landing

General discussion about the sport of hang gliding
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: landing

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.dailyunion.com/news/article_3186ac10-4975-11e4-ad71-001a4bcf6878.html
Cold Spring hang-gliding crash claims Minnesotan - Daily Jefferson County Union: News
Cold Spring hang-gliding crash claims Minnesotan

Ryan Whisner, Union regional editor
2014/10/01 09:14 | Updated: 2014/10/02 08:48

COLD SPRING - A 57-year-old Minnesota man was killed in a hang-gliding accident in the Town of Cold Spring Monday.
Joseph Julik of Taylors Falls, Minn., reportedly was a 20-year veteran hang-glider who had par­ticipated in the sport across the country.
Are you sure about that? Have you got the right guy? There doesn't seem to be any trace of a Joseph Julik in the USHGA Member Directory.
Jefferson County Coroner Patrick Theder said Julik died at the scene from blunt force head trauma.
This is why it's IMPERATIVE that you rotate to upright, people. Get those legs between the ground and the stuff that really matters!
According to Jefferson County Sheriff's Office Chief Deputy Jeff Parker, Julik had been in Whitewater with a friend since Friday and the pair had been hang gliding for the past several days from Gutzmer's Twin Oaks Airport along County Highway N in the Town of Cold Spring north of Whitewater.
The airport is home to the Whitewater Hang Gliding Club, Danny's Drag 'N Fly Aerotowing and the Wisconsin Hang Gliding School.
EXCELLENT school...

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Solid training by top notch instructors.

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State of the art equipment.

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Releases within easy reach.

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Highly experienced tow operators.

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Weak links that break before you can get into too much trouble.

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Controlled teaching/learning environment so that the student can progress at a comfortable rate and get instant feedback on issues needing improvement.
From the airport, gliders are towed into the air by being connected to an ultralight aircraft called a Dragonfly, piloted by Danny Lange.
Flying, of course, in full compliance with FAA aerotowing regulations.
Lange, who has served as the full-time tug pilot for the past three years, said Julik and his friend visited Whitewater about two or three times a year, as it is one of the only hang-glider tow sites in the upper Midwest.
And, of course, the best!
"If they are going to fly hang gliders in the Midwest, they've got to come here," he said.
Yeah, tell me about it.
Julik recently had been to Colorado and regularly made plans to spend time flying out of the airport in Whitewater.
Chief Deputy Parker said that on Monday just before noon, Julik's hang glider was towed to about 2,000 feet and released.
Seeing as how he had no safe and reliable means of releasing himself?
"He spent about 10 minutes gliding...
So it was a total sled run. No thermal activity. Bummer.
...and was in the process of landing," the chief said.
What was involved in the process of landing? I thought I heard something about...

http://www.rmhpa.org/messageboard/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5545
"Jedi" Joe Julik - Gone But Never Forgotten
Tiffany Smith - 2014/09/30 15:28

Sunday night he made a deal to purchase a Topless glider.....he was landing his first flight on it Monday morning when he stalled after transition and couldn't recover....landed hard.
...a "transition". What's that all about? How's it work? What's it for?
At about 100 feet, Julik's glider caught a wind...
Wing.
...shear, which caused the glider to pitch to one side...
Yeah, I've heard about those wing shears. Nasty business can cause your glider to pitch to one side - where normally it would ROLL to one side. Really disorienting.
...and take a nosedive.
And then there's the nosedive it takes. Much worse than a taildive because you're coming down headfirst.
That led to the aircraft violently overturning, driving the pilot into the ground.
Yeah, that's the problem with nosedives. They often lead to the aircraft violently overturning, driving the pilot into the ground. That's why I always push out hard when I'm in a nosedive. Lessens the chances that my aircraft will be violently overturned and me be driven into the ground.
"One of our guys out here loves to say, 'if we could see the wind, we would probably never fly," Lange said.
God fuckin' damn RIGHT! If we could see that early afternoon air blasting up and sucking all those Turkey Vultures up with it we'd pack up our gliders, drive back home and THANK GOD that we weren't up there rolling dice that we weren't gonna get hit by one of those wing shears.
"In this particular case, it would have been nice to see that because it didn't matter what your skill level was, when you get into something that can toss you around like a leaf, it's pretty sad."
Nah, Joe didn't have a PRAYER. None of us would have. Nuthin' you can do when you encounter wing shear at a hundred feet.
The chief said the left wingtip of the Julik's glider struck the end of another glider tethered to the ground in the crash.
But he was already upside down before that point so what did it really matter?
Julik was wearing a helmet at the time of the crash.
One of those salad bowls on strings like Robin Strid was wearing? Damn! If only he'd had a better helmet or rotated upright before he got hit by the wing shear.
Jefferson County deputies, Whitewater EMS, Fort Memorial Hospital paramedics and the Flight for Life helicopter from Milwaukee responded to the scene.
Why? Wasn't he pretty solidly and obviously dead at that point?
Parker said resuscitation attempts on the scene failed and Julik was pronounced dead at the scene by the Jefferson County Coroner's Office.
No shit.
Julik's death marked the second fatal incident that could be recalled as having occurred at Twin Oaks in its more than two decades of operation.
What? There's other ones we may not be able to recall very well?
The prior incident is believed to have occurred around 2009...
Oh...

