Weak links

General discussion about the sport of hang gliding
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Tad Eareckson
Posts: 9161
Joined: 2010/11/25 03:48:55 UTC

Re: Weak links

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/skysailingtowing/message/4633
Weaklinks and aerotowing (ONLY)
Steve Kroop - 2005/02/10 04:50:59 UTC

Cc: Rohan Holtkamp ; Paris Williams
Hey Rohan Holtkamp ; Paris Williams...

Did either of you assholes have any comment on this load o' crap?
Davis,

Your weak link comments are dead on.
As, of course were, Dr. Trisa Tilletti's comments in the 2012/06 Higher Education magazine article - peer-reviewed and approved for publication by the USHPA Towing Committee.
I have been reading the weak link discussion in the OR with quiet amusement.
Tell us about some of the other discussions this critical to the safety of hang gliding operations you've read with quiet amusement.

In eight months minus a bit over a week from now Bill Priday's gonna run off the ramp at Whitwell with his carabiner dangling and there are gonna be huge discussions, a magazine article, a lawsuit, and a major organizational shake-up. Were you gonna sit on your fat stupid ass in front of the screen with all the answers to everything watching all that action in quiet amusement while not bothering to say anything?
Quiet, because weak links seem to be one of those hot button issues that brings out the argumentative nature of HG pilots and also invokes the "not designed here" mentality and I really did not want to get drawn into a debate.
Just like unhooked launches:

- Always do a hang check so's you can run off the cliff totally confident that you're hooked in.

- Never get into your harness unless it's connected to your glider so's you can always run off the cliff totally confident that you're hooked in.
Amusement, because I find it odd that there was so much ink devoted to reinventing the wheel.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
Davis Straub - 2011/08/26 14:04:52 UTC

We had six weaklink breaks in a row at Zapata this year.
Six consecutive attempts to pull out of the driveway, six consecutive failures as a consequence of the tire falling off the rim. That's a totally awesome wheel you have - PIGFUCKER. What were the ancestors of you Questies doing when other folk were pinging in on round? Trying to carve arrowheads out of bananas?
Russell Brown (tug pilot, tug owner, Quest Air owner) said go ahead and double up (four strands of Cortland Greenspot).
Ooh look! There's Russell Brown (tug pilot, tug owner, Quest Air owner) reinventing the wheel for a round of competition!
Davis Straub - 2011/08/28 15:26:28 UTC

We couldn't figure out why we had so many breaks so quickly. Maybe just coincidence.
When he gets a chance that evening he's gonna check to see if he just got a bad batch of bananas.
Collectively I would say that there have been well over a 100,000 tows in the various US flight parks using the same strength weak link with tens of thousands of these tows being in competition
What percentage of them...

http://ozreport.com/13.238
Adam Parer on his tuck and tumble
Adam Parer - 2009/11/25

Due to the rough conditions weak links were breaking just about every other tow and the two tugs worked hard to eventually get everyone off the ground successfully.
...got more than ten feet off the runway?
Yes I know some of these have been with strong links but only the best of the best aerotow pilots are doing this.
- Who are "the best of the best"? Name some of them - motherfucker.

-- You're very obviously talking third person plural. That means you consider neither yourself nor Davis Dead-On Straub...

Image
http://ozreport.com/pub/images/fingerlakesaccident2.jpg
http://ozreport.com/pub/images/fingerlakesaccident3.jpg
Image

...to be amongst the best of the best. And Davis...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks
Davis Straub - 2013/03/06 18:29:05 UTC

You know, after all this discussion I'm now convinced that it is a very good idea to treat the weaklink as a release, that that is exactly what we do when we have a weaklink on one side of a pro tow bridle. That is exactly what has happened to me in a number of situations and that the whole business about a weaklink only for the glider not breaking isn't really the case...
...totally fucking CONFIRMS for us that he's not amongst the best of the best. He apparently doesn't think it's a good idea for...
...nor a good idea for hang gliding.
...ANYBODY to be...

http://ozreport.com/12.081
Weaklinks - the HGFA rules
Davis Straub - 2008/04/22 14:47:00 UTC
Pilots must use weaklinks provided by the meet organizers and in a manner approved by the meet organizers. All weaklinks will be checked and use of inappropriate weaklinks will require the pilot to go to the end of the launch line to change the weaklink.

Weaklinks will consist of a single loop of Cortland 130 lb. Greenspot braided Dacron Tolling line and should be placed at one end of a shoulder bridle.
...amongst the best of the best - under ANY circumstances. Neither, for that matter...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks
Jim Rooney - 2013/03/04 19:31:36 UTC

The law of the land at comps was 130lb greenspot or you don't tow. Seriously. It was announced before the comp that this would be the policy. Some guys went and made their case to the safety committee and were shut down. So yeah, sorry... suck it up.
...does Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney.

So are you quite sure you're qualified to be reading the weak link discussion in the OR with quiet amusement? Shouldn't that privilege be reserved for one of the best of the best?

- Do ALL of the best of the best use:
-- stronglinks or do some of the best of the best use Rooney Links to put other competitors off their guard?
-- the same stronglink or do the better of the best of the best use stronger stronglinks than the mediocre best of the best?

- How come there are no:

-- USHGA / Flight Park Mafia:

--- training films of the best of the best aerotow launching so's more of us muppets can more rapidly move up the ladder into the high octane world of stronglink launching?

--- Higher Education magazine articles; chapters in the excellent book, Towing Aloft, by Dennis Pagen and Bill Bryden; Mitch Shipley or Steve Exceptionally-Knowledgeable Wendt clinics on proper stronglinking techniques and skills?

--- Strong Link Special Skills signoffs - available to Hang Fours and up - so's that the best of the best can just flash their cards when they go to different flight parks and don't hafta waste all that valuable time convincing operators, cart monkeys, tug pilots that they're the best of the best?

--- extra safe weak links being mandated, used, recommended for the worst of the worst - and/or people flying homemade funky shit gear in midday conditions?

-- mentions whatsoever in any SOPs, regulations, recommendations anywhere in the world of weak link strength being proportional to anything other than flying weight - by the douchebags - and glider capacity - by the FAA and half dozen people in the sport who know what the fuck they're doing and talking about?

- Why would the best of the best want anything other than the wheel that's been refined over a hundred thousand US aerotows? Do they see some disadvantage to the Rooney Link and/or some advantage to the Tad-O-Link?

-- Do the best of the best:

--- use better launch dollies, parachutes, helmets than the muppets?

