The Bob Show

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=39919
Bob Kuczewski's video log

Tormod Helgesen - 2014/11/16 13:09:33 UTC
Oslo

I'm sorry I clicked on that link...

Whatever you're sorry about I'm happy about. Please continue.

...should have come with a Tad-warning.

Well, now you'll know that "Kite Strings" IS a Tad-warning - assuming you're actually capable of learning anything (you brain dead little Jack and Davis Shows twat).

Most of his rants are beyond crazy.

1. How do you know? When you clicked on that link I had 5277 rants at Tad's Hole in the Ground. You've read most of them but needed a Tad-warning for http://www.kitestrings.org/post7007.html#p7007 ?

2. I'd like to improve my rants. Which ones AREN'T beyond crazy? I think I can probably edit them to bring them up to standard.

3. Maybe you can get your buddy...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Tormod Helgesen - 2011/08/28 10:21:06 UTC

Jim, I don't agree with ridgerodent (and Tad is an idiot) and you are very experienced in towing so I won't try to teach you anything about that.

...Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney to come out from his Hole in the Ground and post something on this controversy.

4. Interested at all in the victim's take? Here's what I found on my iPhone when I fired it up last evening:

Bob Kuczewski - 2014/11/12 20:05 UTC

Hello Tad, this is Bob. I'm possibly duplicating my message from earlier. I called the home phone but it wasn't clear if that was your number still or not. I was basically calling to say that I know that we disagree and... uh... on a lot of things and... uh... I know that in many ways, I don't think we'll ever resolve a lot of our conflicts but at the same time I really do appreciate you standing up for what you felt was right regarding the situation at Torrey and... uh... I do appreciate it. Feel free to call any time, my line is always open. Best wishes. Bye.

5. Don't believe I've heard you say anything of any substance on this issue. Got anything to say of any substance on this issue?

John - 2014/11/14 03:26:47 UTC

Arrogance beyond belief. And this from a supposedly master rated pilot. I'm surprised that some others haven't commented on this. Especially those of you on this thread who seem to defend the actions taken or should I say directed at Bob.

Brad Barkley, Alan Deikman, Russ Brown, Dan DeWeese, NMERider, Pat Halfhill, Steve Forslund, Tormod Helgesen.

P.S. motherfucker...

Maybe if it's not too much trouble you can quote stuff from the hatchet job I did on Rich Hass and tell us what's beyond crazy and why.

P.P.S. Motherfucker.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=39919
Bob Kuczewski's video log

Bille Floyd - 2014/11/16 17:22:42 UTC

...kitetrings.(OMG--thats Fn "screwed-up")/post #...

PLEASE DON'T DO THAT AGAIN !!!!!

I have no freakin' clue where that's coming from and what you're trying to say.

Brian Scharp - 2014/11/16 18:46:38 UTC

I'm sorry I clicked on that link, should have come with a Tad-warning.

It did. Don't click on anything with http://www.kitestrings.org and you should be fine.

I like the one line zingers.

What do you think your clip-in weight would be if you included a functional brain?

Sorry, can't take credit for those. Got some really cool one line zinger software. Just feed in the quotes and it spits them out.

Tormod Helgesen - 2014/11/16 20:29:42 UTC

Brianscharp:
What was the warning here? "Kite"? "strings"? the combination of those two words? the fact that ridgerodent posted the link? I'm not familiar with all the filth on the web, and I don't go around remembering domain names that I don't visit.

- There's shitloads of stuff with which you're not familiar and don't go around remembering, Tormod.

- I'm REALLY confused here. You're not familiar with and don't visit Kite Strings but you know it's all filth and that most of Tad's rants are beyond crazy. So you're gifted with some strange selective flavor of clairvoyance?

- But I guess you've really found your niches with the Jack and Davis Shows flavor of filth on the web.

- Ridgerodent has identified himself as...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Ridgerodent - 2011/08/25 05:48:31 UTC

Steve Davy - 88875

...Steve Davy. Try doing this:

glider "Steve Davy"

Google search.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25015
Zippy pounds in

Davis Straub - 2011/09/02 18:37:09 UTC

Concussions are in fact very serious and have life long effects. The last time I was knocked out what in 9th grade football. I have felt the effects of that ever since. It changes your wiring.

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1041
"Sharing" of Hang Gliding Information ?!?

