instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

Tad Eareckson · Post by **Tad Eareckson** » 2014/04/05 13:39:00 UTC

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31034
Any opinions on the USHPA cover of the April issue?

David Brose - 2014/04/04 16:02:24 UTC
Humboldt

My opinion is that it is a great choice for a cover photo.

With you so far.

Dynamic, thrilling ,

Yeah...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=32318
Lock Out

Alan Deikman - 2013/06/03 20:56:58 UTC

That picture will give me nightmares.

Totally.

...has a good story to learn from...

So this is totally new phenomenon that nobody's ever seen before. Otherwise emergency scenarios like this would be covered in the excellent training programs at Wallaby, Quest, Florida Ridge, Lockout, Foothills, Currituck, Manquin, Campbell Field, Ridgely, Morningside, Cloud 9, Hang Glide Chicago, Whitewater, Cowboy UP...

OK... So tell me what it is somebody's learned from this one? One thing? 34 posts so far in this idiot topic on this idiot incident and what's someone supposed to emulate or do differently? Did I miss something?

...skilled pilot...

Oh.

- So what special skills do you think we should be working on? This one?:

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks

Brad Gryder - 2013/02/21 23:25:31 UTC

There's also a way to swing your body way outside the control frame so it stays up there while you reach out with one hand and release. Come on - do some pushups this winter. See if you can advance up to some one-arm pushups.

Probably not. I don't recall him mentioning it. Too bad - if ever there were a good time...

- So can you list some pilots with the requisite skills to handle a situation like that?

- What do you think wankers like Eric Aasletten, Mike Haas, Zack Marzec should've been working on for better outcomes?

- Lemme tell ya sumpin', douchebag...

There are very few fifteen year old kids I can't take off the street and have flying down the dune using two hands on the basetube better than Steve Pearson, Mike Barber, John Heiney will ever be able to do with one hand on the basetube.

Here's what Steve Pearson has to say with respect to glider control and landings:

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27086
Steve Pearson on landings

Steve Pearson - 2012/03/28 23:26:05 UTC

I can't control the glider in strong air with my hands at shoulder or ear height and I'd rather land on my belly with my hands on the basetube than get turned downwind.

So what do you think his take would be for one hand on the basetube and the other making the easy reach for the "release" with a locking out glider?

Note that even Ryan Instant-Hands-Free-Release Voight:

http://vimeo.com/26210217

28-04208
http://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1551/25962165725_29efd47b80_o.png

tends to keep both hands on the basetube during critical phases of flight.

- I was under the impression that...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks

Jim Rooney - 2013/03/05 01:32:20 UTC

Btw, it's nothing to do with you "counting" on the weaklink breaking... Its about me not trusting you to hit the release.
If it were only about what you want, then you could use what you like.
You want the strongest weaklink you can have.
I want you to have the weakest one practical.. I don't care how much it inconveniences you.
I don't trust you as a rule. You Trust you , but I don't and shouldn't.

...a Rooney Link eliminates the requirement for skill in a towed pilot. He was using a Rooney Link so why should skill have been an issue?

...scary...

What? Did a routine aerotow using Industry Standard equipment SCARE you?

http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=3840
[TIL] About Tad Eareckson

Orion Price - 2013/03/13 05:52:48 UTC

Tad really has no testicles. He says he had one surgically removed. However we all know they took both out.
Imagine living most of your life with no testicles.

Grow a pair, dude.

...controversial...

To expose to or hide from the public. That is the question.

...a real situation that happens...

Oh. A REAL situation that happenS. So this wasn't just some freak, one-off, Zack Marzec thing. So why is there anything to learn from it?

...and good to learn from .

- Wouldn't it have been better to learn from the previous times it's happened?

- Do you think the aerotowing industry is totally unaware of the previous times it's happened? Why do you think we didn't learn everything we'd have needed to before we got our AT ratings signed off?

The PG vs. HG squabble is dumb.

Dumber than any other aspect of this thread? How?

That needs it's own forum/website. Like something http://www.pgvshg.org/forum

What's it matter?

This thread has probably by now just about outlived the attention spans of the Jack Show crowd. The issues should've been:

- "Pro towing" is total bullshit. A glider cannot be safely towed one point by any one of any skill level. And you're attributing a high skill level to this motherfucker.

