instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=33429
Short Pilot Question

Dennis Wood - 2015/09/19 20:49:33 UTC

i understand that it is difficult for an advanced pilot to humble themselves by doing so, but the ONLY way to learn such techniques is to have them shown to you IN PERSON, preferably by an instructor working in the area where a particular skill set is needed. and, as usual, internet advise on how to HG is useless.

Yep Janica...

Anything that's told to you by any u$hPa certified instructor, standing or lying down in a tandem harness right next to you, is fuckin' GOLDEN. You can take it to the bank, trust your life to it. When Tom Galvin tells you not to do a hook-in check when you're standing on the ramp 'cause it gives you a false sense of security make damn sure you don't do that hook-in check 'cause the absolute last thing you want when you're running off a ramp is a false sense of security.

And anything that appears on a forum is, by definition, one hundred percent useless - unless, of course, you do the precise opposite of whatever the advice is. Then it could be really valuable.

Come to think of it... peanuts' advice that internet advise on how to hang glide is useless might be a good example since it itself is internet advise. Try doing the precise opposite of what he's saying. You couldn't end up any worse than:



or

http://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5788/23461251751_e98b9c7500_o.png

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=33429
Short Pilot Question

Janica Lee - 2015/09/19 23:44:10 UTC

Your advice acknowledged + appreciated, peanuts.

- Yeah, I always make sure that total fucking assholes "advise" gets acknowledged.
- Appreciated by whom and for what? Anybody who appreciates his advice can and should go fuck him or her self.

While the .org is a valuable resource...

...whenever someone needs to get jerked off...

...it is not my only one.

No! REALLY?

I am seeking the input of fellow pilots of short stature since my advanced instructor is neither short nor dealing with narrow female shoulders.

And is thus totally incapable of understanding the issues and recommending solutions to the problems. So how are you coming getting responses from fellow pilots of short stature dealing with narrow female shoulders?

Timothy Ward - 2015/09/20 00:38:02 UTC

What do you see the problem as being?

Being of short stature and having an advanced instructor who is neither short nor dealing with narrow female shoulders.

What goes wrong with controlling pitch?

She can't control it.

Jack Barth - 2015/09/20 02:24:39 UTC

First are you using any kind of wheels?

Of course. Wheels are for girls and she just told you she's a girl.

I would.

- Faggot.
- Why? Just how many decades do you need the perfect your flare timing?

Second and I do this alot don't do jack rabbit starts. I do and inevitably the nose pops up after second or third stride. Not good in light wind.

Have you considered using a standard aerotow weak link to increase the safety of the footlaunch operation? Whenever our nose pops up on aerotow our weak link blows and crashes us to a safe stop at the end of a harmless inconvenience stall.

Start with an even stride progressively getting quicker and stronger. Keep the nose down until you run out of running room or it takes off. Do your best not to flop onto the basetube to early. I use a reverse grip technique and during the transition i tend to let the nose come up not good. in light winds. Be aware of the incline whether it's steep or gradual. The gradual launches can prove a lot more difficult and require a lot more run and perfect technique. When flying different sites you have to be careful you don't make any of the errors you got away with on the more forgiving slopes.

There's been days I sat it out after analyzing slope and light wind. at my age I knew conditions could bite me. Watch other pilots closely especially those that make it look easy. Also some wings balance tail heavy which makes launch in light winds more difficult. Some times changing the CG helps, but not usually.

And make sure you never dolly or platform launch tow. Towing is much more complex than just running off your mountain perch like a bird and therefore twenty times more dangerous.

2015/09/20 02:40:03 UTC - 3 thumbs up - Glenn Zapien

Get fucked, Glenn.

Ken Howells - 2015/09/20 06:23:55 UTC
San Bernardino

Presuming leverage to control pitch is the problem, perhaps pads on the inside faces of the downtubes or on the sides of your shoulders (or both) would allow the control frame to be (a little) higher relative to your hands - you'd be gripping lower and thus have more leverage...

Perhaps. Or perhaps it would just introduce a lot of slop into the system and shoot what control she currently has to hell. Janica's not the only or first person to be dealing with these issues. If you can't point to anybody else having used this proposed solution there's probably a reason.

...once your hang strap gets tight.

Once you're near or at the end of your run. If you let or make it go tight before or early into your run your wing will rise into the turbulent jet stream and you'll get a false sense of security.