Merlin - 2012/05/26 13:22:30 UTC

I confess to previously having a bit of an Oz Report habit, but the forced login thing has turned me off permanently, and I am in fact grateful. Frankly, the site had pretty much been reduced to a few dedicated sycophants in any case.

I've seen many times the destructive consequences of "control freaks".

Right about your speed, Tormod. Excellent fit for your walnut sized brain.

P.S., asshole. Kite Strings is a BIG presence on the hang gliding web. Not many participants but it gets read A LOT.

Brian Scharp - 2014/11/16 21:01:13 UTC

You're right, I'm sorry you didn't know and got totally blindsided.

That asshole is perpetually blindsided by two plus two equals four.

Bill Cummings - 2014/11/16 21:22:32 UTC

Torrey Pines

Inspired by a law suite a settlement was reached between the Coastal Law Enforcement Action Network (C.L.E.A.N.) vs City of San Diego CA
The third thing agreed to by the City Of San Diego was:
"C." Establish a Torrey Pines City Park Advisory Board.

City charter 43A was already in place spelling out the rules about how this had to be done.

The City of San Diego, CA failed to follow the "Settlement" and instead inserted 43B which has to do with committees that are subject to a Sun Set clause.

There are only two reasons that this could have happened. Ineptitude and/or corruption.

City of San Diego also failed to post for bids when the concession's lease ran out. The concessionaire is now paying nothing and there is no way anyone could compete. The appearance of impropriety is screaming for justice.

Who would be benefiting from kick back?
Who would be benefiting by passing money under the table?

Council Women Sherri Lightner is unapproachable and she is one that is in control with issues that arise at Torrey Pines. She will not listen.

It's a City Park. Why are the Citizens excluded from any form of oversight?

The two strongest clues for the clueless pilots posting out there is corruption and money.

The reason U$hPA will not help is because every PG joy ride being sold at Torrey Pines, UShPA gets a cut of the money.
Hang gliders are getting in the way of the concessionaire and the not for profit U$hPA money trail.
That is the motive for the under the table dealings.
What other reason could there be?

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=39919
Bob Kuczewski's video log

Jim Gaar - 2014/11/17 00:51:20 UTC

Clear as mud...

...UShPA gets a cut of the money...

By that you mean through the receipt of membership dues, correct?

Bill Cummings - 2014/11/17 03:16:58 UTC

Yes. For a joy ride more times than not.

You mean like at an aerotow park?

Steve Forslund - 2014/11/17 04:15:38 UTC

This is probably the way to grow hang gliding. Way more paraglider would try/take up hang gliding if their perception wasn't it is a bunch of cranky oid men that don't even fly.

Any thoughts on reasons people qualified to fly don't?

Thankfully I know that's not true and would not care even it were, flying prone is a blast and lots of fun pilots out there.

Fun...

37-23223
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3713/9655904048_89cce6423a_o.png


...guys anyway.

Steve Davy - 2014/11/17 05:51:12 UTC

I hope you're able to fully recover from your posttraumatic stress disorder resulting from clicking on that link, Tormod!

Whatever he has he didn't get it from clicking on that link and don't hold your breath waiting for him to recover.

Tormod Helgesen - 2014/11/17 06:17:14 UTC

I'm not sure if that's even possible, but thanks for the concern ridgerodent.

Have you considered suicide?

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15337
unhooked take off clip

Tormod Helgesen - 2010/02/13 17:08:06 UTC

I don't belive in gremlins unhooking my harness while walking to launch (usually 5-30 meters) and if my launch is interrupted I redo my check.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Tormod Helgesen - 2011/08/28 15:04:22 UTC

Weaklinks have saved my ass to, the annoyance of a broken weaklink is a small thing compared to the safety factor. If you can't tow with a low strenght weaklink, you shouldn't tow at all.

Both of those strategies have worked quickly and painlessly for others in the past.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1629
Jailed for taking pictures at Torrey

Bob Kuczewski - 2014/11/17 06:45:09 UTC

WOW!!! Nine posts in a row ... and none of them are by "bobk".

WOW!!! Over here dealing with this situation there've been - as of this one - forty posts in a row ... and ALL of them have been by "Tad Eareckson". And you've gotten covering fire from one or two Kite Strings people out on the mainstream as well.

That might be a new US Hawks record!!!

Might be a Strings record too - but there's not a snowball's chance in hell that it actually is - unfortunately.

Thanks for all the great thoughts and comments.