- This "easy reach" rot:

Towing Aloft - 1998/01

Lockouts do not just magically happen to snatch a glider from the sky. They are generally progressive events originating from situations that can usually be terminated.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1143
Death at Tocumwal

Davis Straub - 2006/01/24 12:27:32 UTC

Bill Moyes argues that you should not have to move your hand from the base bar to release. That is because your natural inclination is to continue to hold onto the base bar in tough conditions and to try to fly the glider when you should be releasing.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=14230
pro tow set-up

Ryan Voight - 2009/11/03 20:51:52 UTC

My whole point is that people tend to "hang on" too long trying to save things, rather than recognize a bad situation and release (one way or another), go back, and reset.

I'm not saying wait until you're so locked out you're passed 90 degrees bank and then pitch up to break the weaklink and do half a loop into the ground. I'm saying get the hell off way before that, and if you can't let go you CAN pop the weaklink pretty easy... they're weak after all

I'm done with this thread. Went from a good discussion RE: one barrel or two, and became a "the sky is falling and towing is death" tyrade. If you don't want to tow, don't... let other's do what they want. Live and let live my friend.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=25435
Raunchy Day At The Ridge + Release Failure

Diev Hart - 2012/03/06 01:06:39 UTC

Right there (I think) is the main issue...some pilots think they can fix a bad thing and don't want to start over.

from these dickheads needs to go back down into the toilet and stay there.

- This rot:

Towing Aloft - 1998/01

Weak links very clearly will provide protection from excessive angles of attack, high bank turns and the like for this form of towing.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/26 02:44:10 UTC

The "purpose" of a weaklink is to increase the safety of the towing operation. PERIOD.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jn4cTQH743E

42-05328
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7309/11414153476_3ca8cc4036_o.png

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=35257
The student on tow

Jim Rooney - 2013/12/21 21:51:46 UTC

Thank you for seeing the wisdom in an actual "weak" link.
I'm sorry you had to learn it the hard way.
Thank you again for posting this so that people can understand the severity of the decision to fly with stronger "weaklinks".

http://www.wallaby.com/aerotow_primer.php
Aerotow Primer for Experienced Pilots

The Wallaby Ranch Aerotowing Primer for Experienced Pilots - 2014/04/05

If you fail to maintain the correct tow position (centered, with the wheels of the tug on the horizon), the weak link will break before you can get into too much trouble.

...from just about any motherfucker in the upper ranks you wanna name needs a stake driven through its heart. Using 130 pound test fishing line to increase the safety of the towing operation because it MIGHT help in a lockout situation makes as much sense as having lotsa trees in the LZ 'cause one of them MIGHT snag somebody having a control problem and prevent him from slamming in.

Tad Eareckson · Post by **Tad Eareckson** » 2014/04/05 13:59:22 UTC

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31034
Any opinions on the USHPA cover of the April issue?

Rick Cavallaro - 2014/04/05 07:22:40 UTC
JJ Coté - 2014/04/04 03:03:38 UTC

Interesting how sensitive and touchy a lot of people here seem to be when it comes to something that they feel portrays hang gliding in a bad light, while at the same time happy to dish out abuse to paragliding.
It's fun to take an issue that hasn't got the first thing to do with paragliding and use it as an excuse for a good old fashioned PG bash.

Well yeah, otherwise everybody would hafta admit that everyone who aerotows using Industry Standard equipment and protocols is rolling dice every time he hops on a cart.

Scott MacLeod - 2014/04/04 04:50:29 UTC

Here's a website for those psychotic bag flyers:
http://www.paraglidingforum.com/

What you'll notice is a very engaged and upbeat sharing of ideas.
Another thing you might notice is the distinct lack of talk about hang gliding. The HG vs. PG thing only exists at HG sites.

And that's 'cause you've got a better crowd of people flying paragliders? I got news for ya, Rick. It's 'cause the ONLY thing paragliders have over hang gliders in the safety department...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=28835
Why I don't paraglide

Tom Emery - 2013/04/17 14:29:12 UTC
San Diego

Been flying Crestline about a year now. I've seen more bent aluminum than twisted risers. Every time another hang pounds in, Steven, the resident PG master, just rolls his eyes and says something like, "And you guys think hang gliding is safer."

