instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=41697
Two Dead on Hang Glider

Mark G. Forbes - 2015/04/17 01:19:44 UTC

Nuances

As with many things, the devil's in the details.

Nah, it's pretty much all in the tandem thrill ride industry and everything that stems from it.

It is not USHPA's responsibility to guarantee the safety of pilots.

Thank you so very much for clarifying that issue for us, Mark. I don't recall ANYONE ANYWHERE EVER raising it as an issue or coming into the sport with that assumption or expectation - but thanks bigtime anyway.

Neither is it the responsibility of instructors, flight park owners, land managers or other pilots.

How 'bout:

- backup loop manufacturers? If our mains fail and our backups blow apart can our families sue them?

- Florida Ridge deliberately launching gliders on a "runway"...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=5089
The Good-The Bad-The Ugly....

Socrates Zayas - 2008/01/14 05:22:38 UTC
Fort Lauderdale

Yesterday was a very emotional day for me and my household. My better half did something that I really didn't expect from a medical student/mother/busy no time to waste...

This would be the final flight of the day, just in front of her was a student tandem flight about to launch, so I was headed back to the car to finalize the packing up when I heard the tug make the familiar sound it does when a weak link breaks. I looked back to see the tug circle around and saw a wing turned up in a WHACK configuration. I was like "wow". Then I noticed it wasn't the tandem but Sherb-Air's Falcon 170.

When I got there her nose was lacerated and her lip was bleeding (yeah, she had a full face helmet) and the dolly's left wheel was missing.

The radiography showed acute multiple fractures around the top and head of the humerus. Her nose didn't break but she may have hairline fractures to the septum. She had a hard time remembering the date, day, names of her kids, number of kids, and other basic things...

The dolly had hit a huge hole and she went left shoulder into the ground at 25+ mph. The weak link did its job and may have saved her life.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=8719
Bad Aerotow Launch

Axel Banchero - 2008/09/30 19:44:01 UTC

I almost got hurt. And I heard stories of people getting hurt at the same place for the same reason.

I was getting ready in the dolly and took a look ahead. I saw a bump in my runway but didn't care much about it. While my friend assisted me to get ready to launch, I asked him "Is that some taller grass in front of me or is it a bump?" He replied "It's a bump so grab yourself tight on the base bar".

I hit it with the left wheel and the rope in my left hand just snapped off from my fingers. It actually hurt.

Somehow I managed to control the glider and take off without hitting the ground with one of my wingtips.

After I landed, my friend told me the tip of my wing passed about five inches off the ground.

Scott C. Wise - 2008/09/30 23:29:30 UTC

I've still got a problem with that "bump".

This is an active flight park. Don't they do anything to maintain their grounds? I've been at any number of small airports with grass strips and they are flat and level with no holes and no bumps. Somebody actually spends time "grooming" the area - for obvious and serious safety reasons.

How the heck does an aerotow park get off NOT doing a similar or better job? !!!!!

Axel Banchero - 2008/10/01 04:04:47 UTC

Yes, this is the Florida Ridge. Where Doc's wife got hurt after hitting a bump or something like that. I also heard another story with broken bones at the same place in a situation pretty much like mine.

...a mountain biker wouldn't be caught dead on? Brad get's a permanent revocation of his tandem ticket for THIS:

113-220710
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8700/17205433495_ea31ccab99_o.png


but those total pieces o' shit at Florida Ridge get to demolish all the paying victims they feel like by deliberately launching them on a fuckin' minefield?

Each pilot is personally and individually responsible for their own safety.

And the motherfuckers that sell and force everyone to use the shoddiest excuses for releases they can concoct in flagrant violation of even u$hPa regulations are totally off the hook.

That is a fundamental tenet of our sport.

Yeah, we all know that, Mark. How else do you explain Steve Exceptionally-Knowledgeable Wendt getting the Instructor of the Year Award for 2004 and then on:

- 2005/05/29 towing Holly Korzilius pro toad with bent pin "release" within easy reach into a critical oscillation then dumping her at the worst conceivable instant into a stall that two thirds kill her

- 2005/10/01 having Bill Priday - whom he signed off on his One, Two, and Three without ever once having him comply with the mandatory hook in check regulation and rating requirement - run off Whitwell without the Sport 2 he'd sold him

- 2006/02/21 having Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney, one of his instructor products, dive his glider and tandem thrill rider into the powerlines after finally not getting away with skipping a hook-in check

As an association we cannot guarantee that pilots will be safe.

Cool. I can guarantee that unless they manage to escape your clutches with outside help they WON'T be.

We know that there is risk...

No shit, Mark. ANYBODY on the u$hPa Fatality Report Shredding Committee would really know that.

...and that some will be injured or killed pursuing our activity.

And...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=27736
Increase in our USHpA dues

Mark G. Forbes - 2012/12/20 06:21:33 UTC

There are also numerous legal issues associated with accident reports, which we're still wrestling with. It's a trade-off between informing our members so they can avoid those kinds of accidents in the future, and exposing ourselves to even more lawsuits by giving plaintiff's attorneys more ammunition to shoot at us.

Imagine a report that concludes, "If we'd had a procedure "x" in place, then it would have probably prevented this accident. And we're going to put that procedure in place at the next BOD meeting." Good info, and what we want to be able to convey. But what comes out at trial is, "Ladies and Gentlemen of the Jury, my client suffered injury because USHPA knew or should have known that a safety procedure was not in place, and was therefore negligent and at fault." We're constantly walking this line between full disclosure and handing out nooses at the hangmen's convention.

...you're ALWAYS gonna know exactly why and what could've been done to ensure that it wouldn't have happened.

We have to recognize that and deal with the headaches that come from it.

Going out on the Jack Show, pretending you give a rat's ass, telling people:

- not to speculate, that we have a crack investigator on his way out there to get to the truth of the matter and will convey that information to our members when we learn what really happened

- week after week that you don't have any information from the investigation yet because it's so thorough and professional that every punctuation mark needs to be properly perfected before any information can be released to any of us stupid muppets

- that due to liability issues the entire report has been shredded and not one of us muppets will ever get to see a single one of those meticulously perfected punctuation marks

It's a dirty job but...

Pilots will make mistakes...

Unlike board members, administrators, ratings officials, instructors, bent pin release manufacturers, 130 pound Greenspot enforcers, hook-in check discussions saboteurs...

...and sometimes they will end up in danger despite their best efforts to avoid it.

And ALWAYS *BECAUSE* of your best efforts to annihilate all traces of competent airmanship from the sport.

What we *can* do is to provide information to pilots that will help them to make good, safe decisions.

How?

- You've already told us flat fuckin' out that you WON'T 'cause if you did you'd get your sleazy serial killing asses sued out of existence for not having done it three or four decades ago.

