LMFP Release Dysfunction

[Tad Eareckson]

I do not know anything about the LMFP release...

Right. Fortunately I do. So let's try ANOTHER review of the issues. Try to pay attention this time 'cause I'm getting real tired of writing endless reruns.

The total asshole who'd been pumping THIS notorious piece o' crap...

Ralph Sickinger - 2000/08/26 22:18:20 UTC

After towing to altitude, Sunny waved me off; I pulled on the release (hard), but nothing happened! After the second failed attempt to release, I thought about releasing from the secondary, but before I could move my hand the tug stalled and started to fall; Sunny had no choice but to gun the engine in attempt to regain flying speed, but this resulted in a sudden and severe pull on the harness and glider; I was only able to pull on the release again, while simultaneously praying for the weak link to break. The release finally opened, and I was free of the tug.

...into the atmosphere for a decade and a half or so about two and a half years ago handed Marc Fink an untested prototype of a NEW piece o' crap to slap on his glider and take for a ride. (While this WAS unbelievably unconscionable, if you're gonna take a reasonably good chance on snuffing your guinea pig - Marc's not a bad choice.)

Since Matt's too goddam unprofessional to build a test rig like...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8317889807/


...I and other responsible people have, he shipped a copy to Wills Wing in hopes that they'd do his job for him. When that didn't work the lying sonuvabitch conned ME down to his lair so I'D do his job for him. It actually bench tested pretty well but it was still an overbuilt piece o' crap. I guess the thinking was that they'd sell a lot better and for a lot more than they would if he put them together the way Joe Street did just using a two and a half dollar parachute pin as the core mechanism to get something that WORKED.

...other than some people report having problems with it...

Yeah. Like one hundred percent of the people on this microscopic little forum who've tried to use it. Also seems like one hundred percent of the people on The Jack Show who've weighed in with experiences can't get it to work when they need it to. Extrapolating to the rest of the population I'm getting one hundred percent experiencing problems and zero percent not experiencing problems. What you YOU get when you do the math?

...in certain situations.

Yeah, just in the air when you try to use it as a release. Always works great during the standard Diev Hart twenty pound function test on the stationary launch cart.

There is no product liability insurance covering this gear and we do not warrant this gear as suitable for towing anything.

EXACTLY as Matt tells the proud new owner in the manual he gets AFTER he's paid for it. What it DOES work REALLY WELL for is enhancing Matt's bottom line.

I saw Diev's response as logical and what worked for him.

Yeah.

- EXACTLY the way the Wanderer worked for George Worthington...

Rick Masters - 1982/09/10

The wings were folded together. The fuselage and left wing lay upside down on top of the right wing. Jeff crouched down and looked up inside the fuselage. George was there, still strapped in. There was blood all over his face but he wasn't bleeding.

George was still gripping the canopy frame. We pried his fingers loose. There was blood everywhere from a gash on his head.

We attempted CPR. Joey gave mouth-to-mouth while I worked his chest. Soon our clothes were soaked with George's blood. I think we both knew he was dead, we just couldn't accept it.

...right up until the moment when it DIDN'T.

- EXACTLY the way a Steve Wendt style truck tow release does just fine...

Doug Hildreth - 1990/09

Immediately after launch, the glider pitched up sharply with nose very high. Apparently the angle caused an "auto release" of the towline from the pilot, who completed a hammerhead stall and dove into the ground. Observer felt that a dust devil, invisible on the runway, contributed or caused the relatively radical nose-up attitude. Also of concern was the presumed auto release which, if it had not occurred, might have prevented the accident. Severe head injury with unsuccessful CPR.

...until you really need it to and it doesn't.

He did not present himself as an all-knowing expert.

Totally agree with you there. He's presenting himself as a stupid little boy ignoring the rules and playing with very dangerous toys he doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of understanding. You see people like that get bit all the time - some worse than others.

From where I sit, all hg towing releases have some sort of issue.

Where exactly do you sit?

If you sit in a Dragonfly at - or way more frequently - way beyond the limit of your intellectual abilities hauling gliders up all your life does that make you qualified to design or evaluate anything?

From where you sit what issues do Broyles, Brooks, Lake, three-ring, multi-string, panic snap, Joe Street, Linknife, Koch two stage, straight pin barrel, Russian bite, Dragonfly, and Tost sailplane releases have?

Or are you just sitting next to some asshole bent pin tug driver with a brain half the size of a walnut listening to him tell you how it's beyond the scope of human engineering to develop a mechanism which reliably lets go of one end of a string more than two out of three times? So you might as well buy the crap we're selling at the counter. And don't forget to pick up a hook knife or two for when it doesn't work.

Towing knowledge seem to follow the "10 blind men describing the elephant" model.