--- trade off safety for better performance like they do with their gliders and sprog settings? If so can you discuss cost/benefit ratios and sweet spots for us?

Hard to believe that Mike Barber isn't amongst the best of the best. And he's totally into...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tj1Z_BI5OXs


...knocking risks down to the one in a hundred thousand ballpark - doing faggot stuff like landing in the middles of huge putting greens on wheels. Is he flying a stronglink? If:
- so, why?
- not, why not?

- How the fuck do you know who is and isn't flying stronglinks - especially while you're watching the discussion in quiet amusement with your stupid head two feet up your ass? You get weekly reports from every aerotow operation on the planet detailing all the fishing line being used on all the launches and which pilots are recognized as the best of the best and what they're matched with?

Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney doesn't...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec
Jim Rooney - 2013/02/15 06:48:18 UTC

AP flies in OZ
I have no clue what they're using over there.
...even have a clue what they use in Australia. And he has a very keen intellect. And for all we know you could be a pedophile.

- We hear INCESSANT bitching about allegedly under-qualified muppets hopping on topless competition bladewings - sometimes even from the muppets themselves as they decide to drop back down to Sport 2s. But ONLY the best of the best are flying fishing line that breaks less than six times in a row in light morning conditions? The aerotow operations are selling bladewings to underqualified muppets and/or happily pulling them up pro toad in Mike Haas and Zack Marzec conditions but nobody's getting on a cart with thicker fishing line? Surely that can't be true. Name some stupid criminally negligent bullshit that hang gliding hasn't yet thought of, implemented, killed someone with (Shane Smith comes to immediate mind), and reported on. So where are the reports on the dead stronglinkers? Failing that, how 'bout just a bruised one? A scared one maybe?

- I don't know if you've had time to read the USHGA / FAA regulations on hang glider aerotow weak links, Mister USHGA Towing Committee Chairman, what with all the time you've been engaged in reading the weak link discussion in the OR - which was kicked off by one of the best of the best, a national champion in fact, getting killed by some of Bobby Fucking-Genius Bailey's shit aerotow equipment at a world championship competition - with quiet amusement but under THE FUCKING *LAW*:

-- weak link strength is REQUIRED to be proportional to glider capacity
-- you Questie pigfuckers are supposed to have fuckin' clues what your BREAKING STRENGTHS are

And WHEN you're using the same Rooney Link you do on a 350 pound big dude glider that you do on a 200 pound little chick glider...

Image

...the little chick is flying at seventy-five percent higher Gs. So that automatically puts her into the best of the best category whether she wants it to or not and even if she doesn't have a fuckin' clue about...

Image

...setting the pitch on the launch dolly.
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Tad Eareckson
Posts: 9161
Joined: 2010/11/25 03:48:55 UTC

Re: Weak links

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/skysailingtowing/message/4633
Weaklinks and aerotowing (ONLY)
Steve Kroop - 2005/02/10 04:50:59 UTC

You are completely correct about weak links and lockouts.
Yeah, if you continually spew whatever crap is most convenient at any given moment eventually you'll have said all the right things.
If I can beat the horse a little more...
OF COURSE YOU CAN!!! You're on The Peter Show advocating chintzy one size fits all fishing line which dumps gliders back on the runway six outta six times in light morning conditions. You can beat THAT horse till hell freezes over. Name ONE ASSHOLE who's ever gotten in any serious trouble...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-bRrpHNa68iY/UQ6Pv9gRZyI/AAAAAAAAjTg/Hc22bx5122Q/s2048/20943781_BG1.jpg
Image

...defending the use of 130 pound Greenspot.
Weak links are there to protect the equipment...
- Really? What "equipment"? The glider? Harness? Helmet? Vario? Backup loop?

- Yeah. It's there to protect the...

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/skysailingtowing/message/4049
Towing errata
Bill Bryden - 2004/04/01 16:20:18 UTC

Some aerotow releases, including a few models from prominent schools, have had problems releasing under high tensions. You must VERIFY through tests that a release will work for the tensions that could possibly be encountered. You better figure at least three hundred pounds to be modestly confident.

Maybe eight to ten years ago I got several comments from people saying a popular aerotow release (with a bicycle type brake lever) would fail to release at higher tensions. I called and talked to the producer sharing the people's experiences and concerns. I inquired to what tension their releases were tested but he refused to say, just aggressively stated they never had any problems with their releases, they were fine, goodbye, click. Another person tested one and found it started getting really hard to actuate in the range of only eighty to a hundred pounds as I vaguely recall. I noticed they did modify their design but I don't know if they ever really did any engineering tests on it. You should test the release yourself or have someone you trust do it. There is only one aerotow release manufacturer whose product I'd have reasonable confidence in without verifying it myself, the Wallaby release is not it.
Lockout Mountain Flight Park - 2009/07/12

The new GT aerotow release, new as of July 11th 2009, is designed to be used with a V bridle and a 130-pound green stripe Dacron tournament fishing line weak link. At this time it is not recommended to use this release with a higher value weak link. We are confident that with an ultimate load of 130 pounds at the release point, the new GT aerotow release works better than all cable releases that we have experience with.
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=21033
barrels release without any tension except weight of rope..
Bart Weghorst - 2011/02/25 19:06:26 UTC

I've had it once where the pin had bent inside the barrel from excessive tow force. My weaklink was still intact. The tug pilot's weaklink broke so I had the rope. I had to use two hands to get the pin out of the barrel.
No stress because I was high.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks
Jim Rooney - 2013/03/10 22:58:21 UTC

I'm not bothered by straight pin releases.
I do think the strong link guys gravitate to them due to the higher release tensions that strong links can encounter.
I don't like homade stuff.
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=14230
pro tow set-up
Ryan Voight - 2009/11/06 18:14:30 UTC

All the more reason to use a WEAKER weaklink. If you're bending pins rather than breaking the weaklink, I have to think your weaklink is too strong (and now the pin has become the weakest link in the system Image
..."EQUIPMENT".

In REAL aviation...
Tost Flugzeuggerätebau

Weak links protect your aircraft against overloading.
...the weak links is there to protect the AIRCRAFT - from overloading.

But we very carefully avoid saying anything about the AIRCRAFT because every idiot out there knows they're all good for at least six Gs and we don't want people talking Gs...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=12587
weak links (here we go)
flyhg1 - 2009/06/23 14:33:36 UTC

Well, it is supposed to be there to keep you from overstressing your aircraft which is why the breaking strength is specified as a function of the weight of the glider (maximum certificated weight in the case of a sailplane FWIW) which Tad likes to convert to Gs.
...like TAD "likes to do" because we don't want anybody thinking about and questioning any ACTUAL NUMBERS.

