instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

General discussion about the sport of hang gliding
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=28581
How to get banned from kitestrings.org ((tad drama)lol)
Tom Emery - 2013/03/12 21:57:06 UTC

I found Mark to be an honest, intelligent, concerned individual.
Yeah?
Orion Price - 2013/03/12 15:20:37 UTC

Wow, that was the weirdest thing I've ever seen. 71 pages of .... well you can see what it is. The ignorant building an obelisk to the unknown. Weird world out there.

As you can plainly see from the schematic below:
Image

Why? Who would spend the time to make this shit.
And here's Mark's take on that document:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TUGS/message/943
weak link material question
Mark Knight - 2008/04/25 15:05:46 UTC

I have read moustraps. All info is good.
So at least one of those two individuals is totally full of shit. And thank you so very much for casting YOUR vote on the side of T** at K*** S******.

And Tim... You're so very welcome for whatever my portion of efforts to educate Mark on hang glider aerotowing competency and safety were passed on down to you.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30912
Death at Quest Air
Jim Rooney - 2013/02/03 10:57:17 UTC

I hate getting "that" phone call. I got it this morning.
So have you gotten one about Mark Knight yet? I thought we might have heard something from you by now.
I'm considering becoming an asshole.
That must be it. You must have become an asshole sometime in the span of the year plus two weeks since the previous one of your tandem aerotow instructor buddies bought it on...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24534
It's a wrap
Paul Tjaden - 2011/07/30 15:33:54 UTC

Quest Air has been involved in perfecting aerotowing for nearly twenty years.
Davis Straub - 2011/07/30 19:51:54 UTC

I'm very happy with the way Quest Air (Bobby Bailey designed) does it now.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
Jim Rooney - 2011/08/26 08:24:31 UTC

Bobby's a fucking genius when it comes to this shit.
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=30828
Sonora wings plane crash
Larry Howe - 2014/02/25 05:32:53 UTC

I could be wrong, but the amount of fatals involving Dragonflies per Dragonfly flying would have grounded any certified aircraft. Maybe we need to spend a little more time analyzing is this just a bad design aircraft.
...Bobby Bailey designed gear at a mainstream aerotow operation.
With all the nice people dying...
...and T** at K*** S****** who...
Jim Rooney - 2011/08/25 06:29:21 UTC

I'm happy to know that I am in fact speaking with Steve, not Tad.
Tad makes my skin crawl.
...makes your skin crawl and, despite having made hundreds of flights on homemade gear in midday conditions, is still alive and kicking...
...it just seems safer.
And "Safety" is and always has been your middle name, especially...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3600
Weak link question
Jim Rooney - 2008/11/24 05:18:15 UTC

Well, I'm assuming there was some guff about the tug pilot's right of refusal?
Gee, didn't think we'd have to delve into "pilot in command"... I figured that one's pretty well understood in a flying community.

It's quite simple.
The tug is a certified aircraft... the glider is an unpowered ultralight vehicle. The tug pilot is the pilot in command. You are a passenger. You have the same rights and responsibilities as a skydiver.
It's a bitter pill I'm sure, but there you have it.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks
Jim Rooney - 2013/03/05 01:32:20 UTC

Btw, it's nothing to do with you "counting" on the weaklink breaking... Its about me not trusting you to hit the release.
If it were only about what you want, then you could use what you like.
You want the strongest weaklink you can have.
I want you to have the weakest one practical.. I don't care how much it inconveniences you.
I don't trust you as a rule. You Trust you , but I don't and shouldn't.
The Press - 2006/03/15

The Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) is urgently pushing for new hang-gliding industry standards after learning a hang-gliding pilot who suffered serious injuries in a crash three weeks ago had not clipped himself on to the glider.

Extreme Air tandem gliding pilot James (Jim) Rooney safely clipped his passenger into the glider before departing from the Coronet Peak launch site, near Queenstown, CAA sports and recreation manager Rex Kenny said yesterday.

However, he took off without attaching himself.

In a video, he was seen to hold on to the glider for about fifty meters before hitting power lines.

Rooney and the passenger fell about fifteen meters to the ground.
...where your passengers are concerned.
So kiss my ass.
This:

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=16265
weaklinks
Kinsley Sykes - 2010/03/18 19:42:19 UTC

In the old threads there was a lot of info from a guy named Tad. Tad had a very strong opinion on weak link strength and it was a lot higher than most folks care for. I'd focus carefully on what folks who tow a lot have to say. Or Jim Rooney who is an excellent tug pilot. I tow with the "park provided" weak links. I think they are 130 pound Greenspot.
Kinsley Sykes - 2011/08/31 11:35:36 UTC

Well actually he didn't. But if you don't want to listen to the folks that actually know what they are talking about, go ahead.
Feel free to go the the tow park that Tad runs...
do it for ya?
I met Zach up at Morningside.
- You mean the flight park that decided they were happy with a weak link 54 percent heavier than the one that had dumped six gliders in a row in light morning conditions at Zapata in 2011 and just dumped your buddy into a fatal whipstall?

- And you met Mark Knight...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=32824
Weaklink testing

...at Casa Grande where you dickheads finally got around to testing loops of different flavors of fishing line, finding they were blowing at half the strengths you've been assuming and telling everyone they did and where Mark suddenly decided he was happy with what Morningside, at the beginning of the 2012 season, suddenly decided they were happy with and T** at K*** S****** advised him to be happy with...

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TUGS/message/935
Tad Eareckson - 2008/04/23 11:06:57 UTC

If you must use the 130 pound Cortland Greenspot, a double loop on the end of the bridle is a lot better one-size-fits-all than a single.
...on 2008/04/23?
Zach was hard not to like... and hard not to like instantly.
But hard to kill instantly. Might have made it all the way to the hospital. Pretty impressive considering the towing gear and open face helmet he was using.
He will be sorely missed.
But everybody seems to have gotten over it pretty quickly. Haven't heard much about him in the past year from Quest, Kitty Hawk, Morningside, The Davis Show since Davis locked all the threads down and warned people not to discuss him any more.

C'mon Jim. Stop being an asshole for long enough to revert to the old Jim we all knew and loved...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1238
NZ accident who was the pilot?
Lauren Tjaden - 2006/02/21 20:37:39 UTC

I thought I should post this since the phone keeps ringing with friends worried about Jim and wanting information. Here is what I know. Yes, the Jim in the article is OUR Jim, Jim Rooney. It was a tandem hang gliding accident, and it involved a power line. I have no more information about the accident itself. The passenger apparently was burned and is hospitalized, but is not seriously injured. Jim sustained a brain injury. He was and is heavily sedated, which means the doctors don't know and can't test for how serious the brain injury is. He is in critical but stable condition. Tomorrow (which should begin soon in NZ) the doctors will begin to reduce his medication, and they will have more information at that time. There are no neck or spinal injuries. This information has been passed on to me through a chain of several people, so while I think it is all accurate, I am not sure. Lisa from Quest is in contact with Jim's family and also with Jim's employers in NZ. She will send hospital information so you can send good wishes. She will also keep us updated on the most current news about Jim. In the meantime, please do not call NZ or Lisa at Quest. This is a difficult time as many of us love Jim very much, and I know you are all anxious for news, as we are.
...OUR Jim - and give us a few words from your heart about your ol' buddy Mark.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22308
Better mouse trap(release)?
Jim Rooney - 2010/12/15 23:30:11 UTC

There does tend to be a lot of "Reinventing The Wheel" that goes on when people try to "Build a Better Mousetrap".
- Ya know why that is?

