Brad Geary video

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMXtCk9hjgI
4-26-16

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMXtCk9hjgI


0:15

I'd like all of my slides to be shown by City TV.

0:18

Why is u$hPa membership required to use our city park?

0:24

Let's review. This is gross negligence - a woman was badly injured.

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Yeah. It is. It's undeniable that they put a student way the fuck in over her head and she got fuckin' demolished. Her life destroyed maybe/probably. A court reviewed evidence and testimony and agreed so. I agree. Name some people who don't.

There ARE people who don't - obviously - but if you name them we can look at their records and motivations and quickly discount them for who and what they are.

0:28

We have child endangerment... at that park.

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'Cause YOU say so?

Here's my top hit for "child endangerment" from a Google search:

http://criminal-law.freeadvice.com/criminal-law/violent_crimes/felony-child-endangerment.htm
Felony Child Endangerment

Felony child endangerment is a child endangerment charge enhanced by aggravating circumstances. Child endangerment occurs when a person engages in conduct that places a child in imminent danger of death, bodily injury, or physical or mental impairment. This can be through an act or omission.

This kid's LAUGHING while the conduct that's placing him in imminent danger of death, bodily injury, or physical, or mental impairment is being committed.

This felony is being perpetrated center fucking stage with...

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...Mom and...

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...everyone and his fuckin' dog at the gliderport watching - UNDOUBTEDLY including other paraglider pilots, lifeguards, emergency responders, cops. And not one peep about anything from anyone - until Emperor Bob sees an opportunity. And this is in a country in which parents nearly get handcuffed and lose custody of their kids for letting them walk back from the park unaccompanied.

Make a case that - by community standards, for whatever that's worth - anything that happened on those two flights was child endangerment.

Furthermore... What's your scenario for something bad happening with that one, Bob? How does that one go south? Can you find me two seconds of video of Gliderport thrill ride drivers experiencing a momentary compromise of control? Can you cite a single incident of any degree of significance precipitated by canopy relative work like that?

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Compare/Contrast:

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That is NOT an out-of-context expression on that kid's face. Little Lars senses that there's something seriously wrong with that picture - even way the fuck up there where it's virtually impossible for anything bad to happen. That's exactly the kinda bullshit that got THIS:



person of a varying age fatally splattered, along with his "instructor", in front of his family early last spring - totally predictably and with decades of Hewett based precedent. And name somebody - other than Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney - who WOULDN'T have a facial expression like that under similar circumstances. But I don't hear you writing letters or testifying at hearings about those threats to people of varying ages.

Also like to note at this point that you've got no shortage of pet dickheads on The Bob Show who use crashes precipitated by Infallible Weak Links and Easily Reachable Bent Pin Releases to try to get ANY towing of people of varying ages legislated as felony child endangerment. Rick Masters comes to immediate mind.

0:33

A year and a half ago I gave deposition testimony in a lawsuit where I've cited those issues.

0:40

I was retaliated against by those same people shortly afterwards.

0:46

Retaliated by assault, battery, and false reports to the police. Was arrested.

0:56

u$hPa also retaliated. And earlier last year they expelled me, citing my testimony in court, and citing my testimony before this council.

1:11

Karma's funny though. Later last year u$hPa became uninsurable. This is what they wrote to their members. "We are in a difficult situation: we are being forced to evaluate new insurance options. We anticipate, at best, major premium increases and, at worst, an inability to renew our policy." They got the worst. Their policy was pulled.

1:33

But here's the smoking gun. Ten days ago u$hPa Regional Director Ken Andrews wrote to a u$hPa member and said this. He said "I've told Bob many ti-" - Bob, me - "many times that if he would stop attacking Torrey and u$hPa then I would work to get his membership reinstated so that he could fly at u$hPa sites again."

1:56

Translate that.

1:59

If I testif- If I stop testifying in court and I stop testifying at the City Council they well allow me to be u$hPa member.

2:08

And yet the city of San Diego is requiring u$hPa membership for me to use our city park.

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=463
Davis Straub's "Oz Report" Conflict of Interest

Bob Kuczewski - 2011/02/11 16:13:44 UTC

I remember when I was Regional Director there was a big dust up about Tad back in May of 2009, and some of the Directors were calling for legal action to censor him. On May 11, 2009, I sent the following message to the Board. I believe in open dialog, so I started by pointing out that Tad had included his email address in his letter (so we could contact him). I then offered my support for Dennis who suggested that we try to talk with Tad before taking legal action.

Thanks bigtime, Bob. I start making a stink about dangerous, blatantly illegal, known lethal issues in hang glider aerotowing that have caused hundreds of times the carnage of any shit ACA ever was or will be able to dish out. And your response - for which I'm supposed to owe you my eternal gratitude - is to support one of the sport's most dangerous lying pigfuckers to talk me down BEFORE the rest of you pigfuckers take legal action against me for giving evidence, mostly from u$hPa archives - to a legal authority. And the lying son of a bitch never bothers to talk to me anyway.

Go fuck yourself.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LOXPsfNeJA
MAY-16-2016

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LOXPsfNeJA


0:00

I'm here to talk about u$hPa's grip on Torrey Pines. Why is u$hPa membership required for us to our city park?

0:08

Remember this video from July 24th. A collision between two students, supposedly being, uh, controlled and, uh, guided by the gliderport. One of them was badly injured.

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Plus the other six stills from that sequence. Don't need to waste the bandwidth.

Yes Bob, that WAS a COLLISION. An unintentional violent impact between two aircraft which had very serious, life altering consequences for one of them. That was a COLLISION. What's going on between the Brad/Zack and Max/Alec gliders...

http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=5044
The insurance problem

Bob Kuczewski - 2015/12/26 21:41:22 UTC

The "Brad Geary" mentioned here is the same PG tandem pilot who happened to catch the video of Shannon Hamby's collision and then went on to lie about it - on video - and then participate in PG to PG collision stunts with Torrey concessionaire's son (Max Marien) ... while both carrying child passengers.

...are *NOT* COLLISIONS.

0:19

And they go on to... to commit all kinds of atrocious stunts with children on board.

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ATROCIOUS! Just look at the expression of abject terror on the face of that innocent young person of a varying age.

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0:25

It turns out I was a w- a expert witness at... at this deposition in that case, where the woman was injured. That wa- If you look at the date on that, that was September 19th, 2014.

0:36

Less than sixty days later these folks attacked me at Torrey Pines. Assaulted me, battered me, and lied to the police to have me arrested. No charges were ever filed, because I hadn't done anything wrong.

You hadn't done anything ILLEGAL. Doesn't mean you hadn't done anything WRONG. Those words aren't synonyms.

0:50

u$hPa covers up for this.

0:53

In Twenty Ten I created an alternate association called the US Hawks to provide CHOICE in the hang gliding marketplace. March Twentieth, Twenty Fifteen u$hPa sends me an expulsion notice. Here's the first thing in their expulsion notice:

"The behavior upon which the Board has determined that you should be expelled from the association falls into the following categories:

- ONE. Creation of at least two national hang gliding associations (organizations) with the stated purpose of competing with u$hPa, one of which you currently control."

