Sorry Jonathan, I'm not seeing anything the least bit amusing in this one. That's an extremely ugly situation they have out there in San Diego. Totally analogous to what I was dealing with in my situation with the pieces of shit who took over Ridgely and effectively ended my flying career.NMERider - 2014/11/11 22:26:51 UTC
Hucking Fysterical!
Another Henry David Thoreau essay on civil disobedience in progress.
How 'bout just getting the sleazebag concessionaire thugs the fuck outta there and getting things back under control?Alan Deikman - 2014/11/11 23:25:02 UTC
With crap like this going on it is a wonder the city doesn't just shut down all flying at the site.
How 'bout showing up at a Davis comp and being told you can only fly with the Zack Marzec configuration that he sells and enforces? Or having to hook up behind some vile incompetent little shit like Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney and being told that he's the Pilot In Command of your glider, you'll use and not use whatever equipment he tells you, and tells you he can fix whatever's going on back there by giving you the rope? And that's just the tip of the fuckin' iceberg.With the environment that toxic I am not sure if I would have any fun flying there anyway.
Bob's on the front line. If it weren't for him it would either be somebody else or hang gliding would be totally bulldozed by these motherfuckers.Brian McMahon - 2014/11/11 23:58:49 UTC
Well to be fair, the strife really is limited to Bob (and one or two less vocal others) and some PG pilots.
When any paraglider foolish enough to fly would be going steadily backwards at ten miles per hour.In the air, things are relatively peaceful, at least on the really windy days.
But a lot less under private control.The site is an attraction; even on weekdays lots of European/Asian tourists will show up. The city isn't going to shut it down unless it becomes a financial liability. If they did shut down flight operations, it would still be a public park.
Bob Kuczewski - 2014/11/11 07:12:00 UTC
Last night at this time I was in jail for the crime of taking pictures at Torrey Pines and then standing my ground when I was told to leave the property.
Bob Kuczewski - 2014/11/11 19:41:31 UTC
I attended the City Council meeting last night where I showed many of these pictures to the Council.
The video is pretty conclusive evidence of my innocence, but I'm keeping it to myself for now while I consider all the legal options.
And Banned On Bob's Whim Former Fellow Hawks.Margie Holland - 2014/11/12 07:49:04 UTC
Fellow Hawks,
(Gawd it makes my skin crawl having to align myself with some of these people over this.)This video is Bob's presentation to the San Diego City Council less than twelve hours after he was released from San Diego county jail for taking photos at the glider port of Gab's nose. This is just more proof of what jerks those guys (thugs) are.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qhT3Ws7Wyk
Yeah, you need to be an advanced HG/PG pilot to understand those dangers. And if you're gonna take in the waves for a bit in the summer you can take a course at the community college to get properly checked out on the dangers of beach umbrellas.Brian McMahon - 2014/11/11 21:11:59 UTC
I watched the video:
01) Bob was videoing Gabe Jebb for a minute or two and didn't say anything (I'd estimate 25-30 feet away, keep in mind that Bob is an advanced HG/PG pilot, so understands potential dangers to himself and others by being in the area at all)
Well yeah, if a FLIGHT DIRECTOR wants the police to arrest someone for any reason he feels like the police have no choice but to arrest him.02) Gabe noticed Bob and said something hard to hear about a guy in a white shirt filming
03) Gabe tells Bob that he is trying to run a class and to get out of the area, back up, etc.
04) Bob says that Gabe should be wearing a helmet (disputable)
05) Gabe repeatedly yells at Bob to get away from the area
06) Bob refuses and Gabe takes off the harness and gets in Bob's face
07) Another instructor approaches and the flight director appears
08: The three of them sort of push and bump into him, basically telling him to get out of there
09) Bob tells them to call the Police and that he has a right to be there
10) At some point the flight director tells him he is suspended for a year
11) The flight director unties Bob's glider and there is a little more scuffling
There is much back and forth during all of this with Bob asserting his right to be at the park and them telling him to get out of the area. The video ends there.
None of this is on video:
The Police show up and talk to Bob asking for his side and they talk to the flight director. They ask if Bob is willing to leave or they might have to arrest him. Bob asks for thirty minutes to break down his glider and think about it. After he broke his glider down and called a friend to be able to drive his vehicle away for him, he tells the police he is unwilling to leave and that he is asserting his right to be at the park (this is in the parking area now, not the flight area). So the Police ask the flight director if he wants Bob arrested and he says yes, so they arrest him and charge him with Trespassing.