If it's ground-clearance for the basetube then I suggest platform shoes.

And a longer harness to accommodate them.

If it's both, definitely go with the pads on your shoulders and the platform shoes and may I suggest zebra-striped leggings.

Pix or it didn't happen

Or the fucking glider manufacturers could provide gliders to safely fit the people to whom they're selling them.

The Falcon 4 / Sport 2 / T2C has been designed for foot launched soaring flight.

No it hasn't - not for Janica and plenty of other people with similar builds anyway. And foot launching is inherently dangerous 'cause you're no fucking way in anything close to certified flying configuration until you're off the ground and have cleared Christopher's Five Second Rule.

Gil Dodgen - 1995/01

All of this reminds me of a comment Mike Meier made when he was learning to fly sailplanes. He mentioned how easy it was to land a sailplane (with spoilers for glide-path control and wheels), and then said, "If other aircraft were as difficult to land as hang gliders no one would fly them."

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27086
Steve Pearson on landings

Steve Pearson - 2012/03/28 23:26:05 UTC

I can't control the glider in strong air with my hands at shoulder or ear height and I'd rather land on my belly with my hands on the basetube than get turned downwind.

Hasn't been designed to be landed either. It's total fucking crap shoot whether you can get these things safely stopped in real world conditions and none of your gliders ships with safe landing gear. And none of your harnesses are built to take belly or wheel landings without sustaining damage.

It has not been designed to be motorized, tethered, or towed.

But you know bloody goddam well that the vast majority of gliders you sell WILL be towed. And you refuse to:
- build in, provide, or even recommend safe towing equipment
- tell us what the fuck you mean when you tell us to use an appropriate weak link with a finished length of 1.5 inches or less

And you couple towing with "tethering" to make it sound like towing is just another fringe activity.

Mike Meier - 2005/09/14 16:23:46

Hi Tad,

I generally try to avoid getting involved in internet forum based arguments and list discussions - in my experience they tend to be not productive of much that is positive.

You don't GENERALLY TRY to AVOID getting involved in internet forum based arguments and list discussions. You never have and never will touch any of them with a ten foot pole. Right now Janica's having potentially deadly problems with one of your gliders that doesn't exist in your owner's manual and hasn't been addressed by her u$hPa certified Advanced Instructor...

You should never attempt to fly a hang glider without having received competent instruction.

Janica Lee - 92449 - H3 - 2013/12/23 - Brian Horgan - FL AWCL CL FSL HA TUR

...who's a certified clueless mega asshole, and is attempting to get it solved in Jack's Living Room by Jack's Mutual Masturbation Society in which the most competent people in the sport have been declared poison to it and banned.

And where the fuck are you?

Why Can't We Get A Handle On This Safety Thing?
Mike Meier - 1998/09

"WE" can't get a handle on this safety thing 'cause of "YOU". You put out a dangerous defective product that you could easily fix but won't and sell it through a network of thugs and won't lift a fucking finger whenever "WE" need your help doing your job for you.

I generally try to avoid getting involved in internet forum based arguments and list discussions - in my experience they tend to be not productive of much that is positive.

- WHAT "experience"? Any experience you have with forums has been as lurker. Which means that you're standing aside and saying NOTHING about the stomp test you have in all your owners manuals after some asshole does his load test just AFTER launch. Guess he deserved to die 'cause he wasn't on a Wills Wing glider?

- Oh. So IN YOUR EXPERIENCE they TEND to be not productive of MUCH that is positive. Which means that IN YOUR EXPERIENCE they ARE productive of SOME that is positive. Just not enough for you to bother to participate - 'specially considering all the other safety thing advancements you're constantly accomplishing in OTHER venues - the magazine, videos, radio talk shows, faxes, telegrams, town criers, smoke signals, cave paintings...

- Any chance you could point us to one or two of the internet forum based arguments and/or list discussions which, in your experience, tend to be productive of much that is positive? Or have you bothered to incorporate any of this material in your manuals and advisories or post it on your website? Just kidding.

- How 'bout just condemning a bit of the outrageous bullshit that gets spewed by motherfuckers like Dennis Excellent-Book Pagen, Dr. Trisa Tilletti, Davis Dead-On Straub, Ryan Instant-Hands-Free-Release Voight, Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney, Tom Galvin? Not really into that either?