Very similar to the way the FAA pigfuckers refer to weak links as "safety links" and...
FAA Glider Flying Handbook
- Chapter 7 - Launch and Recovery Procedures and Flight Maneuvers
- Section 4 - Takeoff Emergency Procedures

The most common emergency situations on takeoff develop when a towrope breaks, there is an inadvertent towrope release, or towplane loses power. There are five planning situations regarding in-motion towrope breaks, uncommanded release, or power loss of the towplane. While the best course of action depends on many variables, such as runway length, airport environment, and wind, all tow failures have one thing in common: the need to maintain control of the glider. Two possibilities are stalling the glider, or dragging a wingtip on the ground during a low altitude turn and cartwheeling the glider.
... studiously avoid any mention of the "safety link" - they mandate and permit as low as 0.8 Gs / 57 percent of manufacturer specification - being a possible precipitant of an emergency situation capable of stalling or cartwheeling the glider back into the runway.
...not the glider pilot.
Well isn't the glider pilot a part of the equipment? You can put little radios, wires, servos on a conventional fixed wing aircraft and it'll fly just fine. But on a hang glider you can't really do without the pilot and his mass, muscle, arms. And he's really expensive. So shouldn't we be using insanely light weak link to really protect him well? Isn't that why they determined that hang glider weak links should pop every other tow while sailplane weak links should NEVER pop?
Anyone who believes otherwise is setting them selves up for disaster.
No, I understand what you're saying and am totally with you. But why do you think there's so much in the way of argument about this that you need to be reading the discussions with quiet amusement? Your flight parks are all...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24534
It's a wrap
Lauren Tjaden - 2011/08/01 02:01:06 UTC

For whomever asked about the function of a weak link, it is to release the glider and plane from each other when the tow forces become greater than desirable -- whether that is due to a lockout or a malfunction of equipment or whatever. This can save a glider, a tow pilot, or more often, a hang glider pilot who does not get off of tow when he or she gets too far out of whack.
...teaching this stuff properly...

http://www.wallaby.com/aerotow_primer.php
Aerotow Primer for Experienced Pilots
Wallaby Ranch - 2014/06/16

If you fail to maintain the correct tow position (centered, with the wheels of the tug on the horizon), the weak link will break before you can get into too much trouble.
Right?
The pilot activating his or her releases is their way to save themselves.
But...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22660
What can be learned from this "scooter" towing accident?
Jim Rooney - 2011/02/06 18:35:13 UTC

I don't really have anything against the Kotch release.
I think it's big, clunky and expensive, but I'm sure it works fine.
I'm also sure it has it's problems just like any other system. The minute someone starts telling me about their "perfect"system, I start walking away.
...ALL releases WILL fail at some point. And that point WILL come at a time when you're in the middle of a deadly low level lockout. So the pilot really needs a wheel that he doesn't have to reinvent with a long track record that might break in time to save themselves.

This is pretty basic stuff and I'm a bit surprised you're omitting it from your clarifications.
Summary

Do not attempt to aerotow unless you have received proper training
Or you can just flip through pages of a dictionary, pick out words at random, put them in a hat, pull them out and read them - the way the flight parks prepare their instructional material, study guides, tests.
Do not attend an aerotow comp if you do not have considerable experience flying a comp class glider in comp class conditions
And make sure you've really got your shit together on stall recovery.
Weak links are there to protect the equipment
And since everybody uses the same "equipment"...

http://ozreport.com/12.081
Weaklinks - the HGFA rules
Davis Straub - 2008/04/22 14:47:00 UTC

Appropriate aerotow bridles

Competitors must use appropriate aerotow bridles as determined by the Meet Director and Safety Director and their designated officials. Bridles must include secondary releases (as determined by the Safety Director). Bridles must be able to be connected to the tow line within two seconds. The only appropriate bridles can be found here:
http://www.ozreport.com/9.039#0
Image
and here:
http://ozreport.com/9.041#2
Image
Image
...it pretty fucking obviously needs to be protected with the same weak link.
Weak links do NOT prevent lockouts and no amount of weak link rules will prevent lock outs
So let's totally fucking ignore the FAA regulations concerning them and do whatever the hell Davis Dead-On Straub and Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney order us to.
In the event of a lock out releases are there to save the pilot
Your mission, Mr. Phelps, should you decide to accept, will be to swing your body way outside the control frame so it stays up there while you make the easy reach with one hand and release.

05-215
Image
07-300
Image
08-301
Image
09-304
Image
11-311
Image
15-413
Image

Come on - do some pushups this winter. :roll: See if you can advance up to some one-arm pushups. It's easy.

And whenever you read a fatality report like this one:
Joe Gregor - 2004/09

There is no evidence that the pilot made an attempt to release from tow prior to the weak link break, the gate was found closed on the Wallaby-style tow release.
from that asshole you do it with quiet amusement because you know the muppet didn't bother to do the requisite pushups that winter in accordance with the USHGA SOPs for AT Special Skill currency.
Best regards, Steve - Flytec USA
Yeah Steve... Best regards to you too.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
Jim Rooney - 2011/08/25 04:55:25 UTC

I mean seriously... ridgerodent's going to inform me as to what Kroop has to say on this? Seriously? Steve's a good friend of mine. I've worked at Quest with him. We've had this discussion ... IN PERSON. And many other ones that get misunderstood by the general public. It's laughable.
Yeah, you very obviously ARE a good friend of Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney's. The putrid stench...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks
Jim Rooney - 2013/03/03 19:37:19 UTC

But then there's a crowd that "knows better". To them, we're all morons that can't see "the truth".
(Holy god, the names I've been called.)

I have little time for these people.

It saddens me to know that the rantings of the fanatic fringe mask the few people who are actually working on things. The fanaticism makes it extremely hard to have a conversation about these things as they always degrade into arguments. So I save the actual conversations for when I'm talking with people in person.
...is totally unmistakable.

Ditto with respect to your correspondent...
Jim Rooney - 2011/08/28 06:15:12 UTC

You may not know, but Davis is a friend of mine.
We have discussed this many times in person. We are not in disagreement.
...Davis Dead-On Straub. And I wouldn't bother pausing to piss on any one of you or anyone who would ever have anything to do with any one of you to help mitigate the effects of a napalm roasting.

