instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=45440
The Future of Free Flight in the U.S. is at Risk!

Michael Grisham - 2015/12/11 23:39:54 UTC

Christopher, first let me apologize for having a conscience.

I find Bob Show Sycophants In Good Standing a bit wanting in the conscience department. Do try to not apologize too excessively.

I do not like killing people, especially little kids.

Why? 'Cause they're cuter?

It does not make a difference if the killing is done with cars, tanks, bombs, assault rifles, or hang gliders. The result is the same.

Christopher LeFay - 2015/12/11 16:52:23 UTC

The statement is simply factually inaccurate. I suggest familiarizing yourself with proposed reforms associated with the new insurance structure - both procedural and in association.

Having already familiarized myself with what you call "proposed reforms" I do not see any fundamental change in the association insurance except the fact that the membership will have to post a two million dollar bond, additionally above and beyond cover the claims out of the member's own pockets. The explanation of who and what gets covered is by and large the same as it was when the association was covered with the underwriters. Independent instructors cannot charge a fee - big change (not). Please feel free to point out any additional differences.

Regarding the true problem of safety and claims, there is only a promise to change.

http://ozreport.com/1449837790
USHPA 3rd party liability insurance

Martin Palmaz - 2015/12/11 09:34:10 UTC

Yes, things have to change. We need to improve some facets of our instructional programs, and there's a lot of work to be done yet. Not all of the details are worked out yet, so it’s difficult to cover it all.

http://www.ushpa.aero/aboutus.asp
USHPA - About the Association

Mission Statement

USHPA's mission is to ensure the future of free flight.

The association will pursue its mission through:

B. Communication. ...the organization will cultivate a culture of communication and transparency.
F. Safety. USHPA will steadily foster a culture of safety.

Don't they have that backwards? Shouldn't they be steadily fostering a culture of communication and transparency and cultivating a culture of safety?

Now from:

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=41697
Two Dead on Hang Glider

Mark G. Forbes - 2015/04/17 01:19:44 UTC

It is not USHPA's responsibility to guarantee the safety of pilots. Neither is it the responsibility of instructors, flight park owners, land managers or other pilots.

To be fair to Mark...

Yeah, it's only fair to be fair to Mark. After all, he's always been so outstandingly fair to everybody else.

...Tommy T calls Mark out on this. Mark's response in this link:

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25321
Stop the Stupids at the USHPA BOD meeting

Mark G. Forbes - 2011/09/29 02:26:23 UTC

Our SOPs are reviewed and amended regularly as we gain more knowledge and learn from experience.

So what have we learned from Jean Lake?

What u$hPa wanted us to.

What SOPs have changed?

Surface towing has gotten more odious and dangerous:

The United States Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association, Inc. - 2015/10/16
Standard Operating Procedure
12. Rating System
10. Towing Administration

04. Tow Equipment Operator (TECH) Certification

A Tow Equipment Operator (TECH) Certification is required in order to tow gliders aloft using a surface tow device. Surface tow involves any activity where the device providing the force for the towed aircraft to gain altitude remains on the ground, whether stationary or moving. The certification is specific to either Hang Gliding or Paragliding. Operators meeting qualifications for towing both types of aircraft may hold dual certifications.

A. TECH Administration

- 1. The TECH certification is issued by a Towing Observer.

- 2. TECH certification is valid for a maximum of three years.

- 3. A TECH may only operate using the ST launch method.

- 4. TECH certification is revocable per SOP 12-07.

B. General Information

- 1. The TECH, as the operator of the tow system, is responsible for operating the system in the interest of the safety of the pilot.

- 2. When providing instruction or tandem flights, the TECH is required to operate the system in a manner such that operator(s) can observe the entire flight, regulate tow tension, drop tow tension, and sever the line if necessary. Whenever these actions are not possible to execute by the TECH, another individual will assist with these duties.

C. Qualifications

- 1. TECH candidate must operate under supervision, and demonstrate safe and proper operation of tow equipment.

- 2. A TECH candidate must demonstrate a minimum of ten tows under supervision of a Tow Observer of the glider type for which the candidate seeks certification.

- 3. A TECH candidate must have a Novice Rating (H-2 or P-2) for the type of craft they are seeking certification to tow,

- 4. A TECH candidate must demonstrate a minimum of five flights as pilot under tow in the aircraft type and the towing system for which the certification is sought.

- 5. A TECH candidate must give a complete discussion of the tow equipment, normal and emergency procedures, maximum allowable deviations, maximum allowable line pressure, and signals between operator and pilot, in accordance with USHPA towing guidelines, and must pass the TECH written exam.

D. Operations

- 1. Surface tow operations must be conducted in observance of all FAA regulations, in airspace wherein such an activity is permitted. Operators must comply with all applicable local ordinances.

- 2. Instructors of Surface-to-Air towing must possess a USHPA Instructor Certification and a TECH appointment.

- 3. Instructors and Tandem pilots must verify that the tow equipment and its operators meet USHPA requirements and standards, and when applicable, FAA requirements. Failure to comply with this requirement is cause for revocation of the towing appointment and/or tandem and/or instructor certification.

The Answer is None.

See above.

So once upon a time, somewhere around five...

Eight plus.

...years ago Billy...

