instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

General discussion about the sport of hang gliding
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=30828
Sonora wings plane crash
Dave Pendzick - 2014/02/24 21:33:23 UTC

http://www.inmaricopa.com/Article/2014/02/24/pilot-killed-in-crash-at-ak-chin-regional-airport
Pilot killed in crash at Ak-Chin Regional Airport

Heard about this one, anybody have any info? Sorry for the AZ folks.
IdeFly - 2014/02/24 22:19:31 UTC

I am sorry to report the tragic loss yesterday of our comrade Mark Knight. He was a central pillar of our flying community and will be greatly missed. Truly a terrible loss. Naturally, our thoughts and prayers are with his family.
- How sorry were y'all to lose your comrade Bryan Bowker - from the sport anyway?

- Yeah, he probably WAS a central pillar of your flying community. Same way the Ridgely shits all became central pillars of the flying community I had become a part of about eighteen years before they moved in and took over - with my enthusiastic support before I started figuring out what was going on.

- Yeah, everybody's thoughts and prayers are always with someone's family - for all the good that ever does.
Steve Morris - 2014/02/24 22:40:53 UTC

Davis is covering this in the OZ Report.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=36446
Mark Knight dies in Dragonfly crash
An eye witness reports:
Buzzing the field low to drop the tow rope after a busy day towing. Suddenly the nose went up very steeply, the plane turned left, three spirals then impact. Dragonfly hasn't been moved. Not sure if linkage broke or what happened to cause the nose to rise up."
Sounds to me like a rookie mistake. I'm sure Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney will be able to set us all straight on this one.
It's terribly sad indeed, Mark was a wonderful person...
No.
...and a skilled pilot.
Who cares?

The only wonderful people and real pilots in this sport are hated beyond all measure. If he'd been a wonderful person and real pilot who gave a shit about anything he'd have been helping me dismantle Dennis, Rooney, Davis, Matt, Trisa...
I feel great sympathy for his family.
Knock yourself out.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=16384
Tow Release Malfunction
bisleybob - 2010/03/26 19:08:27 UTC

now imagine a release that can never in no way jam up
Jim Rooney - 2010/03/26 20:54:43 UTC

Dude, quit bogarting that stuff ;)
How's it go? Never say never.

Bent pin releases are indeed very very reliable. But 100%? Nope. It's exceptionally rare, but they jam. All mechanical things do.
Now imagine a Dragonfly control system that can never in no way jam up or fatigue and break.
Dude, quit bogarting that stuff. ;)
How's it go? Never say never.

Dragonfly control system are indeed very very reliable. But a hundred percent? Nope. It's exceptionally rare, but they jam up and fatigue and break. All mechanical things do. Shit happens and there's really nothing one can do about it. That's why Dragonflies have ballistic parachutes and hang gliders have 130 pound Greenspot instant hands free releases and hook knives. Those safety systems work great - as long as you're nice and high.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22660
What can be learned from this "scooter" towing accident?
Jim Rooney - 2011/02/06 18:35:13 UTC

The minute someone starts telling me about their "perfect"system, I start walking away.
The minute someone starts telling me about his "perfect" control system, I start walking away.

Fuck you, Jim.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=30828
Sonora wings plane crash
Sam Schippers - 2014/02/25 00:03:12 UTC
Tonopah, Arizona
Philip Schippers - 86553 - H2 - 2013/11/08 - Mark Knight - FL ST 360 FSL
Mark and his school took very good care of me for all of my hg training. His persistence, patience and skill kept me from giving up. He was the reason I made the dream of hang gliding come true for me.
Are you sure you've developed into a safe pilot, competent in the basics?

- Mark was on site when Kunio Yoshimura went off Mingus unhooked on 2008/08/30. Did Mark have you comply with USHGA's hook-in check regulation or did he just tell you to make sure you did a hang check when the fuck ever before you got up on the ramp?

- Are your FEELINGS about weak link ratings in synch with his?

- What did he tell you about that total no brainer of the Zack Marzec fatality and how to prevent a rerun? If he told you that all you needed to do was use a two point bridle and/or a one and a half G weak link how come he didn't step into the discussions and tell assholes like Rooney, Davis, Brad Gryder, Bill Cummings they were full of shit?

- The release that he's using on the tandem is such a piece of shit that it was denounced by one of the coauthors of the excellent book, Towing Aloft, by Dennis Pagen and Bill Bryden - which recommended it and featured it on the cover. It's killed a bunch of people. Are you suffering from the delusion that he's using the best available equipment or do you just not give a rat's ass?
I trusted him so much that when it came time for my two daughters (one 24 yrs old and one 10 yrs old) to fly, it was Mark who I trusted.
I don't trust myself when I fly me. Trusting people in this game is a really crappy idea. Any thoughts on this video?:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYe3YmdIQTM


I'd only trust that motherfucker with someone I strongly disliked.
I and all of us in AZ will miss you Mark.
Maybe in New Mexico not so much.
Fletcher - 2014/02/25 00:51:57 UTC

This is horrible!
Mark was one of the kindest people I knew.
How many people do you know and do they all fly hang gliders?
This man lived to fly and help others to do so.
He never lifted a goddam finger in protest of my coast to coast blacklisting or gave me any covering fire when all his asshole buddies were ganging up on me and getting me silenced off of all the mainstream forums. And after I spent gawd knows how many hours trying to drive the concept that heavier gliders need heavier weak links through his thick skull he presented my work as his own.
A major loss to the flying community and mankind in general.
I'll figure out some way to deal with it.
Rest in Peace my brother.
How interested is everyone in finding out what went wrong with the Dragonfly control system and getting the problem fixed?
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=30534
Training in Phoenix
Tom Emery - 2013/12/24 15:49:48 UTC
San Diego

Bought a hang glider from Mark at Sonora Wings. He was selling it for someone else. The glider had a frayed wire at the kingpost pulley. Had I not spotted this upon inspection he would have sold me the glider with an obvious problem.