You obviously have no interest whatsoever in helping to get a handle on this safety thing. How 'bout having at least the honesty and decency to say so, withdraw your totally useless article, and get the hell out of the way of the people who do?

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/north/lehi/hang-glider-in-serious-condition-after-accident-at-point-of/article_cb47b560-94b9-56c2-85bf-b69312036be4.html
Hang glider in serious condition after accident at Point of the Mountain

Kurt Hanson - 2015/09/24 12:55
Daily Herald

A man is in serious condition at Intermountain Healthcare Center in Murray after falling about seventy feet while hang gliding.

So we know it wasn't an unhooked launch. Those people tend to fall about seventy feet while not hang gliding.

According to Battalion Chief Rick Howard with the Lehi Fire Department, dispatch received a call about the accident at about 11:20 a.m.

Two days ago and nobody from the local hang gliding "community" has whispered a single public word about it.

Howard said the man took off from the Flight Park at the Point of the Mountain, and for some reason lost lift while hang gliding.

I'll bet the wind stopped.

The man made impact with the ground on his right side, primarily injuring his lower extremities.

Once the man was taken down from the park, he was transported via LifeFlight to IMC in Murray in serious but stable condition.

In hang glider aerotowing this result is known as an "inconvenience".

Howard said he heard from one of the crewmen on scene the man was from Hawaii, though he cannot confirm it.

Hey one of the crewman on the scene... Any chance you could confirm anything for US?

While there have been several accidents at the park recently...

No.

...Howard said there are no unusual safety concerns at the Flight Park.

Course not. Hell, there were no unusual safety concerns anywhere before or after the 2015/03/27 Jean Lake crash. An unusual safety concern in hang gliding would be ANY safety concern about ANYTHING that would result in anything actually being done to address a relevant issue.

"It just happens. With wind, anytime you get a shift in wind, stuff happens," he said.

Yeah, ya gotta watch out for those wind shifts. But as long as it's doing SOMETHING you've got a chance.

"The experts up here are top-notch."

Yeah, damn near all our experts in this sport are top-notch. We know 'cause they're always telling us they are.

Howard said typically the fire department responds to about one accident each month at the park.

Good thing the experts up there are top-notch. If they were just mediocre experts the fire department would be typically responding to about one accident a week at the park.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=33446
accident at the point?

NMERider - 2015/09/25 02:50:35 UTC

Visiting pilot from HI got too slow and turned downwind.

Well, that would be some reason he lost lift while hang gliding.

Flared high and hit hard.

Yep, get upright so's your legs are down and you minimize injury. Don't use that limited and critical time and altitude to get the glider flying and under as much control as possible before the ground finishes coming up.

This is my recollection from an eye witness post on FB. No other details.

C'mon Dave, tell all the young pilots out there how to use their gliders as crush zones to be able to walk away from these.

Not a fatal but a very expensive major life alterer and almost certainly a career ender. Thibault plus two days.

OK, any more thoughts on why there isn't any growth in hang gliding / how we can best attract new participants? Anything from the Point Of The Mountain top-notch experts, current and former? Maybe another couple of expulsion hearings?

P.S. Did this guy go for the high hard flare 'cause there was nothing on his basetube which stood a snowball's chance in hell of rolling or skidding?

This just in:

Allen Sparks - 2015/09/25 12:45:07 UTC

More info (3rd-hand) ...

Great way to get our info, ain't it Allen? Wonder what it would be like to be in a flavor of aviation in which ass covering wasn't always the highest priority.

The pilot is inexperienced...

Not anymore.

...(H2).

Oh, a young pilot. So what does he have left to do before he gets his Three?

The pilot is an experienced kite boarder from HI.

A young pilot but an old kite boarder.

Injuries included a broken femur. Ouch

Yeah, that could contribute something towards putting him in serious but stable condition.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=33480
Fatality Australia

Dave Pendzick - 2015/10/04 16:48:57 UTC

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-03/man-dies-in-hang-gliding-accident-in-wilyabrup-wa/6824782
Man dies in Wilyabrup hang-gliding accident in WA's South West - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Another one...

Walt Conklin - 2015/10/05 14:48:27 UTC

Bummer! Maybe the Oz crew can provide more info.

Yeah, the good ol' Oz boys. Maybe after they get caught up from reporting on Steven Tinoson and Trevor Scott they'll be able to get something to us.

