, they have no ignore button.
Having Tad run around every day giving the impression that there is a massive weekly slaughter of pilots at tow parks due to their horribly dangerous devices surely doesnt promote HG. Especially when the safety records are quite excellent.
Like Jim said, theyve gone a decade with no fatalities at their tow park. Pretty damn good I say.
Yet listening to Tad, you would think guys were dying all over the place
He's been nothing but misleading and negative and ignored multiple warnings from me. So He's GONE
Your hang gliding promoting "moderator" over there thinks that if Ridgely pulls maybe sixty thousand tows without actually killing anybody, while ignoring:
- hundreds of incidents precipitated by crap tow equipment that would have been fatal at low altitude
- scores of crashes that wouldn't have happened if Rooney Links hadn't increased the safety of the towing operation
- a tip stalled Hang Five almost crashed and cartwheeled by a tug driver on the verge of making a good decision in the interest of his safety
- tons of downtube snapping landing crashes
- several landing crashes requiring ambulance calls
- a couple of aerobatics induced structural failures requiring parachute deployment
- a founding partner killed in a Dragonfly crash with a ballistic parachute failure off site
- gawd only knows what we never hear about
then they're doing a really great job.
Calculate the towline tension your Rooney Link allows you, compare it to the max certified operating weight of your glider, and see where you fall with respect to the legal range specified by the FAA.
They have been cooking the books and presenting false reports to the rest of the community while undermining the very thing they preach.
We're re-working the accident reporting system, but again it's a matter of getting the reports submitted and having a volunteer willing to do the detail work necessary to get them posted. There are also numerous legal issues associated with accident reports, which we're still wrestling with. It's a trade-off between informing our members so they can avoid those kinds of accidents in the future, and exposing ourselves to even more lawsuits by giving plaintiff's attorneys more ammunition to shoot at us.
Imagine a report that concludes, "If we'd had a procedure "x" in place, then it would have probably prevented this accident. And we're going to put that procedure in place at the next BOD meeting." Good info, and what we want to be able to convey. But what comes out at trial is, "Ladies and Gentlemen of the Jury, my client suffered injury because USHPA knew or should have known that a safety procedure was not in place, and was therefore negligent and at fault." We're constantly walking this line between full disclosure and handing out nooses at the hangmen's convention.
Exactly what would you expect when things work the way they do at the highest levels and the fucking useless goddam FAA let's them get away with anything and everything they want decade after decade after decade?
That is what I see from where I stand and I stand for what I say.
Name names, call assholes and liars assholes and liars, and never pull any punches. And when you get banned by Jack and Davis and ostracized by your Grebloville community I'll let you post over here.
What strikes me here is what always strikes me when one of us falls down...
Thanks Erik,
To follow the philosophy of Mike Meier I have in reality made a number of truly bad decisions that could have or should have ended tragically but merely resulted in elevating my pulse-rate. I feel that Meier is right on the money in this regard that when we make bad choices and nothing detrimental happens it reinforces the habit of choosing poorly.
That's why hang checks are so popular. People who use them to confirm their connections only launch unhooked on the rarest of connections. But, of course, people would have similar - probably much better - success rates doing nothing other than reciting the first sentence of the Gettysburg Address.
This is of course my own spin on Meier's essay that began with his breaking a downtube while top-landing at Marshall Peak.
Mike's problems began when he elected to fly without wheels.
So what is a pilot to do given this state of affairs?
Have you tried finding one and asking him?
Normally I fly with the Reaper in the right seat of my spiritual cockpit and Wednesday he was not there. I felt no death and saw no carnage during the latter half of my flight and I lost my perspective on reality.
Given what your perspective on reality is most of the time that wouldn't necessarily be a huge disadvantage
It is the Reaper who has been keeping me alive and honest all these years and during all the adventures and misadventures then for one moment too many my grim co-pilot was not in the right-hand seat and I lost my way.
What the hell. You undoubtedly got to within a twenty-five feet of your planned stopping point.
Long live The Reaper and his company may I keep so that I fly while still mortal.
Glenn Zapien - 2014/02/04 07:26:42 UTC
Sorry for your injury Jonathan.I find your delivery of haymaker verbiage about other pilots being jealous, Ryan and all that other nonsense conflicting with the good that you do for the sport.
I'm sure you do.
It goes without saying that you have done alot, but reading your posts with those rants I find disappointing.
Especially seeing as how T** at K*** S****** wasn't a target of any of them.
Nobody wants to see you hurt dude. Nobody.
How the fuck do you know?
Wish you good health.
Tom Lyon - 2014/02/04 07:55:19 UTC
I really appreciate that you are sharing this with us, JD. I'm glad you are going to be OK.
I'm not a fan of criticizing someone after an accident...
How 'bout after what Jonathan had?
...in any way other than to dissect that incident...
Much better.
...that way the NTSB does for safety purposes. It's not possible to go back and un-do an accident, why make a person feel bad or defensive?
Regarding this from Mike Meier's article -
...we make bad choices and nothing detrimental happens it reinforces the habit of choosing poorly.
That wasn't from Mike's article. That's from Jonathan's comment on Mike's article.
That's what I was referring to when I commented on turns near the ground elsewhere.
You mean like ALL dune gooners do several times a minute?
I see so many landings where a low turn from base to final is just standard.
Ya don't see them overshooting runways much, do ya?
And almost all of us have either seen, or know of someone who caught a wingtip or otherwise landed while in a turn.
Bullshit.
- If you see or hear about anyone catching a tip it's some bozo who's coming in slow and trying to correct for a crappy approach.
- If somebody who's doing a low turn at an appropriate airspeed catches a tip his ass is DEAD. And we're not hearing about people being killed that way 'cause it ain't happening.
