I predict that no commercial school or instructor will EVER implement this most simple and effective fix to one of hang gliding's deadliest problem. And when a student really appreciates the danger nobody's gonna need to pressure him to perform the procedure properly - when it counts.
In the US, could an instructor face a lawsuit for not teaching this method to a student, who later launches un hooked?
Students sign a liability waiver that precludes them from filing suit themselves and in which the student assumes all risk, or words to that effect.
There is also a legal doctrine known as 'Assumption of Risk' wherein anyone engaging in activity already known to be risky assumes all risk for adverse consequences. Again, it's words to that effect.
Unless the judge is corrupt or an idiot, the case would be dismissed. Furthermore, USHPA's insurance lawyers would defend the instructor since we are now self-insured.
Also, there is little agreement on what constitutes a satisfactory hook-in check. In fact there is little agreement about much of anything in the U.S. world of hang gliding.
I'm not kidding either.
Yes - which is WHY I can safely predict that no commercial school or instructor will EVER implement this most simple and effective fix to one of hang gliding's deadliest problems.
Doug Hildreth - 1990/03
The other significant increase is in failure to hook in. Typically there are about the same number of non-hook-ins in the questionnaire group, so that it is safe to say that there were at least ten failures to hook in this year. It has occurred in the tandem sector too, both pilot and passenger.
The instructional programs to assure hook-in within fifteen seconds of launch have apparently not caught up with the masses.
They weren't teaching it before, they've got zillions of failure to hook-in fatality lawsuits waiting to happen running around loose, if they start teaching it now they'll be setting themselves up for legal and financial annihilation if/WHEN one of those fatalities waiting to happen happens.
Students sign a liability waiver that precludes them from filing suit themselves and in which the student assumes all risk...
Under the entirely reasonable - although ALWAYS invalid - assumption that a USHPA certified instructor ISN'T an incompetent, negligent, lying, ass covering, serial killing pigfucker.
Unless the judge is corrupt or an idiot, the case would be dismissed.
2004/06/06 - Stephen Richard Parson was recently convinced of manslaughter in the death of 23-year-old Greek tourist Eleni Zeri, who fell to her death March 29 during a Sky Trek commercial hang gliding flight near Queenstown.
A New Zealand hang-glider pilot convicted of criminal negligence for causing a woman to fall to her death may be deported from Canada.
William Jon Orders, 51, failed to connect Lenami Godinez-Avila, 28, during a tandem flight and caused her to fall 300 metres to her death. Orders was sentenced to five months' jail yesterday after earlier pleading guilty to criminal negligence causing the death of Godinez-Avila.
There's a lotta stupid crap polluting things but...
If, just before committing to a launch, a second check is done EVERY TIME and this is made a HABIT, this tragic mistake could be eliminated.
And that DOES clearly disqualify just about all the useless or worse garbage we see all over the fuckin' place - Morningside for example. (Right technique. Wrong time, place, mindset.)
Amazing how when this topic comes up every time you see people argue the same arguments over and over again. It has been a classic (although niche) endless Internet flame topic.
I suspect that some of the parties that have posted in threads like these before are refraining now since they have learned that it is nearly (completely?) impossible to change people's minds on the topic.
For my part I will just refer you to the classic Tad Eareckson essay which I call "the gun is always loaded" which is a bit overworked but probably all you will ever need to read regarding FTHI. A lot of people will find it gores their particular sacred Ox, but I have never seen anyone point out a flaw in his logic.
In fact there is little agreement about much of anything in the U.S. world of hang gliding.
That's because we've handed control of the sport over to a cartel of douchebag commercial interests and its sleazy nonpilot corporate lawyer. Silencing competent voices...
No posts or links about ... ., ..... . ...., Tad Eareckson and related people, or their material. ALL SUCH POSTS WILL BE IMMEDIATELY DELETED. These people are poison to this sport and are permanently banned from this site in every possible way imaginable.
...and respecting and valuing the OPINIONS of the run of the mill dickheads remaining is the strategy best suited to extending the lifespan the Ponzi scheme.
Tad Eareckson wrote:....What we have now is not sustainable.
Sadly, it's part of human nature for people to mentally filter out things that don't jibe with their personal views. Far too many people are easy to manipulate and gullible on top of this. Then there's confirmation bias when people research things and draw conclusions. In the end, if somebody has made up his or her mind to learn to hang glide or anything else for that matter they will find an instructor or school and go do it unless the instruction they receive is so bad they wind up injured or worse and can't continue. Many of us have seen pilot after pilot enter the sport and just keep crashing yet they won't give up until they are too badly broken or dead.
Over the past few years there has been a rash of fatal surface tow lockout fatalities in the U.S. None of these involved a broken weak link. One pilot got off tow but stalled right after release and spun into the ground.
Why don't we have surface tow release and lockout simulators? Why can't an old glider be rigged up to be hung from a tree or an A-frame with the nose pointing up high and tension placed on the tow bridle set-up so that student can practice dealing with emergency situations? This seems like it would be inexpensive and easy to rig up. Significantly more pilots die from surface and aero tow failures than from failures to deploy reserves yet we have recurring reserve toss clinics with simulations but no AT/ST clinics with emergency procedure simulations. I'd pay to attend such a clinic that was expertly run. I'm sure others would too.
Although there have been many FTHIs, the fatality rate has been minimal lately.
I have been personally remiss in presenting this simple and life-saving procedure in my videos but finally remembered to do it on yesterday's flight video edit: https://youtu.be/xY_5SB9wfLs?t=4s
I get what Tad is saying, but it took some translation:
HANG CHECK is part of the preflight, to verify that all the harness lines etc. are straight.
HOOK-IN CHECK is to verify connection to the glider five seconds before takeoff.
They are separate actions, neither interchangeable nor meant to replace one another. They are not two ways to do the same thing.
For my part I will just refer you to the classic Tad Eareckson essay which I call "the gun is always loaded" which is a bit overworked but probably all you will ever need to read regarding FTHI. A lot of people will find it gores their particular sacred Ox, but I have never seen anyone point out a flaw in his logic.
The practice of lifting my glider and feeling the leg loops has always worked for me, even while flying other gliders. Enough said there.
Had I read FTHI.pdf by Tad Eareckson, I probably would have never built the device...
After reading Tad's essay, I'm more inclined to remove the device and the extra hang strap.
The logic is bulletproof - totally unassailable. And there are zero reports from the field that can be used to put any dents in anything.
In fact there is little agreement about much of anything in the U.S. world of hang gliding.