I don't feel like dissecting them now. Mostly stuff that's already been said and mostly said first by Yours Truly.

It's late, and I've met with three lawyers already this week, so I'm too tired to do justice to any of your comments right now. But thanks to everyone who's posted here or anywhere else in the name of fairness. Thanks very very much.

I think I've done enough work on this and given you enough support and the thugs faction enough hell to get a specific public acknowledgement.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1629
Jailed for taking pictures at Torrey

Bob Kuczewski - 2014/11/17 18:24:13 UTC

OK, It's Monday morning and time to catch up a bit ...

Rich Hass sent that long message I posted earlier basically wiggling out of taking any action at Torrey. And for clarification, I had replied with what *I* would have written if I were a Director or President of USHPA (in case anyone was confused).

Anybody on YOUR forum confused? Hard to believe.

I had planned to write a detailed rebuttal to Rich Hass (and I still will), but while I was doing that, Rich discovered that he was about to get caught in another lie regarding me accepting compensation for testifying in a legal case. Here's his "apology":

Everyone,

I would like to clarify a comment I made regarding Bob's relationship as an expert witness in the lawsuit against the Gliderport.

Why bother? It was totally fuckin' irrelevant to begin with.

It was my understanding, Bob initially agreed to accept compensation. I now understand, Bob was offered compensation but is not accepting it. I apologize for the error.

OK, now apologize for bringing an issue like that up at all.

Aside from the question of compensation, the reason for my raising the expert witness subject is unchanged.

No shit.

That is, Bob's role as an expert witness in a lawsuit against the Gliderport may well have been a factor in why Gabriel responded to Bob filming his students...

He was filming Gabe's students? That's what Bob was interested in?



Looks to me like he was filming the LESSON and from everything he's said on this incident it sounds like his interest and focus was the INSTRUCTOR.

...the way he did.

Which way was that? While he was simultaneously aiming a flame thrower at him?

I'm not condoning Gabriel's behavior; just...

...trying to make absurd, outrageous excuses for it and struggling to represent him as a really great guy pushed beyond any hope of tolerance...

...trying to shed some light on the context - which has been missing.

...while struggling to paint Bob as the real aggressor here and someone who totally got what he deserved.

Please do not forward my earlier email.

Too late. And I won't be taking my copy down EITHER. Will probably stay up on The Davis Show as well. And really great job staying tuned into the wires to stay properly abreast of what's going on!

I have no interest in mischaracterizing Bob's arrangement as an expert witness against the Gliderport.

1. Why? Because you discovered you wouldn't be able to get away with it?
2. But you're still totally cool with trying to use it as a mitigating factor on the assault and battery, false arrest, suspension issues.

Once again, I apologize for the error.

Once again, fuck you.

Thanks,
Rich

So where did Rich get the misinformation that he used in his original message? And why did he speak without first getting all the facts?

Why didn't ANY of you motherfuckers on the 2009 BOD...

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=463
Davis Straub's "Oz Report" Conflict of Interest

Bob Kuczewski - 2011/02/12 06:56:36 UTC

Without naming names (I'm curious to see if they'll own up to it first), on May 10, 2009, one Director wrote:

We need to consider getting an injunction against this guy communicating with the FAA on this subject.

That same day, another Director responded:

I forwarded the letter to Tim Herr yesterday asking about this.

For those who don't know, Tim Herr is ... USHPA's lawyer!!

A third Director (who I'll call "Mr. X") chimed in that same day with this:

Perhaps a strongly worded letter from Tim will do the trick. We can't force Tad to work within the USHPA framework but we can make it unpleasant and expensive for him if he chooses to makes derogatory and false statements about USHPA to the FAA he can't back up.

...bother reading one single word of either the AT SOPs revision your Towing Committee Chairman asked me to prepare or the draft letter to the FAA that I posted after y'all had pissed all over me for awhile?

This is the kind of "shoot first, get the facts later" leadership that we have at USHPA. It's both disgusting and disappointing.

Big surprise.

Thankfully, my emailbox has been filled with more than the doublespeak from Rich Hass. Here are a few comments that I've gotten (with identifying information removed):

How come it's just your mailbox that's been filled? How come these comments haven't been publicly posted with identifying information included?

To be continued...

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1629
Jailed for taking pictures at Torrey

Ten messages, not gonna bother with eight of them.

Bob Kuczewski - 2014/11/17 18:24:13 UTC

Another pilot...