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
Jim Rooney - 2011/08/26 07:51:12 UTC

We've been at this a long freaking time. You haven't.
All these "ideas" that people propose, we've already been through... a number of times.

Don't you think that the people that do this day in and day out have maybe... I don't know... ALREADY THOUGHT OF THAT?

We did.
A long time ago.
Not only have we thought this stuff through seven different ways to sunday, we've tested a bunch of this shit too. And some of it's the stuff that you haven't even gotten around to realizing yet.

This is fine and dandy if you realize and accept that you are quite literally experimenting with your life.
As over the top as that sounds, it's pretty damn accurate.

I get called a wet blanket a lot, and that's ok. But I've seen a lot of my friends try to put themselves in the hospital "experimenting" with this stuff.

Please realize that there are hidden issues with all this stuff.
It is by no means as straight forward as it looks.
It's because Bobby Bailey - who's a fucking genius when it comes to this shit - is constantly working in his secret underground laboraties at Quest to expand from the capacities and performance of the exquisite designs he bestowed upon us over twenty years ago. He'll experiment with a straight pin barrel release and find that, while it's got well over three times the performance of his unbelievably popular bent pin standard, it doesn't close very neatly over a really thick rope with no weak link on its end.

But then he doesn't publish his findings and only shares this information with elite members of the Priesthood - such as yourself.

And then some weekend warrior muppet like T** at K*** S****** will come up with the idea of a straight pin - foolishly and arrogantly believing it to be original - and start pumping out units. Then somebody will show up at the flight line and try to close the pin over a thick rope. And then he'll put a weak link on the end to make it easier and thus double the towline pressure required to blow tow, his weak links will no longer break when they're supposed to, and he'll lock out and die - killing the tug in the process of course.

So I don't know why you don't just publish the findings of your experiments so we'll all realize how remote our chances of improving anything are, throw in the towel, and...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks
Jim Rooney - 2013/03/03 19:37:19 UTC

It saddens me to know that the rantings of the fanatic fringe mask the few people who are actually working on things.
...cease doing such damned good jobs of masking the few people who are actually working on things - like using more severely bent pins to close more easily over even thicker ropes.

- Win/Win, dude. What's the problem?
Jim Rooney - 2010/12/16 18:47:05 UTC

Oh, I've heard the "everything we do is an experiment" line before.
The trouble is, it's not.

I've seen experimentation with towing gear more than anything else in HG.
I've not seen many go out and try to build their own sails for example. When someone does, they're very quickly "shown the light" by the community. Example... the guy that was building the PVC glider in California somewhere.
But for some reason, towing gear is exempt from this.

The difference is what we do has been done by thousands of people already. It's been tested... a lot.
What we do is free of the experimentation part.
Right. You don't put a piece of equipment into the air until it's had a minimum of ten thousand flights in midday conditions on it. Then and only then do you risk putting it in the air.
It's still dangerous, but not at the level of building new gear is. Not even close.
Obviously. You've seen experimentation with towing gear more than anything else in hang gliding. So obviously you've seen more carnage resulting from experimentation with towing gear more than anything else in hang gliding.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=22176
Paragliding Collapses
Jim Rooney - 2011/06/12 13:57:58 UTC

Most common HG injury... spiral fracture of the humerus.
It's experimentation with towing gear that's producing all those humerus spiral fracture. And STILL people won't stop experimenting with towing gear. This is total insanity.
Jim Rooney - 2010/12/16 18:47:05 UTC

A few years ago, I started refusing to tow people with home made gear.
I like the idea of improving gear, but the lack of appreciation for the world they were stepping into didn't sit with me.
For example... flying with the new gear in mid day conditions?
Are you kidding me????
At least we have you taking a stand and giving us a ray of hope.
That's what people fail to realize.
It's no small difference. It's a huge chasm.

Notice how I'm not saying to not do it.
Go forth and experiment. That's great... that's how we improve things.
I'm just warning you of that chasm.

A few years ago, I started refusing to tow people with home made gear.
I like the idea of improving gear, but the lack of appreciation for the world they were stepping into didn't sit with me.
For example... flying with the new gear in mid day conditions?
Are you kidding me????

Approach it for what it is... completely untested and very experimental gear which will likely fail in new and unforseen ways as it tries it's damndest to kill you... and then we can talk.
Yeah, let's talk. Here's a list of people who've been killed on and because of Bobby Fucking-Genius Bailey designed aerotow equipment:
1998/10/25 - Jamie Alexander
1998/10/25 - Frank Spears
1999/02/27 - Rob Richardson
2004/06/26 - Mike Haas
2005/01/09 - Robin Strid
2005/09/03 - Arlan Birkett
2005/09/03 - Jeremiah Thompson
2009/01/03 - Steve Elliot
2009/08/31 - Roy Messing
2011/07/23 - Keavy Nenninger
2011/10/28 - Lois Preston
2013/02/02 - Zack Marzec
2014/02/24 - Mark Knight
one of them behind Bobby Fucking-Genius Bailey. That's releases, weak links, and tugs. And you can throw in 2003/04/11 - Chad Elchin if you wanna count the mounting of the ballistic parachute.

Now you give me an instance of somebody being scratched as a consequence of "homemade"/"experimental" equipment.
Jim Rooney - 2010/12/16 20:01:12 UTC

No doubt man.
All true.

However, none of that changes the fact that there is a drastic difference between flying with production gear, as imperfect as it may be, and flying with completely untested gear.
What is it? How can one get killed more with "completely untested" gear than with production gear - especially seeing as how the deaths resulting from production gear tally to thirteen and those resulting from completely untested gear tally to zero?
Jim Rooney - 2010/12/18 20:12:54 UTC

Yes.
I love innovation. However, this isn't the type of thing that's "puzzled out" on the internet.
- Name some previous examples of experimental gear that have been "puzzled out" on the internet.

