instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6874
Dennis Pagen Recovering

Brian Vant-Hull - 2015/12/18 16:32:00 UTC

Dear All;

Dennis has had nerve problems in his neck and shoulder, and in the last couple of weeks he declined rapidly. He went in for surgery on Wednesday, and now is home recovering. It will be a long recovery, and I know from my own experiences with injury that cards and calls make a huge difference.

Those who know him well enough to call already have his phone number, but not everyone who would send a card has his physical address, which I will take the liberty to publish here:

318 Bittner Road
Spring Mills PA 16875

He's a big part of Hang Gliding in the US, many people here know him, and I know support would mean a lot to him.

Brian.

Dear All;

Who's "All", Brian? You useless douchebags "suspended" me for three months seven years plus about nine and a half days ago. When do I get to resume being part of "All"?

Dennis has had nerve problems in his neck and shoulder, and in the last couple of weeks he declined rapidly.

Did he decline as rapidly as some of the hundreds of victims who relied on the crap he's been circulating in "Towing Aloft" for the past eighteen years?

It will be a long recovery, and I know from my own experiences with injury...

Stay in the tree next time and you'll have better experiences. Either that or fly with proper descent gear.

...that cards and calls make a huge difference.

This:

pagenbks@lazerlink.com - 2006/08/18 13:43:32 UTC

T,
I am in Switzerland for the World aero meet. Will be back on the 29th. I wont stiff you on the money. I just want to talk about some things. No wildlife here except swans...
Dennis

is the last I ever heard from the motherfucker. A follow-up card with a check in it would've made something of a difference to me.

Those who know him well enough to call already have his phone number...

Those who know him well enough to call shouldn't be calling.

He's a big part of Hang Gliding in the US...

- Like Dr. Trisa Tilletti, Davis Dead-On Straub, Steve Exceptionally-Knowledgeable Wendt, Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney, and crippling and killing inconveniences...

- Which is all he ever wanted to be and all he ever accomplished. Fuckin' parasite.

...many people here know him...

Most not well enough, a few much too well.

...and I know support would mean a lot to him.

His would've meant a lot to me in years past. Fuck him and the horse he rode in on.

I don't wish him that kinda ill but he's not real high on my priorities list.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=3747
Looking for a Safety Mascot

NMERider - 2013/01/13 08:46:03 UTC

Believe it or not Dayna, the club already has a safety mascot and he exists in the signature line of every post penned by Joe Greblo.

Yeah, to remind ourselves what it is let's check out:

http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=5033
Extraordinary Carnage for One Day

Whoa! Nothing there. OK, let's check out his most recent post (from a week shy of two months ago):

http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=5009
Our friends are asking us for help

Joe Greblo - 2015/10/29 18:13:39 UTC

Pilots,

Several of our community allies have asked us to join them in signing a petition to encourage the Trader Joe company to open a store in Sylmar...
---
Safety is a book, not a word
Michael Robertson

There we go. 'Specially with respect to some of those deadly petition signing activities.

http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=1389
Where are the Accident Reports for the two fatalities 2008?

Joe Greblo - 2009/04/11 15:16:54 UTC

Accident reports for both Richard and Jeff have been submitted to the USHPA. I sent one in for Richard and the SHGA has a copy in their files. I suspect accident reports were submitted by more than just one individual. For Richard's accident, I personally have a copy of the one I sent in and one that Rome sent. I'd be happy to share them with any current club member that would like to read them in my presence, but I don't think that they will be published out of deference to the families.

This is because accident reports are submitted by simple witnesses to the accident and not professional accident investigators. These witnesses are often other pilots, or simply spectators or passers by. The content often includes personal opinions of why the accident happened; opinions that do not necessarily hold true.

The USHPA often publishes summaries of accident reports in an effort to educate pilots as to specific dangers or accident trends. I don't know if a summary covering Richard or Jeff's accidents will appear in a future issue of Hang Gliding Magazine.

John Kelly Harrison - 55 - Nevada - 53375 - H5 - 1996/10/23 - Joe Greblo - PL TFL TPL AWCL CL FSL RLF TUR XC - ADV INST, TAND INST - Exp: 2015/06/30

Here is our current safety mascot:

Yeah, one of the eyes behind the shades our current safety mascot is glass 'cause the real one got taken out by a tow ring at the end of a nice stretchy polypro towline recoiled after the focal point of his safe towing system increased the safety of the towing operation while the glider he was boat towing was climbing normally and doing fine. (Mike didn't do anything wrong, by the way. It was all the glider's fault for upping the weak link to something that would allow a few seconds more climb without informing him. (Just read his account of the incident if you don't believe me.))

