You are NEVER hooked in.

General discussion about the sport of hang gliding
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Tad Eareckson
Posts: 9161
Joined: 2010/11/25 03:48:55 UTC

Re: You are NEVER hooked in.

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=32102
Fabio's FTHI
Flyingseb - 2014/11/24 20:52:23 UTC
Tom Lyon - 2014/11/24 05:43:48 UTC

He mentioned on his FB page that he made the mistake because he stopped to adjust the GoPro.
At least he get a good picture!
2014/11/24 22:48:36 UTC - 3 thumbs up - NMERider
Here's Eric getting a couple of good pictures of something he ALWAYS and Fabio NEVER does:

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So I one hundred percent guarantee you we will NEVER see a picture of Eric that looks like:

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2014/11/28 14:36:28 UTC - Sink This! -- Brad Barkley
You miserable cowardly little turd, Brad. What's your point? Here's what the fuckin' idiot who signed your Three had to say after another one of his Threes ran off a cliff without his glider:

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1166
Thoughts on responsibility...
Scott Wilkinson - 2005/10/05 14:10:56 UTC

We visited Steve Wendt yesterday, who was visibly choked up over Bill's death. For Steve, it all comes down to one thing: you've got to hook in. Period.
Here's what the Legless Whitehaired Dude had to say about his situation:

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25550
Failure to hook in.
Bille Floyd - 2011/10/27 16:59:26 UTC

The Wind came back up and i picked up the glider & made a mental pre-launch check. Remembering that i had already hooked in previously --
i deleted the, "lift the glider" part to check for tension on the harness.
and signaled for the driver to GO !!
So tell us what your fuckin' point is. Tell us what it is you're trying to accomplish.
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Tad Eareckson
Posts: 9161
Joined: 2010/11/25 03:48:55 UTC

Re: You are NEVER hooked in.

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=295
Self Launching: Techniques for Safety
SHGA Communications - 2006/08/10 20:23:02 UTC

An advancing Hang 2 asks:

How on earth can someone safely self launch and do a hang check? At the beach, where the wind is smooth and constant you can balance the glider while you hang, but I don't think I would feel safe doing that at Kagel in anything but the smoothest conditions. Am I wrong? Is this something I should be practicing? Is there a better way to do that?
How on earth can someone safely self launch and do a hang check?
Easy. You self launch and - assuming you're hooked in - as soon as you go prone you'll be doing a hang check whether you want to or not. You'll immediately know what your bar clearance is and as soon as you get clear of the slope a bit you can do the rest of Joe Greblo's Cs - whatever the hell they are.

And several steps into your launch run you'll automatically be doing a hook-in check. If you're hooked in - fine. If you're not...

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...the hang check and all those Cs of Joe's won't matter in the least. Of course you COULD do a hook-in check JUST *PRIOR* TO LAUNCH...

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...but then you'd hafta deal with the false sense of security that would give you.
At the beach, where the wind is smooth and constant you can balance the glider while you hang, but I don't think I would feel safe doing that at Kagel in anything but the smoothest conditions.
I agree. The people who have their shit together reasonably well on this issue...
Rob Kells - 2005/12

My partners (Steve Pearson and Mike Meier) and I have over 25,000 hang glider flights between us and have managed (so far) to have hooked in every time. I also spoke with test pilots Ken Howells and Peter Swanson about their methods (another 5000 flights). Not one of us regularly uses either of the two most popular methods outlined above.
...don't waste any time and effort doing them. And the people who have their shit together REALLY well on this issue...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1153
Hooking In
Steve Kinsley - 2005/10/02 02:45:48 UTC

When Bob Gillisse got hurt I suggested that our local institution of the hang check is more the problem than the solution. I still believe that. It subverts the pilot's responsibility to perform a hook-in check. I often do not see pilots doing a hook-in check. Why should they? They just did a hang check and they are surrounded by friends who will make sure this box is checked.
...understand that the goddam fucking idiot hang check practice multiplies your chances of launching unhooked by a factor of fifty.
Am I wrong?
No.
Is this something I should be practicing?
If it floats your boat. Might as well, you clearly will never consider doing hook-in checks just BEFORE you start moving.
Safety director Joe Greblo answers:

This is particularly a problem at Kagel; especially since the club rounded the top of the launch site into a "knob". This dome shape creates both wind velocity and angle of attack variations whenever the wind shifts direction or the glider accidently yaws or gets a wing lifted. These variations can cause the glider to lift and roll rather violently.