Really admire the way you've managed to restrain yourself from being drawn into any debates on any hang gliding issues over the course of your entire history in the sport and just read them all in quiet amusement. Real common theme in USHGA Towing Committee Chairmen. As far as I can tell this post is the only instance from you of anything close.
User avatar
Tad Eareckson
Posts: 9161
Joined: 2010/11/25 03:48:55 UTC

Re: Weak links

Post by Tad Eareckson »

Let's waste a little more bandwidth and take a look at the intact/undissected post and ask some fundamental questions...

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/skysailingtowing/message/4633
Weaklinks and aerotowing (ONLY)
Steve Kroop - 2005/02/10 04:50:59 UTC

Cc: Rohan Holtkamp ; Paris Williams

Davis,

Your weak link comments are dead on. I have been reading the weak link discussion in the OR with quiet amusement. Quiet, because weak links seem to be one of those hot button issues that brings out the argumentative nature of HG pilots and also invokes the "not designed here" mentality and I really did not want to get drawn into a debate. Amusement, because I find it odd that there was so much ink devoted to reinventing the wheel. Collectively I would say that there have been well over a 100,000 tows in the various US flight parks using the same strength weak link with tens of thousands of these tows being in competition. Yes I know some of these have been with strong links but only the best of the best aerotow pilots are doing this.

You are completely correct about weak links and lockouts. If I can beat the horse a little more: Weak links are there to protect the equipment not the glider pilot. Anyone who believes otherwise is setting them selves up for disaster. The pilot activating his or her releases is their way to save themselves. A perfect analogy is the circuit breaker in your home, it is there to protect the wire not what you plug into the wall socket. If anyone does not believe me they can plug their car retrieve 2-way radio into the wall socket and watch it go up in flames with the circuit breaker cumfortably remaining in the on position (I hope no one really tries this ;-).

A discussion of the strength of weak links is incomplete without a discussion of the tow bridal. I hear (read) strengths quoted with respect to the combined pilot and glider weight yet this is meaningless info with out knowing what bridal configuration is used and where it is placed in the bridal system. For example, a 200# weak link can allow between 200# and 800# of towline force depending on where it is placed within the various popular bridal configurations.

On the tow plane we use 1-1/2 loops (3 strands) of 130# line. The weak link is placed in the top of a V-bridal which would yield a maximum nominal towline tension of around 780#. However, due to the fact the knots (two are required since there are three strands) are not "buried" the maximum towline tension is greatly reduced. I do not know the exact tow line tension required to break this weak link but the value is somewhat moot since the weak link is not too strong so as to cause any damage to the tow plane and it is not too weak to leave the glider pilot with the towline.

Summary

Do not attempt to aerotow unless you have received proper training
Do not attend an aerotow comp if you do not have considerable experience flying a comp class glider in comp class conditions
Weak links are there to protect the equipment
Weak links do NOT prevent lockouts and no amount of weak link rules will prevent lock outs
In the event of a lock out releases are there to save the pilot

Best regards, Steve - Flytec USA
Industry brass pigfuckers - USHGA Directors, Committee Chairmen, flight park operators, glider manufacturers, excellent book authors, mainstream forum administrators - NEVER post ANYTHING unless they ABSOLUTELY *HAVE* TO 'cause once they put anything in black and white they open themselves up to ANNHILATION.

(Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney hasn't figured that out yet 'cause he's a stupid egomaniacal little shit who loves to hear himself pretending to know what the fuck he's talking about and being deified by all the brain dead dregs in this sport who are in desperate need of messiahs to tell them what's what and who's who as substitutes for solid understandings of theory they have no way in hell of attaining. And he's already done a lot of serious irreparable damage to himself that he's too fuckin' stupid to even be aware of.)

So why does Steve HAVE TO?

http://ozreport.com/9.032
The Worlds - weaklinks
Rohan Holtkamp - 2005/02/07

After viewing video evidence of the entire flight, even a 80kg weaklink would have made little difference. His actual weaklink did test to be stronger than 180kg, but that was not the primary cause of his accident. Release failure was, same as Mike Nooy's accident. A full lockout can be propagated with less than forty kg of tension. Read "Taming the beast" on our website and/or come have a look at the video if you doubt this in any way.
Davis Straub - 2005/02/07

So if weaklinks don't do much to save us from lockouts, an argument heard repeatedly at the Worlds, then why are we using them after Robin's lockout (and not before)?

What exactly is the point of weaklinks? Why should we be using them? What is the tradeoff in safety between breaking a weaklink and thereby having a problem, and not breaking a weaklink and thereby having a problem?

Perhaps if you laid out the case re the tradeoffs involving weaklinks, we could make a better decision about them. For a couple of years I have flown with a doubled weaklink because, flying with a rigid wing glider, I have found that there is little reason to expect trouble on tow, except from a weaklink break. Am I wrong in this?
Because in the wake of the Robin Strid Bobby Fucking-Genius Bailey Release fatality enough shit has been stirred up to bring the sanctity of the Bobby Fucking-Genius Bailey Standard Aerotow Inconveniencer into question.

Notice that Steve Quiet-Amusement Kroop:

- 's comment comes three days after that Davis Report edition.

- isn't posting his comment on the publicly accessible Davis Report or Davis Show Forum that Steve's been reading in quiet amusement. He's posted it on the heavily restricted Peter Cult on which nobody can even READ *ANYTHING• without clearing a security check by Peter.

If somebody has something important and valid to say and say it for the benefit of the sport and its participants he doesn't slip it into a little box on The Peter Show. The ONLY crap from The Peter Show that gets quoted and made available to the public is what Kite Stringers have harvested and reposted for scrutiny and discussion.

If you give a flying fuck about the sport and its participants you don't avoid being drawn into debates. You wade into, start, fuel them and fight them to bitter ends come hell or high water as puplicly as possible.

This is NOT a post about clarifying the purpose of the weak link...
Weak links are there to protect the equipment not the glider pilot.
...as an overload protector. This is a post about securing the definition of a Quest Link as a pilot protector / lockout preventer thinly disguised as a post about clarifying the purpose of the weak link as an overload protector. So when Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney says:

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
Jim Rooney - 2011/08/25 04:55:25 UTC

I mean seriously... ridgerodent's going to inform me as to what Kroop has to say on this? Seriously? Steve's a good friend of mine. I've worked at Quest with him. We've had this discussion ... IN PERSON. And many other ones that get misunderstood by the general public. It's laughable.
...he's actually being totally truthful (while somehow managing not to go into full cardiac arrest) as when Steve makes this post he's lying like a fuckin' rug.