The police are off the hook on this I think, because they asked the flight director if he wanted Bob arrested.
But he DOES have the authority to order arrests.I don't think the flight director has the authority to bar anyone from the park, only the city can do that...
Super!...but the flight director must have convinced the police officers that he does have that authority.
This case is very similar to the previous case from about seven or eight years ago where David Jebb barred Bob for a year. In that case, a lawyer analyzed the lease and wrote a letter to Jebb stating that the lease gave Jebb a lease to operate a concession, but no authority to ban, bar, or suspend anyone from being at the park. As a flight director, Jebb could suspend someone from flying for unsafe acts, but there is no legal basis for the flight director to eject and ban someone from the park itself.
A ban which was determined to have been without justification / illegal and overturned.Alan Deikman - 2014/11/12 02:38:19 UTC
If a "flight director" has any authority at all it must be at least to be to act in the safety interests of the site. If not, then the title is totally meaningless. Which may actually be the case there.
Probably of more influence to the cops was the history, which as you said included getting banned in the past.
That would be right about at the proper speed for a lot of those assholes.If they were informed of that, and the flight director plus other instructors saying something like Bob is a pain in the ass all the time and today he decided to interfere with instructors would make it a no-brainer for the cops.
Propose a scenario for this "something". Cite some kind of precedent. He's allegedly trespassing and interfering with an instructor? A student misses the part where he's supposed to pull on the left strings to correct for a right turn so he crashes back into the cliff because of Bob? Bullshit.If they just let Bob be and left the scene and then something bad happened later they would probably be held accountable or at very least have a lot of explaining to do.
Joe Faust - 2014/11/12 01:17:53 UTC
Thank you so much, BobK.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosa_Parks
You mean the way Bob does whenever anything rubs him the wrong way?eagle - 2014/11/12 11:10:13 UTC
Just for the record ~ I was there Just after the altercation on Film .
I wanted to hang Out, as Normal 2nd Sunday Club function . but,... I had to step away and watch this Unfold.
I watched SDPD arrive, I'm Sure I would been arrested upon speaking Out or filming the incident.
The same thing is happening when speaking out against the many other Gliderport issues.
THREATS, DISCRIMINATION & TARGETING OF PILOTS.... (keeping ME/us Silent)
http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=3840This has been going on for I would say 25+ years.
Several times .. Over & Over
The same thing (and Worse) has happened to Me others with the Leaseholder David Jeb, Gliderport Management & Staff ....
The Same Gang of People running the port today.
Repeated Failure of our City leaders and Police authorities to take action
~ What Law & Order ~
Bob Kuczewski - 2013/03/10 18:20:34 UTC
I first learned about Tad Eareckson when I was Regional Director and the USHPA Board circulated a letter he had written (with intention to send?) to the FAA about some dangerous practices in hang gliding.
The Board's knee-jerk response was to try to take some kind of legal action to silence Tad. I indicated that I thought we shouldn't be sending our lawyers in as our first response, and that maybe we should have someone talk with him first. So Dennis Pagen volunteered, and I believe the matter was settled without any serious damage to the sport.
Go figure. Huge fuckin' state with a huge fuckin' population and terrain such that it's got flying sites coming out of its ass.Paraglider Collapse - 2014/11/12 09:26:52 UTC
First the drama at Fort Funston, now this at Torry Pines.
Seems the real problem is Californians.
1. Who's all of "US"?Steve Forslund - 2014/11/12 10:48:36 UTC
So Bob K has not stopped on his quest to lose the site for all of us.
Your hang gliding qualifications are fuckin' pathetic for someone who started in the Seventies, you're not even rated to fly a hang glider at Torrey which requires a Four but just a Three for para, and the place is totally controlled by para thugs.Stephan Forslund - 26985
- H3 - 2010/09/21 - Raymond Berger - FL 360
- P4 - 2005/05/16 - Brad Hill - FL ST CL FSL HA RLF RS TUR XC
Who gives a flying fuck? What does it matter whether it was primo, blown out, dead, or spilling from the east?Was it windy or turbulent, does not look to be.
How is what he was there for any of anybody's goddam business as long as he wasn't breaking any laws or violating any legitimate posted rules?Was Bob there to fly or stir up the pot.
1. Of course you do. You're too goddam lazy and stupid to read the background on why there are just still photos and no video with dialogue and Brian's report on the content after he watched the video.Wonder why just still photos and no video with dialogue...
