Releases

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=30872
Nasty AT Launch Cart Accident - Face Plant

Wayne Ripley - 2014/03/06 14:54:45 UTC
Cromwell, Connecticut

800 reasons... please! Try 8000 or worse in medical bills.

Give OP a buzz...

http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=3398
A broken humerus, guess the cost.

Orion Price - 2012/07/16 06:39:18 UTC

It was almost 70k. 68 and change. Just for the surgery.

He's been getting royally screwed.

This doesn't have to be another wheels debate but wheels have a place in aero towing.

At the very least it would be pretty hard to get the tug and dolly rolling without them.

Nate Wreyford - 2014/03/06 16:08:04 UTC

Indeed they do have a place. In this case, their place was to snag on the cart and then dig into the ground.

1. And let's not have radial launch ramps either because...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuSHh0nmKkQ


...people might run off them nose high and crooked and crash back into escarpments.

2. Yes. Take your wheels off and they won't dig into the ground when people come off the cart and lock out. Then you'll have a nice clean control frame corner which will slide freely over the ground while your glider levels out and comes to a gradual and gentle stop.

They have a place but that added security doesn't come without added risk.

Having a carabiner connected to a hang strap doesn't come without added risk. If on 2008/08/29 Jeff Craig's carabiner had been dangling behind his knees on the Kagel launch...



...the same way Kunio Yoshimura's was the following day at Mingus chances are pretty good that he'd have just gotten himself beat up and his glider trashed the same way Robert Burgis did on 2013/08/21 instead of himself totaled in the boulder field shy of the LZ.

But that "reasoning" - like yours - is stupid beyond any description.

I have a set of the wheels below that have never been used. For sale - $135.00

http://www.hanglide.com/?p=409

I'm extremely tempted to buy them myself just to ensure that you're never tempted to put them on a glider you're gonna fly.

Doug Doerfler - 2014/03/06 17:00:47 UTC

I don't use wheels because I do not want them while mountain foot launching.

I don't use:
- a seat belt because I do not want it while getting out of the car.
- headlights because I do not want to leave them on by mistake and run down the battery.

But this should not be blamed on the wheels...

Oh, let's blame the wheels. It SO helps in diverting attention away from his "release".

...they were on the glider before it was put in the chocks. When this glider was first put in the chocks and found that the chocks were so low that the wheels were below frame parts of the cart, they should never have towed.

But they were perfectly OK towing with THIS:

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3391
More on Zapata and weak link

Paul Tjaden - 2008/07/22 04:32:22 UTC

I got clobbered and rolled hard right in a split second. I have never had a lockout situation happen so quickly and dramatically and had no chance to release as I have always thought I could do.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=21033
barrels release without any tension except weight of rope..

Bart Weghorst - 2011/02/25 19:06:26 UTC

I've had it once where the pin had bent inside the barrel from excessive tow force. My weaklink was still intact. The tug pilot's weaklink broke so I had the rope. I had to use two hands to get the pin out of the barrel.

No stress because I was high.

..."release"?

Having the chocks that low is a terrible design.

Yeah, but you really wouldn't want it to clash too much with the rest of his aerotow equipment.

The lifting of the right wing coupled with how low the chocks are put the left wheel well below the cart frame.

And on how many flight prior to that one did these bozos have the opportunity to identify the potential problem?

combat.is.hell - 2014/03/07 15:38:02 UTC
Sweden

Reading the pilot's reply, it seems that the main reason for his crash was lifting with no speed margins, getting into the propeller wash, getting stuck in a decelerating cart etc etc. The wheels and the low placement of the chocks is in that case of secondary nature.

The low cradles are primary. People make mistakes, shit happens so you start off with proper equipment that can handle situations that don't go entirely as planned. Sometimes there are tradeoffs. In this case there weren't.

It is totally possible that he would have crashed in a slightly different way if he didn't have wheels. And it is also totally possible that he would have crashed even if the chocks were placed higher up - be it with or without wheels.

No. If he'd been properly raised nothing would've caught.

I have WW wheels on my T2C glider and always use a cart for take off. Although I never had any problems with this setup, I have had my fair share of hairy situations: from the trike pilot releasing the line by mistake as soon as I lift...

Bullshit. It's physically impossible to get into a hairy situation as a consequence of anybody...