...T** at K*** S******...

...wrote:

What you're dealing with at Torrey with your PG s***s...

I prefer to not have my "hit"s replaced with asterisks.

...is EXACTLY what I was dealing with at ....

Or my "Ridgely" with periods. How come you feel those motherfuckers deserve anonymity?

The harassment wasn't as severe but the "suspension" was lifetime (same as for my local club) - also without a hint of a legitimate pretense of cause.

That one needed work. No such thing as a legitimate pretense.

That was a gutsy move and the right thing to do and I'll back you to the hilt on it ...

So what was your reason for chopping off:

...and deal with all of your enemies in the appropriate manner. (Finding myself aligned with a lot of people I'd much rather not be on this one. And note that Orion Price isn't standing shoulder to shoulder with you.)

Best o' luck on it.

I'd have rather had my name on it and the entire content posted. Guess as far as that's concerned...

Rich Hass - 2014/11/14

If you or anyone chooses to cross-post or quote from my response, please post it in its entirety.

...I'm on the same page with Rich.

Yet another pilot (with a few cosmetic changes and identifying information omitted) wrote:

Bill Bennett had me arrested back in 1992-ish for similar s***. Nothing changes up there... Good luck. If I were you I'd sue the crap out of that place.

Funny, my experience was almost the same. After Bill Bennett told me I was banned indefinitely for no reason I showed up the next day and flew anyway. Cops were there when I landed. [identifying information omitted] I also had the concessionaire's agreement ready to go but the cops didn't care. Arrested me anyway. [name omitted] came down and bailed me out with my own money later that evening. I didn't fly Torrey for years after that until Bill Bennett was gone. UP was in charge for a while but once Jebb showed up things went back to the same old s***.

Not a big fan of either of those Bill pioneers. Dumb opportunistic waterski jocks. Seem to have been trapped in the tone they set and will likely stay trapped for all eternity.

By the way, I've turned down several offers for monetary assistance, but I do appreciate the thoughts and support they represent.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1629
Jailed for taking pictures at Torrey

Bob Kuczewski - 2014/11/17 20:43:09 UTC

The correspondence with Rich Hass continues:

After I had sent Rich the letter that he should have sent me, I replied to his "gag order" request with this:

How 'bout including time stamps so's we get the whole picture of what's going on?

Rich,

Maybe you should check the facts BEFORE you make provably false...

...totally irrelevant anyway...

...statements about people. Your message is already posted:

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1629
Jailed for taking pictures at Torrey

I'm sorry, but you can't "erase" your mistakes and cover up your incompetence. You either made that up (lied yourself) or relied on someone else who lied to you. Now if it's the latter case, and you want to reveal who misled you, then I'll be happy to reflect that. But if your aren't willing to divulge the source of your misinformation, then you will stand as either a liar or a protector of liars. The choice is yours.

Rich, as a bit of personal advice, you'll find that you won't have to apologize nearly so often if you get your facts straight before you start spouting off about things that you don't know.

Bob Kuczewski

Of course, Rich wasn't going to tell me where he got his misinformation, so I got this from him instead:

You are right - I can't erase my earlier mistake. All I can do is correct it and ask that my incorrect statement not be disseminated.

You can ask that but it's pretty pointless after it's already gone out onto the web.

I've done this. I didn't post my message on your forum (or any forum) - you did, knowing it was inaccurate...

Yeah, funny how that works. You really oughta spend more time online so you understand how this stuff works.

...and knowing I had already apologized and corrected my misstatement.

This is why you should post time stamps, Bob. Would really help us to figure out who's doing what.

If you chose...

...to...

...post an inaccurate statement of mine, knowing it was inaccurate and knowing that I corrected my statement...

When? I notice you're not saying anything like "two and a half hours prior to your post."

...then who is it that is being less than honest? You deliberately brought this on yourself.

Just like at Torrey.

Yes, I should have done a better job of fact-checking when I said you agreed to serve as a (paid) expert witness.

Why should you have said anything at all about him being an expert witness?

How long have you quietly been serving as an expert witness against the Gliderport? One year? Two years?

Obviously not long and effectively enough.

I'm sorry I didn't ask better questions at the time.

Me too. If you weren't a total douchebag you wouldn't have been asking crap questions like those. You'd have been asking the gliderport thugs if they denied harassing, abusing, physically assaulting Bob, untying his glider, and having co-opted the police into making an unwarranted and illegal arrest.

