instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24534
It's a wrap

Davis Straub - 2011/07/29 15:16:29 UTC

Long weaklinks and wrapping up the line on your carabineer (Quest Air, Groveland, Florida)

Lauren Tjaden (tjadenhors) - 2011/07/29
Quest Air

I was flying a tandem this morning, and when I released (from the three point bridle) the line briefly released and then wrapped around the 'biner that we tow from. The sharp, strong pull almost immediately broke the weak link on the tug plane, which of course left me with the rope. I released the bridle from my shoulders (with the barrel release) and dropped the rope over the field without incident.

When I retrieved the rope and bridle after the flight, I was shocked at how profoundly the line had wrapped around the 'biner. I have heard about the line being able to wrap, but in thousands of aerotows I have never experienced it. I thought readers might be interested to see actually happens.

Secondly, although the weak link wasn't tremendously large, in retrospect it could have been smaller. Apparently the longer the weak link the greater its propensity to wrap. I also included a photo showing the size of the weak link. (I removed it from the 'biner after taking the photos.) Just a reminder for folks to keep their weak links on the stingy side.

Deltaman - 2011/07/29 22:06:51 UTC

Thanks Lauren for your report and pictures!

The measure of the outer part of weak link is inches or cm?
2.5 inches = 6.35 cm still too much!

Please tell me what was your shoulders installation? You hadn't weaklink there?

At the bottom end of the V-bridle I have got a weak link (bridle link) 1.2 times stronger than the one on the primary release. So when there is a wrap after top release, it blows immediately. And if it don't I will release with very little effort by a straight pin barrel release (4.5kg for a 90kg direct load (180kg with a bridle)). (Thanks Tad).

I don't want the line with me (a French pilot burned a field after catching a powerline). Easy to manage with good weak link values. 1 on the primary < 2 on the pilot side < 3 on the tug side. What was the value on the tug side?

What was your barrel. I tested my old one (curved pin): at 100 kg the curved pin bends and break! So in your case without weak link on pilot side, you had half of the towline tension on this barrel. The maximum tension you can have on this release is half of the tug weak link. A curved pin barrel is three times harder to release than with a straight one (Tad release). Take care.

Viktor Moroz - 2011/07/29 22:31:31 UTC

I'd like to advise you:

1. Change the carabiner with a metal ring of suitable size (welded and polished). Like an option.
2. Remove weaklink from the bridle and tie it between a tow line and a metal ring ('biner).

Have a safe flights,
Viktor

Steve Davy - 2011/07/30 03:15:36 UTC

"Weak links are made as short as possible - within the confines of release operation demands - in order that they be incapable of contributing to a wrap."

I offer $25 to the first person that can tell me who wrote that.

Deltaman - 2011/07/30 06:19:30 UTC

Too easy ! His name is on my first post. Send me 25 !

And this one ?

Always use an appropriate weak link with a finished length of 1.5 inches or less. Longer weak links are more likely to get tangled on the tow ring upon release.

Davis Straub - 2011/07/30 15:03:35 UTC

There is a reason for using these carabineers. I think that you can figure it out.

Paul Tjaden - 2011/07/30 15:33:54 UTC

Quest Air has been involved in perfecting aerotowing for nearly twenty years and I can say that the steel ring, polished or not, has a greater tendency to wrap than the small aluminum carabiners. There are other obvious reasons a heavy steel ring is not a great idea swinging around at the end of a 250 foot line.

On the chest line we normally run a double weak link on one end just as we do with the primary. This is probably not the optimum situation and can and does lead to the weak link on the Dragonfly tow bridle breaking before that one will break. Having the rope is not a big problem if you have altitude but can be an issue down low. Although it is easy to get rid of with the chest barrel release, perhaps we will reduce the strength of the chest weak link to one loop. It's always a balancing act. It's no fun having an inadvertent low weak link break when you are low so we don't want this weak link too weak.

Paul Tjaden - 2011/07/30 15:37:48 UTC

Just re-read Viktor's post. Placing the weak link between the tow rope and the carabiner has merit but it will wear out very quickly. Seems it might need to be changed every flight?

Sam Kellner - 2011/07/30 17:06:39 UTC

These are great photos, but as usual, it is difficult to see all the details from the pictures. If my observations are incorrect, I will gladly stand corrected.

By looking at these shots, it appears the way the weak link was tied, not a grapevine, might be a contributing factor.

The weak link wrapped up around the biner, then the loop hooked the large wl knot, much like a key hole type fastener, like on many haul-backs and nose wires.

What happened to the grapevine knot?

You guys keep up the good work at QuestAir.

Sam,
Southwest Texas Hang Gliders

Viktor Moroz - 2011/07/30 19:22:42 UTC

Placing the weak link between the tow rope and the carabiner has merit but it will wear out very quickly. Seems it might need to be changed every flight?

Yes, of course. But seems to me it's not an issue when we are talking about safety. Weaklink rope is a cheap thing.

Usually we perform three aerotows before changing weaklink. Sometimes - four, sometimes only one. It depends of state of a weaklink. Visual inspection and so on. I'm talking about solo flights.

During competitions we change weak link every time.

Of course, I'm agree with you about "balancing act".

Davis Straub - 2011/07/30 19:51:54 UTC

I'm very happy with the way Quest Air (Bobby Bailey designed) does it now.

Steve Davy - 2011/07/30 21:06:04 UTC

Wills Wing. We are even.

http://www.willswing.com/Articles/Article.asp?reqArticleName=AerotowRelease

Kinsley Sykes - 2011/07/30 21:09:42 UTC

I'm very happy with the way Quest Air (Bobby Bailey designed) does it now.

Me too. My secondary weaklink would have blown in milliseconds if the carabeiner wrapped like that, only reason that one did not in this case was the stronger weaklink for the tandem tow.

Good to know that a long one like that can wrap. Thanks Lauren for the photo and notification and glad it worked out OK for you.

Marc Fink - 2011/07/31 13:38:20 UTC

Sam,
Agreed--good eyes, the knot does look like in a strange position--like it's providing a "hitching post" for wraps.

Steve Davy - 2011/07/30 21:06:04 UTC

Could someone please tell me the function of the "weak link"? Thanks.

Davis Straub - 2011/07/31 17:55:25 UTC

To break under load before the glider does.

---

Lauren Tjaden - 2011/07/29 15:16:29 UTC

I was flying a tandem this morning, and when I released (from the three point bridle)...

- It's a two point - pilot and glider.
- You don't release from it. You keep it with you.