He agreed to order a new wire (at no cost). Six weeks went by. I called him several times. He finally got the wire. Guess what? He ordered the wrong wire.

I'd had enough. I had Rob (High Adventure) order the right wire. It was ordered and installed in under a week. Then I had an issue with reimbursement from Mark. Altogether not a very professional relationship. If he flies with as little attention as he showed me, watch out.
Sixty-one days. May be entitled to a pretty solid toldyaso.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=30828
Sonora wings plane crash
Larry Howe - 2014/02/25 05:32:53 UTC

I could be wrong, but the amount of fatals involving Dragonflies per Dragonfly flying would have grounded any certified aircraft. Maybe we need to spend a little more time analyzing is this just a bad design aircraft.
http://www.questairforce.com/aero.html
Aerotow FAQ
Weak Link

The strength of the weak link is crucial to a safe tow. It should be weak enough so that it will break before the pressure of the towline reaches a level that compromises the handling of the glider but strong enough so that it doesn't break every time you fly into a bit of rough air. A good rule of thumb for the optimum strength is one G, or in other words, equal to the total wing load of the glider. Most flight parks use 130 lb. braided Dacron line, so that one loop (which is the equivalent to two strands) is about 260 lb. strong - about the average wing load of a single pilot on a typical glider. For tandems, either two loops (four strands) of the same line or one loop of a stronger line is usually used to compensate for nearly twice the wing loading. When attaching the weak link to the bridle, position the knot so that it's hidden from the main tension in the link and excluded altogether from the equation.

IMPORTANT - It should never be assumed that the weak link will break in a lockout.
ALWAYS RELEASE THE TOWLINE before there is a problem.
http://ozreport.com/3.066
Weaklinks
Davis Straub - 1999/06/06

During the US Nationals I wrote a bit about weaklinks and the gag weaklinks that someone tied at Quest Air. A few days after I wrote about them, Bobby Bailey, designer and builder of the Bailey-Moyes Dragon Fly tug, approached me visibly upset about what I and James Freeman had written about weaklinks. He was especially upset that I had written that I had doubled my weaklink after three weaklinks in a row had broken on me.

The problem with strong links (neither Bobby Bailey nor I was aware at the time of the US Nationals that pilots were doing this) is that they endanger the tug pilot. If the hang glider pilot goes into a lock out, and doesn't break the weaklink (because there isn't one), they can stall the tug.
http://ozreport.com/5.126
Flytec Dragonfly
USAFlytec - 2001/07/14

Steve Kroop - Russell Brown - Bob Lane - Jim Prahl - Campbell Bowen

The tail section of the Dragonfly is designed so that it can accept in-line as well as lateral loads. Furthermore the mast extension, which is part of the tow system, is designed to break away in the event of excessive in-line or lateral loads. The force required to cause a breakaway is roughly equivalent to the force required to break the double weaklink used on the tail bridle. More simply put, the mast would break away long before any structural damage to the aircraft would occur.
http://ozreport.com/9.022
Worlds organization critique - a response
Davis Straub - 2005/01/25

Weaklinks are a big issue. The problem is that pilots "learn" to make stronger and stronger weaklinks because they do not want to have a weaklink break when it is dangerous (they are low and out of control) and they are penalized by the meet rules which put them to the back of the launch line after they land. Bill Moyes lost eleven spectra ropes the first two days of the Worlds because the pilots' weaklinks were a lot stronger than the ones at the tug end.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=559
Protow vs. weaklink
Davis Straub - 2005/02/21 10:44:27 UTC

Paris wrote:
At Quest, for solo tows, we use two strands (one loop) of a 130. Lb line on one end of a v-bridle, with the knots "buried" to try to remove them from the equation. You'd think this would allow for nearly 520 lb. Of actual tow force, though I never personally measured it and would guess that it's significantly less than this.
http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3600
Weak link question
Jim Rooney - 2008/11/23 19:42:44 UTC

The tug uses 3 strand and so all this talk about using a stronger one is academic.
You don't get to have one that's equal or stronger.

See we've got a system that has an extremely solid track record.
Jim Rooney - 2008/11/23 22:28:30 UTC

If you can find one, more power to you.