Wills Wing / Blue Sky / Steve Wendt / Ryan Voight Productions - 2007/03

NEVER CUT THE POWER...



Reduce Gradually
Increase Gradually

...cutting the power. You just mistook inconvenience for a hairy situation.

...to flies getting into my eyes...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh3-uZptNw0

...to bad turbulence.

You can handle a lot of turbulence with the kind of airspeed you can obtain on a cart. Nobody's crashing dolly launched aerotows because of turbulence.

In my opinion aerotow will always be a riskier option.

Bullshit. Aerotow dolly launch is all equipment and no skill or physical demands. Running the glider into the air is complex and demanding and not very tolerant of surprises. This one's a no-brainer.

[Tad Eareckson]

Tres Pinos.

Dolly launched, one point, surface tow. Bridle under the bar, Birrenator disengament starting at 1:25. Nice landing approach.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDWdzAZF25U


Great to see that Ryan (Brown)'s landings are so good that he no longer has any need for wheels. I wonder why he needs the Birrenator for the other end of the flight.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=30872
Nasty AT Launch Cart Accident - Face Plant

chasleton - 2014/04/02 10:24:57 UTC

Still got his good looks.

- That he inherited from his father, no doubt.

- As we can clearly see in this photo - thanks to his continuing use of an...

01-001
http://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7375/12981378134_6d44d81e61_o.png

11-311
http://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2550/12981131483_dde259c80d_o.png

15-413
http://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3141/12981414774_e6ddd85c13_o.png


...open face helmet.

this is his first aerowtow on the now modified cart. and on his new Aeros combat gt 09

http://ozreport.com/forum/download/file.php?id=4337

And with the same mostly useless cheap piece of crap he tries to use...

Aerotow launch faliure
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bj-qBsETXPg
Oliver Chitty - 2014/03/02
dead

...as a release.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh3-uZptNw0


You must be very relieved, happy, and proud - as must Aeros.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/9.177
Another bad launch off the cart

Davis Straub - 2005/08/28

And another good outcome that we can learn from.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/meaneyman/sets/788578/
Bad launch good recovery

http://www.flickr.com/photos/meaneyman/35642942/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/meaneyman/35642828/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/meaneyman/35642837/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/meaneyman/35642853/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/meaneyman/35642875/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/meaneyman/35642889/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/meaneyman/35642904/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/meaneyman/35642917/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/meaneyman/35642816/


Tim Meaney has published a series of photos which show a poor launch by an Exxtacy pilot at the 2005 Big Spring Open. The Exxtacy's right wing has come up while the pilot is still on the cart. In addition, the right wing has come up so high that the right side of the control frame has also come off the cart and isn't being held horizontal. This means that the spoileron on the right side isn't deployed, or deployed as much as it would be if the pilot had held (or been able to hold) the control frame onto the cart. If the spoileron had been deployed, the right wing would have had a tendency to come back down. In this case, it didn't.

In the second frame the left wing is dragging on the runway and the weaklink has broken. This is a good thing. The pilot is in trouble and you want that weaklink broken so that he isn't dragged down the runway. Notice that he hasn't moved his hands at all, and doesn't throughout this sequence of photos. The weak weaklink does the heavy lifting for him. Use a properly sized weaklink!

The pilot is also using wheels and in this case that is a very good idea. The pilot comes off the cart very low with perhaps no time or speed to get up on the downtubes and get his feet underneath him. It's real nice to have the wheels between the pilot's knuckles and the asphalt.

One question (or actually more). Why did the right wing come up? Was no one running the pilot's wing? Didn't the pilot notice the wind direction? Couldn't the pilot hold on better? Notice the pilot is not holding onto the orange handles in these photos.

Davis Straub - 2005/08/28

And another good outcome that we can learn from.

- Can you give us a list of the stupid pigfuckers who authorized you to speak on their behalf?

- There's not a goddam thing anybody with half a brain or better could possibly learned from this one.

- This was not a good outcome. If this asshole had been killed - or, better yet, quaded - that would've helped get some of this crap equipment out of circulation.

Tim Meaney has published a series of photos which show a poor launch by an Exxtacy pilot at the 2005 Big Spring Open.