Steve tells us:
Weak links are there to protect the equipment not the glider pilot.
but he NEVER tells us what:
- "the equipment" is
- the weak link is supposed to be protecting "the equipment" FROM

Do a search for the word...
Tost Flugzeuggerätebau

Weak links protect your aircraft against overloading.
..."overload". See what comes up.

And that calculated vagueness provides cover for loyal assholes like Paul Hurless to be able to get away with statements like:

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=26870
weak links
Paul Hurless - 2012/08/15 15:44:16 UTC

My personal opinion is that ALL of the safety equipment I use is to protect me, not my glider, so I have to agree to disagree with anyone who says differently.
A discussion of the strength of weak links is incomplete without a discussion of the tow bridal.
And, of course:

- it hasn't started yet without defining what the purpose of the weak link is, max certified operating weights, and Gs. Yet nowhere in this bullshit post do we find any mention of any of the above.

- a discussion of the strength of weak links is incomplete without a discussion of T** at K*** S****** being a convicted pedophile. But we can forgive you that oversight, Steve Quietly-Amused Kroop, 'cause that was back before Quest had perfected aerotowing to the extent it would a little later - as the need arose.
I hear (read) strengths quoted...
Well, you've heard (read) strengths quoted - so we certainly don't need to waste any bandwidth reporting what Quest has actually determined through their actual testing or whose test results they're accepting and under what conditions those tests were conducted.
...with respect to the combined pilot and glider weight...
Which, as we all know from the people who've spent twenty years perfecting aerotowing, which was obviously perfect as soon as they started perfecting it, is precisely...

http://www.questairforce.com/aero.html
Aerotow FAQ
Weak Link

The strength of the weak link is crucial to a safe tow. It should be weak enough so that it will break before the pressure of the towline reaches a level that compromises the handling of the glider but strong enough so that it doesn't break every time you fly into a bit of rough air. A good rule of thumb for the optimum strength is one G, or in other words, equal to the total wing load of the glider. Most flight parks use 130 lb. braided Dacron line, so that one loop (which is the equivalent to two strands) is about 260 lb. strong - about the average wing load of a single pilot on a typical glider.
...260 pounds - which is incredibly convenient because the Cortland Line Company makes this precision fishing line which breaks at precisely 260 pounds which is precisely 1.00 Gs which is precisely the good rule of thumb to keep the towline from reaching a pressure that compromises the handling of the glider but won't break every time you fly into a bit of rough air.

Talk about perfecting aerotowing!!! Fuckin' bases loaded, out of the park home run on the first swing at the first pitch!!! Dude!!!

So it would be really stupid at this point to use any more actual numbers about actual combined pilot and glider weight - let alone any max certified operating weights as mandated by existing FAA hang glider aerotowing regulations.
...yet this is meaningless info with out knowing what bridal configuration is used and where it is placed in the bridal system. For example, a 200# weak link can allow between 200# and 800# of towline force depending on where it is placed within the various popular bridal configurations.
C'mon Steve...

260 pound standard aerotow weak link on the top end of a three point bridal system, 260 pound towline pressure, weak enough so that it will break before the pressure of the towline reaches a level that compromises the handling of the glider, strong enough so that it doesn't break every time you fly into a bit of rough air, good rule of thumb for the optimum strength of one G, or in other words, equal to the total wing load of the glider, about the average wing load of a single pilot on a typical glider. This ain't rocket science.

This has been worked out already. Collectively I would say that there have been well over a hundred thousand tows in the various US flight parks using the same strength weak link with tens of thousands of these tows being in competition. Yes, I know some of these have been with stronglinks - but only the best of the best aerotow pilots, five or six at most, all way better than Davis and you, wearing really good parachutes and helmets, sworn to secrecy as to their identities, are doing this.

Let's not devote any more ink towards reinventing this wheel.
Summary
Summary...
Deltaman - 2013/02/16 22:41:36 UTC

How is that possible to write so much ..and say NOTHING !?
How is that possible to write so much... and say NOTHING !?

A topic that's ENTIRELY about NUMBERS and NOT ONE USEABLE NUMBER TO BE FOUND *ANYWHERE*. "Well over a 100,000" is the closest stab at anything claiming to be based in reality here - other than "130#" 'cause it's printed on the label so's they can't lie about it every time it becomes convenient like they do about everything else. Not even the number "one" as in Donnell's magic G number.

No commitment on a definition of what a weak link is supposed to be doing and no acknowledgement of any danger associated with a glider being dumped under any circumstances - as long as the pilot's been properly trained.

You look at the patterns of the writing from all these Industry shits - Pagen, Bryden, Matt, Malcolm, Glover, Kroop, Wendt, Trisa, Davis, Rooney, Ryan, Rodie, Paul, Lauren, Brad, Peter, Bob, Martin, Pinkerton - the similarities are absolutely mind blowing. I swear that for an AT Administrator, Instructor, Tug Pilot signoff there's a requirement for fifteen hours in a vacuous/evasive writing class. There's gotta be a textbook and we need to get ahold of it.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: Weak links

Post by Tad Eareckson »

Dr. Trisa Tilletti - 2012/06

It ties well, it holds up well, and has about the right tensile strength, and, according to John Vitek, who does line testing for IGFA, it breaks very consistently near 130 lbs. A caveat is that his experience is with line supplied to him by manufacturers, distributors, users, and world record applicants. He said that it is possible that the tensile strength of some line made by a manufacturer could vary more than the line samples that he has received and tested. He also said that if an aerotow operator wants to send him a sample of weak link line to be tested, he will be happy to do it for IGFA's usual fee.

One source states that their Dacron braided line is IGFA approved, and they publish a chart of the actual tested breaking strengths for their various lines. They state that their 130 lb. line breaks within one pound of 130, which is 5 to 10 times more precise than a metal TOST weak link.
Dr. Trisa Tilletti - 2012/06

We could get into details of lab testing weak links and bridles, but this article is already getting long. That would be a good topic for an article in the future. Besides, with our backgrounds in formal research, you and I both know that lab tests may produce results with good internal validity, but are often weak in regard to external validity--meaning lab conditions cannot completely include all the factors and variability that exists in the big, real world.
Oh.

So when you wanna justify 130 pound Greenspot as the ideal fishing line to meet your expectation of breaking as early as possible in lockout situations but being strong and reliable enough to avoid frequent breaks from turbulence and get it officially carved in granite for all eternity and denigrate Tost and anything and everything anybody else puts forward, lab testing has fuckin' FANTASTIC external validity.