Just keep in mind if you do, you need to be weaker than the tug's link... not equal to. You will need to talk it over with any tug pilot that you tow behind. Anything less is unethical. And just as you have the right to refuse a tow from any tugger, they have the right to refuse to tow you... for any reason what so ever.
Jim Rooney - 2008/11/24 18:54:27 UTC

I'm confused. I never said the tug's ass was endangered. That's why we use 3strand at the tug's end. Using 4 strand can rip things off (it's happened). When forces are achieved that do break a 3 strand, your tail gets yanked around very hard, which does have implications as to the flight characteristics and flightpath. AKA, I have no desire to allow you to have the ability to have that effect on me when I tow you... esp near the ground.
Towing Aloft - 1998/01

I witnessed a tug pilot descend low over trees. His towline hit the trees and caught. His weak link broke but the bridle whipped around the towline and held it fast. The pilot was saved by the fact that the towline broke!
Bill Moyes, Bobby Baily, and all the pin bending assholes constituting the Dragonfly industry and culture are total fucking morons. This shit is rotten to from the core. Rip it down, figure out which way is up, start over doing it right.
Or will we continue to look the other way because it's one of the few games in town for towing HG.
You mean the way everybody did after Keavy went down?
How long do you think they'd put up with Super Cubs and Pawnees crashing and killing sailplane tow pilots if they had this rate of fatals?
Conventional aviation...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
Jim Rooney - 2011/08/25 04:55:25 UTC

It always amazes to hear know it all pilots arguing with the professional pilots.
I mean seriously, this is our job.
We do more tows in a day than they do in a month (year for most).

We *might* have an idea of how this stuff works.
They *might* do well to listen.
Not that they will, mind you... cuz they *know*.
...isn't controlled by unregulated off the scale stupid little shits like Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney and...

http://ozreport.com/12.081
Weaklinks - the HGFA rules
Davis Straub - 2008/04/22 14:47:00 UTC
Pilots must use weaklinks provided by the meet organizers and in a manner approved by the meet organizers. All weaklinks will be checked and use of inappropriate weaklinks will require the pilot to go to the end of the launch line to change the weaklink.

Weaklinks will consist of a single loop of Cortland 130 lb. Greenspot braided Dacron Tolling line and should be placed at one end of a shoulder bridle.
...Davis Straub.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=14312
Tow Park accidents
Jack Axaopoulos - 2009/11/12 14:49:58 UTC

gasdive,

One of the stated goals of this site is to promote HG. MOST views on this site are NOT from members but from visitors, they have no ignore button.

Having Tad run around every day giving the impression that there is a massive weekly slaughter of pilots at tow parks due to their horribly dangerous devices surely doesnt promote HG. Especially when the safety records are quite excellent.

Like Jim said, theyve gone a decade with no fatalities at their tow park. Pretty damn good I say.

Yet listening to Tad, you would think guys were dying all over the place
He's been nothing but misleading and negative and ignored multiple warnings from me. So He's GONE
Why don't you start running your idiot mouth again - pigfucker?
NMERider - 2014/02/25 06:56:49 UTC

You would have to bring up the trump cards wouldn't you? Image I brought this up last night in a conversation with an eye-witness to the crash and it was a sore topic.

Do you know how many pilots have been killed...
Actual PILOTS? Precious few would be my guess.
...flying Wills Wing Sport 2s?
After skimming the LZ, suddenly having the nose go up steeply, turning left, making three spirals, and slamming in? I dunno... Fifteen, maybe twenty tops?
The number might shock you.
Yeah...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25321
Stop the Stupids at the USHPA BOD meeting
Mark G. Forbes - 2011/09/30 23:21:56 UTC

Here's how it really works:

- Member submits an accident report. Could be the pilot who had the accident, or some other witness.

- Accident report is sent to Tim to maintain legal privilege. Tim reviews the report and determines whether there's significant legal risk associated with it. He may redact certain parts (personally identifiable information, etc.) if in his opinion exposure of that information poses a risk to us. If the report is very risky, he may decide that it can't be shared further, and will notify the ED about it. He may also notify our insurers if he sees a potential for a claim, as is normal practice for any incident where we are aware of such a potential.

- Redacted report goes to the accident review chairs, for incorporation into periodic articles in the magazine. Articles focus on root causes of accidents, not on personal narratives or details.
It probably would. It's not like it was in the old days when we had people like Robert Wills and Doug Hildreth working their asses off to identify and fix systemic problems - instead of a national organization and its lawyer doing the precise opposite.
Maybe Wills Wing should cease production?
Maybe Wills Wing should get off its sleazy ass and get people doing hook-in checks and wheel landings, building releases into their gliders, specifying weak link ratings for their glider models, and cutting off dealerships who tow in flagrant violation of FAA regulations.
Yes, there have been a lot of Dragonfly fatalities. I don't know the answer and won't pretend either.
Rookie mistakes. Just listen to Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney.
But these tugs get a tremendous amount of use and probably abuse.
Combine that with crap engineering and you could have some real serious problems.
They go through a huge number of duty cycles and many get disassembled then reassembled after being trailered long distances.
- That's why we have shit like preflight inspections and maintenance schedules.
- Right. That would explain what happened with Keavy and Mark.
- If that WOULD explain what happened with Keavy and Mark any halfway competent crash investigation would find and report it so.
I think it's just an occupational hazard and it's up to each and every pilot in command whether he or she chooses to operate his or her Dragonfly for commercial tug duty.
Right, Jonathan. It's just simply beyond human capacity to design a tug properly and inspect and maintain it for safe reliable operation. Space Shuttle - sure. On the two occasions when they were fried the issues were known beforehand. Goddam ultralight tug to pull two to five hundred pound hang gliders up to a couple grand? No fuckin' way.
And it's up to each and every hang glider pilot to decide for him or herself whether to be towed up behind one.
I don't. Bobby was too fucking stupid to build the back end for the job it was supposed to do and keep BOTH aircraft safe. But that doesn't have shit to do with the issue at hand.
Come what may. Image
Mark alive was just another threat to the sport. His death has just triggered a productive conversation and forced Jim...
Jim Rooney - 2011/08/26 08:24:31 UTC

Bobby's a fucking genius when it comes to this shit.
...Keen-Intellect Rooney, Davis...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24534
It's a wrap
Davis Straub - 2011/07/30 19:51:54 UTC

I'm very happy with the way Quest Air (Bobby Bailey designed) does it now.
...Straub, and Paul...
Paul Tjaden - 2011/07/30 15:33:54 UTC

Quest Air has been involved in perfecting aerotowing for nearly twenty years.
...Tjaden out of it.