- If experimental gear HAS been "puzzled out" on the internet then what's the problem with that? It didn't come from Bobby Fucking-Genius Bailey working alone in his secret underground laboratories at Quest?
AKA, you're not going to figure it out here.
How the fuck would you know? Name some things that you've figured out that somebody else hadn't already decades before you started blighting the sport. You've never had a single original idea about anything at any point in your entire miserable existence.
This is real world engineering stuff.
And real world engineering stuff can't be communicated over the internet. Telephone, snail mail, telegraph, carrier pigeon, semaphore... All that'll work. Just not the internet - 'specially on the Jack and Davis Shows where anything based on math and science is instantly ripped to shreds and pissed all over.
Five minutes with Bobby Bailey is worth more than anything you're going to achieve here.
You must've spent at least ten minutes with him. Is that how you came up with the idea of pitching out abruptly to utilize a Bailey Link as an instant hands free release?
Pick your engineer of choice, Bobby's just a very good example.
I'm sorry, when was it that Bobby got his engineering degree and how many box tops did he hafta send in? Here's one of the more recent assessments of Bobby's qualifications as an engineer:

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=30828
Sonora wings plane crash
Larry Howe - 2014/02/25 05:32:53 UTC

I could be wrong, but the amount of fatals involving Dragonflies per Dragonfly flying would have grounded any certified aircraft. Maybe we need to spend a little more time analyzing is this just a bad design aircraft. Or will we continue to look the other way because it's one of the few games in town for towing HG. How long do you think they'd put up with Super Cubs and Pawnees crashing and killing sailplane tow pilots if they had this rate of fatals?
This is somebody who wets his pants with fear of a double loop of 130 pound Greenspot on a glider with one person clipped in but is totally cool with it if somebody else is going along for the ride.
You're asking a bunch of pilots...
...none of whom could POSSIBLY have engineering degrees or be competent practical engineers...
...to design a mechanism that needs to be extremely reliable...
Like...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=14230
pro tow set-up
Jim Rooney - 2009/11/02 18:58:13 UTC

Oh it happens.
I have, all the guys I work with have.
(Our average is 1 in 1,000 tows)

Oh yeah... an other fun fact for ya... ya know when it's far more likely to happen? During a lockout. When we're doing lockout training, the odds go from 1 in 1,000 to over 50/50.
...45 percent in emergency situations...
...but light.
OH SHIT!!! LIGHT. I never thought of that. I got my design up to 45 percent reliability but the thing weighs in at just under thirty pounds. And that puts my glider twenty pounds over max certified operating weight! DAMN! Back to the drawing board.
This is a tall tall order.
You're SO right.
And while that appeals greatly to the pilot ego, especially the tinkerer pilots, they're not the people that do this sort of thing.
Yep. Better just accept our status as passengers behind your tugs and...

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/skysailingtowing/message/4049
Towing errata
Bill Bryden - 2004/04/01 16:20:18 UTC

Some aerotow releases, including a few models from prominent schools, have had problems releasing under high tensions. You must VERIFY through tests that a release will work for the tensions that could possibly be encountered. You better figure at least three hundred pounds to be modestly confident.

Maybe eight to ten years ago I got several comments from people saying a popular aerotow release (with a bicycle type brake lever) would fail to release at higher tensions. I called and talked to the producer sharing the people's experiences and concerns. I inquired to what tension their releases were tested but he refused to say, just aggressively stated they never had any problems with their releases, they were fine, goodbye, click. Another person tested one and found it started getting really hard to actuate in the range of only eighty to a hundred pounds as I vaguely recall. I noticed they did modify their design but I don't know if they ever really did any engineering tests on it. You should test the release yourself or have someone you trust do it. There is only one aerotow release manufacturer whose product I'd have reasonable confidence in without verifying it myself, the Wallaby release is not it.
...leave this kind of critical work to Bobby Fucking-Genius Bailey - the one person on the planet capable of...

http://ozreport.com/9.009
2005 Worlds
Davis Straub - 2005/01/11

Rohan Holtkamp did an analysis of the accident, in particular the bridle and weaklink, which never broke. The weaklink was caught on the release mechanism, a standard spinnaker release found on bridle systems used at Lookout Mountain, Moyes, Wallaby Ranch, and Quest Air. The release clamp has an arm that is thicker at the release point and this held onto the weaklink which consisted of multiple loops of thick line.

This type of release mechanism has been banned (at least for a short while) from the Worlds at Hay.
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=11497
Aerotow release options?
Axel Banchero - 2009/06/20 04:57:01 UTC

I just kept hitting the brake lever for a few seconds in WTF mode, and the instructor used the barrel release.
...pulling it off successfully.
The end results always look simple, but the road to that simplicity is anything but.
Fuckin' brain dead little shit. I SO hope you're the next one to follow Keavy, Zack, and Mark back into the turf doing what you love on equipment Bobby Bailey has been perfecting for over twenty years.

Over three days now and not a peep. Twice in just over a year when one of you well liked professional pilot hotshots has bought it on Industry Standard equipment and none of you can open your mouths without looking like the total assholes you are. And just as many comments from Bobby and Bill Moyes as there were after Robin.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=36446
Mark Knight dies in Dragonfly crash
Steve Corbin - 2014/02/27 04:28:48 UTC

New post Control system redundancy

First, my sympathies to the family.

Now we all know that all the information isn't in yet.
Big surprise. None of the information is in yet on Keavy Nenninger and none of the information - that isn't total bullshit - is in on Zack Marzec.

Keep sitting on it guys. Now this policy of information suppression is starting to bite the people responsible for it in the ass. What goes around...
Yet it's looking to me like some type of failure in the elevator control linkage.
SURELY it was just another Rookie Mistake.
An experienced pilot "spinning in" points straight to a failure to be able to get the nose down.
What does Rookie Pilot Keavy Nenninger slamming in point straight to? How come you motherfuckers let Rooney get away with that statement?
Many moons ago I spent some time flying around in several different ultralight airplanes. This was while I was temporarily consigned to living in the flatlands, fortunately I was able to work my way back to mountainous Southern California.

One airplane I flew, that had no pitch-trim system, wanted to dive when no pressure was applied to the stick. On another occasion, the opposite occurred: The airplane wanted to "trim" at a higher AoA than was safe to fly to fly at.

In both of these cases, the owner/pilots shrugged it off, after all they weren't making hours-long XC flights, so an elevator trim system was basically seen as unnecessary.

But I see a trim system, using aerodynamic "trim tabs", as a valuable redundant control system.
Sorry, I'm sick and tired of all these soapbox bullshit assheads who feel the need to spout their shit at funerals.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec
Jim Rooney - 2013/02/11 19:22:18 UTC

Sorry, I'm sick and tired of all these soap box bullshit assheads that feel the need to spout their shit at funerals. I just buried my friend and you're seizing the moment to preach your bullshit? GO FUCK YOURSELF!!!!!!!!
We've just buried our friend and you're seizing the moment to preach your bullshit? GO FUCK YOURSELF!!!!!!!![/quote]
I can barely stand these pompus asswipes on a normal day.
I can barely stand these pompus asswipes on a normal day.
If any component in the primary system of controlling the elevator, rudder, or ailerons were to fail, then having a secondary "trim tab" or "servo tab" could easily make the difference between a good campfire story and a trip to the morgue.