What's so dangerous is someone incapable of doing safe fast low turns and typically does a really wide pattern and turns onto final far downwind of the last downwind obstruction.
In learning to fly the sailplanes, I had it drilled into me that below two hundred feet, my options did not include anything more than maybe a very slight turn to avoid hitting an obstacle. Like thirty degrees from my heading maybe. A slight bank.
Fuck that.
- When I was flying the dunes in light air I was I'd frequently have my inside tip skimming through the sand and was doing hard 180s at the ends of passes.
- People have pulled up into loops and made saves from well under two hundred feet.
Your instructor was an asshole. Nuthin' wrong with being conservative while you're learning but you should always be working on learning how to exploit your plane's capabilities and your instructor should always be pushing a little. And if options beyond very slight turns to avoid obstacles were really all that fucking dangerous he wouldn't have needed to work so hard to convince you that they were.
I see hang gliders make ninety degree turns from base to final at maybe 50 to 75 feet AGL...
Sure it wasn't MSL?
...fairly often. And I always cringe.
Watch me sometime when I've got a little space to work with. I'll dive it downwind and wang it up and back 180 unto final. KISS - if you don't need a base leg don't include a base leg.
Turns down low definitely appear to be something (from my very limited experience) that our sport needs to take more seriously in terms of avoidance.
The ability to do safe turns down low actually IS the most effective arrow we can carry in our approach quiver to handle tight landing situations.
2014/02/04 14:40:45 UTC - 3 thumbs up - NMERider
You don't need to do low turns. You've got a really nice drag chute that'll get ya on the ground in no time.
2014/02/04 14:33:57 UTC - 3 thumbs up - Jack Axaopoulos
Fuck you, Jack.
2014/02/04 15:04:44 UTC - 3 thumbs up - John Borton
Jim Rowan - 2014/02/04 14:41:13 UTC
Jono, best wishes for a speedy and complete recovery! I'm no fan of drogue chutes and got rid of mine a few years ago after it tried to kill me.
1. I'll be more than happy to buy you a new one.
2. Remember when Zack Marzec's Rooney Link succeeded in killing him? What kind of fishing line are you using nowadays? Didn't hear you saying anything of any substance in any of those discussions.
Heal well!!
Eat runway.
NMERider - 2014/02/04 15:02:37 UTC
Tom Lyon - 2014/02/04 07:55:19 UTC
That's what I was referring to when I commented on turns near the ground elsewhere.
Ironically my big drag chute avoids the need for any low turns since it allows a 3:1 glide at 31 mph. I made several violations of my own protocols on Wednesday.
NMERider - 2014/02/04 17:09:46 UTC
Glenn,
You are the last pilot on the planet toward whom I would even think of targeting my antipathy.
That's OK. He's really high on my list. I've got him covered.
Thank you for the kind words and well-wishes.
NMERider - 2014/02/04 17:17:13 UTC
I just ordered my radiology records delivered overnight by FedEx to my doctor. Hopefully I can see the neurosurgeon in the next day or two and take steps to prevent permanent nerve damage to my right shoulder, arm and hand. There is pressure on these nerves from my C5 vertebrae...
Vertebra. This would be a really good time to get familiar with the word and its singular and plural forms.
...and I need to get that pressure off before it causes permanent damage. The neurosurgeon will know whether to inject steroids or leave it. Steroids prevent the bone from healing while the swelling may be injuring the nerve.
zamuro - 2014/02/04 17:21:46 UTC
NMERider - 2014/02/04 15:02:37 UTC
I made several violations of my own protocols on Wednesday.
I'll be interested to know what those were. I have a drogue chute (Metamofosi) and have used it a few times. Apart from the need to an early flare I did not notice any ill effects on the glider behavior, just the intended glide path reduction.
NMERider - 2014/02/04 18:02:24 UTC
The Metamofosi Deltastop is a good drag chute. I used to own two and have used these many times. The oscillations are tolerable and it does not collapse too badly in ground effect. Moyes has these in production and sell them for $175.
What do you think of the aerotow release Moyes sells...
Rohan Holtkamp did an analysis of the accident, in particular the bridle and weaklink, which never broke. The weaklink was caught on the release mechanism, a standard spinnaker release found on bridle systems used at Lookout Mountain, Moyes, Wallaby Ranch, and Quest Air. The release clamp has an arm that is thicker at the release point and this held onto the weaklink which consisted of multiple loops of thick line.
This type of release mechanism has been banned (at least for a short while) from the Worlds at Hay.
...and how well do you think the short period of banning from the 2005 Worlds at Hay worked to address the issue which killed Robin?
The drag chute I have been experimenting with was never intended to be used to maneuver my T2C 144 like it was a helicopter but that is what it does allow me to do.
If you wanna fly like a helicopter get a helicopter.
The protocols I violated are:
1 - Not to dive the T2C using the big drag chute faster than 38 mph unless I was high enough to safely deploy my reserve chute.
I've got a bit of a problem with the concept that there's such a thing as a safe deployment of a reserve chute in an emergency situation on a hang glider.
I was going 42 mph at 400' agl and dropping at 1200 fpm. (3:1 glide angle)
2 - Only use the big drag chute to make steep descents in a straight line once near the ground.
What purpose does ANY drag chute serve prior to the point at which you're lined up on final?
I entered my base leg turn at 57' AGL going 33 mph and sinking at 1000 fpm during the turn. I exited the turn at 3' AGL while still dropping at ~1000 fpm.
Think you've specified "AGL" enough times for us to get it?
That's a vertical speed of 11 mph with a forward speed between 22 and 33 mph.