We need fatal Dragonfly wrecks like this one 'cause they scare the crap out of these front enders who've taken over the sport - while very happily pissing all over the people who buy their toys for them and finance their flying - and force them to confront the fact that they've got a fundamental problem and don't know what the fuck they're doing or talking about.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=30828
Sonora wings plane crash
Davis Straub - 2014/02/25 09:21:17 UTC

The way one determines this is by a careful analysis of the cause of the accident.
- How can one do that unless one were there?

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks
Jim Rooney - 2013/03/05 19:42:58 UTC

My god my head hurts.

Wow...
So you know what happened then?
OMG... thank you for your expert accident analysis. You better fly down to FL and let them know. I'm sure they'll be very thankful to have such a crack expert mind on the case analyzing an accident that you know nothing about. Far better data than the people that were actually there. In short... get fucked.
Jim Rooney - 2013/03/07 18:24:58 UTC

You're the one advocating change here, not me.
I'm fine.

These are only questions if you're advocating change. Which I'm not. You are.

You're the one speculating on Zack's death... not me.
Hell, you've even already come to your conclusions... you've made up your mind and you "know" what happened and what to do about.
It's disgusting and you need to stop.
You weren't there. You don't know.
All you have is the tug pilot report, who himself says he doesn't know... and HE WAS THERE... and he doesn't know.
THE TUG PILOT WAS THERE... and he doesn't know.

- If a careful analysis can determine the cause of an accident can't it be used before the plane takes off to prevent it?
It would seem that there was some kind of a mechanical failure.
- What did it seem in the case of the Zack Marzec fatality at Quest? Was there kind of mechanical failure that preceded the tumble?

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec
Mark Frutiger - 2013/02/08 19:12:21 UTC

Zack hit the lift a few seconds after I did. He was high and to the right of the tug and was out of my mirror when the weak ling broke. The load on the tug was not excessive as with a lockout, but I was not surprised when the weak link broke. I was still in the thermal when I caught sight of Zack again. I did not see the entry to the tumble, but I did see two revolutions of a forward tumble before kicking the tug around to land. The thermal was still active in the area that I had just launched from so I did a go round and landed on a runway 90 degrees cross to the direction we were towing in.
Any design flaw, defective component known to...
Lauren Tjaden - 2003/12/14

This fall at Ridgely, I had a weak link break at maybe fifty feet. I thought I was going to have to land in the soybeans - the very tall soybeans - when I looked at my angle. But, my glider stalled quite dramatically almost instantly (hard not to stall when you have a break), and dove towards the ground (a bit disconcerting from so low).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1LbRj-NN9U
Mitch Shipley - 2011/03/20

If you take this away that angle goes from there to now there and the... You're stalled. You're stalled.
You know... You're plowing through the air.
And no longer can you...
So you immediately... When you lose this coforce you have to adjust the angle of attack, gain speed down...
...precipitate stalls?

- What did it seem in the case of the Keavy Nenninger fatality at Ridgely?

http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief.aspx?ev_id=20110723X95952&key=1
National Transportation Safety Board - 2011/08/02

According to a flight instructor who was towed aloft by the airplane with his student in a tandem configured hang glider, it was "hot and sticky" that morning and he had briefed his student prior to the flight that it would take a longer ground roll than normal to takeoff. After they took off in tow, the flight instructor climbed the glider up to an altitude of about 15 feet above ground level (agl) behind the airplane. During the tow he observed that the airplane did not lift off until it was near the end of the grass runway. As the airplane reached the end of the runway, he saw the towline "release" from the airplane. He also observed that as the airplane reached an adjacent soybean field, that the airplane was "tickling the beans with its wheels". The flight instructor then continued straight ahead and executed a landing to that same soybean field. Then as he and his student were getting out of their harnesses. He heard the airplane above him. It was "really loud" and he wondered what the pilot was doing. Moments later he heard the airplane impact the ground behind him.

According to a witness, after the release, the airplane began to turn left while climbing until it had completed a 270 degree turn, and reached a peak altitude of approximately 200 feet agl. It then "dropped into a spin" and impacted the ground in an approximately 45 degree nose down attitude.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27909
Dragonfly Accident at Lookout
Jim Rooney - 2012/06/09 03:05:22 UTC

BTW, you have no need or use of reminding me of the other tug pilot that we lost.
She was a friend of mine and an exceptionally close friend of my mates.
You will likewise not be able to inform me of anything regarding her accident.
Allow me to inform you.
She was a rookie and it was a rookie mistake made under duress and extremely low.
And your little string thing wouldn't have done jack shit in her case either.
A rookie mistake made under duress and extremely low?
At low altitude so that the parachute could not be deployed in time.
Bummer...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec
Paul Tjaden - 2013/02/07 23:47:58 UTC