- You think that just because you sleazy pigfuckers got elected by hordes of total morons to positions within this crime syndicate that you're qualified to define this information - despite the fact that you've been ignoring, distorting, shredding crash data for decades?

We cannot guarantee that they will...

Really? I was SO hoping that by providing information to pilots you could GUARANTEE that they'd ALWAYS make good, safe decisions. Like when fifteen-year-olds are provided information in driver's ed that will help them to make good, safe decisions we can GUARANTEE that all of them always will.

...but we can provide what information we have to inform them of how to minimize risk.

Oh. You CAN? So why haven't you? Where is it? When can we expect to get a peek at it? In about a month? The time I was locked down in Bob's Basement for him to run his "experiment"?

The tandem operating rules are one such means of informing pilots.

Oh great! So is it OK for us solo pilots to use the tandem operating rules to stay safe? Can't we just hook in a Cabbage Patch Kid to take care of the specific tandem issues and duplicate everything to the T?

So what do you think went wrong with Kelly and Arys? You checked Kelly out under the tandem operating rules, there was never a single hint of a criticism for conduct, he had well under a half dozen wing walking videos, the surviving family members have nothing but praise to heap on him, near two months of intense crack accident investigation in cooperation with the Vegas police and we haven't heard so much as an accusation that his backup loop was twisted. Yet we have a 55 year old Hang Five Advanced Tandem Instructor and his eleven year old skydiving student deader than doornails on the first tow of the day in totally benign conditions at the best surface tow site on the planet. And NOTHING was done WRONG by ANYBODY involved in the operation.

The definition of a tandem site is another.

Well, wide fucking open flatter than pancakes dry lakebeds are obviously out. How 'bout we give the ideal landing zone - the narrow dry riverbed with large rocks strewn all over the place - a shot?

And so on...

Oh, please don't burden us with any so-ons. We're already buried in so much solid safety information that we won't be able to scratch the surface any time within the next half dozen years.

...our SOPs are essentially a collection of good advice accrued over the years, often from experience gained in past accidents.

Tons of people getting demolished in...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=21088
What you wish you'd known then?

Doug Doerfler - 2011/03/02 05:24:44 UTC

Nothing creates carnage like declaring a spot landing contest.

...spot landing contests? More practice with tighter spot landing tolerances.

People getting killed because their Rooney Links are breaking after they've gotten into too much trouble?

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks

Jim Rooney - 2013/03/05 21:40:02 UTC

I'm not saying that you've claimed that a stronger weaklink allows for a greater AOA... I'm telling you that it does.
You know this.
I'll spell it out anyway...
Increases in AOA increase the load factor... push it beyond what the weaklink can stand and *POP*, you're off tow.
Increase the load factor that the weaklink can withstand and you increase the achievable AOA.

This ain't truck towing. There is no pressure limiting mechanism. Push out and you load the line. Push out hard and you'll break the weaklink... that's the whole idea.

You want to break off the towline? Push out... push out hard... it will break.
As others have pointed out, they've used this fact intentionally to get off tow. It works.

You want MORE.
I want you to have less.
This is the fundamental disagreement.
You're afraid of breaking off with a high AOA? Good... tow with a WEAKER weaklink... you won't be able to achieve a high AOA. Problem solved.

I'm sorry that you don't like that the tug pilot has the last word... but tough titties.
Don't like it?
Don't ask me to tow you.

Go troll somewhere else buddy.
I'm over this.

Lighter Rooney Links. Problem solved. I'm sorry that you don't like that the tug pilot has the last word... but tough titties. Don't like it? Don't ask him to tow you. Go troll somewhere else buddy. Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney is over this.

We can't say that if you follow the SOPs you won't get hurt, but we CAN say that if you don't follow the SOPs you are increasing your chances of being hurt or killed.

The United States Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association, Inc. - 2015/03/03
12. Standard Operating Procedure
02. Pilot Proficiency System
08. Intermediate Hang Gliding Rating (H-3)
-B. Required Witnessed Tasks
02. Demonstrated Skills and Knowledge

-g. For witnessed tasks, all landings must be safe, smooth, on the feet, and in control.

Gil Dodgen - 1995/01

All of this reminds me of a comment Mike Meier made when he was learning to fly sailplanes. He mentioned how easy it was to land a sailplane (with spoilers for glide-path control and wheels), and then said, "If other aircraft were as difficult to land as hang gliders no one would fly them."

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=22176
Paragliding Collapses

Jim Rooney - 2011/06/12 13:57:58 UTC

Most common HG injury... spiral fracture of the humerus.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27086
Steve Pearson on landings

Steve Pearson - 2012/03/28 23:26:05 UTC

I can't control the glider in strong air with my hands at shoulder or ear height and I'd rather land on my belly with my hands on the basetube than get turned downwind.

(I'm speaking here of SOPs related to flight...nobody so far has been killed by violating an elections committee SOP.)

Right. NOBODY's ever been scratched as a consequence of any of the political machinations within the monopoly corporation which controls hang gliding in the US.

Our SOPs are reviewed and amended regularly as we gain more knowledge and learn from experience.

Goddam fucking right they are. You've already told us flat out and we've obviously seen for ourselves that you're NEVER gonna use YOUR SOPs to FIX a problem 'cause you'll open yourselves up to liability issues and the very real risk of getting sued out of existence. So what CAN be documented is your constant gutting of SOLID SOPs, like the use of certified gliders for aerotowing, and amendment of dangerous bullshit SOPs, like mandatory helmet use at all times while clipped into gliders.

We're working on the accident reporting system revision, but it's slow going as we work out the details of confidentiality of information and protecting it from being used against us through legal discovery.

And obviously THOSE issues supersede any concerns about killing the next eleven year old skydiving student.

I'm not the expert on exactly how that's being done...

Oh really? Just how many semesters of post grad do you need to become the expert on how our totally excellent accident reporting system is being degraded, perverted, turned against everyone who actually goes up in these things?

...but there's a framework in place for it and it's in process.

Yep...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/26 06:04:23 UTC

Troll

Hahahaha.
That seriously made me chuckle.

I get what you're saying Christopher.
Please understand that I'm not advocating professional infalliblity. Not really sure where I mentioned that, but I can understand where you might have drawn that assumption. None the less, I simply refer to "us" as the "professional pilots" as a term to describe the pilots that do this for a living. Yes, we're just humans... bla bla bla... my point is that we do this a whole sh*tload more than the "average pilot"... and not just a little more... a LOT.

We discuss this stuff a lot more as well. We vet more ideas. This isn't just "neat stuff" to us... it's very real and we deal with it every day.

