instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3665
I'm outta here

Jim Rooney - 2008/12/11 17:28:03 UTC

Head over to hanggliding.org if you would like to see how a forum should be run.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=22212
So long guys

Jack Axaopoulos - 2011/06/12 18:20:06 UTC

Have we had enough threads started about paragliding on this HG forum yet????

Ill never understand why people have to start threads they know are going to cause the same old heated debate that comes up far too often, yet they continue to do it.

Cant we all just agree to stop the pg talk? it doesnt belong here.
This is an HG specific site, not biwingal. There is a paragliding specific forum available too.

Now this I dont get:
Youre supposed to hate yourself? Thats what people say here?
Youre trying to ruin our sport? Thats what people think here?
Bile? Anyone who doesnt agree with you spews bile now?

Sorry Jim... havent seen anyone say anything like the above. Can you quote it?
You seem to perceive anyone who disagrees with you as a hater of pg, simply nonsense. We just disagree. I dont think pg piltos who disagree with me hate hang gliding.

Like ive told others... if you want to go... just go. You dont get a free parting cheap shot at the community to tell us how much we suck. Sorry... no free attack on us while you exit.

Well I see now that you are threatening to delete your account in a PM if I dont delete it for you, which I can only assume means youre going to do what a certain other poster did and start vandalizing and deleting posts, so you force my hand... account banned so you cant vandalize. Well this truly sucks. Threatening to damage the site just because you got pissed off is really messed up dude. You need to seriously chill out.

Accounts cant be deleted. It screws all the threads up. Sorry, I cant let you just start trashing the place, which is your intent.

You could have simply said, so long guys, not enjoying it here anymore, instead of trashing us and threatening to damage the forum, which is why you are in the basement now. A gentlemens farewell would not be in the basement.

If you wish to lunge even more profanity at me, email me directly.

http://www.hanggliding.org/wiki/HG_ORG_Mission_Statement
HG ORG Mission Statement - Hang Gliding Wiki

HangGliding.Org Rules and Policies

No posts or links about Bob K, Scott C Wise, Tad Eareckson and related people, or their material. ALL SUCH POSTS WILL BE IMMEDIATELY DELETED. These people are poison to this sport and are permanently banned from this site in every possible way imaginable.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31781
Another hang check lesson

Alan Deikman - 2014/09/23 19:47:06 UTC

Amazing how when this topic comes up every time you see people argue the same arguments over and over again. It has been a classic (although niche) endless Internet flame topic.

I suspect that some of the parties that have posted in threads like these before are refraining now since they have learned that it is nearly (completely?) impossible to change people's minds on the topic.

For my part I will just refer you to the classic Tad Eareckson essay which I call "the gun is always loaded" which is a bit overworked but probably all you will ever need to read regarding FTHI. A lot of people will find it gores their particular sacred Ox, but I have never seen anyone point out a flaw in his logic.

The Press - 2006/03/15

The Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) is urgently pushing for new hang-gliding industry standards after learning a hang-gliding pilot who suffered serious injuries in a crash three weeks ago had not clipped himself on to the glider.

Extreme Air tandem gliding pilot James (Jim) Rooney safely clipped his passenger into the glider before departing from the Coronet Peak launch site, near Queenstown, CAA sports and recreation manager Rex Kenny said yesterday.

However, he took off without attaching himself.

In a video, he was seen to hold on to the glider for about fifty meters before hitting power lines.

Rooney and the passenger fell about fifteen meters to the ground.

My question is this... is this a bar room or a community forum?

It's a fuckin' Sunday school. Lotsa very nice (read nasty) stupid people who never use naughty words all swallowing whatever moronic crap is fed them by any authority figure and enforcing it on anybody within rifle range.

Cuz right now, it's a bar.

Gimme a bar any day of the week. We used to have all of our glider club meetings at a bar in College Park and I remember a few halfway intelligent discussions taking place.

We've both been banned from The Jack Show - me for being right, you for being the sleazy little shit you've been since birth. And despite Jack's regulation about posts about Tad Eareckson, related people, and their material - one which you don't enjoy - I, related people, and our material still have a pretty strong presence over there. Not a lot of references to Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney nowadays - Ryan Instant-Hands-Free-Release Voight neither.

Been following the Tad Eareckson action on The Davis Show...

You are not hooked in until after the hang check.

Still reading this thread?

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=39347
Please explain yourself without deleting me

Swift - 2014/09/28 16:37:50 UTC

But Tad was right all along. Long time insiders are now using 200lb test weak links.
Op Op should have been writing an apology instead of a weak (link) cheap shot.

...lately? Don't think for a nanosecond that I haven't noticed the glaringly conspicuous silence of the Patron Saint of 130 Pound Greenspot.

I used to REALLY want your miserable ass DEAD - or worse - ideally the way your buddy Zack Marzec bought it. But now...

You can't say anything any more anywhere EVER without getting your head immediately blown off - same deal as to why Jack can't afford to enforce his mandates about me. And I can - and WILL - humiliate you at every opportunity for as long as my brain and fingers are reasonably functional. Probably some of my allies as well. That's even better.

Your reputation is in the sewer - right where it's always belonged - and you're NEVER gonna get it back.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2871
speed link

Jim Rooney - 2007/12/13 18:07:02 UTC

Wow, so this is what I get when I try to be civil?
Oh well, very nice. Enjoy being pissed. I don't care.

As they often say here on the internet....
Pics or it didn't happen.

I did "bother" to look at your pics. They're cryptic at best. How would I know they were component shots otherwise? Wasting pixels? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Riiiiight. Pics or it didn't happen pal.

I bring up the Oz Forum cuz I seriously believe you fear peer review.

It's easy to rant and rave here on this group because most here are very civil and there's no moderation. Not so over at Oz. There are also very highly qualified individuals lurking there. I honestly think you're afraid.
But of course you'll have an excuse for not going there.

