instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

General discussion about the sport of hang gliding
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=30199
Incident - 2013/06/16
Stephen Smith - 2014/05/11 22:06:37 UTC
Rio Vista, California

Image Image Image Image
Me too Image
http://www.hanggliding.org/wiki/HG_ORG_Mission_Statement
HangGliding.Org's Mission Statement
To provide a friendly and positive, approachable community for people interested in the sport of HG
To provide a friendly community for Hang Glider pilots to hang out and discuss hang gliding
Failed pretty miserably on those issues too, hasn't it Steve?
michael170 - 2014/05/12 18:43:29 UTC
Paul Hurless - 2014/05/11 03:19:34 UTC

Well, rookie, I did build and test one release mechanism without actually mounting on my wing and it did easily test to a loading of far greater than would ever be encountered during a tow.
1. So you did actually build and test something but stated that you hadn't bothered.
2. Well that certainly qualifies you to piss on designs that have been mounted on wings.
3. What was its load to actuation ratio?
a loading of far greater than would ever be encountered during a tow : easy
I did it for personal curiosity and it wasn't difficult.
Without actually mounting it on your wing...
Like I said, I am not aerotowing now so after satisfying that curiosity I moved on to other projects.
Pissing on equipment that's been mounted on wings and put in the air, and hitting the sink this button.
Do tell us about some of the other projects you've been working on all these years, Paul. And please clue us in as to how they've been benefitting hang gliding, some other flavor of aviation, and/or the planet in general.
Mounting it and flight testing it would have not proved anything.
Mounting it might have shown discrepancies in the design.
What design? We were supposed to see sketch of it in a couple of days five years ago.
Like I also said, it's not rocket science.
It is for Bobby.
And he's a fucking genius when it comes to this shit.
It's just basic mechanics, something some of us do every day.
Stick with the basic stuff, Paul.
As far as a Bailey release locking up, it never happened to me maybe you're just not using it or taking care of it correctly.
Tell that to Bart Weghorst.
Good luck telling ANYTHING to that total fucking asshole.
Like everything mechanical, some small amount of care and skill is required to operate and maintain them.
No. Regardless of how often you change the oil and rebend the pin....

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=16384
Tow Release Malfunction
Jim Rooney - 2010/03/26 20:54:43 UTC

Bent pin releases are indeed very very reliable. But 100%? Nope. It's exceptionally rare, but they jam. All mechanical things do.
...it WILL fail. It's inevitable. It's something mechanical. That's why we fly with 130 pound Greenspot and hook knives. Don't you think that if there were a way we could make sure it would work all the time that Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney would know what it was and tell us all what a bunch of asswipes we were for not knowing it and doing it?
What does A&P stand for, Paul?
"Only Services Stuff That Other People Have Designed And Built" It's Czech - which is why the letters don't match.
Yes, Rube Goldberg. Look it up if you aren't familiar with that name.
I see you spelled the name correctly, and added capitalization.
I missed the spelling. Slipping faster and faster with each passing day
I think I have figured out why you are so antagonistic towards people and always gleefully trying to point out faults even when they don't exist, things like "whipstalls" when someone mentions a landing problem.
You haven't figured out shit. I rattle the cage in order to get dipsticks like you to publicly embarrass themselves with loads of self-defeating replies, and you never disappoint.
He's an ABSOLUTE JOY! Nobody comes close to Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney though. Every time I see a new post with his name on it it's like Christmas morning.
It must be self-loathing because of your realization that you will never have the close, "personal" relationship with your man crush, Tad.
With scum like you allowed to run around loose who's got any time left over for SELF loathing?
See above.
It's pretty reassuring to see the consistency in brains and character of the dregs who resort to that kind of attack.
2014/05/12 19:26:00 UTC - Sink This! -- Kinsley Sykes
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Tad Eareckson
Posts: 9161
Joined: 2010/11/25 03:48:55 UTC

Re: instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=30199
Incident - 2013/06/16
2014/05/12 19:26:00 UTC - Sink This! -- Kinsley Sykes
Hey Kinsley...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=16265
weaklinks
Kinsley Sykes - 2010/03/18 19:42:19 UTC

In the old threads there was a lot of info from a guy named Tad. Tad had a very strong opinion on weak link strength and it was a lot higher than most folks care for. I'd focus carefully on what folks who tow a lot have to say. Or Jim Rooney who is an excellent tug pilot. I tow with the "park provided" weak links. I think they are 130 pound Greenspot.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22308
Better mouse trap(release)?
Jim Rooney - 2010/12/16 18:47:05 UTC

A few years ago, I started refusing to tow people with home made gear.
I like the idea of improving gear, but the lack of appreciation for the world they were stepping into didn't sit with me.
For example... flying with the new gear in mid day conditions?
Are you kidding me????

Approach it for what it is... completely untested and very experimental gear which will likely fail in new and unforseen ways as it tries it's damndest to kill you... and then we can talk.
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=30199
Incident - 2013/06/16
Paul Hurless - 2014/05/10 23:10:01 UTC

I actually came up with several. I'm not interested in producing any, so they would only be for myself, but since I am not currently doing any aerotowing I haven't bothered.
There are numerous ways to make sound, easy to operate releases that mount into the glider on a semi-permanent way and operate while keeping both hands on the control frame and without being a rube golberg type like those favored by your hero, Tad. Even the Bailey releases your mentor hates can be mounted to be operated that way. It's not rocket science.
If you were really interested, instead of just trying to be a shit-stirrer, you would be able to figure this simple sort of thing out for yourself.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
Kinsley Sykes - 2011/08/25 04:12:33 UTC

An eminently qualified tandem pilot reported a random incident that we all could learn from
My response would be - "Thanks for letting us know that we have to be careful about how long our weaklinks are".
All the other crap you (ridgerodent) wrote is just noise.
Jim Rooney - 2011/08/25 04:55:25 UTC

Ditto dude.