It's not "us" that has the track record... it's our process.
We're people just like anyone else. And that's the point. THIS is how we do it... normal, fallible humans... and it bloody well works.

So I don't give much credence to something that someone doesn't agree with about what we do for some theoretical reason.

Take this weaklink nonsense.
What do I "advocate"?
I don't advocate shit... I *USE* 130 test lb, greenspun cortland braided fishing line.
It is industry standard.
It is what *WE* use.

If someone's got a problem with it... we've got over ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND TANDEM TOWS and COUNTLESS solo tows that argue otherwise. So they can politely get stuffed.

As my friend likes to say... "Sure, it works in reality... but does it work in theory?"
Hahahahhaa... I like that one a lot

I never doubted for a nanosecond that you assholes had a process in place - one that...

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/24 16:26:09 UTC

Welcome to towing.
We've been doing this a long time and are quite familiar and comfortable with our processes.

Be nice and we can discuss it.
Be obnoxious and you can piss off.

Your choice.

...you've been using a long time and are quite familiar and comfortable with. One that's just as lethal to the people actually flying the gliders as the standard aerotow weak link was.

As to this specific accident, I've heard nothing as yet about the current state of the investigation.

What's it matter? Everybody and his dog knows that it was gonna be a total cover-up exercise by a u$hPa/Industry dildo starting Day One and the only legitimate information we were ever gonna get on it happened through the mainstream news media in the course of a couple days - mostly the first one.

I'm confident that when it's complete and there's something to report, I'll hear about it then.

I'm totally confident you'll hear about it then too, Mark. Meaning NEVER - 'cause y'all are doing such an thorough job on this one that it's NEVER gonna be complete and until it's complete there will be NOTHING to report.

Unless there's a compelling reason not to report on it...

There's ALWAYS a compelling reason not to report on stuff 'cause there's ALWAYS some degree of contributory negligence attributable to instructors, ratings officials, administrators, and those who set the Standard Operating Procedures and prevent the implementation of fixes to well known lethal and ancient lethal problems.

I'll pass along what I know.

You already have.

If there is a compelling reason which prevents me from discussing it, I'll tell you that too.

When? Oh, right. Since the investigation will never be complete...

If I haven't said anything about it, then it's because I don't have anything to say yet.

The same way you had absolutely nothing to say regarding the reason for Brad getting his tandem ticket permanently revoked for the totally legal, safe, and aboveboard relative work he was doing while Max - the other half of the atrocity on the video - never got the slightest slap on the wrist.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=41697
Two Dead on Hang Glider

Tommy Thompson - 2015/04/17 02:01:17 UTC
Whitewater

Each pilot is personally and individually responsible for their own safety. That is a fundamental tenet of our sport.

Mark, that is true for all rated pilots, can't, shouldn't, better not be for un-rated pilots. That's where USHPA's SOPs and the Tandem and Safety Committees step in.

Yeah, don't they do just super jobs of stepping in?

If not for the SOPs the FAA would never have given the exception.

We've got the exemption, the FAA has never given the slightest flying fuck about anything we do, nobody even blinked when this kid got killed... So what's you're point?

Mark G. Forbes - 2015/04/17 02:27:18 UTC

Perhaps I should have been more explicit. Each pilot in command is responsible for their own safety. A tandem student on an instructional flight is not the pilot in command; he's a student under instruction. In that specific case, the tandem instructor has primary responsibility for safe flight.

Guess Kelly was doing everything right.

- Obviously no problem with his driver 'cause...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=32681
Tandem crash in LV (speculation thread)

Mark G. Forbes - 2015/04/01 03:46:29 UTC

We each agree that we are personally and individually responsible for our own safety. If we have an accident and get hurt, we agree in advance that it is solely our own fault, no matter what the circumstances might be. We sign at the bottom saying that we fully understand these things, that we accept them, and that we know we are giving up the right to sue anybody if an accident happens.

Those are fundamental tenets of our sport. We are all individually responsible for ourselves and our safety. We need to see and avoid all other pilots, avoid crashing into people or property and use good judgment when flying. If someone doesn't agree with those principles, then they don't need to be involved in our sport.

...a bad pin man can have no bearing on the safety of the glider. We've agreed in advance that anything bad that happens is solely our fault. That's a fundamental tenet of our sport. And, what the fuck, neither Kelly nor his eleven year old skydiving student have remained to be further involved in our sport anyway.

- And Kelly made no mistakes. Two months come Wednesday and there hasn't been a single syllable's worth of criticism from anybody - skydiving student's family, driver, local instructors, u$hPa, FAA, police investigation, keyboard warriors... Shit just happens sometimes and there's nothing anybody can do about it.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=27396
Scooter tow faillure... or Never Land On Your Face

Mitch Shipley - 2012/10/22 19:04:16 UTC

We engage in a sport that has risk and that is part of the attraction.

Part of the attraction. If we weren't rolling dice with our lives each flight - even under the most benign conditions using the safest launch mode possible in an ideal environment - it just wouldn't be any fun to pursue this sport. Might as well stay home and play checkers.

To that end, USHPA provides tandem instructors with additional training and evaluation, as well as additional information.

OH! So you're not and can't be in the business of keeping solo recreational pilots safe because if you start doing it you risk being sued out of existence for prior negligence and/or incompetence...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25321
Stop the Stupids at the USHPA BOD meeting

Mark G. Forbes - 2011/09/29 02:26:23 UTC

We can establish rules which we think will improve pilot safety, but our attorney is right. USHPA is not in the business of keeping pilots "safe" and it can't be. Stepping into that morass is a recipe for extinction of our association. I wish it were not so, but it is. We don't sell equipment, we don't offer instruction, and we don't assure pilots that they'll be safe. Even so, we get sued periodically by people who say we "shoulda, coulda, woulda" done something that would have averted their accident.

It's not just concern for meet directors and policy makers...it's about our continued existence as an association. It's about minimizing the chance of our getting sued out of existence. We're one lawsuit away from that, all the time, and we think hard about it.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=27736
Increase in our USHpA dues

Mark G. Forbes - 2012/12/20 06:21:33 UTC

There are also numerous legal issues associated with accident reports, which we're still wrestling with. It's a trade-off between informing our members so they can avoid those kinds of accidents in the future, and exposing ourselves to even more lawsuits by giving plaintiff's attorneys more ammunition to shoot at us.

Imagine a report that concludes, "If we'd had a procedure "x" in place, then it would have probably prevented this accident. And we're going to put that procedure in place at the next BOD meeting." Good info, and what we want to be able to convey. But what comes out at trial is, "Ladies and Gentlemen of the Jury, my client suffered injury because USHPA knew or should have known that a safety procedure was not in place, and was therefore negligent and at fault." We're constantly walking this line between full disclosure and handing out nooses at the hangmen's convention.

