landing

[Tad Eareckson]

I thought the same thing but failed to mention it.

But NOW you mention it - and thereby score Landing Thread Post 1000. Oh well, I got 999 - and now 1001. Those are cool numbers too.

People in general are reluctant to share their own errors out of embarrassment...

People in THIS sport hardly ever have any choice. How/Where do we crash? Launching, landing, blown aerobatics, midairs. You've just about always got an audience. Either that or you get blown over the back, trigger a public response, and make the news.

There aren't a whole lot of people in hang gliding who haven't screwed multiple pooches fairly bigtime. And what's left over should be smart enough to keep it's mouth shut out of rational fear of doing something really spectacular next weekend. And one's never gonna be able to do anything more spectacular than a lot of top guns who ain't around no more.

I don't see people who make well publicized mistakes - like Jonathan's, Dan Veneman's, this one - paying big social prices if they're honest about what happened, accept responsibility, make a plan for doing better. The flak they catch from the assholes seems to be more than compensated for by the respect they get from real people.

I've got plenty of respect for this Dave guy who missed the biggest flattest LZ in North America and posted the video and the total opposite for Corey (Caffrey probably) for flying into Joe Greblo and saying nothing.

I have total contempt for Bill Moyes who obviously knows exactly what happened with Steven Tinoson at Forbes under the supervision of his buddies and is totally sitting on every scrap of information on it.

And of course Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney goes without saying. "Yeah, I launched my tandem unhooked and dove my passenger into the powerlines by hanging on trying to save my own stupid, useless, cowardly ass. Unhooked launches. Can happen to anybody. Didn't do anything wrong 'cause there's nothing that can be done to prevent them. I know 'cause I'm a PROFESSIONAL PILOT - you miserable weekender twat." I'll happily heap as much misery as possible on a motherfucker like that.

...and there is a taboo surrounding incidents that end in death.

Yeah. Totally out of deep respect and concern for the deceased and his family. How convenient. Funny how out in the REAL world they always publish the blood alcohol content, speed, previous convictions for reckless driving and get as much imagery on the screen as possible.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=32009
Ouch

Karl Allmendinger - 2014/11/05 16:49:42 UTC

Years ago I watched one of the newbies land at Ed Levin. The wind switched, he turned into it, it switched again, he turned again, it switched yet again and he turned into it and landed. His comment was, "That was a terrible approach, I was all over the place!" and I told him, "That was a great approach! You were watching the streamers and it switched and switched and switched again and you turned and turned and turned and landed into the wind. Good on ya, mate!"

1. Then why did he say, "That was a terrible approach, I was all over the place!"? He kept deliberately turning into a really switchy wind he was monitoring with the streamers but was totally unaware of what he was doing and why until after you congratulated him and explained it all?

2. Must be nice to have all that wide open infinite golf course under you and not hafta worry about trees, fences, powerlines so's you can do whatever the fuck you want until you hit the ground.

3. How nice that the wind stopped switching long enough for him to execute a final and stop. If the wind had gone 180 when he was at ten feet how do you think he'd have responded?

4. If the wind was switching that much was any of it strong enough to matter that much?

5. Dave's primary problem wasn't that he was coming in with a light tailwind. His big problem was - and likely still is - that he left himself no safety margins and had no flexibility to respond to a changing/unexpected situation.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=32009
Ouch

Brandon Russell - 2014/11/06 18:40:03 UTC
Ringgold, Georgia

I didn't see this incident and haven't talked to the pilot.

I wonder if he made a "rookie mistake" and paid attention to the direction of the landings of the tow planes?

1. Is that a rookie...

davedpilot - 2014/10/29 22:22:14 UTC

I don't know if it caught people off guard but several pilots landed downwind as I stood there waiting to bum a ride back up the mountain.

I hope this isn't out of line to pat myself on the back, but on my first flight I noticed the wind sock and streamers were blowing in the opposite direction from the flight plan I had gone over with my instructor so I adjusted and landed into the wind. When I finally arrived back at the launch site my instructor was not happy with me because he thought I landed downwind. It was not until another student that DID land downwind vindicated me that he realized I was paying attention.