Entirely by design. Keep pumping crap into the system; promoting douchebags like Ryan and Rooney; attacking competence, logic, science, integrity when and where ever those forces rear their ugly heads. Only way to extend the life of the Corporate Attorney's Ponzi scheme.
Sadly, it's part of human nature for people to mentally filter out things that don't jibe with their personal views.
Real bad idea in a counterintuitive endeavor like aviation.
Far too many people are easy to manipulate and gullible on top of this.
And after they've been properly indoctrinated they get to weigh in with their opinions, vote for regional directors, call to silence and banish the people who aren't easy to manipulate and gullible.
Then there's confirmation bias when people research things and draw conclusions.
Your second statement is why.
I just buried my friend and you want me to have a nice little discussion about pure speculation about his accident so that some dude that's got a pet project wants to push his theories?
Deltaman loves his mouth release.
BFD
I get tired as hell "refuting" all these mouth release and "strong link" arguments. Dig through the forums if you want that. I've been doing it for years but unfortunately the peddlers are religious in their beliefs so they find justification any way they can to "prove" their stuff. This is known as "Confirmation Bias"... seeking data to support your theory... it's back-asswards. Guess what? The shit doesn't work. If it did, we'd be using it everywhere. But it doesn't stand the test of reality.
AT isn't new. This stuff's been worked on and worked over for years and thousands upon thousands of tows. I love all these egomaniacs that jump up and decide that they're going to "fix" things, as if no one else has ever thought of this stuff?
But back to the root of my anger... speculation.
Much like confirmation bias, he's come here to shoehorn his pet little project into a discussion. Please take your snake oil and go elsewhere.
Tune him up?
Yeah, sorry... no.
...confirmation bias. As pilots, scientists we're SUPPOSED to be researching things and drawing conclusions - although as pilots we shouldn't hafta be 'cause Wilbur and Orville got everything properly nailed near the beginning of the previous century. And hang gliding's done way less than nothing by way of building upon their work.
Confirmation bias, also called confirmatory bias or myside bias, is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms one's preexisting beliefs or hypotheses, while giving disproportionately less consideration to alternative possibilities.
is confirmation bias. Want a real textbook example?
Donnell Hewett - 1980/12
Now I've heard the argument that "Weak links always break at the worst possible time, when the glider is climbing hard in a near stall situation," and that "More people have been injured because of a weak link than saved by one." Well, I for one have been saved by a weak link and would not even consider towing without one. I want to know without a doubt (1) when I am pushing too hard, and (2) what will break when I push too hard, and (3) that no other damage need result because I push too hard.
In skyting we use a simple and inexpensive strand of nylon fishing line which breaks at the desired tension limit. Sure, it may get weaker through aging or wear and break too soon, but it cannot get stronger and fail to break. If it does break too soon, so what? We simply replace it with a fresh one.
A properly designed weak link must be strong enough to permit a good rate of climb without breaking, and it must be weak enough to break before the glider gets out of control, stalls, or collapses.
There are precious few towing fatalities and other disasters that have occurred since the beginning of the second to last decade of the last century that can't be attributed to the willful dismissal of reality by that delusional motherfucker. He got so much shit totally backwards that the smidgen he got somewhat right - that others had gotten more right at the same time independently - should merit nothing more than a minor footnote. (On the plus side anyway.)
...his rather nonsensical and too-often phantasmagorical version of physics and aerodynamics.
wasn't clear?
Ryan is a classic example of a superbly talented athlete who is ill-equipped to write a comprehensive training manual or academically meaningful text.
Played right into the hands of Ryan Instant-Hands-Free-Release Voight.
In the end, if somebody has made up his or her mind to learn to hang glide or anything else for that matter they will find an instructor or school and go do it...
And end up in worse shape than if he or she had gotten equipment off the web and figured things out from watching videos.
...unless the instruction they receive is so bad they wind up injured or worse and can't continue.
ALL instruction is bad. As we've previously noted there is no certified instruction in at least North America, Australia, New Zealand which doesn't indoctrinate students with procedures and mindsets which INcrease their likelihoods of launching unhooked - just for starters. I wouldn't want anyone about whom I give the least flying fuck participating in the sport so schooled.
Many of us have seen pilot after pilot enter the sport and just keep crashing yet they won't give up until they are too badly broken or dead.
Flare timing not perfected well enough? Show me a video of ANYONE in an instructional situation being taught how to FLY.
Over the past few years there has been a rash of fatal surface tow lockout fatalities in the U.S. None of these involved a broken weak link.
So? A low locked out glider is pretty much a dead glider no matter what. Typically it will die a second or two later if the:
- weak link doesn't increase the safety of the towing operation
- driver doesn't make a good decision in the interest of its safety
- "pilot" keeps trying to fix the bad thing because he doesn't wanna start over
One pilot got off tow but stalled right after release and spun into the ground.
It works best in a lockout situation... if you're banked away from the tug and have the bar back by your belly button... let it out. Glider will pitch up, break weaklink, and you fly away.
He flew away. Everybody knows nothing bad can happen to you once you're off tow.
2. Yeah, that's why Steve Exceptionally-Knowledgeable Wendt says:
Wills Wing / Blue Sky / Steve Wendt / Ryan Voight Productions - 2007/03
NEVER CUT THE POWER...
Reduce Gradually
Increase Gradually
Instantly chop a couple hundred pounds of thrust and the ground will occasionally rush up before the increase in the safety of the towing operation finishes running its course.
Why don't we have surface tow release and lockout simulators?
Because then students would learn that they'll be terminally fucked in any low level emergency situation - à la Jeff Bohl. And that would make them question the validity of Quallaby's claim that the weak link will break before they can get into too much trouble.
Why can't an old glider be rigged up to be hung from a tree or an A-frame with the nose pointing up high and tension placed on the tow bridle set-up so that student can practice dealing with emergency situations?
1. While he maintains full control of the glider with the other hand.
2. How much does a person need to practice in order to be able to do THIS:
effectively? If it's an emergency situation all ya gotta do is say "Oh shit!" which you're probably gonna be doing anyway.
Bill Bryden - 1998/12
Unfortunately, we suffered a fatal towing accident earlier this year but only recently received some details about it. Richard Graham, and advanced pilot with 24 years of experience, was fatally injured in a towing accident on May 15, 1998 near Grover, Colorado.
Rich was platform-launch towing in strong (25-30 mph) winds crossing 35-40 degrees to the tow road. Thermal activity was also reported as moderately strong. The launch sequence commenced with the "go to cruise" command, and the glider cleared the tow vehicle. Approximately 300-400 feet of line unspooled, and according to the data memory in the vario the glider reached about 80-90 feet AGL. The pilot then radioed to the vehicle driver to stop, and a few seconds later the VOX on his radio transmitted the words, "Oh no." The glider impacted in a steep nose-down attitude and then inverted.