Bille.

...is truck towing...

Truck towing implies platform launching - which is the SANE way to utilize a truck for towing. Bille is foot launching behind a truck.

...at Jean Lake, NV.

58-10920
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7647/16991513905_13df5de010_o.png

23-03400
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8755/16371420963_2fb0bb7c9b_o.png

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7597/16975005972_c450d2cdda_o.png

There is just the Driver and Billy.

Bullshit.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=4046
Accident Report

Bille Floyd - 2010/05/26 03:27:41 UTC

Two people and my mom were present.
The driver (not radwhacker),and a new para glider pilot were hooking up my over and under bridle while i hooked into the glider for a foot launched tow.

Bille plus driver plus new paraglider person plus Bille's mom.

Billy hooks into the tow line but does not hook into the glider.

Bullshit.

The wind died for a long time so i unhooked and set the keel on the ground,then sat on the control bar and Waited maybe 5-8min for another cycle.

He hooks in then unhooks - which is why hang checks do nothing but increase the crap outta the frequency of unhooked launches.

The tow commences...

Without idiot Bille doing or anyone else looking for...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25550
Failure to hook in.

Bille Floyd - 2011/10/27 16:59:26 UTC

The Wind came back up and i picked up the glider & made a mental pre-launch check. Remembering that i had already hooked in previously --
i deleted the, "lift the glider" part to check for tension on the harness.
and signaled for the driver to GO !!

...the hook-in check which had been mandatory under u$hPa SOPs for all flights for all ratings for the previous twenty-seven and a half years.

...and Billy hangs on for dear life...

Dear to him anyway.

...to the down tubes.

Bullshit.

So holding onto the base-tube i went for my chute...

The driver, unaware Billy is not hooked into the glider...

...assuming that he WAS hooked into the glider, as he was when he hit the gas without requiring and looking for the hook-in check idiot fucking BilleFly couldn't be bothered to do...

...continues the tow. Billy cannot hold on any longer for dear life...

Bullshit.

You'll notice that i haven't mentioned the tow pressure was released ??? It wasn't and since i just let go with my right hand to grab the chute ,the glider now started into a hard left,and that's when i pulled the tow line relies,and bailed out the back at 30-40ft. In a lock-out i was for sure DEAD.

He was holding on so well that he could even stay with the glider while making the easy reaches to his Koch two stage and parachute.

...and comes crashing to earth feet first shattering all the bones below his knees.

And...

Doug Koch - 2007/10/20 15:42:57 UTC

The impact broke both legs at the ankles and drove his shin bones out the bottom of his feet 6 inches

...driving his shin bones out the bottom of his feet six inches.

Now, if there would have been a dedicated observer winch operator in the back of the truck, within a few seconds after the tow commenced, with one word the observer would have told the driver to "Stop".

- Bullshit.

The last thing i said to the para glider pilot,standing behind me,was radio the driver if things go off line.

- Or if the stupid motherfucker had elected to use a release that could be used in an emergency rather than one within easy reach...

Within a few minutes Billy would have properly hooked into both the tow line and the hang glider and been flying again.

Suck my dick, Michael.

At Hearne on 2010/01/17 Martin Apopot...

Martin Apopot - Texas - 87177 - H3 - 2012/07/16 - Sam Kellner - AT FL PL ST CL FSL RLF

...towing off a stationary winch with the operator and a whole bunch of Houston club bozos watching him elects to...

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hhpa/message/8958
Hearne tx

Martin Apopot - 2010/01/18 22:21

before the signal, I should have picked up my glider to feel for the pull in my strap and leg loops.

...skip the fuckin' hook-in check and launch.

got a good aoa and tried leaning back at the first pull but to my surprise the glider is not going up, instead i am kissing the ground. the seond time i hit the ground i decided to push up the glider. should have been aware am not hooked at this time.i went up and been cruising fine till the first cone.

Even HE doesn't know he's not hooked in.

soon as i released as previously instructed, that's when i realized am not hoked in, hanged by the contol bar.

He knows he's not hooked in when he releases - at which point the driver and any observers are totally irrelevant - and dives his glider in à la Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney and gets his neck broken.

There are absolutely no guarantees about safe outcomes of fully observed and abortable unhooked tow launches that go above ground skim level. So shut the fuck up about predicting alternate happily-ever-after outcomes and get with the fuckin' program on using the SOP u$hPa's had on its books since the beginning of time to eliminate them.

Were the USHPA SOPs changed with the loss of Billy's legs requiring a dedicated observer? No.

Was the 1981/05 USHGA SOP mandating a hook in check just prior to launch for all flights for all ratings adhered to? No. So let's add some total bullshit SOPs to compensate. Fuck Bille. He STILL refuses to do hook-in checks when he runs off cliffs with his replacement legs. The guy's a certified mega asshole.

Dennis Pagen and Bill Bryden in the book "Towing Aloft" state the driver cannot drive looking forward and also keep the towed glider in sight.

- Dennis Pagen and Bill Bryden in the excellent book, Towing Aloft, by Dennis Pagen and Bill Bryden state that:

Towing Aloft - 1998/01

A weak link is the focal point of a safe towing system.

...a weak link is the focal point of a safe towing system. Those two douchebags are totally full o' shit.