It always amazes to hear know it all pilots arguing with the professional pilots.
I mean seriously, this is our job.
We do more tows in a day than they do in a month (year for most).

We *might* have an idea of how this stuff works.
They *might* do well to listen.
Not that they will, mind you... cuz they *know*.

I mean seriously... ridgerodent's going to inform me as to what Kroop has to say on this? Seriously? Steve's a good friend of mine. I've worked at Quest with him. We've had this discussion ... IN PERSON. And many other ones that get misunderstood by the general public. It's laughable.

Don't even get me started on Tad. That obnoxious blow hard has gotten himself banned from every flying site that he used to visit... he doesn't fly anymore... because he has no where to fly. His theories were annoying at best and downright dangerous most of the time. Good riddance.

So, argue all you like.
I don't care.
I've been through all these arguments a million times... this is my job.
I could be more political about it, but screw it... I'm not in the mood to put up with tender sensibilities... Some weekend warrior isn't about to inform me about jack sh*t when it comes to towing. I've got thousands upon thousands of tows under my belt. I don't know everything, but I'll wager the house that I've got it sussed a bit better than an armchair warrior.
Kinsley Sykes - 2011/08/31 11:35:36 UTC

Well actually he didn't. But if you don't want to listen to the folks that actually know what they are talking about, go ahead.
Feel free to go the the tow park that Tad runs...
http://zweefvliegopleiding.nl/index.php/thermiek
Image
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-bRrpHNa68iY/UQ6Pv9gRZyI/AAAAAAAAjTg/Hc22bx5122Q/s2048/20943781_BG1.jpg
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http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=28290
Report about fatal accident at Quest Air Hang Gliding
Lauren Tjaden - 2013/02/07 23:56:42 UTC

I am posting the report my husband, Paul Tjaden, just wrote about Zach Marzec's death at Quest. It is a great tragedy to lose someone so young and vital. We are sick about it, and our hearts go out to his friends, family and loved ones.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec
Jim Rooney - 2013/02/11 19:22:18 UTC

Of course not... it's Asshole-ese.

Sorry, I'm sick and tired of all these soap box bullshit assheads that feel the need to spout their shit at funerals. I just buried my friend and you're seizing the moment to preach your bullshit? GO FUCK YOURSELF!!!!!!!!

I can barely stand these pompus asswipes on a normal day.
Keep sticking with the idiots, liars, frauds, bullies, cowards, and serial killers. The sport tends to get real lonely otherwise.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=30199
Incident - 2013/06/16
Allen Sparks - 2014/05/12 22:11:24 UTC

Michael170 - are you Tad (aka T** at K*** S******) ?
What the fuck does it matter?

- Who's making more sense? michael170 or Paul Hurless?

- What's T** at K*** S****** ever done to merit getting locked out of any of these shit heaps that cherish your presence so much anway? Anything other than being right about everything?

- You OK with what Paul's doing? I guess so 'cause you're more interested in michael170's identity than you are on calling Paul out on that shit. Hell, apparently everybody's just fine with it. Over twenty-two hours now and not the slightest hint of any of the censure it so totally deserved.

And how come you deleted your post?
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Tad Eareckson
Posts: 9161
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Re: instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=37464
Young HG instructors
Gordon Rigg - 2014/05/13 09:23:52 UTC

How many hang gliding instructors are there left in the world who are more than five years away from retiring?
Who gives a rat's ass? My feeling is that teaching entry level hang gliding is so basic, repetitious, tedious, boring that anybody with anything better than a mid double digit IQ will go insane after the novelty wears off in a few months. So the only people who stay on are total morons incapable of doing anything more challenging and imaginative. If you disagree please cite some individuals who provide evidence to the contrary.
The age of our flying community is directly reflected in the age of HG instructors.
Instructing requires a lot of running about.
Unless you're towing.
When I learned to fly the instructors were a little bit older than me - about 30 years old.
When I learned to fly and started teaching on the dunes the instructors were young and very seldom stayed on more than a season. I was burnt out after the equivalent of about two thirds of one.
The instructors left teaching are the same ones.
Average IQ?
As most of the instructors approach 60, I fear UK hang gliding instruction is going to suddenly cease, some of the schools are already throttling back as they are too old to deal with too many students...
When hang gliding started out people would order gilder kits which included sheets covering assembly and flying instructions. Yeah, it was a bloodbath in the mid to late Seventies but...
- a lot of that was because:
-- the gliders didn't have reflex bridles and washout struts
-- idiots were tying themselves to their gliders using clothesline without backup clothesline
-- tow bridles were connected at the basetube rather than the pilot
- the vast majority of the victims had gone through certified instruction programs anyway
They are finding they are having to look for ways to make their living with less physical effort - and of course there is an obvious way to do that...
Assuming, of course, one has a better than mid double digits IQ.
I guess it's a similar story all over the world.
Yep.

But in the UK you have the same sleazy idiot douchebags at the top and running things who we have in the US and that translates down the chain through instructors to students.