Mike Bali - 2015/10/05 15:45:52 UTC
Western Australia

The pilot was a workmate who had less than 10hrs.

Oh. So it WAS a hang glider. I was holding off 'cause most reported hang glider crashes are paraglider crashes.

He kept going flying on his own despite being given phone numbers of experienced pilots to contact in his local area. He never took my advice and pleas to not fly alone and use the contacts I had given him. His last flight was at a place that has no mobile reception and few people around, and was alone again.

Which may or may not have made any difference. Everybody who flies hang gliders is pretty much alone - save for a few under radio control or within shouting range - within a second or so of starting to move forward and stays that way until the landing or crash.

We are waiting for the reports to be concluded.

I'm still waiting for the reports on the two crashes I just mentioned. And both of those were witnessed by other glider people.

As there were no witnesses, we may never know what happened.

We already know. A newish Hang Two sorta guy crashed on the beach between a couple rocks and didn't survive.

If it sounds like I'm bagging the pilot, I'm not. I'm just really angry that it cost him his life.
If there are any new pilots out there, DON'T EVER underestimate the knowledge of experienced pilots.

Yeah, your best bet is to stick with a mega qualified guy like Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney, Jon Orders, Kelly Harrison.

Make sure you don't ever OVERestimate the knowledge of experienced pilots. That failing proved to be the cause of some major problems in my career.

Please fly safe.

And never do a hook-in check 'cause that gives you a false sense of security. And besides, the Aussie Method renders it a total waste of time and effort.

Luke - 2015/10/05 16:24:36 UTC
Bunbury, Western Australia

This is very sad, the person...

Who strangely had no name. So all his buddies had to refer to him just as "the person". We think he was probably a male person but aren't entirely sure - so better play it on the safe side.

...lived just up the road from me and I had tried to contact him, was looking forward to meeting and sharing a flight with another novice in the area with our senior pilots. It was a very upsetting thought that someone passed like this all alone on an empty beach.

But he died doing what he loved, engaged in a sport that has risk and that is part of the attraction.

NMERider - 2015/10/05 18:46:05 UTC

Mike & Luke,

Thank you for the reports and information.

We're not really worried about the person's name or who signed him off.

Sad news indeed.

Told ya we still had a good chunk of 2015 to crank the statistics up. And the Southern Hemisphere guys are just getting started with their season.

I feel bad for the passerby who stopped to assist then had to drive a good distance just to get mobile service. I can't imagine living in such a huge yet sparsely populated and developed land. If nothing else I hope this tragedy serves as motivation for others to use the buddy system whenever they fly regardless of experience level.

You don't - I'd guess a good percentage of the time. When we're flying XC - even with radio contact - we can go down in circumstances in which help that could save our lives won't be available in time.

I hear what's being said about the late pilot and the need for lessons, instruction, mentorship, etc.

How much data do we have to support the notion that what we have available in those departments is of much positive value? Name a single certified instructor from anywhere on the planet who teaches hook-in checks, for example. I can name you a shitload who attack people attempting to promote the practice - including 2009 u$hPa Hang Gliding Instructor of the Year winner Thomas Galvin.

Bill Priday. Time machine. Choices:

Steve Exceptionally-Knowledgeable Wendt
- 2004 Hang Gliding Instructor of the Year
- 2007 NAA Safety Award
- Hell, he's the one that signed off Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney's instructor rating.

A Falcon with its owner's manual and a copy of Tad's Gun Is Always Loaded article and zero contact with u$hPa products.

He most assuredly doesn't end up any WORSE off with B than A.

It's not always an easy task to persuade someone in need of help to get it.

- Pretty much impossible when dealing with some know-it-all total dickhead like Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney.

- Tell me why a person who's been signed off to fly a particular site should ever be in need of help. What's the Pilot Proficiency System supposed to be doing? I don't sign the motherfucker's card until he's made me fully confident in his abilities to handle the situations for which I'm qualifying him. He always seems to be pretty persuadable under those conditions. And do we see much of this sorta problem in REAL aviation?

Persuasion, encouragement, motivation and peer influence require tact and skill and every pilot responds differently.

But they can always go to The Jack Show and find an opinion to match whatever they prefer to believe.

This is always an ongoing issue everywhere I fly.

So what's that tell you about the job u$hPa's doing?