But when we wanna verify that your magic Russell Brown Wrapped and Tied loops of fishing line blow at 260 pounds direct, plus or minus 0.8 percent, lab testing has no external validity WHATSOEVER. Not worth actually doing or paying John Vitek to do for us before publishing a fourteen page article on it. Because if his results didn't come within 0.8 percent of 260 it would only be because his lab conditions could not completely include all the factors and variability that exist in the big, real world.

So aren't the Tost figures also the result of lab conditions which could not have completely included all the factors and variability that exist in the big, real world? So how do you know that, with all the factors and variability that exist in the big, real world, the Tost isn't five to ten times more precise than the fishing line?

Pigfucker.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: Weak links

Post by Tad Eareckson »

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Aerotow Quick Link Break on Takeoff
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsEie-e4Ljc
kartingjj - 2012/01/09
Pull in right away. Thought about landing on my feet but felt the prop wash and decided to put it in on the wheels instead.
dead

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Are you sure you wanna do this, JJ? You DO realize that you're gonna be slamming into propwash at some point in the near future? That stuff can rip your wings off if you're not using an appropriate weak link of 1.5 inches or less.

There's still time to make the easy reach to that bicycle brake lever securely velcroed onto your starboard downtube. Once that sucker starts rolling you can forget about it.

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OK, dude. Your choice. Just make sure you don't wait until you're going Mach 5 before you come off the cart. That NEVER goes well. You wanna be fully airborne a second or two before you hit Mach 5.

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Propwash is on its way. Let's not take all afternoon to get off that cart.

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Any time now. The day's not getting any younger.

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Good job. Now when you slam into that propwash at Mach 5 you won't be coming off the cart.

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Better get that bar back as far as possible. Oh, I forgot. You're one of those faggots who use three point bridals. Never mind, you're OK.

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Here it comes. Watch out for rocks, broken bottles, rattlesnakes...

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You're at about Mach 4.7 now.

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Brace yourself.

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We're in the critical stage now. The tow pressure is redlining.

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Good news... Not seeing any rocks, broken bottles, rattlesnakes...

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I dunno. Extremely high tow pressures, could go into a lockout at any second. I have a bad feeling about this...

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THANK GOD! The standard aerotow weak link just increased the safety of the towing operation! About fuckin' time! I was afraid you were using one of those Tad-O-Links for a moment there. Most of them have been taken out of circulation and burned but every now and then...

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Off tow now...

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Nuthin' but smooth sailing and a guaranteed safe end to your flight now.

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Why? You're off tow. We're just talking inconvenience now...

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There's not one single instance from the history of hang glider aerotowing in which anything bad has happened to anybody who's just been popped off tow by a standard aerotow weak link.

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Yeah...

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There might be a narrow dry riverbed with large rocks strewn all over the place somewhere up ahead there...

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Better play it on the safe side.

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And wave to the Dragonfly if you get a chance to tell him thanks and that you're doing fine.

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- So? Propwash is only a danger when you're ON tow. When you're ON tow it can tear your wings off - or break your standard aerotow weak link and inconvenience you.

- Yes. The really deadly kind of propwash that only blows invisible dust up off the runway.

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This is not a good move. Even if there isn't a narrow dry riverbed with large rocks strewn all over the place up ahead you need to practice the landing you'll need to deal with the one you eventually WILL come down in.

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The standard aerotow weak link increases the safety of yet another towing operation!

So let's go back up on the SAME glider behind the SAME tug in the SAME air and see what happens.

http://www.rmhpa.org/messageboard/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=4074
Aerotowing weak link break on takeoff

Fuckin' Rocky Mountain club total moron.

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Tad Eareckson
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Re: Weak links

Post by Tad Eareckson »

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eY0uN8L5JnM
aerotow blown launch
parallaxax - 2013/06/15

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eY0uN8L5JnM


Got sideways and dragged up faster than expected.
---
jwm239

...a good recovery after such a fast climb! Was maybe a bit windy, or bar not pulled in enough?
parallaxax

yeah ,caught a bit of a gust there....
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27°09'44.92" S 151°15'52.19" E

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Good job not waiting until you're going Mach 5, lifting the cart, and slamming into the propwash.

But... You're having a bit of a PIO problem. First shift to the left maxed out:

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Not bad and not as bad as it looks 'cause the camera is sighted to the left.

Can't understand why you're being dragged up so fast. You have the bar practically stuffed.

Swinging back through and beyond high center position:

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Oh, you don't have an attachment on the keel - just pulling off your shoulders. You must be a pro. But if you're a pro I'm a bit surprised that you're a bit surprised that you're being dragged up so quickly.

Extremity of right shift:

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A fair bit worse than it looks 'cause of the camera offset.

Swinging back towards high center:

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Tug's about to disappear in front of you but at this point you're still on tow. (Open the url for full resolution and, if necessary, blow it up a bit. You can still see the towline under tension (for the last time from this camera.)) My best effort at analysis puts you at maybe a quarter second from max lockout progression / Davis Link success as your glider continues the swing.
Weak link breaks before I go into total lockout.
THANK GOD!!! We really owe those aerotow professionals bigtime for finding the perfect fishing line to override the decisions of the aerotow professional on the front end of the string and the muppet on the back to continue the tow and experience the fatal lockout which would have inevitably followed shortly - precision fishing line which, if you fail to maintain the correct tow position (centered, with the wheels of the tug on the horizon), will break before you can get into too much trouble.

Let's take a look at this lockout progression from Camera B...

Still on tow, no question:

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A frame / thirtieth of a second later:

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I think the Davis Link's blown by this point. If not, then within the next couple frames for sure...

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Backup loop and carabiner installed backwards - Industry Standard.

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So THIS:

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nine frames / 0.3 seconds after our last look at the tight towline from Camera A, is your idea of the weak link breaking before you go into total lockout.

You must be one of those guys who think they can fix bad things and don't wanna start over. Looks like your tuggie is of a similar persuasion...

27°09'36.75" S 151°15'48.01" E

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Doesn't look like HE was upset enough by anything that was going on back there to fix it by giving you the rope. And it doesn't look like he was in much danger of getting nosed in the way...

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...we're always hearing about.

You were high but nowhere near what other pro toads can get and Dragonflies can easily handle in bouncy conditions...

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...and you weren't flying in bouncy conditions. You were flying with a pretty flat heavy overcast with a bit of a breeze straight in your face. (Note windsock three Dalby frames back.)

You didn't even have the bar stuffed, you'd pretty much arrested your climb, the Dragonfly was in the process of lifting off and a second or two away from being able to start helping you out, and you'd just about finished damping out the oscillations. THIS:

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is an Aerotow Industry lockout.