I'd wager that if you eliminated commercial instruction and standup landings and provided solid training manuals and instructional videos the kind of person who should be flying hang gliders could teach himself to fly by working his way up the training hill and we'd have better pilots and a better sport than we do now in this terminal hang-check/spiral-fracture-of-the-humerus/standard-aerotow-weak-link/tandem-thrill-ride slide we're all watching as things are.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=37482
When the lake is missing
Davis Straub - 2014/05/15 22:19:11 UTC

Take off from a moving platform, sort of like we do
And also sort of like carrier pilots do?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88o4UhSeCx0
Sea Plane Takes Off From Truck Trailer
SeD -YaK - 2014/05/16
dead

Thanks to Ed Horton
And also thanks to Jerry Forburger and Mike Haley. Without their brilliant insights the idea of launching aircraft from moving platforms would never have occurred to anyone. Just one of scores of debts conventional aviation owes to hang gliding.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.kitestrings.org/post2543.html#p2543
Higher EDUCATION - 2011/07
HOW TO GET THE USHPA AEROTOW RATING

by Drs. Lisa Colletti & Tracy Tillman

It is our understanding that the title of our previous article struck a chord with the magazine's editorial staff--thus, the name of our monthly column is changing from "Towline" to "Higher Education." That's just fine with us. Although we sometimes discuss some issues not directly associated with towing, we will still have an emphasis on towing. This month, our discussion is on how to get the USHPA Aerotow (AT) rating, along with a mention of some recent towing-related changes to USHPA s Standard Operating Procedures (SOPs). An example syllabus and curriculum for AT instruction is presented.

TRACY: About a year ago, I was looking through the USHPA SOPs and other official USHPA aerotowing documents and found the Aerotow (AT) credential referenced in different places as a rating, a special skill, an appointment, and even a certification. What is it, really?

LISA: It is a rating. The USHPA SOPs have recently been cleaned-up to clarify that, and the revision of other official USHPA aerotowing documents is currently in-process.

TRACY: Why is it considered to be a rating rather than a special skill?

LISA: Aerotowing is one of the most advanced and difficult skills in which to become proficient in hang gliding, and, like being a tug pilot or a tandem instructor, the AT pilot bears some responsibility for the safety of another person (the tug pilot) while being towed. As such, aerotowing is something that needs to be learned from a good aerotow instructor or administrator, rather than being self-taught. Therefore, it is considered a rating, which is awarded by an instructor or administrator, rather than a special skill [SOP 12-02.11] that is just observed and received from an observer [SOP 12-05.04].
It is our understanding that the title of our previous article struck a chord with the magazine's editorial staff--thus, the name of our monthly column is changing from "Towline" to "Higher Education."
Yeah Trisa, I'll bet it did. And here's a bit of the kind of response to the crap you publish from OUTSIDE of the Industry:
Zack C - 2012/06/02 02:20:45 UTC

I just cannot fathom how our sport can be so screwed up.
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=26302
HIGHER EDUCATION ?
michael170 - 2012/06/06 03:14:26 UTC

Did anyone here bother to read Drs. Lisa Colletti and Tracy Tillman's thirteen page idiotic article in the June issue of USHPA's worthless magazine?
NMERider - 2012/06/06 03:25:09 UTC

You are being much too complimentary IMHO. I got so nauseated reading it I had to take a breather. Do you mean to tell me they wrote an article that wasn't insipid and self-congratulatory to the extreme? I've found their entire series on aerotowing to come off rather poorly to say the least. A sad waste of such exalted and highly qualified medical professionals. How do I know this? Well they won't stop patting each other on the back about how great they both are.
Pardon me while I puke. Image
Mike Lake - 2012/06/09 00:25:14 UTC

Cone of safety, flying with a fin is better for your weak-link, too many other examples from the last few pages.
What a load of shit.
Who are these people?
Steve Davy - 2012/06/09 22:38:46 UTC

Congratulations Tracy, you made it to the podium of USHPA's top ranked idiots.
The USHPA SOPs have recently been cleaned-up to clarify that, and the revision of other official USHPA aerotowing documents is currently in-process.
Why? I thought they were...

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/skysailingtowing/message/7067
AT SOPs - proposed revisions
Subj: Re: [Tow] AT SOPs - proposed revisions
Date: 2009/05/10 02:08:52 UTC
From: cloud9sa@aol.com
To: skysailingtowing@yahoogroups.com
cc: GreggLudwig@aol.com, lisa@lisatateglass.com

Hi Tad.

I'm Tracy Tillman, on the USHPA BOD, on the Tow Committe, and I am an Aviation Safety Counselor on the FAA Safety Team (FAAST) for the Detroit FSDO area. As a rep of both the USHPA and FAA, I would like to help you, USHPA, and the FAA improve safety in flying, towing, and hang gliding.

The FAA gets a lot of letters of complaint from a lot of yahoos. For best effect, I suggest that you describe in your letter (and also post to the skysailingtowing group and share with the USHPA Tow Committee) your areas of expertise (if any) related to this issue, and list your qualifiications, logged hours, and currency in certain categories, such as:

1. hang glider pilot rating and logged hours
2. hang glider aerotow rating, logged hours, and logged number of tows
3. hang glider tug pilot rating, logged hours towing, and logged number of tows
4. hang glider aerotow administrator appointment date
5. hang glider aerotow supervisor appointment date
6. hang glider tanderm instructor rating, logged hours of aerotow tandem instruction, and logged number of instructional flights
7. airplane pilot license ratings and logged number of hours
8. airplane tow pilot endorsement date, logged number of hours towing with airplane, logged number of tows
9. sailplane tow pilot license ratings, logged number of hours, logged number of tows.
10. sailplane instructor license date, logged number of hours of instruction, logged number of instructional tows
11. any other flying or engineering-related credentials that you may have as evidence of your competence to make these claims...
...perfect - motherfucker.
Aerotowing is one of the most advanced and difficult skills in which to become proficient in hang gliding...
Yes. Of course it is.
The United States Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association, Inc. - 2011
Standard Operating Procedure
12. Rating System
02. Pilot Proficiency System
12. USHPA Hang Gliding Aerotow Ratings

-A. Aerotow Rating (AT)