The sharp, strong pull almost immediately broke the weak link on the tug plane...

Why?

The United States Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association, Inc.
Standard Operating Procedure
12. Rating System
02. Pilot Proficiency System
10. Hang Gliding Aerotow Ratings
-B. Aero Vehicle Requirements

05. A weak link must be placed at both ends of the tow line. The weak link at the glider end must have a breaking strength that will break before the towline tension exceeds twice the weight of the hang glider pilot and glider combination. The weak link at the tow plane end of the towline should break with a towline tension approximately 100 pounds greater than the glider end.

'Cause it just says "SHOULD"?

But it's not like you are any of the douchebags who "trained" and fly with you have ever actually read - let alone made any half-assed effort to comply with - the SOPs. Right?

I released the bridle from my shoulders (with the barrel release)...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3107
I have a tandem rating!!!

Lauren Tjaden - 2008/03/23 22:20:15 UTC

The barrel release wouldn't work because we had too much pressure on it.

Yeah, those things work just great - as long as there's no PRESSURE on them, don't they?

...and dropped the rope over the field without incident.

You mean without any incident in addition to the two potentially lethal ones you just had, right?

When I retrieved the rope and bridle after the flight, I was shocked at how profoundly the line had wrapped around the 'biner.

Yeah. Me too. Shocked. SHOCKED!

I have heard about the line being able to wrap, but in thousands of aerotows I have never experienced it.

Well then, it was OBVIOUSLY appropriate for you to do absolutely nothing to eliminate the possibility of it happening and continue aping your Ridgely and Quest douchebag friends.

I thought readers might be interested to see actually happens.

Anybody got any photos of Chris McKee in case the readers might be interested to see what actually happens when it never occurs to them that it's a good idea to stow their pod zipper lanyards before they get on launch dollies?

Secondly, although the weak link wasn't tremendously large...

Yeah, just triple the protrusion appropriate for engaging a spinnaker shackle.

...in retrospect...

Great. You've been living, breathing, dreaming aerotow for over nine years and this is "in retrospect".

...it could have been smaller.

Do ya think?

Apparently the longer the weak link the greater its propensity to wrap.

DUDE!!! I'm thinkin' Oslo!

Just a reminder for folks to keep their weak links on the stingy side.

Yeah, everybody listen to Lauren - 'cause she's a tandem instructor and helps run a tow park.

Deltaman - 2011/07/29 22:06:51 UTC

Thanks Lauren for your report and pictures!

Yeah!!!

Please tell me what was your shoulders installation?

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3107
I have a tandem rating!!!

Lauren Tjaden - 2008/03/23 22:20:15 UTC

The barrel release wouldn't work because we had too much pressure on it.

What do you think?

You hadn't weaklink there?

Obviously not one that mattered.

At the bottom end of the V-bridle I have got a weak link (bridle link) 1.2 times stronger than the one on the primary release.

Sorry Antoine, you lost her at:

2.5 inches = 6.35 cm

Never in her life has Lauren dealt with a number other than 2, 3, or 4 in a discussion of weak links - and these only with respect to numbers of strands of 130 pound Greenspot. She has no more clue as to concepts of pounds or Gs than any of the other Made Men and Women in the Flight Park Mafia.

What was the value on the tug side?

Three strands - on the bridle.

I tested my old one (curved pin): at 100 kg the curved pin bends and break!

So? It's standard equipment. Everybody uses it. That's all that's important. (And what's a "kg" anyway?)

A curved pin barrel is three times harder to release than with a straight one (Tad release).

Fuck Tad. When was the last time he even thought about hooking into a glider?

Take care.

For something new and different.

Steve Davy - 2011/07/30 03:15:36 UTC

I offer $25 to the first person that can tell me who wrote that.

I want royalties. Five percent.

Davis Straub - 2011/07/30 15:03:35 UTC

There is a reason for using these carabineers. I think that you can figure it out.

- Yeah. It's to save five seconds every time a glider hooks up.

http://ozreport.com/13.238
Adam Parer on his tuck and tumble

Adam Parer - 2009/11/25

Due to the rough conditions weak links were breaking just about every other tow and the two tugs worked hard to eventually get everyone off the ground successfully.

Which is real important when you're using 130 pound Greenspot in actual thermals 'cause you're having to launch all the gliders twice.

- At least he figured out how to spell them.

Paul Tjaden - 2011/07/30 15:33:54 UTC

Quest Air has been involved in perfecting aerotowing for nearly twenty years...

Yeah, the same way the Jehovah's Witnesses have been involved in perfecting teaching in the biology classroom. So after nearly twenty years of aerotowing Quest has discovered that a weak link three times longer than it should be can tie itself to a tow ring. What surprise do you have in store for the few of us that are still gonna be around in 2030? Bent pin releases don't work under load?

...I can say that the steel ring, polished or not, has a greater tendency to wrap than the small aluminum carabiners.

That's GREAT!

- Any chance we can get a peek at the data you're using to justify that statement?

- So how come you're using a welded steel ring on the FRONT end of the towline to engage the Dragonfly bridle? Shouldn't you be using a small aluminum carabiner there too? What percentage of the time do you get a wrap when you blow the front end?

- So how does that compare to the issue of the two and half inch protrusion weak link?

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=14230
pro tow set-up

Jim Rooney - 2009/11/02 18:58:13 UTC

Oh yeah... an other fun fact for ya... ya know when it's far more likely to happen? During a lockout. When we're doing lockout training, the odds go from 1 in 1,000 to over 50/50.

- How 'bout that four foot long one point bridle you're using in your avatar photo?



Why is it that length? 'Cause that's what everybody else uses and always has?

There are other obvious reasons a heavy steel ring...

- I didn't hear him say anything about a HEAVY steel ring.

- There are rather blindingly obvious and way more critical reasons not to use bent pin barrel releases. But they haven't made a single freaking dent in your thinking, have they?

On the chest line we normally run a double weak link on one end just as we do with the primary.

POUNDS? Just kidding, you don't have any more of a clue than anybody at Quest or the assholes who trained you at Ridgely ever had.

This is probably not the optimum situation and can and does lead to the weak link on the Dragonfly tow bridle breaking before that one will break.

So what's stopping you from beefing up the one at the front and making some pretense of running a safe operation? Oh, right. Nobody does it that way.

Having the rope is not a big problem if you have altitude...

Yeah Paul, NOTHING'S a big problem if you have altitude.

...but can be an issue down low.

Yeah. Talk to Shane Smith about that.

