The Bob Show

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=42429
police were summoned again

Brian McMahon - 2015/05/15 15:21:25 UTC

If you really want to learn the history there are many threads you can read that will give you a pretty much complete history but here is a bullet point list of answers:

- The business is Air California Adventures. It is a shop, a school, hotdog stand, a joyride business, and administrator of the park (via a free lease with the City of San Diego).
- It isn't totally clear who owns the business, but my assumption is that David Jebb is the main owner and Robin Marien is a partial owner, although it could be the other way around.
- The main problem with the business that I know of (there may be more complaints) is that they play favorites (through charging different prices, a violation of the lease), have a history of kicking out or attempting to kick out pilots that they don't like for dubious reasons, ignore complaints, and lack any authoritative oversight (though this is really not their fault).
- There are some safety related issues because of the business; for example on a busy day there might not be a clear overshoot lane for hang gliders because there are students all over the intended overshoot. I had an overshoot due to another HG pilot choosing to land at the same time as me from another direction, I was forced to overshoot and it required violent maneuvering to avoid hitting many spectators and other pilots milling around. In fact, the only reason I didn't end up hitting anyone was because a pilot screamed at people to get out of the way because he saw me coming. For purely safety related reasons, it's my opinion that there should always be a clear overshoot lane for hang gliders, but this interferes with the goals of the business, so safety takes a back seat. There isn't anyone I can raise this issue with that can do anything about it except the business. The business isn't interested in telling their students that they can't practice due to safety related issues with landing hang gliders.

Bob is a prolific writer, you can mine the US Hawks for lots of information about history of trouble. Send Bob a personal email and he will write back with a ton of text for you to parse. You can read this and this for part of the history. There is a lot more to it all and to an extent Bob is at the center of most of it. The real trouble began with David Beardsley being accused of molesting or groping a young woman on a tandem flight at Torrey. There wasn't a police call or conviction, they just banned him. When Bob took up the cause of defending David Beardsley, he was banned for arguing with David Jebb. Thus began quest to unlock the grip on Torrey and get the City to oversee what is going on at the park. My only real complaint at the site is that there is no City managed oversight that anyone can bring a grievance to, and the prices are not publicly posted. I believe this is because the concessionaire doesn't want tandem competition and will charge excessive prices to some tandem pilots to keep them from doing their own joyride business there. The City of San Diego could end all of the trouble there with a park oversight board (which exist for many parks in San Diego), but they have not acted. And this is after two meetings with two mayors, city attorney, and several city council members over many years of complaints.

Scott MacLeod - 2015/05/15 15:32:55 UTC

What this indicates to me is they are either all in a conspiracy, or that they disagree with your perspective. Given the fact that you got no traction with any of them over many years I'm leaning towards the second...

Always reassuring to see consistent brain dead Davis Show fuckwads coming down on this side of the issue.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=42429
police were summoned again

Steve Corbin - 2015/05/15 15:50:20 UTC

Graeme, I'll try to explain the situation in a nutshell, so you won't have to do a lot of research into past discussions.

Graeme never has to do a lot of research into past discussions. He automatically knows everything he needs to on any topic he feels like wading into regardless of actual facts. Besides, Davis has already deleted all the important ones.

The concessionaire at Torrey Pines has been given the responsibility of "policing", for want of a better term, the manned ultralight flight activities at this city-owned coastal ridge soaring site. They help to co-ordinate with the sailplane and RC glider clubs also utilizing the site.

Sailplanes haven't utilized the site for eons.

I used to make the multi-hour drive down there to fly once a year, whether I felt like it or not, just to say I did. It is a famous flying site, after all.

However, I live only nine highway miles from Crestline launch, and some of our very late day glass-offs rival the smoothness of Torrey's ridge lift and without the dead fish smell, so I haven't bothered to make the trip for some years now.

Anyway, the concessionaire is supposedly anti-HG in their attitude. There have been many instances reported of HGers being blatantly discouraged from flying there. There does seem to exist a "good ol' boys" thing where some HGers are welcome to fly there, but I've heard and read of many instances where out-of-towners have been treated very rudely.

I have some mixed feelings about it all. While I do have a couple PG tandems under my belt and a few solo bunny hill flights, I'm hardly a bi-wingual pilot. With nigh on forty years of HG experience, I'm an old dog wary of learning new tricks.