Had I followed my own simple protocols and ignoring all the other factors I would have landed just fine and been able to enjoy the post-frontal soaring on Sunday and probably gone X/C. So not only did I injure myself needlessly, I did a disservice to my family and to the soaring community by failing to set a better example than the one I have now presented.
The disappointment I do feel is a constructive emotion that should help motivate me to make a greater effort to follow safe procedure, protocol and safety philosophy in the future.
Oh - DISAPPOINTMENT. Just as long as you keep your feelings...
NMERider - 2014/02/03 03:52:39 UTC
I did not experience a moral failing and have no regrets as such.
...south of REGRET.
Yeah, you did a major disservice to your family and some of your buddies and others helping to pick up the pieces and an astronomical one to yourself but...
- Fuck the soaring "community".
- Fuck the crap about failing to set a better example on this one. You set an absolutely OUTSTANDING example. Because of the example you set I predict it'll be at least months, maybe even years, before the next guy flies his glider into the ground with a big drag chute deployed the nanosecond after the turn onto final.
A year and three days ago Zack Marzec in the course of a flight that lasted less than thirty second set an outstanding example illustrating just how much a Rooney Link can increase the safety of the towing operation for a pro toad doing everything right. Never in the field of hang glider towing has so much been owed by so many to so few. I'd LOVE to see another half dozen or so pro toads setting similar examples - 'specially if I get to pick the names.
Where you REALLY SUCK in the example setting department, Jonathan, is your skipping of hook-in checks and telling people that it's the call of the pigfucker in the Dragonfly as to what weak link you go up on and that you're gonna be able to safely deal with the increase in the safety of the towing operation it perpetrates.
Also where you stand around and do NOTHING when somebody is being lied about and pissed all over by pigfuckers like Jack, Davis, Rooney, OP, Bob - even if you don't particularly like the target of the abuse. Note that I've stood up for you on this one when the attacks have been unfair and unjustified. But maybe you're doing that behind the scenes the way you've been advancing safety and I'm just not aware of your efforts. Just in case - thanks zillions.
Tight fast turns burn altitude like hell. At least for my setup, it feels like "slipping" the glider. (Yes, I know the term's missuse.)
I took and take the good hint not to turn low with the dragger outside... for spot landing it's anyway better to go for a long final and adjust your glidepath with the flown speed.
Yeah, if you're gonna severely compromise the safety of your landing by going for a spot it's best to also severely compromise the safety of your landing with a long final.
JD thanks for sharing your video, seems you are man enough to share your failures...
1. Not that he would've had a whole lot of choice on this one.
2. He's not man enough to engage T** at K*** S****** on anything of substance.
...while lots of pilots try to hide them in our scene.
What's the social cost? You only get fucked over by this culture by standing up for reform.
Probably those who shout the loudest here.
Take care and hopefully you're soon back in the air!
But realistically he won't be.
Tom Lyon - 2014/02/04 18:40:02 UTC
And any one of us who doesn't fully understand that we are just one momentary lapse of concentration, discipline, whatever from violating our own safety protocols is not being honest.
That's not anything close to what happened here.
I appreciate that you are helping us all learn.
How do you know he's helping "us" ALL learn? I haven't picked up shit from him.
Aaron Swepston - 2014/02/04 19:52:15 UTC
Sumner, Washington
Being inspired by Jonathan's videos is a good thing for the sport. But beautiful videos do not equate to expertise and safety in the air.
It always amazes to hear know it all pilots arguing with the professional pilots.
I mean seriously, this is our job.
We do more tows in a day than they do in a month (year for most).
We *might* have an idea of how this stuff works.
They *might* do well to listen.
Not that they will, mind you... cuz they *know*.
...PROFESSIONAL PILOT. If you get paid for driving a tug up and down all day or...
The Press - 2006/03/15
In a video, he was seen to hold on to the glider for about fifty meters before hitting power lines.
Rooney and the passenger fell about fifteen meters to the ground.
...running tourists into the air on tandem gliders you are automatically all knowing in all issues of aviation and aeronautical engineering.
There is much to say about Jonathan that is good and admirable, but if you intend to make a life in this sport, do not emulate his basic flying skills, lest you end up along side him in bed.
That one didn't have shit to do with his basic flying skills.
Aaron Swepston - 2014/02/04 20:20:58 UTC
Dude, you need to get a grip. I'm only partially through this thread and you are nearly raving at anyone who tries to analyze your accident with any degree of objectivity. Had this been a fatality, which it very well could have been, that analysis could have gone a lot more smoothly without your vicious attacks on anyone looking in from the outside. Chill out and thanks the starts you are still alive. Don't be so hateful.
When you talk about flying aggressively, which I have seen you say so many times over the years, I have to scratch my head. I have no idea what you are talking about. I always see that you talk all aggressive and get up in anyone's face you don't like, but from what I have seen of your videos, your style of flying is far from aggressive. Weak launches, with small steps and early transitions to the downtubes...
In flagrant violation of Christopher's Five Second Rule.
...popping the nose...
On what turned out to be my final foot launched flight - off of Woodstock on 2005/10/15 - Matthew Graham reported that I had "popped the nose". That was bullshit. The wind had just ramped down from blown out, it was evening, the air was smooth, I had tons of airspeed just standing in launch position. I was deliberately climbing out and going where I wanted to.
...kiting the glider off the hill at minimum flying speed, where the glider then has to swoop to gain adequate flying speed once you load it up...
Once his feet are off the ground the glider's loaded up as much as it's gonna be in the absence of hard pitch ups and/or turns.
...is not "aggressive" flying. It's lax and complacent. Weak.
Landings where most turns seem to be a series of dives and swoops, as in slip turns which lose altitude and when coming out of them you zoom back up.
So? He's still reducing runway requirement.