My belief that you were being paid as an expert witness stems from my understanding that USHPA's insurance policy (in part) was having to pay for your deposition against the Gliderport and its instructors.

From what/where/whom did you gain that understanding and how would it have been relevant?

Expert witnesses are typically compensated.

Is that in the USHGA SOPs?

I was told your deposition would be an expense for USHPA's insurance carrier...

By whom?

...and I mistakenly understood you initially accepted the plaintiff's offer of compensation.

Why?

I stand corrected and I've set the record straight.

As far as you've gone.

Against my wishes, you've chosen to post my earlier email on your forum without the courtesy of noting I had already corrected my error.

1. Neither one of you motherfuckers is providing time stamps.

2. Aw, for taking pictures at a public park Bob got physically assaulted by the goons at your paragliding operation, arrested, and thrown into jail and Bob posted the stupid abusive crap you wrote in its entirety on the web. I feel your pain.

So much for truth and transparency.

1. He's posted your correction on his forum.
2. What's stopping you from posting whatever you like in USHGA's forum? Or, failing that, Bob's?

Speaking of spouting off about things you don't know, you are the one testifying as an expert witness on flight parks...

Richard Hass - 62602 - P4 - 1998/09/01 - Mike Eberle - FL PA CL FSL HA RLF RS TUR XC

Robert Kuczewski - California - 81898
- H4 - 2005/09/13 - Steve Stackable - FL AWCL CL FSL RLF TUR
- P4 - 2006/04/11 - Ken Baier - FL CL FSL HA RLF RS TUR

So how many hang gliding hours you got at Torrey - asshole?

Rich H.

You'll notice the recurring theme of Rich trying to discredit the act of speaking up - either on the forum or in a court room.

By example as well.

He's trying to taint me with money when I've said that I would NOT accept any money for my testimony. If Rich checks the facts, he'll find that I've been adamant about not accepting any money for my work. I specifically requested that any check should be made out to a reputable non-profit organization (I'll leave their name out of it).

American Family Association? Westboro Baptist Church? Why?

The Gliderport lawyers tried to put the check in my name suggesting that I should then turn it over to the non-profit, but I predicted that they would try to smear me if the money even touched my hands. Rich Hass has proven my prediction to be true.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1629
Jailed for taking pictures at Torrey

Bill Cummings - 2014/11/17 23:57:28 UTC

Bob, the city council meetings that Margie provided (thanks so much for your time and effort Margie) is proof positive that the City of San Diego is corrupt in their dealings with the law suit settlement regarding the Torrey Pines Advisory Board.

It is my wish that you would lock the heels in at least civil court of the individual that had you falsely arrested. Then go after the police in court.
Use that money to tie up those protagonists in court so that their bottom line is affected.
That is the only language a business person understands.
You have to hit their bottom line. That is the only persuasion that will focus their attention.
The City Council and Mayor has proven to be corrupt and useless.

I can't drive out there with my Pom Pomes (sp?)...

Pom-poms. Learn to use a fuckin' dictionary. Or at least use some common fuckin' sense when you're guessing.

...and cheer. But just like the other guy I would like to match his two hundred dollar offer to defray some of your legal expenses. You are doing work that benefits all pilots.

Lemme know how it's benefiting me. Bob never lifted a finger to protect my right to do the kind of flying that I wanted to do safely, legally, and within practical range. Quite the contrary.

Work that U$hPA should be doing.
If you send me a PM with your address no one will know that you did or that I responded.
I need to help in the only way that I can. After all you are not doing this just for you - you are doing it for me too.

Not for me. But DEFINITELY for all of the people of varying ages pursuing this sport.

Rick Masters - 2014/11/18 04:33:56 UTC

Bill Cummings - 2014/11/17 23:57:28 UTC

Then go after the police in court.

Hands off the good guys, fellas.

Don't you mean, "Hands off the good fellas, guys."?

Eyes on the ball. The concessionaire was responsible. He dragged the cops into this mess.

Fuck you, Rick. They're dirty as hell. Dickhead.

Bob Kuczewski - 2014/11/18 05:21:32 UTC

I generally agree with the sentiment that the police are the "good guys".

Yeah, you would.

They work in a very difficult profession - one of the few left today where the loss of your own life remains relatively unmitigated.

They're really well armed. My guess is that they take a whole lot more in the way of innocent life than they suffer.