http://forum.hanggliding.org/download/file.php?id=11565
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http://forum.hanggliding.org/download/file.php?id=11566

You kill one of your aerotow students and all you have is some vague recollection that it happened somewhere around 2009.
...and involved a hang glider getting into a similar situation as Julik, only at the beginning of his flight as it was being towed.
Yeah, that wing shear will get ya - coming down or...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17166
Accident at Whitewater 2009
Davis Straub - 2009/09/01 19:09:48 UTC

An eye witness reports:
Conditions: 9am local time, 55°F., sunny and clear, with little or no wind.
...going up.
"In three years that I've been operating the tow plane, we've had more than 3,500 flights," Lange said.
Can you recall any non fatal wing shear incidents from that period?
Prior to that, there has been aerotowing at Twin Oaks Airport for more than two decades.
"Not that two fatalities is something to be proud of, but it is still one of the safest sports that there is," Lange said.
Yeah, right.
He noted that glider pilots do wear parachutes when flying. However, Lange said, they are generally considered beneficial in only two circumstances, one being failed aerobatics and glider collapses...
Hang gliders don't COLLAPSE. They BREAK.
...because of extreme loads and the other being a mid-air collision.
Yeah, wing shear on landing and takeoff. Let's talk about parachutes. Ocean liner hits an iceberg, let's talk about shark repellent.
"We have never had either one of those options occur here," Lange said.
See above.
"Occasionally something happens, the wind changes, switches, turns, rotates, and if you happen to be unfortunate enough to be right there ...," Lange said.
With your hands on the downtubes at shoulder or ear height where you can't control the glider...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27086
Steve Pearson on landings
Steve Pearson - 2012/03/28 23:26:05 UTC

I can't control the glider in strong air with my hands at shoulder or ear height and I'd rather land on my belly with my hands on the basetube than get turned downwind.
...and are highly likely to get turned downwind if you get hit by some shit.
"Even airlines run into severe turbulence sometimes.
Yeah, our takeoff and landing crash rates are similar to theirs.
"Motorists come across slick spots on roadways," he continued.
Yeah, nuthin' really you can do about that either.
"You can probably stay safe in bed.
Or play checkers with flat sackers like T** at K*** S****** but that's little - if any - better than sudden death anyway.
As far as aviation goes, there is a quote on many airport wall that states, 'Aviation in itself is not inherently dangerous. But to an even greater degree than the sea, it is terribly unforgiving of any carelessness, incapacity or neglect.'"
But why is that the slightest bit relevant here? There was OBVIOUSLY no carelessness, incapacity, or neglect. 20-year veteran hang glider who'd par­ticipated in the sport across the country. I thought you said that it doesn't matter what your skill level is when you get into something like that that can toss you around like a leaf. This guy sounded like one of the best of the best. Flying a topless glider, probably pro towing and using one of those two hundred pound weak links that many of us are happy with now. Undoubtedly been at an around all this plenty long enough to understand what's what and who's who.
Lange said that in this case, it was the unseen, but aptly named, dust devil that was to blame.
An aptly named INVISIBLE dust devil. A dust devil without the dust. Those have been a real problem the past couple years. They NEVER seem to have any dust in them. We should probably start calling them air devils. (I know I will fer sure.)