Self launching in stronger winds or gusts is really asking for trouble, and it's almost always unnecessary. Dozens of pilots have blown over at Kagel in the past. Wheels can make self launching even more dangerous as it's much harder for the pilot to keep the glider from yawing with the wheels on the ground. If the glider yaws a little, then one wing enters the lift band and all hell breaks loose. You can get lifted off the ground in less than an instant. Pulling the wing down won't work but pulling it back might if it can be done quickly enough.

Use a wire assistant.
Hell, don't do that...

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=818
Peter (Link Knife) Birren
Bob Kuczewski - 2011/11/19 00:11:35 UTC

If this is the top of your game, then you should pick another game that doesn't involve telling new pilots that they should be lifting their gliders into a turbulent jet stream just to verify something that they checked 10 seconds ago.
Then there'd be no excuse for not lifting your glider into the turbulent jet stream just to verify something that you checked ten seconds ago.
It doesn't hurt to try to do as much as possible for yourself and let the assistant do little or nothing unless needed.
Yeah, be one of those testosterone poisoned assholes who will turn his arms to rubber torqueing his wings level while the wire assistant just stands there doing nothing.
Good communication is in order.
Especially when you're being assisted by some total moron who need constant instruction on how to keep the glider level.
This way you can continue to improve your ground handling skills without risk.
Bullshit. A goddam windy turbulent mountaintop launch is neither the time nor the place to be improving your ground handling skills. Same way a goddam windy turbulent LZ is neither the time nor the place to be improving your foot landing skills.
If I'm last on launch and need to launch myself, I really have to stop and decide how much risk I'm willing to take.
One chance in a hundred of smashing up your glider and/or yourself seems pretty prudent to me.
Winds above 15 mph can lift the glider 30 feet or more into the air while turning you down wind, while lighter winds under 10 mph will generally only blow you over and tear up the leading edge cloth and perhaps bend a leading edge and downtube.
One chance in thirty should be good for the lighter stuff.
Advanced pilots that choose to launch themselves in wind, don't like wheels on the base tube so they can keep the nose extra low and force the base tube into the dirt to keep one wing from lifting and yawing.
And they've all perfected their flare timing so's they don't really have any use for wheels anyway.
They keep the nose down by pushing the top of the control bar forward with their shoulders and waiting until a good moment to launch. Waiting for the right moment is called "timing cycles", and it includes watching the streamers and bushes below launch to try and get advanced warning of coming gusts and thermals. Timing the duration between gusts and spending enough time studying it to gain some confidence is common. This works pretty good most of the time, but fails occasionally when thermals form near launch, such as in the case of sudden dust devils.
Yeah, all those issues and those long delays they can necessitate make it critical for you to be sure you've done a hang check before moving into launch position.
You've been taught a more reliable solution for managing your risk on launch.
And some insanely crappy ones for dealing with the risk of what can happen to assholes with dangling carabiners right after launch.
You can best approach 100% launch safety by launching only during periods of the day when you can effectively balance the glider on launch 100% of the time.
What happened to 99 percent of the time? Nothing's perfect, ya know.
If you can only balance it 50% of the time (between gusts), you're taking a large risk because the consequences of a blown launch are so high.
75 percent of the time... Pretty reasonable.
I sometimes see pilots launch when they can only control the glider 10% of the time. This never ceases to amaze me.
So you must be seeing a lot of gliders getting blown over.
If you're ever up on launch alone in conditions where you can't balance the glider on your shoulders at all times, you're at risk.
If you're EVER balancing the glider on your shoulders just prior to launch in ANY conditions you're at huge risk.
Consider carefully training a spectator back behind launch (take lots of time because they can kill you).
They can't kill you any deader than a dangling carabiner or some brain dead Hang Four on your wing.
Better yet, break down or wait until conditions become more reliable.
And make sure to say NOTHING about anything remotely resembling a hook-in check...

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...SHGA Safety Director Joe Greblo - same way you always do AFTER an unhooked launch.