1:20

In other words you can't even create a competitor to this organization or they will EXPEL you. And yet the City of San Diego requires membership in that organization to fly at our gliderport?

1:31

And THIS guy...

...who was... who was conducting those crashes with those kids, is still giving tandems at Torrey under u$hPa's, uh, guidance... under u$hPa's, uh, uh, tandem, uh, exemption.

- Yes Bob. Max was "CONDUCTING CRASHES" with those kids. Strange crashes which involved only brushing and pulling contact by Brad and Zack with Max's canopy and shroud lines and resulted in zero compromises of control of either wing. But just go ahead and continue butchering the English language by using its words to mean anything you feel like. (If you use anhedral to mean negative dihedral enough times it will eventually mean negative dihedral. Also towing pressure.)
- GIVING tandems? How generous of him.

1:43

Why must San Diego citizens join u$hPa to fly at our park?

Well if it's just a matter of San Diego citizens needing to join u$hPa to fly at our park then just move out beyond the city limits.

1:49

City Council, free San Diego citizens from u$hPa's grip to use our park. Eliminate the u$hPa requirement for us to fly at our park.

1:57

Thank you.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=34745
Torrey Pines Gliderport - Tandem Exemption pulled

Davis Straub - 2016/10/07 18:27:13 UTC

I apparently also don't know how I refer to tandem hang gliding.
I don't remember seeing the video.

Good job, Davis.

Perhaps a link here would be useful.

A whole lot more useful than on your dump where only assholes on your approved list can access it.

Brian McMahon - 2016/10/07 19:09:57 UTC

The video was pulled down years ago.

The video wasn't even UP years ago. It was posted by Margie Holland (majiemae5) on 2015/04/17 and announced by Bob as:

http://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5283/14026514902_8419be5dbf_o.png


at 2015/05/08 07:40:54 UTC.

The angry man at kite strings...

...created a stills/transcript of the whole video, beginning to end, so he might be angry, but he was smart to do it.

- Name some things that he was stupid to do - subsequent to being civil to mainstream forum dickheads to strike a balance between saying what needed to be said and being able to stay on and say it.
- How would it be possible for a smart person associated with this sport to NOT be angry?

A small (tiny) number of the pic's...

2.2 percent.

...are listed below:

Code: Select all

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062-163401

063-163918

065-165122

066-165709

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Boy are we seeing a lot of flagrant violations of the fundamental rules for posting in Jack's Living Room. And a lot of nothing being done in the way of enforcement.

I wasn't there on the day of the Hamby accident, but I have witnessed this kind of stacking...

Stacking?

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Compared to what one sees at FAA sanctioned airshows all the fuckin' time?

...with tandem students...

Students?

...on board before. This wasn't the first and only time this kind of thing went on, and except for the fact that teenage...

THIS:

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is a TEENAGER? This terrified thrill ride victim:

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is twelve. Anybody else think he looks decidedly older than Zack?

...students were involved...

These:

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are the best shots we have of Alec. And you can determine that Alec is ALSO a teenager from those. I think they're twins and no more than eleven years old. With a gun to my head... Ten.

I could not care less whether Max and Brad chew on each other wings in mid-air.

Also Mom couldn't have cared less. We know for a virtual certainty that she was watching the legal and u$hPa SOPs non-issue "stacking" maneuver which was u$hPa's primary "justification" for Brad's (but not Max's) permanent ratings revocations and she obviously saw every frame of both of her kids' videos obviously without raising anything remotely resembling a stink. And the kids were having obvious absolute BLASTS which was the sole purpose of Mom's mission.

But the wishes of the parties actually involved don't matter 'cause the primary mission of The Bob Show is to protect people of varying ages from themselves and their parents / legal guardians and what makes THEM happy. (But not from their tandem hang gliding instructors...

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...at Jean Lake.)

The video was up for months...

Twenty-one days max.

...before they pulled it from Youtube, I'm surprised that you have not already seen it.

Also totally fuckin' clueless regarding the 2013/06/15 Lin Lyons / Tres Pinos incident. Brain's probably maxed out storing the details of every circle he's ever made in a thermal.

Michael Grisham - 2016/10/07 15:41:26 UTC

I would also point out the major component of the conflict between ACA and the USHPA is being over looked. The fact Max Marien’s tandem rating was suspended by the USHPA for what they perceived as safety violations is the crux of the issue. Without the tandem rating, he was unable to legally fly under the USHPA exemption. He went shopping for another exemption so he could fly tandems. A few dollars here and there is not the real issue.

Ain't it wonderful the way glider people always have their shit so well together when they're submitting posts to mainstream forums.

Davis Straub - 2016/10/07 16:16:37 UTC

Interesting what you say about Mr. Marien. So the negotiation would be about getting his rating back then?

Never lost anything, dickhead.

Brian McMahon - 2016/10/07 16:28:01 UTC

You saw the video;

Of course he did. When he says:

Davis Straub - 2016/10/07 18:27:13 UTC

I don't remember seeing the video.

that means he saw the video.

...do you think what was done was safe?

Davis thinks that the 2013/02/02 Zack Marzec and 2016/05/21 Jeff Bohl pro toad launches were perfectly safe - 'specially the latter 'cause they had the:
Risk Mitigation Plan for the Quest Air Open
in effect at the time. Davis thinks that any AT comp in which nobody dies is safe beyond all imagination and description.

I don't think either of those pilots ought to be getting their Tandem Instructor rating back any time soon.

angry man thinks you should go fuck yourself and then maybe have a discussion with Bob and Sam about Terry Mason.

If they are flying tandems under some other authority or exemption, I can't imagine how a court case would play out under those circumstances.

Name something - other than never allowing Zack and Alec to touch the controls at any time during what's being passed off as an instructional flight - that Brad and/or Max did that was a violation of any federal, state, or local law or any u$hPa SOP.

Someone could end up being held criminally liable.

If Pat Denevan can get away with killing Nancy Tachibana the way he did without getting so much as a parking ticket or facing any civil consequences and Kelly Harrison was allowed to operate the way he did - which was one hundred percent "TYPICAL" - until he killed himself and his eleven year old tandem "STUDENT" on a wide open dry lakebed with the air doing NOTHING...
And let's not forget US Hang Gliding, Inc. and Tomas Banevicius.
Amazing how many students we can kill by not doing anything the least bit wrong.

flysurfski - 2016/10/07 23:04:51 UTC
Torrey Pines
7 pages of rhetoric and the smoking gun finally comes out. Oh those dang video cameras...

Yeah.

Ryan Voight - 2016/10/08 06:02:17 UTC

and the internet, where once it's "out there"... it can never be erased completely

Yeah Ryan...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=27217
Bad Launch!

Ryan Voight - 2012/09/26 20:05:16 UTC

I can (and have) run across a field and steer the glider without ever touching the DT's by simply changing the direction I run. At the beach (or South Side) I like to practice kiting my wing with no hands, and just moving my hips (and stepping if necessary) left/right.