- Do Dennis Pagen and Bill Bryden in the excellent book, Towing Aloft, by Dennis Pagen and Bill Bryden cite any incident in which a fucking observer would've been of any use in a halfway competently conducted surface tow operation?

So why isn't it a requirement to have a dedicated observer winch operator in the USHPA SOPs?

It IS asshole. See above. And it will have ZERO positive effect on surface towing safety - if that much.

In this year's accident taking the life of Kelly and Arys...

That was NOT an accident.

...where the tow line was entangled in the landing gear;

You mean after he went up behind a driver he met in the parking lot with a total piece o' shit two-string release he rigged in disabled mode and a radio configuration he knew would be one hundred percent useless in any emergency situation?

...the driver was unaware there was a problem...

The driver was unaware of what a hang glider was and which way was up.

...and had thought Kelly had released.

WHY? Why would he think that unless he'd totally misunderstood what the flight plan was supposed to have been? Explain why he...

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8857/18290284792_24ac8847ee_o.png


...abruptly swerved back towards the middle of the lakebed instead of continuing the circuit around the periphery - as we were told was the flight plan.

The driver in a closed cab cannot drive and track the progress of the glider on tow.

Why should he need to? Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney assures us that in an aerotow, which is a hundred times more dangerous than a platform, he can fix whatever's going on back there by giving us the rope - while deaths such as those of Mike Haas, Robin Strid, Roy Messing, Steve Elliot, Zack Marzec indicate that nobody else, including Bobby Fucking-Genius Bailey, can. An aerotow pilot is, for all intents and purposes - on his fucking own. And even with as much total crap as The Industry forces into the system serious incidents involving halfway competent flyers are rare as hens' teeth.

If there had been a dedicated observer winch operator continually monitoring the progress of the glider on tow, he/she would have known the glider had not released and could have cut the tow line.

If there'd been a ten percent competent PILOT at the other end of the towline - even with the clueless driver, prejammed release, dead-for-the-purpose-of-the-exercise radio, the bridle snagged on the fuckin' extended wheel, and the glider commencing its 390 foot plummet...

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8819/18267685796_64156e9c91_o.png


...he/she could've thrown his/her...

157-20626
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http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8649/16488797369_9b8f9f9d89_o.png
164-20729

...fuckin' parachute and instantly turned that double fatal into a nonevent.

Kelly and Arys would be alive today.

Lose/Win.

USHPA's analysis of the accident: to recommend...

Mandate.

...an observer - very weak.

Speaking of weak...

- Why do you think their weak link didn't break...

Towing Aloft - 1998/01

Fortunately, we have good defenses against lockouts. These defenses include limiting the tow forces by using weak links and pressure gauges, proper distribution of the tow forces and proper training of pilots.

...when it was supposed to?

- You have an astronomically lame ass analysis of this astronomically important incident. THE issue is failure to release from tow and you don't even MENTION the FUCKING *RELEASE*. Really good match for u$hPa's fake advisory in response to the Arlan Birkett / Jeremiah Thompson which talks about...

http://www.ushpa.aero/advisory.asp?id=1
USHPA - Safety Advisory #1

USHGA - 2006/03/15

Safety Notice

HG Tandem Aerotow Operations

Should the tandem glider become unattached from the tug during this maneuver, the nose high attitude of the tandem glider attained while doing this will cause a very abrupt stall which will result in a much greater altitude loss than one would expect (possibly more than 750 feet). The most extreme cases may result in structural failure of the glider.

...the extreme danger associated with becoming "unattached from the tug" without ever once mentioning the term "weak link" - which was the "safety device", for the illegal tug in this case, that killed that glider.

3. If a dedicated observer is such a great cure-all for truck towing operations then how come...

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8143/7462005802_bbc0ac66ac_o.jpg


...Terry ain't around no more?

Have the USHPA SOPs changed?

Yes. For the worse - again.

No.

Idiot. And you'll notice that not one Davis Show asshole - Davis included - has yet to call him on this.

Lemme tell ya sumpin', shithead...

Unless you've got some astronomical clusterfuck like the one Kelly so carefully orchestrated towing is only dangerous near the surface - almost always well below two hundred feet. We've got TONS of data showing that only a properly equipped competent pilot can react inside the one or two second critical window available to keep himself healthy and that a front end guy - wincher, driver, tugger - is a spectator at best...

Wills Wing / Blue Sky / Steve Wendt / Ryan Voight Productions - 2007/03

NEVER CUT THE POWER...



Reduce Gradually
Increase Gradually

...as far as releasing is concerned.

Bobby Fucking-Genius Bailey, the best tow pilot in the business, should've made that issue blindingly clear to anyone with half a functional or better brain when he towed Robin Strid, a Norwegian national champion, to his instant death on his junk equipment a bit shy of eleven years ago. Watching him in the mirror, fully aware of and reacting to every movement. Could've squeezed the lever on his joystick at any instant and the glider locked out and slammed in still on tow. And you can read Bobby Fucking-Genius Bailey's comments on the incident in the material quoted below:

Anything else you'd like to discuss on this?

How many people have to die?