The aerotow skill is a demonstration of the pilot's ability to launch and tow successfully and safely behind a flying tow vehicle. This rating is available to Novice and above rated pilots...
You need to have a NOVICE rating to be able to qualify.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcPhIzCFtC4
Morning Flight
01-03810
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7358/14063087972_3ef6d0163b_o.png
Image

That means you need to have had...
The United States Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association, Inc. - 2011
Standard Operating Procedure
12. Rating System
02. Pilot Proficiency System
07. Novice Hang Gliding Rating
-B. Required Witnessed Tasks
01. Logged Requirements

-a. Attends a minimum of 8 hours of ground school theory.
...eight hours of ground school theory (Would reading your article on weak links do it? That took me about ten hours.) and be able to...
02. Demonstrated Skills and Knowledge

-h. While in preferred flying position, demonstrates flight(s) along a planned path alternating "S" turns of at least 90° change in heading. Flight heading need not exceed 45° from straight into wind. Turns must be smooth with controlled airspeed, ending in safe, stand-up landings on a heading.

-i. Demonstrates 180° turns in both directions, and at various speeds and bank angles.
...turn a glider up to 180 degrees. Pretty heady stuff.
...and, like being a tug pilot or a tandem instructor, the AT pilot bears some responsibility for the safety of another person (the tug pilot) while being towed.
- So with USHGA's shoddy history of aerotowing - with its lax rating requirements allowing people to qualify minus the benefits of tandem instruction and fins and with virtually nothing but shit for releases which render the back end guys total dopes on ropes in lockout situations can you cite ONE SINGLE INSTANCE of a tug driver being so much as SCARED in a situation with an out of position glider?

And NO, you can't count the late Chris Bulger with John Pendry behind him and Dave Farkas with the late Bill Bennett and Mike Del Signore behind him. You can't go up with a total piece of shit for a front end release and put yourself out of position with respect to a glider that's staying in position.

- Fuck the tug pilot.

- He's knowingly pulling inherently roll unstable towed gliders with total useless shit for releases - which he often sells and mandates - and often deadly pro toad bridles...

03-02421
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7200/14097626583_03972773c6_o.png
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http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Xh_NfnOcUns/UZ4Lm0HvXnI/AAAAAAAAGyk/0PlgrHfc__M/s1024/GOPR5279.JPG

...into conditions he KNOWS can...
Bill Bryden - 2000/02

Dennis Pagen informed me several years ago about an aerotow lockout that he experienced. One moment he was correcting a bit of alignment with the tug and the next moment he was nearly upside down. He was stunned at the rapidity. I have heard similar stories from two other aerotow pilots.
...roll the most skilled and experienced flyers on the planet nearly upside down in a heartbeat - regardless of the chintziness of their fishing line.

- There's not a tug on the planet that's ever gone up with a release actuator "within easy reach". Every goddam last stick controlled tug has had a...

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7509/15659143120_a9aae8f7bd_o.jpg
Image

...lever on the joystick and every goddam last weight shift controlled tug has had a...

Image

...built in pedal actuated system.

Any tug driver too fucking stupid to squeeze the lever or stomp the pedal before his plane is significantly compromised by an out of position glider - be it out of position because of an act of Mother Nature, the incompetence of the guy on the glider, or his own incompetence deserves to be killed instantly - and nobody should bother shedding a tear.

Ditto and for the same reason for any glider driver who plummets to his death because he can't be bothered to do something on the order of THIS:

13-03110
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14-03129

just prior to every foot launch he ever makes - like it says in the book.

The ONLY things that are crashing and:

- injuring tugs are stalls on takeoffs:

-- induced by the pilot

http://ozreport.com/forum/files/2_264.jpg
Image

-- resulting from engine failures which were the fault of the pilot...

Image

...or the consequence of a crappy engine design

- killing tugs...

Image
Image
Image

...are control system failures on the Bill Moyes / Bobby Bailey Dragonfly that nobody's doing or saying anything about. So if you're so fucking concerned about the safety of that other person how come you're not publishing any Higher Education articles on THOSE issues?
As such, aerotowing is something that needs to be learned from a good aerotow instructor or administrator...
The way that Frank Spears, Victor Cox, Jeremiah Thompson, Roy Messing, Lois Preston, and this:

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=18777
Accident - Broken Jaw - Full Face HG Helmet
Keith Skiles - 2010/08/28 05:20:01 UTC

Last year, at LMFP I saw an incident in aerotow that resulted in a very significant impact with the ground on the chest and face. Resulted in a jaw broken in several places and IIRC some tears in the shoulder.
unnamed and unreported on student were?
...rather than being self-taught.
Name some self-taught AT pilots who've eaten it because they were self-taught.

Should we hook up with Ben...

Image

...Dunn? He's a USHGA certified tandem aerotow instructor. How 'bout Zack...

13302
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7395/13626862385_ae79ba296a_o.png
Image

...Marzec?

Lauren Eminently-Qualified-

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24534
It's a wrap
Lauren Tjaden - 2011/08/01 02:01:06 UTC

For whomever asked about the function of a weak link, it is to release the glider and plane from each other when the tow forces become greater than desirable -- whether that is due to a lockout or a malfunction of equipment or whatever. This can save a glider, a tow pilot, or more often, a hang glider pilot who does not get off of tow when he or she gets too far out of whack.

I rarely break weak links -- in fact, I believe the last one was some two years ago, and I have never broken one on a tandem (probably because I am light and also because I change them whenever they show any signs of wear). They are a good thing to have, though!!
ImageImageImageImage

Tandem-Pilot Tjaden?

Bart No-Stress-Because-

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
Bart Weghorst - 2011/08/28 20:29:27 UTC

Now I don't give a shit about breaking strength anymore. I really don't care what the numbers are. I just want my weaklink to break every once in a while.
I-Was-High Weghorst?