Pulling the hang loop to the right is pulling the hang loop to the right- glider don't care if you're dangling beneath it or still touching the ground. As long as your mains are tight, you can weight shift it!

Can't tell you just how much we appreciate that one - and your subsequent digging in of heels.

Jack Axaopoulos - 2016/10/08 13:17:21 UTC

Wait a sec.... MAX Marien? Are there two Mariens working there? Dont remember his name being max. I always dealt with Robin Marien.

Also superbly tuned in to the major history making events of the past couple years.

Brian Scharp - 2016/10/08 16:36:17 UTC

Michael Grisham - 2016/10/07 15:41:26 UTC

I would also point out the major component...

No.

Jack Axaopoulos - 2016/10/08 13:17:21 UTC

Wait a sec....

Max is Robin's son, pilot of the wing being walked on. I recall Brad Geary's rating being permanently revoked, nothing for Max.

And when Pat Denevan sends a Hang One up to three hundred feet on total shit equipment at her end and no guillotine on his and slams her in and kills her u$hPa's response is to send Mitch Shipley out to collect and shred all of the evidence, silence all the witnesses, lay 100.00 percent of the responsibility and blame on the victim, and get Mission back up and running as soon as possible.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=41619
Goodbye Bob K?

Mark G. Forbes - 2015/04/21 01:32:02 UTC

So far as the wing walking thing goes, as soon as we were made aware of it last year, we immediately suspended the tandem rating, followed (after procedure) by a permanent revocation of that rating.

With all involved parties delighted and not so much as grass stain on anybody's knee. And at the beginning of that video we see the plummet...

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...and two thirds fatal impact...

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...of a radio controlled soaring P1 student following a midair and nobody involved with the incident gets so much as a fifty cent fine.

Another one of Brad's helpless victims.

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Brian McMahon - 2016/10/07 19:09:57 UTC

The video was pulled down years ago. The angry man at kite strings created a stills/transcript of the whole video, beginning to end, so he might be angry, but he was smart to do it. A small (tiny) number of the pic's are listed below:

P.S. I've uploaded this video - 679.3 megs - to Dropbox. If anyone wants a copy...

And nobody outside of Kite Strings has ever expressed the least interest.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=34745
Torrey Pines Gliderport - Tandem Exemption pulled

Stallpolicer - 2016/10/09 21:24:26 UTC

Communication isn't declining. It's growing.

And the kind of communication that u$hPa and the Industry really don't want growing is happening here.

There is a mentality that exists in the community that we can self-govern by suppression...

No shit.

...and it is wrong.

No shit.

2016/10/10 04:24:15 UTC - 3 thumbs up - SkyPoke

Davis Straub - 2016/10/10 02:32:39 UTC

If all of us are responsible for oversight, then no one is responsible.

Good thing we muppets have assholes like you telling us what appropriate bridles and weak links we're permitted to use.

SkyPoke - 2016/10/10 04:50:14 UTC

Communication isn't declining. It's growing. There is a mentality that exists in the community that we can self-govern by suppression and it is wrong.

Those Torrey Pines tandem pictures put up from that other web site...

Yeah! Fuck SUPPRESSION! (And make sure you refer to Kite Strings as "that other site" 'cause Jack doesn't permit posts referencing anything having to do with T** at K*** S******.)

...where kids are being endangered describe that the tandem flight video was taken back in 2011.

? We can't allow kids to allow themselves to be ENDANGERED. What's this world coming to? Let's get some asses in jail - where they belong.

So why has the USHPA just now revoked Air California Adventure Inc.'s tandem exemption?

The timing of the suppression would've been a bit awkward at that point.

Oh wait! It's because over the last few months Air California Adventure Inc. wasn't filling out USHPA required paperwork.

Timothy Ward - 2016/10/10 05:05:06 UTC

I think that's backwards. I think the timeline is more: USHPA revoked some tandem ratings. Air California decided to align with a group other than USHPA that also has a tandem exemption, and so, stopped sending paperwork required to use USHPA's tandem exemption.

USHPA decided to cover its (our) collective behinds by making it clear that tandem flights by Air California have nothing to do with USHPA. The subtext would be: don't sue us.

Yeah. THIS:

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is the sorta thing that was leading to all those crashes and lawsuits against u$hPa.

Mark Webber - 2016/10/10 15:13:31 UTC
Lakeview

But, but, but...we are NOT self-governed, we are governed by a MONEY company called USHpA.

And its non pilot lawyer - who doesn't give a rat's ass about flying.

If you don't give them any money, they tell you that you cannot fly.

2016/10/10 18:57:48 UTC - 3 thumbs up - Michael Grisham
2016/10/10 16:08:28 UTC - Sink This! -- Paul Hurless

SkyPoke - 2016/10/10 16:05:10 UTC

What I'm wondering is why wasn't the tandem exemption revoked by the USHPA when it learned (back in 2011?) that Brad Geary and the owner's son Max Marien where placing child passengers in harm's way by pulling dangerous stunts while doing tandem paragliding "lessons"?

What I'm wondering is why wasn't the Radio Controlled Solo P1 Soaring and Approach Exemption revoked by the USHPA when it learned (back in 2011?) that an unidentified Radio Control Instructor got his P1 student into a midair and resulting impact...

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...which left her demolished and resulted in a settlement of a couple million bucks.

And there's no way that kind of activity was a one-time-only situation. I wouldn't doubt that other kids and some or many adult passengers were subject to similar "thrill ride" stunts.

- The HORROR! Untold hundreds - likely THOUSANDS - of people of varying and nonvarying ages expecting only an introductory lesson in basic paragliding suddenly finding themselves SUBJECTED to these potentially lethal "thrill ride" stunts. No wonder virtually all of them abandon their lifetime dreams of pursuing paraglider pilot careers.

- Right, Jack Show dickhead. They do it all the fuckin' time, nobody has EVER gotten scratched, nobody can quote a single sentence's worth of relevant complaint - but this is a real serious problem. Look up "dangerous" in the dictionary and tell me how the adjective can be applied to any of the activities portrayed in this video.

- And meanwhile, back in hang glider towing, we've snuffed two students and one Hang Four comp / airline pilot so far this year - all in zilch conditions.

There's also no way that management - Max Marien's dad - didn't know that his tandem instructors were doing these dangerous maneuvers. Obviously these stunts were taking place right there in plain site in the air above Torrey Pines Gliderport for any and all to see. Not at some secluded remotely located flying site.

- EXACTLY.

Zack: MOM!

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But Mom and the general public are too fuckin' stupid to comprehend how insanely dangerous all of this is.
And Robin was really enthusiastic about the quality his video was gonna show and eager for Zack to put it up on his Facebook site for open public access. So what's your fuckin' point? YES, they were doing it all the fuckin' time, safety margins were a mile wide, and, given that this was just a tandem thrill ride with no pretense of expectation of it being anything else, it was totally oozing with excellence. Those two kid's had super experiences and, even coming from someone who's no huge fan of either paragliders or tandem flights of any kind, it's a really beautiful and interesting video.