So he went up to two grand and just sledded back down without hitting a single bump to extend the flight but at a hundred feet while still flying prone with both hands on the basetube he suffered air devil induced wing shear, pitched, took a nosedive, violently overturned, and got driven into the ground.

And there was no warning of this air devil that could be detected by the twenty year veteran who was doing everything right or anybody on the ground. The windsock was pointing normally, the tethered glider that he crashed into...

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...wasn't getting bounced around?
While other hang-gliders and Lange mourned Julik's death Monday, they were flying again by Tuesday.
GREAT! A day of mourning, day of flying in celebration of Jedi Joe's life, and by Thursday we've gotten another bullshit air devil story out to the press. That's two days off of Paul Tjaden's time to put out his air devil report! Be honest with me now... Did you already have a generic air devil fatality report on the hard drive so's all you needed to do was fill in a name and tweak the details a bit?
"Having an incident like that doesn't change the overall nature of the sport," Lange said. "For everyone, it gives us some pause and we reflect on the reasons we do this and why we do it, but for us, that love flying, it is not going to make us stop."
FUCK NO! No faggots in hang gliding!

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=27396
Scooter tow faillure... or Never Land On Your Face
Mitch Shipley - 2012/10/22 19:04:16 UTC

We engage in a sport that has risk and that is part of the attraction.
We engage in a sport that has risk and that is part of the attraction!

Keep it up, motherfucker. You keep getting away with outrageous bullshit fiction like this and every time you see if you can get away with even more outrageous bullshit fiction but there inevitably comes a point at which the Ponzi scheme collapses.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: landing

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=39421
Accident at Whitewater
Bille Floyd - 2014/10/03 16:06:55 UTC

Is this the first death on a HG, for 2014 , (in the USA) ?
Davis Straub - 2014/10/03 16:10:59 UTC

Yes.
How 'bout Eric Mies? You've either gotta count him for 2011/05/20 or somewhere around 2014/08/23.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: landing

Post by Tad Eareckson »

Daniel Lange - Wisconsin - 90526 - H3 - 2014/03/21 - Christian Thoreson - AT FL CL FSL
Hey Danny...
Christian Thoreson - 2004/10

Thus wheel landings, the safest and easiest way to consistently land a hang glider...
Was that the way Joe was landing? Seems to me with all that air devil and wing shear action going on you'd want as much going for you...

http://www.rmhpa.org/messageboard/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5545
"Jedi" Joe Julik - Gone But Never Forgotten
Tiffany Smith - 2014/09/30 15:28

Sunday night he made a deal to purchase a Topless glider.....he was landing his first flight on it Monday morning when he stalled after transition and couldn't recover....landed hard.
...as possible.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: landing

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.dailyunion.com/news/article_3186ac10-4975-11e4-ad71-001a4bcf6878.html
Cold Spring hang-gliding crash claims Minnesotan - Daily Jefferson County Union: News

We teach you how to land safely. Upright, on your feet, early high transitions, long straight finals...

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http://www.rmhpa.org/messageboard/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5545
"Jedi" Joe Julik - Gone But Never Forgotten
Tiffany Smith - 2014/09/30 15:28

Sunday night he made a deal to purchase a Topless glider.....he was landing his first flight on it Monday morning when he stalled after transition and couldn't recover....landed hard.
Therefore Joe wasn't killed because he stalled after transition and couldn't recover. He was killed because...
At about 100 feet, Julik's glider caught a wind shear, which caused the glider to pitch to one side and take a nosedive. That led to the aircraft violently overturning, driving the pilot into the ground.

"One of our guys out here loves to say, 'if we could see the wind, we would probably never fly," Lange said. "In this particular case, it would have been nice to see that because it didn't matter what your skill level was, when you get into something that can toss you around like a leaf, it's pretty sad."

The chief said the left wingtip of the Julik's glider struck the end of another glider tethered to the ground in the crash.
Lange said that in this case, it was the unseen, but aptly named, dust devil that was to blame.
...wind shear...nosedive...violently overturning...this particular case...didn't matter what your skill level was...can toss you around like a leaf...dust devil...
From the airport, gliders are towed into the air by being connected to an ultralight aircraft called a Dragonfly, piloted by Danny Lange.