Enjoy posting on your intellectually castrated inbred little CHGA forum.

P.S.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=16265
weaklinks

Kinsley Sykes - 2010/03/18 19:42:19 UTC

In the old threads there was a lot of info from a guy named Tad. Tad had a very strong opinion on weak link strength and it was a lot higher than most folks care for. I'd focus carefully on what folks who tow a lot have to say.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22660
What can be learned from this "scooter" towing accident?

Mitch Shipley - 2011/01/31 15:22:59 UTC

Enjoy your posts, as always, and find your comments solid, based on hundreds of hours / tows of experience and backed up by a keen intellect/knowledge of the issues when it comes to most things in general and hang gliding AT/Towing in particular. Wanted to go on record in case anyone reading wanted to know one persons comments they should give weight to.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23813
Threaded bridle system

Jim Gaar - 2011/05/26 15:44:33 UTC

Beyond that I'm a Rooney follower...

All your idiot Rooney followers are toast as well. You took them down with you. Appreciate it.

[Tad Eareckson]

Hang gliding rules to live by...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=25963
Woman killed in B.C. hang gliding fall.

Dave Pendzick - 2014/09/30 17:00:51 UTC
Oregon

THE DEAD HORSE HAS BEEN BEATEN BEYOND RECOGNITION!!! DROP IT!

Whenever you hear someone talking about a dead horse being beaten to death you can be one hundred percent dead certain that:

- there's a chronic lethal issue being discussed which has an obvious and largely unimplemented fix

- the individual pulling out the dead horse card is a douchebag on the majority and wrong side of the conversation who wants things shut down before he gets his fuckin' head taken off

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=17404
Aerotow barrel release - straight or curved pin?

Jim Rooney - 2010/05/31 01:53:13 UTC

BTW, Steve Wendt is exceptionally knowledgeable. Hell, he's the one that signed off my instructor rating.

Not really understanding your point here, Jim.

- An ordinarily knowledgeable Instructor Administrator wouldn't have recognized your keen intellect, knowledge of the issues when it comes to most things in general and hang glider aerotowing in particular, ability to remember to hook yourself in when doing tandem flights most of the time?

- He was able to imbue you with enough of his exceptional knowledge in the two and a half days of the clinic to pull you through along with the candidates of normal or better intelligence and competence?

And by Instructor you obviously meant BASIC Instructor. And that only qualifies you to sign off Zeroes, Ones, and Twos. But let's go twice two to Four - which an Advanced Instructor or idiot Hang Three Observer can sign off - and look at the rating requirements:

The United States Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association, Inc. - 2014/03/14
Standard Operating Procedure
12. Rating System
02. Pilot Proficiency System

09. Advanced Hang Gliding Rating (H-4)

-A. General Description - The pilot has the knowledge and skills to fly technically demanding sites in strong soaring conditions, and to judge when the site and conditions are within the pilot's skill, knowledge, and experience level. The pilot understands the USHPA hang gliding rating system and recommended operating limitations, and the FARs and other flying rules applicable to his/her flying.
The pilot will fly using good judgment and have a level of maturity commensurate with the rating.
-B. Advanced Rating - Required Witnessed Tasks
--1. Logged Requirements
---a. 250 flights.
---b. Must have made 5 flights at each of 5 different sites in Intermediate level conditions, of which at least 3 were inland.
---c. Must have logged a minimum of 80 flying days.
---d. Must have at least 1, 1-hour flight.
---e. Must have at least 1 30-minute flight in thermal lift without sustaining ridge lift.
---f. Must have logged 75 hours total air time with no more than 25 of these hours to be tandem. Of these 75 hours, 25 must be in thermal lift, with no more than 10 of these 25 hours to be tandem.
--2. Demonstrated Skills and Knowledge
---a. Demonstrates preflight of harness, glider, and reserve parachute.
---b. Can give a verbal analysis of conditions.
---c. Can develop then follow a flight plan.
---d. With each flight, demonstrates a method of establishing that pilot is hooked in just prior to launch.
---e. All takeoffs should be aggressive, confident and with a smooth transition to flying. Flights with slow, unstable launches will not be considered adequate as witnessed tasks.
---f. All landings must be safe, smooth, on the feet and in control.
---g. Demonstrate ability to allow clearance when doing 180° turns by demonstrating figure eights:
-----i. In a wind sufficient to cause drift, two points will be selected on a line perpendicular to the wind.
----ii. The pilot will fly along a line parallel to that joining the pylons, slightly downwind of the pylons, toward a point midway between them. During the crosswind leg, the pilot will establish the degree of wind drift. At the midpoint between the pylons, the pilot will make a smooth deliberate upwind turn and enter a figure eight course consisting of smooth turns of constant ground track radius around the pylons (centered on the pylons) with straight segments crossing at the midpoint between the pylons.
---iii. The pilot must complete two consecutive figure eights in which the airspeed, bank angle, and turn rate are altered smoothly around the course such that the proper ground track is held and the drift is compensated for, without overcompensation or hesitation.
---h. Demonstrate three consecutive landings that average less than 25' from a target (or optional landing task - see Addendum 1 - Optional Landing Task) after a flight which requires turns on approach. In smooth conditions, the spot location should be changed by the Observer, for each of the three flights. Flights should be a minimum of one minute and 200' AGL.
---i. At a minimum of 500' demonstrate intentional stalls straight ahead and in turns, not exceeding manufacturer's recommended limitations, showing confident, smooth recoveries.
---j. Demonstrates the ability to soar above a low point for five minutes on each of three different flights.
---k. Demonstrates an altitude gain of at least 500' in thermals.
---l. Demonstrates complete understanding of all Hang Gliding Tow Discussion Topics (Only for pilots with Towing special skills).
---m. Must pass the USHPA Hang Gliding Advanced written exam.
---n. Must convince the Instructor or Observer that he can check in and fly Advanced rated sites without endangering spectators, other pilots, or jeopardizing the site.
---o. Must agree to all the provisions of the USHPA standard waiver and assumption of risk agreement for the Advanced rating and deliver an original signed copy to the USHPA office.
--3. Recommended Operating Limitations for Advanced Pilots
---a. Should not fly within 30' of another glider in smooth air, or 100' of another glider in moderately turbulent air.

