Weak links

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Tommy T - 2011/08/30 00:50:40 UTC

The problem I see, is not everyone comes here...

'Specially not since shortly after the Lenami Godinez-Avila fatality when Davis permanently locked out search engine bots and everybody he wouldn't allow to register.

...and some don't even go online...

Do you really wanna hear anything from anybody with his head so far up his ass that in latish 2011 he doesn't even go on line? just reads the magazine when he wants to keep up with what's going on?

...the information also needs to be in the magazine.

Don't worry, Tommy. Just wait seven months...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=26302
HIGHER EDUCATION ?

michael170 - 2012/06/06 03:14:26 UTC

Did anyone here bother to read Drs. Lisa Colletti and Tracy Tillman's thirteen page idiotic article in the June issue of USHPA's worthless magazine?

NMERider - 2012/06/06 03:25:09 UTC

You are being much too complimentary IMHO. I got so nauseated reading it I had to take a breather. Do you mean to tell me they wrote an article that wasn't insipid and self-congratulatory to the extreme? I've found their entire series on aerotowing to come off rather poorly to say the least. A sad waste of such exalted and highly qualified medical professionals. How do I know this? Well they won't stop patting each other on the back about how great they both are. Pardon me while I puke.

Rest assured that your national organization will get around to it as soon as it can and put this debate firmly to rest for once and for all.

And, of course, you've always got the excellent book, Towing Aloft, by Dennis Pagen and Bill Bryden and Matt Taber's and Peter Cheney's HANG GLIDING FOR BEGINNER PILOTS - the Official Flight Training Manual of the U. S. Hang Gliding Association.

Plus, of course, all the web resources from all the big aerotowing operations.

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/30 02:16:16 UTC

They're not here cuz they don't feel like arguing all the time.

'Specially when they're getting their moronic lying asses kicked bloody all the time.

Most of the other people "in the business" don't come here cuz it turns into a shouting match too often.

Which people? Can you identify any of them and post some links to discussions in which they've been ill treated after they've made clear and rational attempts to present this issue to us muppets?

How 'bout the magazine? They're always pleading for quality articles from the most competent people in the business and they've axed the letters to the editor so's no muppets can challenge anybody on anything.

Or how 'bout their own websites? Quest took their excellent information...

http://www.questairforce.com/aero.html
Quest Air Aerotow FAQ

Weak Link

The strength of the weak link is crucial to a safe tow. It should be weak enough so that it will break before the pressure of the towline reaches a level that compromises the handling of the glider but strong enough so that it doesn't break every time you fly into a bit of rough air. A good rule of thumb for the optimum strength is one G, or in other words, equal to the total wing load of the glider. Most flight parks use 130 lb. braided Dacron line, so that one loop (which is the equivalent to two strands) is about 260 lb. strong - about the average wing load of a single pilot on a typical glider. For tandems, either two loops (four strands) of the same line or one loop of a stronger line is usually used to compensate for nearly twice the wing loading. When attaching the weak link to the bridle, position the knot so that it's hidden from the main tension in the link and excluded altogether from the equation.

IMPORTANT - It should never be assumed that the weak link will break in a lockout.
ALWAYS RELEASE THE TOWLINE before there is a problem.

...down for some unfathomable reason, what's up at Wallaby...

http://www.wallaby.com/aerotow_primer.php
Aerotow Primer for Experienced Pilots

The Wallaby Ranch Aerotowing Primer for Experienced Pilots - 2014/10/29

A weak link connects the V-pull to the release, providing a safe limit on the tow force. If you fail to maintain the correct tow position (centered, with the wheels of the tug on the horizon), the weak link will break before you can get into too much trouble.

... EVERYONE agrees...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec

Davis Straub - 2013/02/08 20:32:45 UTC

You'll have to ask Malcolm to update his document. He knows better.

...is absolute rot.

The only other operation that has anything up is Dynamic Flight...

http://www.dynamicflight.com.au/2013/03/weak-links/
Weak Links

...and we're CERTAINLY not gonna waste our time with that drivel 'cause...

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/28 08:34:12 UTC

Yeah, I've read that drivel before.
It's a load of shit.

...it's a total load of shit.

Any chance they're not here 'cause...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2871
speed link

Jim Rooney - 2007/12/13 18:07:02 UTC

I bring up the Oz Forum cuz I seriously believe you fear peer review.

It's easy to rant and rave here on this group because most here are very civil and there's no moderation. Not so over at Oz. There are also very highly qualified individuals lurking there. I honestly think you're afraid.
But of course you'll have an excuse for not going there.

...they fear peer review? Hard to believe 'cause...

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/31 09:25:57 UTC

But you see... I'm the guy you've got to convince.
(or whoever your tug pilot may be... but we all tend to have a similar opinion about this)

...you all tend to have a similar opinion about this. Doesn't seem like there'd be much of a shouting match - plus whenever your side starts losing Davis deletes posts, locks down threads, and threatens to ban people - or actually bans them.

Look how uppity people got when I even termed people "in the business" "professional pilots".

Fuckin' uppity...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks

Jim Rooney - 2013/03/04 19:31:36 UTC

The accepted standards and practices changed.
Morningside decided that they were happy with 200lb weaklink.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=32824
Weaklink testing

Mark Knight - 2013/07/04

My calculations and test suggest the 200 lb. is right for me. I weigh 185 pounds, fly a T2 154 (75 lbs), and my harness fully loaded is 35 pounds. Total all up flying weight is 185 + 75+ 35 = 295 lbs. Times 1.4 = 413. I use Pro tow barrel release so divide by 2 = 206.5. I feel the White and purple is a good fit for me.

...muppets.

It's accurate, but some got all offended. They couldn't stand that someone doesn't see their uninformed opinion as holding as much weight as an informed one.

That's ridiculous. Since all of this is just based on opinion OBVIOUSLY the opinions of the PROFESSIONAL PILOTS and the front end of the string are more valid than the ones at the back end getting dumped on their faces all the time because...