...but you CAN and MUST step into the morass of keeping tandem thrill riders safe. And in that case you WON'T be in any danger of being sued out of existence. If a hang glider truck tow goes wrong and the driver can't make the easy reach to his release...

http://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5788/23461251751_e98b9c7500_o.png


...quite in time you can safely address the issues that brought him down by enacting an SOP to make it illegal to be hooked into a glider...



...without a helmet and permanently revoke a paraglider thrill ride driver's tandem ticket for doing safe and legal...

065-165122
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7626/16582991104_894af44666_o.png


...relative work.

When it comes to our attention that tandem instructors are engaged in flying maneuvers that we consider to be unreasonably hazardous...

113-220710
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8700/17205433495_ea31ccab99_o.png


http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8697/16463566373_3f21d65f25_o.png
KTNV13-5626

...we notify them...

...with a permanent revocation of the tandem ticket...

...and we update the related SOPs as needed.

...to try to justify the permanent revocation of the tandem ticket. Clock somebody going 55 on a 65 road on Tuesday, change the signs to 25 on Wednesday, then throw him in jail on Thursday for doing over twice the legal limit - which ANY reasonable person would consider to be unreasonably hazardous - 'specially with a cute li'l person of a varying age strapped in.

In the case you cite, we sent out a notice to tandem instructors about this...

Think ya got Brad's attention?

...because we didn't want to wait until a board meeting to deal with it.

Yeah, why wait for all the trial, jury, due process bullshit when you can just have a quick execution with no questions asked. "WE" *CONSIDERED* these maneuvers to be unreasonably hazardous, with no evidence whatsoever to support our OPINION, so WE went in and fixed the "problem" - and doled out the future-crime punishment to really get the message out effectively.

The point remains, in any case. USHPA cannot guarantee the safety of pilots.

Whose point was that other than yours?

Pilots are responsible for that.

But an elite bureaucratic hit team is gonna wipe out the career of a professional tandem thrill ride driver with Advanced hang and para glider ratings and signoffs, experience, skills coming out of his ass and without so much as a light bonk on his record because you douchebags don't think he really knows what he's doing.

We can provide information and guidance...

How? You're ELECTED douchebags running a corporation whose sole purpose is to protect itself and none of you is required to have so much as a One in either discipline. What the hell qualifies you to provide ANYTHING?

...but we cannot prevent an accident from happening, even in cases where the pilot is following all of our SOPs.

Fuck no. Your motivation is to KEEP them happening at as fast and furious as pace as possible. 'Cause the more ugly shit that happens out there the less conspicuous a Kelly/Arys will look to the membership and public.

There are just too many unanticipated circumstances that might contribute to an accident.

Yeah, it's not like running fighters off of carriers for combat missions in which you have standard black and white procedures for everything - consistent around the world and fundamentally the same since the advent of naval aviation... This hang and para gliding stuff is just pretty much infinitely complex and there's no fuckin' way we can deal with it while maintaining our schedule of FOCUSED PILOT wristband production.

When we identify a pattern or a common root cause (not hooked in, high winds, extreme maneuvers, etc.) then we address that with operating limits in the SOPs.

Damn! You mean not being hooked in, flying in high winds, pulling extreme maneuvers, et cetera can be DANGEROUS?!?!?! Who'da thunk. If I send in triple my membership dues will that help you guys speed up addressing that shit in the SOPs? And maybe I can put in some effort to getting the word out to some of my friends. And maybe I can persuade them to tune in some of THEIR friends... I'm just hoping most people will be able to handle the complexity of this stuff - 'specially the et cetera issues.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=41697
Two Dead on Hang Glider

Mark G. Forbes - 2015/04/17 02:27:18 UTC

Perhaps I should have been more explicit. Each pilot in command is responsible for their own safety. A tandem student on an instructional flight is not the pilot in command; he's a student under instruction. In that specific case, the tandem instructor has primary responsibility for safe flight.

He's the fucking PILOT In COMMAND. Doesn't he have TOTAL fucking responsibility for a safe flight? Like EVERYWHERE ELSE in aviation? Or does hang gliding just make that distinction so that when the flight ends up like:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8737/16790136379_c1c17b2f86_o.png


http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8697/16463566373_3f21d65f25_o.png
KTNV13-5626

we can place the requisite degree of blame on...



...the copilot?

To that end, USHPA provides tandem instructors with additional training and evaluation, as well as additional information.

What's this "additional information" that u$hPa doesn't provide to us solo recreational muppets?

- Is there a TWENTY-EIGHT page MUCH Higher Education article on aerotow weak links that you can only access with a Tandem Instructor password?

- Are you sure all these tandem instructors have all the medium educational prerequisites to properly grasp...

Tiki Mashy - 32484 - H5 - 1997/02/12 - GW Meadows
- AT FL PL ST TAT TFL TPL TST AWCL CL FSL RLF TUR XC
- ADV INST, AT TOW EX, AT TOW OBS, EXAM, PL TOW OBS, TAND ADMIN, TAND INST, TUG PILOT

Bart Weghorst - 67015 - H5 - 2003/02/02 - Tiki Mashy
- AT FL PL ST TAT TFL TST AWCL CL FSL RLF TUR XC
- ADV INST, AT ADMIN, PL ADMIN, TAND INST, TUG PILOT

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Bart Weghorst - 2011/08/28 20:29:27 UTC

Now I don't give a shit about breaking strength anymore. I really don't care what the numbers are. I just want my weaklink to break every once in a while.

Ben Dunn - Canyon Lake, Texas - 69162 - H4 - 2001/09/21 - George Reeves
- AT FL ST TFL AWCL CL FSL RLF TUR XC
- BAS INST, MNTR, TAND INST

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-9Ek9_lFeSII/UZ4KuB0MUSI/AAAAAAAAGyU/eWfhGo4QeqY/s1024/GOPR5278.JPG

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Xh_NfnOcUns/UZ4Lm0HvXnI/AAAAAAAAGyk/0PlgrHfc__M/s1024/GOPR5279.JPG

Paul Tjaden - 78078 - H4 - 2004/01/15 - Daniel Brotto
- AT FL LGO TAT AWCL CL FSL RLF TUR XC
- AT ADMIN, AT TOW OBS, BAS INST, MNTR, OBS, TAND INST

Lauren Tjaden - 78079 - H4 - 2005/03/03 - Steve Kroop
- AT FL LGO TAT RLF TUR XC
- MNTR

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24534
It's a wrap

Lauren Tjaden - 2011/08/01 02:01:06 UTC

For whomever asked about the function of a weak link, it is to release the glider and plane from each other when the tow forces become greater than desirable -- whether that is due to a lockout or a malfunction of equipment or whatever. This can save a glider, a tow pilot, or more often, a hang glider pilot who does not get off of tow when he or she gets too far out of whack.