Big Spring... Isn't that the venue where...

http://ozreport.com/rules.php
2014 Big Spring Nationals Rules

2014 Big Spring Nationals at Big Spring, Texas

2.0 EQUIPMENT

Appropriate aerotow bridles

Competitors must use appropriate aerotow bridles as determined by the Meet Director and Safety Director and their designated officials. Bridles must include secondary releases (as determined by the Safety Director). Bridles must be able to be connected to the tow line within two seconds. The only appropriate bridles can be found here:
http://OzReport.com/9.039#0
and
http://ozreport.com/9.041#2

Pilots who have not already had their bridles inspected during the practice days must bring their bridles to the mandatory pilot safety briefing and have them reviewed. Pilots with inappropriate bridles may purchase appropriate bridles from the meet organizer.

Weaklinks

Pilots must use weaklinks provided by the meet organizers and in a manner approved by the meet organizers. All weaklinks will be checked and use of inappropriate weaklinks will require the pilot to go to the end of the launch line to change the weaklink.

Weaklinks should be placed at one end of a shoulder bridle. The tow forces on the weaklink will be roughly divided in half by this placement. Pilots will be shown how to tie the weaklink so that it more likely breaks at its rating breaking strength.

...you dictate that everybody needs to fly with the kind of shit you and your pigfucker buddies endorse, stamp out, sell?

The Exxtacy's right wing has come up while the pilot is still on the cart.

How the fuck do you know? We never see the "pilot" or the glider on the cart. In the first frame the glider's lifted and rolled about twenty degrees and only the port end of its basetube is still in contact with the cradle.

In addition, the right wing has come up so high that the right side of the control frame has also come off the cart and isn't being held horizontal. This means that the spoileron on the right side isn't deployed, or deployed as much as it would be if the pilot had held (or been able to hold) the control frame onto the cart. If the spoileron had been deployed, the right wing would have had a tendency to come back down. In this case, it didn't.

Duh.

In the second frame the left wing is dragging on the runway and the weaklink has broken.

Exactly as it was supposed to. Before he could get into too much trouble.

This is a good thing.

And a SURE thing as well.

The pilot is in trouble and you want that weaklink broken so that he isn't dragged down the runway.

How come he doesn't just release?

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=229
Quest Friday, shoulder towing

Paul Tjaden - 2005/03/05 13:26:19 UTC

I also feel it may be easier to pin off in case of a lockout because you have a Bailey (for me, two of them, one on each side) and they are much closer to your center of gravity. Reaching that handle way out to the side can be challenging in a hard turn. The Bailey is right there.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks

Davis Straub - 2013/03/10 12:04:42 UTC

I like and will keep my barrel release. You can keep yours.

Notice that he hasn't moved his hands at all, and doesn't throughout this sequence of photos.

- But Paul says...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1079
$15 pacifiers

Paul Tjaden - 2005/10/08 21:34:44 UTC

BTW, In both instances I was using an off the shoulders, pro tow type bridle with Bailey release. I've always felt that it was quick and easy to use this type of bridle and release. It was right under my nose and took only a split second to pull it. There was never any delay or anxiety caused by taking my hand off the base tube to reach for it. I quickly had both my hands back on the bar and don't feel it contributed to any loss of control.

...with the release right under his nose it only takes a split second to pull it and he doesn't feel doing so contributes to any loss of control. And Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney says...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks

Jim Rooney - 2013/03/05 01:32:20 UTC

Btw, it's nothing to do with you "counting" on the weaklink breaking... Its about me not trusting you to hit the release.
If it were only about what you want, then you could use what you like.
You want the strongest weaklink you can have.
I want you to have the weakest one practical.. I don't care how much it inconveniences you.
I don't trust you as a rule. You Trust you , but I don't and shouldn't.

...that only stupid weekend warrior muppets won't release in timely manners in emergency situations and GOOD pilots, such as yourself...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec

Jim Rooney - 2013/02/15 06:48:18 UTC

Davis has been at an around all this plenty long enough to understand what's what and who's who.

...who've been at an around all this plenty long enough to understand what's what and who's who, can use the stronglinks Morningside decided they were happy with because they WILL...


http://ozreport.com/pub/images/fingerlakesaccident2.jpg
http://ozreport.com/pub/images/fingerlakesaccident3.jpg


...let go of the basetube to release. But YOU'RE making it sound like keeping both hands on the bar at all times is a GOOD thing. This is most confusing.

The weak weaklink does the heavy lifting for him.

- How do you know what it was? You don't seem to know anything more about this incident than what we can all see in the photos.

