You are NEVER hooked in.

General discussion about the sport of hang gliding
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: You are NEVER hooked in.

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31781
Another hang check lesson
W9GFO - 2014/09/26 22:03:45 UTC

So is the discussion of lift and tug a banning offense? I sure hope not.
It's a dictatorship with a total fuckin' sleazebag as a dictator. No pretense of rules or fairness. Anything Jack decides is a banning offense is a banning offense.
It would be a tragic thing to place a stigma on this hook in test.
What do you think USHGA's been doing since shortly after Bill Priday was killed at Whitwell on 2005/10/01 - nine years come Wednesday? I got banned by those Rocky Mountain total shits for pushing the hook in check message after Lenami was killed...

http://www.rmhpa.org/messageboard/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4258
HG accident in Vancouver

...and the motherfuckers deleted all my posts. (But don't worry:
http://www.kitestrings.org/post5453.html#p5453)
After all, it is performed right at the moment when the most people are watching the pilot.
Name some people who watch to make sure a hook-in check is being done. In every single FTHI incident we've ever had - from just embarrassing through fatal - zero.
If he or she feels that lifting and tugging for all to see allies them with something undesirable they may decide not to use this potentially life saving method.
2014/09/26 22:26:15 - 3 thumbs up - Brian Scharp
No...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=26996
Critique my radial ramp launch
Keith Skiles - 2012/08/28 04:43:23 UTC

Suppose I could do that, never hurts, but I always hang check with assistance prior to stepping on the ramp, and never leave my harness once I get in it.
michael170 - 2012/08/28 05:47:11 UTC

No, Michael means to kindly recommend compliance with USHPA regulations. Regulations that have been in place for thirty-one years.
Ryan Voight - 2012/08/28 06:14:06 UTC

What USHPA reg are you referencing specifically?

And no, in a thread titled "Critique my radial ramp launch" that video is also pretty much entirely off topic.

You want to discuss/debate/dictate people's pre-launch habits, great, just don't hijack someone else's thread about radial ramp technique.

Since this video starts with him on launch, we don't know if he did a hook-in check already, a hang check, a preflight, took a pee before putting his harness on, or drove a hybrid car to launch... Why are you critiquing what you don't know, didn't see, didn't ask about, and isn't what he asked for critique on??? WTF?
...shit.
---
Edit - 2014/09/27 14:55:00 UTC

I originally managed to miss the two posts at:

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31781
Another hang check lesson

Prior to:

Nic Welbourn - 2014/09/25 05:59:53

So while they were initially quoted and addressed in this post I just moved that material back two posts to maintain things in the proper chronological sequence.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: You are NEVER hooked in.

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31781
Another hang check lesson
michael170 - 2014/09/27 04:46:30 UTC
W9GFO - 2014/09/26 22:03:45 UTC

It would be a tragic thing to place a stigma on this hook in test.
Indeed! I often wonder if Lenami Godinez(-Avila) would be alive today if that thread had not been sent to the basement.
No, 'cause those north of the border shits are just as rabid about suppressing the hook-in check message as our home grown Voight/Rooney caliber shits - but its absence in their repertoire would be even more conspicuous.

Fuck you, Vancouver Sun.

Looks like we're now controlling the conversation on this issue, too.

Go ahead, Jack. Do something. Send THIS thread to The Basement. Lock it down. Delete some posts. Ban michael.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: You are NEVER hooked in.

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31781
Another hang check lesson
Tormod Helgesen - 2014/09/27 09:55:38 UTC
Oslo

I think you who advocate this (and that tight hangstrap launch method) is flying with old-style harnesses with multiple suspension points.
I flew with a single suspension pod. Never had the slightest problem.
Two points are located down at the hips and those is already almost tight when you stand up. The lift and tug isn't possible with a modern single strap harness, the hangstrap is up between the shoulders on launch. It's very difficult, hard and risky to lift the glider that high.
NOTHING is as risky as running off a ramp with a dangling carabiner.
It's better to go down on one knee and lean sideways until you feel the strap tightens.
And from that point on, assume you're hooked in.
HS, who came up with the idea...
A watered down hang check.
...have posted a pic once.
IF YOU'D BOTHERED TO READ THE FUCKIN' ARTICLE - which is also available at:

http://www.kitestrings.org/post2087.html#p2087

you'd have seen that I acknowledge that not everyone is capable of doing lift and tug with all glider/harness combos in all conditions and discuss workarounds.