Cite me something that involves exceptional knowledge, experience, ability, skill, whatever...

"Steve's a fucking genius. Hell, he signed me off on my Basic Instructor rating. And I'm God's gift to aviation!"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Kaczynski
Ted Kaczynski

"It is not enough to say he was smart", said Dr. George Piranian, another of his Michigan math professors. Kaczynski earned his PhD with his thesis entitled "Boundary Functions" by solving a problem so difficult that Piranian could not figure it out. Maxwell Reade, a retired math professor who served on Kaczynski's dissertation committee, also commented on his thesis by noting, "I would guess that maybe 10 or 12 men in the country understood or appreciated it."

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=28581
How to get banned from kitestrings.org ((tad drama)lol)

Brad Barkley - 2013/03/12 21:09:06 UTC

I sometimes go to kitestrings and read Tad's rantings because it's interesting in its way, and I mean interesting in the way the Unabomber's Manifesto is interesting... to see how a mind like that works.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=39347
Please explain yourself without deleting me

Brad Barkley - 2014/10/01 14:22:24 UTC

I am assuming that Tad's defenders here have never actually spent any time reading his posts. They are interesting, in the sense that it's kind of like getting a look inside the mind of the Unabomber.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
weak links

Brian Vant-Hull - 2007/07/21 13:00:33 UTC

I'll be lazy and ask if any of your references give a physical reason for the 0.8 to 2 g range they quote as safe. If not, constructing a reasonable physical argument could be a major contribution. You clearly have the physics down well enough (as good as anyone else in the world) to do so.

Hey Brad... What's it like getting looks inside the minds of Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney, Steve Exceptionally-Knowledgeable Wendt, Brad Fiction-Writer Barkley? I'm thinking coconut, lettuce, pumpkin, cantaloupe...

[Tad Eareckson]

Hang Gliding - 1998/02

The Wallaby Ranch Aerotowing Primer for Experienced Pilots

Welcome to Wallaby Ranch, the first and largest Aerotow Hang Gliding Flight Park in the World! We're the aerotowing (or "AT") professionals; no-one knows AT like we do; it's all we do, and we do it everyday, year-round.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2871
speed link

Jim Rooney - 2007/12/13 18:07:02 UTC

I bring up the Oz Forum cuz I seriously believe you fear peer review.

It's easy to rant and rave here on this group because most here are very civil and there's no moderation. Not so over at Oz. There are also very highly qualified individuals lurking there. I honestly think you're afraid.
But of course you'll have an excuse for not going there.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=17404
Aerotow barrel release - straight or curved pin?

Jim Rooney - 2010/05/31 01:53:13 UTC

BTW, Steve Wendt is exceptionally knowledgeable. Hell, he's the one that signed off my instructor rating.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22660
What can be learned from this "scooter" towing accident?

Mitch Shipley - 2011/01/31 15:22:59 UTC

Enjoy your posts, as always, and find your comments solid, based on hundreds of hours / tows of experience and backed up by a keen intellect/knowledge of the issues when it comes to most things in general and hang gliding AT/Towing in particular. Wanted to go on record in case anyone reading wanted to know one persons comments they should give weight to.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24534
It's a wrap

Paul Tjaden - 2011/07/30 15:33:54 UTC

Quest Air has been involved in perfecting aerotowing for nearly twenty years.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/26 08:24:31 UTC

Is it clear what I mean by "We"?
I didn't make the system up.
And I'm not so arrogant to think that my precious little ideas are going to magically revolutionise the industry.
There are far smarter people than me working this out.
I know, I've worked with them.
(Bobby's a fucking genius when it comes to this shit... for example.)

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=811
FTHI

Bob Kuczewski - 2011/10/25 07:28:43 UTC

Joe Greblo knows far more about hang gliding than I probably ever will.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks

Jim Rooney - 2013/03/03 19:37:19 UTC

It saddens me to know that the rantings of the fanatic fringe mask the few people who are actually working on things. The fanaticism makes it extremely hard to have a conversation about these things as they always degrade into arguments. So I save the actual conversations for when I'm talking with people in person.

A fun saying that I picked up... Some people listen with the intent of understanding. Others with the intent of responding.
I like that.

What a pity it will be when all these highly qualified, exceptionally knowledgeable, keenly intellectual lurkers, perfectionists, fucking geniuses, living treasures - many of them unnamed and unknown - slip away from the sport - taking their secrets with them, leaving no protégés to carry on behind them and all of us muppets just as ignorant, clueless, confused, misguided, poorly equipped as we've always been, perhaps at the mercy of creatures like Psychopathic Tad and their funky shit straight pin releases and insane stronglink theories.

I wonder just what it is about hang gliding that, decade after decade, prevents the enormous expertise and talent of its elite from being disseminated to regular recreational pilots and moving the sport up and forward out of the pit in which it's been mired even before I started in it a third of a century ago.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.linkedin.com/pulse/article/20141006125226-10136502-why-you-must-lie-on-job-interviews-and-what-you-must-lie-about?trk=tod-home-art-list-large_0
Why You Must Lie On Job Interviews And What You Must Lie About | LinkedIn

Mark Stevens - 2014/10/06
CEO of marketing firm MSCO, Inc.| Bestselling Author of Your Marketing Sucks & King Icahn

Why You Must Lie On Job Interviews And What You Must Lie About

All of the characteristics HR looks for in a job candidate are the polar opposite of what enlightened leaders seek in new talent. While HR is tediously focused on making certain that candidates "play well in the sandbox," strong managers want those who don't venture near the proverbial box. Which creates a conundrum and a paradox: to get to the latter you need to lie to the former. As well you should. Why be held hostage to a broken system?