Maybe it isn't such a bad thing to have a PG dominated flying site. I'm always impressed with just how difficult it can be to mix it up with PG's while flying my hang glider, even when using my big single surface kite that I've tuned to fly "almost" as slow as a PG.

And there are many days when the wind does get strong enough at Torrey to ground most if not all of the PG's, but I suppose one would have to be a dedicated HG fan of the place to make sure of being there when it happens.

Bob is a San Diego local and wants to fly HG there. However, just like the vast majority of us, he's a bit of an eccentric, and while his motives may be pure in many respects, his methodology can leave something to be desired.

I still remember my Father telling me that the best life skills to learn are tact and diplomacy.

Fuck those. Counterproductive in a sport as corrupt as this one.

Yet we all know that it can be difficult to think wisely when we are passionate, I almost had to get married once because I was thinking with the wrong head one night.

So maybe in an over-all sense Bob's efforts have created as many problems as he was trying to resolve. It's easy for me to remain detached because my local flying site isn't being policed by a biased entity. I might feel differently if I lived near Torrey and cherished after work flights and pleasant weekends there.

I've had minimal personal exposure to Bob, but based on that exposure alone I can't help but like the guy.

Yeah, he's very likable. Ya gotta keep reviewing the stuff he's said and done to keep things in proper perspective.

The whole situation is just plain sad.

Graeme Henderson - 2015/05/16 00:41:10 UTC

Hi Steve,

Thank you for your insights. I have had some PMs on the matter as well and I am slowly getting a broader picture.

Must be very tedious for someone who always knows everything about everything without knowing anything about anything.

I am not a great fan of coastal soaring, but it is a famous site, if I had some time on a trip to the Owens Valley, where I would love to fly, I would certainly call in, even if just to see it for myself and to put all those photos into perspective. But I would really hate to see the site lost, that would be BAD.

Not following you, asshole. How did losing the site find its way into the discussion?

What I can see already though, is...

Anything you fuckin' feel like seeing already.

...that when you take Bob out of the picture, it is all much more relaxed and comprehensible.

Just like when you take climatologists out of the global warming debate and turn everything over to Exxon-Mobile and the Republicans.

Without Bob it all so far looks like a short list of remarkably manageable issues, with Bob, the world is about to end, or at least hang gliding is about to be banned in this and three other universes, well almost.

To some asshole who doesn't have a fuckin' clue what he's talking about - fer sure.

The whole thing is sad, Bob's situation is sad too, but it's like the old saying sez; He who will not listen shall be made to feel.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks

Jim Rooney - 2013/03/03 19:37:19 UTC

My response is short because I've been saying it for years... and yes, I'm a bit sick of it.
This is a very old horse and has been beaten to death time and time again... by a very vocal minority.

See, most people are happy with how we do things. This isn't an issue for them. They just come out and fly. Thing's aren't perfect, but that's life... and life ain't perfect. You do what you can with what you've got and you move on.

But then there's a crowd that "knows better". To them, we're all morons that can't see "the truth".
(Holy god, the names I've been called.)

I have little time for these people.

It saddens me to know that the rantings of the fanatic fringe mask the few people who are actually working on things. The fanaticism makes it extremely hard to have a conversation about these things as they always degrade into arguments. So I save the actual conversations for when I'm talking with people in person.

A fun saying that I picked up... Some people listen with the intent of understanding. Others with the intent of responding.
I like that.

For fun... if you're not seeing what I mean... try having a conversation here about wheels.

Fuck you, Graeme.

There certainly seem to be personality clashes happening there, but we are hang glider pilots, after all, we are not just Alpha Males, we are Alpha Males Who Fly, the human ego equivalent of plutonium, one spark and everyone can warm their hands at the fire. This is normal for us...

Depends upon how you define "us".

...it's a distorted part of our mating ritual I think.

Yeah, all dick and no brains.

I doubt that there are many sites where everyone gets along happily all the time.

'Specially those under the total control of monopolies.

Right at the moment, the biggest and most urgent threat that I can see to hang gliding continuing at Torrey appears to come from Bob's actions, if only there were someone he would listen to.

What kind of total moron would give a flying fuck what you can see?

He is risking getting all flying banned at TP for the rest of time with parts of his campaign, with parts he risks flying sites elsewhere as well.