- This:

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on the other hand, was perfectly OK because all of the equipment and procedures were "TYPICAL" - as has been borne out by the three subsequent US towing fatal crashes also in which nothing fundamentally wrong was done - just relatively clueless pilots failing to recognize the seriousness of their situations and use their state-of-the-art equipment to abort tows soon enough.

So, I'm still wondering why we lost our insurance and had to create the RRG?

'Cause you're all a bunch of total fucking douchebags who allow Jack, Davis, Trisa, Mark, Tim to lead you around by your balls in any direction they feel like pulling you.

Was it because our national organization never fixed the ACA tandem problems when they first learned about it? 5 years ago!

Right! That was why you lost your insurance and had to create the RRG.


http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=32673
This is terrible

Dave Pendzick - 2015/03/30 17:42:41 UTC

This is not going to end well for us...

KTNV13-13-11509
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Nothing at all to do with murdering an eleven year old kid in front of his family and almost national television and the subsequent 2015-2016 Hang Gliding Bloodbath.

I'll bet that the USHPA's old insurance company knew about Air California Adventure's dangerous tandem flying practices before they decided to terminate the policy!

Get fucked.

Could be that's why they terminated the policy.

See above.

2016/10/10 18:57:59 UTC - 3 thumbs up - Michael Grisham

See above.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=34745
Torrey Pines Gliderport - Tandem Exemption pulled

SkyPoke - 2016/10/10 17:28:13 UTC

Davis Straub - 2016/10/10 02:32:39 UTC

If all of us are responsible for oversight, then no one is responsible.

I don't buy that.
A mature adult has many responsibilities and they know that if they don't take them seriously then bad things can or will happen.

A mature adult also understands the difference between singular and plural and how to use pronouns and verbs accordingly.

Everyone at Torrey Pines Gliderport, from the Tandem Instructors to Gabe Jebb and Robin Marien, hold positions [see- http://www.flytorrey.com/our-staff/] that REQUIRE them to be RESPONSIBLE for insuring the safety of USHPA student and more advanced members.
I wonder how many USHPA officials have visited Torrey Pines and seen problems, including blatant commercialization of PG and HG tandem "instruction"?

u$hPa owes its miserable existence to blatant commercialization of PG and HG tandem "instruction".

Those people would include USHPA Executive Committee members, Regional Directors, etc.
When people in positions of authority fail to maintain their responsibilities BAD things DO happen!

u$hPa's primary mission is to absolve itself of responsibility for anything and everything.

A while back someone in the USHPA took responsibility and spoke up about problems at Torrey Pines Gliderport involving Air California Adventure's (bad and even dangerous) management of the site. The USHPA didn't positively reward that person's act of taking responsibility FOR OTHER MEMBER'S SAFETY. Instead they threw that person out of the USHPA.

Not before they - including that aforementioned someone - had done precisely the same thing to Yours Truly in precisely the scenario you describe.

So, by example, the USHPA endorses an organizational policy of NOT taking responsibility for safe flying operations!

Duh. In what cave were you living when Mark G. Forbes was stating that in black and white as unambiguously as possible?

And beyond that, they actually punish those who attempt to take that responsibility and work toward safer flying!

See above. They never miss an opportunity to make flying as dangerous as possible so when they splatter eleven year old kids in front of their families they can claim that all equipment and procedures contributing to the splattering were "typical".

If I was the head of a company that insured such an organization, as soon as I learned of that kind of bad organizational attitude, I'd cancel their insurance as quick as I could.

And get the word out to the rest of the industry to never insure them again at any price.

Revoking Air California Adventure Inc.'s USHPA tandem exemption now is like closing the barn door after the horse has escaped.

Any thoughts on the 2014 ECC Safety Committee which used John Claytor's broken neck as an indication that launch conditions were a bit marginal?

But looking at the timing of all the involved parts of this situation seems to me to define some serious problems with the management of our national HG and PG organization.

Ponzi scheme. Outcome is ALWAYS gonna be a collapse. Grade school arithmetic.

See no evil, Hear no evil, Speak no evil . . . . . . .and Take No Responsibility. **Until it's too late?**

Why stop there? Is it carved in granite that you can't continue taking no responsibility long after it's too late? Was Kelly Harrison the only individual with any responsibility for Arys Moorhead's fatal thrill ride? Was there even a finding that he'd done much of anything wrong / subtypical?

This is not a mature or adult version of accepting and taking responsibility!

See above.

2016/10/10 19:01:20 UTC - 3 thumbs up - Michael Grisham

Davis Straub - 2016/10/10 19:47:25 UTC

SkyPoke - 2016/10/10 16:05:10 UTC

What I'm wondering is why wasn't the tandem exemption revoked by the USHPA when it learned (back in 2011?) that Brad Geary and the owner's son Max Marien where placing child passengers in harm's way by pulling dangerous stunts while doing tandem paragliding "lessons"?

It is an interesting question and instead of assuming the answer, perhaps you can ask the question at the USHPA BOD meeting in a couple of weeks.

Yeah. He should go to the Board meeting. Bound to get really excellent information at one of those assemblies. Really great people once you've gotten to know them face to two face.

I personally don't know when someone who was a USHPA member learned that there was inappropriate tandems going on at ACA.

ALL tandems are inappropriate - and have been since thirty seconds after the exemption was granted.

I don't know who would be responsible for initiating any action against ACA if they found out about such actions.

What actions? Show me the SOPs violations.

All interesting questions.

It's The Jack Show. How could they be any less? (Remember when there used to be discussions on The Davis Show (that always got locked down whenever they showed any potential for properly resolving issues and moving the sport forward)?

Personally I spend five to six months a year at a flight park...

No conflicts of any interests...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24534
It's a wrap

Davis Straub - 2011/07/30 19:51:54 UTC

I'm very happy with the way Quest Air (Bobby Bailey designed) does it now.

...there.

...and have no interaction with anyone associated with the USHPA there. There is no oversight as far as I can tell.

What's the difference between Quest and u$hPa?

I am not a USHPA Official Observer or an instructor.

But nevertheless qualified to dictate to comp pilots what equipment they will and won't use.

Certainly the USHPA (office or BOD or anyone) is not equipped or missioned to go out on inspection tours.

And none of the members fly any of their local sites and/or watch videos, read accounts of incidents. So they're all totally helpless to do anything positive about anything.

Timothy Ward - 2016/10/10 19:58:57 UTC

Mark Webber - 2016/10/10 15:13:31 UTC

But, but, but...we are NOT self-governed, we are governed by a MONEY company called USHpA. If you don't give them any money, they tell you that you cannot fly.

No, they don't. They tell you that you can't benefit from services they provide.
One service would be insurance coverage for flying sites. Insurance makes landowners feel better about their risk exposure, and makes them more likely to allow flying.
Don't want to contribute? Don't. Just don't fly those sites.

And if the site's Ridgely and they have no justification beyond not liking somebody who knows what the fuck he's talking about then you won't have any choice.

Another service is having a tandem exemption from the FAA. But of course, you could go with another group that has that, as Air California did.

Why would any recreational hang glider pilot give the least flying fuck about tandem?

Another is having a pilot rating system.