Case in point: the HR person will likely ask you if you work well with others? Well, many of the smartest and most innovative people on the planet simply don't. Not that they are trouble makers or in any way venal but they simply prefer to work alone, creating marvels of software, mathematical formulas or extraordinary feats of creativity. But can they tell HR:

"No. I don't really like working with others. I guess you can say I do my best work by myself. My professors at MIT used to call me a 'loner.'"

HR's universal reaction to this honest response would be "Next." Einstein and Newton would have failed their test.

For years, my firm worked with a hedge fund that invests capital based on quantitative strategies, developed by their team of math and physics brainiacs. None even pretend to enjoy the social aspects of the work environment. For them, it is all about hibernation, concentration and introspection. They never stepped into a a sandbox as kids and they aren't about to start now.

Over the course of an intense year when we examined and adjusted many of the practices of the fund, management came to recognize that the caliber of the candidates coming to them for second-stage interviews was way down below the quality hierarchy. On closer examination, we discovered the HR filter was turning the best and the brightest away before they could be seen by senior fund managers -- all geeks and loners in their own right. The solution was simple: HR was limited to managing the fund's employee benefits and policies and completely removed from the hiring process.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=25302
Interview with Davis Straub, OzReport founder

Jack Axaopoulos - 2012/02/24 15:00:21 UTC

Tad has been BANNED again.

The "Extremist 1%" is not allowed on this site. Go crawl back under your rock with Bob and the other extremists that get themselves banned from every site and group they deal with. You guys have a marvelous record of getting along with people.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31931
7 words or less

Chris Kelcourse - 2014/10/11 12:13:17 UTC
Atlanta

Say in seven words, or less, what you love about flying. Forgive me, It's Saturday morning and I'm bored... and curious.

Mike Lake - 2014/10/11 12:23:58 UTC

XC

Watching pro-toad Rooney Linkers being fatally inconvenienced.

[Steve Davy]

I love the "free" salted peanuts.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TUGS/message/1265
tug parts

Larry Jorgensen - 2014/07/10 22:28:43 UTC

tug parts

Anyone have any tug parts out there new or used. A friend looking for tail parts and right wing.
Yes mishap but everyone is ok.

Martin MacLeod - 2014/07/10 01:25:00 UTC

Hi
What parts of the tail? Where do you live? I'm in Waterloo, Ontario, Canada.

Brad Gryder - 2014/07/11 08:34:37 UTC

Glad everyone is ok there. I'm also needing the Delrin gear leg receivers that bolt up inside the strong box. They're "too cracked" to suit the inspector.

Joe Street - 2014/07/16 12:40:30 UTC

WARNING TO THE LIST ABOUT MARTIN MACLEOD

When I used to fly the Moyes Dragonfly for Martin I discovered cracks in the vertical tubing at the wing root leading edge at the attachment bolt location. I have posted photos here. This is a weak spot in the design in my opinion and I've seen it on two different airframes.

Martin took it upon himself to replace the tubing with thinner wall (and therefore weaker) tubing and tried to conceal this fact from me. Martin doesn't fly the machine. I found out quite by accident one day when I bumped into the machinist who bent the tubing for Martin and he told me because he was concerned for me and he said that when he brought this fact to Martin's attention Martin dismissed it as unimportant.

Martin also booted me from his yahoo group for suggesting that he do the right thing and re-certify his instructor and tandem rating as periodically required by HPAC before he continue teaching or doing tandem flights.

Be very careful if you buy anything from this individual. I don't think he is trustworthy.

Michael Gates - 2014/07/14 15:42:30 UTC

Actually Joe you were booted off the list for your constant negativity, and was forced from S.O.G.A. for the same reason. You were the tow pilot at T.O.G.A. for a while and earned your nickname "Joe the no-tow" for a very good reason. Anyone can talk to Martin and soon see that he is o.k. Your little tale is a complete fabrication.

Joe Street - 2014/07/14 15:55:08 UTC

That's very funny Mike, except what about the other witnesses who know about this? It is a fact and when I found out about it, I insisted that Martin remove the weaker tubing and replace it with a stronger one. Which he did. My refusal to fly the tug in a compromised condition can not be faulted. I have records of this, so don't come here and try to pretend that this is a fabrication. It is not.

Joe Street - 2014/07/14 16:12:45 UTC

My apologies to the list for this drama. Clearly I do not associate with Martin any longer but I did not make my comment earlier out of any kind of spite in case anyone might assume that. I only felt a moral obligation to inform any unsuspecting person of something they might wish to consider. Unfortunately some people see my desire to do things in a safe manner as a form of negativity.

Michael Gates - 2014/07/14 16:59:24 UTC

Yeah, right Joe, airing dirty laundry purely because of spite is exactly what it is.

Joe Street - 2014/07/14 22:28:30 UTC

No definitely not, Mike. Think about it. When I told you guys I would no longer fly the tug, that was my personal wish, and I made that choice because I didn't like the way things were being done. I did not lose anything. I have no reason to be spiteful. I am quite happy these days flying my P-Swift and my Pietenpol and have no regrets whatsoever. Being that I was the sole tug pilot for you guys, it did unfortunately leave you without a tug pilot for some time and that might give reason for spiteful feelings from the other direction. May even explain why my calls for ethical behaviour and following HPAC guidelines got me booted from your clique. No biggie.

Fly safe.

Michael Gates - 2014/07/15 01:22:07 UTC

Ethical behavior ! really Joe , starting a nasty thread by slagging someone else.