Ten months and nine days after the Bill Priday unhooked launch fatality. Great job, Joe.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: You are NEVER hooked in.

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=295
Self Launching: Techniques for Safety
George Stebbins - 2006/08/11 00:28:49 UTC

Self Hang Check

I don't have much to add to Joe's comments about launching, but there are times when you can control the glider on launch 100% of the time alone but still have trouble doing a hang check alone.
Kinda like the way you can...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27086
Steve Pearson on landings
Steve Pearson - 2012/03/28 23:26:05 UTC

I can't control the glider in strong air with my hands at shoulder or ear height and I'd rather land on my belly with my hands on the basetube than get turned downwind.
...control the glider through the landing just fine with your hands on the basetube but will kill yourself - the way Joe Julik recently did - if you put your hands on the downtubes at shoulder or ear height such that you can't control the glider? OK George, got it. Now let's find out how to best do your self hang check which:
- is more dangerous than the launch itself
- increases your probability of launching unhooked
The procedure that I use in light to medium wind is to set the glider at a lower than flying angle-of-attack well behind the launch. I then get down with my feet spread very very widely. This makes the basetube one side of a "triangle" and my feet the other side. I then hang with one hand on the ground to make any minor pitch adjustments and the other on a downtube so that I can turn my upper body and look at my hang strap and hang loop.
Which, of course, you wouldn't possibly be able to do standing up forward of the control frame.
Please don't do this without practicing it in no wind first!!! And if you are having trouble, either get up immediately, or lower the nose. A raised nose in this position can be a big and very unpleasant surprise...
Oh. It's gonna be a SURPRISE? But it's not gonna be a surprise if you DON'T get fucked up doing this moronic bullshit.
This technique is difficult at first, but surprisingly easy once you get the "hang" of it.
I'll pass, thank you very much anyway.
But it isn't safe in stronger winds, for obvious reasons.
I thought it was supposed to be surprisingly easy once you got the "hang" of it. But in winds still safe for a Hang Two to self launch it's not safe? I find myself just a wee bit confused by this.
The other method is to hook the harness into the glider well behind launch, and LEAVE IT HOOKED TO THE GLIDER.
Yeah. Treat the harness as...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=13359
Today was a bad day!
Mike Bomstad - 2009/08/26 04:21:15 UTC

The harness is part of the aircraft... end of story.
(Just because it's easy to remove, does not mean it should be. Don't choose the path of least resistance)
...part of the aircraft... end of story. Just because it's easy to remove doesn't mean it should be. Don't choose the path of least resistance.
Then when you put it on, you know you are hooked in.
GODDAM RIGHT! When you put it on you KNOW you are hooked in. At that moment...

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=802
AL's Second flight at Packsaddle how it went
Rick Masters - 2011/10/19 22:47:17 UTC

At that moment, I would banish all concern about launching unhooked. I had taken care of it. It was done. It was out of my mind.
...you can banish all concern about launching unhooked. You've taken care of it. It's done, out of your (fuckin') mind. You're READY TO GO! You're totally...

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...INVINCIBLE!
...Make sure all lines are straight before you climb into the harness, and again after you are in, but before you pick up the glider.
Yeah, make sure all your stupid lines are straight. Just can't overemphasize how critically important that is.
This technique works at almost all flying sites. The only exceptions are ones like Yosemite...
Where:
- the site rules prohibit approaching launch hooked in
- everybody always approaches launch suited up in his unconnected harness
- nobody in the entire history of the site has ever reported coming close to launching unhooked
...and some East Coast ramp launches.
Where:
- people are fanatic about hang checks and/or Aussie Methodism
- virtually no one does anything remotely resembling a deliberate hook-in check
- we get a high percentage of our really ugly unhooked launch incidents
These sites are impossible (or nearly so) to walk your glider to hooked in.
Rubbish. According to Aussie Methodist scripture such sites simply do not exist.
So at these sites, a solo hang-check or launch becomes a very special case.
You're a very special case, George.
A case that should not be done without talking to a hightly...
Heightly.
...experienced and trusted local, if then.
You can always tell who they are. They all wear red, white, and black Heightly Experienced and Trusted Local armbands. Folk like Dennis Pagen, Pete Lehmann, Bob Gillisse, Jim Rooney, Marc Fink - legendary skygods who would never in a million years launch unhooked themselves under any circumstances.
In both of the above methods, a hook-in check as taught by Windsports...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brBKGClKyPk

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...is even more important than normal to double check that you are indeed hooked in correctly.
Normally it's not that important to double check that you are indeed hooked in correctly. There are only about fifteen or twenty reasons that you might not be hooked in after you've completed your regular preflight procedures. So don't sweat it.
But when in doubt, it is better to not fly than to exceed your limits and crash and burn.
What a load o' crap.