What a pity u$hPa didn't have your ass to pull things out of for use in their expulsion proceedings.

I don't regard him as competent to handle that in the sports best interest.

Hey everybody, the great Graeme Henderson doesn't regard Bob as competent to handle that in the sport's best interest. You obviously shouldn't either.

I'll go over things and give it some more contemplation...

And we'll all be over here holding our breath waiting for your sacred pronouncements.

...but I can't help getting the feeling that a slab of beer, a smile, a friendly hand shake, and some good will wouldn't go some long way to resolving most if not all of the issues. I am also certain that to split the USHPA would only make matters at Torrey harder to deal with.

This asshole is just another version of Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney. A thousand times as articulate but still just an off-the-scale arrogant douchebag with a serious Messiah complex.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=42445
split the USHPA in two

Mark G. Forbes - 2015/05/14 23:38:42 UTC

You can ramble on semi-coherently about your fantasies, but those of us actually doing the work need to deal with the world as it is, not as you imagine it might be. If you want to go off and be "pure", go right ahead. Nobody is stopping you, and I for one would be delighted if you and BobK form an organization that caters to pilots who just can't stand to work within USHPA's constraints. It'll give them a place to go and complain about how the world (and USHPA) is all screwed up, while the rest of us continue on, doing the best we can in the world that is real. But meanwhile, give it a rest. And try to work on the whole "coherent thought" thing, ok?

Michael Grisham - 2015/05/16 20:47:55 UTC

Bille,

While TP is a local problem, it highlights the overall...

...deliberate...

...failure of the USHPA with regard to the organization's mission statement of safety, especially with the two FAR exemptions of towing and tandem.

The only exemption for towing is aero. The FAA doesn't give a flying fuck about surface.

Also TP is located in the premier nanny state...

Kuczewskiland?

...the "left" coast, where the populous protect women and children with regulations. The threat is not that Bob and Joe are going to lose a soaring site or outlaw P and H. The principle Machiavellian problem is the USHPA does not control the masses of the nanny state and the threat is the nanny populous banning the sport.

Bullshit.

The history of Hang Gliding Joe recalls was the threat that Hang Gliding of the 1970's would be have been banned or severely regulated by the Feds due to the deaths of young flyers in a craft that exhibited safety design...

There was no design. It wasn't rocket science to install reflex bridles and washout struts. How long did it take hang gliding to start getting its shit together relative to the length of time Wilbur and Orville went from zilch to three axis controlled powered flight?

...flaws in pitch and yaw stability along with the lack of understanding and training of the young flyers.

Which still totally sucks today and gets worse by the year.

The central purpose of having a "national" organization as the USHGA was to protect the sport from regulation by the Feds or an outright ban.

By running fake fatality investigations, shredding accident reports, and publishing works of total fiction.

The similarity is that paragliders and the standard rogallo hang glider have the same tendency for the airfoil to collapse in turbulent air. And I will make the argument on behalf of the paraglider community, that the paraglider is designed to reinflate and become a stable flying platform again while the standard rogallo hang glider did not exhibit that capability.

Full luff dive.

It is the simple point of the infamous Rick Masters that the paraglider pilot needs some altitude to reinflate the parglider before he/she bounces off the ground along with whoever is attached to them.

Hang gliders, on the other hand...

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8143/7462005802_bbc0ac66ac_o.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-bRrpHNa68iY/UQ6Pv9gRZyI/AAAAAAAAjTg/Hc22bx5122Q/s2048/20943781_BG1.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8737/16790136379_c1c17b2f86_o.png


The really cool thing about hang gliders is that stalls present no problems for them - 'specially when induced by extra safe weak links.

Sorry to say, that is the real world. With the principle reason of the USHGA (along with the HGMA) as a national organization so the sport would not be regulated or banned, the irony is the USHPA is promoting a glider with a similar design flaw of collapsing in flight as the standard rogallo.

Personally, I am with you Bille and do not like the government or the populous passing laws protecting people from themselves.

But you're totally cool with:

The United States Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association, Inc. - 2015/03/13
12. Standard Operating Procedure
01. Basic Safety Requirements
05. Equipment
-B. Other Equipment

01. It is required that pilots wear protective headgear whenever they are in their harness and hooked-in or otherwise attached to their glider.

I was raised as a free range kid and did not kill myself in the process of growing up, but there probably were some close shaves along the way.