It is suspected that no attempt was made by Rich to release since the towline was still attached after impact, and the release and winch were determined to be functioning properly before and after the accident.
With a release that didn't stink on ice "Oh no." would have probably allowed him to walk away. And by the way...
Second truck tow launch of my T2c
A few months back i did my first truck tow launches on a malibu.
This day I set up my glider. This was the second flight of the day for me. Wind was 5-10 about 90 degrees cross from the road.
Once I got up and in the air and on the line below the basetube- i did slip into position behind the truck, wanted to be pulling inline with the spool
Brian Scharp - 2017/02/28 00:55:37 UTC
In terms of avoiding a lockout, you're better off with the keel lining up with the towline, or the control bar perpendicular to it. So with that left cross you'd end up off to the right in order to line up with the towline. Check your video around 0:35 to see some misalignment. Here's an older topic with similar conditions.
...it's a no fuckin' brainer that Rich's fatal lockout was precipitated by him moving into position behind the truck in the crosswind. (Same as John Woiwode's 2005/07/07 mostly fatal lockout.)
There's neither a depth nor an end to the cultural stupidity in this sport.
This seems like it would be inexpensive and easy to rig up.
1. The incident reports and lockout and stall videos we have archived here on Kite Strings are free.
2. Dave Gills was making the Kaluzhin release available for about cost / a little over a hundred bucks. Virtually nobody was interested in this piece of hardware that would've allowed Jeff Bohl to walk away.
3. I got a better idea for a simulator. Keep your keel camera and track recorder running, wait until you start getting knocked on your ear by on off-center thermal blast, then let go of the basetube and hook your right thumb under right shoulder strap for three seconds. Then look at your track log and calculate where you'd have ended up had you been twenty feet off the deck at the beginning of a tow.
Significantly more pilots die from surface and aero tow failures than from failures to deploy reserves yet we have recurring reserve toss clinics with simulations but no AT/ST clinics with emergency procedure simulations.
1. Parachute clinics are wastes of time and resources. Turn the clock back a week before this one:
...relative to the powerlines. (And how 'bout we talk about a guillotine on the driver end for the Mission douchebags who went on to murder a Hang One student on the same winch eleven months ago tomorrow?) Parachute deployments tend to be crap shoots - 'specially for the kinds of individuals who put themselves in the kinds of situations in which fast clean deployments are the last possibly viable options. Parachutes tend to be remedies for incompetence and in the hands of incompetent flyers they tend to cause more problems, damage, injuries than they prevent.
And speaking of parachutes... I think it's a no brainer that your drag chute has cost you about ten thousand times the severity of injury that it might have prevented. Hate to say that 'cause I know you've put a lot of work into those things and they do have their place but on the afternoon of 2014/01/29 at the AJX Happy Acres putting green yours was a half lethal complication and distraction.
2. Tow crashes occur for one or more of five fundamental reasons:
- Infallible Weak Links increasing the safety of the towing operation
- drivers making good decisions in the interest of the gliders' safety
- students being thrown in over their heads
- attempting to launch into dangerous conditions - especially using equipment that stinks on ice
- use of equipment that's:
-- improperly installed, routed, connected
-- obviously cheap shoddy defective shit
-- both of the above
I'd pay to attend such a clinic that was expertly run.
Got anybody in mind? Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney? Dr. Trisa Tilletti? Lauren Eminently-Qualified-Tandem-Pilot Tjaden? Tiki Mashy? Bart Weghorst? Steve Exceptionally-Knowledgeable Wendt? Let's go with...
...Steve - u$hPa's / Wills Wing's official top scooter guy? Why do you think he's never run such a clinic at any time in the past couple decades? Why do you think that nobody anywhere on the planet has ever run such a clinic? Why do you think that videos of righteous stuff aerotow pilots safely terminating lockouts - thermal or deliberately induced - with their Industry Standard easily reachable releases are 100.00 percent nonexistent?
Why should it seem unreasonable to expect a demonstration? Who are you, exactly? Why would it be reasonable? You're the guy getting free information and knowledge, and you're basically demanding MORE free work from the guy spending (wasting?) hours trying to inform and educate. No. It is not reasonable. If I had the video already, of course I'd share it. But I haven't gone out to video-document a theory that I already proved to myself to be true. What would be the point? Why would I spend the time? I care enough to share the info here, and I care enough to even go rounds with you (thus far, but I'm done)... but I guess I don't care enough to go spend a couple hours setting up a glider, running around, filming myself, editing, posting, and then explaining myself to you? If you don't care enough to go outside and try it... then yes, it's unreasonable to expect me to. Don't ya think?
I'm sure others would too.
All this demand. And absolutely no supply. Go figure.
The reason this is a trick question, is the same reason it should be irrelevant that the Lookout release has less mechanical advantage, and may be difficult to use during the high tension of a lock-out. There are other releases (no so common anymore, thankfully) that could become full-on inoperable when the tension increased...
So... are you willing and able to manually release when you believe you are entering an unrecoverable lockout? Hint- if you are *entering* an unrecoverable lockout... you should have already A) steered yourself back where you belong, and if you were unable to do A then do B) release before before BEFORE entering an unrecoverable lockout situation.
Failing to fly the glider where you want it to fly is a serious situation... a lockout is an even more serious situation, but it is a symptom that follows that first problem. Failing to recognize the first problem, and remedy or escape *BEFORE* the following lockout ensues... THAT is what people seem not to get here.
Davis wrote pretty extensively about this when the comp-fatality happened, and even shared how the comp rules were written to ENCOURAGE "when in doubt, just get out". Frankly, a lockout should never happen... it's not a single failure, and it's not a problem with the equipment or with the mechanics or physics of what is being attempted... a lockout can only happen as the result of operator error(S)... plural.
It's really hard to go wrong going with the polar opposite of whatever that little shit is saying. If he tells you that a particular action will roll the glider to the left you can safely bet your life that it'll roll it to the right.
Although there have been many FTHIs, the fatality rate has been minimal lately.
The bullets from the unloaded guns are flying all over the place but people are just getting grazed and flesh wounded.
I have been personally remiss in presenting this simple and life-saving procedure in my videos but finally remembered to do it on yesterday's flight video edit: https://youtu.be/xY_5SB9wfLs?t=4s
I'm always more than happy to see unambiguous clear demonstrations of actual hook-in checks but name the individuals from this current decade who've adopted the proper technique and mindset.
On 2005/10/01 the entire Tennessee Team Challenge comp field watched Bill Priday's glider zoom back up over the Whitwell launch...
