The Bob Show

[NMERider]

I wonder whether Bob's brain hurts?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyFfmGf3b2Y

[Tad Eareckson]

I know mine does. At the end of yesterday's Christmas Bird Count (Maryland, Lower Kent) I must've spent at least a half hour rummaging through pockets, cases, bags, the trunk and glove compartment and under the seats trying to find the telescope lens caps. Finally found them on the ends of the telescope.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=5034
USHPA mailer re: donations for RRG

NMERider - 2015/12/19 06:48:54 UTC

According to my recollection of the evidence presented for Bob Kuczewski's expulsion from USHPA he gave testimony under oath for which he was not qualified to give by any stretch of the imagination.

This case was about a MIDAIR between two PARAGLIDERS.

- Tell me something about midairs/right-of-way that can't be easily understood and fully explained by a halfway intelligent ten year old kid - 'specially between two of the same flavor of bird in ridge lift.

- Midair/Right-Of-Way is a life and death issue - even more important than maintaining adequate airspeed 'cause it's not just oneself one can instantly eliminate from the gene pool. It's Two level stuff 'cause Twos can be expected to be flying in traffic. And apparently the Gliderport felt it was One level stuff 'cause they had a One soaring in traffic.

So tell me why any Hang or Para Two should NOT be qualified to give expert testimony on midair/right-of-way. Name some Threes, Fours, Fives who don't want and expect the Twos with whom they're sharing air to all be top notch experts on midair/right-of-way.

Mike Meier...

Gil Dodgen - 1995/01

All of this reminds me of a comment Mike Meier made when he was learning to fly sailplanes. He mentioned how easy it was to land a sailplane (with spoilers for glide-path control and wheels), and then said, "If other aircraft were as difficult to land as hang gliders no one would fly them."

...expects Hang Ones to have landing skills superior to the pilots of conventional fixed wing aircraft with decades of experience. Surely they'd all qualify to give expert testimony in any case involving a landing crash of any of those other birds.

And forget midair/right-of-way. Who are the great geniuses in these two moronic sports who understand the intricacies a hundred times better than the average jerk off the ramp or cart and have the ability to convey their unfathomable wisdom to ground pounding judges and jurors?

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22660
What can be learned from this "scooter" towing accident?

Mitch Shipley - 2011/01/31 15:22:59 UTC

Enjoy your posts, as always, and find your comments solid, based on hundreds of hours / tows of experience and backed up by a keen intellect/knowledge of the issues when it comes to most things in general and hang gliding AT/Towing in particular. Wanted to go on record in case anyone reading wanted to know one persons comments they should give weight to.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/25 04:55:25 UTC

Ditto dude.

It always amazes to hear know it all pilots arguing with the professional pilots.
I mean seriously, this is our job.
We do more tows in a day than they do in a month (year for most).

We *might* have an idea of how this stuff works.
They *might* do well to listen.
Not that they will, mind you... cu they *know*.

I mean seriously... ridgerodent's going to inform me as to what Kroop has to say on this? Seriously? Steve's a good friend of mine. I've worked at Quest with him. We've had this discussion ... IN PERSON. And many other ones that get misunderstood by the general public. It's laughable.

Don't even get me started on Tad. That obnoxious blow hard has gotten himself banned from every flying site that he used to visit... he doesn't fly anymore... because he has no where to fly. His theories were annoying at best and downright dangerous most of the time. Good riddance.

So, argue all you like.
I don't care.
I've been through all these arguments a million times... this is my job.
I could be more political about it, but screw it... I'm not in the mood to put up with tender sensibilities... Some weekend warrior isn't about to inform me about jack sh*t when it comes to towing. I've got thousands upon thousands of tows under my belt. I don't know everything, but I'll wager the house that I've got it sussed a bit better than an armchair warrior.

Where are these masters of the arts posting and helping all of us muppets to get on the right tracks?

Name some glider people with solid understandings of the following terms:
- hook-in check
- weak link
- bridle
- release
- second class lever
- power failure
- angle of attack
- suspension spreader
- runway
- First Amendment

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hhpa/message/11400
Question

Zack C - 2010/11/07 05:40:14 UTC

So even the people you want me to listen to you don't agree with 100%. Is there /anyone/ that agrees with you completely? Do you realize how difficult what you're asking me to do is? You're asking me, a not particularly experienced H3, to discard most of what I've been taught about weak links and the convention that has been accepted at pretty much all aerotow flight parks and competitions and trade it for a practice that very few are endorsing. It's very hard for me to believe that the convention is the convention only because everyone following it is an idiot. I'm going to try to get the other side of the story from those who advocate the 130 lb loops.

Zack C - 2010/12/09 04:21:04 UTC

I think you've got me checkmated. No matter what I say you have a response and at this point I've got nothing left...I have no choice but to accept your position. I've seen so much fallacy from the people that push the universal 130 lb loop that I no longer doubt there isn't a good reason we use them. My hope for weaker links was aborting lockouts in the event of a release failure, but my thinking now is that if a lockout occurs low enough to end in a ground impact, it's likely this will occur before tension increases enough to break a 130 lb loop, and 130 lb loops are at risk of breaking at dangerous times. So yeah, having a better release is a much better idea.

Zack C - 2010/12/13 04:58:15 UTC

I had a very different mindset too back then and trusted the people that made my equipment. Since then I've realized (largely due to this discussion) that while I can certainly consider the advice of others, I can't trust anyone in this sport but myself.