...mistake?

2. The tugs weren't landing. They were taxiing to the other end of the field. If he'd thought about WHY they were doing that...

I don't think the downwind landing is what gave him the real problem.

Totally...

11-2114
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7532/15704755632_88341e6914_o.png


If the windsock had been reversed I still wouldn't have sold him insurance.

I bet he could have even ran out the downwind landing if the rest of his technique would have been solid.

Yeah, let's not even consider using the wheels.

To me it looks he gets bumped really hard to the left and because of the lack of airspeed and the slight cross control, just didn't have enough of a correction to get it straightened back out. I don't know though ... could have been target fixation like Jason suggested early.

He didn't know what he was doing 'cause his instruction and training sucked.

Friday and Sunday look good ... lets go fly

I can always use more good videos.

[miguel]

My guess is flying stalled downwind with the illusion of control.

Nah. He had pretty good speed the whole time. Enough for a touch and go starting at 0:35. Could've had a decent second flight if the cottage hadn't gotten in the way. Lotsa people have done a lot worse with a lot fewer hazards in the equation.

He has pretty good GROUND SPEED. His airspeed is not discernible. Touch and go could easily be a downwind bounce and go.

He should have wheeled it while he still had control

[Tad Eareckson]

He had totally awesome ground speed - and I'll maintain that he came down with pretty good airspeed. He didn't have much of a tailwind (see previous photo) and the gradient sure wasn't doing anything to increase it.

But, as far as I'm concerned, it's mostly a waste of time to discuss what happened AFTER he overshot the target area. The main problem was that he totally squandered MILES of available runway - as he, and damn near everyone else in this stupid sport - was trained to.

And it sure wasn't...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=32009
Ouch

Erik Boehm - 2014/10/30 12:35:14 UTC

...and should be aiming for the middle of that big fat field, and be willing to walk more

Avolare - 2014/10/30 12:54:49 UTC

To paraphrase MBarber, you guys will spend an hour on a treadmill, elliptical, stairclimber, etc. but you won't walk just a few seconds from the middle of a huge LZ!

...'cause he was trying to be some supercool hotshot bent on saving a few steps to the breakdown area.

[Tad Eareckson]

P.S. THIS:

21-2904
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3942/15518475648_f3b9a64314_o.png


is where he should've been six inches off the deck running out of airspeed - regardless of whatever the fuckin' wind was or wasn't doing.

[miguel]

Got it!!!!

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=39719
Building hang gliding back up

Old Man Matt - 2014/11/16 17:37:03 UTC

The key to survival of any sport lies within the youth of today...as they have longer to live and spread growth. It's an adventure sport and the younger people are more adventurous on average than say someone in their forties.

Look at the new PG and HG records. They are made by younger adults. They are in the public eye. We look at that and say "Wow, that's cool." A younger pilot looks at that and says "Wow, I am going to try to do that."

"DAMN! Did you see that guy pulling that no stepper off in that narrow dry riverbed with large rocks strewn all over the place?! That was AWESOME!!! I'm signing up with Ryan Voight tomorrow so I can learn to do that!"

They seem to have more time to get out there and fly. I learned in 1989 at age twenty. In my first ten years of flying, I got many new pilots in HG. This is from the exposure...and the new pilots were always younger adults...not guys in their forties. Free flight attracts youth. We've all heard: "Boy, if I were younger I'd...blah,blah,blah."

I spoke to Mike Meier of Wills Wing the other day when I called for a new wing. We had this conversation and this is what he believes.

At least in the USA, the attention spans are growing shorter and it's all about how fast you can get something done.

Gil Dodgen - 1995/01

All of this reminds me of a comment Mike Meier made when he was learning to fly sailplanes. He mentioned how easy it was to land a sailplane (with spoilers for glide-path control and wheels), and then said, "If other aircraft were as difficult to land as hang gliders no one would fly them."

PG looks more attractive in that sense.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=28835
Why I don't paraglide

Tom Emery - 2013/04/17 14:29:12 UTC
San Diego

Been flying Crestline about a year now. I've seen more bent aluminum than twisted risers. Every time another hang pounds in, Steven, the resident PG master, just rolls his eyes and says something like, "And you guys think hang gliding is safer."

