http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31747
Lockout
michael170 - 2014/09/12 04:10:54 UTC
red,
I have tested the breaking strain of single and double loops of the two millimeter dacron leech line that I have. Installed on a short loop of the 900 lbs hollow braid line (same as the bridle in the photo) via a double lark's head at one end and a small carabiner at the other I get 262 lbs for a single and 511 for the double. The knots used to form the weak link loops were grapevine bends.
If or when I decide to do any more towing I'll have the double loop on the towline or the single on the bridle engaging the release.
peanuts,
You've got twenty-four hours to post the exact PM you sent me today here in this thread. If you choose not to do so then I will post it here.
Dennis Wood - 2014/09/12 04:21:42 UTC
feel free to do so. the evidence is quite clear when you know what to look at.
You mean like in the Zack Marzec fatality?
Tormod Helgesen - 2014/09/12 04:49:42 UTC
260lbs on aerotow? Are you kidding me?
No, that's EXACTLY what the Aerotow Industry has been telling everyone for decades that you get with a single loop of 130 pound Greenspot when you position the knot so that it's hidden from the main tension in the link. There was a fourteen page article in the magazine a couple years ago showing us how to do it - and I didn't hear you getting all bent out of shape about it.
I agree that a too weak weak-link is a issue...
So you're saying that Davis, Rooney, Trisa, Matt, Lauren... are full of shit?
...but in most cases it won't kill you.
Well then, I'm certainly OK with that. Just tons of relights and an assortment of minor crashes with a few serious ones sprinkled in.
A too strong one can drag you right into the ground.
Like this?:
http://ozreport.com/pub/images/fingerlakesaccident2.jpg
http://ozreport.com/pub/images/fingerlakesaccident3.jpg
Like the Rooney Links that dragged Steve Elliot and John Claytor into the ground? How 'bout the ones that dragged Mike Haas, Roy Messing, Lois Preston into fatal low level lockouts? Does it matter if the Rooney Link breaks or the pilot is able to pry himself off tow BEFORE the fatal impact? Doesn't he end up just as dead? How come there was no call for lighter weak links after any of these?
A additional safety measure is to use 2 barrel releases so that you can get rid of the bridle if it wraps around the towline.
Yeah...
01-001
04-200
07-300
10-307
15-413
Right.
michael170 - 2014/09/12 07:25:18 UTC
Tormod Helgesen - 2014/09/12 04:49:42 UTC
I agree that a too weak weak-link is a issue, but in most cases it won't kill you.
Kinda like Russian roulette?
A too strong one can drag you right into the ground.
If only there was a way to release the towline in an emergency situation, anybody here got any ideas on how that could be done?
Hook knife?
A additional safety measure is to use 2 barrel releases so that you can get rid of the bridle if it wraps around the towline.
Perhaps you could make the bridle a bit longer...
Shorter.
...then it would be incapable of wrapping on the towline.
Tormod Helgesen - 2014/09/12 08:35:57 UTC
michael170 - 2014/09/12 07:25:18 UTC
Perhaps you could make the bridle a bit longer, then it would be incapable of wrapping on the towline.
How would that help?
Ask Davis. He's really into long thin bridles with bulgy ends and assures us they don't wrap.
If only there was a way to release the towline in an emergency situation, anybody here got any ideas on how that could be done?
Stupid comment...
It wasn't a COMMENT - it was a QUESTION.
...we all use a releases in some way or form...
Virtually NONE of you douchebags use releases that can be blown in emergency situations.
25-32016
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5548/14306846174_185f09082e_o.png
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5530/14120804830_2aabd74d25_o.png
12-22509
In fact, if you DID use releases that could be blown in emergency situations the situations would never evolve into emergencies in the first place.
...the debate here is about redundancy...
A too light WEAK LINK which doesn't kill you in most cases is NOT a backup for a release that stinks on ice.
...and passive safety measures.
BULLSHIT.
Bill Bryden - 2000/02
Dennis Pagen informed me several years ago about an aerotow lockout that he experienced. One moment he was correcting a bit of alignment with the tug and the next moment he was nearly upside down. He was stunned at the rapidity. I have heard similar stories from two other aerotow pilots.
Tow launching hang gliders is DANGEROUS. Actions taken in fractions of seconds can make the difference between great flying day and death - just like in slope launching, which is even more dangerous. If you think you or anybody else has the luxury of waiting around for a piece of fishing line to decide to do the pilot's job for him then please shut the fuck up and find another hobby - asshole.