Although it is easy to get rid of with the chest barrel release...

Yeah. Just as long as everything else is going great and you have plenty of time and don't hafta fly the glider.

...perhaps we will reduce the strength of the chest weak link to one loop.

- Without, of course, having a freaking clue as to the breaking strengths of either the single or double loops.
- And of course we can't even consider upping the front end 'cause if it were a good idea people would already be doing it that way.

It's always a balancing act.

Unless you wanna go to the trouble of figuring out what the fuck you're doing and get it right - the way sailplanes do it in REAL aviation.

It's no fun having an inadvertent low weak link break when you are low...

As opposed to having an:
- inadvertent:
-- low weak link break when you are high
-- high weak link break when you are:
--- low
--- high
- advertent:
-- low weak link break when you are:
--- low
--- high
-- high weak link break when you are:
--- low
--- high

...so we don't want this weak link too weak.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11591
Where to put the weaklink - the HGFA rules

Rohan Holtkamp - 2008/04/21

Once again history has shown us that this thread-through system can hook up and the hang glider remains being towed by the keel only, with the bridle well out of reach of even a hook knife. I know of just one pilot to survive this type of hook-up, took him some twelve months to walk again though.

And, of course, without any consideration whatsoever of what can happen if the bottom end of the primary bridle wraps.

Paul Tjaden - 2011/07/30 15:37:48 UTC

Just re-read Viktor's post. Placing the weak link between the tow rope and the carabiner has merit but it will wear out very quickly. Seems it might need to be changed every flight?

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=11497
Aerotow release options?

Adi Branch - 2009/07/02 12:50:02 UTC

I have to chirp in on this.. I know I'm a noob and all that, but Tad seems to be talking sense to me. From what I can gather the US has some quite different (dated?) ways of doing things which it appears are not used here in the UK, and some of the reasons I've heard cited for not using these methods relate directly to accidents in the US.

For instance, the idea of tying your own weak link is absolute nuts to me, as is using a bit of string for the job! Over here it's aluminium only (sailplane style link) and if I turned up with a bit of tied string, I'd be shown the exit road.

Oh. And did you have any thoughts on those piece o' shit bent pin Bailey "releases" Antoine was trying to warn you about? Or did you just automatically go into major head-in-sand mode the instant you saw the name "Tad"?

These are great photos...

FER SURE!!! The people on the International Darwin Awards Committee eat this stuff up. And it's not like people wanna look at photos of how NOT to do things unbelievably stupidly.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8305428629/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/sets/72057594141352219/detail

By looking at these shots, it appears the way the weak link was tied, not a grapevine, might be a contributing factor.

What part of:

Weak links are made as short as possible - within the confines of release operation demands - in order that they be incapable of contributing to a wrap.

are you having the MOST trouble understanding?

You guys keep up the good work at QuestAir.

Funny, MY concept of "good work" is that you only screw ONE pooch in the course of an ordinary tow seriously enough to get you and your passenger killed in less benign circumstances. Must be a Southwest Texas thing.

Viktor Moroz - 2011/07/30 19:22:42 UTC

During competitions we change weak link every time.

http://www.tost.de/

Davis Straub - 2011/07/30 19:51:54 UTC

I'm very happy with the way Quest Air (Bobby Bailey designed) does it now.

Of course you are Davis. Whenever someone leaves launch in a chopper or body bag the field of competition gets a little narrower for you.

Steve Davy - 2011/07/30 21:06:04 UTC

http://www.willswing.com/Articles/Article.asp?reqArticleName=AerotowRelease

Where they tell you:

- to use "an appropriate weak link" without giving you the slightest hint what an appropriate weak link is;

- where to slap on some piece o' shit Quest or Lookout release 'cause they won't just build them into their goddam gliders like sane people would do.

- and to "Carry a hook knife when towing." so you can pretend that'll actually do you some good when the commercial junk - that Wills Wing knows from just looking at it will fail - fails.

Kinsley Sykes - 2011/07/30 21:09:42 UTC

I'm very happy with the way Quest Air (Bobby Bailey designed) does it now.

Me too.

Yeah Kinsley, who isn't? Certainly not anyone who ever again wants a chance of flying at a US operation.

My secondary weaklink would have blown in milliseconds if the carabeiner wrapped like that...

Hang Gliding - 1997/02
Tad Eareckson

To further address the danger of a primary release failure (bridle wrap), a secondary weak link, of strength somewhere between significantly stronger than and double that of the primary, should be installed at the other end of the primary bridle.

You're welcome.

Good to know that a long one like that can wrap. Thanks Lauren for the photo and notification and glad it worked out OK for you.

Yeah. Now let's get some good photos of cars folded in half around telephone poles with dead teenagers in them so we know what can happen when people get drunk and try to take forty mile per hour curves at eighty on rainy nights.

Any chance you wanna see how to do things RIGHT instead?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8306258400/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/sets/72057594141352219/detail

Just kidding, don't bother.

Marc Fink - 2011/07/31 13:38:20 UTC

Agreed--good eyes, the knot does look like in a strange position--like it's providing a "hitching post" for wraps.

What part of:

Weak links are made as short as possible - within the confines of release operation demands - in order that they be incapable of contributing to a wrap.

do you not understand? (Rhetorical question. You never made it past the second word.)

Steve Davy - 2011/07/31 16:49:09 UTC

Could someone please tell me the function of the "weak link"? Thanks.

Thank YOU! You just set that stupid sonuvabitch up for me REALLY WELL.

Davis Straub - 2011/07/31 17:55:25 UTC

To break under load before the glider does.

http://ozreport.com/12.081
Weaklinks - the HGFA rules

Davis Straub - 2008/04/22 14:47:00 UTC

From section 3.4 of the 1999 Hang Gliding Federation of Australia Towing Manual:

Recommended breaking load of a weak link is 1g. - i.e. the combined weight of pilot, harness and glider (dependent on pilot weight - usually approximately 90 to 100 kg for solo operations; or approximately 175 kg for tandem operations).

Here is the requirement from the 2007 Worlds local rules (which I wrote) for weaklinks:

Pilots must use weaklinks provided by the meet organizers and in a manner approved by the meet organizers. All weaklinks will be checked and use of inappropriate weaklinks will require the pilot to go to the end of the launch line to change the weaklink.

Weaklinks will consist of a single loop of Cortland 130 lb Greenspot braided Dacron Tolling line and should be placed at one end of a shoulder bridle.