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/31 09:25:57 UTC

"light" weaklink issues?
"I had to land"... boo hoo.
Oh, I thought of an other one... I smashed into the earth after my weaklink let go cuz I fly as badly as I tow, and I'm only still here cuz my weaklink didn't let me pile in harder.

...they fly as badly as the tow (and you PROFESSIONAL PILOTS are incapable of screening them out before they hook up).

I know (very) basic electronics, but I don't argue with the electrician about which capacitor he uses for the timing circuit in my toaster.

NOBODY argues with the electrician about which capacitor he uses for the timing circuit in your fuckin' toaster. That's because...

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/26 06:04:23 UTC

Hahahaha.
That seriously made me chuckle.

I get what you're saying Christopher.
Please understand that I'm not advocating professional infalliblity. Not really sure where I mentioned that, but I can understand where you might have drawn that assumption. None the less, I simply refer to "us" as the "professional pilots" as a term to describe the pilots that do this for a living. Yes, we're just humans... bla bla bla... my point is that we do this a whole sh*tload more than the "average pilot"... and not just a little more... a LOT.

We discuss this stuff a lot more as well. We vet more ideas. This isn't just "neat stuff" to us... it's very real and we deal with it every day.

It's not "us" that has the track record... it's our process.
We're people just like anyone else. And that's the point. THIS is how we do it... normal, fallible humans... and it bloody well works.

So I don't give much credence to something that someone doesn't agree with about what we do for some theoretical reason.

Take this weaklink nonsense.
What do I "advocate"?
I don't advocate shit... I *USE* 130 test lb, greenspun cortland braided fishing line.
It is industry standard.
It is what *WE* use.

If someone's got a problem with it... we've got over ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND TANDEM TOWS and COUNTLESS solo tows that argue otherwise. So they can politely get stuffed.

As my friend likes to say... "Sure, it works in reality... but does it work in theory?"
Hahahahhaa... I like that one a lot

...it's based on SOLID ELECTRICAL *THEORY* - not the OPINIONS of a bunch of stupid incompetent semiliterate assholes. So if there's an electrician on the other side of the fuckin' galaxy working on the timing circuit on a toaster he's gonna use the exact same capacitor for the exact same reason. Anybody in the fuckin' universe capable of doing simple algebra is gonna use the exact same capacitor. Likewise with sailplane weak links back in REAL aviation. They don't do trail and error and opinion. They do ARITHMETIC.

It's just not my field.

Your field is fraud. They teach this stuff in junior high school and the kids with the functional brains all easily come up with the same and right answer on the test.

I know a lot of regular joes that do the same... for the same reason. There's a lot of lurkers here that really really do not care to get sucked into the mud.

Name some.

Funny the way whenever somebody is half a second late on flare timing and bonks a landing all the lurkers have no problem rushing out from under their rocks and screaming at each other for weeks on end but these same highly qualified individuals are way above getting sucked into the mud on weak link issues. Any thoughts on why that is?

I can't blame them, I avoid this place on a regular basis.

Not nearly as much as you do NOW - motherfucker.

It's a shame too, cuz there's a lot of really really nice people in HG.

Yeah...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31884
Sad Loss to the Entire Free-Flight Community

NMERider - 2014/09/30 16:25:19 UTC

http://www.rmhpa.org/messageboard/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5545
"Jedi" Joe Julik - Gone But Never Forgotten

Tiffany Smith - 2014/09/30 15:28 UTC

Joe had been at Whitewater, MN all weekend, towing and flying his happy head off. Sunday night he made a deal to purchase a Topless glider.....he was landing his first flight on it Monday morning when he stalled after transition and couldn't recover....landed hard.

One of them just bought it a month ago today when his glider caught a wind shear. I was SO hoping to hear some comments from the Patron Saint of Landing but I guess he was avoiding places 'cause he didn't care to get sucked into any mud.

Most are.
And all this sewing circle, drama queen bullshit keeps a lot of very informed people away... ya'll miss out on a lot.

Such a loss. None of us are getting any younger and it's inevitable that their wisdom will die with them. Maybe if we suck some of their dicks they'll loosen up on a secret or two.

The actual "insider" discussions, that you never see, are so much better.

Such a pity that they wouldn't contribute their wisdom to the sport and that you won't - or are, for some inexplicable reason, unable to - relay it to us. Now we'll never know any more about why they all suddenly upped...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=39347
Please explain yourself without deleting me

Swift - 2014/09/28 16:37:50 UTC

But Tad was right all along. Long time insiders are now using 200lb test weak links. Op Op should have been writing an apology instead of a weak (link) cheap shot.

...to Tad-O-Link ballpark weak links beyond the fact that...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31717
Weak link?

Davis Straub - 2014/08/20 19:48:26 UTC

Many of us are now using 200 lb test line from Cortland.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31747
Lockout

Davis Straub - 2014/09/01 15:22:41 UTC

I can tell you that I fly with a 200lb weaklink on one side of my 750lb pro tow bridle. I am happy with it.

...they're happy with it.

But man oh man, do people not feel the need to even be civil here sometimes.

NO!!!

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec

Jim Rooney - 2013/02/11 19:22:18 UTC

Of course not... it's Asshole-ese.

Sorry, I'm sick and tired of all these soap box bullshit assheads that feel the need to spout their shit at funerals. I just buried my friend and you're seizing the moment to preach your bullshit? GO FUCK YOURSELF!!!!!!!!

REALLY??? So...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10
Welcome to, and policies of, the Oz Report discussion group

Davis Straub - 2003/03/04 02:07:45 UTC

Be civil or you will be banned from all of the Oz Report forum.

How come Davis doesn't do anything about it? How can there be any incivility unless Davis...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=592
Linknife

Butch Pritchett - 2010/04/02 23:21:11 UTC

Tad that turd is getting back in the punch bowl.

...tolerates, encourages, generates it?

Have a think about that next time you're off on a tirade.

Yeah Jimmy....

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks

Jim Rooney - 2013/03/05 19:42:58 UTC

Wow...
So you know what happened then?
OMG... thank you for your expert accident analysis. You better fly down to FL and let them know. I'm sure they'll be very thankful to have such a crack expert mind on the case analyzing an accident that you know nothing about. Far better data than the people that were actually there. In short... get fucked.