I dunno.

http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=5033
Extraordinary Carnage for One Day

Jim Thompson - 2015/12/12 01:42:36 UTC

H4 pilot with three-man wire crew positioned to launch from the saddle. Launch was reportedly perfect. Witnesses then noticed the pilot hanging by hands from the control frame until the pilot released grip and fell around ten feet to the ground. Glider shot straight up 80-100 feet, turned toward the ground, flipped, dove and recovered in time to impact on the control frame and keel, cartwheeled once and came to rest right-side up before damaging any other gliders.

I'm pushing for as many of the really stupid ones as possible - preferably with a minimum of collateral damage.

How many insurance claims are going too paid out...

Not many more. Pretty soon stuff's gonna be paid out of the deep RRG pocket u$hPa's currently creating.

...before you understand it is all about safety?

SAFETY!?

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25321
Stop the Stupids at the USHPA BOD meeting

Mark G. Forbes - 2011/09/29 02:26:23 UTC

We can establish rules which we think will improve pilot safety, but our attorney is right. USHPA is not in the business of keeping pilots "safe" and it can't be. Stepping into that morass is a recipe for extinction of our association.

u$hPa is not and cannot be in the in the business of keeping pilots "safe". Stepping into that morass is a recipe for extinction of our association. Let's see if we've forgotten anything we could do to make hang gliding more dangerous - as, obviously, stepping into THAT morass is a recipe for the continued healthy growth of our association.

I kid you not. That's the logic and that's EXACTLY what these motherfuckers have been doing under the reign of Timothy E. Herr.

Good freakin' luck getting that supertanker turned around before it hits the rocks.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=5033
Extraordinary Carnage for One Day

Jim Thompson - 2015/12/12 01:42:36 UTC

Since no one posted their own...

Monday, November 30th was very gusty at launch, 10 to 25mph. Thirteen pilots showed up. Only nine made it off and eight made it safely to the LZ.

1. From the main launch, H4 pilot cleared the wire crew. While taking a step, the right wing raised pulling the glider and the pilot to the left and finally turning the glider 180 degrees, tail up, into the wind. The glider flipped and the pilot fell onto the sail breaking a downtube. No injury to pilot. Lack of control at launch was possibly due to the pilot's body position in the control frame and turbulent conditions.

2. H4 pilot with three-man wire crew positioned to launch from the saddle. Launch was reportedly perfect. Witnesses then noticed the pilot hanging by hands from the control frame until the pilot released grip and fell around ten feet to the ground. Glider shot straight up 80-100 feet, turned toward the ground, flipped, dove and recovered in time to impact on the control frame and keel, cartwheeled once and came to rest right-side up before damaging any other gliders. Pilot sustained minor injuries (scratches, bruises), possible sprain to hand. Two downtubes, several bent or broken battens and a keel for the glider. One wire crew member remarked that the pilot seemed to be in a rush to launch.

3. H4 pilot launched from saddle. Aloft but with left wing tip dragging, glider turned 180 degrees back into the mountain. Pilot pushed out hard and impacted softly. No injury, no reported damage. Another pilot familiar with the saddle launch remarked that the incident pilot launched in a lull.

4. H4 pilot landing in good conditions (light, straight in breeze in LZ) turns to final. Other pilots present immediately remarked, "He's high." Pilot remained prone and increased speed, diving down to the grass ramp. Glider continued at speed toward overshoot ramp where the pilot dragged feet and then took several steps to the end of the ramp before pulling in hard. Pilot impacted, at speed, on the upslope to the SIBL parking area at the bottom of the road to the wash. Pilot sustained a deep gash to lower leg, cut on hand and probably a very stiff neck from slamming headfirst into the soft dirt. Broken downtube and possible damage to a carbon wing extender that was catapulted into the wash by the force of the impact. Pilot was unfamiliar with all aspects of the LZ (first flight here) and reportedly this was his second flight after one year off.

Oh, yeah, the count isn't quite right.

5. H4 pilot with unknown time off (living out of state) chose to fold-up and drive down due to conditions.

And a merry Christmas to you too, Jim. Thanks bigtime for the gold mine.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=5033
Extraordinary Carnage for One Day

Jim Thompson - 2015/12/12 01:42:36 UTC

Since no one posted their own...

- Since all the crashers are fuckin' worms...

- Nice job butchering the grammar and shielding even the genders of all the fuckups. You only slipped up with:

Other pilots present immediately remarked, "He's high."

Twenty references to crashers as "pilots" - never an unquoted singular masculine pronoun.

Monday, November 30th was very gusty at launch...

What launch? You couldn't bother to specify the launch? (Reference to "the saddle" makes it Kagel.)

...10 to 25mph.

Big gust factor. Top end ain't all that high and nobody should've had any problem getting off in a ten cycle.

Thirteen pilots showed up. Only nine made it off and eight made it safely to the LZ.

Just 'cause they got to the LZ with themselves and gliders unscathed doesn't mean they executed the flights safely.

1. From the main launch, H4 pilot...

All the relevant individuals are H4 "pilots". Why don't you just specify that at the top, make things better readable, spare us the redundancy?

...cleared the wire crew.

Good idea. You sure don't want anybody on a wire when you're ready to launch. You could go off in a turn and ground loop back into the mountain.

While taking a step, the right wing raised pulling the glider and the pilot to the left and finally turning the glider 180 degrees, tail up, into the wind.