At the 2008 Forbes Flatlands Greenspot for the first time was used as the standard weaklink material (thanks in large part to the efforts of Bobby Bailey). We applaud these efforts to improve the safety of aerotowing by using a better weaklink material.

So what you're saying (dickhead) is that anything on any solo glider heftier than "a single loop of Cortland 130 lb Greenspot braided Dacron Tolling line" on ONE end of a shoulder bridle (ferchrisake don't use them on BOTH ends of the bridle - that means you won't blow tow until you hit twice the tension - or you'll blow off at half (I can never remember which)) will hold until a cross spar buckles.

Thank you SO much for clarifying that.

And many thanks to you to Bobby - for all you've done improve the safety of aerotowing by using a better weaklink material.

(Better than what I've never heard but whatever it was we sure must've been breaking up a lot of gliders with it.)

And MANY extra thanks for putting that breakaway tow mast on the Dragonfly to help keep us glider drivers even safer - whether we want to be or not.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24546
Serious accident at SOGA

Andrew Stakhov - 2011/07/31 11:37:03 UTC

Yesterday we had our tug crash shortly after takeoff up here at SOGA ontario. From what I understand the plane stalled shortly after takeoff and had a very rough landing. Pilot peter was airlifted out. Tug looks like writeoff. Lets hope our friend recovers ok.

Tug was a dragonfly. Glider was a u2 I believe - flexwing for sure. We took the tug apart this morning its pretty badly damaged. Probably a writeoff. From what I gathered he stalled at about 80ft and came down hard - pilot cage was all mangled when I saw it. pilot had serious injuries but not critical. Very un fortunate

Lessee...

2011/07/15 - Maryland's lower Western Shore; James Michael Dayton dead, Nicholas John Mirales critical after sailplane loses tow on takeoff.
2011/07/23 - Maryland's Eastern Shore; Keavy Ruth Nenninger dead after releasing glider on takeoff and stalling and totaling Dragonfly.
2011/07/30 - Southern Ontario; Peter seriously injured, Dragonfly totaled after stall on takeoff with glider.

Can't wait to see what happens NEXT weekend!

Bille Floyd - 2011/07/31 21:39:18 UTC

So -- what impact dos the glider that's being towed have on
the stall characteristics of the tow plain ?
Does that change if its a Rag or Rigid wing, being towed ?

I guess --Jim Rooney-- is the person i Should be asking this question of.

Oh fer sure. He da MAN! He was trained at the same place Keavy was and is revered as a God by Lauren and the rest of the Quest Cult.

And if you ever need anyone to talk to about how to remember to hook into your glider before taking off, I can't recommend ANYONE with whom you could connect and empathize more.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24534
It's a wrap

Steve Davy - 2011/07/31 23:57:09 UTC

Thanks Davis.

It seems odd to me that the weak link attached to the tow plane broke before the one attached to the glider.

I checked on the USHPA web site and it says--

4. A weak link must be placed at both ends of the tow line. The weak link at the glider end must have a breaking strength that will break before the towline tension exceeds twice the weight of the hang glider pilot and glider combination. The weak link at the tow plane end of the towline should break with a towline tension approximately 100 lbs. greater than the glider end.

http://www.ushpa.aero/documents/sop/sop-12-02.pdf

Lauren Tjaden - 2011/08/01 02:01:06 UTC

In general, the weak link on the glider end will break before the one on the plane. However, my glider's main weak link was wrapped in a huge bunch around the 'biner, therefore it did not break. I also had a secondary weak link on my shoulder (which does not take as much force), but the plane's link broke first. Really, it was just half a second (or less) until the break, and the backups worked as they should.

I just thought it was very interesting the way the line wrapped and thought it was a good reminder for all pilots who aerotow to keep their weak links short.

Also, a tandem weak link is doubled, due to the much greater tow forces on it due to its much greater weight. Technically the tow plane's weak link will break sooner than the tandem's will. Of course what happens in reality is not exactly what happens in principle -- though it WAS what happened in this case.

Had the plane's weak link not broken, I would have been left towing from my shoulders, which would have been okay. I could have released from my barrel release on my shoulders or Paul could have given me the rope. Had all else failed, I could have used my hook knife.

For whomever asked about the function of a weak link, it is to release the glider and plane from each other when the tow forces become greater than desirable -- whether that is due to a lockout or a malfunction of equipment or whatever. This can save a glider, a tow pilot, or more often, a hang glider pilot who does not get off of tow when he or she gets too far out of whack.

I rarely break weak links -- in fact, I believe the last one was some two years ago, and I have never broken one on a tandem (probably because I am light and also because I change them whenever they show any signs of wear). They are a good thing to have, though!!

---

Steve Davy - 2011/07/31 23:57:09 UTC

Thanks Davis.

Yes indeed! He has no freakin' clue as to just how bad that quote is gonna come back to haunt him when contrasted with all the moronic crap he's written about weak links over the past decade or so.

It seems odd to me that the weak link attached to the tow plane broke before the one attached to the glider.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3648
Oh no! more on weak links

Carlos Weill - 2008/11/30 19:24:09 UTC

I heard a snap, and then just like the sound of a WWII plane just shut down hurdling to the ground, only the ball of fire was missing. The tug weak link broke off at 1000ft, in less than a second the glider was at 500ft.

Don't get out much, do ya? And that's a little solo guy flying a single loop of 130 on the end of a two point bridle.

I checked on the USHPA web site and it says...

Yeah. Like anybody cares about anything in the regulations when we have Rooney and airparks which have been perfecting aerotowing for decades.

http://www.ushpa.aero/documents/sop/sop-12-02.pdf

4. A weak link must be placed at both ends of the tow line. The weak link at the glider end must have a breaking strength that will break before the towline tension exceeds twice the weight of the hang glider pilot and glider combination. The weak link at the tow plane end of the towline should break with a towline tension approximately 100lbs. greater than the glider end.

Lauren Tjaden - 2011/08/01 02:01:06 UTC

In general, the weak link on the glider end will break before the one on the plane.

Whoa! Good point. We should probably change the SOPs to read:

In general, the weak link on the glider end should break before the one on the plane.

(The glider, of course, not being a plane.)

However, my glider's main weak link was wrapped in a huge bunch around the 'biner, therefore it did not break.

Yeah, who coulda seen something like that coming? But wait a minute... Didn't I read somewhere that...

A weak link MUST be placed at BOTH ENDS of the TOW LINE.

So if you could, like, either FOLLOW SIMPLE INSTRUCTIONS or at least not fuck things up when you decide to get creative...