Zack C - 2012/06/02 02:20:45 UTC

I just cannot fathom how our sport can be so screwed up.

This sport hunts down and destroys competence when and wherever it starts rearing its ugly head and promotes to the hilt everything it possibly can from the bottom end of the spectrum.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=2190
Suicide of the USHPA

Brian Scharp - 2015/12/21 18:45:42 UTC

Oops.
http://www.kitestrings.org/post8831.html#p8831

Rick Masters - 2015/12/22 03:37:29 UTC

I see.

For something new and different.

So Kelly was not John.

Not that John.

Kelly's membership ran out in June.

And his record was shredded within hours of impact and a few seconds after we figured out who it had to be and archived it.

When your membership dues are late, you are expunged from the active list.

Tad Eareckson - Maryland - 32674 - H4 - 1991/12/17 - Santos Mendoza - AT FL PA VA AWCL CL FSL RLF TUR XC - Exp: 2009/08/31

Ralph Buxton - Nags Head - 7678 - H3 - 1977/03/25 - John Harris - FL AWCL CL TUR - Exp: 1999/07/31

I wouldn't think that was unusual.

Asshole.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=5044
The insurance problem

Ken Andrews - 2015/12/22 23:00:11 UTC
Site Admin - Pasadena

Mark Forbes has posted lots of excellent information about insurance and the RRG on the USHPA website.

Yeah, if you're gonna publish pure unadulterated crap on core hang gliding issues it's good to balance things out a bit with lots of excellent information about insurance and the RRG on the USHPA website.

If you haven't read it, I'll encourage you to visit the "Information Center and FAQ" at:
https://www.ushpa.aero/freeflightforever.asp
It's also well worth logging in to the Members area and clicking on the Insurance tab.

Also click into the fatality reports section. Lotsa victims in recent years who suffered fatal injuries.

Here, I've attempted to summarize some of that information, and hopefully this provides answers to some of the questions that have been raised on this forum.

Fuckin' cesspool.

To take the story from the beginning...

...a bunch o' dickhead surfer dude types thought it would be fun to reinvent aviation without regard to bothersome laws of physics.

...we all know that there are real risks in hang gliding, and so the responsible pilot, and instructor, and flight school, and landowner, should have insurance.

'Specially seeing as how any and all efforts to mitigate and eliminate the real risks are dealt with by u$hPa and its industry shits with the most vicious retaliation they're able to muster.

As a service to the sport, USHPA...

...Board members and operatives will all be soaking themselves in gasoline and lighting matches.

...has arranged for such insurance policies. We get liability insurance by being USHPA pilot members, as do instructors by being Rogallo members; flying sites get insurance by being USHPA chapters, and landowners do by being listed as an additional site by a chapter.

Great. No problem then.

I've gradually learned that all hang gliding insurance, whatever retail insurance agency has sold it, has ultimately been backed by Lloyds of London, which is the source of most of the specialist insurance in the world. Unfortunately, there have been enough hang gliding and paragliding lawsuits in the last couple years that Lloyds has decided to stop insuring these sports, no matter what, at any price.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25321
Stop the Stupids at the USHPA BOD meeting

Mark G. Forbes - 2011/09/29 02:26:23 UTC

We can establish rules which we think will improve pilot safety, but our attorney is right. USHPA is not in the business of keeping pilots "safe" and it can't be. Stepping into that morass is a recipe for extinction of our association.

That means it will be impossible to buy hang gliding insurance after March 1. Individual pilots might accept the risk and fly without liability insurance, but most instructors and flying sites can't do that.

Hell, just start your own insurance company. You'll undoubtedly be able to run it much better than Lloyds of London could ever manage at any cost.

For these to survive, our only option is to start our own insurance company, known as a Risk Retention Group, or RRG. To do so, we need to find enough money to get it started, and that's estimated to be $2 million. After that, if we fly safely and there aren't many lawsuits...

...then the RRG should make a profit.

I definitely want a piece of that. If people keep doing the same things over and over it's virtually inevitable that they'll soon achieve much better results.

That profit will be used first to stabilize the RRG's accounts, and then to pay back its debts, and eventually to lower membership dues again.

See!

If we don't fly safely and those lawsuits do happen, then the RRG goes bankrupt, and we're done.

So never do a hook-in check to give yourself a false sense of security, stay upright with your hands on the control tubes as much as possible, get that flare timing perfected, and always use extra safe weak links.

An RRG is an independent company, owned by its investors. Two of those investors will be USHPA and the Foundation for Free Flight. Other investors will include some of the biggest flight schools, and the PASA (Professional Air Sports Association). Even though USHPA and the Foundation for Free Flight are investing every nickel they have, it still doesn't add to $2M, so more needs to be done.

The easiest way to help out is to donate to USHPA, and they will invest that money in the RRG. USHPA has said that if you wish, they will return donations if they fail to raise enough money to establish the RRG. Contrary to what Bob Kuczewski has said, I don't believe that SHGA can offer any greater protection than that, so there's every reason to donate directly to USHPA. For those who have an aversion to USHPA, I presume one could also donate to the Foundation for Free Flight (or to PASA, though I know very little about that organization) and explain that the donation is to support the RRG.