We'll do that. We'll try to have nice, respectful, civilized, rational discussions about these things so we don't disgust and frighten off all the really nice informed people who could otherwise tune everybody in, get them on the same page, end this discussion for all time so we could move on and settle issues like the best curve radii for our barrel releases so we can most easily connect to really thick ropes without using weak links.

(not directed at you Tommy, just in general)

Yeah Tommy, you're OK in Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney's book. And we'll all make sure we remember that.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=30306
Non-fatal crash in Tres Pinos, CA

Scott Howard - 2014/11/06 16:06:31 UTC

I'M not just another baseless pan handler but i can't put the video on line yet as i don't have the camera/sd card that contains the video in my possession at this time.

And neither you nor anyone else was capable of making multiple copies? This wasn't an important enough video to have backed up anywhere?

it's somewhere safe at home and the best i can do for now is a clip of the day b4...

We'll take anything we can get.

...when i told the instructor about release problem. (still released by normal method but had to yank 3 times on release to get it to release.)

No...

Dave Farkas - 1996/08/02

As I checked on the glider, it continued to track more to the left and wasn't coming back to center. I estimate the airspeed at this time to be between 30-35 mph. Due to our low altitude, I didn't want to wait too long to take action, as it seemed pressure was building and the weak link hadn't broken. The next two steps may not have happened in this order, as this part is still a little confusing in my mind. I believe I pulled the release handle, but nothing happened. I tried to maneuver the trike a little to line up better with the glider to get them back in line, but that didn't work.

The trike was now being pulled to the left toward a tree line and I felt we were now in real trouble. I either pulled the release handle again or it was still opened from before, but the line still did not release. I didn't want to try this, but I thought if I reduced power a little, I might be able to lighten the pressure for Mike and Bill and maybe they could get the glider back under control, so I came back on the power some. I waited a short period and then powered up to try and force a weak link break or make the tow line release. At this time the trike was again being pulled what seemed very close to the tree line. I kept up power to try to pull us away when either the weak link on the trike broke or the tow line released. I was able to pull the trike away from the trees and circled back to check on the glider which I then saw on the ground. I quickly landed the trike and proceeded to the accident site.

Felipe Amunategui - 1996/08/02

Examination of the towline after the crash revealed that the weak link in the tandem end was intact, and that the tug end had no weak link and no steel ring (used to secure the line to two string release on tug). This suggests that the line did not release when the tug pilot intended it to.

Dennis Pagen - 1997/01

There is no known reason for the failure of the tug release since it was tested before and after the accident with a realistic tow force.

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=607
Understanding Tow Releases

Peter Birren - 2011/08/29 19:40:45 UTC

In my 1000+ tows, I've had to use my hook knife three times... the first was on a pulley tow when an old 2-string release didn't work. Sure did need that hook knife... and RIGHT NOW! Though it worked fine and I lost the bridle and release, it gave me the inspiration to come up with the Linknife.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=29415
Holy Crap

Lin Lyons - 2013/07/10 03:41:02 UTC

They're working on a 2-string release, using spectra line, that really cannot be attached incorrectly.

Tad Eareckson - 2013/07/14 12:06:26 UTC

A two-string! Super!

...shit.

Scott Howard - 2014/11/06 16:22:47 UTC

also if anyone doesn't want to believe that this accident occurred read the whitness account and look at the photo's of me in the hospital. this accident nearly cost me my life.

Nah, we believe it OCCURRED - we just don't believe it was an accident.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=30306
Non-fatal crash in Tres Pinos, CA

michael170 - 2014/11/06 16:30:47 UTC

Too much pressure on the tow line?

Scott Howard - 2014/11/06 16:31:44 UTC

o just tried to upload vid clip of day b4 but having problems. not sure why but it does'nt seem to want to upload. oh well at least i tried.

i ca'nt IMAGINE y u did'nt meat with success. oh well at least u tried.

Brad Barkley - 2014/11/06 16:33:03 UTC

It's not really hard to put a clip on youtube or vimeo and then post the link, if that's what you want to do

Nah, the TRYING was the important part.

Jason Boehm - 2014/11/06 16:49:01 UTC

if he wanted to he would.........
if he's incapable of figuring out youtube. maybe thats why he crashed

So then how come his top notch instructors allowed him to get into the situation he did?

2014/11/06 17:29:39 UTC - Sink This! -- michael170

Brian Scharp - 2014/11/06 16:59:20 UTC

For now please give us your account of the incident and the video can validate it later.

Oops. I can no longer figure out how to get this keyboard to work at all. Oh well, at least I tried.

Scott Howard - 2014/11/06 17:05:29 UTC

not too much pressure on tow line. pressure was with in normal range and was not more than i was used to.

He didn't get it, michael. Go figure.

Brian Scharp - 2014/11/06 17:07:08 UTC

Tension.

It's just another way of saying pressure. Go fuck yourself.

michael170 - 2014/11/06 17:19:35 UTC

Bullshit. It's pressure:

HANG GLIDING FOR BEGINNER PILOTS
By Peter Cheney
Published by Matt Taber
Official Flight Training Manual of the U. S. Hang Gliding Association

Michael Robertson on the Golden Rules of winch towing:

The key to safe winch towing is what I call the Golden Rules. Here are some of them:

The tow pressure should be light at launch, the weak link needs to be light, and there needs to be an observer capable of terminating the tow always watching the pilot.

If you're launching off the ground, use a launch dolly. Use a proper checklist. Fly only with quality equipment and highly experienced people. Fly only in conditions you can handle, and at sites with lots of room to launch and land safely.

If you follow the rules, towing has the potential to be even safer than foot-launched flying... Problems arise when people get gung ho, or when they get lulled into complacency. Towing shouldn't be taken lightly.

One of the biggest problems I see is high tow pressures. If you keep the pressure light, you have less force to deal with, and it's more forgiving. Once you're well clear of the ground, you can go ahead and turn the pressure up if you want, but down low, keep it light.