Joe Street - 2014/07/15 12:29:40 UTC

Yes, looking out for the unsuspecting is the right thing to do, which is why I quit tugging. Mr. MacLeod was pushing me to pull tandems but he didn't even know how to tie a tandem rated weak link! He thought two single loops of greenspot placed side by side was the equivalent. Meanwhile assuring his student he was an expert and had everything under control. I was gullible enough to believe that horsesh*t as well for a time. Our launch assistant was begging me not to do this again based on the cluster f**k that was going on behind me on the active runway for an eternity before the signal was given.

Seriously, Mike, I understand that you want to defend your buddy but every time you type you end up making it worse. Do you not realize I have a list of things as long as my arm that were not done right, that made things less safe? I thought that before any innocent person buys anything from Martin they should be aware of what he is capable of and I did that. I am not out for character assassination, only the truth, but if you keep badgering me to defend my position I have plenty more facts that eye witnesses can corroborate. I suggest you shut up sooner.

Martin MacLeod - 2014/07/15 12:59:47 UTC

Damned if I do post, Damned if I don't

Hi

Most here do not know me but a few do and one has posted in support. I thank you. I have been trying to distance myself from Joe for awhile now. It is not a coincidence that he has burnt his way through two Hang Gliding clubs in this area. Starting a post with the first sentence in all caps should send up a red flag for anyone.

Anyways, it is useless and futile to point out or argue all the misinformation and half truths. ( for example it was Joe who picked out and ordered the tube ). Some types of people thrive on this type of discourse and will just continue to post wanting to have the last word no matter what the facts or reality. I know because I have been down this road with him before. I will now have to remove myself from this list to avoid my inbox filling up with nonsense once again, and hopefully yours too .

Funny how years ago I knew him well enough to have lent him money so that he could get his ultralight license, and now it's turned into this.

Joe Street - 2014/07/16 13:19:48 UTC

It's true. When I insisted he replace the weaker tube (that he chose, was warned about by the machinist, installed anyways, and concealed from me) then Martin, even though he somehow managed to get a degree in engineering, came to me to ask for help in selecting a suitable tube. Which I did for him, as I and others have figured out and done so many things for him. What is not true is that I was ever asked to leave any hang gliding club, but choosing to walk away could, I suppose, be called 'burning through'. I hope the use of caps did send a red flag. That was the point.

Michael Huckle - 2014/07/17 15:45:50 UTC

tug tubing selection

Seems to me the main issue is whether the tug has some thinner tubing than it should.

Tad Eareckson - 2014/07/17 20:13:24 UTC

Brad Gryder - 2014/07/11 08:34:37 UTC

Glad everyone is ok there.

Ignoring, of course, people like Roy Messing, Keavy Nenninger, whoever the hell it was who crashed this http://ozreport.com/forum/files/2_264.jpg one, Lois Preston, Charles Matthews, Eric Thorstenson, Frank Murphy, Zack Marzec, Mark Knight, Bryan Bowker, John Claytor...

But I guess a lot depends upon how one defines "everyone", "ok", and "there". And I also guess that...

Michael Gates - 2014/07/14 15:42:30 UTC

Actually Joe you were booted off the list for your constant negativity, and was forced from S.O.G.A. for the same reason.

...bringing constant negativity to hang gliding related organizations gets one booted off lists in pretty short orders 'cause they only wanna deal with constant uninterrupted positivity. Why talk about people going down in flames every now and then when there are just so many more flights that DON'T end in death and destruction? Why are all these assholes so obsessed with just the last 2.6 percent of the Titanic's maiden voyage when the first 97.4 went so absolutely splendidly?

I'd like to call for a vote to have Joe booted off this list as well. I for one have gotten sick of all the negativity in this sport and am totally fed up with all these "sky is falling" wack jobs. Use our magazine for example. We haven't seen much in the way of negativity and negative people for around twenty years and it's been pristine as the new fallen snow for around ten.

Who's with me on this? Rodie, Trisa, Rick, Brad, Futz, Mike, Bart, Sam, Billo... Goes without saying. Who else? Let's get this dealt with before he has much more time to my fill up our inboxes with more of his nonsense, half truths, negativity. Makes my skin crawl just thinking about it.

Tad Eareckson - 2014/07/18 02:05:42 UTC

Gawd! What's it gonna take? We have these indisputable facts:

- Joe was booted off Martin's list and out of S.O.G.A. - and almost certainly T.O.G.A as well - for his constant negativity.

- Mike assures us that anyone can talk to Martin and soon see that he's OK, therefore Joe's little tale is obviously a complete fabrication.

- Martin assures us that Joe's little tale is a half truth.

- Joe assures us that his little tale is completely accurate and can be documented but he was booted off Martin's list and out of S.O.G.A. - and almost certainly T.O.G.A as well - for his constant negativity. And thus we know that we can discount anything and everything he says.

- Averaging the remaining assurances of Mike's and Martin's we find that Joe's assurances are only quarter truths. That's only halfway between fifty percent and zero percent so we can round off to zero and go with Mike's assurances that Joe's assurances are complete fabrications.

- Martin further assures us that he's damned if he does post and damned if he doesn't and what better evidence could we possibly have to reinforce the mathematical proof we already have?

- The only ethical option Martin had in the face of his impossible situation was to remove himself from the list to spare all concerned from a ramping up of negativity in place of the months of dead silence we've all come to appreciate so much - and he assures us he's done that.

We need to get rid of this Joe guy and we need to do it yesterday.

The Dragonfly's a really excellent tow vehicle that's probably only killed two tug pilots within the past three years - only one of whom was a list member - and even if Martin HAD installed a weaker tube - which we've just proved to an absolute certainty he didn't - who's to say that wouldn't have made it safer?

If you guys are feeling squeamish about banning a known negativist - and probable safety advocate as well - can you at least authorize me to vote on your behalves?

Is this thing on? Is anybody listening to me? Maybe I'm too late. Maybe everybody else has already removed himself from the list to protect himself from Joe's despicable negativity. If only Trisa hadn't removed himself from the list because of the breakdown in civility that came in the form of T** at K*** S****** calling him a fucking moron. HE would certainly know how to handle a situation like this.