ABSOLUTELY. That's 'cause the people running these shows couldn't get through a high school physics class with guns to their heads. The vast majority of them can't cut grade school math and science.

An instructor teaches you the safe way to use his release.

Right.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3107
I have a tandem rating!!!

Lauren Tjaden - 2008/03/23 22:20:15 UTC

When Jim got me locked out to the right, I couldn't keep the pitch of the glider with one hand for more than a second (the pressure was a zillion pounds, more or less), but the F'ing release slid around when I tried to hit it. The barrel release wouldn't work because we had too much pressure on it.

Anyhow, the tandem can indeed perform big wingovers, as I demonstrated when I finally got separated from the tug.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3648
Oh no! more on weak links

Carlos Weill - 2008/11/30 19:24:09 UTC

On June of 2008 during a fast tow, I noticed I was getting out of alignment, but I was able to come back to it. The second time it happen I saw the tug line 45 deg off to the left and was not able to align the glider again I tried to release but my body was off centered and could not reach the release. I kept trying and was close to 90 deg. All these happen very quickly, as anyone that has experienced a lock out would tell you. I heard a snap, and then just like the sound of a WWII plane just shut down hurdling to the ground, only the ball of fire was missing. The tug weak link broke off at 1000ft, in less than a second the glider was at 500ft. At that point I realized I had the rope, so I drop it in the parking lot.

Mistake #1 Did not stay behind the tug
Mistake #2 Did not release earlier
Mistake #3 Did not use the secondary

Anyone who wants recommendations for their towing or training, you have a great pool of knowledge in the tow parks especially from the ones that do it regularly and have the experience in the tug and behind the tug.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TUGS/message/1149
aerotow instruction was Re: Tug Rates

Tracy Tillman - 2011/02/10 20:08:32 UTC

Anybody who is truly a good pilot, in any form of aviation, knows that the knowledge, skills, and judgement you have in your head, learned from thorough instruction from a good instructor with a good curriculum, are the best pieces of equipment you can fly with. Good equipment is important, the best equipment is a well-trained brain. The ironic thing about flight training is that it is the student who avoids getting thorough instruction because they are paranoid about getting gouged is actually self-gouging a chunk of knowledge they should have out of their own brain.

Don't ever get into a situation in which you NEED to release 'cause if you do the equipment that these total douchebags send you up with won't work.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TUGS/message/1165
aerotow instruction

Tad Eareckson - 2011/02/12 09:14:49 UTC

Yeah Tracy, don't worry about having sane standards for the equipment to do these jobs 'cause nobody with a well-trained brain is ever gonna be in a situation like that below five hundred feet. Fucking moron.

And you teach engineering? Un freaking believable.

(Don't worry. It wasn't a friendship I valued very much to begin with. (And SOMEBODY had to say it.))

I truly hope that Tad's release works without any issues, 100% of the time.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=939
Weak link breaks?

Dan Tomlinson - 2005/08/31 00:33:01 UTC

Tad's post is difficult to read but I've seen his work. His release mechanism is elegant in its simplicity and effectiveness.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=233
AT releases

Hugh McElrath - 2005/03/05 17:02:56 UTC

Thanks, Tad. I was too green to fully appreciate your system when you showed it to me a couple of years ago. Now I'm more interested. Do I have to fabricate this myself from parts or are you in business?

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
weak links

Brian Vant-Hull - 2007/07/21 13:00:33 UTC

I'll be lazy and ask if any of your references give a physical reason for the 0.8 to 2 g range they quote as safe. If not, constructing a reasonable physical argument could be a major contribution. You clearly have the physics down well enough (as good as anyone else in the world) to do so.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3347
Tad's barrel release tested

Janni Papakrivos - 2008/06/30 15:35:44 UTC

Tad showed me the release system he installed in Hugh's glider. I was amazed at the quality and complexity of the system. Being able to tow and release without ever having to take your hands off the base tube is wonderful and much safer.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=11497
Aerotow release options?

John Glime - 2009/04/13 18:09:32 UTC

Not being constructive? There is one person who has put more thought and time into releases than anyone. That person is Tad. He explains the pros and cons to every release out there. I gave you the link to more release information than the average person could ever digest, and I didn't get a thank you. Just you bitching that we aren't being constructive. What more could you want? He has created something that is a solution, but no one is using it... apparently you aren't interested either. So what gives??? What do you want us to tell you? Your concerns echo Tad's concerns, so why not use his system? Every other system out there has known flaws.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=12587
weak links (here we go)

Patrick Halfhill - 2009/06/21 23:22:23 UTC

You and I met at the ECC a few years ago. We spent 45 minutes or more together going over your system. I saw it first hand. I was quite impressed with the quality of engineering and the time you spent on it.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=11497
Aerotow release options?