- Wanna tell us what it is so we all can be sure to use the same one?

- Is that weak link gonna be just as safe for a 200 pound glider as it will for a 350?

- Are there any disadvantages to having weak weak links in other circumstances?

- Can you tell us what to use in the way of Gs to ensure that we won't be dragged?

- Is there any possibility that a weak weak link will hold until a ground looping glider slams in and kills the "pilot", thus rendering the dragging issue irrelevant?

Use a properly sized weaklink!

With a finished length of 1.5 inches or less? Tell us what a "PROPERLY SIZED" weak link is and what makes it so - motherfucker.

The pilot is also using wheels and in this case that is a very good idea.

No...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/meaneyman/35642853/


...shit.

- So when the fuck is it NOT a very good idea?

- But doesn't someone who risks launching and landing without wheels in order to reduce drag get rewarded for doing so at your pecker measuring contests?

The pilot comes off the cart very low with perhaps no time or speed to get up on the downtubes and get his feet underneath him. It's real nice to have the wheels between the pilot's knuckles and the asphalt.

Yeah, it's just a matter of not scraping knuckles. It's not like wheels could make the difference between getting back in line for another go and getting quaded or killed.

One question (or actually more). Why did the right wing come up?

Who the fuck cares? We all know how to dolly launch and we all know that people fuck up every now and then. And those of us with functional brains know that getting on a cart with a Davis Link being one's only hope of dealing with a primary fuckup or any other flavor of emergency is a really good way to get killed.

Was no one running the pilot's wing?

Who the fuck cares?

- The main function of a wing runner is to get the glider rolling on a grass strip so the Davis Link holds long enough to get the glider in a dangerous situation?

- How long do you think a runner could've been functional on a paved runway?

- Is there some law of nature that says a runner can prevent gliders from tip stalling, ground looping, locking out?

Didn't the pilot notice the wind direction?

Did...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/meaneyman/35642904/


...you? Looks like it's coming straight down the runway at about zero miles per hour.

Couldn't the pilot...

The dope on the rope?

...hold on better? Notice the pilot is not holding onto the orange handles in these photos.

Notice this pilot:

27-41810
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5579/14820212815_4a9087727f_o.png


isn't either.

Notice the "pilot" in question IS holding onto the port hold-down...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/meaneyman/35642942/


...in the first frame.

Notice the glaringly conspicuous absence of the word "release"...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JjtEnudT8Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh3-uZptNw0


...anywhere in your fuckin' idiot post. And that ain't happening by accident.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://vimeo.com/38334812

password - red

http://ozreport.com/16.019
"GETOFF" Primary Release
2012/01/25 17:59:48 UTC

http://www.getoffrelease.com/
getoffrelease.com - Hang gliding aerotow release

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/
http://www.EnergyKiteSystems.net/Lift/hgh/TadEareckson/mousetraps.pdf

01-1225
http://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7436/13700570583_049b5b7ded_o.png

02-1302
http://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7117/13700891354_b31d51ed74_o.png

03-1304
http://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2938/13700558193_0e0946218e_o.png

04-1317
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05-1414
http://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2826/13700522305_e3844ef52a_o.png

[Steve Davy]

Those are some real cool photos of Zack's set-up, Tad. Thanks for putting those up.

It sure is nice to see that he's configured with quality equipment. Also nice to see what that equipment looks like in the air.

[Tad Eareckson]

Of course / Obviously they're from his nice high resolution video but, yeah, the stills are cool. Sometimes you can see what's going on a lot better with an instant frozen in time than you can with a video clip or being there. It's fun watching that bridle feed through the tow ring.

You'd think that stuff like that would sell itself but The Industry is so dedicated to killing anything that isn't the revolting bent pin crap that it sells and the only thing that Joe hang glider jockey is willing to do to try to increase his long term survival probability is head to the training hill or a Ryan Voight landing clinic and spend the weekend working on perfecting his flare timing - and maybe coming home with a broken arm for his efforts.

[Steve Davy]

Strange stuff. Have a look at this:

http://ozreport.com/overunder.php

[Tad Eareckson]

I'd seen that before.

- It's referenced at:
http://ozreport.com/10.126
Over/under bridle
2006/06/19 13:14:25 UTC

- I used the quote from Phil Brown about needing TWO hands to fly a locking out glider in my document to the useless fucking FAA at:
http://www.energykitesystems.net/Lift/hgh/TadEareckson/4144review.pdf

- Have previously gone to the effort of understanding what he did.