Well at least back then there was no chance of you hopping on a paraglider for a coastal flight with Brad Geary or Max Marien.

People need to know the risks and be responsible for their actions for those who chose to take up the sports of paragliding and hang gliding.

Good freakin' luck.

So returning to my original premise of the overall failure of the USHPA with regard to the organization in adhering to their mission statement is the USHPA is amiss in the premier mission of safety by ignoring their agreement with the FAA and the people of the United States by not enforcing the provisions of the exemptions of a tandem and towing as training activities.

Name them. The fact that you keep refering to the towing exemption tells us that you're clueless.

The problem is that schools and instructors rated by the USHPA operating under the FAR exemption are selling joy rides to the uniformed public and when there are accidents killing uniformed...

That's twice.

...people, especially innocent women and children...

Here we go...

...the populous of the nanny state are going to stop you and me from making our choice to fly.

- Yeah, right.

- The u$hPa thrill ride industry machine has already stopped me from making my choice to fly and none of you motherfuckers gave a rat's ass about me so why should I give a rat's ass about you?

If the exemptions are lost due to the deaths caused by joy ride for profit operators...

- WHAT exemptionS?

- Little would make me happier than to see the tandem exemption go down the toilet. And I'd be pretty happy watching aerotowing get blown out of the fuckin' sky. It's been a total disaster for thirty years.

...the really sad part is there are magnificent schools and instructors out there...

BULLSHIT.

...that use the exemptions for the intended purpose of training.

See above.

I know of one school that has their own minimum age of training...

Six?

...and does not sell joy rides to children.

- They must be doing a much better job of not killing innocent uniformed children than all those other places are.

- Nobody under eighteen, huh? They're such crappy tandem joy ride pilots that they're pretty sure they're gonna kill somebody (again) in the not too distant future and they're totally cool with killing an eighteen year old but a seventeen and a half year old is really beyond the pale.

- So how come you're not naming them and not letting me know where I can send my innocent little people of varying ages to safely not fly?

The TP "Brad Video" clearly shows a reprehensible operation placing innocent lives at risk not only by the instructors but condoned by the operator and USHPA.

- Get fucked.
- The TP "Brad Video" doesn't clearly show anything any more. It's been shut down.
- If it was so condoned by u$hPa then how come Brad got his tandem ticked permanently revoked for violating nonexistent SOPs?

The hang gliding tandem tow accident at Jean is another demonstration of the failure of the USHPA to police the tow and tandem for training exemptions taking innocent lives.

THERE IS NO *TOW* EXEMPTION. He could've launched himself and the kid off of one of the nearby mountains and been doubly fatally slammed in by one of those invisible dust devils that have become so popular lately and it would've been exactly the same deal - just a lot less convenient/efficient.

I don't see the failure as necessarily between P and H. It is a disregard for laws and safety.

You don't have a fucking clue what the laws and the SOPs are - and you've never done shit to try to get bad ones shredded or good ones implemented and/or enforced.

. . . who just can't stand to work within USHPA's constraints. It'll give them a place to go and complain about how the world (and USHPA) is all screwed up, while the rest of us continue on, doing the best we can in the world that is real.

The USHPA is all screwed up when the USHPA is not adhering to their own constraints in following and enforcing the towing and tandem for training exemptions under the FAR's.

What constraints are you imagining weren't adhered to in the Kelly/Arys? What are your ideas on...

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1157
Accident information please.

Bob Kuczewski - 2013/02/13 05:15:02 UTC

I agree with you Warren. This is one of the areas where Tad is on the right track.

...how things might have a bit better? Bob thinks this in one of the areas where I'm on the right track. Maybe I could help you get on the right track too and together we might be able to figure something out.

If the USHPA was actually interested in protecting and promoting safety with the exemptions they would currently be drafting and promoting to the FAA a revision to the exemptions with a minimum age for training of 14 years for the trainee.

Yeah, it's OK to slam in fourteen-year-olds. They're not as little and cute and innocent. Lots of them are, in fact, real assholes.

USHPA is putting those exemptions and the sports of both paragliding and hang gliding at risk of being outlawed.

Yeah...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnYC5BXdt48
12-year-old killed in hang glider accident

Bryan Callahan - 2015/03/27

The FAA WAS notified of the crash and did help with the investigation but Metro says because the glider didn't have a tail number and there was a truck pulling it at the time Metro is going to handle the investigation.