They deal with some of the most rotten, lying people on the planet ... every day.

And...
- A lot of them ARE some of the most rotten, lying people on the planet.
- They have long histories of brutalizing a lot of the best people on the planet.

My hat is off to them for doing that.

Yeah, I guess they target a lot of the people you really want targeted.

But having said that, I did present the officers with these facts which they ignored:
- 1. The lease says the public shall not be wholly or permanently prohibited from any portion of the premises.
- 2. I had a video tape of the incident which I asked them to look at and they refused.
- 3. I cited precedents where previous police officers had told me I had a right to be there and to take pictures of anything I wanted.

I would say that constitutes a failure to perform their due diligence in the matter.

I'd say it goes WAY beyond that.

I quoted the lease and offered to bring it up on my cell phone. I told them that I had a short video of the incident, and they refused to look at that either. I told them that I'd been told by other officers that I was able to be on the property and take pictures.

Didn't you just already say all that?

They didn't care.

Don't get me wrong. Robin Marien and the Jebbs (Gabe and David) are clearly the problem Torrey. But these particular officers did not exercise good judgement in this case.

They exercised very calculated and deliberate judgment and have no business being police officers.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=39919
Bob Kuczewski's video log

Darkcloud - 2014/11/17 16:26:27 UTC

The "business" of selling paragliding at Torrey? Just speculating based on various internet threads...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec

Jim Rooney - 2013/03/07 18:24:58 UTC

You're the one speculating on Zack's death... not me.
Hell, you've even already come to your conclusions... you've made up your mind and you "know" what happened and what to do about.
It's disgusting and you need to stop.

Brian McMahon - 2014/11/17 18:37:42 UTC

This is the way Torrey works:

The lessee is/was David Jebb. He is granted a free lease (ten years, but now approaching fifteen years on a year to year basis) by the city of San Diego to operate a concession on the park property with the goal of maintaining a safe flight park for foot launched gliders, sail planes, and RC gliders. David no longer runs the concession, Robin Marien is the Flight Director there now and operates the concession.

The concession and lease was initially created with the goal of keeping a flight park there when liability concerns came up and there was a potential that the city would shut the flight operations down. Over the years, the business of flight at the park has changed. It was once an Advanced-only HG site, with little or no training activity. It has become a PG training site, but the primary source of revenue have got to be the tandem flights. On a busy day, there will be dozens of tandem joyrides, maybe over a hundred on some days.

Just like AT parks.

So the site has had several problems:

Friction between HG and PG over safety issues and personalities.
Lack of oversight, the City of San Diego has all but abandoned the park.
The terms of the lease are violated and there is no recourse because the city has abandoned the park.

Nobody wants to see the site shut down. Many pilots are perfectly happy with the status quo.

Fuck anybody in that category.

But for the pilots that are disgruntled, there is no recourse because the city has abandoned the park.

One of the most egregious violations of the lease are the schedule of fees on page 31 (http://takebacktorrey.com/docs/lease/LEASE.HTM). The outside tandem fee is $25 + $5 for the normal daily flight fee. These fees cannot be changed without the permission of the City Manager or his authorized representative per section 7.14 (page 23). There is no record of approval for changing of the fees within the city of San Diego Park and Rec or the Real Estate Assets department, yet if you go to Torrey, the fees are all different. Robin has stated that he can charge what ever he wants to, regardless of the lease.

To force out competing Tandem pilots, he charges them $150 to fly a tandem flight, unless he likes you, then you might get it at $75 or $50 or whatever he decides. There is no oversight, the city has abandoned the park. They don't even care that the lease is five years overdue or that the concession makes a bunch of money for no fee. They don't care about anything to do with the park as long as they aren't involved in lawsuits. All of the talking Bob has done to the Mayors and the City Council have amounted to very little, because they just don't care about the park or what goes on there. Torrey is a virtual monopoly for the Concessionaire for free and no oversight at all. The USHPA doesn't want anything to do with even safety oversight; they will defer to the Flight Director because it is not a USHPA insured site.

Andrew Vanis - 2014/11/17 20:33:28 UTC

Maybe a concerned citizen of the municipality can claim damages for lack of fiduciary responsibility against the city. The citizen is paying taxes that support this park and the city is not being prudent in the utilization of this resource. That is a reasonable claim that could be taken to small claims court for very little money on the citizen's part and I'm sure it would raise awareness of the issue and force the municipality to act.