Which enables u$hPa certified instructors to sell ratings.

A long time ago, local pilots would often give visiting pilots the hairy eyeball, because there wasn't much of a way to know if the visiting pilot was even remotely truthful about his experience.

A long time ago before any rating system or are you saying that one's card was always meaningless?

You don't need USHPA to fly, and I've never heard USHPA say you do.

What? THIS:

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=32681
Tandem crash in LV (speculation thread)

Mark G. Forbes - 2015/04/01 03:46:29 UTC

Among ourselves, we agree (via the waiver) that we understand we're engaged in a risky sport that can cause serious injury or death. We each agree that we are personally and individually responsible for our own safety. If we have an accident and get hurt, we agree in advance that it is solely our own fault, no matter what the circumstances might be. We sign at the bottom saying that we fully understand these things, that we accept them, and that we know we are giving up the right to sue anybody if an accident happens.
Those are fundamental tenets of our sport. We are all individually responsible for ourselves and our safety. We need to see and avoid all other pilots, avoid crashing into people or property and use good judgment when flying. If someone doesn't agree with those principles, then they don't need to be involved in our sport.

doesn't qualify? The reality is that - unless you live out in the middle of some fuckin' desert hundreds of miles from any population center - if you don't have a card you don't fly. Ask Bob just how many hours he's racked up since 2015/04/22.

Davis Straub - 2016/10/10 20:05:52 UTC

Unlike in Australia where you in fact need to be a fully paid up member of the HGFA ($300+/year)...

...and never be seen anywhere under any circumstances in a harness and not connected to the nearest glider...

...you do not need USHPA membership to be able to fly a hang glider. The USHPA is a self regulating organization.

With oversight by and accountability to NO ONE.

It is also a representative democracy.

Yep, I'll give ya that. They ARE a bunch of total douchebags.

You have the right to vote for your representative and you can also freely run for office. I have done so and won.

See?

You do not need to be a representative or USHPA officer to attend and speak up at the USHPA meeting nor at the USHPA membership meeting. You are perfectly free to engage in any political process that you care to with respect to the USHPA.

You just hafta be a big commercial tandem thrill ride operator dickhead to not get pissed all over.

Stallpolicer - 2016/10/10 20:25:13 UTC

There needs to be more membership participation. Sometime last year or earlier this year an USHPA forum was mentioned but no one had the time. Maybe thats a good idea to move forward with.

What's wrong with Davis's Dedicated Sycophant Cult, Jack's Mutual Masturbation Society, and Bob's Fake Democratic Utopia?

Brian McMahon - 2016/10/10 20:49:59 UTC

You would be wasting your time asking about why it took years. The BOD had to have known about it in 2011 because the Hamby lawsuit made the video available to all parties involved (meaning anyone who was involved possesses a copy of the video).

I'll bet Jon Hamby was real thrilled to see how he was being lied to - on top of being told that Shannon had a MINOR "accident" AND was alive and WELL.

My assumption is that the USHPA did not want to sanction anyone for anything related to ACA in light of the lawsuit because such actions may have made the instructors, ACA or USHPA look bad/guilty.

Which they looked anyway because they WERE. And the court found accordingly.

It appeared to me that not losing a gross negligence lawsuit was more important than anything, which is somewhat understandable.

Instead of admitting to the gross negligence, paying up (like they were gonna have to anyway), and turning the ship around from its rocks bound course.

I don't know if the USHPA playing a more active role in a site like Torrey would have prevented the Hamby accident...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25321
Stop the Stupids at the USHPA BOD meeting

Mark G. Forbes - 2011/09/29 02:26:23 UTC

We can establish rules which we think will improve pilot safety, but our attorney is right. USHPA is not in the business of keeping pilots "safe" and it can't be. Stepping into that morass is a recipe for extinction of our association. I wish it were not so, but it is. We don't sell equipment, we don't offer instruction, and we don't assure pilots that they'll be safe.

...but for sure there needs to be oversight of the flight and instructor operations by a third party that is not in it for profit from the concession.

I agree. If I were you I'd start holding my breath within the next week or two.

Anyway, there were several incidents where people weren't hurt that were strong warning signs of safety risks;

Lauren Tjaden - 2003/12/14

This fall at Ridgely, I had a weak link break at maybe fifty feet. I thought I was going to have to land in the soybeans - the very tall soybeans - when I looked at my angle. But, my glider stalled quite dramatically almost instantly (hard not to stall when you have a break), and dove towards the ground (a bit disconcerting from so low).

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-bRrpHNa68iY/UQ6Pv9gRZyI/AAAAAAAAjTg/Hc22bx5122Q/s2048/20943781_BG1.jpg

Lauren Tjaden - 2013/02/03

Yesterday at Quest we lost our good friend, Zach Marzec, in a hang gliding accident. We are all in shock and heartbroken here and are all pulling together to support his girlfriend, Clara. We will post more about the accident in days to come but for now I will say that conditions were very benign with light winds and blue skies. The accident occurred low on tow when Zach apparently hit very turbulent air possibly caused by a dust devil without the dust to make it visible. It appears that his glider was in good, flyable condition and rigged properly. We are all just sick.

...the USHPA leadership ignored all of them and referred the complaints to ACA since it's a private flying site. I get why they did that, but it is a USHPA rating system and rules that ACA is using to legitimize their operation. The USHPA should have more leverage than, 'oh it's a private school/site, take the matter up with them if you see a safety problem'.

Translation: Go fuck yourself.

Davis Straub - 2016/10/10 21:45:35 UTC

Lots of speculation here.

What? No Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney...

08-19
http://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5277/30076449505_1f6ed2f804_o.png


...to keep us all in line anymore?

No evidence that I can see.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec

Davis Straub - 2013/02/13 15:45:22 UTC

We have no agreement that a stronger weaklink would make it safer (again, I fly with a slightly stronger weaklink).

Personally I would love to see a full accounting of the timeline.

If I were you I wouldn't wanna see a precedent like that set.

I have no dogs in this particular fight, but no one is being a particularly good prosecutor.

Have you checked out Tad's Hole In The Ground lately?

http://www.hanggliding.org/wiki/HG_ORG_Mission_Statement
HangGliding.Org Rules and Policies

No posts or links about Bob K, Scott C Wise, Tad Eareckson and related people, or their material. ALL SUCH POSTS WILL BE IMMEDIATELY DELETED. These people are poison to this sport and are permanently banned from this site in every possible way imaginable.

That didn't have the effect of silencing me. Quite the contrary, in fact. And I take being characterized as poison to the sport - as it's devolved over the decades and exactly as you're documenting and confirming - as a very high compliment. And if Jack's words on this can be taken as having credibility there's no fuckin' way I can't take a lot of credit for substantial paving of the sport's road to hell - thank you very much.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=34745
Torrey Pines Gliderport - Tandem Exemption pulled

Davis Straub - 2016/10/11 04:23:37 UTC

The SOPs include basic safety requirements. It is not a basic safety requirement that helmets be worn while kiting gliders on the ground in front of students, for example. But it is a requirement that helmets be worn during flight.