I also had a secondary weak link on my shoulder (which does not take as much force)...

Really? Why not? How much less? Can you explain why?

Just kidding, Lauren. I'd NEVER ask you to use any numbers other than 2, 3, or 4 or manipulate them in any manner.

- So a double loop of 130 pound Greenspot blows at around 200 on the end of a two point bridle and hits that number when the towline tension is 348.

- And the same double loop on a secondary bridle - which has zilch in the way of apex angle - blows at 400.

...but the plane's link broke first.

Why? If you had been using the recommended spread of a hundred pounds to begin with your secondary weak link would've blown 48 pounds before the tug's.

Really, it was just half a second (or less) until the break...

GREAT! I'd sure hate to hafta wait three or four seconds before getting 250 feet of Spectra draped over my basetube.

...and the backups worked as they should.

BULLSHIT. If things had worked as they SHOULD the fuckin' tug would've left with the fuckin' towline - at considerably less risk to you and your vict-, sorry, passenger.

I just thought it was very interesting the way the line wrapped...

FER SURE! I just got an idea for a contest! Give everybody weak links that protrude a foot from the bridle and see who can get the most interesting wrap! And if you wanna make things REALLY interesting limit the release altitude to a hundred feet.

...and thought it was a good reminder for all pilots who aerotow to keep their weak links short.

If it takes you flight park professionals twenty years of perfecting aerotowing to start getting this concept how long do you think it's gonna take to penetrate the skull of some ordinary douchebag like Marc Fink or Chris McKee?

Also, a tandem weak link is doubled, due to the much greater tow forces on it due to its much greater weight.

Really? How much much greater tow forces? Have you have you ever measured and compared solo and tandem tow tensions?

Towing Aloft - 1998/01

One commercial aerotow operation* uses the same weak link** for tandem towing as they use for solo with very good results and a wide safety margin***.

* Wallaby
** Single loop of 130 (big surprise).
*** Yeah, right.

Technically...

Whoa! Don't start going technical on us, Lauren. Remember, this is hang gliding - where it's considered bad form to have gotten through the third grade in anything less than four tries.

...the tow plane's weak link will break sooner than the tandem's will.

Sorry. WAY too technical. We're breaching the realm of the concepts of more than and less than here.

Of course what happens in reality is not exactly what happens in principle -- though it WAS what happened in this case.

Lessee... You're using four-stranders on the back end and three-stranders on the front. Now we're getting into the higher mathematics of the more than / less than thing I tried to warn you about.

Had the plane's weak link not broken, I would have been left towing from my shoulders, which would have been okay.

Yeah Lauren, half a mile up with everything straight and level you and your passenger would've been smelling like roses.

I could have released from my barrel release on my shoulders...

Sure you could've.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3107
I have a tandem rating!!!

Lauren Tjaden - 2008/03/23 22:20:15 UTC

When Jim got me locked out to the right, I couldn't keep the pitch of the glider with one hand for more than a second (the pressure was a zillion pounds, more or less), but the F'ing release slid around when I tried to hit it. The barrel release wouldn't work because we had too much pressure on it.

With twice the load on it it'll be twice as easy to use. No, wait - that's the Linknife. Sorry Lauren - you and your passenger are fucked.

...or Paul could have given me the rope.

Right. You should always trust your driver to do the right thing at the right time.

1998/10/25 - Jamie Alexander / Frank Spears - Groveland, Florida

At a point just before things went bad, the tug climbed and the glider got low behind the tug. At about 75 feet AGL, one of the oscillations progressed into a left turn that quickly accelerated into a bank of approximately 80 or 90 degrees, at which time the rope was released from the glider. The glider then slipped/dove into the ground impacting on the left leading edge, then nose, finally rolling over on the right leading edge and kingpost. The occupants impacted the ground with major injury to the head, neck, back and internal organs of both. Frank died at the site and Jamie the next morning at the hospital.

So you just keep on using whatever shitrigged equipment you feel like 'cause with Paul at the other end there's absolutely nothing that can go wrong. And don't ever be the least bit concerned about getting the rope 'cause you're always gonna be up high where it couldn't possibly be a problem.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3600
Weak link question

Lauren Tjaden - 2008/11/20 22:50:53 UTC

My only point here is that Tad's releases have not been extensively tested, and at least in my experience with them, are not safe.

And keep warning everybody how Tad's "RELEASES" - by which you mean weak links ('cause for you and just about all of the rest of hang gliding, there's no distinction) - are dangerous because - in your experience, which is zero - they don't prevent lockouts the way they're supposed to.

Had all else failed, I could have used my hook knife.

Sure you could've, Lauren. Name ONE instance in the history of aerotowing in which a hook knife came out of a sheath before the recovery crew arrived at the wreckage. But whatever delusions help with your confidence...

For whomever asked about the function of a weak link, it is to release the glider and plane from each other when the tow forces become greater than desirable...

Right, Lauren, the weak link is there to serve your desires. When you desire to stay on tow, it holds. When you desire to release, it blows. EXACTLY like it says in Towing Aloft...

A weak link is a very simple device--typically a loop of line--that is intended to break in the event towline tensions exceed a safe or desired threshold. Weak links have greatly improved the safety of towing over the years.

...whether that is due to a lockout or a malfunction of equipment or whatever.

Yep. Greatest thing since sliced bread. No matter what goes wrong the good ol' weak link is there to keep you out of trouble.

If you fail to maintain the correct tow position (centered, with the wheels of the tug on the horizon), the weak link will break before you can get into too much trouble.

See? Sez so right on Wallaby's website. How can anyone argue against something like that?

This can save a glider, a tow pilot, or more often, a hang glider pilot who does not get off of tow when he or she gets too far out of whack.

Sure they can.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3107
I have a tandem rating!!!

Lauren Tjaden - 2008/03/23 22:20:15 UTC

Anyhow, the tandem can indeed perform big wingovers, as I demonstrated when I finally got separated from the tug.

And how come Rob Richardson, Mike Haas, Steve Elliot, and Roy Messing ain't around no more?

I rarely break weak links...

Lauren Tjaden - 2003/12/14

This fall at Ridgely, I had a weak link break at maybe fifty feet. I thought I was going to have to land in the soybeans - the very tall soybeans - when I looked at my angle. But, my glider stalled quite dramatically almost instantly (hard not to stall when you have a break), and dove towards the ground (a bit disconcerting from so low).

http://www.jm2c.com/hangola/2005/0125.htm

Lauren Tjaden - 2005/01/21

I came off the cart smoothly, but at one hundred feet, started getting slammed. I tow lots, and I will tell you I have never felt anything like this before. Ginny leapt sideways and would go slack and then violently shudder. Jim hung onto the plane and I hung onto her basetube, but at 400 feet my pussy-##s weak link broke. Great. Now I had to land in the monster that had just attacked the runway. My glider set me down neatly, but adrenaline was practically spilling out my eyeballs by then.