My take... There are WAY better ways to engineer this solution - simpler, cleaner, lighter, better mechanical advantage. For example...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=il3YPp3Rfq8


Discussed this earlier...

http://www.kitestrings.org/post3337.html#p3337

Dolly launch the flight, then use a Remote Barrel:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh3-uZptNw0


or Emergency Three-String to climb through the kill zone, then before blowing that stage engage SOMETHING under the bar. Ideally Stage Two lets you keep both hands on the basetube - you could use the same mechanism as for Stage One - but it's no BFD if it doesn't.

But anyway... Hell, at least he was doing SOMETHING and coming up with SOMETHING that WORKED. And eight years ago Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney hadn't yet declared himself to be the global Imperial Grand Dragon in charge of everything aerotowing in general and protecting the sport from every effort to improve on the crap Bobby Fucking-Genius Bailey perpetrated on us over two decades ago in particular.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31045
Truck towing. Second try with new rig.

Garrett Speeter - 2014/04/06 18:27:56 UTC
Fairbanks

Three hang glider pilots and one pg pilot each did two flights.
Went to Clear Airport this time. The airport manager at clear is a pretty enthusiastic trike pilot and is pretty supportive of HG.
It was a good time.
Still working the bugs out.
Location = interior Alaska

http://vimeo.com/91188556

Devin Wagner - 2014/04/08 02:05:33 UTC

it all looks great

if i was you id have the pilot release him self and make sure you wing tip is level with the ground (as in aoa) makes takeoffs very smooth.

Yeah, it's really important that the pilot be able to RELEASE HIMSELF from the platform when he's got tons of airspeed and is clamped level with a low pitch attitude and the benefit of runway streamers if he wants them.

007-04101
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3679/13745950735_90aabe780a_o.png


But don't give the slightest thought to the fact that he has no ability whatsoever to RELEASE HIMSELF once he's airborne and...

014-04221
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3806/13745948525_5582fa1a40_o.png

016-04308
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3799/13746342624_c9b015f814_o.png

022-04610
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2809/13746340634_a74b33d285_o.png


...has ANY kind of serious problem. Hell, that's why we fly with weak links..

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=18868
Almost lockout

Ryan Voight - 2010/09/07 02:50:00 UTC

Weak link in truck towing WILL (read: should) still break in a lockout situation... but as everyone has already pointed out, it takes a lot longer because the glider can continue to pull line off the winch.

And if it's taking a bit longer than you'd like, just...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=14230
pro tow set-up

Ryan Voight - 2009/11/03 05:24:31 UTC

It works best in a lockout situation... if you're banked away from the tug and have the bar back by your belly button... let it out. Glider will pitch up, break weaklink, and you fly away.

During a "normal" tow you could always turn away from the tug and push out to break the weaklink... but why would you?

Have you never pondered what you would do in a situation where you CAN'T LET GO to release? I'd purposefully break the weaklink, as described above. Instant hands free release

...push out and roll harder.

088-05301
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3708/13746233274_c1a80f35c1_o.png


Bob Buxton accident
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2oeb0nNIKs
Scott Buxton - 2013/02/10
dead
http://www.kitestrings.org/post5902.html#p5902

Instant hands free release.

Also, it's a real good idea to have a Birrenator...



...configured into your system. That way if you get pitched up to a dangerously high attitude the Birrenator will kick in and prevent you from getting pitched up any higher. Works a lot like a Rooney Link...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-bRrpHNa68iY/UQ6Pv9gRZyI/AAAAAAAAjTg/Hc22bx5122Q/s2048/20943781_BG1.jpg


...'cept the pitch angle limitation is a whole lot more predictable.

And make sure you've got somebody on that dump lever at all times - prepared to instantly...

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8143/7462005802_bbc0ac66ac_o.jpg


...fix whatever's going on back there.

fly safe and have fun

Yeah Garrett, you make sure you FLY SAFE. 'Cause if you don't you don't have the margins to deal with much of anything.

ps i have about a 1000 truck tows under my belt and my own tow rig

Wow. That's quite a long track record. Certainly so long that you don't need to think about any worst case scenarios - 'cept for fake ones involved in letting somebody else pop the glider off the platform.