I rarely break weak links -- in fact, I believe the last one was some two years ago, and I have never broken one on a tandem (probably because I am light and also because I change them whenever they show any signs of wear). They are a good thing to have, though!!

James Rooney - 78142
- H4- 2004/09/03 - Paul (Sunny) Venesky
-- AT FL LGO PL ST TAT TFL RLF TUR XC
-- AT TOW OBS, TAND INST, TUG PILOT
- P4 - 2008/01/29 - Marc Fink
-- FL ST TFL CL FSL HA RLF RS TUR XC
-- ST TOW OBS, TAND INST

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks

Jim Rooney - 2013/03/05 21:40:02 UTC

I'm not saying that you've claimed that a stronger weaklink allows for a greater AOA... I'm telling you that it does.
You know this.
I'll spell it out anyway...
Increases in AOA increase the load factor... push it beyond what the weaklink can stand and *POP*, you're off tow.
Increase the load factor that the weaklink can withstand and you increase the achievable AOA.

This ain't truck towing. There is no pressure limiting mechanism. Push out and you load the line. Push out hard and you'll break the weaklink... that's the whole idea.

You want to break off the towline? Push out... push out hard... it will break.
As others have pointed out, they've used this fact intentionally to get off tow. It works.

Zack Marzec - 88356 - H4 - 2012/02/11 - Jon Thompson
- AT FL LGO TAT 360 AWCL CL FSL RLF TUR XC
- ADV INST, TAND INST

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-bRrpHNa68iY/UQ6Pv9gRZyI/AAAAAAAAjTg/Hc22bx5122Q/s2048/20943781_BG1.jpg


...all the finer points?

- I guess you make all these tandem instructors sign nondisclosure agreements to prevent them from sharing this additional information with us muppets so you don't get sued out of existence. And I guess this agreement is a lifetime deal - not just in effect for the duration of...

Paul Tjaden - 78078 - Exp: 2013/10/31

Lauren Tjaden - 78079 - Exp: 2013/11/30

James Rooney - 78142 - Exp: 2014/05/31

Hey guys... Now that I'm out I can tell y'all what REALLY happened with the Zack Marzec fatality.

...their memberships. Must be some pretty brutal enforcement provisions 'cause I've never once heard a tandem instructor of any status even hint at the existence of this additional information.

- I'm guessing these tandem instructors get tuned into the additional information which explains why weak links even well under the middle of the range and what u$hPa recommends for all us recreational muppets in its SOPs and REGULAR Higher Education articles...

Marc Fink - 53522
- H4 - 1994/01/13 - Rob Millman - AT PL ST TAT TFL TPL TST AWCL CL FSL RLF TUR XC
- P4 - 2003/09/19 - Dwayne McCourt - FL ST TFL CL FSL HA RLF RS TUR XC

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
weak links

Marc Fink - 2007/05/19 12:58:31 UCT

A 400lb load limit for a solo tow is absurd.

Last year's jihad was against releases--now you're going after weaklinks.

Everyone supports you making efforts to improve things--but in the process you trash the present methods as somehow being an accident waiting to happen.

...are so absurdly dangerous.

- If this additional information is so valuable to tandem instructors then how come they need to...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/25 04:55:25 UTC

Ditto dude.

It always amazes to hear know it all pilots arguing with the professional pilots.
I mean seriously, this is our job.
We do more tows in a day than they do in a month (year for most).

We *might* have an idea of how this stuff works.
They *might* do well to listen.
Not that they will, mind you... cuz they *know*.

I mean seriously... ridgerodent's going to inform me as to what Kroop has to say on this? Seriously? Steve's a good friend of mine. I've worked at Quest with him. We've had this discussion ... IN PERSON. And many other ones that get misunderstood by the general public. It's laughable.

Don't even get me started on Tad. That obnoxious blow hard has gotten himself banned from every flying site that he used to visit... he doesn't fly anymore... because he has no where to fly. His theories were annoying at best and downright dangerous most of the time. Good riddance.

So, argue all you like.
I don't care.
I've been through all these arguments a million times... this is my job.
I could be more political about it, but screw it... I'm not in the mood to put up with tender sensibilities... Some weekend warrior isn't about to inform me about jack sh*t when it comes to towing. I've got thousands upon thousands of tows under my belt. I don't know everything, but I'll wager the house that I've got it sussed a bit better than an armchair warrior.

...suss things out individually - and not even be one hundred percent certain they've managed to suss them out better than an armchair warrior muppet? How come they've gotta engage in all these...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/30 02:16:16 UTC

They're not here cuz they don't feel like arguing all the time.
Most of the other people "in the business" don't come here cuz it turns into a shouting match too often.

Look how uppity people got when I even termed people "in the business" "professional pilots".
It's accurate, but some got all offended. They couldn't stand that someone doesn't see their uninformed opinion as holding as much weight as an informed one.
I know (very) basic electronics, but I don't argue with the electrician about which capacitor he uses for the timing circuit in my toaster. It's just not my field.

I know a lot of regular joes that do the same... for the same reason. There's a lot of lurkers here that really really do not care to get sucked into the mud.

I can't blame them, I avoid this place on a regular basis.
It's a shame too, cuz there's a lot of really really nice people in HG. Most are.
And all this sewing circle, drama queen bullshit keeps a lot of very informed people away... ya'll miss out on a lot.
The actual "insider" discussions, that you never see, are so much better.

But man oh man, do people not feel the need to even be civil here sometimes.
Have a think about that next time you're off on a tirade.
(not directed at you Tommy, just in general)

...privileged insider discussions to arrive at God's Honest Truth?

- And how many more decades do you think you can keep this additional information from leaking out to us solo recreational muppets? Isn't it pretty much inevitable that someone will succumb to bribery or there will be a deathbed confession from some terminally ill tandem instructor who decides he DOESN'T want to spend the rest of eternity roasting in Hell?

[Tad Eareckson]

Paul Tjaden - 78078 - Exp: 2013/10/31

Lauren Tjaden - 78079 - Exp: 2013/11/30

James Rooney - 78142 - Exp: 2014/05/31

Catch that, people of varying ages? Three motherfuckers who were key players in the Zack Marzec fatality on 2013/02/02.

- The Tjaden Twins seem to have quietly vanished from the surface of the planet and Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney, the self-appointed Pilot In Command and Savior of all hang gliders towed behind Dragonflies hasn't been qualified to hook up behind a Dragonfly in any capacity for a year minus a week. (Probably got scared off by the new and improved standard aerotow weak link that everyone is happy with.)