...in fact, I believe the last one was some two years ago, and I have never broken one on a tandem (probably because I am light and also because I change them whenever they show any signs of wear).

Great. What are their ratings when fresh and why are you using them?

Everybody notice that after seventeen posts on this Davis Show thread the ONLY numbers that have been mentioned with respect to weak links by anyone - other than Deltaman and Ridgerodent - have been numbers of loops and tows?

They are a good thing to have, though!!

ABSOLUTELY!

So if Paul doesn't come in and try to tactfully rescue Lauren from this pile of shit she's created for herself we have to assume that he:
- buys into it himself; or
- doesn't give enough of a rat's ass about the safety of the hang gliding public to save them from it.

It's gonna be REAL interesting to see what people do and don't say in response to this rot.

Sam Kellner - 2011/07/30 17:06:39 UTC

You guys keep up the good work at QuestAir.

Sure, Sam. Whatever you say.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24534
It's a wrap

Steve Davy - 2011/08/01 03:37:02 UTC

What is the line tension required to break the weak link at the tug?

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3391
More on Zapata and weak link

Paul Tjaden - 2008/07/22 04:32:22 UTC

I got clobbered and rolled hard right in a split second. There was a very large noise and jerk as the relatively heavy weak link at the tug broke giving me the rope.

- Relatively heavy.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3600
Weak link question

Lauren Tjaden - 2008/11/20 22:50:53 UTC

Tad gave Paul a couple of HIS links while we were at the ECCs this year. Paul used them happily (without any situation that might cause a problem) until one day at Zapata in rough air while he was attempting to adjust his VG. Paul locked out badly and the link didn't break. The double weak-link attached to the tug plane BROKE because the forces were so extreme.

- Lighter than what the ones which Tad gave Paul allow.

- Not light enough to prevent a lockout in Zapata in rough air while you're trying to fly the glider with one hand and adjust the VG with the other. (Looks kinda like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fd84HxiigFQ
dead

'cept you've gotta imagine he was using a weak link like the ones Tad gave Paul.)

- Extreme.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3107
I have a tandem rating!!!

Lauren Tjaden - 2008/03/23 22:20:15 UTC

When Jim got me locked out to the right, I couldn't keep the pitch of the glider with one hand for more than a second (the pressure was a zillion pounds, more or less), but the F'ing release slid around when I tried to hit it. The barrel release wouldn't work because we had too much pressure on it.

Anyhow, the tandem can indeed perform big wingovers, as I demonstrated when I finally got separated from the tug.

- Too heavy to prevent a tandem glider from locking out and, after you finally get one of your Quest releases pried open, performing big wingovers.

What is the line tension required to break the weak link on the primary bridle? (Tandem)

chirp...chirp...chirp...chirp...chirp...

What is the line tension required to break the weak link on the secondary bridle? (Tandem)

chirp...chirp...chirp...chirp...chirp...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22660
What can be learned from this "scooter" towing accident?

Mitch Shipley - 2011/01/31 15:22:59 UTC

Jim, as I am starting to play with Elektra Tow (ET) at Quest Air (the battery powered "scooter" tow system you and Adam got me jazzed up about up at Highland) I've watched this thread closely. We all can learn.

Enjoy your posts, as always, and find your comments solid, based on hundreds of hours / tows of experience and backed up by a keen intellect/knowledge of the issues when it comes to most things in general and hang gliding AT/Towing in particular. Wanted to go on record in case anyone reading wanted to know one persons comments they should give weight to.

Sounds like another job for Keen Intellect Man. So what's your opinion on this issue, Jim? The silence is getting pretty long and deafening.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24546
Serious accident at SOGA

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/01 19:11:52 UTC

The first 500ft are mine.
If you're still back there after that, then maybe I can help. Till then, my "help" option is to give you the rope.
Ok? Follow me.

Yeah, Jim. The assumption must always be that a glider on tow is only there either against his will - 'cause he's using Flight Park Mafia equipment - or against your better judgment - especially below five hundred feet.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
weak links

Jim Rooney - 2007/08/01 19:49:30 UTC

It's more of this crappy argument that being on tow is somehow safer than being off tow.

And it's not like we wanna have people who make crappy arguments making their own decisions.

Tom Lyon - 2011/08/02 22:59:41 UTC

That's very wise, and reasonable, advice. Tow pilots put themselves in enough danger by being willing to be connected to another aircraft flown by a pilot they often don't know at all

Yeah Jackie, SO MANY tug drivers have been crashed, injured, and killed because of incompetent glider pilots pulling them into dives and stalls and overwhelming their ability to squeeze the lever on the joystick. (Do you get free tows for spouting crap like that?)

Manned Kiting
The Basic Handbook of Tow Launched Hang Gliding
Daniel F. Poynter
1974

"A bad flyer won't hurt a pin man but a bad pin man can kill a flyer." - Bill Bennett
"The greatest dangers are a rope break or a premature release." - Richard Johnson

Yeah, Bill's talking about somebody on a boat. But somebody name me ONE Dragonfly driver who's been crashed due to the incompetence of the glider.

Andrew Stakhov - 2011/08/02 13:57:35 UTC

TSA didn't wanna come out to investigate as apparently it wasn't a fatality and it was just an ultralight so it was not worth their time (WTF?).

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/02 16:13:25 UTC

Wait... what?
You want the TSA to come out?

You've got to be joking.

Yeah Jim, I TOTALLY get exactly where you're coming from.

Andrew Stakhov - 2011/08/02 16:45:29 UTC

I have mixed feelings about this. Obviously TSA involvement would be a pain in the ass for the club. On the other hand as a holder of PPL I'm rather put off that the organization who's primary mandate is to investigate crashes to prevent reoccurrences doesn't want to get involved. In fact this question was on the actual pilot exam - what is the primary purpose of TSA. Many regulations that govern aviation industry were the results of crashes and subsequent investigations - something I consider a good thing. It's a little sad to see when this isn't being enforced evenly across the board. Even if it was a pilot error, that's something that should be determined and included into the TSA safety newsletter that is sent out to all pilots in Canada periodically. I always think that if it happened to someone, it could have happened to me so determining what caused an accident to happen and drawing lessons from it is an unfortunate but necessary part of how aviation gets safer.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=16439
Some day we will learn

Steve Morris - 2010/03/31 23:58:54 UTC

In 2009 there were several serious hang gliding accidents involving pilots on the HG forum (or who had close friends on the forum that reported that these accidents had occurred). In each case there was an immediate outcry from forum members not to discuss these accidents, usually referring to the feelings of the pilots' families as a reason to not do so. In each case it was claimed that the facts would eventually come out and a detailed report would be presented and waiting for this to happen would result in a better informed pilot population and reduce the amount of possibly harmful speculation.