...is our stunt landings. And those are entirely self inflicted - not an inherent deficiency.

David Brose - 2014/04/04 16:02:24 UTC

The PG vs. HG squabble is dumb. That needs it's own forum/website. Like something http://www.pgvshg.org/forum/
The PG vs. HG squabble already has its own website. It's http://www.hanggliding.org/

Works real well as:
http://www.hgvstad.org/
as well. But then... what doesn't?

Tad Eareckson · Post by **Tad Eareckson** » 2014/04/05 15:30:49 UTC

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31041
Genuinely advanced pilot

DrBill - 2014/04/05 13:29:42 UTC

Hey all,
new to this place. Having read some, I know there are a lot of very sour armchair dudes out there.
No worries, i can sort the wheat from the chaff.
Was thinking this may be a good way to introduce myself.
What are the attributes and character traits attributable to a real GENUINE advanced pilot.
I am personally an advanced intermediate, lots of sites and conditions etc, different wings etc. Have 154 Hrs Airtime.
I am looking to go to a Litespeed S within the next season. I am very interested in the people who actually know some shit from their own personal experience, I am not interested in the I think I knowshit nobs of which there are plenty.
As stated I WILL be able to sort them, so seriously DO NOT post if you are a negative asshole.
I welcome with open arms the genuine well meaning pilots who dont generally get involved in the flame wars here.
Please feel free to personally e mail etc.
I am genuinely wanting to know what makes the difference between an average pilot and the very best.
Here goes.

Hey all

Define "all". Everybody who can read this crap or everybody who's permitted to respond to this crap?

new to this place. Having read some, I know there are a lot of very sour armchair dudes out there.

Stay away from them. They have NOTHING to offer. Only listen to the people who are on Brian Horgan's approved list.

No worries, i can sort the wheat from the chaff.

Great! So then what's the point of this idiot post?

Was thinking this may be a good way to introduce myself.

It's a GREAT way. I certainly have your number - asshole.

What are the attributes and character traits attributable to a real GENUINE advanced pilot.

Why worry about it? You'll never have a snowball's chance in hell of becoming one.

I am personally an advanced intermediate, lots of sites and conditions etc, different wings etc. Have 154 Hrs Airtime.

Sounds like you're all set then. No fuckin' way you'll ever:
- botch an approach
- break an arm because your flare timing is a bit off
- launch unhooked
- fail to properly respond to a Rooney Link pop
- delay making the easy reach to your release because you think you can fix a bad thing and don't want to start over

I am looking to go to a Litespeed S within the next season. I am very interested in the people who actually know some shit from their own personal experience, I am not interested in the I think I knowshit nobs of which there are plenty.

Yeah, make sure you only listen to people who've learned some shit from their own personal experience. Screen out everyone who's AVOIDED shit by understanding theory, using good equipment, exercising good judgment, looking at the reasons douchebags who just learn some shit from their own personal experience are totaling themselves.

As stated I WILL be able to sort them, so seriously DO NOT post if you are a negative asshole.

That's one helluva keen intellect you've got there buddy. Good thing too because Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney has painted himself into so many corners with his keen intellect that he can't afford to post about anything any more. And here you are - all ready to go. Can't really imagine why you're looking for anybody beyond your level. Sounds like a totally hopeless task to me.

I welcome with open arms the genuine well meaning pilots who dont generally get involved in the flame wars here.

Please feel free to personally e mail etc.

I have ZERO desire to waste my breath talking to you directly - and really hope I get to use you as a data point sometime in the not too distant future.

I am genuinely wanting to know what makes the difference between an average pilot and the very best.

Huge testicles. But not so big they make it difficult to insert one's head up one's ass.

Here goes.

Fuck you.

P.S. Mind giving a real name so's I can check to see what asshole(s) signed you off on the ratings you have to date?
---
2017/06/03 09:15:00 UTC

Post deleted, author extinct without a trace.

Tad Eareckson · Post by **Tad Eareckson** » 2014/04/05 16:14:34 UTC

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31041
Genuinely advanced pilot

Felix Cantesanu - 2014/04/05 14:21:14 UTC
Baltimore

Hello DrBill - heluva way to introduce yourself

No shit. Certainly told me everything I need to know about this asshole. And, given the fact that he's totally getting away with it, everything I need to know about The Jack Show - not that I didn't have that down pat years ago.