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/25 04:55:25 UTC

Don't even get me started on Tad. That obnoxious blow hard has gotten himself banned from every flying site that he used to visit... he doesn't fly anymore... because he has no where to fly. His theories were annoying at best and downright dangerous most of the time. Good riddance.

So tell us where in the US *YOU* can fly hang and/or para gliders, Jim. Scooter towing at the airport I guess but nothing from any u$hPa insured site anywhere. You've got the same range of options that Bob does.

And I HOPE that the Zack Marzec fatality was the catalyst that ended the careers of the Twins. At least one of those douchebags has enough brains to know how much responsibility he bears for that one.

P.S. Hey Mark... Got an estimate on the number of lives that have been lost as a consequence of your withholding of the Additional Information from us solo recreational muppets?

[Tad Eareckson]

Hey Mark...

Seeing as how the tandem thrill ride industry is hugely about selling GoPro videos to its bucket listers we've all seen zillions of them - 'cept for the really good ones that end up with Tim Herr, the police, getting swallowed, the ones we're better off not using as examples to be following.

So if you're giving these tandem instructors Additional Information so that their bucket listers have better chances of survival than we solo recreational muppets then shouldn't we be seeing evidence of this exceptionality on YouTube?

The towing equipment used for tandem...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3107
I have a tandem rating!!!

Lauren Tjaden - 2008/03/23 22:20:15 UTC

When Jim got me locked out to the right, I couldn't keep the pitch of the glider with one hand for more than a second (the pressure was a zillion pounds, more or less), but the F'ing release slid around when I tried to hit it. The barrel release wouldn't work because we had too much pressure on it.

Anyhow, the tandem can indeed perform big wingovers, as I demonstrated when I finally got separated from the tug.

http://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5788/23461251751_e98b9c7500_o.png


...is EXACTLY the same chintzy easily reachable bent pin crap you sell us...

022-04610
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2809/13746340634_a74b33d285_o.png


...muppets.

For the past couple years all aerotowed gliders, from two hundred pound little girls to five hundred pound fat tandems, have used the same weak link - the Dragonfly tow mast breakaway protector.

All hang (and pretty much all para) gliders land on...

46-45901
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2937/14081080220_373f64f01d_o.png


...Happy Acres putting greens. Is the Additional Information you give just for the tandem hang glider thrill ride drivers and...

Gil Dodgen - 1995/01

All of this reminds me of a comment Mike Meier made when he was learning to fly sailplanes. He mentioned how easy it was to land a sailplane (with spoilers for glide-path control and wheels), and then said, "If other aircraft were as difficult to land as hang gliders no one would fly them."

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=22176
Paragliding Collapses

Jim Rooney - 2011/06/12 13:57:58 UTC

Most common HG injury... spiral fracture of the humerus.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27086
Steve Pearson on landings

Steve Pearson - 2012/03/28 23:26:05 UTC

I can't control the glider in strong air with my hands at shoulder or ear height and I'd rather land on my belly with my hands on the basetube than get turned downwind.

7-14522


...to ALWAYS stay prone and land on the wheels and NEVER go upright and attempt a foot landing? Isn't that rather CONTRADICTORY rather than ADDITIONAL Information? Seeing as how you force all us muppets to do spot no-steppers for all our ratings?

You can fool all of the people some of the time... You can't pull off a scam of this scale without one or two of us muppets seeing through and debunking it.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=42748
Not happy at Lookout

Davis Straub - 2015/06/11 22:52:40 UTC

I received this today:

From: Doc Savage
Sent: 2015/06/11 16:35

Dear Davis. You were just recommended to me from a Friend

Check your Friends and/or Self.

...that you may wish to post this to the Oz Report. I'm too old and sick now to start signing up with new places, but this is what I just went through, and hopefully I'll get it out of my system soon, so I may enjoy what time I have left with AOD.

Hello Folks.

I just returned from Lookout Mountain Hang Gliding Flight Park, and must be honest with you.

As opposed to your normal mode.

This being the 5th time I left home since 1969 turned out to be the worst 3 weeks and $2.000 Dollars, $1,400 of which went to lessons that were absolutely useless, along with the Owner of the Lookout Mountain Park, Matt Taber. He turned out to be a lying Blasphemer

Yeah, fuck that lying Blasphemer.

...along with his 2 bit Stoolie, Shawn. What started out as a great experience upon arriving was a complete nightmare at the end.

When six years ago I stupidly allowed myself to be conned by that two bit motherfucker into going down there to meet with him it was a complete nighmare pretty much from the get-go.

I had the sad opportunity of meeting the owner Matt Taber at their store on top of the Mountain. Apparently he thought I put $2,400 down on a glider which was a misinterpretation on his part. I had the girl who ran the store to put it in their safe so I didn't carry such a large amount with me.
While talking with him, he said to me that,(Ahhh, for another $1,500 we can put a set of heavy duty wheels on the Hang Glider for landing.) He said it as though it was 2 bits. When he said that, I told him forget it, I'm not able to afford that much more plus all the other equipment that goes along with owning a Hang Glider. That was my 1st week at that time when this all occurred. I had 15 Tandem Tickets, And 3 Solo Tickets. They make you buy the last 2 solo tickets needed to qualify.

What this Matt Taber went and did to me as a Pastor and a 100% Disabled Veteran, is unconscionable. He told his instructors to back off on teaching me, so as to fail the course. "Yes", I was told this by instructors who told me that because of Matt they were told not to sign me off on what I accomplished. When I got down to my last 3 Aero Tow Tandem Tickets and 3 Solo Tickets , Owner, Matt Taber, personally told my Instructor not to pass me for Solo. That being the case, I refused to waste the price of the tickets for nothing, and Matt Tabers Mole, Shawn, who is like a stoolie texts him everything that happens throughout the day, whether it be about an employee or student, good or bad.

Shawn took my tickets and told me he'd get me a refund of $200.00 for them. At noon the next day I approached Shawn, and he told me Matt refused to give a refund. By the time I got done Hollering at him,I had all but lost my voice, telling him what kind of Evil people you work for, and that same day because of getting so excited had to take 9 Nitro Glycerene Tabs, and when that mixed with my Isosorbide Nitrate,(Time released Nitro Glycerine) became quit sick for 2 hours dry heaving.

I was so infuriated that I almost disregarded taking my Venlefaxine, for Bi-Polar. But, there is no one worth going to prison for there...

I'd have chipped in a hundred bucks for your legal defense fund if you'd smashed his skull in.

...so God helped me to get through this dark time in my life that I thought were all days of the past.

Tell him I said hi.