Michael Robertson operates High Perspective Hang Gliding and Paragliding, in Ontario, Canada. Michael is known as the creator of the Charts of Reliability, a system of risk evaluation and management.

SEE? Peter Cheney, Matt Taber, Mike Robertson, the United States Hang Gliding Association... PRESSURE. Go fuck yourself.

2014/11/06 18:48:00 UTC - Sink This! -- Paul Hurless

Brad Barkley - 2014/11/06 17:22:40 UTC

2014/11/06 17:27:24 UTC - 3 thumbs up - Jason Boehm
2014/11/06 18:48:31 UTC - 3 thumbs up - Paul Hurless

So you motherfuckers are giving michael all this flak because you strenuously object to people using the term "pressure" as a synonym for, in place of, the proper term for "tension"? I'm a little confused here. Maybe you could help me out.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=30306
Non-fatal crash in Tres Pinos, CA

Robert Moore - 2014/11/06 17:59:58 UTC

I don't get why some folks are so hot to see the crash vid.

You're absolutely right. There's FAR too much prurient interest in crashes in this sport. Thank God USHGA realized this years ago and totally eliminated accident reports and summaries from the magazine.

The guy crashed and people provided support, which is great. Unless supporters thought they were buying a crash vid, instead of helping a pilot in need, there should be no issue.

Get fucked.

We should simply be saying good luck to hang53...

That's what he'll need in an opinion and luck based sport.

...and hope to see him back in the air someday. If he wants to post vid in the future, fine.

Or maybe sometime down the road he'll have an even better one to post.

Jason Boehm - 2014/11/06 18:13:51 UTC

A MKIV tumbled- to say this is abnormal is an understatement.
What happened?

Go to Mission's website. No fuckin' way they won't have a really good account of it to make sure everyone understands just what happened and why.

Erik Boehm - 2014/11/06 18:29:15 UTC

Surely you'll agree that there are lessons to be learned from crash videos, no?

Sure. And surely you'll agree that the assholes who infest this sport are totally incapable of learning them.

Regardless, he said he'd release it as soon as he got home. He's been home for a long time now.

Right. Name some hang glider people who AREN'T lying pieces o' shit.

There were strong implications that this was MSC's fault, and now we have him making statements about providing video of him complaining about hardware.

If MSC is cutting corners, and faulty hardware caused this, people need to know.

- IF?

- They HAVE deadly cheap shit hardware, stuff that's killed people in the past, no question whatsoever. Why does it matter in the least whether or not any of it was a factor in this one?

The video can show what the problem is, and can help determine to what extent, if any, MSC is involved.

It's their operation, Scott was their student, they're involved.

* Accusations have been made against MSC - we want to see evidence

How 'bout?:

Scott Howard - 2014/11/06 16:06:31 UTC

...the best i can do for now is a clip of the day b4 when i told the instructor about release problem. (still released by normal method but had to yank 3 times on release to get it to release.)

That bullshit fatality-waiting-to-happen isn't good enough for you? You want a video of one of those assholes walking up behind a student with a nine millimeter and blowing his brains out?

* It is good to learn from the mistakes of others. Videos of people's mistakes causing problems can help get others to take the mistakes seriously (like many things, you can keep doing the wrong thing for a while before it bites you - be it cross controlling as we saw in a recent video, poor loops, or in the case of NASA, launching shuttles when you know the O rings are routinely burning through, and foam debris is failing from the joints)

There isn't shit in this sport to be LEARNED - just untold tons of shit to be FIXED.

* he did say he'd release it, and it is natural to be curious.

Yeah, it's the natural and driving curiosity of hang glider pilots that's always moving this sport forward at the astounding rate we've always seen. Remember when we could only get bent pin aerotow releases made with BLACK webbing?

Takeo Eda - 2014/11/06 22:41:50 UTC

I'll put my $0.02 in here, I towed at MSC from Hang-1 to Hang-3 (just got it a few weeks ago). I'm not sure where the "cutting corners" accusation comes from...

Try THIS:

Scott Howard - 2014/11/06 16:06:31 UTC

...the best i can do for now is a clip of the day b4 when i told the instructor about release problem. (still released by normal method but had to yank 3 times on release to get it to release.)

If you wanted some motherfucker dead really bad and weren't allowed to use a Rooney Link or Birrenator what better way? If you gave him a release that didn't work at all he wouldn't go up with it. Give him one that he has to yank three times and you can use a standard "just froze" or "thought he could fix a bad thing and didn't wanna start over" fatality report.

...and while I've had my share of eye openers (of which I have video, and were definitely my fault, being n00bsauce) I didn't see anything of the kind with regards to safety, most of the staff are pretty safety oriented and diligent.

Compared to WHAT?

The instructions given to people on tow is one I heard nearly every time I flew: "Pull in before you release", which I have.

GREAT! So what happens if you've already got the fuckin' bar stuffed...

03714
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3897/14571089821_0ec493e856_o.png


http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3728/9655895292_f4f808fb0e_o.png
03114

...and you're going up like a fuckin' rocket...

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flyhg/message/17223
Pilot's Hotline winter flying

Mark Frutiger - 2013/02/03 13:41

We launched to the south into a nice straight in wind. A few seconds into the tow I hit strong lift.

Zach hit it and went high and to the right.

...and you don't get any say in the matter of...

The weak link broke at around 150 feet or so and Zach stalled and dropped a wing or did a wingover, I couldn't tell. The glider tumbled too low for a deployment.

...if/when you come off tow?

My log book records almost 150 tows there, of which I've had three line breaks...

About one out of fifty, two percent. So much better than Russian roulette - which is nearly seventeen.

...one unexplained release (probably I didn't seat the release pin)...

(And they definitely didn't CHECK to see if the release was properly engaged - whether or not that was the issue.)

...one winch engine stoppage...

57-120010
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3955/15415918018_1571eda9d7_o.png

...and one self release due to skydiver activity, no crashes, and four hard landings. Pretty good record considering the first time I tried to ski, I ended up with hairline fractures in my arms.