Brad...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks
Brad Gryder - 2013/02/21 23:25:31 UTC

There's also a way to swing your body way outside the control frame so it stays up there while you reach out with one hand and release. Come on - do some pushups this winter. See if you can advance up to some one-arm pushups.
...Gryder?

Jim Keen-

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec
Jim Rooney - 2013/02/11 19:22:18 UTC

Of course not... it's Asshole-ese.

Sorry, I'm sick and tired of all these soap box bullshit assheads that feel the need to spout their shit at funerals. I just buried my friend and you're seizing the moment to preach your bullshit? GO FUCK YOURSELF!!!!!!!!

I can barely stand these pompus asswipes on a normal day.
The Press - 2006/03/15

The Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) is urgently pushing for new hang-gliding industry standards after learning a hang-gliding pilot who suffered serious injuries in a crash three weeks ago had not clipped himself on to the glider.

Extreme Air tandem gliding pilot James (Jim) Rooney safely clipped his passenger into the glider before departing from the Coronet Peak launch site, near Queenstown, CAA sports and recreation manager Rex Kenny said yesterday.

However, he took off without attaching himself.

In a video, he was seen to hold on to the glider for about fifty meters before hitting power lines.

Rooney and the passenger fell about fifteen meters to the ground.
...Intellect Rooney?

Ya know where self-taught AT pilots have a fair advantage? They don't have as hard a time unlearning all the total crap total assholes such as yourself are always cramming down our throats.
Therefore, it is considered a rating, which is awarded by an instructor or administrator, rather than a special skill [SOP 12-02.11] that is just observed and received from an observer [SOP 12-05.04].
Really?
The United States Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association, Inc. - 2013/02/07
Standard Operating Procedure
12. Rating System
02. Pilot Proficiency System
-A. Special Skills attainable by Novice
-D. Aerotow

The aerotow skill is a demonstration of the pilot's ability to launch and tow successfully and safely behind a flying tow vehicle. This special skill is available to Novice and above rated pilots...
So maybe you could write another Higher Education article explaining to us why, five days after the Zack Marzec fatality, AT was demoted back to Special Skill status - where it remains - and, while identified as being "available to Novice and above rated pilots" it's not included in the "Special Skills attainable by Novice" category.

Assholes.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TUGS/message/1149
[TUGS] aerotow instruction was Re: Tug Rates
Tracy Tillman - 2011/02/10 20:08:32 UTC

Hey Tad.

Anybody who is truly a good pilot, in any form of aviation, knows that the knowledge, skills, and judgement you have in your head, learned from thorough instruction from a good instructor with a good curriculum, are the best pieces of equipment you can fly with. Good equipment is important, the best equipment is a well-trained brain.
Higher EDUCATION - 2011/07
HOW TO GET THE USHPA AEROTOW RATING

by Drs. Lisa Colletti & Tracy Tillman

LISA: Aerotowing is one of the most advanced and difficult skills in which to become proficient in hang gliding, and, like being a tug pilot or a tandem instructor, the AT pilot bears some responsibility for the safety of another person (the tug pilot) while being towed. As such, aerotowing is something that needs to be learned from a good aerotow instructor or administrator, rather than being self-taught. Therefore, it is considered a rating, which is awarded by an instructor or administrator, rather than a special skill [SOP 12-02.11] that is just observed and received from an observer [SOP 12-05.04].

TRACY: You mentioned that the AT rating is one of the most advanced and difficult skills to achieve in hang gliding. Why is that?

LISA: Unlike surface towing skills, which are classified as special skills, much more is happening with aerotowing. First, compared to stationary or winch towing, the tow line is quite short, meaning that getting out of the "cone of safety" and locking out can happen much quicker with aerotowing. Getting out of position on tow is most likely to happen at launch, due to prop wash and mechanical wind turbulence, and is most dangerous because of being near the ground. Getting out of position can also cause the tug pilot to lose control, which, likewise, is most dangerous for the tug pilot near the ground. Second, ground-based tow systems are either not in-motion, or travel in a straight line at a relatively consistent speed. With aerotowing, the tug usually does not fly in a straight line for the entire tow--rather, the tug must often do at least a 180-degree turn to keep a novice hang glider pilot within gliding distance of the airfield after release and will often do 360s in thermals with more advanced pilots. Third, the tug has variations in airspeed, horizontal position, and vertical position, along with additional twisting motions in pitch, roll, and yaw. Because of the various axes of motion of the tug are combined with the axes of motion of the hang glider, much more is going on for the AT hang glider pilot relative to free flight or other types of towing. To deal with all of this, an AT pilot must learn to have very quick, proper, and precise skills--but those help to make their free-flight skills better and more precise, too.
Hey Trisa....
Towing Aloft - 1998/01

Unfortunately, releases are not 100% reliable.
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=16384
Tow Release Malfunction
Jim Rooney - 2010/03/26 20:54:43 UTC

Bent pin releases are indeed very very reliable. But 100%? Nope. It's exceptionally rare, but they jam. All mechanical things do.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22660
What can be learned from this "scooter" towing accident?
Jim Rooney - 2011/02/06 18:35:13 UTC

The minute someone starts telling me about their "perfect"system, I start walking away.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
Jim Rooney - 2011/08/28 10:40:24 UTC

You're 100% onto it... relying on the skill of the pilot is a numbers game that you'll lose at some point.

Is a weaklink going to save your ass? Who knows?
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks
Jim Rooney - 2013/03/05 19:42:58 UTC

My god my head hurts.

Wow...
So you know what happened then?
OMG... thank you for your expert accident analysis. You better fly down to FL and let them know. I'm sure they'll be very thankful to have such a crack expert mind on the case analyzing an accident that you know nothing about. Far better data than the people that were actually there. In short... get fucked.
What's the point?