His name is Michael Robertson and he is the author of an excellent system for increasing safety while still enjoying flying:
http://www.flyhigh.com/reliability.html

Is it as good for increasing safety while still enjoying flying as the excellent book, Towing Aloft, by Dennis Pagen and Bill Bryden?

I don't even know who else knows about this beside Greblo.

- Me! Me! Me! Me! Me! The motherfucker crashed me twice on stationary winch tow. Chopped power when I was skimming straight and level waiting for him to pull me up and gassed me into a hard impact lockout with the easily reachable two stage release with which he'd equipped me when I came off the cart crooked in a strong ninety cross.

- Who else knows about this beside Greblo? Speaks volumes about how much effort Mike's putting into getting his message out, don't it? Name some mainstream glider people who don't know about T** at K*** S****** and his Rube Goldberg release systems, deadly Tad-O-Links, false sense of security giving hook-in checks, abusive sidewire stomps, head smashing prone approaches, faggot wheel landings in faggot Happy Acres putting greens. And from how many forums have Mike and Joe been banned?

Why isn't my accident rate lower? Well, it is lower than it would be if I wasn't aware of our mascot's methodology as well as the FAA course on aeronautical decision making.

http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/aviation/pilot_handbook/media/phak%20-%20chapter%2017.pdf

Glad YOU...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=27044
Here's a scary one for ya!

Don Arsenault - 2012/09/05 01:09:41 UTC

It was not a weak link break, and I don't believe the release touched the control bar. I got a crap release. That's all there is to it. I never ever had a double release on any of the training harnesses. When I switched to the spaghetti, and bought this release, it double released on me all the time, but I usually don't transition until at least 200', so it's always been a non-event. Annoying, but a non-event. I told them there was something wrong with the release, and they didn't believe me. Thought I was too new, and it was my technique. Until this flight. The release just let go. My hands never left the down tubes, and it did not touch the base bar. It was the final straw. If I let the video keep rolling, you would have seen me quickly lose my cool, and yell and curse and march into the office to demand a new release. I got one, and my next flight went great.

...got something positive out of him.

I don't know how much better things will get with a mascot as compared to how much we need to openly discuss how we successfully prevented accidents along with how we applied either Robertson's or the FAA's methodology to our flying and to our peers.

u$hPa's finishing a bloodbath year and getting its insurance chopped and neither of these motherfuckers has uttered a single relevant word on anything.

If Michael Robertson's smiling face or an androgynous parrot (named after a Julia Sweeney skit on SNL) as our safety mascot helps accomplish that then so much the better.

Here's the full quote:

http://www.rmhpa.org/messageboard/viewtopic.php?t=3461
Risk Management and Risk Tolerance in 2011

Allen Sparks - 2011/01/02 15:11 UTC

Now that the New Year has begun I have turned my thoughts to Safety.

"Safety is a book, not a word, an attitude more than an action.
It is a practiced pattern not a single step, awareness of a broad perspective and attention to fine detail.
Safety is confident and positive yet humble and sensitive.
Safety demands respect and it costs time and money, it also pays and saves.

Pay now and play longer." - Michael Robertson

I don't know what good that's supposed to do. I've never heard anybody write from the hospital room, "DAMN! If only I'd read that before I came in with plenty of speed, got popped by that thermal, corrected, and clipped that tree."

Rocky Mountain rag, by the way. That's where, post Lenami Godinez-Avila, they totally refused to engage me when I was pushing u$hPa's hook-in check regulation, banned me upon the request of Tom I-Don't-Teach-Lift-And-Tug-As-It-Gives-A-False-Sense-Of-Security Galvin, and deleted all my posts.

http://www.kitestrings.org/post5453.html#p5453

It's also one of the rags on which Joe Greblo and Mike Robertson never post.

u$hPa is an organization with a STATED MISSION of killing solid safety/competence procedures and anybody who isn't constantly involved in vicious combat with those motherfuckers is part of the problem.

[Tad Eareckson]

Robert V. Wills - 1981/06

1980 FATALITIES UPDATED - The Same Old Refrain

One of the discouraging aspects of accident reporting is that you get letters of indignation and demands for retraction from people who made no report of an accident, then complain that we did not get all the facts straight. This is often the case with manufacturers, many of whom aren't enthused about publishing accident reports in the first place. I have run into a number of cases where a manufacturer demanded a retraction about the type of equipment reported in connection with a fatality, then supplied us with data which was never sent in originally. We never represented that all of the data we receive is 100% accurate, just that we summarize it the best we can. Perhaps the best protection against erroneous data is more conscientious reporting by more people.