Another approach might be to challenge the no-bid contract allocation of public resource - typically a no-no in municipality fiscal and operation procedure.

Darkcloud - 2014/11/17 21:46:41 UTC

Perhaps dozens of small claims court lawsuits in an attempt to recoup what is charged above and beyond what the lease allows might get the concessionaire's attention. It appears as though someone has lost sight of the fact that they don't own this site.

Just like the pieces of shit that took over Ridgely. Go to:
http://aerosports.net/
and try to find anything about site rules, guidelines, protocols. Fuckin' ZILCH. That way they can make up anything and ban anyone they feel like on the spot. Hope they all rot in hell.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=32059
Torrey Incident, should USHPA get involved?

Dennis Cavagnaro - 2014/11/13 14:46:04 UTC

No one is defending Bob...

Yeah. NO ONE is defending Bob. Fuckin' moron.

...but no one should be defending the Jebbs either.

Both parties equally at fault.

City parks should be open to all. Its not that hard.

Asshole.

Davis Straub - 2014/11/14 01:37:59 UTC

Come to Quest Air. No drama there.

Nah...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-bRrpHNa68iY/UQ6Pv9gRZyI/AAAAAAAAjTg/Hc22bx5122Q/s2048/20943781_BG1.jpg


Course not. Really sharp operators, everyone's got his shit totally together, and everyone's...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24534
It's a wrap

Davis Straub - 2011/07/30 19:51:54 UTC

I'm very happy with the way Quest Air (Bobby Bailey designed) does it now.

Kinsley Sykes - 2011/07/30 21:09:42 UTC

Me too.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks

Jim Rooney - 2013/03/03 19:37:19 UTC

My response is short because I've been saying it for years... and yes, I'm a bit sick of it.
This is a very old horse and has been beaten to death time and time again... by a very vocal minority.

See, most people are happy with how we do things. This isn't an issue for them. They just come out and fly. Thing's aren't perfect, but that's life... and life ain't perfect. You do what you can with what you've got and you move on.

...very happy with the way they do things. And anybody who isn't...

But then there's a crowd that "knows better". To them, we're all morons that can't see "the truth".
(Holy god, the names I've been called.)

I have little time for these people.

It saddens me to know that the rantings of the fanatic fringe mask the few people who are actually working on things. The fanaticism makes it extremely hard to have a conversation about these things as they always degrade into arguments. So I save the actual conversations for when I'm talking with people in person.

...can go back to Tad's Hole in the Ground and fuck himself.

California (where I am for two more weeks) is nuts.

How nuts was it BEFORE you and you're altered brain wiring got there?

Robert Moore - 2014/11/17 01:14:19 UTC

In terms of HG, the relatively few urban sites are gonna have more rules, off-putting personalities and congestion than the countless other unregulated sites spanning the entire state. Don't want to pay fees, sign your life away, or deal with lots of other pilots? Fly all the other sites and forget about it!

Yeah, if a hang glider pilot shows up at a public park to meet with people, fly, take pictures and gets physically assaulted and dragged off to jail in handcuffs for doing nothing other than that... Fuckit. Not your problem.

Fuck you, Robert.

Eric Beckman (Skyvine) - 2014/11/17 04:42:40 UTC
NorCal

Totally agree!

Totally!

RM got it right in describing the state. The "city" sites can be great, but also insanely frustrating with the people who are liable to show up to fly. The vast majority of CA flying sites are away from the attraction to pilots uninspired to make the effort to get to them...

Yeah. It takes EFFORT to get to them. Work, time, expense, fossil fuel but - what the hell - everyone has infinite reserves of all that stuff.

...and the pilots who frequent the more remote sites are much more likely to welcome others with open arms than to create conflict.

Yeah, no commercial interests controlling everybody, no narrow short packed lift bands everything's great for everybody!

Seek and ye shall find!

Asshole.

Doug Doerfler - 2014/11/17 19:25:30 UTC

There are alot of sites in Northern Cal that are on city/county/state/fed land.
The controlling body gives control of HG/PG to a non profit, local club that is run for recreational flying by recreational flyers.

In many of these commercial operations are not even permitted.

Having a flying site on public land where control is given to a commercial operation is a complete disaster.