Shit! I'll bet one of those assholes didn't clear when told to.

The glider flipped and the pilot fell onto the sail breaking a downtube. No injury to pilot.

To the what?

Lack of control at launch was possibly due to the pilot's body position in the control frame and turbulent conditions.

How turbulent are the conditions during ten cycles?

OK, Rick Masters. Go ahead and tell us how much more dangerous tow launches are because of all the equipment complexity.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=5033
Extraordinary Carnage for One Day

Jim Thompson - 2015/12/12 01:42:36 UTC

2. H4 pilot with three-man...

Three-PERSON. You're not protecting identities as well as you should be.

...wire crew positioned to launch from the saddle. Launch was reportedly perfect.

Discounting, of course, the absent hook-in check that's supposed to be the start of every launch sequence.

Witnesses then noticed the pilot...

The what?

...hanging by hands from the control frame until the pilot released grip and...

...graduated from pilot to low altitude skydiver.

...fell around ten feet to the ground.

Too bad it wasn't at Lookout, Henson, Whitwell, High Rock... One of those sites that produces the kind of aftermath that gets people talking a bit more seriously about this issue.

Glider shot straight up 80-100 feet, turned toward the ground, flipped, dove and recovered in time to impact on the control frame and keel, cartwheeled once and came to rest right-side up before damaging any other gliders.

AGAIN?

http://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5566/14704620965_ce30a874b7_o.png


I'll bet he was in a rush to launch and forgot to do his hang check with Joe Greblo's Four Or Five Cs.

Pilot sustained minor injuries (scratches, bruises), possible sprain to hand.

Damn. And I was so hoping for a kill to get the 2015 US fatal crashes into double digits.

Two downtubes, several bent or broken battens and a keel for the glider. One wire crew member remarked that the pilot seemed to be in a rush to launch.

See? Toldyaso. These things always happen before a wire crew member remarks that the pilot seemed to be in a rush to launch.

I'd like to congratulate the H4 pilot's three-man wire crew for holding the pilot's wing down out of the turbulent jet stream and ensuring a reportedly perfect launch.

http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=3638
FTHI

Jim Thompson - 2015/11/26 00:13:07 UTC

All good habits, Greg. I follow much the same routine as you except, before approaching launch, I grab the front wires, step forward to tug on the strap and look back at my glider for un-zipped zippers or released tensioners.

And one additional habit related to not clipping the carabiner onto the harness: when I get into my harness, it is always away from the glider (meaning not under the sail). I grip the hang strap at the base, follow it up to the 'biner for twists and always approach the glider with the carabiner in my hand so I have to do something with it.

I try to remember hook-in checks at launch, too, but I have to admit, watching for launch conditions makes me forgetful sometimes. All the more important to follow a pattern such as yours before getting near launch.

Suck my dick, Jim.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=5033
Extraordinary Carnage for One Day

3. H4 pilot launched from saddle. Aloft but with left wing tip dragging...

Oh. He's ALOFT but his tip is dragging. I must've had the wrong concept of what aloft means.

...glider turned 180 degrees back into the mountain.

- Do we get to hear whether or not he used a crew?
- Damn. I'll bet the H4 pilot lifted his wing into the turbulent jet stream. What a moron.

Pilot pushed out hard and impacted softly.

Oh good. He didn't hafta use his glider as a crush zone.

No injury, no reported damage.

So I guess he was smart enough to keep his wing out of the turbulent jet stream on is second effort.

Another pilot familiar with the saddle launch remarked that the incident pilot launched in a lull.

- Did anyone remark that incident pilot seemed to be in a rush to launch?
- Yeah, those ten mile per hour lulls will getchya every time.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=5033
Extraordinary Carnage for One Day

4. H4 pilot landing in good conditions (light, straight in breeze in LZ) turns to final.

Where?

Other pilots present immediately remarked, "He's high."

- What did the other pilots NOT present immediately remark?
- Did any of the other pilots present immediately remark that the H4 pilot seemed to be in a rush to land?

Pilot remained prone and increased speed, diving down to the grass ramp.

Should've gone upright and put his hands on the control tubes for better roll control and flare authority and mushed it down to the grass ramp.

Glider continued at speed toward overshoot ramp where the pilot dragged feet and then took several steps to the end of the ramp...

Presumably upright at this point.

...before pulling in hard. Pilot impacted, at speed, on the upslope to the SIBL parking area at the bottom of the road to the wash.

And here I was thinking that all Fours could consistently nail foot landings within 25 feet of the old Frisbee in the middle of the LZ.

Pilot sustained a deep gash to lower leg, cut on hand and probably a very stiff neck from slamming headfirst into the soft dirt.

Well, at least he didn't do any hard turns below two hundred feet...

55-3708
http://c1.staticflickr.com/1/620/22526059899_6c7ef5a7d1_o.png

Broken downtube and possible damage to a carbon wing extender that was catapulted into the wash by the force of the impact.

Those are really dangerous.

Pilot was unfamiliar with all aspects of the LZ (first flight here)...

How the fuck many "ASPECTS" of a primary putting green in good conditions (light, straight in breeze) does one NEED to be "FAMILIAR WITH"? What "ASPECTS" did he cite as being problematic? Unpredicted rotor off of the treeline?