Tad Eareckson - 2014/07/21 16:35:13 UTC

Wait just a minute. I'm the one telling the truth here!

Blindingly OBVIOUSLY. Dragonfly culture has had such outstanding success getting hang gliding culture to swallow any dumbfoundingly stupid and contradictory crap it feels like pulling out of its ass that its members don't put the slightest amount of thought or effort into their lies and disinformation campaigns.

These assholes have very obviously made a game of seeing how far they can go getting away with spewing outrageous moronic crap. "Wow! They bought THAT! I think I'll publish a total bullshit fourteen page article on 130 pound test fishing line in the national magazine and see if it creates the slightest ripple!"

Well, that little game is OVER. These motherfuckers have told too many lies, contradicted themselves too many times, painted themselves into too many corners to be able to open their mouths on ANYTHING without the near certainty of having their balls ripped off and shoved down their throats by ANY halfway intelligent reader.

Tad Eareckson - 2011/02/13 20:30:06 UTC

Futz,
Based on what you posted yesterday and what you HAVEN'T posted subsequently, you're an anonymous gutless stupid mouthy little shit.

Based on what you posted yesterday and what you HAVEN'T posted subsequently, you're an anonymous gutless stupid mouthy little shit - Futz AKA FlyMyU2 AKA tipvortex AKA Richard Bryant.

Let me address some of the lies and half truths.

OK, just try to keep it down to about ten thousand paragraphs. My processor can handle just so much volume without overheating.

At that time there were heated words between myself and the pilot, and he offered to have my knees broken...

Hang glider pilot? What did you expect? A rational civilized response? What cave did you just recently emerge from?

I bought a power harness and planned to fly on my own.

Which is about the only way a flatlander can get any safe airtime - towing culture being what it is.

Martin mentioned lending me money...

Martin's a parasitic worm. That should be blatantly obvious to any halfway intelligent third grader who just read his last post. Hell, that should be blatantly obvious to any halfway intelligent third grader who just read the pathetic crap Mike's trying to lay down as covering fire. Don't waste your time with supporting evidence.

...despite Martin promising in the beginning that he would also get trained and we would take turns towing each other.

I wouldn't get on a Dragonfly or anything attached to it with a gun to my head after what happened to Keavy Nenninger and Mark Knight. It's a piece of junk designed, engineered, built, marketed by total morons.

Over that time period it became increasingly clear that Martin wasn't interested in keeping his word on many of the issues that were initially discussed.

How much time? I'da thunk that ten of fifteen seconds would've been plenty dealing with someone like that.

Doing things according to established guidelines and putting safety as a top priority were core ideas that were not being upheld.

As long as I've been around hang gliding in general and Dragonfly aerotowing in particular I've been watching established guidelines and safety being gutted at every turn and opportunity. Over a third of a century's worth of a brisk walk backwards.

The tubing incident was a shock to me.

Just put substandard tubing on BOTH wings. That way the failure will be symmetrical and you'll have a lot better shot with your parachute.

I was in disbelief because at that time I still somehow thought that this was my friend.

Got time for a list of hang glider and Dragonfly people I thought were MY friends whom I now totally despise? Or we could make things a lot easier with the other list.

Friends do not ask friends to operate a powerful hydraulic winch without any training to tow a student who also had never been towed however and the debacle of Martin's hang gliding school was the last straw for me.

There are a lot of tow pilots around and not around who'd have been a lot better off if their drivers HADN'T had any training. Zack Marzec, for example, was mostly killed by the equivalent of a dangerously frayed towline section he was trained to use by Dragonfly culture as a pitch and lockout protector.

Perhaps some of these things taken in isolation might not seem like a big deal but taken collectively they paint a picture of a person who is willing to do shocking things in order to serve his own purposes.

Sorry, a few years ago I reached the point at which I ceased being shocked by ANYTHING. Actually, I'd have been a lot more likely to be shocked if a Dragonfly person HADN'T pulled this kind of shit.

Despite the fact that my feelings were hurt by some of these letdowns and outright deceptions I do not speak out of animosity.

Why not? I sure would be. This Dragonfly culture is in desperate need of all the animosity it can get from as many directions as possible. These motherfuckers have hijacked a huge segment of hang gliding and monopolized and destroyed it. The more animosity the merrier.

I am able to fly in different and rewarding ways on my own, out of a great location with good soaring potential and do not carry bitterness.

I'm not and do. These serial killing slimeballs have my eternal undiminishing hatred.

In the two years since parting ways with Martin I have not made any public comment about any of this because I considered the matter closed until I saw his comment where I thought he might offer to sell some parts from crashed tugs that he has in his possession.

When you've got scum like Martin, Tracy, Lisa, Matt, Davis, Adam, Rooney, Rodie, Pagen, Robertson left free to operate with no accountability whatsoever the matter is NEVER closed and the sport isn't safe for ANYBODY. Ditto with respect to the scum what tolerates them.

I just think that unsuspecting people have a right to know when someone who appears to offer a helping hand is the type of person who will do so only when it is to his own advantage, and worse yet, could be to another person's detriment.

Virtually anyone and everyone in the hang gliding industry. Get used to it. Really hard to go wrong assuming the worst of everybody you meet. Like if you know it's a Gray Squirrel it's a pretty safe bet it's got a bushy tail.

And that was the end of THAT discussion.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=4566
Bad Flying and some good luck at Kagel

Joe Greblo - 2014/10/10 18:23:02 UTC

I have a video I'm trying to post of me and Corey striking wings in front of the ridge at Kagel on Wednesday. I'd like to post it here in case it could be helpful.

Instead of the precise opposite - as per usual.

Stop in and lend a hand if it's convenient.

The mid air occurred while we were both flying straight for a considerable time. We both flew down and landed without issues. Corey's...