Walt Conklin (Windlord) - 2009/05/03 16:19:44 UTC
Montana

Very nice engineering, Tad. I can see a lot of thought went into the systems and there is always room to "build a better mousetrap".

Every system we use in this sport can be improved on. Look where we progressed from since I first flew in 71'.

Zack C - 2011/01/10 14:28:40 UTC

When I first saw your release years ago on the Oz Report forum my impression was the same as most people's. I didn't know what the pictures were showing but it looked way more complicated than it needed to be. After seeing the problems that even the best releases on the market have and learning more about your release, however, I understand why you made it the way you did and the advantages it provides.

Yeah, miguel, it actually does. The problem is that for every person who works his ass off to make positive changes in this sport...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=14663
Aerotow Incident

Diev Hart - 2009/12/02 06:45:13 UTC

I'm Tad...

..."well now if you had my mouth release this would have never even been an issue"...

The same goes for the finger string on the basetube release for that matter...

...there's three or four thousand mouthy little punk clones who get tons of enjoyment pissing all over anything that looks anything remotely like an individual accomplishment.

But that's OK. LOTSA times these guys prove real useful sources of crash data if you're willing to wait a couple of years until their string of luck runs out. And it's ALWAYS well more than worth the wait when it happens.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=592
Linknife

Steve Davy - 2011/07/19 07:56:11 UTC

You all could have learned a thing or two but your big fat egos got in the way.
Happy new year.

Jim Gaar - 2011/07/19 15:02:57 UTC

He's always right and we are wrong?

That's a QUESTION?

Just look at your idiot posts at:

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14903
New Lookout Release--preliminary test

and

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=22540
LMFP release dysfunction

And you're putting a QUESTION MARK at the end of that sentence?

And who are you to make that statement?

I dunno. Someone who can READ maybe?

There are a number of us in here that have put up with Tad for years (and on other forums).

And who was forcing y'all to read his posts?

He never changes his story or his approach.

Yeah, Blind, two and two always seems to seem to add up to four. But I HAVE tried every approach I could possibly think of to communicate that to you assholes - with zero success.

No one learns from being belittled, ridiculed, bullied and told that they are incapable of understanding.

Then I'm totally open to other suggestions to attempt to get through to assholes incapable of understanding - even if they're not as much fun as belittling, ridiculing, and bullying.

The Linknife has proved it's value for many years.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/skysailingtowing/message/6726
Weaklinks

Peter Birren - 2008/10/27 23:41:49 UTC

---

I know about this type of accident because it happened to me, breaking four ribs and my larynx... and I was aerotowing using a dolly.

---

Peter Birren - 2008/10/27 23:41:49 UTC

Imagine if you will, just coming off the cart and center punching a thermal which takes you instantly straight up while the tug is still on the ground. Know what happens? VERY high towline forces and an over-the-top lockout. You'll have both hands on the basetube pulling it well past your knees but the glider doesn't come down and still the weaklink doesn't break (.8 G). So you pull whatever release you have but the one hand still on the basetube isn't enough to hold the nose down and you pop up and over into an unplanned semi-loop. Been there, done that... at maybe 200 feet agl.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21649
Truck Towing Accident in South Texas

Gregg Ludwig - 2010/10/28 15:46:59 UTC

Here is another report from a student (H-0) that may shed some light on the methods of instruction used. This student weighs about 250 pounds and was using a glider too small for his first tow over asphalt as reported.

28th and 29th I will be up in Kingsville, at the Kleberg County Airport about 8 am. I will be training with the Doc. He will be having lessons there Saturday, depending on weather conditions. Will be towed up with a winch - this will be my first tow. Have just been doing foot launch, will get some airtime in on those days.

-

I had to stand like a post, and not move at all once the truck took off at 25 mph with one foot in front of the other, and I am still standing in the same place leaning back, with the payout feeding me line, and there is a strange feeling, odd feeling to being pulled by the payout.

Then I take the first step to the run, and I am now running 25 mph, I am thinking, oooOOOOH SH#T, hope I don't have to run that far, hoping the HG gets lift so I don't have to run no more... My F-A running down the runway like a rocket. There is no wind, I have the right angle of attack, the HG is up, but still not enough lift for the pilot.

I can't reach my CUT line 'cause I have both hands on the downtubes, and if I let go of the Coke bottle grip I will crash.

I feel like pushing the HG into the air, or jumping up so it can lift, but I do not - that would make my situation worse.

I feel I am about to fall into the asphalt face first and crash, I am at my run limit, and feel I can not take another step. Still the glider is not lifting me.