...without him and I don't believe one single individual switched to hook-on check mode in response. Instead they listened to his highly esteemed instructor make it clear that it was necessary to be hooked in before running off a cliff.
People with functional brains are reachable. We're wasting our time with the other 99.9 percent of the sport.
Frederick Wagner - 2017/03/11 17:51:01 UTC
Altadena
"Hook in failure revisited
I did it again. In the setup area I hooked my harness in before getting into it. I separated the four straps (each side for main and backup), put the carabineer around two of them, and locked the gate. I gave two more visual inspections. Yes, two straps going through the carabineer and it was locked. On launch my nose man asked me if I was hooked in. I answered with a firm yes because I was certain. By the end of the ramp I could tell something was weird. I tumbled off the end thinking my glider was tumbling with me. After the motion stopped and I stood up, I didn't see my glider. I looked at my carabineer and it was still locked. I must have put it around both straps of only one loop. My eye saw what my brain expected it to see. A physical hang check would have caught my error."
Mid-Feb Hook-In Failure
And here we are in Mid-March. Oh well, better late than never.
Frederick Wagner
Another Greblo product?
"Hook in failure revisited
- Is there another quotation mark somewhere down there where I haven't been able to find it?
- Revisited?
I did it again.
You've had at least one previous unhooked launch? And you STILL can't be bothered to do hook-in checks?
In the setup area I hooked my harness in before getting into it.
Impossible for anything to go wrong with that procedure.
I separated the four straps (each side for main and backup)...
Mike Meier - 2005/08/~18
If the main is properly maintained, and periodically replaced, it is never going to fail anyway, so the backup is sort of pointless. Years ago we didn't even put backup hang loops on our gliders (there's no other component on your glider that is backed up, and there are plenty of other components that are more likely to fail, and where the failure would be just as serious), but for some reason the whole backup hang loop thing is a big psychological need for most pilots.
Good thing you had that backup there, dude. It's a real bitch when your main blows and there's nothing to stop you other than your parachute or the ground, whichever comes first.
...happens to people who insist on spelling "carabiner" that way.
...around two of them, and locked the gate.
Good job. Main and backup and LOCKED - so your carabinEER can't come open.
I gave two more visual inspections. Yes, two straps going through the carabineer and it was locked. On launch my nose man asked me if I was hooked in.
Yeah, if the nose man asks you if you're hooked in and you say yes you've complied with u$hPa's...
With each flight, demonstrates a method of establishing that the pilot is hooked in just prior to launch.
...46 year old hook-in check requirement.
I answered with a firm yes because I was certain.
FUCK YEAH! Just like every other asshole from the history of the sport who's ended up splattered all over the rocks below launch. Me? I always answer with a firm "No fuckin' way, dude. I'm NEVER hooked in. Because the millisecond I become certain I'm hooked in the odds of me ending up splattered all over the rocks below launch go way the fuck up." Like:
09-0625
By the end of the ramp I could tell something was weird.
No shit. I check for weird stuff at the BEGINNING of the ramp where I still have lotsa good options.
I tumbled off the end thinking my glider was tumbling with me.
Bit of a slow learner.
After the motion stopped and I stood up, I didn't see my glider.
Probably in the powerlines about a mile down the road from the LZ.
I looked at my carabineer and it was still locked.
Then you should've been OK. Go figure.
I must have put it around both straps of only one loop. My eye saw what my brain expected it to see.
Blew my kid's head off even though I'd checked that the safety was on. Go figure.
A physical hang check...
...back in the setup area right after I'd completed my assembly and other preflight tasks...
...would have caught my error."
Nah, dickhead. That wasn't your real error.
P.S. What? Too much trouble to give us the launch site? Did you hafta step over one of THESE:
At the beginning of our launch run lift the glider until we clearly feel our leg loops pulling up against the inside of our thighs. This confirms whether or not there is a connection going from our legs to our glider. I have had many acquaintances who did hang checks then slid out of their harnesses in the air and were left dangling by their armpits just like the good ole days of the Batso, Bamboo Butterfly, and Hang Loose. Except they were all flying higher than they'd care to fall.
The Lift and Tug hook-in check is part of the launch run.
No it's not. it's the BEGINNING of the launch SEQUENCE. Adjusting pitch is part of the launch run.
This way if you don't feel the happy tug at your crotch then you know to either abort the run or not even take that first step forward.
If you've taken a step forward before feeling the happy-tug you have FLUNKED. In lotsa launches and/or conditions that first step commits you to aviation. Here's what the requirement DOESN'T state:
With each flight, demonstrates a method of establishing that the pilot is hooked in just prior to or no more than five steps into launch - depending on the confidence level of the pilot in any given situation.
So simple yet so sadly underutilized.
Thanks Jonathan. But you've made it more complicated. You don't start pointing the gun at your head with your finger on the trigger and then do the clearing barrel...
http://clearingbarrels.com/vehicle-clear/
...as an afterthought. And there's an ironclad rule in hang gliding that if you give damn near any of its dickheaded participants a choice about ANYTHING they'll be drawn to the bent versus straight pin barrel releases like flies to dogshit.
That foot doesn't move an inch forward until after the check has been executed two or fewer seconds before. Anyone who operates as such isn't really considering the possibility that he's not connected to his glider.
Rob Kells - 2005/12
Each of us agrees that it is not a particular method, but rather the fear of launching unhooked that makes us diligent to be sure we are hooked in every time before starting the launch run.
Frederick Wagner - 2017/03/11 17:51:01 UTC
On launch my nose man asked me if I was hooked in. I answered with a firm yes because I was certain.
Funny we haven't yet heard anything from Grebloville Joe about his Four or Five Cs on this one.
We're requiring instructors to submit plans for how they run their schools, operate at their training sites, handle emergencies and a lot more. It's a burden, I realize, but the goal is improved safety. If this year's results are anything to go by, it's having a positive effect.
I separated the four straps (each side for main and backup), put the carabineer around two of them, and locked the gate. I gave two more visual inspections. Yes, two straps going through the carabineer and it was locked.
I looked at my carabineer and it was still locked. I must have put it around both straps of only one loop.
On launch my nose man asked me if I was hooked in. I answered with a firm yes because I was certain.
He had a nose man. Which means that there was a fair bit of air coming in. Which means that all he had to do was nose the fuckin' glider up a bit into the turbulent jet stream. Which would've required even less time and effort than answering with a with a firm yes because he was CERTAIN he was hooked in.
Sorry, I don't see the logic in trying to save a couple bucks on equipment that I am litterally entrusting my life to. "Pacifier"? may be... but there's an old saying out there... "You never need the backup, until you need the backup".