I'm pretty much at the same general stage in my flying as you are, if a little behind in airtime, but looking ahead for what's next.
My take on a REAL (advanced) pilot is a stage where a pilot makes generally correct calls about flying in general, this including conditions, terrain, gear, etc...someone confident and safe - by safe I'm thinking of generally flawless take-off and landings in all conditions and sites, comfortable in the air in all conditions, able to plan out during a flight and see what's next before it happens, react positively and immediately to any "surprise" the skies might offer.
While I'm not personally there yet, that's what I strive for and I hope to be one day; only dedication and commitment will get us there, like in everything else in life.

How 'bout THIS:

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31034
Any opinions on the USHPA cover of the April issue?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-9Ek9_lFeSII/UZ4KuB0MUSI/AAAAAAAAGyU/eWfhGo4QeqY/s1024/GOPR5278.JPG
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3725/9665623251_612b921d70_o.png

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Xh_NfnOcUns/UZ4Lm0HvXnI/AAAAAAAAGyk/0PlgrHfc__M/s1024/GOPR5279.JPG

Felix?

- He goes up in thermal CONDITIONS with the shit GEAR your buddies at Ridgely sell and send people up with and comes within a dozen or two lucky feet of smearing himself all over the TERRAIN and killing himself just as dead as Zack Marzec did about three months prior.

- Did he PLAN for the flight to SEE what could happen BEFORE IT HAPPENED and REACT POSITIVELY AND IMMEDIATELY TO THE "SURPRISE" THE SKY OFFERED? Or was he just another fuckin' idiot dope on rope - totally at the mercy of the whims of Mother Nature and Sir Isaac and the response of his Pilot In Command at the other end of the rope?

And he's getting praised by the dickheads over there for his Righteous Stuff.

And you're flying the same crap that he is in the same conditions that he is. So maybe you can tell us what you'd have done different/better in that situation to lessen your chances of winding up as a greasy spot. Or maybe you can at least tell us the take your dickhead buddies at Ridgely offered.

And any comment on this guy's total shit attitude? Just kidding.

2014/04/06 01:40:50 UTC - 3 thumbs up - Jim Gaar

Tad Eareckson · Post by **Tad Eareckson** » 2014/04/05 17:27:33 UTC

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31041
Genuinely advanced pilot

Dave Pendzick - 2014/04/05 15:49:19 UTC
Oregon

Hello, welcome!

WAY too enthusiastic.

I am a relatively new pilot, but I come from a fairly diverse air sport background. I am a skydiver with over 1000 jumps, I have my tandem instructor rating. I have also dabbled in BASE a little bit with around a 100 or so BASE jumps. I fly airplanes when I can afford it & I have been flying hang gliders for about 2years.

Throughout my experiences in these sports, which share MANY similarities, I have noticed several character traits which the very advanced pilots tend to have.

Bullshit. NOTHING's like hang gliding. We:
- use
-- towlines which transmit pressure
-- bent pin crap for releases
- pro tow with the thrust line going to the bottom of the system after we learn to do it safely
- need weak links which blow every other tow to keep us from pitching up and locking out
- can take our hands off the controls in emergency high control pressure situations without suffering any adverse response
- won't stall when a couple hundred pounds of thrust is instantly cut
- don't bench test our gear because lab conditions cannot completely include all the factors and variability that exists in the big real world
- whipstall all of our landings to dead stops
- will likely undershoot the field if we try to utilize any part of the first half of the runway

Advanced pilots are dedicated. Typically I have noticed these individuals are usually highly intelligent & usually have occupations which allow them to fly as much as possible, or they attain a level of excellence high enough to allow them to devote their entire lives to their passion.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22660
What can be learned from this "scooter" towing accident?

Mitch Shipley - 2011/01/31 15:22:59 UTC

Enjoy your posts, as always, and find your comments solid, based on hundreds of hours / tows of experience and backed up by a keen intellect/knowledge of the issues when it comes to most things in general and hang gliding AT/Towing in particular. Wanted to go on record in case anyone reading wanted to know one persons comments they should give weight to.

Take your competition pilots as an example.

Davis?

I have also noticed very little egotistical behaviors.

Davis?