The winch operator lets go of the pressure of the payout winch, my run comes to a jog, and to a stop. I drop to my knees.

Yeah. Totally awesome - until you're in a situation in which you actually need to use it.

It's still as safe as the pilot using it...

Yeah, kinda like frayed sidewires are as safe as the pilot using them. 'Cause if he's an actual PILOT he won't go up with them. But you keep going up with whatever the fuck you feel like and I'll back your decisions one hundred percent.

[miguel]

...I and other responsible people have, he shipped a copy to Wills Wing in hopes that they'd do his job for him. When that didn't work the lying sonuvabitch conned ME down to his lair so I'D do his job for him. It actually bench tested pretty well but it was still an overbuilt piece o' crap. I guess the thinking was that they'd sell a lot better and for a lot more than they would if he put them together the way Joe Street did just using a two and a half dollar parachute pin as the core mechanism to get something that WORKED.

Did the release pass the bench tests? Did the bench test indicate problems with the release at high tensions?

[Tad Eareckson]

Up until the point I left that dump in a thinly disguised smoldering rage there WERE NO proper bench tests.

For a proper bench test you load it up to something scary and measure the actuation pull force required to blow it.

My load tester goes up to 388 pounds on the low configuration, twice that on the high.

I loaded it up to 388, gave it a tug, and it blew with a surprisingly light pull - a lot less than I was predicting. That's totally subjective but IF it worked reliably I was willing to hold my nose and tell people that that was probably the best they were gonna do in the way of a commercially available, cable lanyard, slap-on, two point aerotow release.

BUT...

It wasn't designed or engineered - just built - and I NEVER liked it. It was more expensive and unnecessarily complex and way less efficient than the cheap panic snap based jobs we were using, just fine thank you, twenty years ago right after the ribbon was cut on the Dragonfly.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8319482072/


http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8319484072/

But - much as I hate to say this while Joe Street is producing what I think is gonna prove to be a cheap, simple, powerful, safe reliable release - cable itself is problematic and always scares me a little bit.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/skysailingtowing/message/4411
Keel Attachment

John Moody - 2004/12/16 23:07:36 UTC
Conroe, Texas

What is not normal is to see a factory-made glider that has a built in nose attachment or keel attachment or even the keel release built-in, faired and clean - like a VG system is.

So why does Mr. Reynoldson have to ask where to attach his tow line? ATOS has to know that their gliders are being towed every day. Why does each pilot have to figure it out, one at a time. Why don't the manufacturers sell a TOWING version of their gliders and avoid someone getting it wrong?

THAT'S the way to do this job right. That's what I did.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/sets/72057594141352219/

Get a REAL designer like Steve Pearson to build the goddam release into the goddam glider just like the goddam VG system and let flight park hacks like Matt get back to what THEY excel at - conning and scamming people.

But, regardless of how well the Lookout 2.0 did or didn't do on the bench on load testing, READ the OWNER'S MANUAL.

http://www.energykitesystems.net/Lift/hgh/TadEareckson/index.html

and/or

http://www.kitestrings.org/post41.html#p41

Why would ANYONE in his right mind go up on that piece of junk after reading that? (Sorry, Zack.) It tells you in black and white that IT WON'T WORK. And it DOESN'T.

I'd tow one point with a couple of Bailey (bent pin) releases on my shoulders before I'd get on a cart with that junk. Maybe I'd die anyway but at least I wouldn't hafta worry about the top end jamming and the bridle wrapping after I pried stuff loose below. (Now might be a good time to try a little one point, Zack.)

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=592
Linknife

Rob Wenban - 2011/07/19 23:23:59 UTC
Melbourne

Davis Straub - 2010/04/03 12:46:26 UTC

Tad is gone.

Thanks Davis, he has nothing constructive to add, he simply causes trouble - well done!

And of course the fact that he turned out to be right matters nary a whit. Shithead.

[Tad Eareckson]

Matt Taber - 2011/07/20

The best release in the industry.

This Aerotow Primary Release represents the state-of-the-art in releases. Made at LMFP, this release features the Rope-Loop type release mechanism, a better alternative to the lever release as you don't have to let go of the basetube to release.

We are very excited about our new barrel release mechanism. It has exceeded all of our expectations and has passed rigorous testing.

A recent testimonial from a long time aerotow pilot...