I know of at least one pilot out there that flies with two caribiners. His logic makes more sense to me... you can't have too many backups.
...minus the idiot fucking backup loop. The one below would've been a lot less likely to have happened on the shitrigged system minus the idiot fucking backup loop.
Doug Hildreth - 1992/01
1991/11/03 - Leonard Rabbitz - 55 - Intermediate, several years - UP Comet I - Elizabethville, Pennsylvania - Fatal: severe pelvic fractures
Improper hook-in. Pilot was ready to launch into ideal conditions, did a hang check, and launched. At about 30 feet altitude, there was a loud snap, the pilot fell to the basetube and was holding on to the basetube with his armpits. The glider pitched down and descended into the trees at the top end of the launch slot. On impact, the glider was ejected from the glider and fell 40 feet to the ground. He died four hours later in the operating room of uncontrolled bleeding from his pelvic fractures.
Investigation showed that instead of the standard hang loop arrangement, both the primary and backup loops were draped over the keel. To keep the loops positioned, he had tied them together with light cord. This resulted in four loops that had to be hooked through the carabiner for the system to work.
Evidently the pilot only hooked through two of the loops, and the cord held his weight during the hang check. But with the launch pull-out, the small extra G force resulted in the cord breaking (or the loops pulling through) and the loops being no longer attached to the glider. Later inspection showed the carabiner was firmly locked to two intact hang loops.
Comment: This is another example of a "home made" modification causing a fatality. One would think that in such a system the pilot would "know" that he always had to have four loops through the carabiner. Perhaps during setup his system became asymmetric, with two ends hanging down and the other two ends pulled up toward the keel, leaving only two available. But with this postulation, he would have been hanging a couple of inches lower than usual. Did the pilot notice it? Would you?
Another issue from this example is that of standardization of the hang loop level. One of the causes of "modified" hang strap arrangements is that there is no standard height for the hang loop. In other words, when I am adjusted with my harness to my glider and I want to fly a different glider, I will almost certainly hang too high or too low, so I modify the system. The recently condemned three-carabiner chain is an example. I suspect there is a good chance that this fatality report is another.
If all manufacturers were to agree that the hang loop would be located X inches above the basetube, then once your harness is adjusted, it will fit any glider perfectly. Of course the current solution is to simply order a hang strap of the proper length. It's easy to do. They are readily available. They are not expensive. But it is a bit of a hassle to measure and order and wait... so most pilots don't do it. And on the spur of the moment out on the hill they rig something up.
And of course that would mean that the harness manufacturers would have to vary the length of the harness hang strap for those who like to hang higher or lower than average. But there would not be many. Or those few pilots who don't like the "standard" height off the bar could get a different length hang loop from the glider manufacturer.
But this is not the first time someone has died from a modified hang loop. And it won't be the last. And you've all seen (and done) some shortening or lengthening of the loop that may not have been "up to code" and gotten away with it. But you know in your heart it wasn't the best.
My point is, let's have those in the industry consider this idea of standardization again (I can't imagine they haven't considered it before). Remember this: there may be a lot of arguments as to why not, but it WILL save lives.
Note that Wills Wing won't in a million years equip their gliders with quality built-in aerotow releases because their gliders aren't intended to be towed. And they know bloody goddam well that there will continue to be a wacko high fatal crash rate as a consequence of this passive negligence. But if the idiot masses call for some moronic piece o' crap like a backup loop that does NOTHING but make the glider pricier, heavier, draggier, significantly more complex, and WAY MORE dangerous... Hey, no problem. Customer's always right.
I'm glad he's OK too Bob - in no small part for your sake. I know how emotionally devastating it is for you every time one of our brethren buys a farm.
I'm also glad he's OK 'cause the sport can't afford to lose any more staunch hang check advocates.
physical hang check would have caught my error."
Oh. THAT's where the other quotation mark went. The whole goddam thing - title and message - is in quotes. Without attribution. Thanks bigtime, Frederick.
There are several hook-in failure modes. The various "solutions" are all vulnerable to at least one of them.
In other words, all foot launchers are just rolling dice. An unhooked launch is pretty much inevitable for anyone who flies long and often enough. That's what you get with so-called "solutions".
Fuck you, Bob. Assembly, preflight, hook-in check. That's the SOLUTION - singular - and there is no failure mode. If you do your job as a hang glider PILOT you will NEVER launch unhooked. If you can't do your job you can wind up dead. Same as pretty much any other issue - other preflight items, launch, weather, traffic, landing - one cares to name. A REAL instructor doesn't tell his students that the "solutions" he's teaching are crap shoots.
This fucking asshole failed to:
- remove the fucking backup loop
- connect to his hang loop
- preflight his connection
- comply with the hook-in check requirement specified in every rating he ever scored
"Solutions" is what merits the quotation marks. Try "pilot" instead.
Any technique that convinces you that you're "covered" is creating a false sense of security.
1. Check the title of this thread, dickhead. And then make sure you don't refer anyone to it. Ditto for my...
For my part I will just refer you to the classic Tad Eareckson essay which I call "the gun is always loaded" which is a bit overworked but probably all you will ever need to read regarding FTHI. A lot of people will find it gores their particular sacred Ox, but I have never seen anyone point out a flaw in his logic.
...essay.
2. Lift and tug creates a false sense of security even amongst the handful of individuals doing things right and constantly assuming they're unhooked.
Use as many as you can (aussie, hang check, hook in check, lift and tug...)...
Sorry, I don't see the logic in trying to save a couple bucks on equipment that I am litterally entrusting my life to. "Pacifier"? may be... but there's an old saying out there... "You never need the backup, until you need the backup".
I know of at least one pilot out there that flies with two caribiners. His logic makes more sense to me... you can't have too many backups.
We have now rounded up all the usual suspects and promised renewed vigilance, nine page checklists, hang checks every six feet, et cetera. Bob Gillisse redux.
A hang check is part of preflighting your equipment. You do it in the setup area - not on the launch or the ramp. When you get in line you are hooked in and ready to go. No going down for a hang check cum hook in check.
i've been preaching this stuff for a long time... that's the irony... i was one of those 'hang checks will save you' guys.
christ... my email was jim @hangcheck.com!
i was the religious finatic about checking.
i did do hookin checks (after hang checks)
i did all the stuff you guys are saying will save you
guess what?
all that stuff is good stuff to do... it helps with other problems. but it helps with other problems.
if you think that you're immune to omissions because you this, or you do that, then god help you.
Birds of a fuckin' feather.
...but always be fearful that your best efforts might fail you. Then check one more time.