Due to the extremely low altitude, there was no time for the pilot to deploy his reserve parachute.
...dude. Guess that's why Dr. Trisa Tilletti specified in the USHGA aerotowing SOPs that tandem weak link break simulation training...
The United States Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association, Inc. - 2013/02/07
Standard Operating Procedure
12. Rating System
02. Pilot Proficiency System
12. Hang Gliding Aerotow
-A. Aerotow

05. The candidate must also demonstrate the ability to properly react to a weak link/tow rope break simulation with a tandem rated pilot, initiated by the tandem pilot at altitude, but at a lower than normal release altitude. Such demonstrations should be made in smooth air.
...be conducted at high altitude and in smooth air. Certainly wouldn't wanna endanger the tandem aerotow instructor any more than necessary - we've been losing enough of them lately as things are.
Other accidents have occurred due to improper assembly...
IMPROPER assembly? That's what you call...

http://ozreport.com/7.098
2003/04/11
Image
Image

...missing the wing strut end fitting with the bolt?
...stalling the aircraft.
Undoubtedly because of a...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27909
Dragonfly Accident at Lookout
Jim Rooney - 2012/06/18 19:42:15 UTC

Not only is it realistic, it is also correct.
The pilot suffered a heart attack.

Let it go
...heart attack.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24546
Serious accident at SOGA
http://ozreport.com/forum/files/2_264.jpg
Image
A few accidents from pure pilot error.
- Oh. So stalling the aircraft isn't pure pilot error.
- How 'bout power failure on takeoff?
Dick Reynolds - 1992/11

Lookout Mountain Flight Park had acquired a new Moyes aerotug and I was the pilot - claiming 200 plus tows to date. At 11:00 AM on May 17, 1992 I had decided to take two more tows and then call it quits for the day.

The conditions on this particular morning were very light - great for towing. Takeoff went smoothly, with the glider then the tug lifting off, thus increasing my angle of climb. My airspeed was four mph above stall. I took my eyes off the indicator to watch the hang glider's progress when the engine abruptly seized. I can distinctly remember taking my hand off the throttle to wave the hang glider off, and it was at that point that I fully realized there was no time! I pulled the release and pushed the stick forward.

All this occurred somewhere around fifty feet. The combination of high nose angle plus the pull exerted by the climbing hang glider brought me to a screeching halt, so to speak. I believe my response time was less than a second, but this still me just hanging with very little elevator authority. The nose fell through the horizon to 30 degrees negative and the ground rapidly rushed toward me. I attempted to pull up at approximately 25 to 30 feet, with no response. My feet, butt, and gear impacted simultaneously.

I consider myself fortunate in that my friends were there to immobilize me. The doctors tell me that I'll be walking in a year or so, but that I shouldn't plan on winning any foot races.
http://www.ntsb.gov/AviationQuery/brief.aspx?ev_id=20121107X15820&key=1
NTSB Identification: CEN13LA055
On November 4, 2012, about 1245 eastern standard time, a Dragonfly-C, N667DF, experienced a total loss of engine power during takeoff, and collided with terrain near Darbyville, Ohio.
Image

I know that's a tough one to remember 'cause power failure on takeoff is about all the hang glider pilot has...

http://ozreport.com/12.081
Weaklinks - the HGFA rules
Davis Straub - 2008/04/22 14:47:00 UTC
Pilots must use weaklinks provided by the meet organizers and in a manner approved by the meet organizers. All weaklinks will be checked and use of inappropriate weaklinks will require the pilot to go to the end of the launch line to change the weaklink.

Weaklinks will consist of a single loop of Cortland 130 lb. Greenspot braided Dacron Tolling line and should be placed at one end of a shoulder bridle.
At the 2008 Forbes Flatlands Greenspot for the first time was used as the standard weaklink material (thanks in large part to the efforts of Bobby Bailey). We applaud these efforts to improve the safety of aerotowing by using a better weaklink material.
...to PREVENT serious crashes while the case is the precise opposite for the tug.
Wills Wing / Blue Sky / Steve Wendt / Ryan Voight Productions - 2007/03

NEVER CUT THE POWER...

Image

Reduce Gradually
Increase Gradually
Devilishly counterintuitive.
This would be the first fatal one that I remember that may be due to a mechanical problem other than improper assembly.
So you either don't remember Keavy...

ImageImage

...Nenninger or you're into the "rookie mistake" whitewash. Big fuckin' surprise.
Perhaps other people have more complete memories.
SURELY there must've been fifteen or twenty fatals as a consequence of inconsiderate bastards like...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15716
weak links
Davis Straub - 2009/04/26 22:05:31 UTC

Tad doesn't agree, but the rest of us no doubt do, that we are in a partnership with the tug pilot, and that he needs to be protected also, and therefore our weaklink has to be less than his.
...T** at K*** S****** using stronglinks heavier than the Dragonfly's...

http://ozreport.com/9.032
The Worlds - weaklinks
Davis Straub - 2005/02/07

For a couple of years I have flown with a doubled weaklink because, flying with a rigid wing glider, I have found that there is little reason to expect trouble on tow, except from a weaklink break.
...triple strander - especially with a couple seasons behind us since Morningside decided the were happy with two hundred pounders. That's just GOTTA BE the overwhelming 'cause of serious crashes now - and I really fear for the future of aerotowing.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec
Davis Straub - 2013/02/13 15:45:22 UTC

IMHO aerotowing is relatively safe compared with foot launching. I would certainly like to make it safer. What we would all like to know is what could we do to make it safer.