Most of this deal is...
Rob Kells - 2005/12

My partners (Steve Pearson and Mike Meier) and I have over 25,000 hang glider flights between us and have managed (so far) to have hooked in every time. I also spoke with test pilots Ken Howells and Peter Swanson about their methods (another 5000 flights). Not one of us regularly uses either of the two most popular methods outlined above. Each of us agrees that it is not a particular method, but rather the fear of launching unhooked that makes us diligent to be sure we are hooked in every time before starting the launch run.
...FEAR - the loaded gun thing.

Nobody who was:
- afraid he might be unhooked
- in the presence of one single crewman, observer, witness who was afraid he might be unhooked
has ever launched unhooked.

Tell me how many of your countrymen are ever:
- afraid they or the people they're assisting or watching are about to launch unhooked
- looking for any kind of check or verification
within a couple of seconds of commitment.

Hey Tormod...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
Jim Rooney - 2011/08/28 10:15:12 UTC

Oh, in case it's not obvious (which it doesn't seem to be), once someone starts telling me what the "sole" purpose of a weaklink is, I tune them out as they have no clue what they're talking about.

Weaklinks are there to improve the safety of the towing operation, as I've stated before.

Any time someone starts in on this "sole purpose" bullshit, it's cuz they're arguing for stronger weaklinks cuz they're breaking them and are irritated by the inconvenience. I've heard it a million times and it's a load of shit. After they've formed their opinion, then they go in search of arguments that support their opinion.
Tormod Helgesen - 2011/08/28 10:21:06 UTC
Oslo

Jim, I don't agree with ridgerodent (and Tad is an idiot) and you are very experienced in towing so I won't try to teach you anything about that.
Wanna say anything to this crowd about what an idiot Tad is and/or talk about Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney's keen intellect?

Hey Jack...

Still got a pulse?
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: You are NEVER hooked in.

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31781
Another hang check lesson
Paul Hurless - 2014/09/27 17:48:14 UTC
Sparks, Nevada

It is very possible. I fly with a single strap harness (Moyes Contour) and I launch with a tight hang strap and I have always used the lift and tug method as I was taught to since my first flight.
By whom? I can document ZERO USHGA Instructors who have ever taught anything that complies with the USHGA regulation.
I also don't rest the down tubes on my shoulders so I don't have to let them slide up as I run.
It's just a matter of technique. How you hold the down tubes is what makes it possible for you or not.
Bullshit. For some pilot/glider/harness combos it's not practical.
Paul Hurless - 2014/09/27 17:54:15 UTC

Lift and tug, which was not invented by Tad...
Quote Tad or anybody else stating that it was. Read the fuckin' article:
By at least the late Seventies the independent thinkers had figured out how to completely eliminate the delay and confirm the existence of some sort of connection and leg loops engagement all with the same stone.
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=13359
Today was a bad day!
Tad Eareckson - 2009/09/16 17:48:46 UTC

I made a dozen parachute jumps in the early Seventies. Loved the part after the canopy was open and I got to fly but was scared pretty much shitless waiting for that to happen.

Hang gliders started hitting the scene not long after that and I always knew that was what I was gonna do but didn't get around to it until Easter weekend of 1980.
Does that sound like I'm claiming any credit for it?

Here's the earliest reference to it I can find:
Hang Gliding - 1977/10

During the Nationals two people forgot to hook up before flying. I was one of them. The one thing which made my failure to hook-up totally inexcusable is that I had a passenger with me.

My passenger and I had prepared to take off four times, including a static check the first time. Each time the wind died I unhooked while Cindy remained attached the glider. The last time we moved into position. I made sure she was hooked in, then I sat down next to her. We waited about five minutes, until the wind blew up the hill. We picked the glider up and I felt the tension of the harness, only it was the tension from her harness I felt, not mine. The take off run went great and airspeed picked up rapidly. By the time I realized something was wrong, Cindy was flying off a 900' hill on her first solo flight. As I watched in horror, she made a porpoising flight, a 180 degree turn, and then made a safe landing. She suffered a few scratches and the glider was undamaged.