Like they actually give a shit about anything.

That is the real Machiavellian World in the nanny state.

What's a "nanny state"? I thought you wanted safety regulations - real and imaginary - enforced.

As far as splitting the organization up? There are plenty of responsible schools, instructors, and manufactures who love the sport and are interested in safety who will ultimately make that decision.

- Funny you don't seem to be able to actually name any.
- So if there are then how come they're not showing up in any of these discussions?

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=42429
police were summoned again

Bob Kuczewski - 2015/05/17 00:35:07 UTC

Reply to Graeme

Bill Cummings - 2015/05/11 16:16:03 UTC

I see yesterday Sunday 5-10-2015 Bob went to the Torrey Pines Glider Port and the police were summoned again.

Graeme Henderson - 2015/05/11 19:17:53 UTC

Shows what an absolute idiot he is. His supporters should hang their heads in shame for encouraging this insanity.

Davis, I believe that's a pretty clear personal attack. What's your ruling on the "absolute idiot" phrase? Can we use that?

Pales a wee bit in comparison to the grotesquely personal attacks with which you intensively spammed me around three years ago, doesn't it?

Graeme, you'll find that my supporters don't "hang their heads" because they're holding their heads high (right along with me) to establish our rights to use our designated flight parks ... for flying. As Bill C. said, the police were summoned, but after reviewing the situation (and my documents), they stood firmly against Robin Marien's and Gabe Jebb's assertions that they could throw out whoever they pleased. That's a triumph for all pilots who fly at Torrey Pines (and everywhere else).

Yeah, I'm all tuckered out from celebrating.

I'm surprised that "Greenpeace Graeme" doesn't understand such a simple concept.

Not me anymore. I'd be totally fucking astonished if he DID get any simple concepts.

Instead "Greenpeace Graeme" appears to be a self-appointed expert on what *I* am thinking:

Graeme Henderson - 2015/05/11 22:08:02 UTC

In my opinion Bob did not go to TP for any other reason than to push buttons until they called the fuzz. Sure, he may be legally allowed to go there, but only the most gullible of honest people would try to claim that Bob wasn't out to cause as much trouble as he could within the bounds of the law.

Graeme Henderson - 2015/05/14 20:10:43 UTC

I am sorry but there is no way that I can see Bob as the victim here. He went to TP to deliberately cause trouble.

Graeme Henderson - 2015/05/14 08:57:45 UTC

I brought up my Greenpeace experience to indicate the personal experience that informs my opinion about what Bob is up to. Bob is running a dishonest campaign where he is the actual aggressor while always trying to set up the scenario so that he can claim to be the victim. It is pathetic to watch when you know what you're looking at, and you would have to be incredibly gullible not to see that now, surely.

Graeme Henderson - 2015/05/14 08:57:45 UTC

Or are you saying that Bob had no idea that his going to TP might result in the police being called, that he was innocent? You want us to believe that Bob innocently went there, without a clue in the world that his mere presence might cause alarm, and to quote Jim earlier: "with court documents in hand". IN HAND, he innocently went there with COURT DOCUMENTS IN HAND. Are you really asking us to believe that he went there in all innocence?

Graeme Henderson - 2015/05/14 08:57:45 UTC

Do you really think that it is good that a person would set out to harass and annoy a paragliding school?

Graeme, your arrogance in presuming to know my motives casts serious doubt on your credibility.

You got any fucking clue just how much work I've been doing keeping this total asshole in check?

I go to Torrey Pines to fly. Unfortunately, that currently requires a persistent effort to establish that right for myself and for others.

'Cept, of course, for T** at K*** S****** and Steve Davy.

I don't go there to harass or annoy anyone. But given what's happened I would be foolish not to arm myself with the legal documents that protect my rights to be there. Others on this forum have been able to figure that out, and it's inexplicable that you haven't.

No it's not. The guy's got his head two feet up his ass.

Here are some quotes from the Torrey Pines Lease (with my bold highlighting added):

1.2 Uses. It is expressly agreed that the premises are leased to Flight Director/LESSEE soley and exclusively for the purposes of the operation and maintenance of the premises and buildings for a gliderport concession, the use of non-powered aircraft and the general public.