S turns look wildly entertaining, or scary, depending on your perspective...
Any possibility of fun?
...but from my perspective...
Fuck your perspective. Flying is physics and physics doesn't give a rat's ass about anyone's perspective. Something either is or isn't.
...it is careless control of airspeed and altitude loss when a pilot does unintentional slips and resulting whoop de doos on approach.
You can tell that what Jonathan's doing is unintentional?
Final approaches which are also accelerated swoops to the ground, resulting from diving turns, where the bar has to be popped a bit to prevent scraping or pounding the ground.
Oh. So if you come dive through the gradient, trash, whatever with a lot of airspeed you need to adjust your pitch when you near the surface to avoid flying into the ground. Got it.
All of those things have been common elements of your videos, and anyone watching would have to conclude that they are a common part of your flying style.
I probably haven't watched a fraction of the number of his videos that you have but I haven't seen anything - beyond his idiot refusal to do hook-in checks, use of shit towing equipment, and unnecessary stand-up landings - that looks dangerous. And I notice you're not mentioning any of those items.
Those are basic skill sets which are unrefined and sloppy. Those are always the parts that will cause us the most harm.
What causes us the most harm is idiot refusal to do hook-in checks, use of shit towing equipment, and unnecessary stand-up landings - but you're not mentioning any of those items.
It has nothing to do with flying "aggressively". You crash on launches, and on landings...
How come you've got all this time to comment on this one of Jonathan's - which has pretty much zero relevance to mainstream hang gliding - but not enough to utter a single syllable an Zack Marzec or Jon Orders or all the unhooked launches going on in Jonathan's neck of the woods?
...and that has little to do with aggressive adventure flying...
And this crash has (see above) virtually nothing to do with anything.
...it has everything to do with the most basic, fundamental skills of launching and landing!
So cite some of the crashes he's having for want of these most basic, fundamental skills.
You seem to be very confused about what bad ass really is.
And you seem to be very confused about what's worth talking about.
Look, you have weak launches with semi-poor technique. You have equally questionable landings.
Everybody who foot lands in the absence of a good steady headwind...
Gil Dodgen - 1995/01
All of this reminds me of a comment Mike Meier made when he was learning to fly sailplanes. He mentioned how easy it was to land a sailplane (with spoilers for glide-path control and wheels), and then said, "If other aircraft were as difficult to land as hang gliders no one would fly them."
...has questionable landings.
Who cares what happens in between, even though from what I have seen it all seems to take place at min sink speeds for the most part, which again doesn't seem all that aggressive, but let's not get into that for now. Flying a sledder to the LZ, or flying a hundred miler or setting a site XC record, doesn't make a difference when you book end it between crappy launches and crappy landings.
So how 'bout Davis who:
- can't figure out how to:
-- consistently get a glider more than ten feet off a launch cart:
Then again, Russell Brown had us double up behind him after six breaks in a row at Zapata. We couldn't figure out why we had so many breaks so quickly. Maybe just coincidence.
IMHO aerotowing is relatively safe compared with foot launching. I would certainly like to make it safer. What we would all like to know is what could we do to make it safer.
We have no agreement that a stronger weaklink would make it safer (again, I fly with a slightly stronger weaklink).
Protow only
- forces competition pilots to fly on pro toad, bent pin, fuzzy fishing line crap that crashes and kills people:
Competitors must use appropriate aerotow bridles as determined by the Meet Director and Safety Director and their designated officials. Bridles must include secondary releases (as determined by the Safety Director). Bridles must be able to be connected to the tow line within two seconds. The only appropriate bridles can be found here: http://OzReport.com/9.039#0
and: http://ozreport.com/9.041#2.
Pilots who have not already had their bridles inspected during the practice days must bring their bridles to the mandatory pilot safety briefing and have them reviewed. Pilots with inappropriate bridles may purchase appropriate bridles from the meet organizer.
Weaklinks
Pilots must use weaklinks provided by the meet organizers and in a manner approved by the meet organizers. All weaklinks will be checked and use of inappropriate weaklinks will require the pilot to go to the end of the launch line to change the weaklink.
Weaklinks should be placed at one end of a shoulder bridle. The tow forces on the weaklink will be roughly divided in half by this placement. Pilots will be shown how to tie the weaklink so that it more likely breaks at its rating breaking strength.
Those are what will bite you. People have been saying that to you for years, for YEARS.
Ya know what people have been saying to ME for DECADES?
And your response is always to tell people to go screw themselves because you are an action hero and everyone else, who by the way probably don't crash as much as you do...
1. PROBABLY don't crash as much as Jonathan does?
2. If they PROBABLY don't crash as much as Jonathan does they also PROBABLY don't:
- fly
- go XC in a fairly hostile environment
as much as Jonathan does.
...can go screw themselves.
I tell them to go screw themselves 'cause they're morons, liars, and saboteurs.
I watched you go all insane crazy on Noman early on in this thread, and you haven't let up. Crazy stuff.
Come over here if you really wanna see someone going all insane crazy on Noman and not let up.
The thing is, you are fooling yourself into being a non-learner.
He Peter Principled a long time ago.
You fool yourself with the idea that you are some sky god because you fly XC miles, but in reality you're just being some punk by berating people who can see your deficiencies far better than you allow yourself to.
I can go with that - but for reasons far different from and beyond yours.
You make awesome videos, keep it up! Good stuff there! You chalk up some fantastic XC flights, you go boyyyy! But man, you need to do two things; learn some better basic skills, and get a prescription for anger management. People try to help you, and you tear them to pieces. That's whack. The only thing aggressive about your flying is, well, how aggressively you avoid H2 and H3 launch and landing skills.