Regards,
Jonathan

So why do you think the name of "the person" - age 43 from Capel - who died four days ago is being so conspicuously withheld? Family hasn't been notified yet? Make it too easy to identify his instructor?

Three months minus less than six days left to go. Keep those statistics coming in. Let's make 2015 the year to beat for a helluva long time.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=33495
Darren Rickertt R.I.P.

NMERider 2015/10/10 04:02:16 UTC

More sadness article link

2015/10/09 16:00 - Darren Rickertt - 40 - Mudgeeraba - Canungra Classic - Nindooinbah

Mike Bomstad - 2015/10/10 15:27:58 UTC

Shit.
Very sad news.
What a terrible year

2015/10/02 15:45 - Michael John (Mick) Bayliss - 43 - Capel - Wilyabrup

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=14312
Tow Park accidents

Jack Axaopoulos - 2009/11/12 14:49:58 UTC

One of the stated goals of this site is to promote HG. MOST views on this site are NOT from members but from visitors, they have no ignore button.

Having Tad run around every day giving the impression that there is a massive weekly slaughter of pilots at tow parks due to their horribly dangerous devices surely doesnt promote HG. Especially when the safety records are quite excellent.

Like Jim said, theyve gone a decade with no fatalities at their tow park. Pretty damn good I say.

Yet listening to Tad, you would think guys were dying all over the place
He's been nothing but misleading and negative and ignored multiple warnings from me. So He's GONE

---
P.S. 2015/10/10 19:25:00 UTC

Thanks bigtime for capitalizing my pronoun there, Jack. Hadn't noticed that before. (Tends to get lost in all the semiliterate scrawlings.)

[Steve Davy]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?p=377137#377137
Climate change and HG accidents?

Mark Forbes - 2015/10/15 05:22:44 UTC

I've been watching with great concern as reports have come in over the past couple of years, and there's no single reason why pilots are having accidents. Equipment errors, turbulence, poor piloting skills, bad decisions, inattention, failure to adhere to operating limits....a lot of different causes, but none I can attribute clearly to changes in the weather.

Yes, we'll be discussing this at length at the BOD. We're converging in Austin and start committee meetings tomorrow morning. (oops...it's already tomorrow....so later this morning! Time to get some sleep.)

What? The focused pilot campaign didn't work out so good? Try a "More focused pilot" campaign with even brighter colored wristbands and see how that goes.

Sleep tight, Shithead.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=33500
Climate change and HG accidents?

sbrian2 - 2015/10/12 02:07:34 UTC
Bay Area

Of course this topic will deteriorate into a pissing match within a few replies, because it mentions global warming. But until then:

I wonder if this year's hang gliding fatalities might be related, very loosely, to climate change. A little more energy in the atmosphere, plus the usual risks of hang gliding, translates into a few more tumbles, say. Perhaps the typical rowdy spots on the ridge can turn just a little but rowdier? Or, perhaps site-specific, expected weather conditions are shifting a bit, taking pilots a little by surprise, a little more frequently. Of course we've always known that our home sites and anywhere else we hang glide can change drastically -- that's weather. But as we move out of a historical period of relative climate stability, maybe a little more uncertainty is put into a sport with a lot of uncertainty already.

I wonder if or how other wind and wave sports talk about climate change.
Anecdotal evidence isn't completely useless, just anecdotal...

In any case, be careful out there!

Climate change and HG accidents?

Yeah. Climate change related phenomena which ONLY affects hang gliders. Other flavors of aviation are immune 'cause they're using different flavors of aircraft.

Of course this topic will deteriorate into a pissing match within a few replies, because it mentions global warming.

- Try mentioning...

Dr. Trisa Tilletti - 2012/06

HIGHER EDUCATION - 2012/06
TIE A (BETTER) WEAK LINK

Dr. Trisa Tilletti 1: Unlike the FAA's relatively clear-cut legal rules, the practical aspects of weak link technology and application are not so clear-cut. For some people, talking about weak links is more like talking about religion, politics, or global warming--they can get very emotional about it and have difficulty discussing it logically, rationally, or with civility.

Dr. Trisa Tilletti 2: So let's try to talk about it rationally, logically, and practically here.

Dr. Trisa Tilletti 1: Let's start with the definition of practical. A good definition of practical [ref 8] is: "of, relating to, governed by, or acquired through practice or action, rather than theory, speculation, or ideals."