These individuals tend to excel because they are driven to learn as much as possible.

Davis?

They tend not to be influenced to excel because they want to keep up with everybody else.

Davis?

These individuals tend to excel quickly because they FLY A LOT!

Davis?

I think this is the single most important factor that separates them from the rest.

I can think of all kinds of important factors that separate most of these assholes from some of the rest of us.

It totally makes sense that Dustin Martin is from Arizona. Anyway, thats my 2 cents.

My two cents...

- This is a terminally fucked up sport and competition pilots - AT BEST - haven't done SHIT to help fix it.

- People who fly all the time...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=30824
Article "Pushing Out" Feb 2014 HG mag

NMERider - 2014/02/25 06:05:06 UTC

What part of:
...his rather nonsensical and too-often phantasmagorical version of physics and aerodynamics.
wasn't clear?

Ryan is a classic example of a superbly talented athlete who is ill-equipped to write a comprehensive training manual or academically meaningful text.

...tend not to be all that bright.

- A Hang Two who's always done hook-in checks on his previous 99 foot launches taking a sled run off the ramp at McConnellsburg can have a much better day - and longer flying career - than a Hang Five who's never launched without doing a hang check and/or gotten in his harness unless it was connected to his glider his previous 5999 foot launches.

- What percentage of competition pilots tow up as Pilots In Command of their gliders rather than having:
-- Davis
-- Rooney
-- the Dragonfly
--- driver
--- tow mast breakaway
--- tow mast protectors
-- standard aerotow weak links
as Pilots In Command of their gliders?

W9GFO - 2014/04/05 16:25:56 UTC

The best pilots are going to have a great deal of experience AND have a deep understanding of the mechanics of flight and atmosphere.
Without all those you will be "good" at best.

Name some who don't fly with backup loops and bent pin barrel releases and understand what a weak link is.

Tad Eareckson · Post by **Tad Eareckson** » 2014/04/05 22:27:59 UTC

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31041
Genuinely advanced pilot

Comet - 2014/04/05 19:01:07 UTC

Seriously: two posts under your belt and you're already making rules and labeling people "negative a-holes"? Talk about crappy attitude.

Well, there's definitely no shortage of assholes over there - but... Yep.

Watch and learn: it's possible to be one of the best pilots anywhere with tons of experience, AND be a troll.

It's also possible to be one of the most skillful flyers anywhere with tons of experience and have no fuckin' chance of ever becoming a PILOT.

Remember Mr. Miyagi from "Karate Kid"? The guy was a martial arts master and still an old grump.

2014/04/05 20:03:24 UTC - 3 thumbs up - NMERider
2014/04/05 20:10:21 UTC - 3 thumbs up - Sam Kellner
2014/04/05 20:16:56 UTC - 3 thumbs up - Brian Scharp
2014/04/05 21:12:44 UTC - 3 thumbs up - Allen Sparks
2014/04/06 00:23:26 UTC - 3 thumbs up - Paul Hurless
2014/04/06 15:44:51 UTC - 3 thumbs up - Rick Cavallaro
2014/04/06 23:28:06 UTC - 3 thumbs up - Christopher Albers
2014/04/06 04:09:07 UTC - Sink This! -- Steve Forslund

Brian Scharp - 2014/04/05 21:27:18 UTC

Skill level.

2-112
http://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7600/28811055456_925c8abb66_o.png

37-23223
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3713/9655904048_89cce6423a_o.png

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-bRrpHNa68iY/UQ6Pv9gRZyI/AAAAAAAAjTg/Hc22bx5122Q/s2048/20943781_BG1.jpg

Fuck skill level. Solid Hang 2.0 skills are about all you'll ever need. Try theory, judgment, threat prioritization, equipment.

2014/04/06 15:45:23 UTC - 3 thumbs up - Rick Cavallaro

Steve Davy · Post by **Steve Davy** » 2014/04/05 22:42:17 UTC

http://www.willswing.com/learn/safety.asp
Learn To Fly - Safety

As a pilot, your safety is determined by the quality of the decisions you make. It is not determined by your skill, or your experience, or your knowledge, but by how well you understand the limitations those three things place on you, and by how well, and how consistently you conduct your flying so as to stay comfortably within those limitations.

Can you find any holes in that one, Tad?