The accident reports coming through the USHGA have recently been forwarded both to me and Dr. Doug Hildreth of Eugene, Oregon, who has been asked by the Association to analyze non-fatal accident data along with the fatalities. I have now completed seven years of reviewing fatality accidents, covering the decade between 1971 through 1980, and think it is time for someone else to take on the job. I am therefore asking Carol Velderrain to forward all of the correspondence to Doug Hildreth in the future. He is a very fine surgeon up in Oregon who has long been concerned about safety in hang gliding, and the Association is fortunate to have the benefit of his expertise and dedication. I wish him well in what I regard as a rather sad but vital function for the beautiful sport of hang gliding.

[Tad Eareckson]

Recently watched FRONTLINE's "League of Denial: The NFL's Concussion Crisis" again and last evening saw "Concussion" (Dr. Bennet Omalu (Will Smith) at the local theater. Knowing nothing beyond the facts that Omalu had discovered the Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy issue with players and attempted to have something done about it I could've written the book in a week and the screenplay in ten minutes from my own experiences with u$hPa and the Industry. SO predictable.

Differences...

- The NFL is a zillion times bigger and more powerful than u$hPa.

- Whereas u$hPa mangles and kills a smallish percentage of participants in single event incidents the NFL and its feeder programs destroys a huge percentage of its participants over years and decades of nonstop batterings.

- The NFL pretty much CAN'T do anything to make its activity safer while u$hPa could easily and cheaply reduce the carnage to one percent of what it's been since the advent of glider certification but WON'T because it can never admit that it always COULD HAVE.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=33071
Crazy XC Landing Spots

Jason Boehm - 2016/01/12 15:53:21 UTC

the guy who leaves adequate safety margins dies of old age......

whether its me blowing a spin
or ryan crashing on the southside on a low flyby
or AP avoiding a midair
or chris muller
or rotor

the sport is worth doing, but it can and has killed when given the opportunity, might as well stack the deck in your favor as much as you can

Kunio Yoshimura skipping a hook-in check
Steve Elliot having an Industry Standard bent pin release within easy reach
Terry Mason having an observer ready to make a good decision in the interest of his safety at the front end
Zack Marzec using a piece of fishing line with a huge track record on one end of his pro toad bridle as the focal point of his safe towing system
Joe Julik going upright to the control tubes at the beginning of final for better roll and flare authority
Rafi Lavin making sure neither of his sidewires were ever once compromised by a preflight stomp test

It's perfectly OK for Jack and Davis Show assholes to deliberately butcher their safety margins before getting off the ground or setting up to return to it just as long as the bullshit they're pulling is mainstream.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=33896
USHPA doesn't want instructors that live out of their van.

Wilbur Brown - 2016/01/13 01:15:31 UTC

I was wounding how much was spent on the rubber ban wrist bands myself, it must be in the thousands.

And I'm wounding how many dollars were spent on your grade school education? Three? Four maybe?

Mark G. Forbes - 2016/01/13 05:51:14 UTC

Will: I thought the wristbands were a little hokey myself, but they were pretty popular with some people and it got folks talking about safety. I don't know if it helped or not, but you have to try things to see if they work. You can buy 9000 wristbands, imprinted and delivered for about $1400, so it's not a big expense to try to push some safety awareness. If it saved even one pilot from having an accident through a greater focus on safety, it was worth doing.

I thought the wristbands were a little hokey myself, but they were pretty popular with some people...

- Name one of them.
- Yeah, the assholes selling them.
- Interesting that none of the people with whom they were popular posted their takes anywhere, dontchya think?

...and it got folks talking about safety.

- Quote somebody.

- Tell us about some of the positive results of these discussions.

- Name some instances from the history of hang gliding in which glider dickheads TALKING about safety ACTUALLY DID ANYTHING about safety. Tell me about some of the positive changes we've seen since I started in the sport in the spring of 1980.

- Were any of the nine who died on impact or one who held on for a couple hours this year involved in any of these conversations?

- Since when did u$hPa start considering folks talking about safety to be a...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=32681
Tandem crash in LV (speculation thread)

Mark G. Forbes - 2015/03/30 23:29:59 UTC

Please, no speculation

Hi folks,

I understand the interest in learning the cause of this, but could we please not speculate on the forum? We have a very experienced tow administrator (Mitch Shipley) headed to Las Vegas to do an accident investigation, and when we learn what really happened we'll convey that information to our members. He'll be working with two of the local instructors there to get to the truth.

Meanwhile, please refrain from offering speculation or opinion on what might have happened, what might have been theoretically done to prevent it and so on. Emotions are raw, people are hurting, and uninformed speculation doesn't help anybody. News reports are of little use since they're written by people who have no idea how our sport works or what is typical.

Thanks for your understanding and patience.