1.6 Competent Management. Throughout the term of this lease agreement ... Flight Director/LESSEE shall institute rules and regulations governing flight and personal conduct so as to create a safe and enjoyable flight park, provided they are consistent with the rights of the general public ...

1.10 Public Use. The general public shall not be wholly or permanently excluded from any portion of the premises. Flight Director/LESSEE may develop reasonable restrictions for the facility use provided they are consistent with the rights of the general public ...

That lease is an agreement between the people of San Diego and the Torrey Pines concessionaire. That establishes our rights to be in OUR PARK without having to act like beggars or trespassers to any concessionaire. Unfortunately, our rights have been trampled due to years of neglect (thanks U$HPA), and that's why it's taking some time and effort to re-establish them. That's time and effort well spent, and I thank all the members of the Torrey Hawks who've participated in restoring our rights to use our park.

Finally Graeme, you twist this to make it "all about Bob".

Must've taken a page or two out of your "all about Tad" book.

It's not. This isn't "all about Bob" any more than the U.S. civil rights movement was "all about Rosa Parks". There were many racists who hurled the same kinds of criticisms at Rosa Parks that you're so happy to throw at me. Wikipedia defines argumentum "ad hominem" as "to the person" and as "a fallacy in which a claim or argument is dismissed on the basis of some irrelevant fact or supposition about the author or the person being criticized".

Including unrepentant child molesters?

That's been the theme of your comments since your opening insult, and it discredits you to anyone with an independent mind.

All three of them on The Davis Show.

Graeme Henderson - 2015/05/16 00:41:10 UTC

Right at the moment, the biggest and most urgent threat that I can see to hang gliding continuing at Torrey appears to come from Bob's actions...

Members of the Oz Forum, it has been the actions of the Torrey Pines concessionaire that have threatened our sports at Torrey Pines (and everywhere else). They have run a sloppy and abusive business for years, and USHPA has failed to lift a finger against them. Instead, USHPA has intentionally looked the other way and allowed their abuses to continue. I had reported problems to USHPA for years before the paragliding collision of 2011...

How 'bout giving me a precise date on this one, Bob - like I've asked before?

...but USHPA did nothing.

They didn't even get Dennis Pagen to talk to you to keep you from doing serious damage to the sport.

That emboldened the concessionaire to push further and further and further. Eventually someone got hurt (a young woman paragliding student under direct radio supervision). That should cause USHPA to reconsider the "free pass" they've been giving to Jebb and Marien. But rather than take a fresh look at the matter, USHPA doubled down and expelled me. That's a clear message that USHPA will blindly fly our sport into the ground rather than lift a finger against the problems at Torrey.

And at ALL commercial aerotow operations - but who gives a rat's ass about that?

Anyone who wants to stay on board that ride is welcome to stick with USHPA.

I really doubt I am.

But anyone...

...'cept, of course, Tad and Steve...

...who wants a better choice should come help us build the US Hawks (http://ushawks.org). Thanks.

You're more than welcome - motherfucker.

P.S. A few days ago Davis said that he would only allow me one post to this topic, and then he'd see how it goes.

If it goes well for you he'll lock it down.

So if you don't hear back from me, please look for my future comments on the US Hawks Forum.

And make sure not to bother with my comments over here.

[Tad Eareckson]

Bob Kuczewski - 2015/05/17 02:20:36 UTC

Accident

Hello Tad,

I believe the accident happened on July 24th, 2011.

Yep.

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15138240/paraglider-hurt-after-collision-at-torrey-pines-gliderport
Paraglider hurt after collision at Torrey Pines Gliderport - CBS News 8 - San Diego, CA News Station - KFMB Channel 8

CBS 8 - 2011/07/25 23:50 UTC - Posted
San Diego

2011/07/26 00:34 UTC - Updated

In La Jolla, two paragliders crashed into each other, sending one of them to the hospital.
It happened around 2:30 p.m. Sunday at the Torrey Pines Gliderport.
San Diego lifeguards say a paraglider was coming in for a landing when another collided into them.
Witnesses say one paraglider fell about 40 feet and landed shoulder first on the ground. The other paraglider was able to land safely.
The cause of the collision is under investigation.

Thanks. Extremely valuable.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=42429
police were summoned again

Brian Scharp - 2015/05/17 02:57:42 UTC

Bob Kuczewski - 2015/05/17 00:35:07 UTC

Unfortunately, our rights have been trampled due to years of neglect (thanks U$HPA), and that's why it's taking some time and effort to re-establish them.