Corey Caffrey - 88654
- H2 - 2010/06/29 - Dan DeWeese - FL FSL
- P4 - 2010/05/18 - Chad Bastian - FL TFL CL FSL RLF RS TUR XC - TAND INST

Corey Gemme - 80648

I'm thinking the latter. Says he's...


New Launch Technique

...a 2.99 with about 25 hours.

...Falcon was unscratched and my Sport 2 bent and creased the aft leading edge.

Obviously neither of us were looking around well enough. I'm accepting the lion's share of the blame because I'm the most experienced pilot that should have been the most vigilant, and was clearly not paying proper attention.

Lessons learned: Only 4 gliders in the sky doesn't mean pilots can't get too close. Don't divert attention to camera's or other issues "inside the control bar". Look for eye contact of any pilot near you. No eye contact, steer clear.

This is stuff you guys LEARNED?

-
Safety is a book, not a word
Michael Robertson

NMERider - 2014/10/11 00:36:26 UTC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPicLgg72TI

Mike Bastan - 2014/10/12 04:25:09 UTC

Glad everyone was OK. As a previous recipient of bad flying and some good luck at Kagel I know that things could have been much much worse.

Steve Murillo - 2014/10/13 16:06:20 UTC
Manhattan Beach

As Safety Director...

An EXCELLENT one, if I may say so myself.

I was able to interview both pilots involved in the mishap.

Pilot A...

Joe. Joe fuckin' Greblo. It's his thread, we know who he is, his identity doesn't need to be concealed.

...was an experienced H-5 with multiple ratings, flying a Sport 2 135. Pilot B...

Corey. See above.

...seen flying up the ridge in the video, is a new H-2. flying a Falcon 2 195.

Pilot A, who has his camera mounted on his wing and who is the source of this video...

Duh.

...stated that he may have been somewhat distracted with his cameras at the time of the incident. In the video, it appears that although he did clear his right turn, it appears that he did not clear back to the left when he went wings level.

Pilot B is seen in the upper left corner of the video flying directly at Pilot A with wings level, making no attempts to change course, from the beginning of the video sequence until collision. This indicates that Pilot B was either not looking in the direction of travel, or WAS looking in the direction of travel but did not recognize that a collision was imminent.

I thought as Safety Director you were able to interview both pilots involved in the mishap. Corey didn't tell you what was going on with his end?

Either of these two explanations is disturbing.

Or, depending upon one's perspective, amusing.

Miraculously, after the collision, both pilots were able to remain in control of their gilders and were able to land safely immediately after the strike. The Falcon 2 suffered no damage. The Sport 2 did suffer a broken leading edge, just outboard of the port sprog. Despite the broken wing, Pilot A was somehow able to land without incident.

As all of us know, flying the Kagel Ridge can be very challenging when multiple pilots are in the air. Your head MUST be out of the cockpit at all times. Clear turns always, and be aware of your fellow pilots in terms of location, direction, intention, and skill level.

Never demand airspace from another pilot simply because you believe you have "right of way". The other pilot may not be aware of your presence, or simply may not agree with your ideas on "rules of the road". Never hesitate to abandon your line if you feel it is unsafe, or about to become so.

Bottom line, keep your head on a swivel when you are up in the air, whether you are flying the Kagel ridge or the big skies of the Owens Valley. You never know when someone or something might be headed your way!

Well, that was all very informative. Told ya you were an excellent Safety Director. Any comment on the 2014/09/29 Joe Julik fatality at Whitewater...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7671
Gallery Of Pain

Christian Williams - 2012/01/18 19:58:00 UTC

Here's the way Greblo looks at it ( or how I remember his lectures):

We take off and land upright. Therefore, all the bad stuff happens when we are upright. And close to the ground.

Therefore, learn to fly upright in the worst conceivable (and sudden hairy) conditions. (One up / one down is "upright").

The alternative, if "more secure prone", is to go prone instantly upon takeoff, and stay prone until the last possible landing moment.

In both cases, this requires a change of hand and body position in the worst conceivable conditions near the ground.

Therefore, in order never to change hand position near the ground, it is necessary to learn to face all the worst moments (thermals, gusts, sinkholes, midairs, gear failure, downwind landings and takeoffs, a lifted wing into boulders and an entire wire ground crew snagged on your jock strap) upright.

A little reflection suggests that taking off upright and flying upright until well away from the danger zone is not very different from ground handling, where you are flying standing on dirt. A good test of upright flying skills is whether you can ground handle a glider in 25 mph of laminar flow. Do you require a wire crew? Hmmm.

Greblo will not sign off a Hang 3 (US intermediate rating) who cannot ground handle with confidence at the limit of his takeoff judgment.

He's not dogmatic about this for veteran fliers, recognizing that gliders and skills and terrain are different. He just provides his analysis. You often see him flying around in violent thermals upright, just (I think) as a kind of advertisement and thought-provoker.

...and the total crap the Danny Lange motherfucker spewed out for the press?

NMERider - 2014/10/13 21:09:21 UTC

Hey Everyone!

Let's cut the niceties and start saving our friends, fellow club members and selves by changing the SHGA club's safety culture.

- They've got one? You've got an asshole like Orion Price spewing the kind of shit that he does with total impunity and you think there's some kind of safety culture in that neck of the woods?

- Just get some copies of Michael Robertson's safety book and circulate them. Can't imagine that not doing the trick.

Let's be perfectly honest about this and start by admitting that the bigger surprise is that there haven't been more accidents than we've had.

What? You guys have had ACCIDENTS? Name one.

This incident...

INCIDENT.

...was caused primarily by the distraction of having a camera onboard while flying in traffic and in proximity to terrain.

By being distracted with the camera without ensuring a sufficient block of clear air.