That's fuckin' moronic. There've been seven head injury fatalities of pilots kiting gliders on the ground (as opposed to kiting gliders in the air) in front of students so far this year and somebody show me a video of anybody ever needing a helmet in flight.
In flight is the LAST place one would need a helmet. It would make more sense to require helmets to be worn when getting equipment out of the trunk of the car.

Brian Scharp - 2016/10/11 12:58:23 UTC

Correction.
It is now a basic safety requirement that helmets be worn while kiting gliders on the ground in front of students, for example, or anytime a pilot is in his harness and hooked-in or otherwise attached to his glider.

Wouldn't it make a lot more sense to require a pilot to wear a helmet when he's in his harness and THINKS he's hooked into his glider...

2-112
http://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7600/28811055456_925c8abb66_o.png

02-0609

07-0913

11-1118


...but actually ISN'T?

15-1900

Davis Straub - 2016/10/11 15:29:17 UTC

Brian,
Please provide the source of your statement.

Once again...

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1629
Jailed for taking pictures at Torrey

Bob Kuczewski - 2014/11/30 01:13:45 UTC

By the way, here's a response that I just got from Rich Hass (USHPA's President):

Bob,

You should be pleased to know; earlier this week, the EC voted to amend the safety requirements in SOP 12-01.05 to require members to wear a helmet whenever they are hooked into their glider. It will take a few days to get the SOP updated and posted on the USHPA website. USHPA will make reference to the updated requirement in its next members newsletter.

Thanks,
Rich Hass

Great job keeping up with the critical issues going on in the sport, Davis.

I am looking at the USHPA SOP's (as downloaded last night from the USHPA web site) and searching for the word "helmet." There is no mention of the requirement as you state it.

And great job getting the word out to your pilot population on all these critical safety issues, u$hPa. (Pity that one needs to be a paid up member to be able to access all this wonderful safety information.)

Brian Scharp - 2016/10/11 16:06:29 UTC

Look at 12-01.05 Equipment - B. Other Equipment - 1. As I stated.
You're welcome, but you should really thank BobK.

Well yeah, but then you'd hafta stand in line slowly creeping forward for two or three hours.

Davis Straub - 2016/10/11 16:16:05 UTC

Thanks, Brian, for that correction:

01. It is required that pilots wear protective headgear whenever they are in their harness and hooked-in or otherwise attached to their glider.

Funny. I am often hooked up to my glider waiting in line with my helmet off because I don't want to get too warm.

Just unhook, Davis. That way you'll be safe and legal. Preferably at Whitwell.

I found these interesting:

2. It is recommended that pilots wear adequate protective clothing.
3. It is recommended that pilots utilize flotation gear when there is any likelihood of landing in water.
4. It is recommended that pilots wear or utilize a reserve parachute.
5. It is recommended that pilots fly with a reliable communication device.

Fascinating. How did you find the SOPs on allowable aerotow weak link strengths and release performance? You know, the ones that specify "whatever Davis happens to be happy with at any given moment and tells you"?

Davis Straub - 2016/10/11 16:23:14 UTC

I wonder why they use the term "headgear" in this section and not helmet.

So they don't hafta define what constitutes a helmet...

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-9opdU5W1w6s/TZNOpxUd6AI/AAAAAAAAA1g/oWULqc0Dcss/s1600/helmetfinished.jpg


...and can accept baseball caps, visors, bandannas, sunscreen, insect repellent for people they like. Same sorta deal as with Industry Standard aerotow equipment.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=34794
Torrey Pines Gliderport - Tandem Exemption NOT pulled

Davis Straub - 2016/10/13 22:48:50 UTC

Mr. Poke,

Have you contacted your Regional Director and specifically pointed out where ACA personnel have broken USHPA rules or safety regulations and requested that the party's rating be revoked?

That's how it works. If you didn't do it, then you know why nothing has happened.

SkyPoke - 2016/10/13 22:01:06 UTC

I'm kind of amazed that Max Marien's tandem rating wasn't revoked (forever) after that video came out connected with the serious Hamby accident at Torrey Pines. I got a chance to view it and Brad Geary and Max Marien were flying VERY recklessly, each with a young child as a tandem passenger.

There's no "wild speculation" needed after watching that video. The dangerous, maybe even illegal, behavior of those two USHPA Certified Tandem PG pilots is beyond question.

Having a USHPA EC member inform us that Max Marien's tandem rating was never revoked and remains valid makes me wonder about the relationship between our national HG/PG organization's leadership and Air California Adventure Inc.

Now we're stuck with some complicated self insurance set-up which is only required because HG and PG are too big a risk for our old insurance company? It seems like a real big risk when reckless PG tandem pilots are allowed to fly dangerously with little kids as tandem "students".

And that Video didn't show tandem PG instruction. It didn't even show an illegal tandem PG joy ride. What it showed was an illegal tandem PG THRILL RIDE!

It doesn't seem like a "difficult problem" to me.

Robin Marien, the owner of ACA and "Flight Director" at Torrey Pines Gliderport, knew and knows what's going on there. On their web site it says he holds the following USHPA(?) ratings and positions "Master Pilot (P5), Advanced Instructor, Tandem Instructor, Tandem Administrator, Instructor Administrator". Nobody like that should EVER allow dangerous tandem flying with children or adults. Every USHPA rating and position that Robin Marien holds should be revoked permanently! That should be done ASAP and made public BIG TIME!

It's time to stop pussy footing around.

Duplicated five minutes and five seconds later at:

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=34745
Torrey Pines Gliderport - Tandem Exemption pulled

where it gets:

2016/10/14 01:53:32 UTC - 3 thumbs up - Michael Grisham
2016/10/14 02:47:15 UTC - 3 thumbs up - flysurfski

And continuing in that thread...

SkyPoke - 2016/10/14 01:40:27 UTC

Mr. Poke...

First off, you can call me Sky.

Next, you seem to be implying that since 2011 or 2012, when the USHPA leadership first became aware of the Hamby video, they have been waiting for me to give my RD a call so that they may move forward with the revocation of Air California Adventure's tandem exemption and PG tandem pilot ratings. Let's not forget tossing the irresponsible Robin Marien out of the USHPA.

I didn't realize that the USHPA revolves around me! Then again maybe you have me confused with the FAA's top Administrator, Michael Huerta? Or someone else in a similar position? I'll guarantee you that I'm not him. I'm only kinda good at lassoing stray thermals.

Air California Adventure Inc. problems are the USHPA's problems and the USHPA knows what it's own responsibilities are. One of those includes protecting the public from tandem pilots, who they have certified, who are actually dangerous and threaten the public's safety. The USHPA doesn't need an individual member to tell them what they should be doing.

Plus, the USHPA has made it clear that if an individual member tries to tell them about problems, let's say, at Torrey Pines, then they simply throw that member out of the association. I may only be a part time lift wrangler, but I'm not stupid.

2016/10/14 01:53:23 UTC - 3 thumbs up - Michael Grisham
2016/10/14 02:18:50 UTC - 3 thumbs up - flysurfski

This motherfucker is Scott C. Wise aka Wingspan34/33, Speck_out_hi. You can take that to the bank.