Hi Matt, Just a quick note to let you know how much I like your new Primary Aerotow release. Living in the flat lands of the mid-west, I've been towing hang gliders, using ground-based towing systems, since 1983 and, using aerotowing systems, since 1992. Over the years, I've used just about every kind of bridle and release system I saw or even heard about. Some were commercially made and some were homemade. They all worked pretty well as long as long as I was in, more or less, straight and level flight and there was no extraordinary tow force being exerted on the release. But, While rolling on the launch cart or just after leaving the cart and blundering into a thermal or otherwise getting out shape and entering into an incipient lock-out, the problems with all of my previous releases reared their ugly heads. Either I was so out of shape that I didn't want to let go of my base tube in order to activate my release or the tow pressure would quickly build up to the point where the release wouldn't operate. Since these situations occasionally do happen, until this summer, I was still searching for a better release. One which I could operate without taking my hand off of the base tube AND one which would still operate using moderate release force with the tow pressure approaching the breaking strength of my weak link. I think that, for now at least, my search is over. Not only has your new release been elegantly designed, it also works as advertised! Thanks for making this improved design available to us tow heads.

Zack C - 2011/07/10 00:53:22 UTC

So I took a trip to Lookout last weekend and my release gave me trouble (must be something in the air over there...). I took two tows on two different days and on both I had to pull the actuator loop three times before it released.

Naturally, the release worked fine on the ground.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=22540
LMFP release dysfunction

Antoine Saraf - 2011/07/14 08:33:59 UTC

LMFP RELEASE
U$139.95
http://estore.hanglide.com/Aerotow_Primary_Release_p/14-9004.htm

After several dysfunctions encountered by tandem, using a V-bridle and a 145 kg weak link on the apex, so a maximum load of 83 kg on this primary release, I sent 3 times this email to fly@hanglide.com (LMFP contact) without any answer !!! :

Hello

I recently purchased one of your Aerotow Primary Releases for use in aerotowing tandem gliders. We conduct a tandem aerotowing operation just south of Paris, France.

We have been having considerable trouble releasing when the line is under high tension. It takes considerable effort to pull the Rope-Loop release, often requiring two or three violent tugs on the loop. Obviously, this is a considerable safety concern.

One possible reason for the difficulty is the fact that there is some play in the barrel, which does not fit 100% snugly against the main block. When there is tension on the line, the release catch tilts the barrel very slightly, which may have the effect of increasing friction and causing the barrel to catch (there is very slight burring on the main release block as a result of this tendency).

I would appreciate any feedback you may have on this problem. If this is not an isolated case, and is in fact a design flaw that you have rectified in subsequent models, I would like to know the procedure for acquiring the updated model. If it is simply a problem with this particular item then I would like to have it replaced.

I look forward to your reply.

I bought with a friend two of them. He received them and never sent me this you can't consult before to have paid:

GT Manufacturing Inc. (GT) and Lookout Mountain Flight Park Inc. (LMFP) make no claim of serviceability of this tow equipment. There is no product liability insurance covering this gear and we do not warrant this gear as suitable for towing anything. We make no claim of serviceability in any way and recommend that you do not use this aerotow gear if you are not absolutely sure how to use it and or if you are unwilling to assume the risk. Towing and flying hang gliders is inherently dangerous.

If properly used, there is a minimum of three ways to release from the towline. Do not depend on any of these ways by themselves and fly with a back up. The first release is the primary release which under certain situations may fail, second, is the secondary release that works most of the time, if all is set up correctly, and third, the weak link which will break under the right load. You should also fly with a hook knife that will allow you to cut the line if need be.

GT and LMFP Inc. assume no liability for the function and serviceability of this equipment. If you are uncomfortable with the risk of using this tow gear you will need to get gear that you are comfortable with or do not tow. There is an inherent risk in towing hang gliders that you must assume if you want to use this gear and you want to tow. Learn and understand the risk and the use of this gear. Your safety depends on it.

The new GT aerotow release, new as of July 11th 2009, is designed to be used with a V bridle and a 130-pound green stripe Dacron tournament fishing line weak link. At this time it is not recommended to use this release with a higher value weak link. We are confident that with an ultimate load of 130 pounds at the release point, the new GT aerotow release works better than all cable releases that we have experience with.

Incredible ! That's for sure not the definition of a suitable and reliable release !!

The way to do of LMFP is totally unreasonable not to mention the fact that they did a version 2.0 and work on a v3.0 without making any safety advert for their customers !
From where I live, I already know 2 other US pilots who had trouble !!
Stop !

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=22540
LMFP release dysfunction

Diev Hart - 2011/07/14 17:19:12 UTC
Santa Cruz, California

I have had issues with them releasing under load. So I don't try to release it under a lot of load now.

[deltaman]

Zack C - 2011/07/10 00:53:22 UTC

And if that wasn't enough, I talked to a pilot from NW Texas that was also visiting and he had problems with the barrel on his release being so close to the edge of the pin that it was releasing prematurely on him a few feet off the ground. Last I spoke with him Matt was working on fixing it.

[Tad Eareckson]

Oops.