Once again I point to Ridgely / Highland Aerosports. And I welcomed those motherfuckers with open arms at the beginning of the 1999 season and did everything I could to help get them established.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec

Jim Rooney - 2013/02/17 10:37:47 UTC

I'm not sure who you're arguing with Zack, but it's sure not me... cuz man... you've got some pretty big hangups mate.

Ra ra ra... burn the greenspot!!!!
Get real man.
You think that's all we use?
Hell, just in this thread, you seem to have missed the 200lb orange links.
Ah, but your strawman argument lives and breaths by your black and white hyperbole.
When you come back to reality, let me know.
Till then, I'm sick of it.

You're hear to argue. Plain and simple. I've got better stuff to do.
Go blow smoke somewhere else. I couldn't give a rats ass... I won't be towing you so what do I care?

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks

Jim Rooney - 2013/03/05 19:42:58 UTC

I'm tired of arguing with crazy.
As I said many times... there are those that listen with the intent of responding... you unfortunately are one.

You've done a great job of convincing me never to tow you.
Thank you for that.
Mission accomplished.

What kind of SCUM signs off scum like that on ANYTHING?

NMERider - 2014/11/17 19:38:25 UTC

Speaking of public lands and public parks, let's talk about Little League Baseball. If anyone thinks the power struggle between Bob Quixote and the Torrey Windmills is comedic...

I totally DON'T, Jonathan. And I have very little regard for anyone who DOES. And I don't even trust Bob enough to talk to him on the phone so it's gonna be pretty tough to accuse me of any kind of bias.

...you should learn about the warring factions that try to take over the concessions for youth baseball leagues.

An acquaintance of mine told me that the food concessions can generate over $100K profit in a single year run by one individual. Come to think of it, there are a tremendous number of organized youth sports leagues that may have both a non-profit and for-profit component or aspect. All of this takes place in public parks and very often the local residents are excluded from large portions of said parks during the games.

I can only imagine all the pissing contests and lawsuits that go on each day over these public park power struggles. Just some food for thought. Free of charge, mind you!

fly,surf,&ski - 2014/11/17 20:57:12 UTC
Torrey Pines

Doug Doerfler - 2014/11/17 19:25:30 UTC

Having a flying site on public land where control is given to a commercial operation is a complete disaster.

This pretty much describes the history of the Torrey Pines Gliderport.

And Highland Aerosports.

The script stays the same just the characters change.
That being said things have gotten better since Mr Jebb has removed himself from at least the day to day operations of the flight park.

They've gotten BETTER? There were incidents more outrageous than this one happening in the past?

Brian McMahon - 2014/11/17 21:19:14 UTC

I think a commercial operation is OK on the park, but there has to be city oversight. The success of the concession that David Jebb built through his own hard work has ended up running over some pilots.

If it runs over SOME it's really running over ALL.

Because there is no authoritative oversight of any kind, the concession continues to get away with unfair practices and attempts to exclude people they don't like. I don't begrudge them their success, but I do object to them violating the terms of the lease with no repercussions whatsoever.

2014/11/17 21:54:51 UTC - 3 thumbs up - NMERider

Pick one, Jonathan.

Dave Pendzick - 2014/11/18 00:01:58 UTC
Oregon

I have been reading this thread & fail to grasp what the exact point is... I never saw the video in question but from what I have read I am guessing its regarding an instructor being harrassed for kiting with no helmet???

How has this has morphed into a question of wether or not USHPA or the FAA should be involved in regulating the Snack Bar at Torrey Pines?

Someone please explain to me because I am lost.

No shit and big surprise. Fuckin' halfwit.

Mel Torres - 2014/11/18 01:30:24 UTC

This drama is worse than the real house wives of new jersey or which ever crap house wife show you and your wife watch.

I just figured out that I despise people who use the word "drama" with respect to hang gliding conflicts.

Move on, set up, fly, land, break down, and go home. If you don't like what's going on there, then stay away.

Yeah...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/31 09:25:57 UTC

Love it or leave it.

Love it or leave it. Fuck you, Mel.

Torrey pines is over rated anyways.

1. "Pines" is supposed to be capitalized and "overrated" is one word.

2. By whom? What is its rating? Where can I go to read what the rating is? Torrey Pines is as valuable a site as anyone who wants to fly there feels it is. And there've been a lot of people who've fought real hard at high cost for the right to fly it. So go fuck yourself.

2014/11/18 03:26:44 UTC - 3 thumbs up - Jack Barth

You too, Jack.