...and reportedly this was his second flight after one year off.

Yep. That sure puts you at a disadvantage with respect to those unfamiliar aspects.

Oh, yeah, the count isn't quite right.

5. H4 pilot with unknown time off (living out of state) chose to fold-up and drive down due to conditions.

Which ones? The:
- turbulence that put H4-1 into the launch ground loop?
- seeming rushiness to launch that caused H4-2 to forget his usual hook-in check?
- lulling that caused H4-3 to become airborne with a tip dragging?
- good conditions (light, straight in breeze in) that produced unfamiliar aspects and caused H4-4 to turn on final high and overshoot the manicured runway?

Great judgment there, H4-5. Always better to be safe than aviating.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=5033
Extraordinary Carnage for One Day

NMERider - 2015/12/12 06:06:16 UTC

Thanks for the club report, Jim.

Yeah Jim. Good thing you got all that - since for some reason no one happened to be flying with a camera on that day.

This would be a really good time for the pilots to submit their reports into the new, confidential USHPA Accident/Incident Report System:
http://airs.ushpa.aero/

I think it would be a really good time for the "pilots" to submit their reports to the insurance company and the landowners with whom we're currently negotiating. Show 'em what Advanced rated hang gliders can do when they really put their minds to it.

This would be valuable information that will help others avoid repeating the same experiences.

Sure. You can bet your bottom dollar that after the wake-up call H4-2 delivered with his reportedly perfect launch that all subsequent pilots became extra focused regarding remembering to do hook-in checks. Or, at the very least, not to seem to one wire crew member to be in a rush to launch.

(Hey one wire crew member who remarked that pilot who launched unhooked seemed to be in a rush to launch... What did the pilots who DIDN'T launch unhooked that afternoon seem to be in?)

Thanks in advance to the pilots.

Fuck those "pilots". Not one of those douchebags had the character to post anything to help cultivate the culture of communication and transparency and steadily foster the culture of safety that our u$hPa pigfuckers are always droning on about.

Witnesses may also report as well.

Like the ones for Jesse Fulkersin and Karen Carra did.

The silver lining to me getting blacklisted out of the sport seven years ago is that I no longer have any motivation to associate with the stupid sleazebags that infest it and drown at anything and everything that smacks of competency and/or decency.

Look at all the really great Grebloville discussions these four same-afternoon incidents have generated. Remember how much flak Robert Kesselring caught for light air launches that he jumped into but got away with OK? And remember when Jesse Fulkersin came in with plenty of speed, got popped by a thermal, corrected, clipped a tree, and spun in? And remember when Karen Carra did at High Rock something very similar to what H4-1 and H4-3 did at Kagel. And yet another Grebloville unhooked launch.

http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=3747
Looking for a Safety Mascot
43 posts, 10097 hits. And guess what... After less than a month shy of three years still no Safety Mascot.

These fuckin' Southern California flyers get tons of thermalling conditions, all their launches are wide open slopes, all their LZs are wide open fields with overshoots, and they don't know what trees, rocks, cliffs, slots are. That's why they piss all over Eastern airtime and XC totals, wire crews, towing, and think unhooked launches every few months are just inconvenient costs of doing business - typically resulting in some bent tubing and a few scrapes and bruises. Shift that bullshit they're pulling and getting away with out there back to the Appalachian sites and...

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=33758
Free flight forever fundraiser

Jack Axaopoulos - 2015/12/12 03:57:09 UTC

Just as I thought..... Have fun hanging out with the rest of the BobK lunatics, keyboard warrior. BANNED.

These BobK proxies are a little too obvious.
If anyone else wants to join the org and egg me on into banning them so they can cry censorship like a big baby, go right ahead.

In other words...

http://www.hanggliding.org/wiki/HG_ORG_Mission_Statement
HangGliding.Org Rules and Policies

Please treat the admin as a regular user. As long as you follow the rules, there is NO CHANCE you will banned because you disagree with the admin. The admin would like to be part of this community too without having to walk on egg shells because people think his word holds more weight for whatever reason. It does not. But the admin will do his job as moderator when he has to. But please follow the rules and don't make him do it, he doesn't enjoy that part.

Don't ever disagree with the administrator about anything for any reason or you will be banned.
Totally love this factionalization that's ramping up bigtime right now. US hang gliding is starting to look a lot like the Middle East.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27609
Do we really need tandem hang gliding?

Mark Frutiger - 2015/12/12 4:14:39 UTC

Although discovery tandem flights result in a low percentage of new pilots, it does indeed bring some new pilots into the sport.

Whom you're quite sure wouldn't come into the sport were it not for tandem "discovery" flights. And you also know fer sure that the thrill rides aren't killing enthusiasm for learning solo and entering careers.

People that already know they want to fly, but need a place to learn can go to flight parks that can only exist because of the income generated by discovery flights. If you think a flight park can survive on $25 solo tows only, you are mistaken.

So ya bake in line as a third class citizen watching the soaring window evaporate while tandems and Rooney Link beneficiaries repeatedly cut in front. And the tandem aerotow thrill ride industry has killed off the flying launch cart as an airport option.

Take discovery flights away and all the major flight parks will need to charge $50 or more for a solo tow. How many pilots are willing to pay that?