Lange, who has served as the full-time tug pilot for the past three years, said Julik and his friend visited Whitewater about two or three times a year, as it is one of the only hang-glider tow sites in the upper Midwest.

"If they are going to fly hang gliders in the Midwest, they've got to come here," he said.
If you fly here and wanna keep flying here or if you think you might ever wanna visit or move into the area and fly here Joe died because he got hit by an air devil. It's a somewhat risky sport and sometimes shit just happens but we do it because we love it.
"In three years that I've been operating the tow plane, we've had more than 3,500 flights," Lange said.
So if you make fifty flights with us your chances of being killed in this manner are only about one in seventy. Pretty fuckin' good compared to Russian roulette.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: landing

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31884
Sad Loss to the Entire Free-Flight Community
Goddam right, Jonathan. A shitload of sad losses... intelligence, competence, integrity, decency, respect for freedom of speech, minority perspectives, abilities to learn from catastrophes and eliminate crappy procedures and equipment, control of the sport...

This twenty year pilot who was the greatest thing since sliced bread gets killed because he does something off the scale stupid...
Manned Kiting
The Basic Handbook of Tow Launched Hang Gliding
Daniel F. Poynter
1974

"Never take your hands off the bar." - Tom Peghiny
http://www.rmhpa.org/messageboard/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5545
"Jedi" Joe Julik - Gone But Never Forgotten
Tiffany Smith - 2014/09/30 15:28

Sunday night he made a deal to purchase a Topless glider.....he was landing his first flight on it Monday morning when he stalled after transition and couldn't recover....landed hard.
...that, like the hang check, Aussie Method, Rooney Link hang gliding culture shoves down everyone's throat as a safety enhancement, in choppy air at a hundred feet and finishes his career in a harmless downwind stall.

Within three days of impact the Whitewater twats have fabricated a piece of fiction very loosely based on the actual incident and gotten it put out in the local media. Sometimes shit just happens in hang gliding - nuthin' we can really do about it. If we're gonna enjoy flying we've just gotta accept that we're gonna kill one of our buddies about once every five thousand flights or so. God's will. If we don't maintain that fatality rate we'll piss him off and the sun will stop rising.

No reaction whatsoever. And I was still naive/stupid enough to be bracing for the firestorm I was sure that article would touch off.

Hang gliding is no longer any pretense of a branch of aviation - or even of a sport. It's just another moronic dollar based religious cult.

P.S. And I'm guessing the Patron Saint of Landings is totally cool with the Whitewash Hang Gliding ® account of the incident. I notice he hasn't posted any two centses in any of the venues still open to him. On flare timing issues - really good! On not getting turned around and dumped and having one's head smashed in - not so much.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: landing

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31904
Lots of interesting landings in this vid!
Garrett Speeter - 2014/10/05 06:41:41 UTC
Fairbanks

Not my video, I just found this surfing the web.
Not sure what to say.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfOgPyXnzoo
michael170 - 2014/10/05 07:37:12 UTC

Bit of a problem releasing the tow rope at 2:46 I'd say. Probably just had too much pressure on it.
It actually had too LITTLE pressure on it. Truck stops at the end of the runway, glider stays on to max out the climb, line slackens, not enough pull to overcome the friction and stiffness of the three-string, gotta jerk it a few times to make it let go. Pretty routine, nuthin' to really worry about in platform.
Perhaps a weaker bit of fishing string on the tow rope is in order there.
2014/10/05 07:39:46 UTC - Sink This! -- Paul Hurless
But let's see how long it takes one of these Jack Show douchebags to point that out.
AndRand - 2014/10/05 12:30:27 UTC
Poland

Slow approach always looks to me like one step from disaster.
Oh really?

http://www.rmhpa.org/messageboard/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5545
"Jedi" Joe Julik - Gone But Never Forgotten
Tiffany Smith - 2014/09/30 15:28

Sunday night he made a deal to purchase a Topless glider.....he was landing his first flight on it Monday morning when he stalled after transition and couldn't recover....landed hard.
So would a little turbulence...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27086
Steve Pearson on landings
Steve Pearson - 2012/03/28 23:26:05 UTC