...weak links. Actually, you're not gonna see much pissing after dropping that term anymore 'cause the twats running these shows have finally learned to keep their stupid mouths totally shut on the issue.

- Yes, it will. Hang gliding culture is a total douchebag colony and thus sanctuary for the denier idiot lunatic fringe. Ditto for misogynists, queer bashers, hawk shooters.

I wonder if this year's hang gliding fatalities might be related, very loosely, to climate change.

Yeah, just this year's. Global warming hadn't really reached the trigger point until late January when Trevor Scott was taken unawares and slammed into a mountain down under.

A little more energy in the atmosphere, plus the usual risks of hang gliding...

...like being totally under the control of total pigfuckers worldwide...

...translates into a few more tumbles, say.

Yeah, let's say that. So tell me all about the increase in weather related tumble fatalities in 2015. Fuck that. Just tell me all about the weather related tumble reports in 2015. We've got Wolfi Siess. (We don't count a Thibault Demange blowing an aero move in something south of glass air.) Anything else? Can we go back in the records and find some year in which there were no weather related tumbles?

Perhaps the typical rowdy spots on the ridge can turn just a little but rowdier?

I wouldn't know. I'm attracted to hang gliding mostly because I enjoy the risk of getting my face smashed into the ground. And towing, because of all the additional complexity, is a lot more risky than mountain flying so I just fly in the flatlands - constantly praying for the day when I finally get lucky.

Or, perhaps site-specific, expected weather conditions are shifting a bit, taking pilots a little by surprise, a little more frequently.

Bullshit.

Of course we've always known that our home sites and anywhere else we hang glide can change drastically -- that's weather.

Exactly. And we've always known what we can and can't handle and have always made our decisions accordingly. And a lot of those of us who've been totally clueless on those issues have been taken out of the gene pool to no one's great surprise.

But as we move out of a historical period of relative climate stability, maybe a little more uncertainty is put into a sport with a lot of uncertainty already.

Bullshit.

- We are concerned with WEATHER - at the fucking MOMENT. And the range of shit we can get hit with and need to adjust to over the course of an afternoon DWARFS anything that climate change can do over centuries. And thermal blasts can come out of NOWHERE and kick our asses in a heartbeat. Damn near got killed by one myself a bit over three decades ago.

- And if it's blowing thirty and gusting to forty-five on the ramp we don't launch and - for the purpose of the exercise - we don't give a flying fuck whether or not it would've been blowing thirty and gusting to forty-five twenty years ago before global warming effects started really ramping up.

- Tell me about some of the "UNCERTAINTY" in this sport. Preferably some of the "uncertainty" that isn't a result of Industry disinformation campaigns.

I wonder if or how other wind and wave sports talk about climate change.

They don't. If it's either flat or certain instantaneous death they leave their boards in the garage. If it's something in between they strap them to the racks and head to the beach.

Anecdotal evidence isn't completely useless, just anecdotal...

And that's all we've got - now that lawyer-centric hang gliding has totally gutted the "accident" reporting system. So let's learn to be happy with it.

In any case, be careful out there!

This is bullshit.

- Hang gliders seek out the most violent thermal conditions they can get their asses to. There's never been a pilots' meeting at a comp in Australia or at Zapata in which it was announced that the Safety Committee was cancelling the day because the forecasted lapse rate was dangerously high.

- Furthermore... Climate change isn't helping us any - other than turning large areas like California into deserts (i.e., no water to suppress thermal development and cloubbase altitude). It's doing the opposite. We need the nights to be cold and we want the daytime air to stay cool and clear to optimize thermal development and lapse rate. Carbon dioxide traps heat in the atmosphere and holds it overnight as well as during the day. And we've got this major global dimming phenomenon going on. Jet contrails create artificial cirrus clouds which also trap heat in the atmosphere overnight and we all know what overcast does to thermal development in primetime.

- Finally...

Are we hearing people saying, "Wow! That was one really hairy ride I just had! This global warming thing is putting WAY too much energy into the atmosphere. Just can't predict what's gonna happen to ya the way we could in the old days. If this trend continues I'm putting my glider up on eBay and investing in a good checkers set."?