Meaning u$hPa. But don't worry, people of varying ages... If you just have your money laundered a bit you won't really be donating anything to u$hPa.

Donations are tax deductible. In a sense, this means that when you donate, the government does too!

The rare individual may even choose to be an investor.

Go for it.

This would give some direct control over the RRG, but it's a high-risk investment, and so qualifying to be an investor isn't easy. It's high-risk, meaning that one could lose everything invested at any time without warning.

Yeah, but we're all gonna be flying a lot more safely. So what are the odds.

We also know that the world's experts (i.e. Lloyds) have concluded that it's a bad investment.

Hopefully after a little help from Kite Strings.

To protect people from unknowingly making a bad investment, government regulations require the RRG owners to be "accredited investors". An individual is defined to be an accredited investor if he has over $1M in personal assets in addition to his house, or has an annual income over $200K; and there are similar sorts of requirements for corporations and trusts. If you're still reading, contact Martin Palmaz in the USHPA office, or me, for more information.

You're both great guys. I'll just flip a coin.

--

Please note that this post doesn't include the word "Torrey" in it anywhere.

Really? I thought I just saw it in the preceding sentence.

I would be grateful if others would be willing to keep this thread that way.

I'm sure you would. Reminds me of the way the term "hook-in check" is included nowhere in:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW8qZESnFvQ
Pre Flight Safety for Hang Gliding - Revision

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=5044
The insurance problem

Bob Kuczewski - 2015/12/22 23:21:53 UTC

So you're saying that people can "donate" - which means they completely lose all the money they give and they have no control over how it's managed, but they can't "invest" - which means that they might be able to share in both profit and control?

And this is supposed to be a good thing for Sylmar pilots to do?

RRG "scheme" seems like a better description all the time.

Bob Kuczewski - 2015/12/22 23:36:28 UTC

I'm sorry to post twice, but I'm flabbergasted by the audacity of this proposal.

USHPA is effectively setting up a scheme where individual pilots contribute to a business venture owned and controlled by USHPA and the large schools. And they're setting it up in such a way that only the richest commercial entities can benefit as investors? And the average "Joe Pilot" just gets to "donate"?

Is that what you're telling us Ken?

Don't worry too much, Bob. I'm gonna do what I can to make sure that nobody benefits from this scheme. Nobody in hang gliding anyway.

Bob Kuczewski - 2015/12/23 00:30:29 UTC

Cooperatives and other undiscussed options

I just called one of my lawyers (a year ago I had no lawyers, today I've got about half a dozen on speed dial), and he said he wasn't an expert on RRGs (yet), but in his own practice he participates in an insurance cooperative. The cooperative is owned by the members themselves and he has a vote on how it's run.

Why aren't we hearing those options from USHPA? Possibly because that would give power to the pilots and take it from USHPA and their cronies?

Again, please don't throw any money at this problem until all these options have been explored. If you want to say you've given something, then give it to Sylmar to hold until all options have been discussed. USHPA's only giving you the choice they want you to have.

Steve Murillo - 2015/12/24 19:51:49 UTC
Manhattan Beach

insurance

As for me, I'm with Ken. I've donated $200 and will probably do more before March 1, 2016.

Thank you, Steve. I'll be doing what I can to make sure it goes to good causes.

mqgicpotato - 2015/12/25 07:17:20 UTC

Ken, thanks for posting this. We really need to keep sites insured not just for satisfying landowners, but also cities. Best example is dockweiler beach, now that insurance is gone, the city will take away our special use permit for the site. On top of this, USHPA has great political leverage...

The best. Quite remarkable for an association that no insurance company will touch with a ten foot pole for any price.

...and gathers all of us with similar interests to keep our sport active and legitimate.

Fuck "us" - douchebag.

I know USHPA has its flaws, but this can be worked out once we save our butts from losing our places to fly.

No problem. I'll be over here holding my breath.

As we all know, and most of the times don't like, politics and insurance seem to go hand in hand.

Bob Kuczewski - 2015/12/25 07:57:00 UTC

Rational Discussions?

I was down at the courthouse today, and I heard through the grapevine that there may be two more lawsuits in the pipeline through your friends at Torrey. One was from a tandem incident in April and the other was just a few weeks ago.

I don't know the details on them, and they may turn out to be rumors, but can anyone tell me what USHPA has done to stop the bleeding of insurance money at Torrey?

What about the FOCUSED PILOT wristbands?

Now that you're all sending your own money to cover the screw ups at Torrey, do you think USHPA has done a good job of overseeing their operation? Do you think your money will give USHPA any incentive to fix what they haven't fixed in all these years?

Decades.

Have you ever heard the term "enabler"?

Again, I am not against pilots raising a fund to put towards insurance - even through USHPA. But not one person has given any reason why that money shouldn't first be vested in your local club to be given to USHPA ONLY after they've proven to your club's satisfaction that they're not going to squander it by ignoring the problems that have caused the lawsuits.

That's not an unreasonable question, and the fact that it's being dodged should be raising red flags.

Grebloville IS a red flag.

Don - 2015/12/26 01:48:37 UTC

"The Word"

Well Ken, you request to keep "The Word" out of this thread lasted exactly 44 hours and 57 minutes.

Awww... Poor Ken. He said he'd be grateful if others would be willing to not include the word "Torrey" in anywhere in this thread on one other wasn't. I really hate it when somebody starts a thread and can't control what respondents write. Asshole.