Tad Eareckson · Post by **Tad Eareckson** » 2014/04/06 13:28:35 UTC

Yeah.

Safety IS, on many occasions, determined by skill, experience, knowledge. Granted, you don't wanna be in a lot of situations which push the issues, but people are human and shit happens.

Furthermore, a Hang 1.5 to 2.0 who stays COMFORTABLY within his limitations is gonna progress at a glacial pace and that ain't a great recipe for a long safe career neither.

THIS:

05-2704c
http://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1525/26167489042_9f5e5af537_o.png

is THE way to come into a tight field and you don't learn to do that by...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=30722
What happened to JD?

Tom Lyon - 2014/02/04 07:55:19 UTC

In learning to fly the sailplanes, I had it drilled into me that below two hundred feet, my options did not include anything more than maybe a very slight turn to avoid hitting an obstacle. Like thirty degrees from my heading maybe. A slight bank.

...staying COMFORTABLY within your limitations - at least not very efficiently.

At Jockey's Ridge where I learned to fly if you weren't constantly pushing your comfort level you were gonna be spending a lot of time carrying your glider back up the dune, very little time flying, and virtually no time developing anything resembling skills.

And damn near every altitude flight I ever made I was pushing my comfort level on the turn onto final. Just about always resulted in a long walk to the breakdown area but a lot of confidence that I'd be able to stop it in any field in which stopping was doable.

Tad Eareckson · Post by **Tad Eareckson** » 2014/04/06 16:39:23 UTC

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31034
Any opinions on the USHPA cover of the April issue?

Alan Deikman - 2014/04/05 23:42:35 UTC

As a pilot...

So...

Alan Deikman - Fremont, California - 81665 - H3 - Patrick Denevan - 2007/06/01 - FL ST FSL

...you're a PILOT?

...my first thought when seeing that is for all that is holy get rid of that rope now.

- Yeah, that would be ANOTHER excellent time to take a hand off the basetube.
- As a PILOT, what's your opinion on why:
-- he wasn't able to get rid of the fucking rope at the onset of the lockout?
-- his Pilot In Command on the Dragonfly WAS able to quickly, easily, safely get rid of the rope while Ben totally wasn't.

I don't think he even had enough altitude for a chute deployment.

I dunno. Maybe this would be a good time to have a discussion on parachutes. Maybe we should all be getting ballistic jobs.

The only hope would be to get that wing flying again somehow.

No shit. Hey! You really ARE a Pilot! So wouldn't...
- you need the enormous skill Ben employed to stuff the bar and wait until that that wing got flying again somehow?
- your first thought when seeing that about getting rid of that rope be a bit counterproductive?

I don't know Ben that well but I see him at the flying club meetings. I would be really bummed if something happened to him.

Me too! What a tragedy that would be. So what's he said about the incident at your goddam useless flying club meetings?

2014/04/06 00:20:41 UTC - 3 thumbs up - Sam Kellner

Figures.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8143/7462005802_bbc0ac66ac_o.jpg

Davis Straub - 2014/04/06 01:04:12 UTC

I like this one also:

Me too. I like it 'cause it shows what the cheap shoddy crap you sell and force people to fly with can do to them. So for the exact same reason you do. Who'da thunk.

michael170 - 2014/04/06 05:37:23 UTC

I like this one also:

I'da liked it so much more if his head hadn't just missed the keel.

Davis Straub - 2014/04/06 12:18:41 UTC

Notice how he nicely misses the donkey punch.

Keep trying, Davis. We're all pulling for you.

Ya know... As of this post it's been precisely eleven hours and two mintutes since michael170 posted that. And nobody's posted a negative response or given him any thumbs down. Glimmer of hope.

Tad Eareckson · Post by **Tad Eareckson** » 2014/04/06 18:59:24 UTC

http://www.willswing.com/learn/safety.asp
Learn To Fly - Safety

The modern sport of hang gliding was born more than thirty years ago...

The modern sport of hang gliding was born well over forty years ago. When was the last time you guys took a look around at the hang gliding universe and made any necessary adjustments to this page?

...of a generation of young men and women whose passion for flight often overwhelmed any reasonable concern for their own safety.