That's what we WOULD be hearing if there were any legitimacy to your question. Global warming isn't gonna be sneaking up on pilots and killing them without warning. And we haven't had one fatal or any other degree of crash this year related to anything in the air that would've been considered outside of normal totally predictable conditions since the beginning of time.

Stop getting bent outta shape about all the fatalities. They're so rare - even this year - that they're statistically meaningless. Start watching all the left and right control failures - regardless of whether or not they have direct unpleasant consequences.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=33500
Climate change and HG accidents?

Mark Forbes - 2015/10/15 05:22:44 UTC

I've been watching with great concern as reports have come in over the past couple of years...

Not enough concern to actually join in any of the postmortem discussions and throw in your two cents worth but still a very great degree of concern.

...and there's no single reason why pilots are having accidents.

Unless you consider u$hPa's control of the sport in general - unflagging support of the tandem thrill ride industry, insistence upon promoting the most dangerous practices imaginable, refusal to implement any fixes, perpetual undermining of reformers, vicious retaliation against whistleblowers...

Equipment errors...

Like using cheap Industry Standard crap instead of towing equipment into which somebody's put some time, thought, and effort.

...turbulence...

Go upright and put your hands on the control tubes for better leverage and to be in a good head-up crash position for when that doesn't work.

...poor piloting skills...

As mandated, taught, and signed off on by shit u$hPa instructors.

...bad decisions...

As mandated, taught, and signed off on by shit u$hPa instructors.

...inattention...

Inattention to WHAT? When was the last time you motherfuckers have published something in the magazine about what we need to be paying attention to?

...failure to adhere to operating limits...

What's a safe operating limit for a bent pin pro toad release or a standard aerotow weak link? Are there any u$hPa SOPs to which you can refer us?

a lot of different causes, but none I can attribute clearly to changes in the weather.

- Which are the ones you can attribute unclearly to changes in the weather?
- The topic isn't about changes in the WEATHER - dickhead. The WEATHER changes every hour of every day and has since the beginning of time.

Yes, we'll be discussing this at length at the BOD.

Whoa! The best minds in the sport all converging at one place to discuss the recent surge in the fatality rate - AT LENGTH! There's no fuckin' way we won't get something really extraordinary out of this massed effort. I'll have a great deal of trouble containing myself while I wait to see what it's gonna be. Dare I hope for yet another reprint of Mike Meier's "Why Can't We Get A Handle On This Safety Thing?" article?

We're converging in Austin...

Has Austin had sufficient warning?

...and start committee meetings tomorrow morning.

Oh, the EXCITEMENT of all this! For the first time in the history of hang gliding u$hPa committees will to something POSITIVE for the sport!

(oops...it's already tomorrow....so later this morning! Time to get some sleep.)

See if you can think of some way to make that a permanent state of consciousness, motherfucker. That would be one fair step in the right direction.

Oh well, at least you've set yourself up a little. The committees will, as usual, continue along in total ass covering mode and will spew out the usual lipstick laden vacuous disingenuous crap as a pretense for giving an actual rat's ass and doing something of actual substance. And more people will become disaffected and that will accelerate the factionalization trend. And Kite Strings will pick up more recognition as the only legitimate hang gliding resource on the English speaking face of the planet.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=33528
Is there such a thing as being too cautious?

Robert Kesselring - 2015/10/17 14:05:30 UTC

Something I've been contemplating over the last few days.

Have you contemplated checking out sources beyond your terminally inbred little Jack Show mutual masturbation society? Just kidding.

I remember reading in one of these threads the idea that some of the recent fatalities may have been a result of pilots not being as current as they should be.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=33504
Another fatal accident

Dave Hopkins - 2015/10/13 02:28:27 UTC

I heard the pilot had taken a few years off and was getting back into flying.

That's the only thing you've read in which anything like that was mentioned and it's total bullshit.

Earth Magnet - 2015/10/12 22:34:54 UTC

Jesse flying.



He's the only one who got high that day.

He was good enough to kick everyone's asses thermal flying but too noncurrent to be able to keep his glider out of the trees bordering the primary LZ. Right.

I.E. an experienced pilot who may not have flown in five years time gets in trouble because their skills are rusty.

I haven't flown in seven years and five days. I wouldn't have missed the Hyner strip. And ya notice that none of the Hyner ass coverers is talking about ensuring currency or raising the rating requirement up from Two-With-Sponsor. What's being discussed is clearcutting the floodplain.