Aerotowing is more dangerous and demands more training, judgment, skill than anything else in hang gliding. It's so dangerous and demanding that...

- It's the only solo signoff in the sport that mandates tandem training.* (* Unless the aerotow operation at which you're being qualified doesn't sell tandem training. Then you get the same signoff without tandem training.)

- Numerous aerotow operators across the county had to make quite literally hundreds of thousands of tows to work out the ideal fishing line for construction of the ideal aerotow weak link and mandate that everyone and his dog use it - even to the point of making heavier gliders so safe that they fly in violation of FAA aerotow safety regulations.

- Only towing equipment with huge track records can be flown - no one DARES trying to improve anything.

And yet...

- Our skills will inevitably fail us.

- Our releases will inevitably malfunction because they're mechanical things. And other people's "perfect systems" are even MORE dangerous - so dangerous that we must start walking away whenever anyone tries to talk about them.

- The most highly developed weak link ever used in the history of towed aviation may not break when it's supposed to.

- When one of the best trained brains in the country, a top gun pro toad, flatlines after his weak link broke at the worst possible time, when his glider was climbing hard in a near stall situation, later or earlier than it was supposed to, and dumps him into a tumble back onto the runway of the operation that had just spent twenty years perfecting aerotowing, nobody who's anybody has any fucking idea what went wrong - and nobody who isn't anybody is permitted to speculate.

Total crap shoot. Trying to teach people how to aerotow safely and competently is like trying to teach people the most reliable strategies for picking lottery numbers. Deaths are INEVITABLE no matter WHAT we do. And if we DID work on coming up with a strategy...

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/skysailingtowing/message/7067
AT SOPs - proposed revisions
Subj: Re: [Tow] AT SOPs - proposed revisions
Date: 2009/05/10 02:08:52 UTC
From: cloud9sa@aol.com
To: skysailingtowing@yahoogroups.com
cc: GreggLudwig@aol.com, lisa@lisatateglass.com

Additionally, if you want to really present a convincing argument, you should also: (a) get other experts to co-sign your letter, such as those who have some or most of the aerotowing-related credentials listed above, who have been doing this for many years with many students, and who support your argument; and (b) present reliable data based on valid research showing that there is a significant difference in safety with the changes that you recommend. Supportive comments from aerotow experts along with convincing data can make a difference. Otherwise, it may seem as if your perception of "the sky is falling" may not be shared by most others who have a wealth of experience and who are deeply involved in aerotowing in the US.
...to prevent the sky from falling...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=27396
Scooter tow faillure... or Never Land On Your Face
Mitch Shipley - 2012/10/22 19:04:16 UTC

We engage in a sport that has risk and that is part of the attraction.
...we'd just be reducing the attraction to an already dying sport.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6029
Highland sept 28-29
Mark Cavanaugh - 2013/09/30 04:00:33 UTC

I figured I would give Highland a try today because the forecasts were calling for lighter winds on Sunday... But the 'casts were bogus once again! Winds were 8-13+ on the ground instead of the max-at-5 they'd been calling for the night before, major sigh.

I decided to wait the winds out, based on Jim Messina's report of how things had developed on Saturday. As luck would have it, there _was_ a window in which we got some lighter cycles, maybe 3-ish to 4:30-ish. That's not to say that it was easy... In fact, the first couple hundred of my tow ranks up there among rowdiest/weirdest that I've had at Highland. Luckily for us, towmaster-extraordinaire Jim Rooney was flying the tug, and he really made a huge difference today, lemme tell ya!
The man is a GOD! How UNBELIEVABLY lucky you are to have him. Head and shoulders above Chad Elchin and Keavy Nenninger. And, for that matter, Mark Knight. Any thoughts on the last flights of the latter two? Doesn't seem to have been much in the way of discussion about what went wrong.
After my slack towline, pop up, above the tug, below the tug, suck it in, push-out and climb, sheesh-what-a-tow, trip up to 2500... I was determined not to sled-out because I didn't want to go through *that* again!
REALLY?

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
Jim Rooney - 2011/08/28 19:39:17 UTC

Weak links break for all kinds of reasons.
Some obvious, some not.

The general consensus is the age old adage... "err on the side of caution".

The frustration of a weaklink break is just that, frustration.
And it can be very frustrating for sure. Especially on a good day, which they tend to be. It seems to be a Murphy favorite. You'll be in a long tug line on a stellar day just itching to fly. The stars are all lining up when *bam*, out of nowhere your trip to happy XC land goes up in a flash. Now you've got to hike it all the way back to the back of the line and wait as the "perfect" window drifts on by.

I get it.
It can be a pisser.

But the "other side"... the not cautions one... is not one of frustration, it's one of very real danger.
Better to be frustrated than in a hospital, or worse.
No exaggeration... this is the fire that the "other side" is made of. Best not to play with it.
Isn't it a lot more fun and safer for everyone involved...

http://ozreport.com/13.238
Adam Parer on his tuck and tumble
Adam Parer - 2009/11/25

Due to the rough conditions weak links were breaking just about every other tow and the two tugs worked hard to eventually get everyone off the ground successfully.
...when their 130 pound Greenspot Pilots In Command dump them a time or two before they make it to workable altitudes and force emergency landings and relights?
*smile*
Suck my dick, Mark.
Finally connected with the monster that we were flirting with on the way up, and took it from 1800 AGL to 4000 AGL. ("phew, I can land now, and NOT fly again!")
Suck my dick, Mark.
Found a second thermal upwind, taking that one from 2400 AGL to 3500. That was about it for me, though I did get to chase after a fully-mature bald eagle at the east end of the runway...
Yes. The EAST...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6279
Close call on tow!
Ward Odenwald - 2014/05/06 23:01:10 UTC