Bob Kuczewski - 2015/12/26 17:53:21 UTC

Re: "The Word"

Discussing the insurance problem without the word "Torrey" is like discussing World War II without the word "Germany".

How 'bout

http://www.ushpa.aero/advisory.asp?id=1
USHPA - Safety Advisory #1

USHGA - 2006/03/15

Safety Notice

HG Tandem Aerotow Operations

Should the tandem glider become unattached from the tug during this maneuver, the nose high attitude of the tandem glider attained while doing this will cause a very abrupt stall which will result in a much greater altitude loss than one would expect (possibly more than 750 feet). The most extreme cases may result in structural failure of the glider.

without mentioning "front end weak link"?

Pilots are being asked to "donate" to a fund that will be "owned" and controlled by a few large entities. I haven't seen Mark Forbes give us a breakdown of what percentage ownership the Torrey concessionaire will have over the insurance at Sylmar. Maybe someone should ask that question. Maybe someone should also ask what percentage of the claims have come from these entities.

The mad rush to "save hang gliding" is creating some strange bedfellows. Sylmar should be asking some tough questions before jumping into the sack with the Torrey crowd.

Bob Kuczewski - 2015/12/26 19:00:54 UTC

Translation:

The shrewd people are investing.
The sheeple are donating.

What's the difference between investing and donating? It's the difference between the Green Bay Packers and the Los Angeles Rams.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=5044
The insurance problem

NMERider - 2015/12/26 19:31:34 UTC

Bob,

The following two accidents created huge losses to our insurers and played a significant if not decisive role in our loss of insurance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3FH7YoAydo


http://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5788/23461251751_e98b9c7500_o.png

Only that first one was an accident, Jonathan. The second was child murder.

You have a lot of energy...

http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=3840
[TIL] About Tad Eareckson

Bob Kuczewski - 2013/03/10 18:20:34 UTC

Having said all of that, I have to add that Tad has an incredible amount of energy, and I think it would be great if the sport of hang gliding could figure out how to harness it.

...and you write very well.

Yeah Jonathan. All three of us write pretty well. That's one of the reasons we're talking to each other to various extents.

If you really want to help the sport of hang gliding then put your energy and abilities into spreading the word about third-party safety.

How 'bout we start with first party...

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8143/7462005802_bbc0ac66ac_o.jpg


...and work our way down?

Both accidents were easily avoidable with just a modicum of common sense and care yet the pilots were negligent.

'Specially the first one. Just set your glider up in the morning and stake it down before things start cooking and wait until the evening to sled down to the primary.

So where's the "PILOT" in the first one? Nobody's hooked in, in a harness, off the ground; there's no launch in sight of the cameras... There's no aviation involved. This is a ground handling / ground crew exercise.

The reality is that third-party safety is paramount. Better to have it both ways but if we want to retain our launch and landing privileges then everything we do must revolve around avoiding injury to other people above all and to their property secondarily.

1. So give me some real life examples in which we do things differently to mitigate risk to other people versus property? We keep our gliders under control and when they're not it's virtually always just a matter of what's available for them to slam into. When Jesse Fulkersin came in on final with plenty of speed and corrected when he got popped by a thermal he spun into the ground and killed himself. If there'd been an SUV or kid in the path the glider took...

2. And what's Lloyds paying closer attention to? Eight hundred dollar dent in an SUV or the ten "pilots" we killed this year? If I were Lloyds I'd be looking at the fatalities total 'cause that's a pretty good barometer of just how competent we can be expected to be with respect to not slamming into SUVs and mowing down people in the vicinities of launches and LZs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3FH7YoAydo
2010.07.03 Chelan Dust Devil Hits Spectator

Thermal Slut - 2015/12/16

34% of USHPA's General Liability Claims Payouts were for Glider Hits Spectator.
Please keep your gliders securely tied down at sites known for dust devils!
Please keep spectators out of harm's way!

Pure unadulterated BULLSHIT. The guy who got demolished in that one was a "SPECTATOR" like the kid who got snuffed in the other one was a tandem "STUDENT". This is a despicable lie that's getting repeated thousands of times in an effort to make it become truth. That guy was part of four man crew trying to keep that glider under control and from becoming a potentially lethal missile.

And rewind the tape and put the volunteer crewman on the nose and the pilot/owner on the starboard wing. Are the results gonna look significantly different? And before you answer that I've seen some astoundingly clueless Three level crewman / ground handlers. Zilch understanding of concepts like wind direction, level, trim, where to be...

The outcome on this one was really bad but we don't know for certain whether or not there might have been a worse outcome if there the glider had been left to its fate. Think powerlines, electrocution, wildfire. And until the u$hPa pigfuckers put in print and enforce an SOP requiring its pilots to clear themselves and all other personnel from the proximity of any glider in the potential path of an approaching dust devil...

And by the way... There's never been anywhere on the planet an SOP, guideline, recommendation for dealing with that situation. And it WAS addressed with TOTAL common sense. And the subsequent ones like it that we haven't heard about because there were no injuries and was no equipment or property damages were addressed exactly the same way.

Also... This Chelan dust devil incident is total bullshit anyway. It was a FREAK ACCIDENT. It's never happened before in the history of hang gliding and will likely never happen again in our lifetimes. And there's no defense against it anyway. We need to be looking at the shit that's happening all the fuckin' time - almost always without any or significant relevant consequences - that we've known how to deal with since the beginning of time and don't/won't.