- There's very little in the way of skill, experience, brains involved in keeping a glider under control in nasty conditions at launch. A goddam thirty year Hang Five won't be able to deal with a situation any better than a solid three week Hang One. If you need help then stay the fuck off launch until you can find some ten year old kid with enough common sense to be able to hold a wing level. And anybody who needs to be told that shouldn't have a rating and doesn't have any business being around gliders.

- This discussion isn't primarily about not crashing and burning. It is - or should be - about not running off launch with your goddam carabiner dangling. DO try to stay on topic.

- Neither you nor Joe have any goddam business advising ANYBODY on how to prevent unhooked launches by themselves and/or the people they're assisting or observing. I can train the goddam ten year old kid in ten minutes how deal with this shit better than you assholes have been able to learn over the course of decades. You assholes stick to what you're good at - teaching people how to check bar clearance before every flight.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: You are NEVER hooked in.

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=295
Self Launching: Techniques for Safety
Christian Williams - 2006/08/11 17:06:41 UTC

As a Hang 2, I remember my concerns about being left to launch alone when everybody else took off in 15-18. I was fine with launching, but I had 12" wheels and didn't look forward to a prone hang check under the conditions.

As I helped the last guy launch he read my situation. "Just wait until the wind dies down," he said, "it always does."
Got it, Christian...
- The conditions are:
-- safe to launch in
-- too dangerous for doing a hang check on a glider equipped with safe landing gear
- You can't figure out any way to safely preflight your suspension without doing a fucking hang check.
Christian Williams - Pacific Palisades - 80712 - H3 - 2005/01/10 - Joe Greblo - FL TUR - Expired: 2008/05/31
SHGA Communications - 2006/08/14 05:04:17 UTC

Joe discusses the solo hang check:

Hang checks need to be done safely of course...
They NEED to be done? 'Cause you say so? If they NEED to be done how come there's no USHGA SOP requiring them and how come you've never lifted a finger to get them into the SOPs?
...so knowing how to do one without a wire assistant is important.
Funny there's no UnAssisted Hang Check - UAHC - Special Skill signoff.
First I suggest you never do a hang check alone at the edge of the take-off slope. Instead they should be done just behind launch where the terrain is flat and there's little chance of being blown over (as close to launch as possible so you don't have far to walk while hooked in).
Yeah Bob...

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=811
FTHI
Bob Kuczewski - 2011/10/25 06:28:43 UTC

Joe knows far more about hang gliding than I probably ever will.
DEFINITELY. This guy is GOOD!
If conditions are too strong to do a hang check when alone, perhaps it's too strong to try to launch and fly. If one insists on launching alone in windy or gusty conditions, the only option is to hook in, grab the front wires, and lean forward into as much a semi-prone position as possible to check your harness lines. This is of little use to confirm your hang height.
Which, of course, you really need to do EVERY flight.
Assuming it's safe to do a full hang check alone, there are a couple of techniques that you should learn. Accurately describing these techniques without illustrations is difficult...
Yeah, they would take pages. But if you wrote those pages ONCE and illustrated them with stills from videos you'd have a world resource on par with...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26379
Landings

...the essays of our Patron Saint of Landing and all of our solo hang check problems would be similarly forever behind us.
...so I'd rather invite you and anyone else in the club to ask me for a demonstration at the flying site (either launch or l/z). Also, I'll be happy to conduct a short clinic on this at the club beach party at Dockweiler Beach on September 9th. There I'll also conduct x-wind launch and landing clinics, and techniques to deal with a failure to hook in.
Yeah Joe. You keep teaching all your idiot fucking students to do their hook-in checks...