Have you tried drinking beer and smiling?

Graeme Henderson - 2015/05/16 00:41:10 UTC

I'll go over things and give it some more contemplation but I can't help getting the feeling that a slab of beer, a smile, a friendly hand shake, and some good will wouldn't go some long way to resolving most if not all of the issues. I am also certain that to split the USHPA would only make matters at Torrey harder to deal with.

Whatsamattah Graeme? Run outta facts to pull outta your ass? Start getting hit by too many ACTUAL facts from too many people at much too high a clip? All of the above?

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=42445
split the USHPA in two

Joe Faust - 2015/05/18 03:59:12 UTC

Derivation of "u$hPa" ... why not all uppercase? Lowercase "u" as the entity is broken, not united. $ instead of S, as the entity sells its soul for the joyrides, etc.. Lowercase "h" as HG is no longer dominant focus of the politics, time, attention, image, text, ... The uppercase P, as the entity Org is capitalizing on PG seemingly inextricably, even divorcing-expelling part of the soul of HG. Then finally lowercase "a" as the entity is a corporation set to keep profit for an insurance company no matter the safety cost of the bodies of the members, especially those hurt and lost in the PDMC zone.

Scott MacLeod - 2015/05/18 04:45:13 UTC

You sure put in a lot of energy commenting on an organization you don't even belong to.

- Like an NAACP type tends to put a lot of energy into commenting on the KKK.

- Think Joe's bad? Check out T** at K*** S****** sometime. Don't waste your time and the electrons registering however.

- You sure put in the usual amount of energy expected of a Davis Show douchebag with a u$hPa agenda and total shit for brains running his mouth with absolutely nothing of substance to say.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1822
Oz forum

Rick Masters - 2015/05/19 15:56:20 UTC

I wouldn't waste my time telling OZ Report junkies how important they are.
They marginalize, trivialize and distort important issues with a juvenile "fight club" mentality.
Let them "stew in their own juice."
They are irrelevant to the US Hawks.
If you can build a positive alternative to the USHPA, the US Hawks Forum will attract the kind of people you are looking for.

Bob Kuczewski - 2015/05/21 18:08:18 UTC

I mostly agree. There are people there who don't want an alternate association, and they're more than welcome to stay with USHPA. The people founding the United States didn't try to drag all of Europe in here with them.

And ya know what they did to the Tories, Indians, slaves who sided and/or fought with the British during and after the war?

The process was self-selective of those who were fed up with the status quo of corrupt monarchies.

See above.

Those who were happy to live under Kings and Queens stayed, and those who weren't didn't.

Not all the people who were happy to live under Kings and Queens were in Europe, Bob. There was a pretty healthy percentage of loyalists on this side of the pond.

I hope the same will happen with the US Hawks, and I will be very happy to belong to that group of pilots.

Along with being in total control of that group of pilots - seeing as how you've got the only vote that counts for anything.

The biggest value in the Oz Forum (and other public venues) is letting people know that we're working on providing choices in the HG world.

Pick the dick you wanna suck - u$hPa's, Davis's, Jack's, Rooney's, Bob's... The world is your oyster.

That presumably fits in with assertions by Davis that the Oz Report is a news publication about hang gliding.

And a serious forum for pilots who wish to write cogently and engage the intellect of others!

An alternate to USHPA is certainly news!!

An even more corrupt monarchy with even more concentrated power and even less in the way of individual freedoms and protections. Keep up the great work, Bob.

You have an understanding of history with an obtuseness on par with your understandings of physics, aeronautics, biology, ecology...

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1822
Oz forum

Rick Masters - 2015/05/21 23:28:25 UTC

It pains me to see insulting garbage from other web forums re-posted here on US Hawks Forum.

Hey guys... It pains Rick to see insulting garbage from other web forums re-posted there on the US Hawks Forum. See if you can re-posted some more insulting garbage from other web forums there on the US Hawks Forum. If you run low I'll be more than happy to generate as much as you need.

We could do that all the time. We could become a reactionary bunch of whiners.

Instead of a bunch of fascist whack jobs jerking each other off while pretending to be a democratic Utopia based on uncompromising respect for individual freedoms and free speech.