Thanks, good catch. Sorry, but it's really hard to keep track of all the malfunctions of "the best release in the industry" - especially when it's also the worst release in the industry. Guess it's easier to keep focused if it's already nearly killed you three or four times.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=22540
LMFP release dysfunction

deltaman - 2011/07/14 08:33:59 UTC

LMFP RELEASE
U$139.95
http://estore.hanglide.com/Aerotow_Primary_Release_p/14-9004.htm

After several dysfunctions encountered by tandem, using a V-bridle and a 145 kg weak link on the apex, so a maximum load of 83 kg on this primary release, I sent three times this email to fly@hanglide.com (LMFP contact) without any answer !!! :

Hello

I recently purchased one of your Aerotow Primary Releases for use in aerotowing tandem gliders. We conduct a tandem aerotowing operation just south of Paris, France.

We have been having considerable trouble releasing when the line is under high tension. It takes considerable effort to pull the Rope-Loop release, often requiring two or three violent tugs on the loop. Obviously, this is a considerable safety concern.

One possible reason for the difficulty is the fact that there is some play in the barrel, which does not fit 100% snugly against the main block. When there is tension on the line, the release catch tilts the barrel very slightly, which may have the effect of increasing friction and causing the barrel to catch (there is very slight burring on the main release block as a result of this tendency).

I would appreciate any feedback you may have on this problem. If this is not an isolated case, and is in fact a design flaw that you have rectified in subsequent models, I would like to know the procedure for acquiring the updated model. If it is simply a problem with this particular item then I would like to have it replaced.

I look forward to your reply.

Regards

I bought with a friend two of them. He received them and never sent me this you can't consult before to have paid:

GT Manufacturing Inc. (GT) and Lookout Mountain Flight Park Inc. (LMFP) make no claim of serviceability of this tow equipment. There is no product liability insurance covering this gear and we do not warrant this gear as suitable for towing anything. We make no claim of serviceability in any way and recommend that you do not use this aerotow gear if you are not absolutely sure how to use it and or if you are unwilling to assume the risk. Towing and flying hang gliders is inherently dangerous.

If properly used, there is a minimum of three ways to release from the towline. Do not depend on any of these ways by themselves and fly with a back up. The first release is the primary release which under certain situations may fail, second, is the secondary release that works most of the time, if all is set up correctly, and third, the weak link which will break under the right load. You should also fly with a hook knife that will allow you to cut the line if need be.

GT and LMFP Inc. assume no liability for the function and serviceability of this equipment. If you are uncomfortable with the risk of using this tow gear you will need to get gear that you are comfortable with or do not tow. There is an inherent risk in towing hang gliders that you must assume if you want to use this gear and you want to tow. Learn and understand the risk and the use of this gear. Your safety depends on it.

The new GT aerotow release, new as of July 11th 2009, is designed to be used with a V bridle and a 130-pound green stripe Dacron tournament fishing line weak link. At this time it is not recommended to use this release with a higher value weak link. We are confident that with an ultimate load of 130 pounds at the release point, the new GT aerotow release works better than all cable releases that we have experience with.

Incredible ! That's for sure not the definition of a suitable and reliable release !!

In France, this type of warning is worthless in terms of justice.
From here we have the image of a U.S. court where the issue of money is fundamental and can ruin your life.
The way to do of LMFP is totally unreasonable not to mention the fact that they did a version 2.0 and work on a v3.0 without making any safety advert for their customers !
From where I live, I already know two other US pilots who had trouble !!
Stop !

Jim Gaar - 2011/07/14 15:40:13 UTC
Roeland Park, Kansas

In a litigious society like the U.S. it's all part of the game. If you don't like it, you just take your ball and go home...

This is the reality of the sport we love. "Always the student". Learn how to use it or don't. You just missed out on what every American pilot already knows from birth.

We assume risk every day. Sometimes with a LMFP release. Hope you get your issues ironed out. The classified section is ready if you don't.

Steven Leiler - 2011/07/14 17:05:44 UTC
Central Connecticut

From here I have an image of France, that the people want the government and corporations to take care of them so they don't have to do it themselves

Diev Hart - 2011/07/14 17:19:12 UTC
Santa Cruz, California

I have had issues with them releasing under load. So I don't try to release it under a lot of load now. Solved my issue but I am not doing tandems.

LMFP (Matt Taber) - 2011/07/14 21:55:55 UTC

Hi Deltaman-

I'm sorry to hear that you've had some problems with the primary release. I've just looked through all of our emails and have not found the one that you posted here. Please know that when a pilot has an issue we want to resolve it quickly. We would never purposely ignore your complaints/comments because customer safety and satisfaction is very important to us. If there is a problem with your release, we are happy to replace it for you. Please contact us directly at fly@hanglide.com for shipping information, specifics, and with any additional questions.