Hate to be kicking a guy when he is down, but whatever, maybe you can find time to ponder it reasonably while you recover. I hope you do recover, I hate to see you like this, but hey, if you maintain poor launch and landing skills, and don't care to improve them, it really is only a matter of time.
I guess I've gotta keep saying this ad nauseam 'cause people keep doing it ad nauseam...
This didn't have SHIT to do with his poor launch and landing skills.
And if his launch and landing skills WERE that crappy we'd have definitely seen some significant results long before now.
Hi Aaron,
Thank you for the well-wishes. Always a real treat to hear from you.
Keep up the good work.
Cheers,
Jonathan
Aaron Swepston - 2014/02/04 20:42:19 UTC
I guessing that is tongue in cheek, because you have never seemed to give anything I have said any credence. I seriously wish you a speedy and full recovery, I want you to take that to heart. I have been bugging you for several years to come up to Chelan to try out its incredible cross country potential, and also so you can get a little different perspective on how wrong you have been in your assertions on other people's intentions, and attitudes. There is much you could learn by stepping out of your comfort zone and routine stomping grounds.
When you say something like "Let's be perfectly frank shall we? There is sadly no shortage of cowardice within our ranks. I am certainly no hero but I sure as shit am a true adventurer.", I have a pretty good idea who you are talking about.
I don't. It's such a well stocked category that it's really hard to stay on top of.
I've seen you attack Ryan so many times in these forums, and in this thread, as well as anyone else who attempts to help you.
Anybody who isn't attacking that sleazy little motherfucker pretty much full time is a big part of the problem.
You are just so insulting, without reason. Cowards? For what, pressing the importance of BASIC skills? Cowards for telling you you need to get your launches together? Cowards for telling you you need to get your landings under control?
Patrick Halfhill - 2009/06/23 15:42:23 UTC
Pittsburgh
In the Chris Bulger incident it was found that he and the pilot he was towing were breaking to many weaklinks so, they put multiple ones on. Than when the pilot being towed locked out it created a oscilation problem for the trike that threw the pilot out. Yes a few other things should have been done different.
Also the 2 g allowance is 25 yrs old. The people that actually tow. Actually pull their freinds into the air. Actually do this for a living and don't want to kill customers have come up with the current system. It is in their best interest to do it right. Calling their equipment junk is just insane. Calling them irresponsible is just insane.
Where the fuck was he after Zack Marzec got splattered?
Patrick Halfhill - 2009/06/23 23:04:54 UTC
Tad,
if the two pilots involved would have gotten tired of breaking weaklinks and gone and got beer, The young man may still be alive today.
I guess we only worry about young men not still being alive and having beers when they're using one and a half G strong- or Tad-O-Links that don't break when they're supposed to.
Adventure all you want, if that's what you want to call your flying. But please, for the sake of all the guys who look up to you, or look down at you, or look sideways at you, get your shit together at the beginning and ends of your flights. Those should not be the part of the adventure that takes you out again and again...
Jonathan's just a weekend warrior - totally subservient to...
I will appreciate that it is the tug pilot's call as to the maximum breaking strength of any so-called weak link system and not mine.
I will be prepared for a loss of towing thrust (for any reason) at any point during the tow operation.
...his tug driver and 130 pound test fishing line Pilots In Command. Why would anybody in his right mind bother looking up to or down or sideways at Jonathan when we've got a PROFESSIONAL PILOT...
Enjoy your posts, as always, and find your comments solid, based on hundreds of hours / tows of experience and backed up by a keen intellect/knowledge of the issues when it comes to most things in general and hang gliding AT/Towing in particular. Wanted to go on record in case anyone reading wanted to know one persons comments they should give weight to.
...with an extremely keen intellect who knows everything about everything telling us what we can and can't do and exactly how to do it?
I really hate to be a thorn in your side, Aaron, but you and I are never going to see eye to eye, at least not online. Perhaps if we flew together and met in person it may be different. I have been led by others to believe that you are a different person in person than you are online. If that is true then perhaps the things that I write and the media that I edit do not come across to you in the same way they do to me. In fact if you were to say to my face some of the things you have posted to me online it may come across radically different in person that it does in writing and posted to a bulletin broad such as this.
Feel free to use my videos to describe whatever you feel would be of value to your students and if you want to say something is a prime example of weak technique then by all means do so if in fact it helps to make your students better pilots.
I could've really used the video of you getting dumped into the dirt by the focal point of your safe towing system on 2011/09/19 from which I extracted these stills:
And the fact that you killed it is a pretty good indication that you either don't really give a rat's ass about flying safety or are totally clueless on the issue.
Many of the things that you may believe are news to me when you post them are in fact old news to me and I'm well aware of these things yet I choose to proceed as I see fit.
I will appreciate that it is the tug pilot's call as to the maximum breaking strength of any so-called weak link system and not mine.
I will be prepared for a loss of towing thrust (for any reason) at any point during the tow operation.
...as your tug driver, tow mast breakaway protector, and mandated fishing line see fit.
I have little doubt that this may be a source of irritation for you and that is something we just have to both learn to live with.
Why don't you guys just go whining to Jack and try to get each other banned?
I'm the all time champion of the Jack Show douchebags' Ignore List with just over ten times as many points as you have - and I've been permanently banned from that site in every possible way imaginable for well over four years now.
...and there is one pilot who has removed his glider from the only shuttle to launch at Sylmar on two occasions when I showed up to go fly. In fact the last time we went up together and after slinging insults at me while en route he turtled his UP Saturn while walking to the ramp and I came over and helped him right it without being asked or thanked afterward.
Surely you must be mistaken. It's hard to believe that anyone with enough character and courage to fly non-powered, tube and rag wings off mountains would behave in such a despicable manner.