I can't control the glider in strong air with my hands at shoulder or ear height and I'd rather land on my belly with my hands on the basetube than get turned downwind.
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31884
Sad Loss to the Entire Free-Flight Community
Chico_MON - 2014/10/01 01:19:01 UTC
Racine

Prefrontal gusts may have also contributed to test flying. I was not there Monday. Flew with Joe Friday through Sunday. We thermaled together, bbqued, laughed.
Tiberiu Szollosi - 2014/10/01 01:30:19 UTC

Well said Chico, the prefrontal gusts were present without a question and contributing factor.
...be a good candidate for that one step? Or do we need to throw in a load of bullshit about wind shear and air devils and say that this is an inherently dangerous sport and sometimes shit just happens and there's nothing we can do about it?
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: landing

Post by Tad Eareckson »

Something major from this lying motherfucker...

http://www.dailyunion.com/news/article_3186ac10-4975-11e4-ad71-001a4bcf6878.html
Cold Spring hang-gliding crash claims Minnesotan - Daily Jefferson County Union: News
Cold Spring hang-gliding crash claims Minnesotan

Ryan Whisner, Union regional editor
2014/10/01 09:14 | Updated: 2014/10/02 08:48

COLD SPRING - A 57-year-old Minnesota man was killed in a hang-gliding accident in the Town of Cold Spring Monday.

At about 100 feet, Julik's glider caught a wind shear, which caused the glider to pitch to one side and take a nosedive. That led to the aircraft violently overturning, driving the pilot into the ground.

"One of our guys out here loves to say, 'if we could see the wind, we would probably never fly," Lange said. "In this particular case, it would have been nice to see that because it didn't matter what your skill level was, when you get into something that can toss you around like a leaf, it's pretty sad."

Julik's death marked the second fatal incident that could be recalled as having occurred at Twin Oaks in its more than two decades of operation.

The prior incident is believed to have occurred around 2009 and involved a hang glider getting into a similar situation as Julik, only at the beginning of his flight as it was being towed.

"Occasionally something happens, the wind changes, switches, turns, rotates, and if you happen to be unfortunate enough to be right there ...," Lange said. "Even airlines run into severe turbulence sometimes.

Lange said that in this case, it was the unseen, but aptly named, dust devil that was to blame.

While other hang-gliders and Lange mourned Julik's death Monday, they were flying again by Tuesday.

"Having an incident like that doesn't change the overall nature of the sport," Lange said. "For everyone, it gives us some pause and we reflect on the reasons we do this and why we do it, but for us, that love flying, it is not going to make us stop."
...I didn't really pick up on before...
"One of our guys out here loves to say, 'if we could see the wind, we would probably never fly," Lange said. "In this particular case, it would have been nice to see that because it didn't matter what your skill level was, when you get into something that can toss you around like a leaf, it's pretty sad."
Then after more pulling whatever he finds in his ass out and feeding it to the reporter...
Lange said that in this case, it was the unseen, but aptly named, dust devil that was to blame.
...he names one of the kinds of wind we CAN see. I mentally inserted the Paul Tjaden bullshit about invisibility 'cause it just naturally follows in that sequence of lies. But he doesn't even bother.

It would have been nice if this twenty year veteran pilot had been able to see this wind that was about to toss him around like a leaf because he would have been able to avoid it but he saw it clearly and flew into it anyway and was tossed around like a leaf and killed on impact.

A DUST devil is - BY...
a small whirlwind or air vortex over land, visible as a column of dust and debris.
...DEFINITION - wind that we can SEE.

Douchebags in this sport are always bitching about how hand gliders always being portrayed in the media and perceived by the public as dangerous nut cases who jump off mountains or get pulled up by ropes, have no control over their wings, and gamble that the wind will blow them somewhere safe to come down. But whenever somebody they can't portray as an incompetent idiot buys the farm they tell the press and public that sometimes after they jump off mountains or get pulled up by ropes the wind will blow them in unfavorable directions and manners and there's nothing they can do to affect the outcome.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: landing

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31821
Potential for back injury?
Steve Corbin - 2014/10/04 08:41:11 UTC
Crestline

I have T6 thru T10 fused with Herrington rods reinforcing the area.