When and how, Bob? Couple seconds prior to launch by lifting your wing into the turbulent jet stream? Or by doing a...
Luen Miller - 1994/11
After a short flight the pilot carried his glider back up a slope to relaunch. The wind was "about ten miles per hour or so, blowing straight in." Just before launch he reached back to make sure his carabiner was locked. A "crosswind" blew through, his right wing lifted, and before he was able to react he was gusted sixty feet to the left side of launch into a pile of "nasty-looking rocks." He suffered a compound fracture (bone sticking out through the skin) of his upper right leg. "Rookie mistake cost me my job and my summer. I have a lot of medical bills and will be on crutches for about five months."
...more thorough/proper inspection.
2. Please describe for me a hook-in check that ISN'T lift and tug.
3. Aussie Methodism prohibits execution of any procedure that can be considered a hook-in check.
I'm really glad you're O.K. Freddy.
And I'm really glad to see all the great discussion, participation, progress being generated by his single post. Think of all the people who must be quietly modifying their procedures because of it without making any public statements.
How much more evidence do we need before we accept the fact that God inspired the sport of hang gliding solely as a mechanism for helping to clean up the human gene pool?
I have a question about this. Did you say you had the harness hanging off the ground from the setup glider before you got into it? You then got into the harness, all without dislodging the caribiner from the straps?
Frederick Wagner - 2017/03/23 22:55:18 UTC
Sorry for the lack of clarity...I posted this for someone who...
...se name, rating, signoff instructors could be of no possible interest to any reader.
...flies a ton and has launched unhooked before, and just couldn't get the website to work
Serial unhooked launcher, also too fuckin' stupid to be able to post on a club website. Big surprise.
As my dad and I discussed Monday night...
...after reading and viewing the material to which Brian linked and finding it too vacuous to be worthy of any comment whatsoever...
...I think it's interesting to notice that familiarity seems to create unreliability with human perception.
- Yeah, ya have loaded firearms all around the house all the time ya tend to stop worrying about the possibility of one of your kids getting his head blown off by one of them.
- Wow. Hang gliding - the only flavor of aviation in which the more experienced you are the more likely you are to make an off-the-scale stupid fatal mistake. "Come fly tandem with me. I've only got ten hours of airtime so there's virtually no possibility of an unhooked launch incident." Somebody find something analogous in a branch that ISN'T controlled and administered by total dickheads.
We're so wired to move our attention on to the new things. (I no longer give conscious attention to moving my leg forward, as I presumable did when first learning to walk.)
- Yeah, here I am starting to run a hundred pounds of glider and harness which may or may not be safely connected to each other off a steep ramp a thousand feet over the valley...
P.S. Why don't you just pave all your launch approaches with Dan DeWeese's award winning "Hook In!" plaques? How could a strategy like that possibly fail? And if you note the total absence of mentions of these in all of these discussions you get a real good idea of just how much of a total scam they are.
- Here's a thought... Wire yourself to fear unhooked launches and get lift and tug programmed into muscle memory as the first physical action in your launch sequence just like you have stuffing the bar in response to a stall. That's what I've done and neither of those conditionings has ever come anywhere close to failing me.
I'm interested in "Wow, knowing that, what kind of techniques could I created to compensate for the growing unreliability of my perception as my familiarity increases with something that is life-threatening?" I ride around in this body with all its neurology, and this is a characteristic of how that neurology performs.
You're fucked, Frederick. People who are too goddam stupid to be able to be thinking about the possibility of launching unhooked every time they pick up a glider on a ramp or accidentally blowing someone's head off every time they pick up an unloaded gun have no fuckin' business being involved with either.
Rob Kells - 2005/12
Each of us agrees that it is ... the fear of launching unhooked that makes us diligent to be sure we are hooked in every time before starting the launch run.
There's not a goddam thing I can do to help assholes like you and your dad, I'm not gonna lift another finger towards trying, and I don't want you sticking around further crudding up an already rotten gene pool anyway.
Joe Greblo - 2017/03/24 16:40:23 UTC
My thoughts..
Oh. You're having THOUGHTS now? When did that start happening?
I've witnessed a pilot hoist the glider upwards just prior to launch and, while convinced he was hooked in, he wasn't.
- Sounds like you were pretty convinced too. I notice you didn't do shit to suggest anything otherwise before he made this potentially lethal error.
- Good. I hope he was killed - or at the very least lost his ability to reproduce. What kind of total fucking moron convinces himself that he's hooked in upon hoisting a glider upwards (as opposed to hoisting the glider downwards) just prior to launch? That's a total misuse of the procedure. A person with a functional brain will ALWAYS be questioning himself about how well he did in the assembly and preflight departments as he's fast approaching the point of no return.
- And fuck you too, Joe. Any competent observer in the vicinity of launch would've noted that he wasn't hooked in BEFORE he started his launch run. Whenever I'm around a ramp I'm doing nothing but looking at carabiners and noting that nobody's doing hook-in checks. All other issues pale by comparison. And how many other assholes were crewing or hanging around launch allowing this bullshit to happen?
Hoisting the glider upwards without a visual inspection can fail and has.
- Yeah Joe. Always put the glider back down so you can...
Luen Miller - 1994/11
After a short flight the pilot carried his glider back up a slope to relaunch. The wind was "about ten miles per hour or so, blowing straight in." Just before launch he reached back to make sure his carabiner was locked. A "crosswind" blew through, his right wing lifted, and before he was able to react he was gusted sixty feet to the left side of launch into a pile of "nasty-looking rocks." He suffered a compound fracture (bone sticking out through the skin) of his upper right leg. "Rookie mistake cost me my job and my summer. I have a lot of medical bills and will be on crutches for about five months."
...do that all important visual inspection for the thirtieth time. It's critically important that you never have your shit totally together by the time you get to the back of the ramp. And there are plenty of other potentially lethal issues you might have missed in the setup area. So to really do things right you need to unhook on the ramp and do a thorough final walkaround inspection. (Just make sure it doesn't include a stomp test. You don't wanna be Work Hardening wires and grinding them into sharp rocks at this point.)
- Yeah. You ALWAYS need a visual inspection of the connection. And that's best and most safely done while you're making it. And the ramp is NEVER the place to do it UNLESS arrival at the ramp unconnected...
...is intentional. (And at the launches at which there's a soundly based protocol for not approaching the ramp connected unhooked launches are nonexistent.)
We have now rounded up all the usual suspects and promised renewed vigilance, nine page checklists, hang checks every six feet, et cetera. Bob Gillisse redux.
A hang check is part of preflighting your equipment. You do it in the setup area - not on the launch or the ramp. When you get in line you are hooked in and ready to go. No going down for a hang check cum hook in check.