If we choose to waste out time defending, for instance, the people who were responsible for starting hang gliding history from the rampant, ignorant, defaming and intellectually-bankrupt primadonnas and morons who infest those sites rather than forging ahead in an effort to improve the sorry situation to which hang gliding has descended, we will become sidetracked and never accomplish anything.

1. Like you been never accomplishing anything these past four and three quarters years.

2. And you think you have some shortage of rampant, ignorant, defaming and intellectually-bankrupt prim donnas and morons infesting The Bob Show?

We have a firewall. It's BobK.

I'll say. Anybody Bob has a problem with is totally fucked.

He is the one outstanding moderator in the entire arena of freeflight.

Yeah. Just what FREEflight needs...

http://www.paraglidingforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=30195
moderation

MODERATION. Ya sure don't wanna go nuts with this "freedom" thing. Nothing like a good unelected moderator to make sure everyone is on the same and proper pages with everyone else.

He is the only moderator or site administrator with the courage to say no to the garbage-mongers.

Tad Eareckson - 2015/02/05 17:52:07 UTC

Yeah Bob, you've been saying stuff like that for the better part of half a dozen years now. So name one item of the lotsa stuff that I have to offer - hook-in checks, Tad-O-Links, straight pin releases not within easy reach, wheel landings, SOPs revisions, compliance with existing USHGA SOPs and FAA safety regulations, gutting Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney, getting Sam out of circulation before he kills someone - that you haven't sabotaged.

Without BobK, hang gliding's future doesn't stand a chance.

Then it doesn't stand a chance WITH BobK. If it all boils down to ONE individual - BobK, Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney, T** at K*** S****** - it's FUCKED.

Look at the Orwellian doublespeak coming from these sites.

Which sites? They discussing Bob on The Jack Show? Is Kite Strings one of them?

They accuse the US Hawks of attempting to "split" the sport.

I just accuse it of doing everything possible to keep it in the sewer.

For heaven's sake, the sport was split when it allowed parachuting a voice in 1987. WE ARE NOT PARACHUTISTS.

Yeah...

Robert Kuczewski - 81898
- H4 - 2005/09/13 - Steve Stackable - 2012/09/30 - FL AWCL CL FSL RLF TUR
- P4 - 2006/04/11 - Ken Baier - FL CL FSL HA RLF RS TUR

You sure?

Parachutists are killed when their parachutes collapse.

Hang gliders are killed when they go upright for better roll control at landing.

At least 1317 fatalities, so far. Who in their right minds would invite that into hang gliding?

And fuck towing too. Not pure enough.

Who in their right minds would hang onto that, carry that, defend that, pay for that?

Zack C - 2011/12/17 14:56:03 UTC

I don't know whether you were genuinely doing what you felt was the right thing to do or just looking for convenient justification to finally can Tad, but I believe your actions were inappropriate and set a terrible precedent for your organization.

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1563
Platform Launching (PL) Draft suggestions needed

Bob Kuczewski - 2014/06/06 17:21:51 UTC

I also like that this discussion emphasizes that breaking a weak link is something that can be practiced - just like we practice stalls - so we understand how to handle them and to not be afraid of them. I had a terrifying stall experience with my instructor when I was learning to fly airplanes back in the 70s. For a long time I feared getting close to stall. As long as I feared stalls, I was not spending much time getting comfortable with them, and that didn't make me a better pilot. So there's a lot to be said for safely learning to handle the inevitable rather than trying to come up with some way to avoid the inevitable.
Nice job Bill !!!!

Let them amuse themselves and destroy themselves as they drown in their dichotomy. Don't bring it here. We have a serious task ahead. We need people who understand the problem.

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=929
Training Manual Comments / Contribution

Warren Narron - 2012/01/06 18:55:32 UTC

Going against the grain here, but someone has to point out that the probable best candidate to write a training manual has been banned from this site.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8143/7462005802_bbc0ac66ac_o.jpg


http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1081
Platform towing /risk mitigation / accident

Sam Kellner - 2012/07/03 02:25:58 UTC

No, you don't get an accident report.

Thanks, BobK, for making that possible.

Yeah Rick. You can start holding your breath now.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.kitestrings.org/post7880.html#p7880

Knock yourselves out, Bob Show Sycophants.
---
Edit - 2015/05/25 04:54:00 UTC

Somehow managed to screw the link up. Fixed. Sorry 'bout that.