I want to apologize to the people of Heavener, and everybody involved with the meet for almost leaving a horrible scar on the Nationals. I especially want to apologize to Cindy for taking her life into my hands and then committing such a careless error.

I used to say such a thing could never happen to me, but now I know it can happen to anybody. So everybody please be careful.

Name withheld by request
I didn't do my first dedicated lift and tug until the fall of 1980 when I was working as a dune instructor and another instructor tuned me in.
...isn't a banned subject.
It most assuredly is in anything that comes out of USHGA, HPAC, and the Vancouver Sun.
The psychopathic Tad...
THIS:

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31781
Another hang check lesson
Alan Deikman - 2014/09/23 19:47:06 UTC

Amazing how when this topic comes up every time you see people argue the same arguments over and over again. It has been a classic (although niche) endless Internet flame topic.

I suspect that some of the parties that have posted in threads like these before are refraining now since they have learned that it is nearly (completely?) impossible to change people's minds on the topic.

For my part I will just refer you to the classic Tad Eareckson essay which I call "the gun is always loaded" which is a bit overworked but probably all you will ever need to read regarding FTHI. A lot of people will find it gores their particular sacred Ox, but I have never seen anyone point out a flaw in his logic.
...psychopathic Tad?
...and his rants...
Like that one?
...are what's banned.
Here's what's banned:

http://www.hanggliding.org/wiki/HG_ORG_Mission_Statement
HG ORG Mission Statement - Hang Gliding Wiki
HangGliding.Org Rules and Policies

No posts or links about Bob K, Scott C Wise, Tad Eareckson and related people, or their material. ALL SUCH POSTS WILL BE IMMEDIATELY DELETED. These people are poison to this sport and are permanently banned from this site in every possible way imaginable.
MOTHERFUCKER. How very odd that the ban is very conspicuously not being enforced. Maybe you should make a public call to have something done about it.

I think there's a growing consensus that this sport needs a lot more psychopathic Tads and a lot fewer good ol' boy Pauls, Rooneys, Ryans, Davisses, and Jacks.

And while I'd never dream of claiming the slightest credit for instituting lift and tug I'll claim the crap out of instituting the "gun is always loaded" mindset which best explains why it works and is necessary and blows all the hang checker and Aussie Methodist douchebags...

11-A12819
http://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8339/28924980016_2ba1d20ef7_o.png
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http://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8253/28924975726_0d24a615c2_o.png
13-A14319

...out of the fuckin' water.

You don't like me 'cause I don't hesitate to call stupid rude pigfuckers such as yourself stupid rude pigfuckers. That ain't never gonna change. Get used to it.
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<BS>
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Re: You are NEVER hooked in.

Post by <BS> »

What did you do, cast aspersions on their asparagus?
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: You are NEVER hooked in.

Post by Tad Eareckson »

Constantly. What else is there in life - or hang gliding anyway?
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: You are NEVER hooked in.

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31781
Another hang check lesson
Paul Hurless - 2014/09/27 17:48:14 UTC

The psychopathic Tad and his rants are what's banned.
Another thing, Paul...

Over here at Psychopathic Tad's Hole In The Ground the Dark Lord of Trolls has a topic titled "You are NEVER hooked in." which deals with the unhooked launch issue. 677 posts, as of this one, with 30498 hits - a bit over 45 hits per post. Why do you think it is that that many people are reading Psychopathic Tad's Rants?
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: You are NEVER hooked in.

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31846
near incident leaving me at a crossroad
John Scott (Southside) - 2014/09/18 18:28:01 UTC
Los Angeles

I've had 5 "close calls" in my 30 year flying career.