The lightbulb started glowing upon reading the 2016/10/13 22:01:06/22:06:11 UTC post, I started checking SkyPoke's posting history and IMMEDIATELY started finding matches. One seeming monkey wrench in the hypothesis...

We have both SkyPoke, NE USA, joined 2008/02/20, and Wingspan34, Central NY, joined 2007/03/15, posting in:

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=11995
How Complacency and overconfidence almost killed Linda S(alamone)

But the former enters the discussion first:
2009/05/14 16:48:19 UTC
2009/05/14 16:55:13 UTC
and then disappears with the latter coming in and doing:
2009/05/14 22:55:11 UTC
2009/05/15 02:33:37 UTC
2009/05/16 20:44:15 UTC
2009/05/17 01:06:46 UTC

So he'd created that alternate ID for some reason and entered the discussion as one and switched to the other as he found it appropriate. The disappearance of SkyPoke upon the appearance of Wingspan34 - no overlap - makes the monkey wrench just another tell.

Davis:

Davis Straub - 2016/10/14 02:22:43 UTC

You or someone else like you.

has either also figured it out or been tipped off.

http://www.hanggliding.org/wiki/HG_ORG_Mission_Statement
HangGliding.Org Rules and Policies

No posts or links about Bob K, Scott C Wise, Tad Eareckson and related people, or their material. ALL SUCH POSTS WILL BE IMMEDIATELY DELETED. These people are poison to this sport and are permanently banned from this site in every possible way imaginable.

Apparently every possible way imaginable wasn't enough for one of the three, Jack. Any thoughts, comment?
---
P.S. - 2016/10/14 13:45:00 UTC

Upon reviewing SkyPoke's "contributions" to these recent discussions I feel like a total moron for having taken as long as I did to ID him.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=34745
Torrey Pines Gliderport - Tandem Exemption pulled

Mark Webber - 2016/10/14 17:26:18 UTC

SkyPoke - 2016/10/14 01:40:27 UTC

The USHPA doesn't need an individual member to tell them what they should be doing.

Davis Straub - 2016/10/14 02:22:43 UTC

You or someone else like you.

This has been going on for YEARS. This from 2008.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=7174
H/G Jokes

Mark Webber - 2008/06/05 15:40:53 UTC

HAY, do you know what a powered paraglider sounds like at idle?

Jegg, Jebb, Jebb, Jebb.....yea, I know, It's only a Tad funny.

- Good job, Mark. Spelled most of the words right.
- Originally and currently "tad". Reference to Tad Hurst rather than T** at K*** S******.

From sg in 2008

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=7852
Reply from Brad

Jack Axaopoulos - 2008/07/23 18:03:05 UTC

Yeah no kidding. This is pointless. It couldnt be any more clear that we will not be getting answers and help from anyone, the RDs, ushpa, the soaring council, etc. That only leaves HARDBALL

Who's up for a picket line next weekend?

Really impressed with the way the members of the Jack Show Mutual Masturbation Society have gotten the situation under control.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=34745
Torrey Pines Gliderport - Tandem Exemption pulled

Davis Straub - 2016/10/14 19:58:20 UTC

Posting things here is irrelevant to the question of how you bring a violation of the USHPA rules or safety regulations to the attention of the appropriate committee or Regional Director.

Really? Posting things there, in Jack's Living Room in which no mention of children who don't play nicely with others, is where Mark G. Forbes, u$hPa's designated information decimator posts whenever the lid gets close to coming off.

Brian Scharp - 2016/10/14 21:32:56 UTC

Didn't realize that was your question. Email. Sorry, should this be a PM?

Davis Straub - 2016/10/14 23:18:37 UTC

Hi Brian,

I'm referring to SeeMarkFly's post above.

The question I raise is did anyone bring the ACA up for actions before the USHPA by contacting their Regional Director or USHPA committee chairman with a written complaint and evidence of misconduct.

Mark Webber - 2016/10/15 01:09:26 UTC

When I joined the San Deigo club David Jebb was the RD.
I have complained for DECADES to anyone who will listen.

But now that I have your attention...
The USHpA is acting like a government entity. No problem = No solution.
They don't seem to be representing me and I don't want to give them any of my money for "non-representation".
I think we should ask Wills Wings to test customers before the sale of a sail and include insurance in the sale price.

What about places like Florida and Texas? Wills Wing gliders aren't designed to be towed so there'd be no real way to test customers.

Cut out the ineffective "middle man" USHpA.
An easy solution to a complex problem.

How are we doing with just what an appropriate weak link is? We've been towing gliders through pilot connections for over 35 years now. How we comin' along with that? Still trail and error?

Davis Straub - 2016/10/15 01:39:55 UTC

Thanks Mark,

Did you present to the appropriate USHPA committee chairman or impartial Regional Director...

Or the Tooth Fairy.

...evidence of any instructor breaking USHPA rules or safety regulations?

Nah. Just Brad Geary who WASN'T breaking any u$hPa rules or safety regulations.

I'm still trying to find out if anyone actually went to the USHPA with evidence and demanded action.

I so do admire your never ending quest for the truth, Davis. Where would the sport be without you.

Since I have seen them take an action previously against an extremely powerful and popular flight park...

Wallaby.

...I have no doubt that they would do so in other similar situations.

u$hPa not getting its cut from the tandem thrill ride industry.

Thanks.

Steve Forslund - 2016/10/15 02:13:44 UTC

Mark has not been a member since 2007

flysurfski - 2016/10/15 02:15:04 UTC

Many people did but Mr Jebb was an RD himself and controlled all the other southern CA RDs like Brad Hall and Rob Sporrer...

The way Highland Aerosports took over and controlled the sport in the Mid Atlantic until they incompetented their way into extinction.

Davis were you even paying attention to anything @ TPG at the time? I doubt it...

Lotsa concussions. Changed wiring. Dementia. Cut him some slack.

Davis Straub - 2016/10/15 02:17:53 UTC

I heard many stories and, of course, I was aware of Mr. Jebb. So far the answer is no. No one took their evidence to an impartial Regional Director or the appropriate USHPA committee chairman. That's what I'm hearing so far.

Yeah. And ignoring everything that's inconvenient for you to have heard.

If that's wrong, please speak up.

Those of you who are still PERMITTED to speak up on The Jack Show.

flysurfski - 2016/10/15 02:23:07 UTC

I did try to talk to Brad Hall about Mr Jebb. He wanted to hear nothing though. Pure Deflection...

I do like Robin way more than that crooked cop. That's for sure. Just My opinion though...

Davis Straub - 2016/10/15 02:30:13 UTC

Written complaint with evidence to an appropriate USHPA committee chairman or impartial Regional Director.

Or the Easter Bunny.

I understand that there were lots of issues among the various southern California Regional Directors.

No shit.

handgliderguy - 2016/10/15 17:26:50 UTC
Eastern US

I've been watching this topic for a while now.



Mr. Staub, wasn't there a USHPA RD who defined the problems with ACA to many people in the leadership of the USHPA? In response the loyal Jebbites demanded a (rigged) recall vote and then that RD was gone.