1. Yeah, keep pulling stuff out of your ass, Steve. You really don't have much to draw on from the top end....perhaps some critique from the sidelines while they were trying to instruct?
Tom Emery - 2014/11/11 23:02:16 UTC
San Diego
Give 'em he.. Bob.
No it won't. He didn't delete the stuff about T** at K*** S****** and his "gun is always loaded" article on the unhooked launch issue 'cause he can't afford the serious backlash that would result.Paraglider Collapse - 2014/11/12 09:57:38 UTC
You know this will all be deleted as soon as sg checks in, don't you?
He REALLY can't afford to open his stupid mouth.Jack Axaopoulos - 2009/06/29 14:26:26 UTC
OMG!!! You dont even have wheels!!?!?!?!?
YOURE GONNA DIE FOR SUUUUREE!!!!
I have a brilliant idea. People who cant land for sh*t.... LEARN TO LANDThat way when a weak link breaks on you, ITS A NON-ISSUE. Genius huh???
Over here at K*** S****** IF I activate you then you can post pretty much anything you want relevant to hang gliding - and quite a bit that isn't.Sam Kellner - 2014/11/12 03:02:40 UTC
You are not allowed to post that link ushawkz, on this forum
HangGliding.org automatically alters the link.
Yeah, I love the way both of you control freaks cripple the discussions of your forum participants.Davis Straub - 2014/11/12 04:10:06 UTC
See oz report forum.
*YOU* banned Bob for no legitimate reason. *JACK* banned Bob for no legitimate reason. *I* banned Bob because of nonstop flagrant violations of the slight hint of rules we have here and astoundingly outrageous personal and totally irrelevant attacks. I also banned Sam because he's scum and I should've never activated him in the first place. Just did it in deference to Bob. And I didn't hear a whole lot of objection to either of those bannings - or OP's.Davis Straub - 2014/11/12 05:55:44 UTC
Like here, Bob Kuczewski is banned...
Which you didn't bother to check out before you posted a bunch of crap from an anonymous source about him....but I do link to his web site for the fascinating pictures from his video.
See the link in the other thread on this confrontation.
Paraglider Collapse - 2014/11/12 09:22:19 UTC
First the drama at Fort Funston, now this at Torry Pines.
Seems the real problem is Californians.
Wow, you guys are sure good at copying and pasting. Hey PG... You might wanna spell "Torrey" right before you go too nuts with this technology.Steve Forslund - 2014/11/12 10:50:48 UTC
So Bob K has not stopped on his quest to lose the site for all of us. Was it windy or turbulent, does not look to be. Was Bob there to fly or stir up the pot. Wonder why just still photos and no video with dialogue, perhaps some critique from the sidelines while they were trying to instruct?
But YOU've got something useful to do - make posts like this one.zamuro - 2014/11/12 12:49:26 UTC
New York
Looks to me that this is specifically related to this guy BK that apparently doesn't have anything useful to do.
Jack Axaopoulos - 2014/11/12 13:18:26 UTC
So he has been badgering the same people for years until they literally snap and lose their fricken minds, and then he compares himself to Rosa Parks. ROSA PARKS!?!?!?
The ego on that guy, wow.
Oh those poor people!!!So he has been badgering the same people for years...
Oh, is that what they did? You mean like Adam Lanza?...until they literally snap and lose their fricken minds...
Here's what he SAID:...and then he compares himself to Rosa Parks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qhT3Ws7WykBob Kuczewski - 2014/11/11 07:12:00 UTC
My friend arrived just about the time that I tied my glider to the roof of my van. I'd been thinking very long and hard about the choice in front of me. I thought about all the times that David Jebb and Gabe Jebb and Robin Marien had bullied people and threatened them with arrest. I thought about how they've always gotten away with it because everyone in the past (including myself) had always backed down. Then I thought about Rosa Parks. The choice was clear:
ASSHOLE.Bob Kuczewski - 2014/11/10
They gave me the choice of leaving the park or going to jail. I said you know what... There's a woman named Rosa Parks who stood up and brought the matter to court and that's what I'm doing.
Yeah Jack. Keep making posts like that. I hate Bob WAY more than I hate paragliders and look where I am right now. See how shit like that goes over in your dump.Dave Brose - 2014/11/12 13:18:55 UTC
Humboldt
Huh
1. No. *YOU* banned any mention of Bob.Jack Axaopoulos - 2014/11/12 13:20:50 UTC
All BobK mania is banned from this site.