Paragliders collapse and slam people in on relatively rare occasions but hang gliders hafta land every time they fly.

The first thing you need to deal with...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=22176
Paragliding Collapses

Jim Rooney - 2011/06/12 13:57:58 UTC

Most common HG injury... spiral fracture of the humerus.

...are those insane landings and the upright configuration that precedes them. You're just wasting everybody's time otherwise. Make the landings that ridiculous and nobody will fly hang gliders and the ones who do will get crashed, injured, crippled, killed at unsustainable rates.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1
Hello US Hawks!!

Gordon Jennings - 2014/12/10 19:57:25 UTC

My hang gliding history is maybe "antique" maybe "embarassing", but I first worked really hard trying to fly a Cirrus III (more or less; I sure broke it up a lot). When I finally figured out what a real hang glider was, was about the time the Comet came out. And I had a couple of really great years with that until I broke an arm landing and my wife said Enough!

These days I'm mostly retired and generally somewhere in Arizona, whichever part's not too damn hot or too damn cold. But next time I travel I ought to come see Torrey, at least, for the first time in decades. If I can do it, I'll look you up Bob.

And Bob can tell ya all about the really awesome roll control you have when you're flying final upright.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=4611
Lollygag Landing Lament

Mike Blankenhorn - 2014/12/14 06:49:48 UTC

So I really screwed up my landing last Wednesday simply by looking in all the wrong places.

It all started with a virtual no wind launch barely clearing the bushes.

Could've been worse. You could've been dolly launching with a virtual no wind at an aerotow operation. All that equipment complexity multiplies the risk to an almost unimaginable level.

Then after a short flight I was over the LZ with enough altitude to let Ken land. But I decided to give it one more 360 and then everything just kept getting worse when I looked ahead instead of my spot.

What WAS your spot? An old Frisbee (which is classic) located in the middle of the field....

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=30929
Doh! My worst landing ever, caught on tape.

Red Howard - 2014/03/24 03:45:13 UTC

You can use an old Frisbee (which is classic) for a landing spot. It should be located in the middle of the field or maybe slightly toward the downwind end of the field for single-surfaced gliders, and slightly toward the upwind end of the field for double-surfaced gliders.

...or maybe slightly toward the downwind end of the field for single-surfaced gliders, and slightly toward the upwind end of the field for double-surfaced gliders?

When I turned my head again, realizing I better go on base leg now I did and watched my left wingtip get too close to the little ridge in the wash.

And the reason you weren't carrying enough speed to render that a total nonissue was because?

Then on final after going through the top of a bush my base tube brought me to an abrupt stop sending me through the control frame and breaking my right elbow in the process. So now I am being punished for my inattention with most likely surgery (will know more Monday).

No dislocation, just the piece of bone at the tip broke in half which probably gets me metal hardware. This is simply nothing but irritating as I know better and now it takes me 20min to get dressed and can't do half the stuff I need/want to do.

Did ya ever consider the option of trying to land in an LZ over trying to land on a spot? Or are you worried that you might not be able to land in a narrow dry riverbed with large rocks strewn all over the place without breaking an elbow if you didn't maintain a strict regimen of spot landing practice in all circumstances?

Hopefully this will all be healed in a couple of months so I can get back to the gym and resume flying again.

Get well soon, Mike...

http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=3840
[TIL] About Tad Eareckson

Mike Blankenhorn - 2013/03/12 03:57:34 UTC

Suicide is highly under rated, Tad should try it, but no wait he's lost his balls!

Mike Blankenhorn - 2013/03/12 16:07:44 UTC

We should bury this thread and not give Tad the satisfaction that we are actually wasting our time acknowledging his existence. Yes, this needed to be brought into the light but now we should bury this asshole with some nice cold dirt (metaphorically) and never speak of him again.

And...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=21088
What you wish you'd known then?

Doug Doerfler - 2011/03/02 05:24:44 UTC

Nothing creates carnage like declaring a spot landing contest.

...keep working on those spot landings. You'll get them down eventually.