Let's talk about the FAR and SOP violations:

Since when did hang gliding people...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=39347
Please explain yourself without deleting me

Orion Price - 2014/10/01 00:15:56 UTC

The problem with tad:

1. He's been writing the FAA trying to get aero-tow governmently regulated according to his protocol. If you chance upon his faux scholarly-ish article about areo tow safety you will see a window into the mind of a mad man. It's like 80 pages of ASCII text drawings of his Rube Goldberg designs. He's been mailing, and emailing his article to government agencies. I'm sure his communications get filed along with alien sightings, crop circles, and perpetual motion machines the FAA receives from other crackpots. Still weird behavior.

...start giving the slightest flying fucks about FARs and SOPs?

According to ridge soaring right of way rules the Sport 2 pilot had the right way because the ridge line is to his right. When two pilots approach head-on along a ridge the one who turns right to avoid the ridge must yield to the other.

However, the FARs (and therefore USHPA SOPs) state:

Sec. 103.13 Operation near aircraft; right-of-way rules.

(a) Each person operating an ultralight vehicle shall maintain vigilance so as to see and avoid aircraft and shall yield the right-of-way to all aircraft.
(b) No person may operate an ultralight vehicle in a manner that creates a collision hazard with respect to any aircraft.

Yeah? They've also got stuff about minimum weak link strengths and a mandate that the tug's weak link exceed what's on the glider's end. When was the last time you heard anybody getting the least bit bent out of shape about anything in those departments?

Operating a camera while flying in proximity to other aircraft [ultralight vehicles] reduces vigilance while creating a collision hazard.

This is also the second serious SHGA incident involving a camera that I'm aware of. The last happened at Big Sur a few years ago and resulted in a Falcon folding up right after launch. In that case the pilot was using a new camera mount and failed to fully insert the control bar into the corner bracket and the bolt did not go through the hole.

Wills Wing

While pushing up on the leading edge between the nose and the crossbar junction, step on the bottom side wire with about 75 pounds of force. This is a rough field test of the structural security of the side wire loop, the control bar and the crossbar, and may reveal a major structural defect that could cause an in-flight failure in normal operation.

Luckily the glider immediately folded up and fell only a short distance onto the hillside with no injuries.

Oh good. I'm so relieved that he's OK and still a valued member of the gene pool.

Globally, there has been at least one documented fatal crash involving a camera.

Who gives a rat's ass? If it's not a Grebloville site how is it relevant?

At a world meet some years ago the pilot draped his drag chute over the control bar in order to reposition his camera. The chute fell over the bar then inflated causing a fatal nose dive.

But the camera was the problem? Not the...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgWdQljmccI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYpOvcFc9uI

20-30326
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2860/13650864904_5d87fcc970_o.png


...drag chute? Was that guy planning on landing some place at which he'd have needed a drag chute?

Enough about cameras as a contributing factor.

Yeah, let's focus a little more on the drag chutes. Christy Huddle was down at comp in Venezuela or thereabouts and watched a guy kill himself in the LZ hooking one on a sidewire. And she had somehow just managed to land herself a lot better without one.

Any and all distractions whether during set-up, launch, flight, landing and even post-flight disassembly can lead to a current or future incident.

How 'bout the period between arriving at launch and...

With each flight, demonstrates a method of establishing that the pilot is hooked in just prior to launch.

...committing to launch?

Obviously this isn't even the tip of the iceberg.

One of the best safety pushes I have ever received came from Ronaldo (of all people) when he talked me into breaking my glider down on launch during unusually gusty winds. The sales pitch Ron gave me was very convincing (leave it to a REALTOR®):
RK: Do you want to be able to fly tomorrow and the day after that?
JD: Yes, why?
RK: Then why risk it flying in conditions like this?

Leave it to one Yid to answer another Yid's question with a question. Yes it's true--safety can be a fun endeavor!

Faggots.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=4566
Bad Flying and some good luck at Kagel

Jim Thompson - 2014/10/14 00:23:40 UTC

It would appear that we may have a choice for Safety Director this year. Consider yourself nominated Jonathan.

What's wrong with your current Safety Director? I thought he did a really great job of talking about Pilots A and B and cautioning people to not fly into each other.

NMERider - 2014/10/14 01:53:25 UTC

I accept.

If you need any help...

http://torreyhawks.org/r3/ENDNOFR.HTM
Endorsements

NMERider

I voted for Bob after spending a very enjoyable hour on the telephone with him a few months ago. My impression of Bob is that he is a level headed and enthusiastic supporter of both hang gliding and paragliding, and above all: SAFETY.

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1563
Platform Launching (PL) Draft suggestions needed

Bob Kuczewski - 2014/06/06 17:21:51 UTC

I also like that this discussion emphasizes that breaking a weak link is something that can be practiced - just like we practice stalls - so we understand how to handle them and to not be afraid of them. I had a terrifying stall experience with my instructor when I was learning to fly airplanes back in the 70s. For a long time I feared getting close to stall. As long as I feared stalls, I was not spending much time getting comfortable with them, and that didn't make me a better pilot. So there's a lot to be said for safely learning to handle the inevitable rather than trying to come up with some way to avoid the inevitable.
Nice job Bill !!!!

Jim Thompson - 2014/10/14 05:00:42 UTC

I've notified Ken Andrews. You'll appear on the ballot.

Good luck, Jonathan. These political battles for the post of club safety director can get really ugly.

Janyce Collins - 2014/10/15 00:43:06 UTC

I'd like to congratulate both pilots for staying alive and landing safely.

I'd like to congratulate the two pilots also flying Kagel at that time who DIDN'T fly into each other for staying alive and landing safely. I'd also like to condemn Corey for failing to:
- yield to right of way
- identify himself and post a full account of the incident from his perspective
- apologize and pay for the damage to Joe's glider.

I'd also like to praise the individual who built and assembled my ex-Sport 2. It's survived looping, spinning, ME, being sleeved with a melted antenna, and now, this! Greblo should double its price!

Why? Would other HGMA certified gliders have folded up in those situations?

To quote Chief,
"Thank the day, etc. etc."
So glad everyone is fine!