Another point... Ideally Lloyds would LIKE to sell hang gliding insurance and hang gliding would like to be able to buy it. If this incident has been a significant factor in the breakdown (and it has) it's because both parties KNOW there's no possible fix for it. And if the Arys Moorhead incident has been a significant factor in the breakdown (and it has) it's because Lloyds knows bloody well that the fixes for all the relevant issues are brain dead easy and have been around since the beginning of time and hang gliding has been refusing to implement them for decades. And Master rated "pilot" my ass.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=5044
The insurance problem

Bob Kuczewski - 2015/12/26 21:23:28 UTC

NMERider - 2015/12/26 19:31:34 UTC

You have a lot of energy and you write very well.

It's a safe bet that's why USHPA expelled me.

Yeah, look at the pattern there, Bob. And compare/contrast...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=26302
HIGHER EDUCATION ?

michael170 - 2012/06/06 03:14:26 UTC

Did anyone here bother to read Drs. Lisa Colletti and Tracy Tillman's thirteen page idiotic article in the June issue of USHPA's worthless magazine?

NMERider - 2012/06/06 03:25:09 UTC

You are being much too complimentary IMHO. I got so nauseated reading it I had to take a breather. Do you mean to tell me they wrote an article that wasn't insipid and self-congratulatory to the extreme? I've found their entire series on aerotowing to come off rather poorly to say the least. A sad waste of such exalted and highly qualified medical professionals. How do I know this? Well they won't stop patting each other on the back about how great they both are. Pardon me while I puke.

If you really want to help the sport of hang gliding then put your energy and abilities into spreading the word about third-party safety.

In early 2010 I reported an out-of-control paragliding student crashing into parked hang gliders at Torrey. I reported it to USHPA. I also reported that the USHPA instructor TOLD the student NOT to tell me (a current USHPA Regional Director) who his instructor was. This was witnessed and documented on hanggliding.org. If my report to USHPA had been handled properly, and if USHPA had implemented the oversight that I'd been requesting for years, the Hamby accident in the summer of 2011 might have been averted.

So don't tell me where to put my energies. I've walked the walk on that score.

You didn't do shit about the certifiably insane and blatantly illegal standard aerotow weak link death and destruction that had been going on for decades - before or after the Zack Marzec inconvenience fatality.

My testimony in the Hamby case was powerful because it was documented truth. That one story right there was enough to show a pattern of intentional gross negligence and attempted cover-up by the Torrey concessionaire and USHPA.

http://www.ushpa.aero/safety.asp
USHPA - Safety Articles

Fatality Reports
2013/02/02 - Zack Marzec

Zack Marzec (27), an H-4 Pilot with Aero Tow and Tandem Aero Tow proficiency as well as Advanced Instructor and Tandem Instructor appointments, and a USHPA member since 2009, suffered fatal injuries when when his glider tumbled during an aero tow launch. During the launch, at an altitude of 150 AGL, the pilot encountered an invisible bullet thermal which pitched the nose up, causing the weak link to break. Upon the breakage of the weak link, the glider whip stalled and then tumbled twice. The pilot and glider's leading edge hit the ground simultaneously. The pilot was utilizing his own pro-tow style tow harness, this own high performance glider with VG on, and was not wearing a full face helmet.

What was USHPA's response to the large (they won't tell us how large) settlement in the Hamby case? Was it to finally admit that they needed better oversight at Torrey? Or was it to expel the most prominent person calling for the oversight needed to stop these accidents?

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=16265
weaklinks

Kinsley Sykes - 2010/03/18 19:42:19 UTC

In the old threads there was a lot of info from a guy named Tad. Tad had a very strong opinion on weak link strength and it was a lot higher than most folks care for. I'd focus carefully on what folks who tow a lot have to say. Or Jim Rooney who is an excellent tug pilot. I tow with the "park provided" weak links. I think they are 130 pound Greenspot.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Kinsley Sykes - 2011/08/31 11:35:36 UTC

Well actually he didn't. But if you don't want to listen to the folks that actually know what they are talking about, go ahead.
Feel free to go the the tow park that Tad runs...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec

Kinsley Sykes - 2013/02/11 17:46:12 UTC

Because this has been beaten to death - google Tad Eareckson and try to read the mind-numbing BS. Most of the folks who have been towing for decades have worked this stuff out.

The reason for the vehemence of the response is they pile on to any AT accident, with no knowledge of the cause, and trot out the, if only he had a strong weaklink, nothing would have happened.

It's fine to want to work on better solutions to make us all safer by improving technology, it's ugly and inhuman to use the death of a really nice guy to advance your point... in case it wasn't obvious I agree with Bart and Jim, and no it's not a lack of english comprehension - he said there would have been a different outcome with a stronger weaklink.

With regard to the Chelan and Jean Lake cases, I don't know the amount of any settlement at Chelan, but I don't believe the Jean Lake case has been settled yet.

Finally, the Chelan video states: "34% of USHPA's General Liability Claims Payouts were for Glider Hits Spectator."

Was that guy a "Spectator", Bob? If his brain hadn't been permanently mushed in that one just how do you think he'd feel about the hang gliding "community" in virtual lockstep dismissing him as a (clueless) spectator?