Finally, the Instructor that I first booked with was able to talk to this Matt Taber, and procure my $200.00 rebate for the tickets I had turned in 2 days earlier at that point.

Since Matt Taber was 100% responsible at this point for not allowing me to finish the course with my last tickets, and refused to let me even Solo after all my tandem lessons, I am for the first time in my life contesting it through Visa. Something of which I've never had to do in 67 years. But I paid him $1,400.00 in good faith up front for the course, and because he thought I had put money down on a Glider, became quite upset when I told him, "That's It"! I can't afford any more so at the completion of the course I won't have the funds to order what I intended to at that time. It was that action that started this whole Matt Taber machine in motion against me finishing the course.

And to make matters even worse, I heard from instructors and 3 different Hang Gliding Flight Parks, in not so plain language how he's done this to so many students it's ridiculous. He will make them fail the course initially so they will have to buy more Tandem Tickets to get through the course at $75.00/ticket.

It's a shame that so many well qualified instructors prostitute themselves out to Matt Taber for their services. And especially this Shawn character who is no better then a mole that Burroughs his way under the ground. 3 Times I called Shawn and told him I wanted to see this Matt Taber personally, but he had not the brass to meet me face to face. If ever a man can be associated with a weasel , Matt Taber Fits this description to a tee,

So what have weasels ever done to you?

And here I thought I did all the proper research on Hang Gliding Parks and chose the right one.

Didn't do much research here, did ya motherfucker?

The instructors are truly all good people...

Sure they are. Didn't ya just love the way they all stepped up to help debunk all this Kelly/Arys fatality bullshit?

and of course had their sympathy for the way I was treated by the Owner of the Flight Park.

But sympathy doesn't get back the balance of $1,200.00 in lessons that were all in vain, because of the owner's telling all instructors to not pass me. I will post this on the Lookout Mountain Hang Gliding Page also...

I'll keep checking it for your review.

...because it is a sad truth that all should be made aware of, even those considering taking Lessons at that specific Park. Be cautious, because it was people who were directly working for Matt Taber that told me about the Illegal activities he engages in, forcing students to spend several hundred or more then the cost of the course to pass it. At 67 yrs, and PTSD from 1966, never have I been swindled as I was at Lookout Mountain Hang Gliding Flight Park.

This entire Journey has sealed my mind against ever leaving home again.

Pastor Marc Bialeck
1397 11th Ct
Friendship, Wisconsin

William Olive - 2015/06/12 01:00:03 UTC
Newcastle, Australia

Why would you even post this?

Why would anyone who gives a flying fuck about hang gliding NOT post that - asshole?

Pastor Marc Bialeck - 2015/06/12 02:20:30 UTC

To help other Veterans with Agent Orange Dioxin as myself from investing in something that the owner of this park refuses to allow veterans to pass this course with an inane, made up excuse to make him look good to other people. When he could have told me from the beginning maybe I should reconsider, or, he doesn't allow 67 year old Veterans dying from Monsanto's great Chemical warfare AOD, to ever reach the point of soloing. In 1966 I flew OV1B's, and ran SLAR in Country. What did you do for this country Billo?

- What was it you accomplished or thought you would?
- Billo's Australian.

I gave my all. It just takes a long time to slowly die for some if us. 200 fellow vets I sat with at the V.A. over the past 10 years are now gone. Soon it will be me, and I look forward to it. I just hate to see other Vets also lied to that might want to fly Hang gliders. Had I known this Matt Taber from the beginning, I would have taken lessons right here in Whitewater, Wi.

Careful dude. Their aerotow students tend to just freeze during lockouts - 'specially the ones who fly with Lockout Mountain Flight Park releases - and people coming in for landings tend to get killed by invisible dust devils.

Anything else you want to know now, about why even post here, Billo?????

Billo's a Davis Show dickhead. Don't waste your time on him.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1921
Getting lessons for HG can be tough.

Bill Cummings - 2015/06/12 02:55:41 UTC

Davis posted this over on the OZ Report Index...

Well Matt, now ya got this posted on The Davis Show and duplicated on two of the three most prominent general hang gliding sites. Hope you really enjoyed yourself jerking this guy around.

Prediction... Bob will say NOTHING about this 'cause he doesn't wanna risk alienating anyone who might be in Lockout's camp.

[Steve Davy]

I wish that someone would post that on the Jack Asshole forum.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=42748
Not happy at Lookout

Fred Wilson - 2015/06/12 07:35:48 UTC

Hey Pastor Marc Bialeck

Check out the thread I am replying to at HG.org:

FANTASY Flight Park! What is your personal wish? (5304 views)
See: http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=18993

I can tell you from the get go I would not ever ever put or want to see Lookout Mountain Flight Park there.
- I rather suspect their 5 Star rating (seen at Google Search) was ± all put up by staff...

I was there quite a few years ago on a BC Canada to Dallas Tx to Quebec trip. I was treated like absolute dirt at LMFP, and I am a Master Rated Pilot!

I was so spitting mad I never even signed up or flew there. I bailed... and just pushed on to spend more time at Morningside on my way to Quebec.

And we both used the expression "from the get-go".

Copy it to The Jack Show. Put it on your stupid "Wiki". Do as much damage to that motherfucker as possible. Divert business to lesser motherfuckers - if you can find any.

Alan Wengren (HangDog)... Now would be a good time to post about some of YOUR Lockout "training" experiences.

And, people of varying ages, don't forget to check out:

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14903
New Lookout Release--preliminary test
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=22540
LMFP release dysfunction
http://www.kitestrings.org/topic19.html
LMFP Release Dysfunction

Motherfucker will just as soon kill glider people as look at them.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=42748
Not happy at Lookout

win Dfried - 2015/06/12 09:59:15 UTC

Dear Pastor Marc,

Just to inform You, Mr. Billo is Australian and I am really sure he has done quite enough for his country by paying taxes.

Now if he could just kill his stupid ass flying his tug the way Mark Knight did.

This forum gets input from all around the globe...

With the obvious exception of the pockets in which intelligent life is trying to cling to survival.

also from the eastern side of the atlantic ocean.
Also there are very various professionals represented here.

Yeah, Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney for example. Pity we haven't heard him telling us all how tired as hell he gets "refuting" all these mouth release and "strong link" arguments year after year - and just when we need him most as the "strong link" has become the new accepted standard and peddler Aleksey is becoming religious in his belief so he can find justification any way he can to "prove" his stuff - and people are listening to him.

From my (german and medical) point of view, Mr. Matt Taber has undergone a very wize decision, to keep You away from flying solo.

VERY wise. Fuck, Mr. Matt Taber was on the verge of selling him a glider with a fifteen hundred dollar heavy wheels package. Can you IMAGINE what might have happened if that deal had gone through?