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...several steps into the launch run you can run lots of clinics on dealing with failures to do hook-in checks in accordance with USHGA SOPs. Motherfucker.
Larry Chamblee - 2006/08/16 22:07:01 UTC
West Hollywood

Hook-In Check

Greg Kendall...
Greg Kendall - 55236 - H4 - 1992/11/01 - Matt Spinelli - AT AWCL FSL RLF TUR XC
...also advocates hooking in and performing your hang check right where you set up your glider, before carrying it to the launch line.
Great. So how many steps into your launch run does he advocate performing your hook-in check?
I have adopted this practice, and have not varied from it except when carrying the glider to Glacier Point, in Yosemite, where there is an expert site monitor who also checks to see you hook in.
Does the Expert Site Monitor also check to see that you do a hook-in check in compliance with your USHGA rating requirements? No, wait, that would be stupid. Why would anyone bother doing a hook-in check JUST PRIOR TO running off a thirty-two hundred foot cliff when he's got an Expert Site Monitor who checks to see HIM hook in? That would be REALLY stupid!
In addition, I always set my glider down behind the launch position, reach behind me and tug on my suspension strap to be sure it is hooked in. I then run through the Four C's - - Crotch (am I in my leg loops?), chest (are all the fastenings, zippers and buckles, fastened across my chest?), chute (are the release pins of my chute in correct p?) position and the deployment handle accessable and untangled by any other strings?), and chin (is my helmet buckled and my radio wire from my harness attached to the lead on my helmet?)
And then...

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=802
AL's Second flight at Packsaddle how it went
Rick Masters - 2011/10/19 22:47:17 UTC

At that moment, I would banish all concern about launching unhooked. I had taken care of it. It was done. It was out of my mind.
...at that moment you banish all concern about launching unhooked. You've taken care of it. It's done. It's out of your mind.

So you pick your glider up and continue to launch position knowing there's no fucking way you'll be unhooked whenever the hell you get around to committing.
And finally I say, out loud, "I am hooked in."
WingNutz is hooked in, everybody! He just told you he was so there's no need to watch to make sure he does a hook-in check or verify for yourselves that he actually IS hooked in. Keep stuffing those battens. The day's lookin' good and time's a-wastin'!
Mark Johnson - 2008/08/31

We had not gone ten feet when I heard "Kunio just launched". I stopped and looked and got my first glance at him. Then all hell broke loose. "He's unhooked, shit..." Guys yelling at him over the radio to throw his chute, "Kunio don't think, throw your chute - throw your chute". We all watch in horror not believing this was happening. We all watch in horror not believing this was happening.
Fuckin' douchebags.
And when I used to have a rocket launcher for my chute, I also said, "... and I am ballistic."
Yeah, that's undoubtedly what Bill Priday was saying to himself...

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...about a second and a half after running off the Whitwell launch nine years and two months ago.
Lawrence Chamblee - 54762 - H5 - 2003/05/07 - Joe Greblo - AT VA AWCL CL FSL RLF TUR XC
Best of the best.

You titled your post "Hook-In Check". So where's the fuckin' Hook-In Check? Is this CRAP:
In addition, I always set my glider down behind the launch position, reach behind me and tug on my suspension strap to be sure it is hooked in. I then run through the Four C's - - Crotch (am I in my leg loops?), chest (are all the fastenings, zippers and buckles, fastened across my chest?), chute (are the release pins of my chute in correct p?) position and the deployment handle accessable and untangled by any other strings?), and chin (is my helmet buckled and my radio wire from my harness attached to the lead on my helmet?)
what you consider to be a Hook-In Check?

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13132
Unhooked Death Again - Change our Methods Now?
JBBenson - 2009/01/25 16:27:19 UTC

I get what Tad is saying, but it took some translation:
HANG CHECK is part of the preflight, to verify that all the harness lines etc. are straight.
HOOK-IN CHECK is to verify connection to the glider five seconds before takeoff.
They are separate actions, neither interchangeable nor meant to replace one another. They are not two ways to do the same thing.
Either figure out some way to isolate the most critical element of your foot launch flying day when it matters or find another name for that collection of redundant preflight bullshit with which you're so obsessed.
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Tad Eareckson
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Joined: 2010/11/25 03:48:55 UTC

Re: You are NEVER hooked in.