2011/07/14 22:18:59 UTC - 3 thumbs up - Jim Gaar

Jim Gaar - 2011/07/14 15:40:13 UTC

In a litigious society like the U.S. it's all part of the game.

The game being, of course, to:

- use your economic and political clout to strip consumer protection regulations down to the point of virtual meaninglessness;

- gut any and all enforcement mechanisms;

- violate the crap out of anything left on the books 'cause you know there will NEVER be anything in the way of accountability;

- slap together whatever stupid dangerous piece o' crap idea you have for a critical aviation control mechanism that first pops into your evil warped little head;

- mass produce it prior to any but the slightest pretense of bench or field testing;

- declare it to be the best in the deadly, incompetent, corrupt "industry" you've created;

- craft advertising to mislead the unwary public into believing that your little piece o' crap is actually functional;

- use a team of lawyers to produce documentation warning the user that what he just purchased is actually the polar opposite of what - based upon the aforementioned grotesquely misleading advertising - he foolishly BELIEVED he was purchasing and absolve yourself of all responsibility, accountability, liability;

- write owner's manual sections to further mislead the purchaser into believing that if he uses this piece o' crap in conjunction with a lethally understrength weak link and more shitrigged backup junk and a hook knife (which can be his for a small additional fee), he will stand a reasonably good chance of surviving an emergency situation - so nuthin' to really worry about, dude.

If you don't like it, you just take your ball and go home...

And if you and the kid you were trying to take up for the spin he was getting for his twelfth birthday end up in a crumpled, bloody, lifeless heap ten seconds after launch, well that's just TOUGH MERDE (ya cheese-eating surrender monkey). Ya read the disclaim- I mean, OWNER'S MANUAL, didn't ya? What did you expect?

This is the reality of the sport we love.

- This IS the reality - but only because the sport has got a lethal infestation of stupid scum such as yourself.

- You oughta be real fucking careful about using the word "we" - even if it is accurate at least three quarters of the time in that context. But do not EVER use it if there's the slightest chance it's gonna include anyone for whom I have a shred of respect.

- I totally DESPISE the "sport" - read cult - you assholes have created.

"Always the student".

Yeah, right. You haven't been a student since those five miserable years you spent trying to make it through the second grade - which, in Kansas, I wouldn't have thunk would've been all the tough.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23813
Threaded bridle system

Jim Gaar - 2011/05/26 15:44:33 UTC

I'm a Rooney follower.

Goddam mindless zombie is the best to which you're ever gonna be able to aspire.

Learn how to use it or don't.

Jerry Forburger - 1990/10

Should you decide to stay on tow, continue to fly the glider and maintain the proper control movements, you will be rewarded with a tow that will pull you to a safer altitude.

...in response to the Eric Aasletten whipstall fatality precipitated by his failure to LEARN how to keep a Steve Wendt style truck tow release from autofiring when the glider pitched up in response to a dust devil. Assholes of a feather.

You just missed out on what every American pilot already knows from birth.

Yep, Antoine, that's right about where the learning curve flattens off abruptly for just about all the people who fly these things over here. But I'm probably not telling you anything that hasn't been blindingly obvious for a long time.

We assume risk every day.

But that just doesn't get our rocks off sufficiently, does it Jim?

Sometimes with a LMFP release.

YEAH! That oughta do it! There's nothing like adding a Lockout Release to the Bailey backup...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3107
I have a tandem rating!!!

Lauren Tjaden - 2008/03/23 22:20:15 UTC

The barrel release wouldn't work because we had too much pressure on it.

...130 pound Greenspot...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=13689
eating dirt

Jim Gaar - 2009/09/18 19:23:44 UTC

Hell I've literally shoved the control frame out in front of me to avoid a whack when it got a little ahead of me in a light DW landing, similar to when I've had to slide it in on my belly (did that once after a weaklink brake coming off a launch cart.

...fuckin' moronic tug driver...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
weak links

Jim Rooney - 2007/08/01 13:47:23 UTC

Whatever's going on back there, I can fix it by giving you the rope.

...brew of stupid shit that can needlessly kill you before you clear a hundred feet to make you REALLY FEEL ALIVE if you survive it! This is why we fly these things, isn't it? Maximize stupid risks to maximize the adrenalin rushes.

Hope you get your issues ironed out.

Why the fuck should he hafta get "issues" ironed out? He PAID for something he was misled to believe would work to do the job it was supposed to.

The classified section is ready if you don't.

No folks, incredibly, he's NOT joking. He thinks it's perfectly OK for Matt to keep pumping out and shipping this crap - KNOWING that it routinely malfunctions in manners in which it WILL kill you in an emergency situation - and he's equally perfectly OK people dumping slightly used but otherwise identical deadly crap on the hang gliding public.