In each of these cases I have never seen a final detailed accident report presented in this forum. So far as I can tell, the accident reporting system that has been assumed to exist here doesn't exist at all, the only reports I've seen are those published in the USHPA magazine. They are so stripped down, devoid of contextual information and important facts that in many cases I have not been able to match the magazine accident report with those mentioned in this forum.

The end result has been that effective accident reporting is no longer taking place in the USHPA magazine or in this forum. Am I the only one who feels this way?

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24546
Serious accident at SOGA

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/02 19:18:45 UTC

Uh... I hold a PPL too (BFD). I fly a dragonfly.
I still don't go begging for the red-tape machine to get involved.

Lesson learned?... push the damn stick forward.
You seriously think the TSA's going to tell you something different?

Riiiiight.

Martin Henry - 2011/08/03 06:16:04 UTC

Jim, well its easy to jump on the pilot for a mistake, every accident has its "profile" of events. Sometimes... something else creeps into the picture.

I could also agree that most of the time, first impressions are right, yup you play with a deep stall often enough its going to bite you. But, what if there was something else? A less likely cause? What "if"... in this situation the pilot had a mechanical failure? or a medical emergency? Every accident deserves to be properly assessed and learned from.

Yes, TSB can be a great big machine, but there are plenty of people within the system that can be very helpful making sense of what is often a very complex puzzle. I can personally vouch for some of the people I met within TSB that assisted me with an accident investigation involving a Aerotow tandem crash that resulted in two fatalities.

Sure... it may come down to "push the damn stick forward" ... but shouldn't somebody look a little deeper?

Bille Floyd - 2011/08/03 07:00:41 UTC

WHAT ?
Kinda like THIS ??

Like when the Aileron control tube, "Fell" off THIS DragonFly ???

Here is a quote before Ya open the Link :

What happened? Apparently a broken aileron control tube that then went through the prop.
Thanks to BRS for saving my life.

Alan

Taken from here:
http://www.ultralightnews.ca/advisories1/dragonflyfailure.htm

Gonna have to go with Martin on this one !!

Steve Davy - 2011/08/03 07:11:30 UTC

I'm going to agree with Jim here. No need to the get the TSA (or is it the TSB?) involved. After all the guy didn't die. Let's just say he took one for the home team and sweep this one under the rug.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24534
It's a wrap

Flashted - 2011/08/02 01:23:08 UTC

I like redundancy.

I use two barrel releases on my chest, with two link knives on the weak links that attach the bridle rope to the barrel releases. Impossible to not get rid of the whole thing if needed.
Skrew the cost of the tow rope, it isn't worth my life, and I have enough money to buy the park I am flying at a new one.
Cheers

I like redundancy.

Me too! That's why I always fly gliders with BOTH port and starboard leading edges, cross spars, downtubes, wire and batten sets, leading edge / cross spar junction bolts, wheels... If something blows on one side I'm still good on the other. It's the keel, kingpost, and basetube that really bother me. Need to have a talk with the manufacturers.

I use two barrel releases on my chest...

- Do you also use two spinnaker shackles on your keel? Probably not 'cause you've got all those backup releases on the bottom and there's no possibility of a wrap of the BOTTOM end of the bridle.

- Or do you just figure that you're never gonna be in a situation on tow which requires the speed range for which the glider was certified and just tow off your shoulders?

- Straight or bent pin? Just kidding.

...with two link knives on the weak links...

What are you using for weak links? Just kidding. I'm CERTAIN that someone as safety conscious as yourself uses the standard solo aerotow weak link that will always blow before you can get into too much trouble.

...that attach the bridle rope to the barrel releases.

How long is the bridle rope? Just kidding. We can look up just two posts and see the one Paul's using. And he's a pro. Just go with the pros and you can't go wrong.

Impossible to not get rid of the whole thing if needed.

ABSOLUTELY. You've got redundant arms - one to grope around for a barrel or Linknife lanyard and another to fly the glider.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/skysailingtowing/message/6726
Weaklinks

Peter Birren - 2008/10/27 23:41:49 UTC

Imagine if you will, just coming off the cart and center punching a thermal which takes you instantly straight up while the tug is still on the ground. Know what happens? VERY high towline forces and an over-the-top lockout. You'll have both hands on the basetube pulling it well past your knees but the glider doesn't come down and still the weaklink doesn't break (.8G). So you pull whatever release you have but the one hand still on the basetube isn't enough to hold the nose down and you pop up and over into an unplanned semi-loop. Been there, done that... at maybe 200 feet agl.

See? It worked for The Hallowed Inventor of The Linknife - at maybe 200 feet agl - even after his Infallible Weak Link failed to keep him from getting into too much trouble. That's why we back up weak links with releases - the redundancy thing.

And we can rest assured that crap like this never happens below two hundred feet because we never get first hand reports from pilots to whom it's happened below two hundred feet.

Manned Kiting - 1974

"Never take your hands off the bar." - Tom Peghiny

Yeah, but what did THEY know?

Skrew the cost of the tow rope, it isn't worth my life, and I have enough money to buy the park I am flying at a new one.

And besides, the friendly neighborhood farmer is highly likely to find it with his combine and bring it back to the airport anyway. So it's not really important for the tug to keep his weak link in compliance with the SOPs.

Cheers

Cheers!

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24546
Serious accident at SOGA

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/03 10:54:08 UTC

Why don't you just go ask your pilot what happened?

- Why hasn't the pilot told us what happened?
- If it was:
-- a problem with the Dragonfly is he necessarily gonna have any idea what it was?
-- pilot error is does he necessarily have the competence to evaluate the incident?
-- pilot error is it necessarily a good idea to be taking the word of someone who may have a personal interest in shifting blame?