We have no agreement that a stronger weaklink would make it safer (again, I fly with a slightly stronger weaklink).
Go fuck yourself, Davis.
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Re: instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=30828
Sonora wings plane crash
Walt Conklin - 2014/02/25 14:09:47 UTC

Really really sad news. The Flats Race will never be the same.
Gawd I hope not...

http://ozreport.com/12.080
No one makes it back - Santa Cruz Flats Race, day two
Davis Straub - 2008/04/22 06:02:32 UTC
Casa Grande, Arizona

We were launching in light cross winds. I got on the cart but noticed that the back was too high. I ignored it and off we went. Then the glider was stuck to the cart. I finally jiggled it off the cart, but zoomed right up and blew the weaklink. Now I had to land down wind or cross wind. I tried hard as I could to get the glider to turn into the wind, but no luck (as I was only twenty feet high). So I just flared at the last second and that worked, although I was covered in dust.

I was not the only one breaking weaklinks as it seemed for a while every third pilot was having this problem. You've got to get the keel cradle set right.

Back on the cart again after a clean up and this time through the dust and into the air only to be knocked off the tug (I pulled the release) at 600'. The tug was going one way and I was going the other.
http://ozreport.com/12.083
Dusty - Santa Cruz Flats Race
Davis Straub - 2008/04/25 05:11:39 UTC

A novice competition flex wing pilot broke a weaklink on his second tow very low and got off at 300' on his tow. So that was further discouragement.
19-03703
http://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5529/14422573378_5385a9a99a_o.png
Image
Image
http://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2928/14422781117_a4a3b72ee6_o.png
20-03829
Rest in peace my brother. Condolences to family and friends.
Dave Hopkins - 2014/02/25 14:28:29 UTC

I agree with that. This is the first accident from a mechanical failure that I can remember. I don't remember the cause of the accident that killed the pilot at Highland a couple yrs ago.
Failing to effectively use her Dragonfly as a crumple zone.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
Jim Rooney - 2011/08/30 02:16:16 UTC

They're not here cuz they don't feel like arguing all the time.
Most of the other people "in the business" don't come here cuz it turns into a shouting match too often.

Look how uppity people got when I even termed people "in the business" "professional pilots".
It's accurate, but some got all offended. They couldn't stand that someone doesn't see their uninformed opinion as holding as much weight as an informed one.
I know (very) basic electronics, but I don't argue with the electrician about which capacitor he uses for the timing circuit in my toaster. It's just not my field.

I know a lot of regular joes that do the same... for the same reason. There's a lot of lurkers here that really really do not care to get sucked into the mud.

I can't blame them, I avoid this place on a regular basis.
It's a shame too, cuz there's a lot of really really nice people in HG. Most are.
And all this sewing circle, drama queen bullshit keeps a lot of very informed people away... ya'll miss out on a lot.
The actual "insider" discussions, that you never see, are so much better.
The people "in the business", the "professional pilots" understand what happened on that one. But these very informed people who have these actual "insider" discussions that we never see just don't wanna keep us up to speed on these things because they don't want any of us weekend warrior muppets questioning their informed opinions from their uninformed foundations.

So sometimes that word doesn't get spread as widely as it should and people like Mark end up going up unknowingly on aircraft with lethal design flaws. And I feel really bad whenever something like this happens because I understand these deaths are really our fault because we don't defer to the opinions of the people "in the business" as we should and thus we effectively stifle the circulation of lifesaving information.

But I also feel that USHGA bears some degree of responsibility here for failing to include ethics requirements in the Pilot Proficiency Program and teaching us not to ever question the opinions of people "in the business". As things are there's very little standing between us and total anarchy.
RIP Mark.
RIP Mark. And Zack Marzec, Charles Matthews, Keavy Nenninger, Chad Elchin, Arlan Birkett, Rob Richardson, Jamie Alexander, Bill Bennett, Mike Del Signore, Chris Bulger.
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Re: instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=4341
Mark Knight - R.I.P.
Donald Banas - 2014/02/24 22:38:56 UTC

Some of you may know Mark Knight as one the dragonfly tug pilots out of Arizona - he also worked the Santa Cruz Flats comp. Apparently he had a fatal accident late Sunday. No further details are available at this time.
Janyce Collins - 2014/02/25 03:11:45 UTC

from what his best friend, and torn-up witness, william bennett says, it was not his fault, it was some kind of dragonfly malfunction.
Yeah, it very likely WAS his fault. This plane was designed and engineered by a pin bending idiot and it's got a history of catastrophic control system failures. It's a pretty good bet that something failed as consequence of fatigue and that it could've been detected in the course of a careful inspection.

As pilots our butts are the ones that are on the line and it's our job to make sure everything's airworthy before we go up.
Towing Aloft - 1998/01

I witnessed a tug pilot descend low over trees. His towline hit the trees and caught. His weak link broke but the bridle whipped around the towline and held it fast. The pilot was saved by the fact that the towline broke!
The FAA regulation states:
A safety link is installed at the point of attachment of the towline to the towing aircraft with a breaking strength greater, but not more than 25 percent greater, than that of the safety link of the towed glider or unpowered ultralight vehicle end of the towline and not greater than twice the maximum certificated operating weight of the glider or unpowered ultralight vehicle.
Mark - like all of his colleagues - was making no effort whatsoever to comply with that requirement. He was putting a single weak link on the bridle above the tow ring and - thanks to Bobby Fucking-Genius Bailey - he's ALREADY got a weak link above the tow ring in the form of that idiot goddam tow mast breakaway. He's got NOTHING either below the tow ring or on the front end of the towline. With enough monkeys and typewriters that WILL kill somebody - and I hope I live long enough to see it happen.