- A little high for an aerotow launch but essentially perfect position. If this were a surface static tow this WOULD BE perfect position. And since the fucking Dragonfly hasn't quite gotten airborne yet this IS a surface static tow and thus this IS perfect position.

- Plenty of airspeed, crisp handling. (A bit TOO crisp - if anything.)

- Level as a fuckin' millpond.

In REAL hang gliding:

- the sole purpose of the weak link is to protect against overload and has absolutely nothing to do with lockout prevention.

- a lockout looks like THIS:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9fQuDzFuCE


Tension gets misaligned enough to overwhelm the pilot's control authority (which is nuthin' to write home about under the best of circumstances), a point of no return is reached and the tow's over - one way or another, mostly depending whether or not the glider release is a total piece of shit (which it damn near always is), and whether or not there's lotsa altitude (which there damn near always is).

In Aerotow Industry hang gliding:

- the sole purpose of the weak link is to prevent lockouts and has absolutely nothing to do with protecting against overload.

- a lockout is whatever's going on with the glider when the weak link breaks. (OBVIOUSLY, right? If that's the sole purpose of the weak link then what else would 'cause it to break. Perfect logic.)

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Our Brave New World.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
Jim Rooney - 2011/08/31 09:25:57 UTC

Oh how many times I have to hear this stuff.
I've had these exact same arguments for years and years and years.
Nothing about them changes except the new faces spouting them.

It's the same as arguing with the rookie suffering from intermediate syndrome.
They've already made up their mind and only hear that which supports their opinion.

Only later, when we're visiting them in the hospital can they begin to hear what we've told them all along.

Nobody's talking about 130lb weaklinks? (oh please)
Many reasons.
Couple of 'em for ya... they're manufactured, cheap and identifiable.

See, you don't get to hook up to my plane with whatever you please. Not only am I on the other end of that rope... and you have zero say in my safety margins... I have no desire what so ever to have a pilot smashing himself into the earth on my watch. So yeah, if you show up with some non-standard gear, I won't be towing you. Love it or leave it. I don't care.
Love it or leave it. Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney doesn't care.

P.S...

02:15
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNXZwfR-MyY


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Tina Jorgensen - 2013/11/09-10

Yeah, you were just... Might have been locked out a little bit.
I'm totally dead fucking serious about this.

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Tad Eareckson
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Re: Weak links

Post by Tad Eareckson »

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eY0uN8L5JnM
aerotow blown launch
OK, let's start back at the "lockout":

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and watch some more of how the Rooney Link increases the safety of the towing operation / punches more holes in this crappy argument that being on tow is somehow safer than being off tow...

Horizon starts getting crooked...

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Note the windsock. Makes takeoffs and landings pretty brain dead easy but aerotowing a lot more pointless 'cause that kinda wind isn't terribly friendly to thermal development and giving the people who work thermals wide ranges of options - ignoring, of course, the blanket overcast in this particular situation.

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Yep...

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Definitely headed back towards the hard stuff again...

Note the streamer...

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...in the lower right. Note also the Dragonfly in the upper left. Sure glad we're not still behind it being exposed to the danger of being on tow. And the safety of the towing operation has REALLY been increased for that bird. And after he lands, refuels, gets the glider hooked back up, and gives it another shot there's an equal likelihood that...

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...it will be again.

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The purpose of the Rooney Link is...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
Jim Rooney - 2011/08/26 02:44:10 UTC

The "purpose" of a weaklink is to increase the safety of the towing operation. PERIOD.
...to increase the safety of the towing operation - PERIOD. The most common hang gliding injury is...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=22176
Paragliding Collapses
Jim Rooney - 2011/06/12 13:57:58 UTC

Most common HG injury... spiral fracture of the humerus.
...the spiral fracture of the humerus - which is suffered virtually exclusively as a consequence of a...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26379
Landings
Jim Rooney - 2014/06/28 12:06:24 UTC

The danger here is that if you don't stall those tips... you're going for a very painful whack...
...Rooney Landing, but, remember, a Rooney Link...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
Jim Rooney - 2011/08/26 17:34:33 UTC

Remember, a weak link improves safety.
Say it over and over and over in your head until it sinks in.
...improves safety. Say it over and over and over in your head until it sinks in.

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This is REALLY what you wanna be doing during the most dangerous phase of the flight ('specially on a glider where - the vast majority of the time - you only get one shot and have little to no say on when it's gonna take place. Move your hands from the positions at which you have optimal control and safety margins to those at which you have total shit control and safety margins.

Now let's do the other hand...

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There! Got that one too!

The more closely I look at these videos the more I come to believe that the Rooney Landing in which a hand or two DOESN'T get hung up on a wire and/or wind up on the wrong side of a downtube is the rare exception.

OK, let's get this glider leveled and nail that flare...

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Close enough!

And this is OBVIOUSLY a Hang Four type flying a probably topless "landing" in brain dead easy conditions on the Aussie equivalent of the Bonneville (La Brea?) Salt Flats. Multiply that basic landing procedure by tens of thousands of flyers each parking gliders hundreds or thousands of times and what results are we expecting to get? Can anyone even begin to imagine the carnage we'd see if we had any comparable bullshit going on in REAL aviation?

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Tad Eareckson
Posts: 9161
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Re: Weak links

Post by Tad Eareckson »

Jump to next post:
http://www.kitestrings.org/post6230.html#p6230

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eY0uN8L5JnM
aerotow blown launch
parallaxax - 2013/06/15

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eY0uN8L5JnM


Pilot-induced oscillation
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Yes. Pilot Induced Oscillation.
Difficult not to be tempted to over control
Totally with ya, dude. A bit off to the right. Choices:
-a) undercontrol
-b) control just right
-c) overcontrol

Undercontrol... Where's the fun in that?
Control just right... Sounds like a plan.
Overcontrol... Sorry, just can't resist the temptation. Gotta go with "c".

Any thoughts on using a SAFE bridle? Comparable to what the tug's using? Just kidding.

http://www.wallaby.com/aerotow_primer.php
Aerotow Primer for Experienced Pilots
Wallaby Ranch - 2014/07/01

If you fail to maintain the correct tow position (centered, with the wheels of the tug on the horizon), the weak link will break before you can get into too much trouble.
Doesn't break in any of the above or:

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But:

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No problem! :)

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Tad Eareckson
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Re: Weak links

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5dhm3TnwIU
Breaking a weak link.
sexyhighheels - 2011/08/18

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5dhm3TnwIU
Yes Heels, it broke when it was supposed to and thereby increased the safety of the towing operation.