So just on the towing you had four serious incidents in less than 150 tows. Let's call it 148 to make the numbers nice. One out of thirty-seven. Sorry dude, that totally sucks. But if you're comparing it to a Davis operation...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Davis Straub - 2011/08/28 15:26:28 UTC

Then again, Russell Brown had us double up behind him after six breaks in a row at Zapata. We couldn't figure out why we had so many breaks so quickly. Maybe just coincidence.

airhog2007 - 2014/11/07 00:27:30 UTC

Tow lines can only apply force through tension. Unless yer an Indian swami doing the rope trick.

So what does that tell you about the sport and the people running it?

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=30306
Non-fatal crash in Tres Pinos, CA

Don Arsenault - 2014/11/07 10:47:35 UTC

True, but hydraulic winches use pressure gauges.

And cars use tachometers. But nobody ever got pulled over for doing 4500 RPMs through a school zone. And neither you nor anyone else can tell me what the glider's feeling when a pressure gauge is reading 150 PSI.

The one thing that one CAN be absolutely certain of regarding pressure is that anyone who uses that term in reference to the force the glider's feeling is a total asshole. And it's a REAL BAD idea to be on the downwind end of a rope being controlled by an asshole.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=39719
Building hang gliding back up

Tommy Thompson - 2014/11/07 01:33:34 UTC
Whitewater

Manufactures are still bring new equipment to the HGing market, I'v seen aero-tow sights where even H2 pilots are using 2G weaklinks because they don't want to risk ending up at the back of long line of gliders because of a weaklink break, yes we are losing older pilots but Instructors are training new pilots, I'v also seen a few sites close, but, in each case the pilots just migrated to a new launches.

It may be as others have said, if a person has the heart to fly, they'l find it. All the graphs Ryan has posted shows a dreadful decline in USHPA membership. could it be that lots of HGer pilots still fly but don't renew their USHPA, could HGing be fine, but USHPA has a problem?

Manufactures are still bring new equipment to the HGing market...

Like really excellent tow release systems.

I'v seen aero-tow sights where even H2 pilots are using 2G weaklinks...

HOLY SHIT!!! I remember a time when...

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/skysailingtowing/message/4633
Weaklinks and aerotowing (ONLY)

Steve Kroop - 2005/02/10 04:50:59 UTC

Collectively I would say that there have been well over a 100,000 tows in the various US flight parks using the same strength weak link with tens of thousands of these tows being in competition. Yes I know some of these have been with strong links but only the best of the best aerotow pilots are doing this.

...only the best of the best aerotow pilots were doing that! Well...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/28 10:40:24 UTC

Is a weaklink going to save your ass? Who knows? But it's nice to stack the deck in your favour.

Now flip the argument and you start to see the devil.
A glider can take a whole shitload more force than a weaklink can.
So, if you're of the "sole purpose" cult, then you see no issue with a LOT stronger weaklink.

Well, it won't take long with that system before we've got a lot more dead pilots out there.

...it won't take long with that system before we've got a lot more dead pilots out there.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks

Jim Rooney - 2013/03/05 21:40:02 UTC

You want MORE.
I want you to have less.
This is the fundamental disagreement.
You're afraid of breaking off with a high AOA? Good... tow with a WEAKER weaklink... you won't be able to achieve a high AOA. Problem solved.

I'm sorry that you don't like that the tug pilot has the last word... but tough titties.
Don't like it?
Don't ask me to tow you.

Go troll somewhere else buddy.
I'm over this.

Not making much progress with what you want there...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=16265
weaklinks

Kinsley Sykes - 2010/03/18 19:42:19 UTC

In the old threads there was a lot of info from a guy named Tad. Tad had a very strong opinion on weak link strength and it was a lot higher than most folks care for. I'd focus carefully on what folks who tow a lot have to say. Or Jim Rooney who is an excellent tug pilot. I tow with the "park provided" weak links. I think they are 130 pound Greenspot.

...are ya Jimmy?

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec

Kinsley Sykes - 2013/02/17 16:04:16 UTC

Unlike sailplanes, the pilot is an integral part of the tow system. The breaking strength of an HG is a lot more than I can bench press, even one half of it's breaking strength if using a two point release. At some point, getting pulled through the control frame is going to be worse than almost any scenario I could think of. (and yes, no matter how easy it is to pull/bite whatever your release, at some point it's going to not work.. and if it jams and you have a 400lb weaklink (as was mentioned earlier) and you get out of sorts on your tow, explain how you are not totally F'ked?

Better start working on those bench presses if you don't wanna get pulled through the control frame and be totally fucked.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/31 09:25:57 UTC

So please, find me something... that you didn't make... that I can go out and buy from a store... that's rated and quality controlled... that fits your desire for a "non one size fits all" model, and *maybe* we can talk.
But you see... I'm the guy you've got to convince.
(or whoever your tug pilot may be... but we all tend to have a similar opinion about this)

Guess not.

...because they don't want to risk ending up at the back of long line of gliders because of a weaklink break

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3600
Weak link question

Jim Rooney - 2008/11/22 22:31:35 UTC

Nail on the head Brian!

The simple fact is this. The only reason anyone even gives Tad the time of day is that they want to believe him. Why? Because they don't like to be inconvenienced by a weaklink break. That's it.

Sure, everyone digs around for other reasons to believe, but at the heart of it, it's convenience.
No one is actually scared to fly with a standard weaklink. They may say they are, but deep down inside, they're not. BTW, this weaklink as a lifeline comment... any tow pilot that takes you over something you can't get out from should be shot. It is one of the cardinal rules of towing. Again, "I wana believe" rationalization.

Tad loves to speak of himself as a scientifically minded person. Yet he ignores a data pool that is at minimum three orders of magnitude higher than his. It is thus that I ignore him.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3600
Weak link question

Cragin Shelton - 2008/11/11 22:00:54 UTC

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is what started this entire soap opera of a thread! Tad was whining that broken-link pilots at RIdgely get a preferential push to the front of the line to re-launch, delaying his turn to get into the sky.

He wanted them to use stronger weak links, not for purposes of safety, but so they would get the heck out of his way so he can fly when the sky is good.