I ALWAYS get help with loading/unloading the kite and even carrying it to and from the truck.

I land on wheels almost always, but I do practice full-flare foot landings on occasion, just to stay in practice in the event I land out in a place where wheels won't roll.
How are you more likely to get seriously injured?
- Having had to land out in a place where wheels won't roll while being out of practice for full-flare foot landings?
- Practicing full-flare foot landings on occasion, just to stay in practice in the event you land out in a place where wheels won't roll?
Sometimes while flying, when glide angle isn't a "must have", I'll go to a somewhat upright body position to give my neck a rest. At thermalling speeds the extra drag is minimal, and the relief is maximal, when assuming this position.
What body position do you go to for dealing with wind shear and dust devils?

Tell us about the last flight you had after which you said, "Damn! Sure is a good thing I stayed in practice with full-flare foot landings so I could safely land out in a place where wheels won't roll.
The hang gliding crowd consists of some of the best folks in the world, they will do practically anything to help you fly, you just pay it forward and watch the blessings flow.
Fer sure. And when the worst pieces of shit in the world posts something like:

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=39347
Please explain yourself without deleting me
Orion Price - 2014/10/01 00:15:56 UTC

The problem with tad:

1. He's been writing the FAA trying to get aero-tow governmently regulated according to his protocol. If you chance upon his faux scholarly-ish article about areo tow safety you will see a window into the mind of a mad man. It's like 80 pages of ASCII text drawings of his Rube Goldberg designs. He's been mailing, and emailing his article to government agencies. I'm sure his communications get filed along with alien sightings, crop circles, and perpetual motion machines the FAA receives from other crackpots. Still weird behavior.

2. He open and notoriously taunts the families of dead pilots. This is seriously low. If you think that only someone without balls could do such a thing, then you'd be right. He literally has no testicles. He had them surgically removed. Ask him about it, he'll tell you about life walking around with a flat sack. Low T, it's just a number.

3. A chance to defend himself? Do the dead pilots he lampoons get to defend themselves? Does anyone on his own forum get to defend themselves? Both are a no. He bans most everyone on his forum. It's a PHPBB forum just like ozreport is, so it looks and feels similar. However all the posts are by one person. He'll take a silly single thread from hanggling.org and write a 20 page treatise covering every post and reply with his opinion on it. It's a seriously time consuming endeavor he's on.
...you can rest assured that scores of those really great folk populating the sport will fact check his allegations, call him on them, and deal with him appropriately. It's an astoundingly wonderful community with which we're blessed.
Come on and join the fun!
And make damn sure you don't rock anybody's garbage scows.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: landing

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31921
25 Miles to the Beach - A Cautionary Tale
NMERider - 2014/10/08 15:15:40 UTC

Watch and read all the captions.
What? You want Jack Show people to READ?! Good freakin' luck. I never got anywhere with asking them to just look at the pictures.
Several lessons to be gotten from this flight.
Any lessons to be learned from Joe Julik's last flight? If we could see the air we'd never fly in it? Sometimes shit just happens and there's not a goddam thing we can do about it? If you're not OK with our story on this one then find some other place within a five hundred mile radius to fly?
25 Miles to the Beach
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuYrX0LEW-s
quae alte volant - 2014/10/07
dead
Nate Wreyford - 2014/10/08 15:27:54 UTC

I hate bailouts named Hillside Park. I like bailouts named HugeGrassyField Park, etc!!
Yeah.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=12587
weak links (here we go)
Jack Axaopoulos - 2009/06/25 13:53:48 UTC

Sorry... but only flying at flight parks with perfectly flat green LZs and only flying with wheels, and only landing on my wheels, and only at said flight park, is not my, or many peoples idea of hang gliding.
Sounds to me like it actually is, Jack. Any comments on the Joe Julik fatality ten days ago?
NMERider - 2014/10/08 18:02:12 UTC

Prevailing Wind

It is vital to be able to safely perform a nil or downwind landing on terrain that is difficult to run on if wide open X/C is the goal.
*IF* *WIDE OPEN* XC is the goal - the way virtually all Day One, Flight One instructors determine it will be for all students.