Maybe take a little comfort in the fact that he's still here to answer the question.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=14230
pro tow set-up

Jim Rooney - 2009/11/02 18:58:13 UTC

Oh yeah... an other fun fact for ya... ya know when it's far more likely to happen? During a lockout. When we're doing lockout training, the odds go from 1 in 1,000 to over 50/50.

Since when did you start giving a rat's ass about pilot safety?

PS... yeah, you're right... what will he know? Let's ask the government to tell us. They'll have a much better idea than the pilot.

The Press - 2006/03/15

The Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) is urgently pushing for new hang-gliding industry standards after learning a hang-gliding pilot who suffered serious injuries in a crash three weeks ago had not clipped himself on to the glider.

Extreme Air tandem gliding pilot James (Jim) Rooney safely clipped his passenger into the glider before departing from the Coronet Peak launch site, near Queenstown, CAA sports and recreation manager Rex Kenny said yesterday.

However, he took off without attaching himself.

In a video, he was seen to hold on to the glider for about fifty meters before hitting power lines.

Rooney and the passenger fell about fifteen meters to the ground. The passenger suffered minor injuries.

Yeah Jim, what could someone who makes a career of investigating crashes know that the assholes who cause them don't?

P.S. On the subject of assholes... Please give my compliments to your mentors at Ridgely concerning the excellent jobs they did training you to connect yourself to your glider and Keavy for towing one in smooth morning air.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24534
It's a wrap

Marc Fink - 2011/08/02 13:24:57 UTC

I keep looking at the original photo--and what keeps popping into my mind is how could you get a wrap up like that to begin with.

Yeah, I keep looking at it too and I just can't make sense of it AT ALL!

Weak links are made as short as possible - within the confines of release operation demands - in order that they be incapable of contributing to a wrap.

We've already determined that it couldn't POSSIBLY be the fact that the weak link protrusion was three times longer than it should've been - so let's explore other theories.

I know from climbing experience that occasionally when pulling a rope through after a rappel that if done way fast the end of the rope could produce a "roll knot" (for lack of better description) that occasionally jammed in a crack--but I don't recall one ever wrapping up around a biner itself. I'm beginning to wonder if there might be a spin in the line/biner which may contribute to this?

THAT'S IT!!! The ONLY WAY this could've happened would've been if the carabiner started spinning the instant Lauren pried her Quest release open!!!

You da man, Marc.

Jim Gaar - 2011/08/02 15:27:03 UTC

Good observation!

Huh? I thought you were a Rooney Follower. Now you're following another Rooney Follower? Seems to me like you should cut out the middleman.

I too was trying to think how that could happen and the thought of the towline rotating/spinning as it pulled away crossed my pea-brain..

It's absolutely astonishing what has - AND HASN'T - crossed your pea-brain over the course of the time I've known you.

Has it crossed your pea-brain that:
- there's virtually nothing capable of causing a Dragonfly towline to develop any significant twist?
- no twist was detected when the glider was hooked up?
- nobody has EVER reported Dragonfly towline twist?
- this twist phenomenon ONLY seems to affect gliders with weak links three times too long?
- even Lauren seems to get that the problem was that the weak link was too long?

Joe Faust - 2011/08/03 01:30:07 UTC

Line torque? How much use of swivels and firmed low-torque sections are considered?

Jim Gaar - 2011/08/03 03:37:03 UTC

Hmmmm

Swivels on the towline just like our parachutes.

http://ozreport.com/12.082
Twisting in the Wind

Davis Straub - 2008/04/24 06:04:41 UTC

Chris Smith had an interesting thing happen to him here at the Santa Cruz Flats Race. On the first day he was towing behind a trike. Somehow the tow rope at the trike end got caught (just how is unclear), couldn't be released and was twisting up. It started vibrating at Chris's end. He wasn't aware of what the problem was and he decided just to hang on.

But the rope was now twisting and shorting itself and twisting itself up at Chris' end without him realizing it. Chris looked down as the rope kept vibrating and saw that his pro tow was twisting up also and twisting the barrel releases together. He immediately released one of his barrel releases and then the other, but that didn't release him from the tow rope, but it did scare him.

Then the weaklink broke and released him (just how is unclear).

One more thing to go wrong?

Yeah Jim. It might not swivel when it's supposed to. Or start swiveling when it's not supposed to.

Or it might fail without warning and dump you off tow! Can you IMAGINE how dangerous that could be? You're fifty feet off the runway, everything's fine, and all the sudden - POP! Makes my skin crawl just thinking about it.

Who can tell what might happen? Better leave this one alone.

And we should probably take them off our parachute bridles too just to be extra safe and prevent unknown problems we think could happen.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=22716
Hammondsport, NY - 7/30

Residenthooligan - 2011/08/03 12:50:23 UTC
Rochester

I landed in the trees, and paid with a fractured ankle. Below is an report I posted on my club's mailing list. Both accidents were completely preventable, so hopefully we can all learn from this.

My first mistake is getting too far behind the ridge. I started to sink, but then found some more lift and tried to climb some more. I was already WAY too far behind the ridge for current altitude. I should have headed back to the front of the ridge and continued to do passes to maintain or gain altitude. When I realized it was likely I was going to be in the trees I headed further back behind the ridge to flatter ground.

When I hit the trees, I threw my chute to in the hopes of getting it wrapped around a branch to stabilize my position. Luckily, there were some folks on launch who were able to to help me get stabilized by sending up some ropes with biners which I attached to my harness shoulder straps. During this process I got the bridle lines for the chute badly wrapped around the control bar. It was a tangled mess and I couldn't get it untangled.

Fire fighters and EMTs started showing up and getting ready to get me down. I was sweating heavily and becoming dehydrated. I had a bottle of water in my harness which helped me from becoming too faint. At about the two hour mark, a climber ascended the tree with a biner attached to the belay line.

He asked me where to put the biner and I told him to put it through where the biner attached to my glider was. The biner was only placed through my parachute bridle and not the rest of the harness. I cut the hang straps and dropped about five to ten feet hitting my arm on the glider on the way down. I bruised my arm on the flying wires during the drop. About half way down, we couldn't move any further so we made the decision to cut the parachute bridle. I fell the rest of the way to the ground (fifteen to twenty feet). The rescue crew put me on a stretcher and called in a helicopter for an emergency evacuation. At the time, I felt fine other than being exhausted. Quite amazingly, the only injury I sustained was a fractured ankle.

---

Both accidents...

I'm gonna let you off the hook for calling what put you INTO the trees an accident.

...were completely preventable, so hopefully we can all learn from this.

Yeah. When you go or see someone go into the trees think REALLY HARD before you dial 911.