A trim system using bungee cords is often seen, and so long as it is independent of the primary control linkage, it is a decent way of making long XC flights easier.

But when the bungee (spring) system is coupled to the primary linkage, it offers little or no redundancy.

It is my belief that these tugs should all be equipped with a system of control that will provide for a pilot's ability to safely land the airplane even when the "primary" system goes south.

I believe that a trim system, wholly separate from the primary control system, be integrated into these designs.

Yes, it'll add cost and weight, but these should be minimal. And the price of a life?
The price of Zack Marzec's life was about a penny or two. With that he could've purchased enough extra fishing line needed to be able to double his standard aerotow weak link. So how come you didn't chirp in on that one? Not challenging enough for ya?
It's different when folks are flying this type of aircraft solely for pleasure. But we've got fellow aviation "wingnuts" towing us up on weekends, just trying to put a few extra bux in the bank, and they're flying with little or no redundancy.
- They're not MY fellows.

- Speaking of redundancy...
Towing Aloft - 1998/01

I witnessed a tug pilot descend low over trees. His towline hit the trees and caught. His weak link broke but the bridle whipped around the towline and held it fast. The pilot was saved by the fact that the towline broke!
That total asshole was killed dead as a doornail for the purpose of the exercise. But it's still too goddam much trouble to put a another weak link on the bridle BELOW the tow ring - or on the towline behind it?
I'm not counting the reserve 'chute here.
Why not? We've got virtually all aerotowed hang gliders counting on their Bailey Links as emergency releases and hook knives as backup releases.
It so saddens me when a fellow aviator buys the farm (you young whippersnappers look it up), especially when it's considered how easy it would be to avoid it.
WHO THE FUCK DO YOU THINK YOU ARE? Don't you think that the people who do this day in and day out have maybe... I don't know...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
Jim Rooney - 2011/08/26 07:51:12 UTC

We've been at this a long freaking time. You haven't.
All these "ideas" that people propose, we've already been through... a number of times.

Don't you think that the people that do this day in and day out have maybe... I don't know... ALREADY THOUGHT OF THAT?

We did.
A long time ago.
Not only have we thought this stuff through seven different ways to sunday, we've tested a bunch of this shit too. And some of it's the stuff that you haven't even gotten around to realizing yet.
...ALREADY THOUGHT OF THAT? They did - a long time ago. Not only have they thought this stuff through seven different ways to Sunday (just last Sunday, as a matter o' fact), they've tested a bunch of this shit too. And some of it's the stuff that you haven't even gotten around to realizing yet.
Jim Rooney - 2013/02/12 18:00:27 UTC

Deltaman loves his mouth release.
BFD

I get tired as hell "refuting" all these mouth release and "strong link" arguments. Dig through the forums if you want that. I've been doing it for years but unfortunately the peddlers are religious in their beliefs so they find justification any way they can to "prove" their stuff. This is known as "Confirmation Bias"... seeking data to support your theory... it's back-asswards. Guess what? The shit doesn't work. If it did, we'd be using it everywhere. But it doesn't stand the test of reality.

AT isn't new. This stuff's been worked on and worked over for years and thousands upon thousands of tows. I love all these egomaniacs that jump up and decide that they're going to "fix" things, as if no one else has ever thought of this stuff?
Steve Corbin loves his redundant pitch control system. BFD.

But guess what. The shit doesn't work. If it did, we'd be using it everywhere. But it doesn't stand the test of reality - just like Keavy Nenninger, Zack Marzec, and Mark Knight didn't stand the test of reality.

AT isn't new. This stuff's been worked on and worked over for years and thousands upon thousands of tows. I love all these egomaniacs that jump up and decide that they're going to "fix" things, as if no one else has ever thought of this stuff. Go fuck yourself, Steve.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.inmaricopa.com/Article/2014/02/24/sunday-crash-pilot-died-mark-knight-sonora-wings-ak-chin-regional-airport
UPDATE: Pilot who died was 'flying for fun'
Kyle Daly - 2014/02/24 16:47

UPDATE: Pilot who died was 'flying for fun'

A tattered American flag hung at half-staff Monday afternoon on a pole positioned in an industrial lot just east of the Ak-Chin Regional Airport runway.

"It represents how we feel right now," said Paul Olson, who works at Sonora Wings, LLC, a hang gliding business that rents the lot on which the pole stands.

Tempe resident Mark Knight, owner of Sonora Wings, died Sunday evening when his fixed-wing single engine aircraft used to tug hang gliders fell from the sky and crashed into the dirt between the airport's taxiway and runway.

The Federal Aviation Administration and the National Transportation Safety Board are investigating the crash.

Knight was not pulling any gliders at the time, Olson said. It was the end of the day and the business owner wanted to take a ride.

"He was just flying for fun," he said.
Yep, hang glider people tend to fly hang gliders for fun and Dragonfly people tend to fly Dragonflies for fun. And the Dragonfly people start forgetting real fast what their job is and who's paying them to do it.
Olson said Sonora Wings has been in business for three years, but Knight, a certified flight instructor with thousands of hours flight time, had been flying since he was 18.
C'mon Jim. You've still got a shot for the "rookie mistake" whitewash. Take it. What've ya got to lose?
The Tempe resident was in his early fifties. He had a wife and an adult daughter.

Olson, who owns a hang gliding business in Wisconsin, worked with Knight for part of the year. He was at the airport Sunday when the plane went down.

He said Knight was about three hundred feet above the ground flying the Sabrena Dragonfly aircraft, heading northwest over the airport when the aircraft's "nose pointed up," lost control and spiraled to the ground. The incident took place around 6 p.m.
And here's what we were told previously:
Buzzing the field low to drop the tow rope after a busy day towing.
From three hundred feet you've got a pretty good shot at making a parachute work.
"It's too early to tell what went wrong," Olson said, referring to the investigation.
No shit. It's still too early to early to tell what went wrong with Keavy's Dragonfly two years and seven months prior to when Mark's went down. But...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25656
The young girl who died hang gliding solo
Jim Rooney - 2012/03/06 18:34:14 UTC

ND's onto it.

No one ever wants to wait for the accident investigation... they want to know "NOW DAMNIT!" and there's always a lot of self-serving arguments surrounding it.

And it's always the same.
The same damn arguments get drug up every time. And they're all just as pointless every time.

We have a system in place.
It works.
Let it work.

Our procedures are well established at this point in time and there are no gaping hidden holes that need to be addressed immediately.

RR asked what the status was.
ND's provided the answer (thank you).

Please take a deep breath. And wait.
Accident investigations involving fatalities take a long time. And by long, I mean they can take years.
(yes, years, I'm not kidding)

The sky is not falling.
What are ya gonna do?