I've been polling some of the people who I thought might have been avoiding the US Hawks because of Tad. Here's part of one response that I got via email:
When I say that I want absolutely nothing to do with him, I am not exaggerating. The simple fact that he's on your forum means that I will not participate at all.
Does he have a name?
Warren Narron - 2011/12/14 00:35:57 UTC
If something like this is going to be used to make some kind of a value judgement against our friend named Tad, then maybe a name should also be attached to this sentiment so that a fair value judgement can also be weighed in this equation?
Just thinking out loud here...
Just thinking out loud here...
Following this I guess he must become so upset in my presence that he feels it is unsafe for him to fly if I'm anywhere around him. Sad that is.
Why? We don't have enough total assholes clogging the air in this sport as it is?
You see there is no shortage of animosity and outright hatred, contempt, and abject intolerance between certain individuals within this sport...
There needs to be. There needs to be a lot more of it and it needs to be aimed in the right directions.
...and that is something that I guess we are all just going to have to live with.
We can use it to really good purpose if we want.
In the meantime all this discussion and debate has kept fires in the furnace of my soul well-stoked. This is helping me keep focused and my spirits up and focused on recover and rehab. I have a pretty good idea who I can thank for a large portion of that too.
Dennis Cavagnaro - 2014/02/04 21:50:48 UTC
Aaron and Jon... you are two people I like and respect a lot. I would recommend this be taken offline. It never stops amazing me how much reasonableness and understanding occurs once you remove the audience.
Leave it on line. Never hurts to have people's words on - and conspicuously OFF - the record.
It takes an ego to want to fly...
Is that carved in stone somewhere? Do you have any data to support that statement?
Tad really has no testicles. He says he had one surgically removed. However we all know they took both out.
Quote Tad about our this thread here on SHGA:
"tell Rob McKenzie he can go fuck himself"
Surely that is a quotation of a man with no balls. Imagine living most of your life with no testicles.
Orion Price - 2013/03/13 06:40:59 UTC
Imagine walking around with a flat sack. Talking all castrato. A eunuch who wanted to be put out to stud, instead writes weird letters to the FAA. It's no way to be.
Mike Blankenhorn - 2013/03/13 16:55:55
Pure poetry!!!
Orion Price - 2013/03/14 02:30:05 UTC
Some times, in life, you get left with the short end of the stick. And sometimes, in Tad Earecson's case, holding an empty sack. Literally. The man has no testicles.
total fucking assholes.
...that ego may express itself differently but it's there.
The smaller the ego the better the pilot.
Jon flies XC...
I don't see Jonathan as having an ego issue.
...Aaron loves acrobatics. One emphasizes great glider control and precision, the other excellent strategy and tactics.
Quality XC doesn't take great glider control and precision?
Everyone has to take off and to land to do either...
1. For a lot of people takeoff can be / is via dolly or platform. Those are very little about skill and very much about equipment.
2. Virtually no one - in either discipline - has to foot land and/or park in fields requiring extraordinary approach skills and/or drag chutes.
...and let's remind all that we are always students in learning mode.
Really? Then how come people are still:
- using:
-- back up loops to keep from falling from their gliders in the event that their mains fail?
-- quick links between their parachute bridles and harness suspension to keep from falling to their deaths in the event that their carabiners fail?
-- hang strap spreaders positioned to keep their carabineers/caribeeners/carabinieres/'biners/'beeners/'beaners from being crushed?
-- hang checks and Aussie Methodism to try to prevent unhooked launches?
-- pro toad bridles?
-- four foot long pro toad and secondary bridles?
-- Rooney Links:
--- as emergency releases?
--- to increase the safety of the towing operation?
-- three strand 130 pound Greenspot as Dragonfly tow mast breakaway protectors?
-- Dragonfly tow bridles with weak links only above the tow ring?
-- hook knives as backup releases?
-- bent pin barrel releases?
-- bicycle brake release levers velcroed to their downtubes:
-- shoulder mounted barrel releases levers velcroed to their downtubes:
--- within easy reach?
- trying to whipstall to a dead stop every landing of their careers:
-- with their hands in no control / arm break position?
-- as practice for landing in narrow dry riverbeds with large rocks strewn all over the place?
- skipping:
-- hook-in checks because they give a false sense of security?
-- preflight sidewire load test because they're afraid they might break something before they get their gliders in the air?
- worried about whether their chin straps are buckled to a degree equal to their concern about whether they're connected to their gliders?
- believing that it's unacceptably dangerous to fly with an unlocked carabiner unless they're over water?
- regarding a backup loop as an essential component of the glider's safety system and wheels as optional for foot landing masters?
- prioritizing the ability to hit a traffic cone over the ability to safely hit a field?
- talking about Jonathan's catastrophic crash as an example of the inherent risks involved in hang gliding?
- unable to easily see that Donnell Hewett was - and is - near totally clueless on his Skyting Theory?
- constantly pissing all over any release design which allows the pilot to blow tow with both hands on the basetube?
- totally incapable of coming up with any ideas whatsoever to reduce the likelihood of a Zack Marzec rerun?
- continuing to increase the track record of the Rooney Link?
- towing up behind off the scale stupid and arrogant motherfuckers who've publicly declared they:
-- are the Pilots In Command of the gliders on the back end of the string?
-- can fix whatever's going on back there by giving the glider the rope?
- keeping their noses stuck up the asses of Dennis Excellent-Book Pagen and Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney?
- not seeing that Dr. Trisa Tilletti and Davis Straub are lying sacks of shit in serious need of having their heads stuck on a pikes?
This "we are always students" cliché is almost entirely bullshit. The basic theory and fundamental skills of hang gliding / aviation are fairly simple and easily understood and incorporated. A solid Hang 2.5 should have everything important solidly down and then start focusing on nonessential crap like learning to find and max out on thermals.