WE HAVE GONE FULL CIRCLE!

Fuck you, Cragin.

...because they don't want to risk ending up at the back of long line of gliders because of a weaklink break

Oh, look at that...

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/skysailingtowing/message/4606
Weaklinks and aerotowing (ONLY)

Davis Straub - 2005/02/09 06:13:39 UTC

Pilots need to be able to go to the front of the line (if they are ready to launch) if they have a weaklink break. Otherwise you'll have "strong links."

Stop rewarding Davis Linkers with free trips back to the head of the launch line and all the sudden weak link ratings start doubling and tripling. Go figure.

...yes we are losing older pilots but Instructors are training new pilots...

All they're training them to do...

Gil Dodgen - 1995/01

All of this reminds me of a comment Mike Meier made when he was learning to fly sailplanes. He mentioned how easy it was to land a sailplane (with spoilers for glide-path control and wheels), and then said, "If other aircraft were as difficult to land as hang gliders no one would fly them."

...is foot land. And...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=28835
Why I don't paraglide

Tom Emery - 2013/04/17 14:29:12 UTC
San Diego

Been flying Crestline about a year now. I've seen more bent aluminum than twisted risers. Every time another hang pounds in, Steven, the resident PG master, just rolls his eyes and says something like, "And you guys think hang gliding is safer."

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=22176
Paragliding Collapses

Jim Rooney - 2011/06/12 13:57:58 UTC

Most common HG injury... spiral fracture of the humerus.

...that's crashing them and breaking their arms as fast as they're coming in.

I'v also seen a few sites close, but, in each case the pilots just migrated to a new launches.

It may be as others have said, if a person has the heart to fly, they'l find it. All the graphs Ryan has posted shows a dreadful decline in USHPA membership. could it be that lots of HGer pilots still fly but don't renew their USHPA, could HGing be fine, but USHPA has a problem?

Bullshit. You make the sport less convenient, safe, rewarding...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/28 19:39:17 UTC

Weak links break for all kinds of reasons.
Some obvious, some not.

The general consensus is the age old adage... "err on the side of caution".

The frustration of a weaklink break is just that, frustration.
And it can be very frustrating for sure. Especially on a good day, which they tend to be. It seems to be a Murphy favorite. You'll be in a long tug line on a stellar day just itching to fly. The stars are all lining up when *bam*, out of nowhere your trip to happy XC land goes up in a flash. Now you've got to hike it all the way back to the back of the line and wait as the "perfect" window drifts on by.

I get it.
It can be a pisser.

But the "other side"... the not cautions one... is not one of frustration, it's one of very real danger.
Better to be frustrated than in a hospital, or worse.
No exaggeration... this is the fire that the "other side" is made of. Best not to play with it.

...numbers of participants and hours of airtime go DOWN. That ain't rocket science. Neither is the fact that you're not seeing the people who aren't participating. And it doesn't help any when you've got stupid arrogant scumbags in positions of control...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3600
Weak link question

Jim Rooney - 2008/11/24 05:18:15 UTC

Well, I'm assuming there was some guff about the tug pilot's right of refusal?
Gee, didn't think we'd have to delve into "pilot in command"... I figured that one's pretty well understood in a flying community.

It's quite simple.
The tug is a certified aircraft... the glider is an unpowered ultralight vehicle. The tug pilot is the pilot in command. You are a passenger. You have the same rights and responsibilities as a skydiver.
It's a bitter pill I'm sure, but there you have it.

BTW, if you think I'm just spouting theory here, I've personally refused to tow a flight park owner over this very issue. I didn't want to clash, but I wasn't towing him. Yup, he wanted to tow with a doubled up weaklink. He eventually towed (behind me) with a single and sorry to disappoint any drama mongers, we're still friends. And lone gun crazy Rooney? Ten other tow pilots turned him down that day for the same reason.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/25 04:55:25 UTC

Ditto dude.

It always amazes to hear know it all pilots arguing with the professional pilots.
I mean seriously, this is our job.
We do more tows in a day than they do in a month (year for most).

We *might* have an idea of how this stuff works.
They *might* do well to listen.
Not that they will, mind you... cuz they *know*.

I mean seriously... ridgerodent's going to inform me as to what Kroop has to say on this? Seriously? Steve's a good friend of mine. I've worked at Quest with him. We've had this discussion ... IN PERSON. And many other ones that get misunderstood by the general public. It's laughable.

Don't even get me started on Tad. That obnoxious blow hard has gotten himself banned from every flying site that he used to visit... he doesn't fly anymore... because he has no where to fly. His theories were annoying at best and downright dangerous most of the time. Good riddance.

So, argue all you like.
I don't care.
I've been through all these arguments a million times... this is my job.
I could be more political about it, but screw it... I'm not in the mood to put up with tender sensibilities... Some weekend warrior isn't about to inform me about jack sh*t when it comes to towing. I've got thousands upon thousands of tows under my belt. I don't know everything, but I'll wager the house that I've got it sussed a bit better than an armchair warrior.

...treating the participants like they're all three levels south of subhuman.

And everybody notice how conspicuously silent Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney is being in response...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec

Jim Rooney - 2013/02/15 06:48:18 UTC

Naw.
Davis has been at an around all this plenty long enough to understand what's what and who's who.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks

Jim Rooney - 2013/03/04 19:31:36 UTC

You've not heard about strong-link incidents.
Uh, yeah... cuz we don't let you use them.

...to this one.

This is snowballing. We're watching the total catastrophic collapse of a third of a century's worth of Hewett Infallible Weak Link scam and the total destruction of the reputations of the frauds like Pagen, Tillman, Taber, Straub, Moyes, Bailey, Kroop, Rooney, Tjadens who've been perpetrating it.

Rob Kells - 1985/09

In any case the weak link that was being used did not break. It is recommended that you never use a weak link good for more than 150 to 200 lbs. I have been using for years a single loop of 205 with three overhand knots and two bowlines to tie the ends together. Its breaking strength is between 210 and 215 lbs. It has always broken when necessary, but sometimes a little more time was required than I was comfortable with.