Total fucking shithead.
- Bullshit. Hoisting the glider upwards without a visual inspection canNOT fail and hasN'T ever. Hoisting the glider upward will ALWAYS provide 100.00 percent accurate information. If the asshole under the wing has fucked up assembly, preflight, and INTERPRETATION of the information it is HE who's failed - not the TEST. ("Not seeing or hearing any tigers in this neck of the jungle... Must be 'cause there aren't any around.")
A hook-in check CANNOT tell you whether your carabiner's securely engaged or:
The feedback will be IDENTICAL. (Ditto for the goddam stupid useless hang check.) If you launch with a partial after having done a hook-in check it won't be 'cause the hook-in check was defective and failed. It'll be 'cause YOU failed to assemble and preflight competently. But let's blame the hook-in check anyway ('cause it lets us off the hook (so to speak)) and chuck it forever outta our safe launch toolkit. The Tad-O-Link didn't prevent the lockout idiot fucking Paul Tjaden experienced while he was flying pro toad through violent Zapata thermal blasts with his left hand while fucking around with his VG cord with his right. So let's shitcan it and go back to a nice safe Marzec Link.
There is no fool proof way to prevent hook in failure...
There isn't one sure-fire answer.
If there was, we'd all be doing it already. This thread I think makes this obvious... every single thing people have put forth as "the way", someone else has show how it can fail. Every single one. Argue about the details, but every single one fails.
...NOBODY has any business flying hang gliders. ACTUAL PILOTS *NEVER* engage in DICE ROLLING ACTIVITIES. Nobody has the RIGHT to risk doing THIS:
to himself and burden society with the millions of dollars it takes to pick up the pieces and support whatever's left. Nobody has the right to cleanly kill himself at a flying site either 'cause that ALSO exacts all kinds of astronomical prices to others - as well as the sport itself.
These "variables" make the "stomp test" unreliable, and maybe risky, in my opinion. YMMV.
Red Howard - 2017/03/21 17:00:48 UTC
...I believe...
...I also believe...
...(I believe)...
...My take: I believe...
...BELIEVER assholes - and the horses you rode in on.
...the following...
Pilots who are confident their system is good and they won't make this mistake are the most likely to do it.
Fuck you, Joe. I'm a hundred percent POSITIVE that I won't make that idiot mistake because my system is to be scared shitless every single time I'm in the five second window prior to commitment. And even when I'm on a shallow sand dune I use the mindset that I'm actually on the cliff at Whitwell. And that strategy has NEVER FAILED ANYONE who's adopted it.
The best chance of preventing this is to make a strong habitual "hook in check" the last thing ever done before starting the run.
Sorry Joe. I stopped listening at the word "chance". I don't do anything on a glider that involves chance.
This is often phrased "within 10 seconds of starting the run".
By whom? What kind of total moron does a hook-in check and stands around assuming he's hooked in for ten seconds? What kind of total moron pulls up to the stop sign at the edge of the four lane highway he's about to cross, checks that there's an adequate break in the traffic, waits ten seconds, and proceeds across assuming he's still good to go?
If 10 seconds go by, then do it again.
And by "hook in check" this shithead means set the glider down, turn around, look at the carabiner, touch it to make real sure, turn back around forward, pick up the glider, see if the cycle's still good.
Yes. Confirmed. See below.
If you do this, you will find yourself making multiple hook in checks for many flights.
Just watch Greg Kendall on launch and you'll see this in action. The odds are very low that he will fail to hook in in the future.
- What are the odds that he will fail to hook in in the past?
- Why do we need to watch Greg Kendall? You're obviously holding his procedure up as the paramount practice to prevent an unhooked launch. So obviously that's also what you're doing yourself to set the example and teaching all your Grebloville students. So we should be seeing everybody at Kagel, Crestline, Dockweiler... doing the same. But we know that this is total bullshit 'cause you yourself don't do SHIT...
...once you've left the setup area. Ditto for your untold hundreds of idiot Grebloville products. Your Grebloville unhooked launch rate is a global disgrace and you deserve to be stood up in front of a fuckin' wall.
Note, people of varying ages, that this is such a rare practice that video evidence of it is virtually nonexistent.
Brian Scharp - 2017/03/25 17:07:00 UTC
Joe Greblo - 2017/03/24 16:40:23 UTC
I've witnessed a pilot hoist the glider upwards just prior to launch and, while convinced he was hooked in, he wasn't. Hoisting the glider upwards without a visual inspection can fail and has.
Can you elaborate a little? Did the "pilot" fail to hoist the glider far enough to feel the tug that a connection provides? What convinced him he was hooked in? Was there a connection that produced a tug, but not substantial enough to support full body weight?
NMERider - 2017/03/26 04:33:30 UTC
Well, there was this post on an earlier but recent thread in which the poster has never elaborated on how this all played out.
I no longer use the lift and feel the leg loops. Because I launched unhooked, the rear wires lifted my harness not the hang strap.
It would be interesting to see the poster take the same harness and same model glider and recreate exactly how they got fooled into believing they were hooked in when they weren't.
Who really gives a flying fuck? He totally screwed the pooch on assembly and preflight and failed to clear his harness from his tail wires before doing his check and executing his launch. Even if he had been hooked in launching with the boot of his harness snagged in the wires could've been lethally problematic.
And a glider that resists a lift 'cause the boot is snagged on the tail wires feels NOTHING like a glider that comes to a solid even stop as a consequence of properly connected and routed suspension. It's gonna mush and pitch nose down. That should've set off all kinds of really loud warning bells.
In establishing solid operating procedures we're not trying to save every stupid incompetent total douchebag capable of picking up a glider and carrying it to launch. It can't be done and we DON'T WANT TO anyway. The person we wanna save is the guy who's intelligent enough to always be afraid that he's missed or screwed something up by the time he's gotten to launch position; is competent and conscientious enough to set up, assemble, preflight; and hasn't connected or has disconnected himself due to the common and inevitable issues of distraction, interruption, fatigue, psychological stress.
The dickhead you quoted... "Well I did absolutely nothing right in the ten minutes prior to commitment but the reason I launched unhooked was due totally to the lift and tug procedure - nothing at all to do with the fact that I'm an incompetent, negligent, total shithead - so I'm placing all the blame on the critical safety procedure that I butchered and permanently shitcanning it as punishment. If it hadn't been for lift and tug I'd have been fine and would've had an awesome flying day." Why do we want a douchebag like that hanging out in the gene pool and constantly working overtime to make the sport more dangerous for everyone else?