Mark G. Forbes - 2015/03/31 03:10:32 UTC

I'm not either, so I rely on the advice I get from people who are. Based on our past experience, comments in club forums and venues like this one can and will be cited in court. As an example, a comment as innocuous as "Let's all keep an eye out for each other out there" was used to argue that every pilot present at a launch site had a duty to prevent a launched-unhooked fatal accident. The pilots at the site didn't know that the pilot in question was intent on launching; they thought he was just walking over to the ramp to line up first. And then he ran off the ramp, the glider flew away and he didn't. And then we got sued.

I ask because I've seen what's happened in the past. Things we post in public forums can have consequences, and I'm trying to give you some context so you understand what's at stake. Please consider that when posting.

...GOOD thing?

- The 2013/02/02 Zack Marzec inconvenience fatality got people talking about safety bigtime. Then Davis...



...STOPPED them from talking about safety. So when does he get his u$hPa NAA Safety Award?

I don't know if it helped or not...

Me either. Let's ask Kelly Harrison, Arys Moorhead, Markus Schaedler, Scott Trueblood, Bertrand Delacroix, Trey Higgins, Rafi Lavin, Craig Pirazzi, Jesse Fulkersin, Karen Carra.

...but you have to try things to see if they work.

- Well yeah. If your mission is to steadily foster a culture of safety it would be certifiably insane NOT to distribute FOCUSED PILOT wristbands to all members to see if they work. That's exactly how we came up with the 130 pound Greenspot standard aerotow weak link. Distributed them for free; mandated that everyone use them; established an extremely long track record; published a fourteen page magazine article explaining the differences between de jure, de facto, nominal, and actual loops of 130 pound Greenspot; got ourselves a proven system that worked.

- And whenever you have something that's already been tried and you KNOW will work...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=27736
Increase in our USHpA dues

Mark G. Forbes - 2012/12/20 06:21:33 UTC

There are also numerous legal issues associated with accident reports, which we're still wrestling with. It's a trade-off between informing our members so they can avoid those kinds of accidents in the future, and exposing ourselves to even more lawsuits by giving plaintiff's attorneys more ammunition to shoot at us.

Imagine a report that concludes, "If we'd had a procedure "x" in place, then it would have probably prevented this accident. And we're going to put that procedure in place at the next BOD meeting." Good info, and what we want to be able to convey. But what comes out at trial is, "Ladies and Gentlemen of the Jury, my client suffered injury because USHPA knew or should have known that a safety procedure was not in place, and was therefore negligent and at fault." We're constantly walking this line between full disclosure and handing out nooses at the hangmen's convention.

...you kill it. Better-the-participants-than-the-administrators thing.

- Really? Why would people who...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25321
Stop the Stupids at the USHPA BOD meeting

Mark G. Forbes - 2011/09/29 02:26:23 UTC

We can establish rules which we think will improve pilot safety, but our attorney is right. USHPA is not in the business of keeping pilots "safe" and it can't be. Stepping into that morass is a recipe for extinction of our association.

...are and can not be in the safety business, who would go the way of the dodo if they were, have the slightest interest in trying ANYTHING that had any risk of reducing risk?

You can buy 9000 wristbands...

I could. I choose not to.

...imprinted and delivered for about $1400...

- Wow! Think how safe you could make a single individual for just fourteen hundred dollars worth of wristbands!
- Delivered WHERE, Mark? That's fifteen and a half cents a copy. That obviously doesn't include the cost of getting one into somebody's mailbox.

...so it's not a big expense to try to push some safety awareness.

- Doesn't cost anything. Just wait until the next asshole buys it. A fatality is ALWAYS gonna generate three or four posts about general safety awareness.

- Rather than actually do anything to actually increase actual safety - like using two and a half dollar straight parachute pins for barrel releases to more than triple the mechanical advantage of the crap Bobby Fucking-Genius Bailey and his cult members spew out with two and a half dollar bent pins.

If it saved even one pilot from having an accident through a greater focus on safety, it was worth doing.

- What if it does the precise opposite - like the hang check? "I've got my FOCUSED PILOT wristband on and am extremely focused so OBVIOUSLY I don't need to - and, in fact, SHOULDN'T - be doing preflight stomp tests."

- What if the one pilot saved from having an accident is some total piece o' shit like Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney?

- If it had saved one pilot from having so much as a bonked stunt landing in the two years minus a week and a half since this scam went operational how come we haven't heard anything?

- We've had the better part of a decade of this crap:

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5492/14666057035_1786a4e18c_o.jpg


from Dan DeWeese and the evidence that it does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to reduce the likelihood of an unhooked launch...

http://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5566/14704620965_ce30a874b7_o.png


is overwhelming.

- Fourteen hundred dollars is about one and a half parachutes. On 2015/03/27 Kelly Harrison didn't even think to use his. But maybe if he'd been wearing one of those wristbands...