A REAL passion for flight starts and ends with safety. Otto and Wilbur and Orville all knew that. Young men and women whose passion for flight often overwhelms any reasonable concern for their own safety don't belong in the sport now any more than they did back then and never have and never will contribute anything positive to it. I wonder if Chris Price wasn't as big an asshole as his son is.

The lessons of personal soaring flight in light-weight wings were extracted from an unforgiving nature at a price that was often painful, and sometimes fatal.

Bullshit. The lessons of personal soaring flight in light-weight wings didn't and don't differ from the lessons of any other fixed wing aircraft flight. Name some wheels that needed to be reinvented to bring us to the point at which we are now.

Nature has not grown more forgiving in those thirty...

Forty plus.

...years, and all the potential for danger is still inherent in this, or in any form of flight.

A few of them have.

Manned Kiting
The Basic Handbook of Tow Launched Hang Gliding
Daniel F. Poynter
1974

"A bad flyer won't hurt a pin man but a bad pin man can kill a flyer." - Bill Bennett
"Never take your hands off the bar." - Tom Peghiny
"The greatest dangers are a rope break or a premature release." - Richard Johnson

Starting in the early Eighties bad pin men became completely harmless, gliders started waiting patiently while people took hands off the bar to effect easy reaches during lockout emergencies, and rope breaks increased the safety of the towing operation and premature releases fixed whatever was going on back there. But Wills Wing gliders aren't designed to be motorized, tethered, or towed...

http://www.willswing.com/learn/scooterTow/
Wills Wing - Scooter Tow Resources

...so that's really not your bailiwick so you really don't need to be concerned about it. Pardon the interruption.

The difference today is that we now understand the requirements for safe flight in hang gliders and paragliders as well and in as much detail as those requirements are understood in other forms of aviation.

FER SURE, dudes! And that's largely thanks to USHGA's fine instructional programs and all those top notch Wills Wing schools/dealerships.

Thanks to the hard work and sacrifices of the founding members of our sport...

People like Bill Moyes, Bobby Bailey, Dennis Pagen, Mike Robertson...

...we now know what it takes to be safe.

A backup loop, a hang check, perfect flare timing, a release within easy reach, and an appropriate weak link with a finished length of 1.5 inches or less. Did I miss anything?

All that remains is for each individual pilot to choose safety, and to act consistently on that choice.

That would be...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3600
Weak link question

Jim Rooney - 2008/11/24 05:18:15 UTC

Well, I'm assuming there was some guff about the tug pilot's right of refusal?
Gee, didn't think we'd have to delve into "pilot in command"... I figured that one's pretty well understood in a flying community.

It's quite simple.
The tug is a certified aircraft... the glider is an unpowered ultralight vehicle. The tug pilot is the pilot in command. You are a passenger. You have the same rights and responsibilities as a skydiver.
It's a bitter pill I'm sure, but there you have it.

BTW, if you think I'm just spouting theory here, I've personally refused to tow a flight park owner over this very issue. I didn't want to clash, but I wasn't towing him. Yup, he wanted to tow with a doubled up weaklink. He eventually towed (behind me) with a single and sorry to disappoint any drama mongers, we're still friends. And lone gun crazy Rooney? Ten other tow pilots turned him down that day for the same reason.

...the Pilot In Command of our glider - 250 feet away in his ultralight, right?

Safety is indeed a choice, and one that each pilot is given the opportunity to make.

Fuck you.

As a pilot, your safety is determined by the quality of the decisions you make.

Like never flying at some douchebag Wills Wing school/dealership which mandates "releases" such as the ones...

http://ozreport.com/pub/images/fingerlakesaccident2.jpg
http://ozreport.com/pub/images/fingerlakesaccident3.jpg

...Rob velcroes onto your demo gliders, and pulls you up through Dragonfly tow mast breakaways and Dragonfly tow mast breakaway protectors.

It is not determined by your skill, or your experience, or your knowledge, but by how well you understand the limitations those three things place on you, and by how well, and how consistently you conduct your flying so as to stay comfortably within those limitations.

Name ONE Wills Wing school/dealership which:
- teaches hook-in checks in compliance with USHGA rating requirements
- aerotows in compliance with FAA weak link regulations

When you first begin to fly, your instructor will make most of those critical decisions for you...

