http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=5033
Extraordinary Carnage for One Day
Jim Shaw - 2015/12/18 00:01:12 UTC
Brian and Bob, am I missing something?
You're in Grebloville. Probably not a whole lotta shit you're NOT missing.
Did JD suggest not to list here also?
- List WHAT? Groceries? Checks? Buckets? Birds? Shit?
- So what's your point? What somebody else suggests one does or doesn't do is law?
Unless I am all wet...
Which you undoubtedly ARE.
...an apology may be in order from you both.
Or it may not.
If I stand corrected I will gladly do so myself.
Haven't got all day here.
NMERider - 2015/12/18 02:52:05 UTC
Jim, Even if you were mistaken (which you are not), you would in no way owe either poster an apology of any kind since neither one flies at Sylmar or has any say in our club's affairs.
I looked around and didn't see anything about flying at Sylmar or being involved in your club or affairs. Is aviation in the LA area that much different from what it is in other areas? Aside from the typical consequences of skipping hook-in checks I mean?
What you are reading smacks of cynicism toward USHPA...
What else is REMOTELY possible?
...and should be taken up directly with the board of USHPA.
Good freakin' luck. We've all seen just how well that works.
The conduct you are seeing is juvenile at best...
Shouldn't we be trying to get a few people UNDER the age of sixty into the sport?
...and none of this has any place on the SHGA forum.
- Show me the SOPs.
- Again, “Looking for a Safety Mascot" and after forty-three posts and three weeks shy of three years no closer to actually finding one. So exactly how do we define what does and doesn't have a place on the SHGA forum?
What our members chose to post about their accidents...
Their whats?
...here is their own free choice.
Yep. And in this wave of Extraordinary Carnage for One Day every single member (thanks for pretty much confirming that they were all members) freely chose to post NOTHING - as has become extremely fashionable in just a few of the recent years.
There is no obligation to share or discuss details of one's own accidents in public, period.
- Or those of the students whom one has signed off.
- I remember the days when we had on the books very serious penalties for instructors not reporting serious training incidents.
- So exactly where has this policy of right to remain silent gotten us?
- I've screwed a lot of major pooches in the course of my career and always felt that it would be dishonorable to not post a full detailed honest report. And on top of that there are ALWAYS gonna be witnesses who are gonna know what happened and what you're not being forthcoming about. And if you start catching a bunch o' flack... What the fuck. Wait a few months and one or two of your most vocal detractors is gonna screw a much bigger pooch and cripple or kill himself. (Or the guy he's towing. (Right, Santos?))
- When you came real close to totally yourself flying into the ground on 2014/01/29 you posted what was left of the video and reported every shred of relevant information. So how much better or worse would your flying career, credibility, social standing, life in general have been if you'd Tim Herred everything?
- Was Jesse Fulkersin's 2015/10/11 approach fatality as inevitable as the u$hPa damage control operatives are portraying it? He was doing everything totally flawlessly, clipped a tree, spun in, got killed instantly. If he gets a do-over starting as he's turning onto final he's gonna do everything exactly the same as the first time - totally flawlessly - and get better results.
Anybody remotely worthy of the designation PILOT wants to know everything possible about serious incidents. But in hang gliding nobody wants to provide the slightest detail of any incident involving himself. Fuck that bullshit culture. This is how come I tend not to get overly upset when I hear about the next guy becoming a statistic.
Since the AIRS database is confidential and the records therein are protected by statute and cannot be subpoenaed or even externally disclosed.
- Not a sentence.
- Oh good. Even more steel and lead lining around the most useful/valuable safety information.
This frees pilots of the hazards that come with divulging details of accidents in which they are involved.
- Let's continue killing accountability wherever we see it rearing its ugly head.
- What HAZARDS?
http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=5033
Extraordinary Carnage for One Day
Jim Thompson - 2015/12/12 01:42:36 UTC
Pilot impacted, at speed, on the upslope to the SIBL parking area at the bottom of the road to the wash. Pilot sustained a deep gash to lower leg, cut on hand and probably a very stiff neck from slamming headfirst into the soft dirt. Broken downtube and possible damage to a carbon wing extender that was catapulted into the wash by the force of the impact.
Don't the hazards typically tend to be history a few seconds after things first start going south?
In theory this paves the way for broader and more detailed accident reporting in which the details may be sanitized, summarized and then disclosed in public and in a manner that benefits interested pilots.
In theory a loop of magic fishing line will very clearly provide protection from excessive angles of attack, high bank turns, and the like for our form of towing.
In practice we have yet to get one punctuation mark's worth of information of this latest of u$hPa scams. When are you predicting that we'll be getting better results? Think it would help if we all wore our FOCUSED PILOT wristbands while we waited?
- Not everyone is welcome over here. I'm afraid that all the hang gliding people who ARE welcome over here are already over here.
- Rant... OK, what in hang gliding doesn't need ranting about?
- Curse... Probably about the same rate as what you'd get on the Daily Show and Colbert Report. Big fuckin' deal.
- Her... Only two known female types registered - Ann Fawkes and Niki Longshore. No posts from either, couple email messages between Niki and Yours Truly.
- One doesn't just get to rant and/or curse to one's heart's desire over here. There are common sense rules defined in the first two posts and they have been and will be enforced.
THIS:
http://torreyhawks.org/r3/ENDNOFR.HTM
Endorsements
NMERider
I voted for Bob after spending a very enjoyable hour on the telephone with him a few months ago. My impression of Bob is that he is a level headed and enthusiastic supporter of both hang gliding and paragliding, and above all: SAFETY.
BobK?
Why not? I had an acquaintance who, in the mid-60s was simultaneously members of the John Birch Society and Students for a Democratic Society. Who says you can't have it both ways?
Certainly not Bob. More democracy and individual rights and freedoms than one could possibly imagine - as long as Emperor Bob has 100.00 percent of the control over everything.
Jim Shaw - 2015/12/18 16:52:46 UTC
JD, nicely written.
Jim, I for one appreciate your post very much.
Because he gives you information that all of the assholes involved in the incidents reported on in Jim's post totally withheld? Wouldn't that put you more in alignment with Brian and Bob than with Jonathan?
And as you already know, I am sure the silent majority of us Kagelites do as well!
Yep. That's sure one helluva silent majority y'all have...
http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=1389
Where are the Accident Reports for the two fatalities 2008?
Joe Greblo - 2009/04/11 15:16:54 UTC
Accident reports for both Richard and Jeff have been submitted to the USHPA. I sent one in for Richard and the SHGA has a copy in their files. I suspect accident reports were submitted by more than just one individual. For Richard's accident, I personally have a copy of the one I sent in and one that Rome sent. I'd be happy to share them with any current club member that would like to read them in my presence, but I don't think that they will be published out of deference to the families.
This is because accident reports are submitted by simple witnesses to the accident and not professional accident investigators. These witnesses are often other pilots, or simply spectators or passers by. The content often includes personal opinions of why the accident happened; opinions that do not necessarily hold true.
The USHPA often publishes summaries of accident reports in an effort to educate pilots as to specific dangers or accident trends. I don't know if a summary covering Richard or Jeff's accidents will appear in a future issue of Hang Gliding Magazine.
...over there in Grebloville. 'Specially the dead guys. You should be very proud. And I for one am always very appreciative of all the stuff nobody ever posts on your forum. Really hard to find better quality silence than that anywhere in hang gliding.
As my good friend in England likes to say, "Well done!" - to both of you.
What a clever saying from your good friend in England. I sure wish I had good friends in England like that providing me such memorable quotes. About the best I can do is acquaintances in America who like to say stuff like, "Nice!"
Fuckin' asshole.