1) Launched unhooked -- pulled myself into the control bar and then flew the glider to the ground..
2) Came in over the tree line getting ready to drop into the "Seizure" LZ at Telluride. The glider yawed instead of banked, putting me into the trees. Luckily I center punched an Apen and was able to bear hug it at impact preventing a stall and dive.
3) Landed in a football field that was surrounded by trees. Banked to go on final between the goal post and the trees when the bottom fell out. My instinctive reaction was to push out. For what ever reason the glider started flying again (but just about 3 ft above and along a chain linked fence) and I actually a nice landing.
4) Landed on a mountain road when I couldn't clear a ridge line to get to a proper LZ. To this day I don't know how I managed to avoid the surrounding trees.
5) Flew into the clouds, lost control of my glider, and opted to throw my reserve (perhaps you've seen the video).
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=28738
White-Out and Deployment

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JAVTy5xy0w
So what do these all have in common? Pilot error. I think if you study your incident and then come to the conclusion that it was caused by pilot error and not some force of nature, you might find it easier to move forward.
2014/09/22 18:47:03 - 3 thumbs up - Tim Dyer
John Scott - Los Angeles - 40307 - H4 - 1987/09/10 - Tom Truax - AT FL AWCL CL FSL RLF TUR XC
Hey John...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31781
Another hang check lesson

No comment or interest whatsoever?

Fuckin' astonishing that someone who's had an experience like that wouldn't be all over every FTHI discussion appearing on the web. Oh well, apparently the concept of a hook-in check is still just as totally alien for Jon Orders as it is for Industry Standards Expert Martin Henry.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: You are NEVER hooked in.

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=25963
Woman killed in B.C. hang gliding fall.
michael170 - 2014/04/29 02:31:51 UTC

http://www.vancouversun.com/travel/MulgrewFatalhangglidingcasehighlightsinsufficientcivilwrongfuldeathlaws/9785015/story.html
Ian Mulgrew: Fatal hang-gliding case highlights insufficient civil wrongful-death laws
Did this bullshit back at:
http://www.kitestrings.org/post5933.html#p5933
Dave Pendzick - 2014/09/30 09:06:45 UTC

Why are we bringing this up again?
1. "WE" aren't.

2. Yeah, this unhooked launch issue is HISTORY. That one was a really great wake-up call and now we're all really focused on hang checks, never getting into harnesses unless they're connected to gliders, checklists, The Five Cs, eliminating distractions, installing mirrors on noses and wings, Dan DeWeese "Hook In!" plaques, having good breakfasts, letting go of the glider instantly when there's no pull during the launch run, watching out for each other, staying in shape so's we can climb up into the control frame, practicing hanging from monkey bars with one hand while reaching for the parachute with the other...

11-A12819
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13-A14319
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5492/14666057035_1786a4e18c_o.jpg
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http://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5566/14704620965_ce30a874b7_o.png
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3. What else you fuckin' Jack Show douchebags got to talk about? The near fatal Steven Tinoson student AT lockout at Forbes over a week ago?

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31781
Another hang check lesson
Alan Deikman - 2014/09/23 19:47:06 UTC

Amazing how when this topic comes up every time you see people argue the same arguments over and over again. It has been a classic (although niche) endless Internet flame topic.

I suspect that some of the parties that have posted in threads like these before are refraining now since they have learned that it is nearly (completely?) impossible to change people's minds on the topic.

For my part I will just refer you to the classic Tad Eareckson essay which I call "the gun is always loaded" which is a bit overworked but probably all you will ever need to read regarding FTHI. A lot of people will find it gores their particular sacred Ox, but I have never seen anyone point out a flaw in his logic.
Paul Hurless - 2014/09/27 17:48:14 UTC

The psychopathic Tad and his rants are what's banned.
Is anybody gonna deal with Paul?

When people start TEACHING, DOING, LOOKING FOR, REQUIRING, ENFORCING hook-in checks this problem TOTALLY disappears. In other words, it will NEVER disappear.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: You are NEVER hooked in.

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=39362
Greens
Tom Lyon - 2014/09/29 20:57:41 UTC

The green on the leading edge of my Falcon 4 in the attached photo is Bright Lime

http://ozreport.com/forum/files/bright_lime_669.jpg
Image
Yet another Lockout Mountain Flight Park / Davis Show / Ryan Instant-Hands-Free-Release Voight / Steve Exceptionally-Knowledgeable Wendt / Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney hook-in check.
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