Accident investigations involving fatalities take a long time. And by long, I mean they can take years. (Yes, years, I'm not kidding.)

No one ever wants to wait for the accident investigation... people want to know "NOW DAMNIT!" And there are always a lot of self-serving arguments surrounding it.

And it's always the same. The same damn arguments get drug up every time. And they're all just as pointless every time.

We have a system in place. It works. Let it work.

Our procedures are well established at this point in time and there are no gaping hidden holes that need to be addressed immediately. Please take a deep breath. And wait. The sky is not falling. I can't imagine more than two or three more Dragonfly pilots getting killed as a consequence of a control system failure before we identify the specific issue.
A group of people nearby rushed to the scene when the plane went down and Olson called 911. He said Knight had a weak pulse and CPR was performed; the man died before an ambulance arrived.

Olson said Knight had not been drinking prior to his flight and had always been "very professional about that."
As he was in making sure that his students always had and knew to use...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYe3YmdIQTM


...the safest weak link possible.

Hey Paul, what do you think would've been the greater threat to Mark on this one - a Blood Alcohol Content of 0.15 percent or a Moyes-Bailey Dragonfly? The time machine is running and I'll let Mark get blotto and hop on a trike. Pick one.
Olson listed off the characteristics of the man he knew for three years: "very caring," "very generous," "very helpful" and loved by the hang gliding community.
Most of it...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=30534
Training in Phoenix
Tom Emery - 2013/12/24 15:49:48 UTC
San Diego

Bought a hang glider from Mark at Sonora Wings. He was selling it for someone else. The glider had a frayed wire at the kingpost pulley. Had I not spotted this upon inspection he would have sold me the glider with an obvious problem.

He agreed to order a new wire (at no cost). Six weeks went by. I called him several times. He finally got the wire. Guess what? He ordered the wrong wire.

I'd had enough. I had Rob (High Adventure) order the right wire. It was ordered and installed in under a week. Then I had an issue with reimbursement from Mark. Altogether not a very professional relationship. If he flies with as little attention as he showed me, watch out.
Mark Knight - 2013/12/26 18:06:32 UTC

Tom, I just wrote and deleted my reply to you. I'm not going to comment on someone like you. You are not worth it.
...anyway. And I don't get to vote because the hang gliding community decided I wasn't gonna be part of the hang gliding community.
Andrew Estes, owner of a flight instruction business housed near the airport next to Sonora Wings, said he and Knight used to share ideas and grab lunch and beer every once in a while.
Is that how he came to the conclusion that 1.4 Gs would be a good weak link fit for him and a loop of 130 pound Greenspot would be a good fit for Bryan Bowker? Can you run through the logic for me or did y'all have to much beer for a clear recollection?
Estes also described Knight as a "great guy."
Name me a dead guy who wasn't.
"It always happens to the good guys," he said.
OH MY GOD!!!

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22660
What can be learned from this "scooter" towing accident?
Mitch Shipley - 2011/01/31 15:22:59 UTC

Enjoy your posts, as always, and find your comments solid, based on hundreds of hours / tows of experience and backed up by a keen intellect/knowledge of the issues when it comes to most things in general and hang gliding AT/Towing in particular. Wanted to go on record in case anyone reading wanted to know one persons comments they should give weight to.
Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney's almost certain to be next! We need to make him aware of this situation and warn him immediately! Does anybody have an email address? Does jim@hangcheck.com still work?
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.inmaricopa.com/Article/2014/02/24/sunday-crash-pilot-died-mark-knight-sonora-wings-ak-chin-regional-airport
UPDATE: Pilot who died was 'flying for fun'
Kyle Daly - 2014/02/24 16:47

A group of people nearby rushed to the scene when the plane went down and Olson called 911. He said Knight had a weak pulse and CPR was performed...
Oh. He had a weak pulse and CPR was performed. Yeah, if it ain't broke yet... Fix it.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/skysailingtowing/message/6726
Give 'em the rope? When?
William Olive - 2005/02/11 08:59:57 UTC

I give 'em the rope if they drop a tip (seriously drop a tip), or take off stalled. You will NEVER be thanked for it, for often they will bend some tube.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14221
Tad's release
William Olive - 2008/12/24 23:46:36 UTC

I've seen a few given the rope by alert tug pilots, early on when things were going wrong, but way before it got really ugly. Invariably the HG pilot thinks "What the hell, I would have got that back. Now I've got a bent upright."

The next one to come up to the tuggie and say "Thanks for saving my life." will be the first.
Bill Bryden - 1999/06

During the tug's roll-out for the second launch attempt, the tug pilot observed the glider clear the runway dust and then begin a left bank with no immediate correction. At that point he noticed that the launch cart was hanging below the glider and immediately released his end of the 240 foot towline. The tug never left the ground and tug pilot watched the glider continue a hard bank to the left achieving an altitude of approximately 25 feet.
If the glider doesn't respond to a roll control effort immediately...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
weak links
Jim Rooney - 2007/08/01 13:47:23 UTC

Whatever's going on back there, I can fix it by giving you the rope.
...give it the rope because it MIGHT be locking out and the pilot MIGHT really want to be off tow and he MIGHT not be able to execute that decision himself. Better play it on the safe side.
Impact was on the left wing and then the nose of the glider. Rob was killed immediately from severe neck and head trauma.
...the man died before an ambulance arrived.
No shit. Well, at least we know it wasn't for want of effort to fix whatever was going on in there.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=36446
Mark Knight dies in Dragonfly crash
Davis Straub - 2014/02/27 13:26:11 UTC

I've heard from Jonny Thompson and Jim Rooney and others.
- Why haven't WE heard directly from Jonny Thompson and Jim Rooney and "others". Why haven't they posted anything under their names instead of having it filtered through a lying sociopath with huge conflict of interest issues?

Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney has never been the least bit shy about shooting his mouth off with whatever he's got for a brain totally disengaged. Not a single solitary syllable from him since the crash the better part of five days ago. Last appearance: 2014/02/12 21:23:08 UTC regarding the fallout generated by his fellow tandem hook-in check skipper. Absolutely deafening conspicuous silence. Guess all the players are too busy creating a story that everyone can stick to - having learned a very painful lesson from blurting out too many facts right after Zack Marzec's Rooney Link inconvenienced him last year.

- Did "others" included Bill Moyes who produces and sells the Dragonfly and Bobby Bailey who designed and built the Dragonfly and is a fucking genius when it comes to this shit? Obviously fucking not.

- How 'bout Dr. Trisa Tilletti?

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/skysailingtowing/message/4592
Weaklinks
Tracy Tillman - 2005/02/08 19:16:10 UTC

Unfortunately, many hang glider pilots do not appreciate or understand the significant risks repeatedly taken by tug pilots and aerotow club or flight park operators, on behalf of hang glider pilots so that the hang glider pilots can have safe tows and have fun. Most tow pilots experience many more tows under a much wider variety of conditions, pilots, and equipment, and than even the some of the most experienced and advanced hang glider pilots.