What was the other 66%? How much of that was the Torrey settlement this spring? Doesn't that particular settlement coincide with the loss of insurance more than any other event?

How 'bout Jean Lake? Shannon Hamby was about a One on the Richter scale. Jean Lake was about a Nine.

And yet we're not allowed to use the "T" word in discussing or solving this problem? No, just give money in the misguided belief that the people who created the problem will solve it for you if you pay them enough.

Bob Kuczewski - 2015/12/26 21:41:22 UTC

Documentation

Here's the documentation of Jason's post from:
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=15666
Where to find incident report form?

Jason Boehm - 2010/02/08 15:12:55 UTC

Witnessed an Incident yesterday- don't see the form on the USHPA website- and knowing Torrey---this will never be reported

Sunday Feb 7
While standing in the landing area talking to a friend, I hear him say "whats this guy doing"

I look towards the ridge to see a paraglider pilot flying directly downwind low over the the PG set up area. The pilot then intiates a right hand turn, impacting two stationary hanggliders, and crashing between several others.

After checking to see if everyone was ok and inspecting the gliders for damage(one of them had a bent washout tube) Bob, the local RD, asks the pilot who his instructor was and if he was on radio. Brad Geary immediately tells the pilot to "don’t even talk"

An immediate gag order was in place, no one knows who this pilot was, or who his instructor was. The pilot WAS on radio as evidenced by the radio strapped to his chest. And that he carried with him in his hand for close to 15 minutes afterward

A few possible outcomes
1- the pilot crashes into something hard and goes to the hospital
2- a hg pilot on landing approach is cut off by this "wrong way driver" crashes and goes to the hospital
3- the pilot crashes into the parking lot damaging someone's car

Don't he write well!

That was a year and a half in advance of Shannon Hamby's very similar collision which the insurance company paid out this spring. The "Brad Geary" mentioned here is the same PG tandem pilot who happened to catch the video of Shannon...

Shannon Hammy? Or a different Shannon?

...Hamby's...

Oh. Same one. Pray continue.

...collision and then went on to lie about it - on video - and then participate in PG to PG collision stunts...

PG to PG "collision" "stunts", Bob?

collision - noun - an instance of one moving object or person striking violently against another

stunt - noun - an action displaying spectacular skill and daring.

1. Bull fucking shit. You show me anything that remotely resembles either a violent strike or an action displaying spectacular skill and daring. You show me one punctuation mark of a u$hPa SOP or FAA regulation (other, of course, than the universal pretense that these tandem rides are "instructional") that was being violated or slightly bent in the course of those "collision stunts". Those guys were ballet dancers and what they were doing was one helluva lot less likely to result in injury than a helluva lot that goes on in actual ballet dancing.

2. How 'bout you, Bob? When you went up for your ride with Malcolm Jones how well in compliance with u$hPa SOPs and FAA aerotow regulations were you two assholes? Did your glider end weak link meet the minimum strength mandated for that tandem glider? Did the front end crap strength exceed what you had at the back? Were your releases capable of handling twice weak link?

And did Brad and Max lie to the kids and their parent/guardian the way Malcolm's been lying to every single passenger he's taken up and student he's put up...

http://www.wallaby.com/aerotow_primer.php
Aerotow Primer for Experienced Pilots

A weak link connects the V-pull to the release, providing a safe limit on the tow force. If you fail to maintain the correct tow position (centered, with the wheels of the tug on the horizon), the weak link will break before you can get into too much trouble.

Remember: it is almost impossible to stall under aerotow. The induced thrust vector makes the glider trim at a higher attitude. It is OK to push way out; you will climb, not stall.

...over the course of the past eighteen years?

...with Torrey concessionaire's son (Max Marine) ... while both carrying child passengers.

So what with all your concern about passengers of varying ages and collision stunts I guess your afternoons and weekends are pretty tied up picketing kids' football practices and games, huh Bob? ACTUAL and INTENTIONAL violent collisions INTENDED to cause damage between double digits worth kids every play of every practice and game? Or are you only concerned with the safety and wellbeing of people of varying ages when you think you can get away with exploiting them to your political advantage?

How much worse does it have to get Jonathan?

So Jonathan?

http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=5034
USHPA mailer re: donations for RRG

NMERider - 2015/12/19 06:48:54 UTC

In effect, Bob betrayed over 9000 UHSPA members in furtherance of his personal spat against the Jebb family and in the process helped place the sports of hang gliding and paragliding in permanent jeopardy.

You're one of the u$hPa Establishment faction saying that Bob's totally out of line in his conflict with Torrey. So where's your defense of them when they're actually 99.9 percent in the right and Bob's 100.00 percent full o' shit?

I've called them "ultra corrupt dangerous scum" - which they are - so how come I've gotta be the only guy inside the entire hang/para gliding universe who's defending them on the issues documented in that video?

If you maintain your right to remain silent I can only conclude that you're in total alignment with Bob on these issues. You agree with Bob that these were PG to PG collision stunts seriously endangering both child passengers and that Brad (but, strangely, not Max) totally deserved to have his tandem and instructor tickets permanently shredded.

And yet who did USHPA expel as an outcome of this fiasco?

Too bad they couldn't help you learn to get along with other pilots and figure out how to harness your energy.

How do you expect to get a handle on safety when you're shooting the messengers who are reporting the problems?