If someone's not even responsible enough to comply with a simple no cost / all benefit black and white safety standard like that it's a pretty good bet that he's not doing checks which require a fair degree of time, effort, scrutiny.
yet, he died, doing what he most loved to do...
Augering in as a consequence of a control system failure.
...and quickly, almost instantaneously.
What fun.
What can we do? love our flights, and our friends, because, really, we are recreating in a war zone.
This is a war zone created by hang gliding and Dragonfly culture. It shouldn't and doesn't have to be one.
it could happen to any one of us, at any time...
If you believe that you shouldn't be flying - especially in a branch of aviation specializing in eliminating and shielding itself from safety standards whenever it can and violating them and getting away with it whenever it can't.
don't leave the l/z w/out being real with everyone you love!
For me that never takes much effort - but I really balance things out by being real with everyone I hate.
ok, probably a bit much, never mind...

and yet, it's THERE...
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Re: instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=28581
How to get banned from kitestrings.org ((tad drama)lol)
Tim May - 2013/03/12 20:00:43 UTC
Boston

gives people a bad rap

After asking on this forum for AT advice, I was sent a link to that kitestring website, where I then proceeded to read lots of Tad's posts. Not knowing who he was, or what he's about, I took him seriously.

I was looking at the time into receiving my AT rating from Sonora, which I did by the way, and it was awesome, and I read Tad's comments on instructor Mark Knight (saying he was an idiot and partly responsible for a fatality that happened at Sonora a while back, I think you all know the one I mean).

SO Tad Eareckson or whatever his name is, directly made me doubt whether I should learn to aerotow with Mark Knight.

I pulled the trigger and went. I never mentioned the accident, but Mark Knight did, he explained what he thinks happened (he was not at the scene), and he emphasized all the safety measures necessary to prevent this sort of thing from happening again.

My aerotow instruction was great. The course was effective, and I was thoroughly groomed in safety, which alleviated my initial concerns.

My advice: fly with Mark Knight if you want to get your AT for an excellent rate, with an excellent instructor that is together conservative, safety-minded, experienced, and focused.
Got any alternate recommendations, Tim?

- Quest - where they've been perfecting aerotowing for twenty years?

- Morningside - where they decided they were happy with something 54 percent heavier than what Quest had spent twenty years perfecting?

- Cloud 9 - where they have very high expectations for the performance of their weak links?

- Cowboy Up - where they don't give a shit about weak link breaking strength anymore and just want their weak links to break every once in a while?

- Manquin - which teaches tow operators to NEVER CUT THE POWER and uses standard aerotow weak links to keep pilots safe?

- Lockout - where they sell releases that aren't warranted as suitable for towing anything and hook knives to guarantee that you'll be fine no matter what?

- Foothills - where they teach you how to swing your body way outside the control frame so it stays up there while you reach out with one hand and release?

- Ridgely - which made Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney the man he is today and Keavy Nenninger a lifeless heap?

So who do you think gave Mark the biggest bad rap? T** at K*** S****** or...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=30828
Sonora wings plane crash
Larry Howe - 2014/02/25 05:32:53 UTC

I could be wrong, but the amount of fatals involving Dragonflies per Dragonfly flying would have grounded any certified aircraft. Maybe we need to spend a little more time analyzing is this just a bad design aircraft.
...Bobby Bailey - who's a fucking genius when it comes to this shit?
Tom Emery - 2013/03/12 21:57:06 UTC

Sonora Wings, located south of Phoenix, Arizona was where I bought my Wills Wing Ultra Sport. I found Mark to be an honest, intelligent, concerned individual.
Intelligent enough to adopt for himself my recommendation to him for weak link strength five years after I made it, not concerned enough to back it for one single other individuals or denounce Rooney, Davis, Pagen, Matt, the motherfuckers from Cloud 9 or honest enough to credit T** at K*** S******.
I am choosy about who gets to influence my control over my life.
Yeah...
Suddenly the nose went up very steeply, the plane turned left, three spirals then impact.
Real bummer he wasn't.
I would have no reservations learning aero tow from him.
I advise people to ALWAYS have reservations about learning aerotow from ANYBODY - including myself. Nobody ever got slammed in as a consequence of too much suspicion and questioning.
"Una Bomber". Funny thing, that is what went through my mind when I went over to "Kite Strings" and read some posts.
Well, the guy managed to beat the FBI for a long time and only got nicked as a consequence of his brother's intervention.
Never met the guy.
Which guy? Ted or Tad?
No disrespect intended, but there seem to be a fair amount of bats circling inside that belfry.
Well, at least SOMETHING is still circling around in this belfry. And I've always had a great fondness and admiration for bats. They're really good at circling around and not slamming into stuff in really demanding environments.
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Re: instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=28581
How to get banned from kitestrings.org ((tad drama)lol)
Tim May - 2013/03/12 20:00:43 UTC

After asking on this forum for AT advice...
Why didn't you just read the excellent book, Towing Aloft, by Dennis Pagen and Bill Bryden - the official USHGA recommended manual for tow operators and instructors? Time tested and true. Still available from USHGA in its first edition form now after over sixteen years so you know they really nailed everything on the first shot.
I was sent a link to that kitestring website, where I then proceeded to read lots of Tad's posts. Not knowing who he was, or what he's about, I took him seriously.
- Why should it matter who someone is or what he's about - asshole? Bob Kuczewski's an evil lying control freak who doesn't give a flying fuck when one of his cult members kills another of his cult members. But this little gizmo:

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1146
Tow Force Diagram with "V" Bridle
Image

he programmed - even though of zero practical value to the sport - is one hundred percent accurate and nicely done.