- A Kaluzhin release is ONE hundred dollars. Guess how many of them could've gone into circulation if you hadn't squandered the resources on this crap you used to foster a culture of safety.

- If you really had any interest in seeing if your snake oil is doing anything positive how come you're not:
-- collecting data on whether or not crash victims were wearing the wristbands?
-- soliciting comments from members regarding benefits?

- Pretty much the only way we know anything about accidents that DON'T happen are accounts from the individual flyers themselves. "I hooked in and did my hang check in the staging area but then unhooked to adjust my camera. But just before I was gonna start my run off the ramp my FOCUSED PILOT wristband afforded me a greater focus on safety so I asked my nose man to hold the glider level while I went down for another hang check. Thank u$hPa and God for that wristband!. The number of such accounts to date is ZERO.

- Tim Herr, as you've reported and in accordance with the current u$hPa SOPs, shreds all accident reports in which there's a possibility of u$hPa liability issues - which obviously means he shreds pretty much all of them. So tell me how we can possibly determine what effects your FOCUSED PILOT wristbands - or anything else we use or do - are having on safety.

- Was there the slightest possibility that the oversight of Torrey called for by Bob Kuczewski for years would've saved Shannon Hamby from her career ending, life altering, and very expensive accident on 2011/07/24? You said "you have to try things to see if they work" and that if fourteen hundred dollars worth of FOCUSED PILOT wristbands saved "even one pilot from having an accident through a greater focus on safety, it was worth doing". Aren't you being just a wee bit disingenuous here? 'Specially in light of the fact that a court found what Shannon and Bob were claiming was a whole lot more credible than what u$hPa and Tim were claiming?

[Steve Davy]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=33936
Why Will RRG Succeed if Insurance Failed?

NMERider - 2016/01/18 18:41:06 UTC

Past insurance didn't fail. We as a group are who failed. We failed to self-regulate. We turned a blind eye or gave the nod and the wink to those whose actions later resulted in third-party injury or loss. Had we been more active in keeping an eye on our own ranks and stepped up to the plate and gotten involved quickly we may have prevented any number of accidents that resulted in insurance claims and payouts.

You left out the part about those that did step up and got involved being viciously attacked by Paul Hurless/Jim Rooney/Jack Asshole caliber scum, NME.

[Tad Eareckson]

We've even gotta credit Bob for doing some of the stepping up part - while recognizing that he was/is twenty times as significant in the vicious attacking mode.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=33936
Why Will RRG Succeed if Insurance Failed?

NMERider - 2016/01/18 18:41:06 UTC

Now that we will be self-insured the question again arises whether or not we as a group will regulate ourselves adequately?

Fuck no. We as a group have decades worth of ever accelerating downward inertia to deal with. And NOTHING is gonna turn that around.

I don't have an answer to this.

I sure do. Look at the fuckin' bloodbath we had in 2015 and ask yourself how many of the relevant issues are being addressed - by anything other than information lockdown, cover-up, disinformation, scapegoating.

This is the question that each and every one of us needs to ask ourselves every day.

Well great then. I'm sure we'll soon be seeing a resurrection of the Grebloville Safety Mascot thread.

Am I taking responsibly for my own actions and the actions of my peers?

With each flight, demonstrates a method of establishing that the pilot is hooked in just prior to launch.

That's our most fundamental foot launch safety SOP, zero percent of instructors teach it, most instructors attack it when cornered, maybe 0.1 percent of flyers comply with it.

An unhooked launch almost always results in a would-be pilot at least beat up pretty good and a glider free to do whatever it feels like for a while.

Get back to me when we've achieved five percent compliance. And until then don't waste my time.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=33814
USHPA CGL insurance update

Dave Pendzick - 2015/12/17 04:53:01 UTC

All kidding aside, it is not illegal to fly without insurance, there are no license requirements to fly an Ultralight Vehicle. Hang Gliding is NOT going to die, despite the dismal hyperbole & propaganda plastered all over this stupid website. Insurance is NOT mandatory, it is a choice, a wise choice I might add, & whether or not you want to fly with it is completely up to you. If you want insurance then donate, if you don't care then don't.

We lose sites. This is a fact of Hang Gliding since the beginning. This is nothing new & it has never stopped us. If you lose your local site then go search for another one & go fly it!

Sure Dave. And the one you find five hours away is probably gonna be even better than the one you had a half hour away. The extra nine hours the round trip adds to your flying day is a mere inconvenience - like the Rooney Link which keeps you from getting up on the best soaring days or dumps you into a fatal inconvenience stall when you get blasted by a thermal at 150 feet.

Christopher LeFay - 2015/12/17 12:59:22 UTC

Can you go and piss in someone else's cornflakes? "Boats take on water all the time- only bail if you don't know how to swim on your own." I am so done with your shit.