When Jim gave me the rope we were approaching the south end of the runway with no more than two to four hundred feet of altitude.
...end of the runway.
...that was extremely cool!!! Landed in formation after Jim Messina, circling over the lima-bean field and then zooming in for a landing to the east, landing just past the bonfire pit and within a few feet of my vehicle. Very fun!!!!
Fuck you guys.
Good turnout today: Rich E, Felix, Cragin, John Middleton, Greg Sessa, Knut, Jim Messina, Walt Melo, Joe Gregor, and at least three others whom I've probably met multiple times before (brain cells ain't what they used to be, sigh).
They never were, Mark. Total shit in the way of character as well.
Cragin Shelton - 2013/09/30 10:46:44 UTC
Franconia, Virginia

Been waaaay too long since I have been high in the sky, so I joined the Sunday crowd at Highland.
You've been breathing waaaay too long, motherfucker. Wish you'd stopped about twenty years ago.
My last training hill days were last December...
Did you perfect your flare timing?
...and my last high flights were June of '12, so I knew I had cobwebs and rust to shake off.
How 'bout a nice Rooney Link induced whipstall from a hundred feet?
Early launches were all quite rowdy during the first few hundred feet of tow, so I waited until after 3:00 to fly.
So? You've got the best possible...
Dr. Trisa Tilletti - 2012/06

Hopefully, someone will develop methods and technology that work better than what we are using as standard practice today. Like the methods and technology used today, it is unlikely that the new technology will be dictated onto us as a de jure standard. Rather, to become a de facto standard, that new technology will need to be made available in the marketplace, proven in the real world, and then embraced by our sport.
...equipment on the planet, right? Stuff that's been refined with safety as an absolute priority by the top minds in the business...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=21377
AT several Questions
Davis Straub - 2011/04/05 14:00:25 UTC

The flight park procedures here at Quest Air are the result of years of evolutionary pressures and experience that provide the focus on safety.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24534
It's a wrap
Paul Tjaden - 2011/07/30 15:33:54 UTC

Quest Air has been involved in perfecting aerotowing for nearly twenty years.
...for a period of over twenty years...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3391
More on Zapata and weak link
Paul Tjaden - 2008/07/22 04:32:22 UTC

I have never had a lockout situation happen so quickly and dramatically and had no chance to release as I have always thought I could do.
Right? If there were anything better...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec
Jim Rooney - 2013/02/12 18:00:27 UTC

I just buried my friend and you want me to have a nice little discussion about pure speculation about his accident so that some dude that's got a pet project wants to push his theories?

Deltaman loves his mouth release.
BFD

I get tired as hell "refuting" all these mouth release and "strong link" arguments. Dig through the forums if you want that. I've been doing it for years but unfortunately the peddlers are religious in their beliefs so they find justification any way they can to "prove" their stuff. This is known as "Confirmation Bias"... seeking data to support your theory... it's back-asswards. Guess what? The shit doesn't work. If it did, we'd be using it everywhere. But it doesn't stand the test of reality.
...we'd all be using it everywhere. Right? So what's the big fucking deal about a little rowdy air for the first few hundred feet? Besides, you're using a Rooney Link, right? A Rooney Link, if you fail to maintain the correct tow position (centered, with the wheels of the tug on the horizon)...

http://www.wallaby.com/aerotow_primer.php
Aerotow Primer for Experienced Pilots
The Wallaby Ranch Aerotowing Primer for Experienced Pilots - 2014/05/21

If you fail to maintain the correct tow position (centered, with the wheels of the tug on the horizon), the weak link will break before you can get into too much trouble.
...will break before you can get into too much trouble.
That didn't help; had one of my toughest tows, ever.
But, obviously, you were able to maintain the correct tow position (centered, with the wheels of the tug on the horizon) the whole time.
Thanks to Jim Rooney for most skillful tug management, avoiding either one of us releasing the rope at the middle of the field.
- Unbelievably gifted individual. How very odd that with his keen intellect and all that skill and expertise he was as baffled about the cause of death of his friend at Quest as the rest of us.

- So why would there have been any possibility of you being left with the rope? You can blow off tow just as quickly, easily, effectively as the Dragonfly...

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7509/15659143120_a9aae8f7bd_o.jpg
Image

...can blow you off tow, right?

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
Cragin Shelton - 2011/09/03 23:57:33 UTC

Nice Reference Citation
Manned Kiting
The Basic Handbook of Tow Launched Hang Gliding
Daniel F. Poynter
1974

"The greatest dangers are a rope break or a premature release." - Richard Johnson
Do you REALLY think that there has been no progress in knowledge about the practical applied physics and engineering of hang gliding in 37 years? OR that an early, 3+ decade old, information book written by a non-pilot is a solid reference when you have multiple high experience current instructors involved in the discussion?
Forty years ago you could do it...
Manned Kiting
The Basic Handbook of Tow Launched Hang Gliding
Daniel F. Poynter
1974

"Never take your hands off the bar." - Tom Peghiny
Right? And surely things haven't been evolving BACKWARDS since then.
From there it went well, and then became a solid sled. I did have a safe, clean landing, although a longer final than planned, using every bit of the field.
Bummer you didn't use every bit of the field plus some powerlines.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6029
Highland sept 28-29
Felix Cantesanu - 2013/09/30 15:31:54 UTC

Had to attach some pictures from yesterday's flight.