DS, I find it very odd that you don't seem to know the answers to your own questions. It's like the editor of the Washington Post claiming to not know about Watergate - after the story was printed.

No shit.

The story here is not when or if the USHPA leadership knew about Air California Adventure's various screw ups. The story is why is the USHPA all of a sudden releasing negative press about ACA?

That question leads to the question of why the USHPA didn't do something 3,4,5 or more years ago about ACA? Was the documented unsafe tandem flying at ACA back in 2011 one of the reasons behind the USHPA losing its old long term insurance?

WHAT documented unsafe tandem flying at ACA back in 2011 or at any other time? Do we have a single frame of video evidence or account or report of a tandem driver or passenger ever getting a grass stained knee? When something is being done all the fuckin' time for years or decades and there's not so much as a scrap of evidence even of a control compromise at altitude under what definition of "dangerous" does it fall?

Want clearly dangerous and blatantly illegal practices? Try ANY Dragonfly tow. And look at who's bought it at the last two Quest fatalities - both well subsequent to the 2011/07/24 Brad Geary video flights.

Taking a step back and looking at the big picture, does the most recent USHPA announcement open up a very ripe can of worms about how they have been handling their own pretty serious responsibilities?

2016/10/15 18:34:48 UTC - 3 thumbs up - Michael Grisham
2016/10/16 03:53:45 UTC - 3 thumbs up - flysurfski

Davis Straub - 2016/10/15 17:40:05 UTC

Yep, the good old attack the messenger tactic.

The messenger that you banned from The Davis Show because of his anti ACA/u$hPa position in this conflict?

So far not a single person has stood up and said, yes I gathered the evidence in writing and presented that evidence...

Go...

http://www.hanggliding.org/wiki/HG_ORG_Mission_Statement
HangGliding.Org Rules and Policies

No posts or links about Bob K, Scott C Wise, Tad Eareckson and related people, or their material. ALL SUCH POSTS WILL BE IMMEDIATELY DELETED. These people are poison to this sport and are permanently banned from this site in every possible way imaginable.

...figure.

So why aren't you posting on The Bob Show, Davis? Bob is DELIGHTED to entertain lying pigfuckers over there.

...to the appropriate USHPA committee chairman or impartial Regional Director, any impartial Regional Director.

Or Santa Claus.

I'm beginning to think...

Don't go nuts with that, Davis. The strain on the circuitry could be catastrophic.

...that there isn't such a person.

Yeah right. Just like there was no person screaming his lungs out about the insanity of the Davis Link for years before Davis inexplicably became happier with one slightly stronger.

Michael Grisham - 2016/10/15 18:18:57 UTC

He is referred to as "The Unmentionable".

What? That's not just for unrepentant child molesters?

darkcloud - 2016/10/15 19:27:12 UTC
SoCal

Bob Kuczewski?

C'mon Jack. Delete the post. And let's have a discussion about the 911 attacks without any mention of Osama Bin Laden.

Davis Straub - 2016/10/15 21:27:47 UTC

You all understand, I assume, maybe I shouldn't assume, that there was a certain person that did everything to undermine his own story, right? That this was not an appropriate person to bring anything to the USHPA.

Nah. The appropriate person is the one who always plays nice with others and never does shit about anything. I nominate Tom Lyon.

Look folks, I'm trying to get the story straight here.

Well that goes without saying. When are you ever NOT trying to get the story straight THERE, Davis?

There have been so many different emotionally held positions that do not add up to a straight story. All I want are the facts.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks

Davis Straub - 2013/03/06 18:29:05 UTC

You know, after all this discussion I'm now convinced that it is a very good idea to treat the weaklink as a release, that that is exactly what we do when we have a weaklink on one side of a pro tow bridle. That that is exactly what has happened to me in a number of situations and that the whole business about a weaklink only for the glider not breaking isn't really the case nor a good idea for hang gliding.

I'm happy to have a relatively weak weaklink, and have never had a serious problem with the Greenspot 130, just an inconvenience now and then.

I'm thinking about doing a bit more testing as there seemed to be some disagreement around here about what the average breaking strength of a loop of Greenspot (or orange) weaklink was.

Suck my dick, Davis.

I'm not on anybody's side here. Certainly ACA has nothing to do with me. I don't go there and don't care about what happens there. But in light of recent developments I want for once to get the facts out there before they get buried in a bunch of he said she said.

miguel - 2016/10/16 02:19:43 UTC

Both Donald and Hillary approve of this message.

Translation: Suck my dick, Davis.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=34745
Torrey Pines Gliderport - Tandem Exemption pulled

Brian Scharp - 2016/10/16 16:33:15 UTC

So Bob Kuczewski can raise issues about Torrey, over and over and over, with which no one ever really said he was wrong about.

Nah...

...about which no one ever really said he was wrong.

But they can be mostly dismissed because he was not an appropriate person to bring anything to the USHPA.

I'm beginning to think that there isn't such a person.

Anybody ever figure out what an appropriate weak link is? And what it's supposed to be doing for us.

Mark Webber - 2016/10/16 17:15:34 UTC

Long ago and far away

I attended every club meeting as a member and also every club meeting after I became an officer of the board. The local San Diego club was inundated with Torrey Pines "affiliates" (instructors, used equipment salesmen, star pupils...). My local R.D. (David Jebb) was the owner of the concession at Torrey Pines. Any talk of using Torrey Pines to train H-2's into H-3's via touch-and-goes was quickly dismissed.

There might be club minutes detailing my questions to Torrey employees (board members) and the answers I got from them. I did NOT save any of the club's old minutes.

Got the web now. Harder to have things disappear.

I was new to hang gliding at that time and there was an air of superiority at all the meetings.

And that was probably long before Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney became the sport's foremost authority on everything.

It was a bit intimidating then, I've changed a lot over the years.

Wish I'd known then a quarter of what I know now.

I used to park my van on launch at Horse till everyone was set-up. I received non-ending complaints that my van was in the way for paragliders to top land.

I might be able to see their point on that one.

I told Tad Hurst that I would be glad to move my van after all the hang gliders have been set up and paragliders should NOT be top landing in the set-up area for hang gliders.

If there are:
- hang gliders setting up in the setup area for hang gliders they probably don't wanna be top landing there.
- not hang gliders setting up in the setup area for hang gliders then what's the problem with them top landing there?

We almost came to blows over this issue.

But he skipped one to many hook-in checks at Torrey so any effort in those lines would've been mostly unnecessary.

Steve Forslund - 2016/10/15 02:13:44 UTC

Mark has not been a member since 2007

A member of WHAT?

I am a hang glider looking for other hang gliders that want hang gliding as the focus of their efforts.

Have you seen ANY mention of Torrey Pines in the "required communication" called The Magazine?

I want my time and money and sport (chosen recreational activity) to NOT be diluted by powered paragliding, speed gliding, squirrel suits, full-color ad revenues, paragliding schools, etc.

Fuckin' douchebag Dragonfly drivers don't merit a mention?