You should probably leave and go somewhere else then, Christopher. Just not back here.

Jim Gaar - 2015/12/17 13:07:24 UTC

...plastered all over this stupid website.

(underline added)

Really Dave? That got you the ignore button.

Yeah asshole. Stop stating the obvious so much.

Love it or LEAVE it comes to mind...

Yeah...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/31 09:25:57 UTC

Oh how many times I have to hear this stuff.
I've had these exact same arguments for years and years and years.
Nothing about them changes except the new faces spouting them.

It's the same as arguing with the rookie suffering from intermediate syndrome.
They've already made up their mind and only hear that which supports their opinion.

Only later, when we're visiting them in the hospital can they begin to hear what we've told them all along.

Nobody's talking about 130lb weaklinks? (oh please)
Many reasons.
Couple of 'em for ya... they're manufactured, cheap and identifiable.

See, you don't get to hook up to my plane with whatever you please. Not only am I on the other end of that rope... and you have zero say in my safety margins... I have no desire what so ever to have a pilot smashing himself into the earth on my watch. So yeah, if you show up with some non-standard gear, I won't be towing you. Love it or leave it. I don't care.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23813
Threaded bridle system

Jim Gaar - 2011/05/26 15:44:33

Beyond that I'm a Rooney follower...

Big fuckin' surprise.

Christopher LeFay - 2015/12/17 13:18:36 UTC

Exactly- though "leave" suggests the exit would be a choice: I reckon it's time to clip his wires.

Oh fer sure. Somebody on the Jack Show has withdrawn his nose a few inches from Jack's sleazy ass. Naked Emperor and useless sycophants are horrified.

Jack Axaopoulos - 2015/12/17 14:04:10 UTC

I really should have started running this site as a business owner a long time ago.

Instead of just as a typical u$hPa operative motherfucker.

This stupid website? No starbucks would allow a client to come into their business and do what you are doing.

Course not. If the quality of the coffee and/or service were shit and a patron stated so he'd be escorted from the premises and banned for life. And all the other customers and the general public would stand up and cheer Starbucks' action.

You are free to leave. But keep this up, and there wont be a choice.

See what great freedoms you have over there...

All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.

...Dave?

Im glad you get to keep flying , and the majority of all other pilots? Screw them... right?

Yeah, I'm totally behind that. The majority of all other pilots are getting a small chunk of exactly what they deserve.

I really dont understand your quest to get in the way and trip up any efforts put forth by others. A ton of sites are going to eventually be lost over this. THE REALLY BUSY ONES. And hang gliding will become out of reach for a very large number of pilots in the near future, causing them to hang up their wings.

Good.

End the crusade and end the attacks on the whole site, FINAL WARNING.

Fuckin' coward.

A bit stunned how selfish people can be.

Me too, Jack. And people in what has always been such a fine upstanding community.

Brad Barkley - 2015/12/17 15:01:30 UTC

Are you like this in your real life, going around shitting on any good thing people are trying to do, or are you just an online troll? Either way, no one needs your negativity. #ignore

Great job, Brad. You just figured out another way to not read the posts of someone with whom you disagree.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=33814
USHPA CGL insurance update

Dan Moser - 2016/01/12 00:21:52 UTC
Sandy, Utah

Here's a question that I hope can be answered:
Where can we find the raw data on the recent problematic insurance claims that have been made?

Same place you can find all the raw data on u$hPa hang gliding crash reports.

In particular, what are the details of the claims that directly resulted in the horrible insurance situation in which we now find ourselves?
I'm looking for the specific who, where, when and why of these problematic claims.

Perhaps I missed it, but the detailed facts about the problematic claims have not been discussed .. though perhaps they were, and were merely drowned out amid the many load pronouncements that the USHPA rank & file should just cough up more insurance money and quit bitchin' about it ..
More money for self-insurance may in fact be the best way out of this mess, but where are the facts that explain how we have ended up here?
Without knowing the factual root causes, how can we hope to determine the best solution going forward?

Just keep trusting Tim Herr and Mark G. Forbes. We've got a proven system that works and if something ain't broke...

Please don't reply with caustic opinions & counter-opinions.
I'm just asking for the detailed factual evidence on the problematic insurance claims that have directly resulted in the current situation ... slim chance, right?

A happy & high-flyin' 2016 to all!

Mark G. Forbes - 2016/01/12 00:40:14 UTC

The information you're asking for is confidential and may not be released. I'm sorry, but that's the advice of our attorney.

Our recreational hang glider pilot attorney who's never had anything but the interests of the recreational hang glider pilot in his heart and has skillfully guided the sport to the supreme evolutionary level at which we see it today.

He has explained why that is the case and I'm satisfied that the reasons justify keeping the details confidential.