If an advanced pilot wishes to use a stronger weak link, the degree of extra strength must be limited. Primarily, the use of a weak link is to save the tug pilot's behind, by preventing structural and/or control failure--and it should also help to prevent structural and/or control failure of the vehicle being towed.

A tug pilot and/or aerotow operator has every right to inspect the use and quality of the weaklink used by a hang glider pilot, and has a duty to him/her self and the hang glider pilot to make sure that it is not too strong for its primary purpose. Concurrently, the hang glider pilot has a duty to understand and respect the well-founded concerns of the tow pilot and/or aerotow operator.
He's always put Dragonfly pilot safety as the Number One concern in this sport and fuck what happens to the glider. Did Trisa grace you with a privileged conversation?
If the controls on a Dragon fly...
"Dragonfly" is one word, shithead.
...break the nose doesn't pull up.
- Of course not. You've just stated that it doesn't so that must be true. Like we know that Diver Bob Maloney's thin Vectran bridle...

http://ozreport.com/9.098
The thin 1500 pound aerotow bridle
Davis Straub - 2005/05/03

Bob Lane said that Quest Air sold over forty of their bridles (and Bob sold fifteen or twenty) during the Nationals. The Quest Air bridles use thicker Spectra and are designed not to whip around and accidentally tie themselves to the carabineer. Bob says his bridles will not do this either.
...is incapable of wrapping at the carabineer because he's stated so.
It is great to see these safer, simpler, and easy to use aerotow bridles becoming popular.
It's really great to see these safer, simpler, and easy to use aerotow bridles becoming popular.

http://ozreport.com/pub/images/Jrs_2010.jpg
Image
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3725/9665623251_612b921d70_o.png
Image
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Xh_NfnOcUns/UZ4Lm0HvXnI/AAAAAAAAGyk/0PlgrHfc__M/s1024/GOPR5279.JPG

- But just out of curiosity, did Jonny Thompson, Jim Rooney, and others have any comment on the issue? I notice you didn't say that that's what they told you when you heard from them.

- So what exactly is it that Dragonfly happens when the controls on a Dragonfly break?

-- What do Jonny Thompson, Jim Rooney, and others typically experience when the controls on a Dragonfly break?

-- How many Dragonfly control system failures does one of these distinguished tug pilots typically experience before he feels comfortable stating that the plane doesn't pitch up?

-- Is it possible that what the Dragonfly does after its controls break varies according to variables such as engine type, pilot weight, airspeed, pitch attitude, turbulence?

-- Any chance we muppets can have a peek at the database of Dragonfly control system failure incidents? Or is it just too large and open to misinterpretation by nonprofessionals?
Brad Gryder - 2014/02/27 17:09:17 UTC

also he would have pulled the chute if something was broken
Yeah Brad. Absolute proof that nothing was broken. If the silk doesn't come out we can stop looking for a problem with the plane and use a Rookie Mistake or medical emergency angle.

http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief.aspx?ev_id=20110723X95952&key=1
ERA11FA413
National Transportation Safety Board - 2011/08/02

During the tow he observed that the airplane did not lift off until it was near the end of the grass runway. As the airplane reached the end of the runway, he saw the towline "release" from the airplane. He also observed that as the airplane reached an adjacent soybean field, that the airplane was "tickling the beans with its wheels". The flight instructor then continued straight ahead and executed a landing to that same soybean field. Then as he and his student were getting out of their harnesses. He heard the airplane above him. It was "really loud" and he wondered what the pilot was doing. Moments later he heard the airplane impact the ground behind him.

According to a witness, after the release, the airplane began to turn left while climbing until it had completed a 270 degree turn, and reached a peak altitude of approximately 200 feet agl. It then "dropped into a spin" and impacted the ground in an approximately 45 degree nose down attitude.
Keavy Nenninger didn't pull her chute at two hundred feet so we know she didn't have any control issues. She just decided to skim low, dump the tandem, turn and climb to two hundred feet, and make a Rookie Mistake. Then she followed Dragonfly protocol by not pulling her chute because that procedure is reserved for experienced pilots with control system failures.

Obviously no control system failure here:

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27909
Dragonfly Accident at Lookout
Jen Richards - 2012/05/29 21:41:00 UTC

Witnesses watched the plane flying very slowly, parallel to the mountain about fifty feet above the mountain and about three hundred feet out away from mountain, in front of the shop almost over Burkhalter Gap Road. The plane then started a 30 to 45 degree nose-down spiral dive, doing two rotations before disappearing into the trees. Dr. Carmichael was on the scene within ten minutes to render aid but Charles had died.

The BRS rocket parachute system handle was not pulled.
...either. Undoubtedly...
Jim Rooney - 2012/06/18 19:42:15 UTC

Not only is it realistic, it is also correct.
The pilot suffered a heart attack.

Let it go
...a heart attack.
Jim Rooney - 2013/06/06 12:39:18 UTC

Looks like my guy that "talked to the examining doctor" was wrong.
Oh well.
Lotsa fun watching these duplicitous scumbags trying to squirm their way out of this one - a lot like the Zack Marzec situation.

Either the Dragonfly's got some serious issues...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=30828
Sonora wings plane crash
Larry Howe - 2014/02/25 05:32:53 UTC

I could be wrong, but the amount of fatals involving Dragonflies per Dragonfly flying would have grounded any certified aircraft. Maybe we need to spend a little more time analyzing is this just a bad design aircraft. Or will we continue to look the other way because it's one of the few games in town for towing HG. How long do you think they'd put up with Super Cubs and Pawnees crashing and killing sailplane tow pilots if they had this rate of fatals?
...and thus Bobby's not as much of a fucking genius as everybody keeps saying he is and thus the junk that he passes off as glider tow equipment can no longer be regarded as the ultimate pinnacle of human engineering achievement or there's no problem with the Dragonfly and thus there's nothing to fix and they keep on killing Dragonflies and their drivers. Lose/Lose for them, Win/Win for us - for something new and different.

I think they're positioning themselves to wait until they've got Mark safely six feet under then play the heart attack card but...
He said Knight had a weak pulse...
That should be very problematic for them now - especially since nobody's yet moved to tell us all how the reporter got things wrong.

P.S.
Mark Knight - 83965 - H4 - 2010/05/22 - Greg Berger - AT FL LGO ST TAT PA VA 360 FSL RLF TUR XC - BAS INST, OBS, TAND INST
Mark stopped existing anywhere on USHGA's website shortly after augering in. Next time somebody buys it make sure you get what you can before USHGA burns as much of the evidence as possible.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=1516
Loss of a fellow pilot, Mark Knight
Matt Hayes - 2014/02/24 17:50 UTC

Hello all, sorry to be the bearer of this news, Mark Knight of PHX AZ had a fatal crash in his Dragonfly tug yesterday. Possible structural failure, only time will tell.
- How much time? We're moving on to three years since Keavy Nenninger's Dragonfly went down from an obvious control system failure and all we've got is Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney's declaration that it was a Rookie Mistake and online communities of useless shits who let him get away with that crap.