Yeah. He'll start you flying in a harness which forces you upright to fly with...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27086
Steve Pearson on landings

Steve Pearson - 2012/03/28 23:26:05 UTC

I can't control the glider in strong air with my hands at shoulder or ear height and I'd rather land on my belly with my hands on the basetube than get turned downwind.

...your hands in at shoulder or ear height so you can learn how to safely land in a narrow dry riverbed with large rocks strewn all over the place.

...and in so doing, assume the primary responsibility for your safety.

Right. And if he fails to teach you how to adequately...

Gil Dodgen - 1995/01

All of this reminds me of a comment Mike Meier made when he was learning to fly sailplanes. He mentioned how easy it was to land a sailplane (with spoilers for glide-path control and wheels), and then said, "If other aircraft were as difficult to land as hang gliders no one would fly them."

...perfect your flare timing or...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYe3YmdIQTM

...prepare yourself for the possibility of your standard aerotow weak link suddenly increasing the safety of the towing operation it's HIS arm that will be broken - not yours - and his certification and ratings will be suspended for the duration of the recovery time.

(Of course, at the same time, you should be sure that you feel comfortable with what you're doing - and, if you don't, talk it through with your instructor...

37-23223
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3713/9655904048_89cce6423a_o.png

...until you do.)

As you progress, you'll learn how to make decisions for yourself, such as, Do I fly today? Can I handle these wind conditions?...

Will I be able to climb up into the control frame if I unhook between the time of my last hang check and my launch run?...

...etc. Ultimately your goal is to develop a complete, and very accurate understanding of exactly what you are capable of as a pilot, and then to never make a decision that puts you into a situation that you can't handle.

Well yeah. Sure. So how come there are hundreds of total douchebags seeking clarification on hundreds of safety issues from hundreds of other total douchebags with hundreds of opinions which change and reverse hourly on all these web forums after getting certified as Threes by all these Wills Wing schools/dealerships?

We're here to help, by providing you with a wide range of safety-related information.

That's WONDERFUL!!!

I'm assuming that when you refer to:

an appropriate weak link with a finished length of 1.5 inches or less

you mean the single loop of 130 pound Greenspot used as a standard aerotow weak link as referenced in your scooter tow video. So can please explain to us:
- what:
-- its purpose is
-- problems were revealed when other strengths and materials were employed during the trail and error process
- why:
-- there are so many opinions on what its breaking strength is and which one is correct
-- it occasionally doesn't break when it's supposed to and people are killed as consequences
-- USHGA specifies tandem break simulation training only at high altitude in smooth air if it increases the safety of the towing operation
-- you cowardly motherfuckers were so conspicuously absent from all the discussions regarding the Zack Marzec fatality last year

On this web site are technical bulletins regarding glider maintenance and safety and airworthiness advisories, articles on safety, on flying techniques, and how to choose the right equipment, etc.

Anything on:
- wheel landings?
- certified tow releases?
- weak link specifications for specific gliders the way sailplane manufacturers do?
- the best time to do a hang check?

The United States Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association offers a fantastic video (DVD) "Discover Hang Gliding Today".

http://www.willswing.com/learn/images/element_ushgavideo.jpg

AND...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25321
Stop the Stupids at the USHPA BOD meeting

Mark G. Forbes - 2011/09/29 02:26:23 UTC

We can establish rules which we think will improve pilot safety, but our attorney is right. USHPA is not in the business of keeping pilots "safe" and it can't be. Stepping into that morass is a recipe for extinction of our association. I wish it were not so, but it is. We don't sell equipment, we don't offer instruction, and we don't assure pilots that they'll be safe. Even so, we get sued periodically by people who say we "shoulda, coulda, woulda" done something that would have averted their accident.

...a naked statement that it has ZERO interest in keeping pilots "safe" and every intention to avoid doing so. So please explain to us why anyone with half a brain or better would have the slightest confidence in anything learned through a USHGA certified instructor or instructional program.

The video is filled with exciting video footage from around the world and gives a superb introduction to the experience of hang gliding and paragliding.

Sounds like all the cigarette commercials I used to watch as a kid in the Sixties.

Click here to order the DVD directly from USHPA:
http://www.ushpa.aero/store/item_info.asp?pid=189

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404 - File or directory not found.
The resource you are looking for might have been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable.

Keep up the great work, guys.

Kite Strings

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