But hang gliding isn't about students and learning. It's a religious cult that hates and fears actual learning. Just watch what happens to anyone who dares take a public position that the purpose of the weak link is...
Tost Flugzeuggerätebau
Weak links protect your aircraft against overloading.
...to protect your aircraft against overloading and NOT to protect the pilot from lockouts.
In regards to risk and gliding it's been 28 years since the shuttle disaster (1986/01/28) and there was a movie staring William Hurt about the research that went into discovering what went wrong.
People knew EXACTLY what "went" wrong before it "went" wrong. The only thing they were surprised about was that it didn't "go" wrong on the launch pad.
The movie referred to a statistical probability of something going wrong in a complex activity like a shuttle flight.
There wasn't a goddam thing that was complex about what happened on that epic pooch screw. It happened as a total consequence of a bunch of assholes not fixing a glaring ugly problem and pushing their luck to the breaking point.
Well, soaring has those probabilities as well...
Soaring? That's what Jonathan was doing when he cratered in? Bar in, six foot diameter drag chute out, tight turns, a thousand feet per minute down into the AJX putting green?
...and the risk of a negative outcome increases as one presses limits (flies aggressively)...
Or, in Jonathan's case, presses limits to aggressively stop flying.
I'm not saying it's inevitable, I am saying that incidents are a byproduct of increasing the complexity of in-flight decision making.
It's the nature of being a pilot to seek adventure.
It's the goal of a REAL pilot to AVOID adventure. You fly the glider like you're getting paid to do it and - whether it's a sled to the LZ or dune, ridge, thermal, XC, aerobatic - focus on nothing but making the right/best decisions to accomplish what you're trying to accomplish and executing them properly. The enjoyment, thrills, satisfaction are all byproducts of doing things right.
That statement is total bullshit. NOBODY who isn't totally insane gets on a ramp or cart early in the afternoon with the intent or goal of increasing the unpredictability of the day's outcome. People want - for reasons rational and ir:
- HGMA certified gliders
- careful and thorough preflight checks
- distraction free environments
- good parachutes and helmets
- backup loops and locking steel carabiners to make extra sure they don't fall out of their gliders
- multiple hang checks covering five to ten Cs
- releases they can blow with both hands on the basetube
- weak links that meet their idiot expectations of:
-- breaking as early as possible in lockout situations
-- being strong and reliable enough to avoid frequent breaks from turbulence
- expert opinions they can trust and use the to fill the void created by their inabilities to comprehend theory
- hook knife backup releases
- clean launches in minimum risk cycles
- lotsa altitude for lotsa clearance from the hard stuff and lotsa options
- huge fucking putting greens and smooth headwinds to land in
- long finals with no low turns
- early transitions to downtubes
Try to find a discussion on one of these idiot forums geared towards increasing the "adventure" elements of what they're doing.
- "Anybody got some dodgy equipment for sale? How 'bout a one of those Stealths with the defective cross spars?"
- "Anybody wanna trade some kinked sidewires for my pristine ones?"
- "Is there any way to design these gliders to increase the likelihood of a tumble?"
- "I'd like to order a glider with all the sail panels in sky blue."
- "ROUND wheels?" Faggot."
- "Anybody know any launches with really poorly constructed and maintained ramps where the wire crews can't tell left from right?"
- "Does Cortland offer braided Dacron trolling line in a 120 pound flavor?"
- "Can somebody show me how to install a weak link such that the knot's not as well hidden from main tension in the line?"
- "Launch carts are for girls. I'm gonna run my glider into the air behind this Dragonfly. And let's wait for a good tailwind."
- "I've got an idea to liven things up in the gaggle this afternoon...
-- If your birth date is an odd number thermal clockwise.
-- If it's even, go counter."
- "I really hope that cu-nim sucks me up and spits me out upside down as part of a hailstorm and/or microburst."
- "Think I could catch a good rotor if I landed real close to that treeline?"
- "Anybody know any XC routes with no landing options beyond narrow dry riverbeds with large rocks strewn all over the place?"
- "Australia's getting old. Let's hold the 2015 Worlds in Afghanistan."
Bullshit.
Get well soon.
He won't.
mrcc - 2014/02/04 22:04:48 UTC
Auckland
Jonathan did you have a quick release clip attached to your drag chute bridle ?
Fuck this releasable drag chute bullshit. If you need to release it you didn't need to use it in the first place.
At any stage during the last thirty seconds of your flight considered using it ?
How much of this discussion have you bothered to read?
This may have produced a different outcome ?
Not flying into the ground may have produced a different outcome.
What do you think ?
Jesus H. Christ.
NMERider - 2014/02/04 22:22:09 UTC
Dennis,
I read the late Richard Feyman's book in which he lays out how we was recruited by the engineers who management refused to listen to at Morton-Thiokol in order to expose the true cause of the Challenger Disaster. I have not seen the movie. At least you understand what I mean by to fly aggressively.
NMERider - 2014/02/04 22:33:14 UTC
I always have a snap shackle attached to my drag chute in case things go all pear-shaped.
Things are already a bit pear shaped when you're landing in a situation in which you need a drag chute. And what do you think's gonna happen when you're landing in a situation in which you need a drag chute and you dump it?
I had no reason whatsoever to use it on Wednesday.
The snap shackle or the drag chute?
The drag chute functioned perfectly.
Exactly the way Zack Marzec's Rooney Link functioned perfectly on the afternoon of 2013/02/02 - when its breaking strength was reached it broke. A proven system that works and has an unbelievably long track record.
Yeah, damn those pesky safety devices!
Remember kids, always blame the equipment.