- Has time told what went wrong with Zack Marzec's flight as far as Industry players are concerned?

- What do you think the ratio of towed gliders to tugs is and what our priorities should be?
Eyewitness report from the tandem glider says he released the tandem, descended down to drop the tow rope (as it was the last tow of the day), after releasing the rope the nose pitched up violently and then went into a spin. Plane spun three times before impacting the ground. Mark felt no pain.

Any that knew him knew he was a very selfless and caring person...
I knew him. You need to modify that statement.

Tom Emery, Larry West, and Bryan Bowker also knew him. Probably a safe bet to take them off your list as well.
...a very large player in the promotion of hang gliding in AZ.
We got plenty enough assholes promoting hang gliding. What we need is people getting it fixed. Promoting a broken aviation sport is akin to murder.
He was the main tug pilot at the Santa Cruz Flats Race in September and now it won't be the same.
Fuck the Santa Cruz Flats Race and everyone who participates in it. THIS:

14-03123
http://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5154/14422541620_a48c55b758_o.png
Image
Image
http://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5529/14422573378_5385a9a99a_o.png
19-03703

is ONE HUNDRED PERCENT UNACCEPTABLE.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec
NMERider - 2013/02/19 22:56:19 UTC

I will appreciate that it is the tug pilot's call as to the maximum breaking strength of any so-called weak link system and not mine.
The tug jockeys who are making these bullshit calls need to have their tickets revoked and the glider jockeys tolerating them need to have their tickets suspended.
This is number three for me in the last few years.
Was Kunio number one? Have any of you motherfuckers done a goddam thing to increase the rate of compliance with the hook-in check regulation in that neck of the woods - or anywhere else?
We must always remember we are not made to be in the air and it doesn't take much for it to go wrong to the point we can't fix it.
A LOT has been going wrong to make this one possible. And it damn near always does.
R.I.P. Mark Knight, you will be missed by many. Fly high and free sky brother!
Sorry. His opportunities for flying ended Sunday evening.
Bob Kuczewski - 2014/02/24 20:56 UTC

I didn't know Mark, but he appears to be well-known (and well-liked) by pilots everywhere.
Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney amongst them. Still too grief stricken to take to keyboard. Friend to every pilot he ever met. Definite Bob Show material. Nothing like the unpopular and despised individuals over at Tad's Hole In The Ground.
For example, there's a topic on the Crestline forum:

http://www.crestlinesoaring.org/node/629
Mark Knight R.I.P.

which includes this photo:

Image
- There's a topic on the Kite Strings forum:

http://www.kitestrings.org/topic42.html
Broken arm Saturday for discussion

which includes this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYe3YmdIQTM


of yet another victim of the Magic Fishing Line having his hang gliding career ended as the consequence of having a total douchebag as an instructor.

- There's a topic on the Davis Show forum:

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30912
Death at Quest Air

which includes this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-i4owd0akd0


posted by a total douchebag of an instructor the evening before he's gonna have his life ended by his loop of Magic Fishing Line. It also features a cute little Golden Retriever puppy. I think we need to be very careful about posting media featuring images of cute little Golden Retriever puppies.
They're taking up a collection to send something to Mark's widow, Maria. With Matt's permission, I've linked this topic to the national forum to give it more exposure.
I've linked it to this international forum without Matt's permission 'cause it needs as much exposure as possible and I don't really give a flying fuck about the citizenship of somebody who buys it in this sport.
Please feel free to post your stories and remembrances of Mark.
But be very careful not to post anything critical of Mark, Bobby, the aerotowing industry, hang gliding culture or Bob will start concocting justifications for restricting what you can say and where you can say it.

Have you run this one through your Navier-Stokes Equations and come up with anything of actual substance to say, Mr. Aeronautical Engineer?

Fuckin' asshole.
Sam Kellner - 2014/02/26 03:07 UTC

What a bummer Image Matt, I first learned of the tragedy from your post on this forum. Thanks.
This:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8143/7462005802_bbc0ac66ac_o.jpg
Image

was a bummer too, Sam. I first learned of the tragedy from this topic on the Davis Show forum:

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28211
Platform towing fatality in Leakey, Texas

Any thoughts on what went wrong?

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1081
Platform towing /risk mitigation / accident
Sam Kellner - 2012/07/03 02:25:58 UTC

No, you don't get an accident report.
All the dragonfly towing I've seen, they landed without dropping the rope. Image
OK all you Dragonfly jockeys out there, better think long and hard before dropping the rope. Maybe even more so...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
weak links
Jim Rooney - 2007/08/01 13:47:23 UTC

Whatever's going on back there, I can fix it by giving you the rope.
...when there's a glider on its other end.

Otherwise... You should be fine.

Hey Sam... I heard that somebody dropped the rope a couple seconds prior to Terry slamming in. Did you hear anything on that?
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=36446
Mark Knight dies in Dragonfly crash
NMERider - 2014/03/01 21:17:11 UTC
Merle - 2014/03/01 11:08

Thank you Chris, and everyone else.
You guys are incredible. I have received donations from all over the country. Just an amazing show of support.
If you haven't donated yet, now is the time.

As of Saturday morning we are over $5300.

Thank You
Thanks Davis for posting about the donations and for every one here and everywhere else who responded so generously!
Davis Straub - 2014/03/02 00:36:08 UTC

That was a lot of money very quickly.
Not a very small fraction as much or as fast as:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYe3YmdIQTM
Thanks to all who responded.
I've responded. Are you extending your thanks to me?
Mark was obviously well liked...
Obviously. A friend to every pilot he met and very well received by every forum he joined. Compare/Contrast with...
and very important to the hang gliding community in Arizona and beyond.
Tireless worker...

http://ahga.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2860
Mingus Accident Report
Mark Knight - 2008/09/02 10:39
AHGA Member

My thoughts are all over the place with constant rewinds and what if, why didn't Kunio and why didn't I? Dammit! I go back and forth between being pissed off and extremely sad by a stupid turn of events.

I just want to thank all who helped with a terrible situation. To all who pushed their way down the rocks and through the brush, Randy, Julian, Merle, Mark J, Gavin, and Jorge, those that hiked up to us. Bruce, Bill, Tim and the Guy with the Camera who I am forgetting your name, my apologies. Thanks to those on top and in the LZ who guided me to Kunio over the phone and comforted Karina as much as possible.

In the last two years Kunio became one of my best friends. I have a group of friends that my wife refers to as the "GIRLS" because we talk on the phone like a bunch of teenage girls. About a year ago my wife started referring to Kunio as one of the "GIRLS." Mark Johnson is also one of the Girls. His wife laughs at us also. I hope you all have friends like these. They are always there and I can depend on them for anything.