I suppose the clearest way to explain my thought is with two hypothetical pilots...

Pilot 1 goes flying only in perfectly ideal conditions.

Oh good. Dead air sled runs. Great for perfecting flare timing.

Wind from exactly the right direction, at exactly the right speed and not gusty at all. Never in the middle of the day when thermal activity might create LZ turbulence, only at familiar flying sites, etc.

Oh good. More mind-numbing ridge soaring.

Pilot 2 will accept a wider variety of conditions.

Oh. Somebody who's interested in becoming a pilot.

May launch with somewhat cross or gusty winds, flies at all times of day, may even pioneer a new site now and then.

EVEN pioneer a new site? What are the dangers associated with that? And lemme point out that pretty much all XC flyers are pioneering new LZs every time they go anywhere - and usually living to tell the tale.

Pilot 2 doesn't do anything really stupid...

After skipping the preflight sidewire stomp test and running off the cliff on the assumption that he's connected to his glider.

...he won't launch with a 20 mph tailwind...

But he WILL try to groundhandle his glider to the edge of the cliff unassisted through a 20 mph tailwind generated by the rotor behind launch - totally confident that his friends will speak of him in only the most reverential terms after his body is recovered and his glider wreckage is cleared from the view of the scenic overlook.

...or fly under a thunderstorm...

That he knows about.

...he's just not as conservative as Pilot 1.

Pilot 1 isn't a pilot.

As a result, Pilot 2 flies ten times as much as Pilot 1.

Pilot 1 can make ten times as many flights as Pilot 2 if he wants and is happy with sled runs. And if he's happy with ridge soaring he can even get ten times as much airtime.

Assuming that Pilots 1 and 2 are otherwise similar, Pilot 2 will have sharper flying skills then...

Than.

...Pilot 1. Who is really the safer pilot?

We're only talking - at best - one pilot here. And Pilot 1 doesn't exist anyway. And the issue of SKILLS is pretty fuckin' minor in any discussion of safety. Show me a disaster that needed better than Two level basics to avert.

Obviously this line of thought can be taken to extremes.

It already has been.

If Pilot 1 is so picky that he only flies once ever five years, he probably won't be very safe when he does.

Good. We're infested with an unsustainable percentage of total morons as things are. And speaking of Pilot 1... How 'bout a Marc Fink who refuses to fly with any fishing line more dangerous than 130 pound Greenspot? Willing to die in any lockout up to 249 feet - but most assuredly nothing above that.

If Pilot 2 flies in really stupid weather he won't be safe either.

Name a fatality resulting from somebody flying in really stupid weather. Tim Martin got killed on 2011/06/06 flying in really stupid weather but NOBODY saw it coming and he was just the one who didn't luck out.

Somewhere between these two extremes must be a sweet spot, where you fly in less then...

Than.

...perfect, but not dangerous conditions. That sweet spot will likely be different from person to person.

The whole idea of inland hang gliding is to fly in dangerous - potentially deadly - conditions. We seek out the days when nuclear thermals and dust devils can explode out of nowhere. But it doesn't take much beyond common sense and Two level skills and judgment to deal with things. And there are no incidents which can be used to argue otherwise.

How do you find that sweet spot?

See above about common sense and Two level skills and judgment.

How do you decide what level of cautiousness results in the highest level of safety?

Tell me what you're doing in the way of:
- preflight sidewire stomp tests
- hook-in checks
- wire crew in conditions in which you probably don't need assistance
- tow bridles, releases, weak links, drivers
- aerobatics
- low level scratching
- landing:
-- approaches
-- touchdowns
- questioning the validity of information you're getting from a culture that so happily accepts:
-- dictatorial monopolistic control by the tandem thrill ride industry and its non pilot corporate lawyer
-- a safety program totally gutted to free up the resources needed to:
--- suppress all rational discussions of major disasters
--- persecute all the reformers and whistleblowers who dare rear their ugly heads
--- distribute little red rubber FOCUSED PILOT wristbands

These are the issues that are ACTUALLY crashing, injuring, crippling, killing people.

Wanna avoid doing a Jesse Fulkersin? Practice ALL your approaches and landings as if you're coming into a thermally rotory tree-walled postage stamp and have zilch margin to squander. And STOP trying to optimize your landings for stopping in narrow dry riverbeds with large rocks strewn all over the place.