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1081
Platform towing /risk mitigation / accident

Sam Kellner - 2012/07/03 02:25:58 UTC

No, you don't get an accident report.

The Lloyd's investors are smart enough to steer clear of backing this kind of irresponsible management, so USHPA is trying to pull the wool over your eyes.

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=463
Davis Straub's "Oz Report" Conflict of Interest

Bob Kuczewski - 2011/03/09 02:33:49 UTC

This is going to sound cold, but I believe people have a right to make their own choices. I don't want a "nanny state" where anyone is telling me what I can and can't do ... for my own good. The sport of hang gliding would surely not exist if that thinking were carried to its logical extreme. There's something bred into all living things that urges them toward taking some degree of risk in their lives. Those who want to forbid that risk are essentially snuffing out the human spirit itself. I can't support that. I do support information. I support good information. I support exposing bad information. But I don't support dictating what anyone can or can't do. The fundamental principle of economics (and evolution) is two words: "people choose".

USHPA could very quickly make a U-turn on the situation at Torrey and demonstrate that they're serious about fixing these problems.

They permanently shredded Brad's tandem and instructor tickets for participating in PG to PG collision stunts while both carrying a child passenger. Surely that's gotta count for something.

Why haven't they done the one thing that would prove they're serious?

Mandate towing with more Infallible Weak Links?

Because they're not.

Bob Kuczewski - 2015/12/26 22:01:30 UTC

One more factiod ...

What's a "factiod", Bob?

Here's another little factoid for the "lets throw money at USHPA" crowd...

I have it on pretty good authority that David Jebb tried to go behind Joe Greblo's back to take over control of Dockweiler beach many years ago.

Quess he didn't get very far. Joe's always been pretty good at covering his backside.

Do we want the Jebb's or "Air California Adventure" to be controlling owners in the RRG that insures all of our pilots and all of our sites throughout the United States?

Why isn't USHPA providing a clear list of who will own and control the pilot of money they're asking you to give them?

Who is this pilot of money and how can I get to be a better friend to him?
---
Attention:

Missed a chunk of text and posted things out of sequence. Now fixed. Jump back up to:
http://www.kitestrings.org/post8858.html#p8858
in order to make sure you've got the whole story.

(I had things properly shuffled within about a minute of making this post and no humans were viewing during the interval.)

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=5053
Writing Analysis of BobK 12/13 - 12/26 [infotainment]

Orion Price - 2015/12/27 04:40:05 UTC

Here is some interesting information about Bob's posts. The posts themselves and not the content.
From 12/13 until the 12/26 2015:
5 consecutive posts. I think it's a new record! Congrats Bob!

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3600
Weak link question

Jim Rooney - 2008/12/10 06:12:27 UTC

Awe Brian.... we were taking bets on how long Tad would talk to himself if we all ignored him.
Well, that ends it... 10 unanswered posts is the current record.
I'm not outting the winner... perhaps he'll give it an other go.

See the pattern there, Bob? (And by the way... The most consecutive posts you have in the referenced thread/page is THREE - but so the fuck what.)

Orion Price - 2015/12/28 05:15:15 UTC

He doesn't fly here, yet dominates our forum. I don't see what's wrong with kitestrings.org. It seems the place for weirdos whom used to fly go to die.

Can't handle grade school level English grammar much better than counting through the lower single digit range, can ya OP?

Bob Kuczewski - 2015/12/28 06:05:56 UTC

Flying? Flying?

Hi OP. I'm just one spokesman for an idea that USHPA is trying to sweep under the carpet. The idea is that clubs pool their money locally to purchase (or participate in) insurance on their own terms. Why are you so desperately against that idea?

As far as flying at Sylmar, I've flown there on and off for the last 10 years. I believe one of the things USHPA hoped to accomplish with their expulsion was to attempt to separate me from the pilot community by keeping me from flying. What other reason was there to expel me? Really, what other reason did they have?

And while we're on that topic, it's interesting that one of the female Directors...

Tiki?

...had a very insightful observation during my hearing. She basically asked if expelling me would keep me from doing any of the things they didn't like (speaking to the San Diego City Council, asserting my rights to use our public park, speaking to the press, posting on forums, starting the US Hawks, etc.). The flip side of her question was whether I had committed any flying violations worthy of removing my flying. Mark Forbes essentially answered those questions with "Weeelllll ... no ... but we want to expel him anyway". Forbes led the charge and pushed it through. That's the kind of "leadership" you have at the helm of this RRG.

And thanks bigtime, Bob, for allowing OP to get away with characterizing Kite Strings as "the place for weirdos whom used to fly go to die". Really appreciate the reciprocal covering fire.

Bob Kuczewski - 2015/12/28 06:21:10 UTC

But one of the philosophies that I've adopted in life is to do what I think is right regardless of whether it seems popular or not.

Yeah, right.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=5053
Writing Analysis of BobK 12/13 - 12/26 [infotainment]

Bob Kuczewski - 2015/12/28 06:21:10 UTC

Sadly, OP, I do fear that you are right. I suspect that USHPA has already gotten the commitments from the big schools to pony up whatever it takes in the end. I suspect that part of the deal was that USHPA would try to milk the members for everything they've got first to save a few bucks for their buddies.

So I do think this RRG is going to go through, and I do think this will only tighten the control that certain entities have over the sport.