There's that movie in my head again. Why, Why, Why!

I feel we all as a group need to figure out what happened and what we are going to do to prevent it from ever happening again. I know I'm going to get two or three opinions and cause some arguments in the process. I don't care at this point. Old school, New school we are all in this. We do not need to discuss this now but get your thoughts together and write them down. In the near future we need to figure this out. Kunio was very close to my heart and I will get through this but I do not want to go through it again.
...on the unhooked launch issue.

Worked hard with Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney on the ever inflammatory weak link issue to calculate that...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=32824
Weaklink testing
Mark Knight - 2013/07/04 13:47:57 UTC

My calculations and test suggest the 200 lb. is right for me. I weigh 185 pounds, fly a T2 154 (75 lbs), and my harness fully loaded is 35 pounds. Total all up flying weight is 185 + 75+ 35 = 295 lbs. Times 1.4 = 413. I use Pro tow barrel release so divide by 2 = 206.5. I feel the White and purple is a good fit for me.
...200 pounds / 1.4 G was right for him. Puts him right up in the league of hang gliding movers and shakers like Bill Moyes, Bobby Bailey, Davis Straub, Dr. Trisa Tilletti who've calculated that...

http://ozreport.com/rules.php
2014 Big Spring Nationals Rules
2014 Big Spring Nationals at Big Spring, Texas

2.0 EQUIPMENT

Weaklinks

Pilots must use weaklinks provided by the meet organizers and in a manner approved by the meet organizers. All weaklinks will be checked and use of inappropriate weaklinks will require the pilot to go to the end of the launch line to change the weaklink.

Weaklinks should be placed at one end of a shoulder bridle. The tow forces on the weaklink will be roughly divided in half by this placement. Pilots will be shown how to tie the weaklink so that it more likely breaks at its rating breaking strength.
...130 pounds / What-the-fuck-are-Gs? is right for everybody.

If only he'd lived long enough to help settle the...
Appropriate aerotow bridles

Competitors must use appropriate aerotow bridles as determined by the Meet Director and Safety Director and their designated officials. Bridles must include secondary releases (as determined by the Safety Director). Bridles must be able to be connected to the tow line within two seconds. The only appropriate bridles can be found here:
http://OzReport.com/9.039#0
Image
and:
http://ozreport.com/9.041#2
Image
Image

Pilots who have not already had their bridles inspected during the practice days must bring their bridles to the mandatory pilot safety briefing and have them reviewed. Pilots with inappropriate bridles may purchase appropriate bridles from the meet organizer.
...bent/straight pin controversies.

And a real driving force...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=30828
Sonora wings plane crash
Larry Howe - 2014/02/25 05:32:53 UTC

I could be wrong, but the amount of fatals involving Dragonflies per Dragonfly flying would have grounded any certified aircraft. Maybe we need to spend a little more time analyzing is this just a bad design aircraft. Or will we continue to look the other way because it's one of the few games in town for towing HG. How long do you think they'd put up with Super Cubs and Pawnees crashing and killing sailplane tow pilots if they had this rate of fatals?
...on the issue of Dragonfly safety as well.

It's pretty easy to be very well liked when you're one of the few games in town for getting gliders off the ground. And it's one hundred percent impossible to be well liked when you're trying to fix problems and get gliders off the ground safely.
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Tad Eareckson
Posts: 9161
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Re: instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=30868
Arizona DragonFly pilot needed
Paul Olson - 2014/03/03 16:53:46 UTC
Racine

Sonora Wings is looking for a qualified tug pilot to finish out the remaining season which usually ends around May 1st. Simple accommodations are available. Please contact Marla at:

480-580-0098

Google Sonora Wings for more details regarding the facility.
And no need to worry about...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=30828
Sonora wings plane crash
Larry Howe - 2014/02/25 05:32:53 UTC

I could be wrong, but the amount of fatals involving Dragonflies per Dragonfly flying would have grounded any certified aircraft. Maybe we need to spend a little more time analyzing is this just a bad design aircraft. Or will we continue to look the other way because it's one of the few games in town for towing HG. How long do you think they'd put up with Super Cubs and Pawnees crashing and killing sailplane tow pilots if they had this rate of fatals?
...the safety of the tug. Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney has declared that Keavy Nenninger went down as a consequence of...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27909
Dragonfly Accident at Lookout
Jim Rooney - 2012/06/09 03:05:22 UTC

BTW, you have no need or use of reminding me of the other tug pilot that we lost.
She was a friend of mine and an exceptionally close friend of my mates.
You will likewise not be able to inform me of anything regarding her accident.
Allow me to inform you.
She was a rookie and it was a rookie mistake made under duress and extremely low.
And your little string thing wouldn't have done jack shit in her case either.
...a Rookie Mistake and Davis Straub...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=36446
Mark Knight dies in Dragonfly crash
Davis Straub - 2014/02/27 13:26:11 UTC

I've heard from Jonny Thompson and Jim Rooney and others. If the controls on a Dragon fly break the nose doesn't pull up.
...and Brad Gryder...
Brad Gryder - 2014/02/27 17:09:17 UTC

also he would have pulled the chute if something was broken
...have ruled out control system failure. So we're totally good to go.

And even if something WERE to go wrong - again... Hell, plenty more Dragonflies where that one came from.
User avatar
Tad Eareckson
Posts: 9161
Joined: 2010/11/25 03:48:55 UTC

Re: instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=30868
Arizona DragonFly pilot needed
Paul Olson - 2014/03/03 18:29:44 UTC

We need someone to live here seven days a week.
You need someone to live - PERIOD.

And the reason you do is because Mark wasn't up to the task. And I'm wondering what you're thinking his replacement is gonna be able to do better than he was.

Gotten any guidance from any...

http://ozreport.com/9.008
Death in the paddock.
Davis Straub - 2005/01/10

As he took off his left wing was dragging. Bobby Bailey, the best tow pilot in the business, moved to the right into get further into the wind, and Robin got his left wing up and flying as he lined up behind Bobby.
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=16265
weaklinks
Kinsley Sykes - 2010/03/18 19:42:19 UTC

In the old threads there was a lot of info from a guy named Tad. Tad had a very strong opinion on weak link strength and it was a lot higher than most folks care for. I'd focus carefully on what folks who tow a lot have to say. Or Jim Rooney who is an excellent tug pilot. I tow with the "park provided" weak links. I think they are 130 pound Greenspot.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
Jim Rooney - 2011/08/25 04:55:25 UTC

It always amazes to hear know it all pilots arguing with the professional pilots.
I mean seriously, this is our job.
We do more tows in a day than they do in a month (year for most).

We *might* have an idea of how this stuff works.
They *might* do well to listen.
Not that they will, mind you... cuz they *know*.
...of the best and the brightest yet?
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