If you're towing, USE A WEAK LINK and test its breaking strength on numerous samples. Be sure it is breaking consistently at UNDER 200 lbs.

http://www.willswing.com/articles/ArticleList.asp#AerotowRelease
Aerotow Release Attachment Points for Wills Wing Gliders

Rob Kells - 2005/02

Always use an appropriate weak link with a finished length of 1.5 inches or less. Longer weak links are more likely to get tangled on the tow ring upon release.

You too, Rob.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=30306
Non-fatal crash in Tres Pinos, CA

Mike Lake - 2014/11/07 13:50:15 UTC

Used in that context you might just about get away with it.
"I reduced the pressure on the tow rope because the pressure gauge indicated it was too much"
Well hardly, but maybe forgiven.

However,
"I pulled in a bit to reduce the pressure on the tow rope" is complete nonsense and laughable.
Even when this error is pointed out some people continue to use it.

'Specially top people like Pagen who have strong motivations to keep the participants as stupid as possible.

If I make a spelling or grammatical error (as I do very often) and someone points it out to me I then do my best next time.
But some of you guys are like Humpty Dumpty.
-----
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less."
-----
Come on guys this is aviation, terminology is important stuff.

Anyway good landings to you all and remember to "push" when you flare, or is it "pull" I can never quite remember.

Don Arsenault - 2014/11/07 14:19:09 UTC

I think I do get away with it

- Speaking of spelling/grammar.
- Yeah, people get away with an amazing amount of shit in this sport all the time.

You reduce hydraulic pressure at the winch, which reduces the tension on the yow line.

See above.

Too much pressure = too much tension.

Is there ever such a thing as...

http://vimeo.com/71736008


...too LITTLE pressure/tension?

This only applies to hydraulic winches of course, which is what Michael Robertson was speaking of.

Michael Robertson was speaking of "tow pressure". There's no such thing as tow pressure - fuckin' PERIOD.

Mike Lake - 2014/11/07 14:55:08 UTC

Actually I was paraphrasing and not necessarily picking on your comment.
When referring to a tow rope pressure is nonsense unless you are trying to squeeze it, not a particularly efficient launch technique.

Ditto for "pro" towing - 'cept for pros who happen to have arms a couple feet longer than regular sorts.

[Tad Eareckson]

I see exactly what you did here Rob.

Right after Donnell brainwashed the entire hang gliding planet...

Donnell Hewett - 1981/10

Every tension limiting device discussed up to now consists of mechanical components, has a limited range, or relies upon human operation. Every one of these tension limiting devices is subject to failure. Please correct me if I am wrong, but it is also my understanding that there are a large number of tow pilots today who are depending upon smooth air, rope stretch, boat speed, mechanical devices, and ground crews to provide the tension limitation control for their flights. Well, in the author's opinion that is just not good enough. Skyting requires the use of an infallible weak link to place an absolute upper limit to the towline tension in the unlikely event that everything else fails.

Now I've heard the argument that "Weak links always break at the worst possible time, when the glider is climbing hard in a near stall situation," and that "More people have been injured because of a weak link than saved by one." Well, I for one have been saved by a weak link and would not even consider towing without one. I want to know without a doubt (1) when I am pushing too hard, and (2) what will break when I push too hard, and (3) that no other damage need result because I push too hard.

Furthermore, I will not use a mechanical weak link no matter how elaborate or expensive because there is always the possibility that it may fail to operate properly. In skyting we use a simple and inexpensive strand of nylon fishing line which breaks at the desired tension limit. There is no possible way for it to jam and fail to release when the maximum tension is exceeded. Sure, it may get weaker through aging or wear and break too soon, but it cannot get stronger and fail to break. If it does break too soon, so what? We simply replace it with a fresh one.

A properly designed weak link must be strong enough to permit a good rate of climb without breaking, and it must be weak enough to break before the glider gets out of control, stalls, or collapses.

...with his Infallible Weak Link lunacy really chintzy fishing line...

USHGA Safety and Training Committee - 1985/07

The FAA has granted the USHGA an exemption that allows aerotowing of hang gliders according to these guidelines. Aerotowing is a new and different way of flying hang gliders and must be done according to these guidelines for safety and legality.

II AEROTOWING EQUIPMENT

3) A weak link must be placed between the tow line and the release at both ends of the tow line with the forward link ten percent stronger than the rearward weak link. The weak link must have a breaking strength less than 85% the weight of the hang glider and pilot combination, not to exceed 200 pounds.

...instantly became all the rage. No towing problem that couldn't be solved with chintzy enough fishing line.

So at this point...

Rob Kells - 1985/09

In any case the weak link that was being used did not break. It is recommended that you never use a weak link good for more than 150 to 200 lbs. I have been using for years a single loop of 205 with three overhand knots and two bowlines to tie the ends together. Its breaking strength is between 210 and 215 lbs. It has always broken when necessary, but sometimes a little more time was required than I was comfortable with.

If you're towing, USE A WEAK LINK and test its breaking strength on numerous samples. Be sure it is breaking consistently at UNDER 200 lbs.

...you're on really solid ice. Totally in line with USHGA SOPs, can't get in any trouble.

But then reality started rearing its ugly head about two minutes after people discovered they couldn't get any gliders in the air at 0.85 Gs / 200 pounds or under so they pulled 130 pound Greenspot out of their asses which was enough to get MOST of them in the air MOST of the time.

But now you've painted yourself in a corner. From Chris Bulger's death on 1985/07/17 until yours a bit over 23 years later you can say NOTHING about weak link strength without contradicting what you put in print or admitting that you - and USHGA and all your dealers and buddies - were dead fuckin' WRONG. And nobody up in the ranks of hang gliding has EVER been the least bit WRONG about ANYTHING.

And that's why - two decades after Chris - we get infuriating bullshit like:

http://www.willswing.com/articles/ArticleList.asp#AerotowRelease
Aerotow Release Attachment Points for Wills Wing Gliders

Rob Kells - 2005/02

Always use an appropriate weak link with a finished length of 1.5 inches or less. Longer weak links are more likely to get tangled on the tow ring upon release.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=30306
Non-fatal crash in Tres Pinos, CA

Erik Boehm - 2014/11/07 16:20:02 UTC

Tension and compression are opposites and not compatible.
p = F / A
In this case, pressure is being used as if it was synonymous with force...