I dunno... $25 sled versus $50 three hour cloud baser...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Davis Straub - 2011/08/28 15:26:28 UTC

Then again, Russell Brown had us double up behind him after six breaks in a row at Zapata. We couldn't figure out why we had so many breaks so quickly. Maybe just coincidence.

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/28 19:39:17 UTC

Weak links break for all kinds of reasons.
Some obvious, some not.

The general consensus is the age old adage... "err on the side of caution".

The frustration of a weaklink break is just that, frustration.
And it can be very frustrating for sure. Especially on a good day, which they tend to be. It seems to be a Murphy favorite. You'll be in a long tug line on a stellar day just itching to fly. The stars are all lining up when *bam*, out of nowhere your trip to happy XC land goes up in a flash. Now you've got to hike it all the way back to the back of the line and wait as the "perfect" window drifts on by.

I get it.
It can be a pisser.

But the "other side"... the not cautions one... is not one of frustration, it's one of very real danger.
Better to be frustrated than in a hospital, or worse.
No exaggeration... this is the fire that the "other side" is made of. Best not to play with it.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec

Mark Frutiger - 2013/02/08 19:12:21 UTC

Zack hit the lift a few seconds after I did. He was high and to the right of the tug and was out of my mirror when the weak ling broke. The load on the tug was not excessive as with a lockout, but I was not surprised when the weak link broke. I was still in the thermal when I caught sight of Zack again. I did not see the entry to the tumble, but I did see two revolutions of a forward tumble before kicking the tug around to land.

Put a price tag on the cost of the increase in the safety of the towing operations bestowed upon us by the Industry's magic fishing line. Make sure you cover all the "free" relights, missed soaring windows, driving time, glider damage, career ending injuries, fatalities. Asshole.

Who wants to see Quest, Wallaby, Lookout, the Florida Ridge and Highland go away?

Little would make me happier. And would've made me happier when Highland first came to town at the beginning of the 1999 season.

As for the safety record, show me the data that says aero tow tandem is not among the safest ways a person can experience hang gliding.

- If you count tandem as experiencing hang gliding.

- Yeah. Wheel launches and landings, automatic/forced hook-in check, four hands available for flying the glider and actuating the easily reachable release.

How many aero tow tandem fatalities have there been in the last 5 years?

How many tandem aerotow instructor fatalities have occurred behind Mark Frutiger in the last three years?

As a former tug pilot I can say that my comfort level was high with professional tandem instructors behind me and much lower with solo pilots.

How 'bout professional tandem instructors flying solo behind you? I'd think win/win - all that skill and experience and nearly double the control authority.

You don't need to take my word for this, ask any tug pilot.

OK...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec

Swift - 2013/02/27 14:22:49 UTC

Zack wasn't "sitting on the couch" when a cheap piece of string made the decision to dump him at the worst possible time.

William Olive - 2013/02/27 20:55:06 UTC

Like the rest of us, you have no idea what really happened on that tow.

We probably never will know.

Jim Rooney - 2013/02/28 01:17:55 UTC

Well said Billo
I'm a bit sick of all the armchair experts telling me how my friend died.

Ah but hg'ers get so uppity when you tell them not to speculate.

Mark Frutiger - 2013/02/08 19:12:21 UTC

I would be more than happy to answer any questions pertaining to what I saw and experienced, but I prefer not to engage in speculation at this point.

Cheers to all,
Mark

Asshole.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27609
Do we really need tandem hang gliding?

Davis Straub - 2015/12/12 04:52:51 UTC

Aerotowing is by far the preferred and safest way to launch a hang glider (there are some exceptional hill launch sites).

'Specially using Davis mandated fishing line and Davis manufactured and mandated pro toad equipment.

As Mark Frutiger confirms the adoption rate from aerotow discovery flights continues to be quite low. And it is also true that these flights do provide the bulk of income to flight parks.

No shit.

The context for my many many remarks regarding tandem flights was and is that pilots should be introduced to flight on small hill sides or even better scooter towing so that they can get that feel of flight on their own in a hang glider that is light and easily handled.

How 'bout the mandatory tandem "training" for AT ratings that Trisa and Matt imposed on everyone?

Matt Taber stated that he had a much better retention rate if he got people to do a little hill training first. (I tried to get him to use the scooter tow operation that he had the equipment for instead.)

Tandem apparently isn't the cause of our insurance problems.

Fuck...

http://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5788/23461251751_e98b9c7500_o.png


...no.

Michael Grisham - 2015/12/12 05:17:02 UTC

Davis, I respect your opinion.

You gotta respect any opinion that substitutes for knowledge and competence and flips 180 whenever convenient and when you get banned if you don't.

What is the cause of our insurance problems?

Davis and his sleazy dickheaded buddies.

And a better question is what is the solution to our insurance problems?

Losing it.

Mark Frutiger - 2015/12/12 06:29:49 UTC

Matt has the very unique position of being able to offer multiple forms of hang gliding...

Pretty much everything other than quality.

...because he has a training hill, mountain launch and aerotow.

...control of u$hPa, local government, the news media...

There is an excellent community of local pilots...

Totally excellent.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=20756
How is Zach Etheridge doing?