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- 01 - chronological order
- -0 - minutes
- 01 - seconds
- 06 - frame (30 fps)

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Nice positioning on your bent pin backup release. And I like the way it closes over that thick rope with no weak link on the end. Bobby's DEFINITELY a fucking genius when it comes to this shit.

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Brilliant configuration. If:
- you pry open the bent pin release and the bridle wraps you won't need another release because you have a weak link on the other side
- the weak link blows and the bridle wraps you won't need another weak link because you have a bent pin release on the other side

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Hold-downs free, coming out of the cart sans wheelie. Morningside must be using 914s.

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Cart dropping behind, safe to slam into the propwash at Mach 5 now. Almost no chance that your wings will be torn off now. (Did I tell you how much I liked the way you have that backup release positioned?)

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OK, that's about max pull-in. When you get a chance try moving the bar back like THIS:

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...so's you can start getting a feel for what things will be like when you graduate to pro towing. You can't keep flying with bar trimmed like THIS:

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for the rest of your career. If you're not constantly pushing your personal limits you're just gonna stagnate - and that's no fun for ANYONE.

These next four frames aren't terribly interesting by themselves and it's hard to see what's going on but they're a fair representation of what we're doing by way of reaction time on tow. We'll use this point:

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as zero for our stopwatch. At this next:

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1.13 seconds later, we've maxed out a bump correction to the left. And then here:

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we've burned up another 0.47 seconds maxing out a right bump correction. Then:

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back to center after another 0.3 seconds. Not really much of a test though. A REAL pilot can hit those sorts of times during a lockout with the release actuator within easy reach.

And we're all very familiar with the fishing line...

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...on the left shoulder. Obviously before Morningside decided they were happy with 200 and then deciding they weren't really happy with it after all.

The primary reason I pulled this one up was because I needed a good video representation of a fast onset lockout not attributable to back end incompetence or blatant equipment issues.
- Bob Buxton has the bridle routed over the basetube.
- MG thinks he's truck towing and oscillates his way into the lockout.
- Jamie Shelden gets oscillated into hers by a nasty bit o' turbulence.
- Ollie Chitty gets a wheel hung up on the cart.
- Several guys have no freakin' clues what one does to make gliders go left and right.
- A bunch of lockouts take all afternoon to develop.
- Ben Dunn is classic but:
-- he's flying one point
-- all we have are stills

Heels here looks like she's flying very competently, things don't look very thermally, she makes no mention of being hit and no effort to use anything. I'm pretty sure the lockout is a consequence of the tug pulling too hard and fast a left.

This frame:

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I'm calling as the onset of the lockout. Let's use it to zero the stopwatch. 1.23 seconds later...

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...she's about as left and angled as possible. Undoubtedly has a Quallaby Release lever velcroed within easy reach to the starboard downtube. ZERO mention of the release or consideration of using it and obviously no effort whatsoever made. The Rooney Link has one more frame left to live.

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Rooney Link has blown:

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2.83 seconds after onset.

Zack here - with a Tad-O-Link and a release that DOESN'T stink on ice goes from hand fixed:

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to release blown:

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(the release HAS been blown by that frame) in 0.23 seconds. That's less than a wee bit over eight percent of the time it took the Rooney Link to increase the safety of the towing operation. We can do over a dozen Street Release pulls...

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...while we're waiting for the Ryan Voight Instant Hands Free Release Image to kick in. But of course we hafta make the sacrifice of an unbelievably long track record.

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And here, a hair under nine seconds from the onset of a lockout that could've been nipped in the bud in under a quarter second...

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...with both hands on the basetube at all times we have full recovery - a whole lot lower than we were when we started and pointed in pretty much the opposite direction.

Good thing these things almost always happen way the hell up high, ain't it, Heels?
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: Weak links

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
Jim Rooney - 2011/08/28 10:40:24 UTC

Hi Tormod.
Oh, not at all.
I think what you're picking up on is my lack of willingness to discuss this with people that have already made up their minds.
Sorry for that, but it's just the nature of the beast.

I have no issue with discussing this with people that don't have an agenda.
I get very short with people that do however.

Am I "certain" about anything?
Nope.
Yeah, that tends to happen a lot to total douchebags with IQs in the low double digits totally incapable of understanding theory and totally reliant on the opinions other such total douchebags.
However, some things get real obvious when you're doing them all the time.
- I'da thunk that just one unhooked launch that put you and your passenger into the powerlines and you in the hospital for two and a half months would've made it real obvious that the hang check is a real bad idea and the hook-in check is a real good idea. But...

- Name one reality based item in this sport that can't be just as obvious to a halfway intelligent ten year old kid as one of you total fucking douchebags who does stuff all the time.
One is that weaklinks do in fact save people's asses.
But, strangely, we never seem to see any videos or hear any reports of this actually happening. Instead we see videos like THIS:

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and hear reports of Mike Haasses, Roy Messings, Steve Elliots, Lois Prestons, Ollie Chitties, John Claytors in which Rooney Links don't do shit.

But when an ass is ACTUALLY saved by equipment - parachute, drag chute, helmet, wheels, radio, cell phone, chopper - we tend to hear about it.

Or take the case of the launch dolly. Nobody ever credits it with saving a specific ass but it's so fucking obvious to everyone and his dog that the carnage it prevents is beyond description that one would be pretty universally regarded as certifiably insane for suggesting otherwise.

You've probably only seen one dangerous low level lockout in the course of your entire miserable existence. John Claytor, 2014/06/02, Ridgely, QUITE possibly behind you. Failing that, behind one of your asshole buddies. Seriously injured, Rooney Link didn't do shit, not a SINGLE comment.

This is the kind of shit you ACTUALLY see:

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- Way the fuck up high - ZERO possibility of anything bad happening.

- Usual piece of crap Industry Standard "release" within easy reach.

- Rapid progression lockout. Twice Rooney Link will blow a millisecond after once Rooney Link. Four times Rooney Link will blow a millisecond after twice Rooney Link.

- Heels doesn't make any effort to release because she:
-- has no need to
-- is better off flying the glider through the lockout than effecting the easy reach and getting tossed on her ear

So you log these as:
- muppets too clueless to release in lockouts
- asses saved by Rooney Links
- certain death with anything five pounds heavier than a Rooney Link

And, of course, you never inform Heels just how close she came to certain death so we never have the benefit of her input in the courses of any of these discussions.
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