But one of the philosophies that I've adopted in life is to do what I think is right regardless of whether it seems popular or not. It's certainly the road less travelled, and it's a bumpy road at that.

I've sent you a PM inviting a phone call.

Good move, Bob. A good honest phone conversation between two gentlemen such as yourselves should go a long ways to clear up misunderstandings and get things on the right track.

I'd be happy to talk to you any time.

Bob Kuczewski - 2015/12/29 07:56:40 UTC

Re: Forum Capabilities Request

Tad,

When we spoke on the phone, it was my understanding that you felt it would be helpful if I changed your status to give you some limited ability to log into the forum. I wrote to you in good faith to ask what you needed to do so I could figure out a set of permissions that would help you do the things you wanted to do within the limitations that we've had in place. I am now sorry to have offered it because you now seem more enraged than before.

I once said something to the effect of people not wanting to deal with you because you're like a mad dog that will bite anyone. You might consider this latest exchange in that context.

There's no need to write back or call. I had hoped that we might be able to be supportive of our mutual goals while setting aside those where we differ. That seems to be impossible, and I'm now sorry that I offered it.

I might even try to make it to Sylmar sometime soon ... I've been needing a good lynching.

Barton - 2015/12/28 06:34:37 UTC

Orion Price - 2015/12/28 05:15:15 UTC

It seems the place for weirdos whom used to fly go to die.

You callin me a weirdo, OP...... You know I still fly, right. Even at Torrey, just ask BLM, he saw me there a few weeks ago.

Barton Davidson - California - 59216 - H5 - 2008/07/09 - Brad Hall - AT AWCL CL FSL RLF TUR

?

Bob Kuczewski - 2015/12/28 06:47:03 UTC

Hi Barton.

I wanted to step up onto the grass to shake your hand, but my expulsion from USHPA prohibits even that.

I wouldn't take two seconds to dial 911 to prevent any of these Grebloville motherfucker from bleeding and/or burning to death.

I try not to take all of this personally...

Too bad, Bob. 'Cause all this shit is EXTREMELY personal.

...but I am surprised that a free spirit such as yourself would be backing the expulsion of pilots without due process (no witnesses, no defense representation, no references to any rules broken, etc.). I guess politics does make strange bedfellows.

Barton - 2015/12/28 07:45:23 UTC

Robert, it is sad to think you have taken this path you are on. As much I do not agree with what the USHPA did to your flying privileges for the reasons cited, it was not like you didn’t see "the train" coming your way, you chose the path you are on.

I've seen you lie through your teeth about flying beyond the boundaries as stated in the rules at Torrey, i.e flying north of the bathtub, regret I didn't call you on it the day Robin was drillin you for that, so I know you are not a saint, by any stretch of the imagination. I just didn't want to get involved in your delusional perception that you were above the rules of authorized airspace. If I only was flying with a camera that day, could I show you, you were way over the line....

Too bad you weren't flying with a camera that day, Barton.

Put your energies into something positive, bring constructive ideas to the table n be willing to find compromise in the group, if you have any hope that you will be allowed to re-join the flock.

Compromise in the group? NO PROBLEM!

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=929
Training Manual Comments / Contribution

Bob Kuczewski - 2012/01/07 17:59:55 UTC

I'm looking for people who can work together to build an on-line training manual for hang gliding. Yes, that does require a certain amount of agreeability and willingness to compromise. The only Training Manual that Tad can build is the one where he has 100% control.

Compromise is Bob's middle name. (As long as it's somebody else doing the compromising.)

Collectively we have heard enough about the atrocities you have been exposed to...

Collectively, list the individuals who authorized you to speak on their behalf, motherfucker. (Recognize the tactic, Bob?)

...most of us pilots that fly, want to fly. You, just do not seem to get the drift that we are not interested in the story as viewed by your myopic world.

As they said back in '65, Burn Baby Burn......

BLM

Suck my dick, Barton.

Bob Kuczewski - 2015/12/28 07:55:47 UTC

Setting the Record Straight

This is why our justice system allows for cross-examination of witnesses rather than just hanging people accused of being witches.

Unless, of course, we're talking about T** at K*** S******. Then we just have Emperor Bob ax him to make real sure we have a safe place for people of varying ages to visit.

I know that I've had a target on my back for years at Torrey, and I am as careful as I can possibly be about not breaking any rules - no matter how small.

Except, of course:

With each flight, demonstrates a method of establishing that the pilot is hooked in just prior to launch.

If anyone were ever to comply with that rule he'd be giving himself a false sense of security and lifting his wing into the turbulent jet stream all at once.

That's why USHPA had nothing they could pin on me during the expulsion.

See?

The incident that I believe you're referring to was a situation where Joe Spinney (you may know him)...

Joseph Spinney - California - 68376 - H4 - 2001/03/25 - Eves Tall Chief - AT FL TFL AWCL CL FSL RLF TUR XC - Exp: 2012/07/31

...was flying north of bathtub rock, and I was not. We both had primarily white gliders with reddish orange leading edges and I was accused of having crossed that line. I mentioned it to Joe Spinney, and he 'fessed up to Robin and no action was taken against me - otherwise they'd have surely kicked me out years ago ... and they couldn't because I hadn't done the crime.

I'll take an apology any time for the accusation of violating the rules and being called a liar. Thanks.

Start holding your breath. This should only take a few seconds.