Notice the tug's position in the first one!
Image

What? Oh yeah. At first I was distracted by the position of your spreader and wondering what the fuck you think its function is supposed to be and who the fuck signed you off on your ratings.
Felix Cantesanu - 92561 - H3 - 2012/10/08 - Adam Elchin, Highland Aerosports - AT FL TUR
Yeah. Tug's wheels not exactly on the horizon are they? Have you considered going up to Cloud 9 and getting some tandem Cone of Safety training with Dr. Trisa Tilletti and/or down to Wallaby to see what kind of weak link you should be using to keep you from getting into too much trouble?
The tug fell out of the thermal I was climbing like crazy in. Rattiest tow for me yet, and I've had some interesting ones before...
The weak link you're using is obviously WAY too heavy. Only when Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney is visiting you in the hospital will you be able to begin to hear what he's been trying to tell you all along.
Roger Irby - 2013/10/02 11:44:37 UTC
North Carolina

Wow Felix! How you and Jim managed to not break the weak link from that position is amazing.
- No...

33-030202
Image
2-1306
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7258/13851486814_77efdf1004_o.png
Image

...shit. I always find it amazing how ANYBODY *EVER* makes it up to release altitude in ANY conditions on one of those pieces of crap you total fucking morons teach and force everybody to fly with.

- Why would ANYONE not want...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3600
Weak link question
Jim Rooney - 2008/11/22 22:31:35 UTC

No one is actually scared to fly with a standard weaklink. They may say they are, but deep down inside, they're not.
...a Rooney Link to break?

- He wasn't locked out, he hadn't lost control of the tow, he was in the process of riding out the thermal and getting back into position... Why is there anyone stupid enough to be using some piece of shit...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=26870
weak links
michael170 - 2012/08/17 17:01:40 UTC

Zack, let me see if I understand your logic.

You had a thing and it broke needlessly.
You didn't want the thing to break needlessly.
You replaced the thing with a stronger thing.
Now the thing doesn't break needlessly.
...that would break under those circumstances?
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Tad Eareckson
Posts: 9161
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Re: instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6029
Highland sept 28-29
Danny Brotto - 2013/10/02 22:09:10 UTC

How Jim managed to maintain control of the tug is what is amazing.
Yeah Danny. He probably had to make adjustments with the stick and maybe rudder pedals for a few seconds to keep the Dragonfly level and steady until the glider followed him out the other side of the thermal. Certainly not something that just ANYBODY could be expected to do!
Never been that far over a tug in a hang glider so I've got to wonder what it looked like and felt like from the tug pilot's perspective.
It would've been sheer terror for any of us weekend warrior muppets. But for Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney it's all in a day's work. Probably had forgotten all about it by the time he landed. It's a dirty job but...
Being so high on tow lifts the tug's tail and makes things interesting up front I'm sure.
Oh, I certainly am too! But for all the crap we hear from those front end pansies about the risks to which they selflessly expose themselves solely for our benefit can anyone cite one single report of a tug getting nosed down for a single second by a high glider?
I can tell you if I would be anywhere near that high on tow while in my sailplane, the tug pilot would have been in a world of hurt.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15716
weak links
Tad Eareckson - 2009/04/26 20:05:29 UTC

In sailplaning it's ALWAYS the tug that gets killed and NEVER the glider.

In hang gliding it's just the opposite 'cause the Dragonfly's control authority blows the glider's away and the latter can't get out of position fast enough to do any real damage.
See MG here, Danny?

01-0600
Image
02-0708
Image
03-0920
Image
04-1207
Image

He comes off that cart like he's doing a fuckin' truck tow and keeps rocketing up after that frame. He's being pulled by a trike which has shit in the way of power, weight, and control authority in relation to the 914 Dragonfly.

05-1318
Image
06-1500
Image
07-1522
Image
08-1619
Image
09-1712
Image
10-1722
Image
11-1814
Image
12-1915
Image

And the fuckin' trike is never the least bit fazed - doesn't look like he's even aware that anything unusual is going on behind him. (Notice that he's not fixing whatever's going on back there by giving him the rope. Also notice that MG isn't fixing what's going on there by giving the tug the rope - undoubtedly because he's using Industry Standard crap for a release that everyone and his dog knows is one hundred percent useless in any emergency situation.) And what the hell... This glider is ALSO using a weak link which, if he fails to maintain the correct tow position (centered, with the wheels of the tug on the horizon), will break before he can get into too much trouble.
More likely he would have dumped me well before then.
You wouldn't have dumped YOURSELF if you could see you were causing a significant problem for a tug?
Did Jim have anything to say after that?
Something very keenly intellectual, no doubt. The kind of thing that...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks
Jim Rooney - 2013/03/03 19:37:19 UTC

It saddens me to know that the rantings of the fanatic fringe mask the few people who are actually working on things. The fanaticism makes it extremely hard to have a conversation about these things as they always degrade into arguments. So I save the actual conversations for when I'm talking with people in person.

A fun saying that I picked up... Some people listen with the intent of understanding. Others with the intent of responding.
I like that.

For fun... if you're not seeing what I mean... try having a conversation here about wheels.
...he reserves for actual conversations for when he's talking with people in person. He's really only willing to write down every thought he's ever had in his life when he's...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=25536
Whoops! Snapped another tip wand :-O
NMERider - 2012/03/14 15:17:14 UTC

His one-technique-fits-all attitude espoused on the Oz Report Forum has become tiresome to read. It does not work in the fucked-up world of XC landings and weary pilots.
Christopher LeFay - 2012/03/15 05:57:43 UTC

January's canonization of Rooney as the Patron Saint of Landing was maddening. He offered just what people wanted to hear: there is an ultimate, definitive answer to your landing problems, presented with absolute authority. Judgment problems? His answer is to remove judgment from the process - doggedly stripping out critical differences in gliders, loading, pilot, and conditions. This was just what people wanted - to be told a simple answer. In thanks, they deified him, carving his every utterance in Wiki-stone.
...solving everybody's foot landing problems for them.
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