So what percentage of the people who engage in this sport actually have that as a goal? 0.1? 0.2?
It doesn't need to look showy.
Like this?:

http://forum.hanggliding.org/download/file.php?id=18967
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It needs to be safe.
Like this?:

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Or even these?:

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I don't mean to get on a soapbox...
Yeah ya do. Anybody who feels he has something worth saying and being listened to means to get on a soapbox. And...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
Jim Rooney - 2011/08/26 08:24:31 UTC

And I'm not so arrogant to think that my precious little ideas are going to magically revolutionise the industry.
There are far smarter people than me working this out.
I know, I've worked with them.
(Bobby's a fucking genius when it comes to this shit... for example.)
...fuck anybody who runs his mouth without having anything of any substance to say.
...but showy landing can lead to serious injuries if executed improperly on unforgiving terrain.
How 'bout forgiving terrain?

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How many people have we injured, crippled, quaded, killed out of the sport teaching, encouraging, forcing them to do showy landings on wide fucking open putting greens so they can land safely in the kind of crap you fly over all the time?
This is why I emphasize the preparation to go into a deep knee bend and also let the glider contact the terrain if necessary.
Even for people who've read the Epistles of the Patron Saint of Landing...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26379
Landings

...and perfected their flare timing?
Not pretty but safe.
So you're saying that showy landings, which is what 99 percent of our training is geared for, are inherently dangerous, 'specially where and when they're "needed". Right?
Just an FYI to pilots considering flying into terra incognita.
Any chance we can fly into terra incognita, always keep a wide open putting green in range, bail and roll into one if when we run out of safe options, and have great flying experiences and careers? Don't all sailplanes operate along those lines?
mrcc - 2014/10/08 20:20:47 UTC
Auckland

Your videos are getting more exciting all the time.
Keep it up.
Not too exciting.
Tormod Helgesen - 2014/10/09 05:36:59 UTC

I bet that was exiting...
That's what it was, alright. One big exercise in getting out.
...but you've been in deeper dodo before:

The Long, Low Glide Out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNYWlVQj2eU
Glide On - 2013/12/10
dead
Definitely some deep dodo...

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And we all know what happened to them.
Your videos is getting shorter and therefore better for my impatient viewing habits Image
Five-year-old attention span.
Craig Pirazzi - 2014/10/09 05:40:13 UTC
Telluride

Adventure is where you make it, thanks for sharing yours J D.
adventure - an unusual and exciting, typically hazardous, experience or activity
NMERider - 2014/10/09 05:46:58 UTC
Tormod Helgesen - 2014/10/09 05:36:59 UTC

I bet that was exiting, but you've been in deeper dodo before...
That 7-mile glide out was pretty high stress.
These glides out are pretty fuckin' stressful just to watch. These are thin safety margins - way thinner than one can have going into and engaging in aerobatics - and that kind of flying is not anything your average glider person should be geared or encouraged to pursue.

Good thing you didn't get hit by any of that wind shear they have up at the Whitewater LZ. You'd have been killed ten times as quickly and badly as Joe was.
User avatar
Tad Eareckson
Posts: 9161
Joined: 2010/11/25 03:48:55 UTC

Re: landing

Post by Tad Eareckson »

This one:

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=763
Dust Devils (Yuch!)

pulled out of mothballs by Janica Lee three days ago and this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXBogVV31Y4


posted the next and being discussed. And just ten days ago we had a Sad Loss to the Entire Free-Flight Community - Joe Julik tossed around like a leaf and snuffed by a dust devil at Whitewater. Totally overpowered, nothing he could've done, would've happened to anyone, only US fatal crash so far for 2014, second such fatality at that flight park in the span of five years. And we also had that Sad Loss to the Entire Free-Flight Community when Zack Marzec was killed by a dust devil (which happily left his Dragonfly driver totally unscathed and unfazed) taking off at Quest just a bit over twenty months ago.

And yet there is NO DISCUSSION WHATSOEVER about this deadly epidemic threat to launching and landing hang gliders.

WAKE THE FUCK UP, PEOPLE! We need to come up with some means of making these dust devils visible so we can keep our gliders grounded whenever they're around - and we need to do it NOW! Think of the children!

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