- But not seriously enough to actually engage him to clarify any issues you may have had.
I was looking at the time into receiving my AT rating from Sonora, which I did by the way, and it was awesome, and I read Tad's comments on instructor Mark Knight (saying he was an idiot and partly responsible for a fatality that happened at Sonora a while back, I think you all know the one I mean).
Can you provide a quote to support that claim? Shouldn't be all that difficult - and I have a REAL PROBLEM with dickheads telling other dickheads what I've said.

No, wait...

http://www.hanggliding.org/wiki/HG_ORG_Mission_Statement
HG ORG Mission Statement - Hang Gliding Wiki
HangGliding.Org Rules and Policies

No posts or links about Bob K, Scott C Wise, Tad Eareckson and related people, or their material. ALL SUCH POSTS WILL BE IMMEDIATELY DELETED. These people are poison to this sport and are permanently banned from this site in every possible way imaginable.
You were pushing the Jack Show rules envelope pretty hard as things were. Probably a lot safer to paraphrase and distort Tad's positions. That's always been good Jack Show protocol.
SO Tad Eareckson or whatever his name is...
Good source work, Tim May - or whatever the fuck your name is. You don't seem to exist as a rated USHGA pilot.
...directly made me doubt whether I should learn to aerotow with Mark Knight.
Good. My goal is to make everybody doubt whether they should learn to aerotow with damn near all US, Canadian, British, Australian, New Zealand operations.
I pulled the trigger and went. I never mentioned the accident, but Mark Knight did, he explained what he thinks happened (he was not at the scene), and he emphasized all the safety measures necessary to prevent this sort of thing from happening again.
- So he thought it was probably a bad idea to take the tow ring off the end of the line, run a cheap piece of shit bridle through a loop of fishing line replacing the tow ring, and only have a bent pin barrel release at one end of the bridle? Wow, glad SOMEBODY was able to understand some of the flaws in that operation. Were you able to get his analysis of this one?:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaTu5Y4WBdY

18-3704
Image

I've been pretty nervous about landing at McClure ever since I saw it and I'd really like to know all the safety measures necessary to prevent that sort of thing from happening again.

- So how come he discussed that with YOU and didn't give the entire hang gliding community the benefit of his expertise and wisdom? Doesn't give a flying fuck about anybody who's not paying him? You think if I sent him twenty bucks he'd clue me in adequately?
My aerotow instruction was great.
Obviously.
The course was effective...
You're still here aren't you? That's way better than a lot of aerotow instruction program students, graduates, instructors, tug drivers can say.
...and I was thoroughly groomed in safety...
Especially with respect to the focal point of a safe towing system. So now when there's another raging controversy about the purpose of the standard aerotow weak link and its effectiveness in increasing the safety of the towing operation you'll be able to sit back in quiet amusement - just like former Towing Committee Chairman Steve Kroop always does whenever somebody slams in.

And if you go back for his advanced course he'll teach you how to pro tow and you'll understand enough about what's what and who's who to earn a StrongLink (SL) sign-off. (Just make sure you always inform your tug pilot, though. It changes the equation and he'll need to adjust his flying and emergency procedures accordingly.)

You should also take a landing clinic with Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=25536
Whoops! Snapped another tip wand :-O
NMERider - 2012/03/14 15:17:14 UTC

His one-technique-fits-all attitude espoused on the Oz Report Forum has become tiresome to read. It does not work in the fucked-up world of XC landings and weary pilots.
Christopher LeFay - 2012/03/15 05:57:43 UTC

January's canonization of Rooney as the Patron Saint of Landing was maddening. He offered just what people wanted to hear: there is an ultimate, definitive answer to your landing problems, presented with absolute authority. Judgment problems? His answer is to remove judgment from the process - doggedly stripping out critical differences in gliders, loading, pilot, and conditions. This was just what people wanted - to be told a simple answer. In thanks, they deified him, carving his every utterance in Wiki-stone.
He was a good friend of Mark's, has a one-size-fits-all attitude and thought-free approach beyond compare, and will also tell you just what you want to hear.
...which alleviated my initial concerns.
I'm SURE it did. Me... I take my students' initial concerns and amplify them - 'cause those are about the best fundamental tools they can have to maximize their chances for long, safe, rewarding careers as pilots.
My advice: fly with Mark Knight if you want to get your AT for an excellent rate, with an excellent instructor that is together conservative, safety-minded, experienced, and focused.
And I'll bet he even had one of those little red "FOCUSED PILOT" rubber wristbands from USHGA. Image

I hope his family buries him with it still on his wrist. I'm sure he would've wanted it that way.
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