Bob Flynn - 2011/02/04 11:26:34 UTC

Lookout keeps this kind of stuff under their hat. You never hear of accidents there. But every time I go there, I hear about quite a few. Blown launches, tree landings, etc.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=18777
Accident - Broken Jaw - Full Face HG Helmet

Keith Skiles - 2010/08/28 05:20:01 UTC

Last year, at LMFP I saw an incident in aerotow that resulted in a very significant impact with the ground on the chest and face. Resulted in a jaw broken in several places and IIRC some tears in the shoulder.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TTTFlymail/message/11545
Cart stuck incidents

Keith Skiles - 2011/06/02 19:50:13 UTC

I witnessed the one at Lookout. It was pretty ugly. Low angle of attack, too much speed and flew off the cart like a rocket until the weak link broke, she stalled and it turned back towards the ground.

All really great people.

...in addition to the discovery business that allows him to make a decent living in a sport that provides a living wage to very few.

I'm so happy for him.

It is only because of his tireless efforts that he is able to earn what would be considered a "decent" living by those who work in the mainstream. Take discovery flights away and see what happens.

Any chance of his starving to death.

Why does anyone want to deny him what he has worked so hard for?

'Cause he's a sleazy, lying, serial killing motherfucker.

The low and slow approach is an excellent way to nurture new pilots. Steve's success is an excellent example, but again, how many are able or willing to do what he does.

All the ones with control of huge flat Happy Acres putting greens.

What happens when Steve decides to give it up?

I dunno. Maybe the unhooked launch fatality rate will dip a bit.

Who is willing to take over for the what he nets? Who else wants to set up an operation like his?

Low IQ types who can handle a lifetime of telling people up/down/left/right without going totally insane.

If you look at the purely financial aspect of hang gliding there is no reason to be in that business. The big names are in it for the love of the sport, not the financial reward.

Guess it must be going down the tubes right now 'cause of an excess of love. Or rape maybe.
Know who two of the biggest names in hang gliding are as far as the public is concerned? William Jonathan Orders and John Kelly Harrison.

Russell could probably sell all his assets, invest the proceeds, make more money and reduce his risk to zero. He benefits and the rest of the flying community suffers. Same thing for Malcom, Sunny, Matt and James.

And ya know what all those motherfuckers have in common? Other than love of the sport I mean. Quote one of them ever participating in any discussions - critical or what the fuck ever - in any forums with any of us muppets.

Instead of bashing tandem flights and those that are actually sustaining the sport, why not support them and send business their way?

I used to. Huge fucking mistake.

Cheers to all,
Mark

and BTW, I am no longer in the business, so I have no dog in the fight, I just want to see the sport continue.

- In the same wonderful manner that it's always continued. Fifteen fatalities this year so far.
- Oh really?

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec

Mark Frutiger - 2013/02/08 19:12:21 UTC

I would be more than happy to answer any questions pertaining to what I saw and experienced, but I prefer not to engage in speculation at this point.

Why don't you tell us muppets at what point you might wanna engage in speculation 'cause I'm pretty sure we've heard all we're going to on that one from u$hPa.

Bille Floyd - 2015/12/12 20:09:10 UTC

Of the 2500 or so tandems i did from 1980 to 1995 ; only a hand-full of my passengers, ever actually went on to get a hang-4 rating.
That said :
Something is wrong with that scenario , because there is essentially, (NO-Way) your going to be getting a sailplane, or private pilot license ; unless you study and go up with an instructor , ((Tandem)). Why do you suppose, that is ?

Because:

- hang gliding is based upon opinion rather than sound aeronautical theory so any answer anybody gives on a written test is right

- hang glider trainers weigh fifty pounds, don't have any moving parts to speak of, and can be flown at bicycle speeds off thirty foot hills and dunes five feet off the surface

BTW -- not one of my passengers , ever needed a hospital , or coroner , (when we landed) ;

Yeah, you just do insane moronic shit...

http://ozreport.com/forum/files/having_a_bad_day_178.jpg

http://ozreport.com/forum/files/copy_2_of_imgp1239_197.jpg
http://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7220/13949046702_ccfa0fafab_o.png

http://www.thekiteboarder.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/opener-532x800.jpg

...solo.

so i would say that there is Definitely something WRONG with the training , that today's tandem pilots are receiving , if that many people are dying from tandem flights (.)

Oh. So you did twenty-five HUNDRED tandem flights without mangling anyone the way you mangled yourself - twice - and factory operations are collectively spewing out HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS and killing a dozen or so. And that's mathematical proof that...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec

Jim Gaar - 2013/02/13 19:59:19 UTC

Why yes!

After 5 years as Safety and Launch Marshall for Adventure AirSports and towing (with a Dragonfly 582 BH) every type of wing class available on 3 different styles of carts and using Pro-tow and COM bridles and over 400 incident and accident free tows I feel it's pretty much the standard.

I would not/did not hesitate to assess each and every tow along with the conditions, experience of the towing pilot and wing type in confirming it's use.

FIVE YEARS and FOUR *HUNDRED* incident and accident free Rooney Linked tows so obviously...

Jim Gaar - 2013/02/13 17:57:05 UTC

Former Flight Park Manager

Because it has the best known and accountable safety record (in my personal books anyway).