I never saw any of his excrement on there - just posts ABOUT the situation. Maybe you could point it out to me.Keep his excrement off of here.
Yeah, the ones you gave everybody a fair say in formulating.Its in the site rules.
No. Here's what YOUR site rules say:Ill allow this one thread as a heads up to the community though.
Delete the fuckin' posts - IMMEDIATELY. Rules are rules. And if anybody over there who isn't a lying piece of shit wants to discuss the Bob Kuczewski / Torrey situation without interference or fear of censorship then come on over to K*** S******.HangGliding.Org Rules and Policies
No posts or links about Bob K, Scott C Wise, Tad Eareckson and related people, or their material. ALL SUCH POSTS WILL BE IMMEDIATELY DELETED. These people are poison to this sport and are permanently banned from this site in every possible way imaginable.
Yeah, and your buddy Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney is always amazed...Brad Barkley - 2014/11/12 14:13:14 UTC
I'm always amazed to see people who love drama.
...to hear us weekend muppets arguing with professional pilots. But the credibility of his professional pilot crowd just went permanently irrevocably down the toilet and we muppets are totally on top now.Jim Rooney - 2011/08/25 04:55:25 UTC
Ditto dude.
It always amazes to hear know it all pilots arguing with the professional pilots.
I mean seriously, this is our job.
We do more tows in a day than they do in a month (year for most).
We *might* have an idea of how this stuff works.
They *might* do well to listen.
Not that they will, mind you... cuz they *know*.
Suck my dick, Brad.And Rosa Parks? Really?
Name some...Jeff Roberson (Ridgerunner) - 2014/11/12 14:36:59 UTC
Looks to me like a messenger got shot
...who don't.Zack C - 2010/10/15 13:25:50 UTC
Speaking of which, while I can fault Tad's approach, I can't fault his logic, nor have I seen anyone here try to refute it. You may not like the messenger, but that is no reason to reject the message. I've already stated why I'm not adopting lift-and-tug...what about the rest of you? I'm asking because it doesn't look like Tad will stop until he sees the changes he's advocating or is banned. Before the latter happens, maybe the former deserves a chance.
Sunday I performed a hang check at Pack, stepped onto the ramp, and proceeded to wait for a lull in which to launch. Due to this discussion I realized at this point how dangerous it was for me to assume I was hooked in. It's like assuming it's OK to lock your car because you remember putting your keys in your pocket a few minutes ago, only the consequences of being wrong are much worse than a call to AAA.
That's at the absolute bottom of a huge and critically serious list those motherfuckers need to step in on.When Dangerous Dave, one of the baddest of the bad-boy e-teamers, first moved to Utah a couple decades ago, I remember he fancied flying without a helmet. I was one of the local pilots who confronted him on this one day. We told him that the Point of the Mountain was a USHGA insured site and that helmets were required. He didn't put up too much of a fuss and has since gone on to become one of most respected pilots in the area. Although Dave has some of the most impressive flying skills of any pilot I've ever met (and I've known quite a few who have lived in the SLC area including Larry Tudor, Dave Sharp, Paris Williams, Jeff O'Brian, etc.), that's no excuse - he is an imperfect human being who must obey the rules just like everyone else.
If I saw an instructor teaching without a helmet, I'd say something for sure (and would be right in doing so). If he refused to comply, I would continue to insist (and would hopefully receive the support of all my peers).
Does this Gabe fellow really teach without a helmet on a regular basis and does the site actually allow this? Flying without a helmet is bad - instructing without a helmet is MUCH worse. If the folks running the Torrey site are allowing instructors to teach without a helmet, (and it appears that they are), then I think the USHPA should certainly step in to correct this situation if they can.
The helmet thing is totally incidental bullshit. Somebody getting handcuffed and hauled off to jail for taking pictures in a public park is fuckin' MAJOR.I've never met this Bob fellow, but his message appears to be squarely in the right.
And, just like Bob, ZERO hook-in checks. That issue totally dwarfs the helmet bullshit and you'd be using that as an example if you didn't have your head so far up your ass as to make a helmet both totally superfluous and extra uncomfortable.Just my 2-cents after 33 years doing this HG foot launch thing.
Big fuckin' deal. Both of these sports have much better things to worry about than helmets. When we get into situations in which we need them they tend not to do any good.Oh yeah and kiting *is* flying in my book - even on flat ground.