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=295
Self Launching: Techniques for Safety
Vrezh Tumanyan - 2006/08/17 18:25:49 UTC

Carrying a glider from setup area to near launch area while hooked in could be unsafe in mountain sites.
BLASPHEMER! INFIDEL!
I have seen at least a few instances, when the pilot lost the control and got turned/flipped/dragged (one of them cartwheeled uphill!!!).
Muppets. They need to spend more time practicing ground handling in strong turbulent air while hooked in.
I prefer to carry the glider to a safe place near the launch run then get hooked.
Idiot. Did some certified USHGA instructor tell you that was an acceptable procedure...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec
Jim Rooney - 2013/02/16 05:05:41 UTC

I don't like people reinventing the wheel and I don't like test pilots.
...or did you just pull it out of your ass and decide you were happy with it?
Cheers!
Vrezh Tumanyan - 73692 - H4 - 2004/06/13 - Joseph Szalai - AT FL AWCL RLF TUR XC
George Stebbins - 2006/08/18 14:21:59 UTC

Hooked in?

Getting blown over while walking to launch :oops: is far safer than launching unhooked :shock: at most (but not all) sites. It is faulty logic to worry about being blown over when you are risking a failure to hook in instead.
It's totally fuckin' moronic to think that anything you do prior to two to five seconds before you move a foot at launch position has the slightest bearing on your likelihood of being hooked in at that moment.
However, if this is a concern for you, the only solution is to NEVER launch alone.
Shut the fuck up, George. You're what? A couple weeks shy of starting a launch run unhooked in the most benign of circumstances?
There is nothing wrong with this decision.
Yeah there is. Vrezh is saying that he can launch just fine after safely moving his glider to launch unhooked. You're saying that that will increase his probability of launching unhooked - which is complete and utter dangerous bullshit with zero foundation in reality.
I avoid launching alone whenever possible.
Oh, do tell us when it's impossible to not launch when you're alone. When the volcano starts erupting?
I have decided not to fly because there wasn't anyone else around, and conditions weren't comfortable without help.
Ya listening to this, Bob? If the conditions are too crappy to launch unassisted you don't launch without assistance. And if you HAVE assistance you have ZERO justification for not tensioning your suspension two seconds prior to or during initiation of launch.
If you must do a hang-check alone...
Give me a scenario in which someone MUST do a hang check. Give me one single incident for anywhere in the history of hang gliding when somebody got fucked up because he didn't do a goddam hang check. Feel free to include crashes resulting from people with improper bar clearance.
...the safest way (when possible) is to use the "hook in at setup area and walk to launch" method.
And when it's NOT possible it's NOT the safest way. Lemme know when you're through with this useless babbling.
The second safest is to hook in right behind (but not on) launch, as suggested by Joe Greblo, then do a full hang check as Joe will demonstrate if asked. (As will I.)
And after that you can proceed to launch under the assumption you're hooked in. That is THE single most dangerous and stupid thing anyone can do in this sport.

So where the fuck is the data - or anecdotal evidence - to support your sacred pronouncements on what these safest and second safest procedures are? Failing that, maybe you could walk me through the logic. Pull your head out of your ass, George.
But Joe is right.
Yeah...
George Stebbins - 36615 - H5 - 1992/05/20 - Joe Greblo - AT FL TFL PA VA AWCL CL FSL RLF TUR XC - OBS
No shit. Joe's a legend in Grebloville.
If you are concerned that you cannot get to launch alone and hooked in, then perhaps it is too windy for you to launch.
Yeah we'll just ignore his statement that it was just fine for launching unassisted but not for moving the glider up to launch while hooked in and the perfectly reasonable and logical evidence to support his claim that he just gave you.
Wait for the wind to die down as suggested by Christian. Or fly another day.
Or do what Vrezh says he does plus adhere to the fucking USHGA SOP on hook-in checks.
The mountain will be there.
But that day WON'T be. That flying experience will be gone for all eternity. Just like...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
Jim Rooney - 2011/08/28 19:39:17 UTC

Weak links break for all kinds of reasons.
Some obvious, some not.

The general consensus is the age old adage... "err on the side of caution".

The frustration of a weaklink break is just that, frustration.
And it can be very frustrating for sure. Especially on a good day, which they tend to be. It seems to be a Murphy favorite. You'll be in a long tug line on a stellar day just itching to fly. The stars are all lining up when *bam*, out of nowhere your trip to happy XC land goes up in a flash. Now you've got to hike it all the way back to the back of the line and wait as the "perfect" window drifts on by.