If somebody did or even recommended to somebody to do this with a comparably dangerous uncertifiable glider there WOULD be calls for his rating revocation. But because it's shitrigged towing equipment and shitrigged towing equipment is accepted as SOP this kind of crime against humanity is perfectly OK.

Steven Leiler - 2011/07/14 17:05:44 UTC

From here I have an image of France, that the people want the government and corporations to take care of them so they don't have to do it themselves

The only reason useless little shits like you survive longer than the two or three weeks you used to back in the mid Seventies is because because some decent, responsible engineers got together, formed the HGMA, and cleared the skies of full luff divers a lot faster and cheaper than was happening at the previous rate of two or three fatalities a weekend. Rot in hell, asshole.

Diev Hart - 2011/07/14 17:19:12 UTC

I have had issues with them releasing under load. So I don't try to release it under a lot of load now. Solved my issue but I am not doing tandems.

Diev, compared to the other three assholes in that thread, you're a prince of a guy. So stay out of hang gliding and do something harmless within your scope of ability.

Matt Taber - 2011/07/14 21:55:55 UTC

I'm sorry to hear that you've had some problems with the primary release.

Sorry to hear that he's had some problems with the primary release?
Or sorry that everyone else has finally now started hearing what a dangerous piece o' crap this primary "release" is?

I've just looked through all of our emails and have not found the one that you posted here.

Liar.

Please know that when a pilot has an issue we want to resolve it quickly.

BULLSHIT.
- You KNEW:
-- this was a dangerous piece o' crap when you wrote the sucker's manual - 2009/07/11
-- it was an incredibly dangerous piece o' crap when you started pumping out Version 2.1
- TO THIS DAY there is NOTHING on your stinking website or anywhere else in the way of a recall notice or even an advisory.
- You haven't even made the slightest effort to contact individual purchasers.

We would never purposely ignore your complaints/comments because customer safety and satisfaction is very important to us.

Bullshit. You'd very purposely ignore the complaints/comments and issues of customer safety and satisfaction till hell filled up and froze over if you thought it would save you the price of a chocolate bar.

If there is a problem with your release...

IF???

...we are happy to replace it for you.

WITH WHAT? Dangerous Piece O' Crap 2.1? Any revisions in the sucker's manual?

Please contact us directly at fly@hanglide.com for shipping information, specifics, and with any additional questions.

And make sure you keep everybody updated on The Davis and Jack Shows so we know what's going on.

2011/07/14 22:18:59 UTC - 3 thumbs up - Jim Gaar

[Sorry Jim, I have absolutely no idea why you're giving Matt THREE THUMBS UP!!!

- For fixing "problems" you didn't originally consider to be "problems" of any magnitude whatsoever?

- Or for pulling off the sleaze so seamlessly that he was able to appear to all of your fellow Jack Show / Rooney Follower zombies to be much less of a motherfucker than he actually is?

I'm guessing Two.

So miguel...

What's your take? What did I get wrong?

[Zack C]

I swear folks - I DID NOT register under another screen name and post those.

Zack, PLEASE verify this and back me up.

He speaks the truth.

I'll add to my original post regarding my release issues here since this topic is more specific.

I got a call from an employee at Lookout earlier this week asking how my new release was working (fine, so far). She said the one I exchanged was being examined. I sent them the video of my difficulties.

Today I received this message:

The release you returned to us has been fixed. We are retesting every release at full weak link value and recording the amount of pressure it takes to release. Your old release currently releases at 12 pounds of pressure.

The call was unexpected and I appreciate their customer service and efforts to make things right. But while this email was probably sent to reassure me and save face, it didn't quite have that effect...
1. 'Full weak link value'? As though there's only one acceptable value? Oh wait, there is...the manual specifies that only 130 lb weak links should be used with this release.
2. Even so, USHPAs aerotow SOPs require a release that works to twice the weak link's breaking point...it's only being tested to half that.
3. But the SOPs also allow up to 2 G weak links. So for me, that means the release should be tested to 600 lbs. I admit that's excessive, but they're not testing the releases to anywhere near the level necessary to comply with the SOPs.
4. I'm not sure what 'retesting every release at full weak link value' means. Are we talking about new releases waiting to be sold? That implies they were tested previously but inadequately. These releases have been on the market for years, and they weren't even being tested to 130 lbs? Or does 'every release' mean all the releases they're getting back because these problems are so widespread? If that's the case, why wasn't a recall or at least advisory issued?
5. And what exactly was wrong with the release in the first place?
6. The 'pressure' it takes to release?

Zack