The person we wanna save isn't even gonna execute the lift and tug to catch a dangling carabiner. Just the thought of doing it is gonna trigger the memory of him unhooking to retrieve his cell phone from the car. Missed leg loops have been caught by lift and tug but I'm having a hard time remembering an incident in which the wing just kept going up.
Instead what I see here is the wholesale disparagement of what many consider to be the single-most effective and applicable hook-in check ever devised in the history of the sport of hang gliding.
Fuck what "many consider". I don't even wanna remember the pre Marzec decades in which everyone and his dog considered a single loop of 130 pound Greenspot the ideal one-size-fits-all pitch and lockout protector for solo aerotowing. This IS the single-most effective and applicable hook-in check ever devised in the history of the sport of hang gliding. It's pretty much the ONLY one - the stuff the Joe and Greg describe is dangerous preflight crap. But it's gotta be paired with the gun-is-always-loaded mindset.
It's a technique whose invention I had absolutely nothing to do with and one that has been around for over 30 years.
Make that forty years:
Hang Gliding - 1977/10
Failure to Hook Up
During the Nationals two people forgot to hook up before flying. I was one of them. The one thing which made my failure to hook-up totally inexcusable is that I had a passenger with me.
My passenger and I had prepared to take off four times, including a static check the first time. Each time the wind died I unhooked while Cindy remained attached the glider. The last time we moved into position. I made sure she was hooked in, then I sat down next to her. We waited about five minutes, until the wind blew up the hill. We picked the glider up and I felt the tension of the harness, only it was the tension from her harness I felt, not mine. The take off run went great and airspeed picked up rapidly. By the time I realized something was wrong, Cindy was flying off a 900' hill on her first solo flight. As I watched in horror, she made a porpoising flight, a 180 degree turn, and then made a safe landing. She suffered a few scratches and the glider was undamaged.
I want to apologize to the people of Heavener, and everybody involved with the meet for almost leaving a horrible scar on the Nationals. I especially want to apologize to Cindy for taking her life into my hands and then committing such a careless error.
I used to say such a thing could never happen to me, but now I know it can happen to anybody. So everybody please be careful.
That's the first reference I've been able to find.
I only learned it in the past few years.
Great instructional system we got, ain't it Jonathan?
Meanwhile numerous pilots have performed hang checks and a multitude of other techniques only to launch with no leg loops and no chest strap and have slid out of their harnesses in the air.
Don't forget unhooked altogether. A hang check can't be performed "just prior to launch" and lotsa shit can happen between the check and launch - and has. That was the whole point for the:
With each flight, demonstrates a method of establishing that the pilot is hooked in just prior to launch.
amendment to the SOPs - totally ignored though it has been ever since.
The pilot...
The WHAT?
...who proffers the claim could easily recreate how he got fooled into believing he was hooked in when he wasn't.
Lift and tug never fools a REAL pilot into believing he's hooked in whether or not he actually is. I don't start relaxing with respect to that issue until several seconds after it's too late to do anything about it. Nobody's ever been scratched as a consequence of assuming he WASN'T hooked in.
What I gather is his Moyes Matrix race harness somehow got draped over the rear wires of his Moyes Litespeed...
Probably gremlins or pedophiles or sumpin'. No fuckin' way an awesome pilot like Phill could've been responsible for a stupid fuckup like that.
...and when he lifted his glider, the rear wires lifted his harness enough to tug at his leg loops. This would be worth knowing more about.
Why? Is this a hitherto unknown problem that we really don't know how to properly deal with at this point?
Meanwhile the tens or hundreds of thousands of safe launches that were preceded by the lift and tug hook-in check should all be tossed out along with the obviously worthless method.
Any idea how much death and destruction was wrought by standard aerotow weak link inconveniences before many of us became happy with Tad-O-Links?
Meanwhile pilots are often left up on launch alone and in gusty ramp conditions where it's grossly unsafe to do anything other than launch when in proximity to the ramp.
2015/08/24 - Craig Pirazzi
Yet it's so easy to allow the glider to rise up or to lift it high enough to tell whether there's a connection between the glider and one's crotch just prior to committing to that run.
What about the turbulent jet stream Bob assures us is always churning six inches above wing altitude when the glider's safely snugged down on one's shoulders?
Now a hook-in check does not mean you won't somehow separate from your glider. A U.S. pilot in Mexico completely separated from his glider in almost exactly the same way that the Sylmar pilot separated from his in the OP.
Oh good. So we don't need to worry about that one either.
Both pilots had a false connection between their carabiner and their main hang strap due to interference from their backup hang strap.
But you need that backup strap for when your main fails.
The pilot in Mexico safely deployed his reserve and lived to fly another day.
How did I manage to miss this one?
There have been other documented cases where the hang strap was not properly attached to the glider but was strong enough to withstand a hang check and strong enough to get into the air but was not strong enough to survive flying for any duration and the pilot fell away.
Instead of plummeting down safely attached to his glider - like what can happen when a Marzec Link increases the safety of a towing operation.
In any of these cases the lift and tug would have revealed only that there was a connection between the glider and the pilot's legs. If a pilot does his job of pre-flight and other maintenance correctly then a lift and tug hook-in check can verify that you are not launching disconnected and it can be done all alone and in turbulent ramp conditions.
Nah. Keep it snugged down on your shoulders. Ya just never know whether or not there's a turbulent jet stream lurking just above your wing and if you connect with it you'll regret not risking an unhooked launch twenty times over.
In order for a racing pod harness to give a false positive to the lift and tug to the pilot's legs it should also produce downward pressure on the pilot's shoulders due to the see-saw effect of being lifted from the rear of the back plate by the rear wires and tugging against the pilot's legs. The resulting force will be the front of the back plate pressing downward upon the pilot's shoulders. It's up to the pilot to notice this and realize something isn't kosher.
'Specially the pilot who screws the assembly and preflight pooches.
I cannot see this happen if the riser is connected to the glider in which case it should lift the back plate away from the pilot. I have done numerous lift and tugs with my Covert race harness and my T2C...
How were you able to handle all the false senses of security you were given?
...and never gotten it snagged on the rear wires but my glider does not have the rear wires pinched together like Moyes gliders. So I guess a Moyes pilot flying a Matrix harness will have to be aware of the telltale downward pressure on his shoulders from his back plate during a lift and tug.
Moyes pilots are mostly Australians and it would be totally moronic for an Australian to do a hook-in check because none of them ever get into a harness that isn't safely connected to a glider.
And not a word of response from Joe yet over fifteen hours later. He's taught a preflight check at launch position and skip the hook-in check since the beginning of time and if it's anything he hasn't been teaching it's not worth talking about or looking at.
allowing this bullshit to happen?