It was the pilot who needed to be released and not the drag chute. Haven't you ever watched a video where the plane doing a loop at an air show flies into the ground before pulling out and then bursts into flames? That's sort of like what I did.
'Cept without the loop part.
I really lost it there. Had I stuck to my protocols I would not have become my own worst enemy there.
My large drag chute gives a tremendous degree of control and allows very tight turns. I simply was not up to the task and following my protocols would have prevented this accident.
michael170 - 2014/02/05 00:09:39 UTC
NMERider - 2014/02/04 18:02:24 UTC
So not only did I injure myself needlessly, I did a disservice to my family and to the soaring community by failing to set a better example than the one I have now presented.
I'm delighted to read that you understand that concept, Jonathan.
I hope for you a one hundred percent recovery.
Won't happen. You'll hafta settle for the best possible recovery.
NMERider - 2014/02/05 00:20:16 UTC
Thank you brotha!
But more than a physical recovery I want to effect a change in values and philosophy in a way that I am far less likely in the future to drop my guard like I did on final glide Wednesday.
Go for the full physical recovery and quit flying if that deal is offered to you.
It was during final glide and minutes before my DBF that I was already on track for a bad outcome. The correction would have been to my mental attitude and then to my landing pattern plan once the other glider came in to land.
mario - 2014/02/05 02:55:27 UTC
Hey Jonathan, I'm glad you survived that ponding and hope that you heal quickly!!
And while you are still alive, let me thank you for your videos that have inspired me (not necessarily to emulate!) and your passion/love for our sport.
Pretty much everyone who's in it has a passion/love for it.
- That's not enough.
- I passionately despise what it's devolved into.
I've only known you to be open with your work like your drogue experiments, videos, mods on your equipment, and your mistakes.
Keep up the great work Jonathan.
- Who'd have ever thought of using a small parachute to butcher a glider's performance if it weren't for you?
- And just look at the how much you've accomplished already in making the sport safer in the short span of time you've been at it.
I'm thinking NAA Safety Award.
I think many of us have known ace pilots (not that I am saying you are one ) that paid the biggest price for something as stupid as a distraction before launch.
Like what? Launching unhooked? That NEVER happens because of a distraction before launch.
Let us be glad when our fellow pilots survive their mistakes...
I don't teach lift and tug, as it gives a false sense of security.
...especially as none of us are immune.
I know how to be immune from:
- unhooked launches
- blowing my flare timing
- weak link and release failures
- flying my glider into the ground with my drag chute deployed
motherfucker.
Since you mentioned Feynman (whom I knew), his conclusion to his report on the 1986 space shuttle accident can be modified from:
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled."
To:
"For a successful flight, reality must take precedence, for Nature cannot be fooled."
Goddam right. So ya got any comments on crap like:
If you fail to maintain the correct tow position (centered, with the wheels of the tug on the horizon), the weak link will break before you can get into too much trouble.
and why assholes who propagate crap like that don't get their ratings revoked?
and to quote Galileo Galilei:
"Eppur si muove" - Just not fast enough to get out of the way of that descent!!!!
All the best to getting "safely" back in the air soon.
Slope launch or aerotow, Jonathan was NEVER getting into the air safely. That won't change if/when he resumes flying.
Brian Horgan - 2014/02/05 03:28:53 UTC
my old man always said"your best friends may very well be the ones you think are against you"
Bummer your old man never taught you how to use shift and space keys.
It would give me great pause if Aron Sweepston(sorry for butchering your name) told me i was being hard headed.
How he never reamed you a new asshole for making statements like:
You did post this on a international forum,you had to expect some feedback.Im a okie redneck foul mouthed person who comes across harsh but if you reread my posts you get a sense that i give a fuck about you.
'Cause you FLY. Into the ground, of course, but nevertheless...
I suggest a Ryan Voight landing and launching clinic to get you straightened up.
NMERider - 2012/09/25 07:01:39 UTC
Why would CSS want that when his last landing clinic resulted in a broken arm to one of his students?
Hell man i swallowed my huge ego and took a clinic he threw,Mitch straighten me right out...
Same way he straightened out...
...Paul's nose?
...saved my life.
And what a wonderful thing that's been for the sport. Real bummer that Zack Marzec doesn't seem to have caught one of his little talks on Rooney Link pop recovery.
Mitch Shipley (T2C 144) crashed at launch after a weak link break. He tried to stretch out the downwind leg and then drug a tip turning it around and took out his keel (at least).
Enjoy your posts, as always, and find your comments solid, based on hundreds of hours / tows of experience and backed up by a keen intellect/knowledge of the issues when it comes to most things in general and hang gliding AT/Towing in particular. Wanted to go on record in case anyone reading wanted to know one persons comments they should give weight to.
I will appreciate that it is the tug pilot's call as to the maximum breaking strength of any so-called weak link system and not mine.
...room up Rooney's ass for both your noses.
You are one suborn motherfucker man!Im not going to tell you best wishes or any crap like that because i know your going to fly again.
And that's all that matters. Once he decides not to fly again he is NOTHING and NOTHING he says on the subject from that point on will ever again have any legitimacy.
Im glad you survived...
...taking...
...this fork in the road and i hope you have many more years of flying.
And if you don't then shut the fuk up.
Your friend Brian
A friend to every pilot he meets.
Richard Palmon - 2014/02/05 04:29:33 UTC
Aaron and Mtich or Mitch and Aaron (not to mention John Heiney) have similar landing styles. Call it old school. The modern approach to landings... is called commercial landing school to me.
Shake that money maker!
Yeah. If only Jonathan had had a good landing clinic that one would never have happened.
Harlan
) that paid the biggest price for something as stupid as a distraction before launch.