I get it.
It can be a pisser.

But the "other side"... the not cautions one... is not one of frustration, it's one of very real danger.
Better to be frustrated than in a hospital, or worse.
No exaggeration... this is the fire that the "other side" is made of. Best not to play with it.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12512
Weak Links
George Stebbins - 2008/07/13 21:01:44 UTC

I've always been happy with the Quest Air links, and only once did one break when it annoyed me seriously, and for no apparent reason. (Just as I crossed the treeline. I had to whip a 180 before I ran out of altitude to do so. Then I had an interesting landing, not really having room to turn back into the wind...)

I've had enough links break when they should to think mine is ok...
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24534
It's a wrap
Davis Straub - 2011/07/30 19:51:54 UTC

I'm very happy with the way Quest Air (Bobby Bailey designed) does it now.
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31747
Lockout
Davis Straub - 2014/09/01 15:22:41 UTC

I can tell you that I fly with a 200lb weaklink on one side of my 750lb pro tow bridle. I am happy with it.
Fuckin' asshole.
A further though:
Not a very well though out though though.
If you cannot safely walk your glider to launch at Kagel while hooked, then either
a) You need ground handling work, or
b) You are launching in winds that are too high for you to use without help (or maybe at all.)
OR:

c) Your ground handling "skills" are just fine, the conditions for ground handling unassisted behind launch are dangerous, and the conditions on the ramp for launching unassisted are perfectly safe.
That isn't true everywhere, but it is at Kagel.
Yeah, there couldn't POSSIBLY be any flyable conditions in which that wouldn't be true at Kagel. There couldn't be dangerous gust cycles and/or wind switches during the approach to launch that could be safely waited out just behind or on the ramp.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec
Deltaman - 2013/02/16 22:41:36 UTC

How is that possible to write so much ..and say NOTHING !?
Thanks.
SHGA Communications
Hang Gliding Capital of the World
Grebloville. Scrub perfectly good flying days solely because the danger of launching unhooked becomes unacceptably high if you need to approach launch unhooked or can't safely pull off a hang check. The combined intellectual power of the Hang Gliding Capital of the World and not one single person can figure out one single...
With each flight, demonstrates a method of establishing that the pilot is hooked in just prior to launch.
...method of establishing that the pilot is hooked in just prior to launch for one single flight - nine and a half months after local boy Rob Kells has published an article in the national magazine explaining exactly the way to best do it. What a bunch of off the scale useless stupid assholes.

P.S. Great job tuning into this idiot discussion and weighing in, Rob. Guess you can't really do that and remain a friend to every pilot you meet.
User avatar
Tad Eareckson
Posts: 9161
Joined: 2010/11/25 03:48:55 UTC

Re: You are NEVER hooked in.

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=32264
FTHI
Dave Pendzick - 2015/01/01 06:25:35 UTC

Just so we are clear, Do we or do we NOT hook in????
Just about all the time...

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...you do, every now and then...

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...you don't. But those occasions on which you don't are extremely rare and in the vast majority of cases the situations are quite survivable.

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So fuck this Tad spam, Happy New Year! Now let's talk about something important, like whether Wallaby or Quest is the best place to go to get ones AT rating.
michael170 - 2015/01/01 07:31:01 UTC
Mark Johnson - 2008/08/31

As Mark Knight and I jumped in my truck to drive to the trail head, I could hear Kunio's kids crying, my heart sank even more, I felt sick.
Ask Kunio's kids that question, then get back to me, Dave.

Image
Hey Dave...

Nobody ever got scratched because he wasn't hooked in or a gun was loaded. People get scratched because of assumptions made and verifications not made in the couple seconds prior to the glider being run off the ramp or the trigger being pulled.

But don't bother actually reading the article. Just keep doing whatever idiot religious preflight rituals you've been doing...

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=811
FTHI
Rick Masters - 2011/10/19 22:47:17 UTC

At that moment, I would banish all concern about launching unhooked. I had taken care of it. It was done. It was out of my mind.
They've undoubtedly worked just fine for you so far and all of them have really long track records.
User avatar
Tad Eareckson
Posts: 9161
Joined: 2010/11/25 03:48:55 UTC

Re: You are NEVER hooked in.