Hey Wind Fried... From your (German and medical) point of view, what are your thoughts about your DHV's very wise weak link regulations?

Please book Your hanggliding experience from flying in Tandem...

Yeah, tandem is really where this sport is at.

...with several engaged people in a lovely landscape, as a really great experience of Your lifetime...

Fort Langley, Queenstown, Cushing Field, Mount Woodside, Jean Lake come to mind. Experiences people have vividly remembered for the rest of their lives. And from Lockout itself let's not forget Bo Hagewood / Michael Elliot and:

http://i.imgur.com/tt379.jpg

...and don't poison this great achievement with bitterness, by being enraged over the few bucks You had invested.

Aw, go ahead and poison it with bitterness now. Much less hassle than waiting until you got all the way up to a handful of hours shy of your Five - the way I did.

Other hobbies and adventures are much more expensive.

Yeah? What's the price of an eleven year old kid and his Hang Five skydiving instructor in today's market?

But with Your cumulated medical issues (a 100% Disabled Veteran, Nitro Glycerene Tabs, Isosorbide Nitrate, Venlefaxine, for Bi-Polar ...),I also would have strongly recommended against letting You fly solo.

- Even when Matt didn't - until he'd finished soaking him for fourteen hundred dollars of tandem lessons.

- How 'bout driving a car? Sounds like he's getting around the continent on his own pretty good. And he was a military fixed wing pilot. But he needs Matt and you making his decisions for him?

Sorry, but hanggliding is not for everyone.

Who gets to make the calls? Mike Dead-Eye Robertson, Bo Hagewood, Bill Bennett, Steve Parson, Marc Fink, Arlan Birkett, Steve Exceptionally-Knowledgeable Wendt, Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney, Christopher LeFay, Jon Orders, Zack Marzec, Kelly Harrison? Reverend Marc would have a tough time doing much worse than some of these guys.

And it is an extreme sport with really high charges on the cardial, respiratory and psychial systems.

- It's aviation. You can make it as extreme or un as you feel like.
- What the fuck does "psychial" mean?

Another fatality under the headline "medical problem in air" is not what our sport can easily take up.

Bullshit. The only things this sport loves more than "medical problems in air" as explanations for fatalities are invisible dust devils.

Nor can the most well known flight park in the US.

Yeah?

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=20756
How is Zach Etheridge doing?

Bob Flynn - 2011/02/04 11:26:34 UTC

Lookout keeps this kind of stuff under their hat. You never hear of accidents there. But every time I go there, I hear about quite a few. Blown launches, tree landings, etc.

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/local/story/2009/jan/05/hang-glider-86-dies-dade/202463/
Hang glider, 86, dies in Dade | Local News | Times Free Press

Staff Report - 2009/01/05

An 86-year-old veteran hang glider from Battle Creek, Mich., was killed Sunday afternoon in Dade County, according to Sgt. Matt Cole of the Dade County Sheriff's Office.
Jonas Blanton was attempting a landing in a field at 1836 Creek Road about 4 p.m. when he hit a tree and was killed instantly, Mr. Cole said.
The flight was reportedly part of Mr. Blanton's annual hang-gliding trip to Tennessee, and he had completed a tandem flight earlier in the day, Mr. Cole said.

Jonas Blanton was attempting a landing in "A FIELD" at "1836 CREEK ROAD" about 4 p.m. when he hit a tree and was killed instantly, Mr. Cole said. Mr. Cole DIDN'T say that Jonas Blanton was killed instantly...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=9988
OZ reports HG Pilot dies

Matt Pericles - 2009/01/05 15:46:45 UTC

It seems odd that if he was trying to land at the LZ that a Dade County deputy would describe it that way, as the flight park is very well known there.

... slamming into the Lockout Mountain Flight Park LZ. No mention of Lockout whatsoever. Probably just launched from Henson or someplace and happened to drift down there.

With all respect, and friendly regards, winDfried

Fuck off, Windy.

Sebby - 2015/06/12 12:23:41 UTC

What this Matt Taber went and did to me as a Pastor and a 100% Disabled Veteran, is unconscionable.

He probably saved your life by not clearing you.

Yeah, that was his motivation. Proclaims his bent pin piece o' shit the most amazing aerotow release in the history of hang gliding, knowing that it's defective sells it all over the planet, tells people not to use it with a weak link greater than half the middle of the safety/legal range, issues no advisory - let alone recall - when it starts failing left and right, pretends he's not receiving email from pissed off victims. EXTREMELY conscientious wherever people's lives and safety are involved.

Id thank him.

Id learn to write at a third grade proficiency level before Id start advising other people what to and not to do. But let's also remember to thank Matt for fighting Marc tooth and nail over the issue of a refund for the lessons he'd paid for but wasn't permitted to take. Really noble effort to help keep him from being able to afford lessons at a less safety minded school.

You could barely get into my golf cart and told me about all your issues and drugs you have to take.

But nevertheless you didn't strongly advise him...

IM sorry for your medical issues as well as your other disabilities but you should not be flying anything. You were out of breath just walking to my cart from the tandem spot 50 ft away when I gave you a ride back to your cabin.

...to hang it up until you'd sucked the fourteen hundred bucks out of him.

You said yourself you only wanted to fly with one instructor because the rest were constantly telling you that your doing things wrong.

Which instructor? Everybody else was constantly telling him he was doing things wrong but this one instructor had a totally different take on his abilities and was ready to sign him off for solo?

You said yourself with all your conditions it takes a while to process before its clear.

Took Zack Marzec four years of flying, getting his Four, working as a Kitty Hawk tandem aerotow instructor to start - and finish - understanding the arguments that Donnell Hewett had heard 33 years prior that that "Weak links always break at the worst possible time, when the glider is climbing hard in a near stall situation." ," and that "More people have been injured because of a weak link than saved by one." And Reverend Marc still has a lot more lifetime for his lessons to sink in than Zack did.

This isnt a sport where you can take a while to process...

He didn't tell you that after he processed stuff to the point at which it became clear it then became unclear.

... especially when sharing the air with others as you will then be putting them at risk.

Yeah, Gawd only knows how many others him might have smacked into during a solo sled or two.

Hope you find something that you can do...
Hope you can find something that you can do that doesn't involve hang gliding or anything that involves grade school English proficiency or some level of integrity.

...and best wishes for a full recovery.
Sebastian

Yeah, any day now he might have a full recovery from Agent Orange and all the shit that happened to him in Vietnam near half a century ago. And then you're gonna invite him back to finish up on his lessons and get his ratings.

This is total fuckin' bullshit. If Matt's motivations were this noble and ethics were so beyond reproach then how come the motherfucker can't be bothered to come here himself and set the record straight for all us muppets?