Well if you're satisfied with something, Mark, it's a fuckin' no brainer that ALL OF US should be absolutely ECSTATIC with it - at a bare minimum.

What information we can release is aggregated, and is available on a link from the FAQ.

And, of course, is reflected in the SOPs, which are constantly being upgraded and refined as we become more and more knowledgeable about the risks to which our sport exposes third parties - really freak stuff that would have never occurred to anyone just trying to think things through or applying blindingly obvious common sense.

What I can tell you is that public disclosure of the intimate details of claims would not provide any insight into how to prevent future high-cost claims, and would instead give plaintiff's attorneys additional insight into how to structure future claims against us.

I'd like to think that I do a pretty good job of doing that over here. My credentials:

Tad Eareckson - 32674 - 2009/08/31 - H4 - 1991/12/17 - Santos Mendoza - AT FL PA VA AWCL CL FSL RLF TUR XC

Tim's:

Timothy Herr - 48274

If you need a capsule summary, here's what to know:

1) Don't damage spectators. Hit ANYTHING ELSE first. Don't allow spectators in close to gliders. Don't let them sit on the hill down-slope from launch and take pictures. Keep them back from gliders far enough that if a launch goes bad and a pilot spins into the hill, they don't hit a spectator. Keep them out of the LZ when gliders are landing.

2) Park vehicles away from launch and landing areas. Don't plan your landing for an easy walk to the car; land out in the middle of the field. If you're holding a spot landing contest, put the target well out in the middle of the landing area, not near spectators.

3) Leave plenty of clearance from power lines. Don't launch at sites with strong wind where there's a power line behind launch. Set up approaches well clear of power lines. Pre-walk LZs at a new site to check for overhead wires.

4) You're personally responsible for your own safety. Don't sue other pilots, instructors, landowners or USHPA if you get hurt. No matter what happens, no matter who did what, YOU are the pilot in command and ultimately responsible for your own safety.

5) Follow the USHPA recommendations for operating limits. Those rules exist for a reason, to improve your safety. They were developed from past experience and accidents.

6) Hang check! Make sure you're connected to the glider. Leg straps, carabiners locked, zippers closed. Don't unhook once you're in and checked, unless you take the harness off and restart the process. No walking around on launch in your harness....it's part of the glider.

1) Don't damage spectators. Hit ANYTHING ELSE first.

Got that, everybody? And if somebody runs up to help you hold your glider down and keep it from being blown into powerlines or slamming into other gliders, vehicles, kids, dogs and gets permanently demolished for his efforts then call him a clueless spectator and piss all over him for as many years as the incident remains in memory.

Don't allow spectators in close to gliders.

Yeah. Whenever a member of the public at a public launch site expresses interest in what you're doing and wants to learn as much as possible about it tell him to fuck off and clear out. We need to keep the future of the sport foremost in our considerations.

Don't let them sit on the hill down-slope from launch and take pictures.

And if someone does anyway and something interesting happens make sure to grab his camera and swallow the card.

Keep them back from gliders far enough that if a launch goes bad and a pilot spins into the hill, they don't hit a spectator. Keep them out of the LZ when gliders are landing.

Yeah. We're skimming in at up to 25 mph! Shit really happens fast at speeds like that.

2) Park vehicles away from launch and landing areas. Don't plan your landing for an easy walk to the car; land out in the middle of the field.

Aim for the old Frisbee dead centered and avoid the downwind third like the fuckin' plague.

If you're holding a spot landing contest...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=21088
What you wish you'd known then?

Doug Doerfler - 2011/03/02 05:24:44 UTC

Nothing creates carnage like declaring a spot landing contest.

...you should have your fuckin' rating permanently revoked.

...put the target well out in the middle of the landing area, not near spectators.

Yeah Mark. Spectators are being hit by gliders in the courses of spot landing contests.

3) Leave plenty of clearance from power lines.

Come in fifty feet over them - and never worry about the trees at the upwind end of the runway.

Don't launch at sites with strong wind where there's a power line behind launch.

Fuck no! You might hit the powerline behind launch. Or the cars in the parking lot! Or the gliders in the setup area! Or the kids and dogs playing in the staging area! Just play it safe and never launch in strong winds!

Set up approaches well clear of power lines. Pre-walk LZs at a new site to check for overhead wires.

'Specially when you're flying XC.

4) You're personally responsible for your own safety. Don't sue other pilots, instructors, landowners or USHPA if you get hurt. No matter what happens, no matter who did what, YOU are the pilot in command and ultimately responsible for your own safety.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3600
Weak link question

Jim Rooney - 2008/11/24 05:18:15 UTC

Well, I'm assuming there was some guff about the tug pilot's right of refusal?
Gee, didn't think we'd have to delve into "pilot in command"... I figured that one's pretty well understood in a flying community.