Pressure is a FORCE, asshole. It's a force distributed over an area but it's still a FORCE. And name some real world force that ISN'T distributed over an area.

...we often do that...

We who?

...like talking of bar pressure and such.

There's nothing wrong with bar pressure. It's a direct consequence of wind pressure on the sail and it can be expressed as the pounds per square inch your feeling with the palms of your hands.

I don't see why we had to have this technical side-discussion, but... whatever.

- This isn't all that goddam technical.

- Tell me something more fundamental in towing theory than tension. (You can include Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney in your response. That motherfucker's toast.

- We can't afford that degree of stupidity it this sport.

The pressure on the towline would be equal to the tension (force), divided by the cross section of the tow line.
As the cross section doesn't appreciably change, you can pretty much use them interchangeably.

Bullshit. Once pressure goes to zero it's not pressure any more. When it becomes negative it's called TENSION.

However, it is the tension on the line that is ultimately important.

Can you think of any scenarios in which alignment might be even more ultimately important?

If you use a line 2x as thick, the pressure will be 1/4th as much for the same tension, but it won't matter much as far as flying is concerned.

Lemme fix that for you...

If you use a line 2x as thick, the tension will be exactly the same for the same tension.

Now back on topic...

Get fucked.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=39719
Building hang gliding back up

Tommy Thompson - 2014/11/07 01:33:34 UTC
Whitewater

I'v seen aero-tow sights where even H2 pilots are using 2G weaklinks because they don't want to risk ending up at the back of long line of gliders because of a weaklink break.

Brian Scharp - 2014/11/07 06:04:47 UTC

Is there an appropriate rating to use a 2G weaklink?

Tommy Thompson - 2014/11/07 12:21:13 UTC

Yes but thats off-topic.

Then why did you bring it up in the first place?

Brian Scharp - 2014/11/07 15:49:26 UTC

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=39857
How pilot proficiency relates to weaklink G rating

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=39857
How pilot proficiency relates to weaklink G rating

Tommy Thompson - 2014/11/07 21:33:23 UTC

Brianscharp, I get this is a topic near and dear to your heart, but I should let you know that I'm the last HGer pilot that should try and debate a topic with a keyboard(english is like a second language to me).

In the other topic I used the H2 as shorthand for new pilot. I'd also use the term 1G as being a 140lb weaklink and 200lb weaklink as 2G, I'd drop any fractional values.

"How pilot proficiency relates to weaklink G rating?" If a weaklink's only function to to keep a gliding from being over stressed while under tow, pilot proficiency has no bearing on weaklink G rating. IMO there are other safety uses.

I get this is a topic near and dear to your heart...

How do you get that? He just asked as simple straightforward question. Lemme repeat it for you:

Is there an appropriate rating to use a 2G weaklink?

...but I should let you know that I'm the last HGer pilot that should try and debate a topic...

What debate? This is a yes or no question. If no that's the end of the "debate". If yes you can make it the end of the debate or opt to continue with an explanation.

But, in fact, the answer is NO. 'Cause nowhere on the planet will you be able to find in any government regulations or national organization's SOPs a single sentence or part thereof relating weak link strength to any rating, signoff, or skill or experience level - ONLY flying weight or, from the people who DON'T have their heads up their asses, max certified operating weight. And not one single Davis Linking motherfucker has ever lifted a finger to get anything relating strength to pilot proficiency on the books.

...with a keyboard(english is like a second language to me).

Yeah, thanks. We've noticed. How are you on grade school arithmetic and kindergarten level logic and common sense?

In the other topic I used the H2 as shorthand for new pilot.

OK. The vast majority of Twos with whom I'm familiar don't have anything near Hang Two competency anyway.

I'd also use the term 1G as being a 140lb weaklink and 200lb weaklink as 2G, I'd drop any fractional values.

- There is no fucking 140. It's been...



...fucking 130 since the beginning of fucking time.

- Yeah, 130 or one 140 times two is so close 200 that we certainly don't need to bother with fractions - or glider flying weights or capacities. 140 - one G. 200 - two Gs. What could be any simpler than that?

Well...

http://www.questairforce.com/aero.html
Quest Air Aerotow FAQ

Weak Link

The strength of the weak link is crucial to a safe tow. It should be weak enough so that it will break before the pressure of the towline reaches a level that compromises the handling of the glider but strong enough so that it doesn't break every time you fly into a bit of rough air. A good rule of thumb for the optimum strength is one G, or in other words, equal to the total wing load of the glider. Most flight parks use 130 lb. braided Dacron line, so that one loop (which is the equivalent to two strands) is about 260 lb. strong - about the average wing load of a single pilot on a typical glider. For tandems, either two loops (four strands) of the same line or one loop of a stronger line is usually used to compensate for nearly twice the wing loading. When attaching the weak link to the bridle, position the knot so that it's hidden from the main tension in the link and excluded altogether from the equation.

IMPORTANT - It should never be assumed that the weak link will break in a lockout.

"How pilot proficiency relates to weaklink G rating?" If a weaklink's only function to to keep a gliding from being over stressed while under tow, pilot proficiency has no bearing on weaklink G rating. IMO there are other safety uses.

Oh, DO please elaborate. What you've given us up to this point has been so very entertaining.

Brian Scharp - 2014/11/08 01:40:33 UTC

Thanks for responding. Sorry to hear you're grounded and hope it's temporary. You said "IMO there are other safety uses."
Anything reliable?

Surely thou dost jest.

Gawd...

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/skysailingtowing/message/7230
Towing question

Martin Henry - 2009/06/26 06:06:59 UTC

PS... you got to be careful mentioning weak link strengths around the forum, it can spark a civil war

It used to be SO EASY to spark a civil war mentioning weak link strengths. Now all the sudden it's become like pulling teeth. Anybody have any OPINIONS on why?