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=32264
FTHI
michael170 - 2015/01/01 05:42:15 UTC
2015/01/01 11:14:03 UTC - Sink This! -- Kinsley Sykes
michael170 - 2015/01/01 07:31:01 UTC
2015/01/01 11:14:24 UTC - Sink This! -- Kinsley Sykes
Still an unabashed mega-asshole with nothing to say.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec
Kinsley Sykes - 2013/02/17 16:04:16 UTC

Unlike sailplanes, the pilot is an integral part of the tow system. The breaking strength of an HG is a lot more than I can bench press, even one half of it's breaking strength if using a two point release. At some point, getting pulled through the control frame is going to be worse than almost any scenario I could think of. (and yes, no matter how easy it is to pull/bite whatever your release, at some point it's going to not work.. and if it jams and you have a 400lb weaklink (as was mentioned earlier) and you get out of sorts on your tow, explain how you are not totally F'ked?

So far this has gone down the path of "there was an accident, so therefore I am right" and the FAA says so, it must be right (for HG). The systems most mainline flight parks and pilots use have a very excellent safety and performance record. The folks that are arguing the other way quite frankly have neither. As Jim said, the onus is on you to show that there is a problem.
Keep working on those bench presses, Kinsley. For some totally inexplicable reason the systems most mainline flight parks and pilots use went up an extra 140 pounds and the onus will be on you to keep up with them. And...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=16265
weaklinks
Kinsley Sykes - 2010/03/18 19:42:19 UTC

In the old threads there was a lot of info from a guy named Tad. Tad had a very strong opinion on weak link strength and it was a lot higher than most folks care for. I'd focus carefully on what folks who tow a lot have to say. Or Jim Rooney who is an excellent tug pilot. I tow with the "park provided" weak links. I think they are 130 pound Greenspot.
...keep focusing carefully on what folks who tow a lot have to say. Or Jim Rooney who is an excellent tug pilot. All the rest of us muppets seem to be able to get is that the accepted standards and practices changed and many of us are now happy with them.

P.S. You were totally fucked well before the sperm cell found the egg cell - and nothing's ever gonna change that. Dickhead.
User avatar
Tad Eareckson
Posts: 9161
Joined: 2010/11/25 03:48:55 UTC

Re: You are NEVER hooked in.

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=32264
FTHI
The topic or post you requested does not exist
Well, it does here anyway. Fuck you, Jack.
User avatar
<BS>
Posts: 422
Joined: 2014/08/01 22:09:56 UTC

Re: You are NEVER hooked in.

Post by <BS> »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?p=362882#362882
Another hang check lesson

FTHI starts at 3:00. The link starts there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nx6x_tvNlJc#t=180

lanzarote 2014
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nx6x_tvNlJc
Jose Mari Iriarte - 2015/01/09
dead

proxima entrega en breve = next delivery soon
User avatar
Tad Eareckson
Posts: 9161
Joined: 2010/11/25 03:48:55 UTC

Re: You are NEVER hooked in.

Post by Tad Eareckson »

Note the shadow of the next glider in line.

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OK guys, he's ready to go. Nuthin' more you can do. Go ahead and clear.

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OK, start moving forward. And remember to keep that wing down on your shoulders and out of the turbulent jet stream just above. You don't want the wing in the turbulent jet stream until you're fully committed to launch.

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Everybody watch to make sure he trims his nose to a good pitch attitude and keeps those wings level. We sure don't want anything going seriously wrong at this point.

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OK, it's a good idea to do a hook-in check just prior to launch and you're just about to launch. Now would be a good time to let that wing float up so's you can verify that you're hooked in and have your leg loops.

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Oops. Not hooked in. Probably oughta abort this one.

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Looks like you've almost gotten yourself to a nice safe stop. Good job. Way to handle things under pressure.

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Keep a good eye on it. Ya never know where these things are gonna land.

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Oh look! It's gonna land almost right back at launch. How convenient.

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Fuckin' assholes.
---
Edit - 2015/01/11 08:45:00 UTC

The crowd is probably mostly wuffos. Only the glider people present are fuckin' assholes.
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