It's quite simple.
The tug is a certified aircraft... the glider is an unpowered ultralight vehicle. The tug pilot is the pilot in command. You are a passenger. You have the same rights and responsibilities as a skydiver.
It's a bitter pill I'm sure, but there you have it.

BTW, if you think I'm just spouting theory here, I've personally refused to tow a flight park owner over this very issue. I didn't want to clash, but I wasn't towing him. Yup, he wanted to tow with a doubled up weaklink. He eventually towed (behind me) with a single and sorry to disappoint any drama mongers, we're still friends. And lone gun crazy Rooney? Ten other tow pilots turned him down that day for the same reason.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=12443
AT regs

Mark G. Forbes - 2009/06/13 04:27:43 UTC

Action comes more swiftly when there's a clear threat to safety. I'm not seeing evidence (in the form of accidents or fatalities) that demonstrate that there's a major problem. There may be room for improvement, and that's certainly worth considering as we review and update our procedures, but I don't see the urgency of adopting these changes without careful consideration and the input of lots of other people involved in aerotowing. I'd want to hear what Steve Wendt, Jim Rooney, Malcolm Jones, Bobby Bailey, Steve Kroop, Dave Glover, John Kemmeries, Hungary Joe and others have to say as well. As your proposed language stands today, I would vote against it based on my concerns. That's not to say that you're wrong, but I haven't bought into your proposal yet myself, and I haven't heard other viewpoints sufficient to form an opinion that's favorable.

Suck my dick, Mark.

5) Follow the USHPA recommendations for operating limits.

Yeah...

Assisted Windy Cliff or Ramp Launch (AWCL)

Demonstrates ability to launch with wire assist in windy conditions from a precipitous cliff or ramp with strong lift at takeoff. Must show proper use of release signals and confident, aggressive launch.

We're taking that one off the books and making it a punishable offense to launch with wire assist in windy conditions from a precipitous cliff or ramp with strong lift at takeoff.

Those rules exist for a reason, to improve your safety.

Just like the Rooney Link.

They were developed from past experience and accidents.

- Just like the Rooney Link.
- Sure they were, Mark.

6) Hang check!

FUCK YEAH!

Make sure you're connected to the glider.

DAMN STRAIGHT!!! Before you get up on that ramp you wanna be one hundred percent absolutely POSITIVE you're connected to it!

Leg straps...

And no fuckin' way you can miss leg straps if you do a hang check! Checking leg loops is one of Joe Greblo's Four or Five Cs!

...carabiners locked...

Lock those carabiners! Three pilots last year fell out of their gliders and landed on expensive SUVs because their carabiners weren't locked.

...zippers closed.

Make sure those zippers are closed. I can't emphasize too much how dangerous it is for pilots and spectators alike when people launch with open zippers.

Don't unhook once you're in and checked...

Fuck no. Don't EVER unhook to adjust a camera, secure a batten, retrieve a cell phone. If you do you're a total idiot. You're probably gonna die and your glider's probably gonna short out some powerlines.

...unless you take the harness off and restart the process. No walking around on launch in your harness....it's part of the glider.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=13359
Today was a bad day!

Mike Bomstad - 2009/08/26 04:21:15 UTC

The harness is part of the aircraft... end of story.
(Just because it's easy to remove, does not mean it should be. Dont choose the path of least resistance)

Attach it to the wing, completing the aircraft.... then preflight the completed aircraft.
Buckle yourself into the cockpit and then your ready.

11-A12819
http://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8339/28924980016_2ba1d20ef7_o.png


http://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8253/28924975726_0d24a615c2_o.png
13-A14319

End of story!

Fuck you and Tim and the horses you rode in on.

And fuck you, Eric Hinrichs...

http://http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=21868
Don't Forget your Hang Check!

Eric Hinrichs - 2011/05/13 21:31:06 UTC

I went to Chelan for the Nationals in '95 as a free flyer. They were requiring everyone to use the Australian method, and you were also not allowed to carry a glider without being hooked in.

This was different for me, I hook in and do a full hang check just behind launch right before I go. I was also taught to do a hooked in check right before starting my run, lifting or letting the wind lift the glider to feel the tug of the leg loops.

So I used their method and I'm hooked in, carrying my glider to launch and someone yells "Dust devil!" Everyone around runs for their gliders (most of which are tied down) and I'm left standing alone in the middle of the butte with a huge monster wandering around. I heard later that it was well over three hundred feet tall, and some saw lightning at the top. After that it was clear that no one is going to decide for me or deride me for my own safety methods, someone else's could have easily got me killed.

...for allowing this asshole to spew this Aussie Methodist shit and get away with it.