Airspeed is What You Need - DON'T LET YOUR GUARD DOWN!
What? From when they flush the toilets?Frederick Wagner - 2017/07/28 05:15:53 UTC
Altadena, CA
From Steve Murillo (who has flow from aircraft carriers):
Fascinating. Why not back up a bit further and tell us how you stuffed the battens and tensioned the wing - in the standard fashion?Arthur Simineau and I decided to go to Crestline this past Saturday. Winds on launch were light and variable, I'd guess 2-8 mph, blowing mostly straight in with the occasional minor cross from the NW.
I'm flying a Sport 2 155. As I approached launch with Art on my nose, hang check and hook in check were standard.
This is fuckin' WEIRD. Absolutely NOTHING to do with ANYTHING. Makes a point of announcing that he's doing the standard Grebloville flagrant violation of the hook-in check SOP. Must be getting some kind of kickback from Joe and/or u$hPa.
By doing what? Not continuing to hold on a sidewire? Or did you have him on the nose to make sure you didn't get blown over in an 8 mph surge? Or was he one these very capable helpers who positions himself on the tail (of the glider)?Standing on launch with wings balanced, wind at almost zero, I could see what I thought was a nice breeze coming up the hill. I called for "clear" and Arthur obliged.
Neat trick. Are you absolutely positive you were hooked in?I began my launch as I normally do, which was not enough. About half way down the ramp I did not feel the glider picking up off my shoulders as has been the case in almost every launch I've ever had.
By this time I was committed. I pulled in slightly on the nose...
Why were you clearing barley during a launch run?...and accelerated through the remainder of the ramp, using it all, barley clearing...
Truly amazing....but getting airborne.
...cutting a neat, sharply defined, four foot wide path through the barley.Art later reported that he observed the control bar falling...
As would have been the case if you'd started your launch on a truck platform or on a launch cart behind a 115 horsepower turbocharged tug with one of those Tad-O-Links many of us suddenly became happy with right after the Zack Marzec inconvenience fatality....not rising, and thought to himself "this is going to hurt".
The fact that my adrenaline kicked in at the last second gave me enough umph to get into the air. But here's the lesson learned: When in doubt, especially at a strange launch, KEEP THE NOSE DOWN AND CHARGE THE HILL!
Had I started the first half of my run as aggressively as the second half, I would not be writing this.
What's a "step"?We Kagel pilots are so used to the fairly strong winds and steep launch at Kagel, we are used to getting airborne in just a few steps.
And the barley clearing so much less effective.But Crestline launch is less steep, and the winds that day were very light. The perfect one-two combination to put an unwary pilot on the ropes!
Lesson learned, and I hope someone else will benefit from this.
Sincerely,
Steve R. Murillo
Which one has the barley?Fred Ballard - 2017/08/04 04:16:47 UTC
Was this the actual Crestline launch or was it at Marshall?
Must've been using a Tad-O-Link. A proper weak link will break before you can get into too much trouble.NMERider - 2017/08/04 20:48:30 UTC
This sounds to me exactly like Crestline launch. Marshall has two, much better ramps. Yesterday, we had a pilot get turned by a thermal on the Crestline ramp.
Pretty cool the way you get to use the entire runway length on launch. On landing your not allowed to think about touching down until you get to the old Frisbee at the centerpoint.He did not have the speed or altitude to recover and it cost him a leading edge and other repairs. No injury however. The pilot before him had to run like heck all the way to the bottom of the ramp.
Like Steve Murillo? Does he count?The first of the three pilots got airborne in just a few steps in very light winds and immediately climbed. This was all due to thermal activity from the convective development overhead. There are some rules of thumb to safely launching from Crestline in nil to light winds. When visiting an unfamiliar site it is always a good idea to ask the locals about any ramp issues.
Like "Never had any problem before."The answers may surprise you.
Or hell, just wait for the videos.It's also a good idea to watch one or more local pilots launch in such marginal conditions.
There's always gonna be weather of some description.In the original post there is not mention of the number and location of streamers along the length of the ramp. It does vary from time to time and in strange conditions it's a very good practice to install your own extra streamers in order to verify weather...
Whether or not it's flyable....or not...
I really like this comment at 1:47:...the ramp is filled in with wind from top to bottom.
Another peculiarity of the Crestline ramp is that wind does not equal lift and no-wind does not equal no safe launching. You can have sink on the ramp even though the wind is filled in and you can have easy launching conditions even those the streamers are nearly limp. You can also have wind and lift on the top of the ramp and run or waddle right through it and out the other side, only to drop to your knees and skid down the ramp.
There are many other issues with that ramp that I will save for any pilot who approaches me in the Crestline setup area or on the ramp.
Here is an example of launching the ramp safely in dead calm conditions:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBvrIzieSVk
Very few of us are, Jonathan. (Nail on the fuckin' head.)NMERider - 2016/11/22
I'm not Jesse Owens.
Steve Murillo - 2017/08/10 18:30:51 UTC
Manhattan Beach
Jonathan, you are correct. This was Crestline launch, not Marshall. I've launched Crestline many times before, but never had an issue. This one caught me a bit off guard, but my instinct for survival kicked in and I was able to accelerate the last part of the run.
To my fellow pilots - guard up!
Tell me about the glider launches that aren't powered. They're driven or carried of to high points where they're powered into flight by gravity, leg muscle, wind, thermal flow, some combination of the above. Or they're pulled up off the runway by something with a powerful engine.Mike Moacanin - 2017/09/10 01:42:09 UTC
Somis
Yes ... airspeed is pretty much key to any takeoff -- applies to powered pilots as well.
Nice smoking gun thread illustrating what a load of crap the definition of a hang glider as a foot launchable aircraft is.Matthew Hendershot - 2017/09/14 23:54:51 UTC
Here's one of my launches from a couple years ago at Crestline.
Thermal coming through picked up my right wing with unexpected force!
I feel I had a decently strong launch, and somewhat panicky overreaction, but managed to correct.
Also--note the streamer at the bottom of the ramp. It's pointed uphill as I begin my run, but at the end--it's pretty wonky...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frkvwQEApnM
Foot launching these things minus the benefit of a cliff, really steep slope or ramp, strong steady wind, thermal blast, some combination of some of he aforementioned is a marginal, iffy, dangerous proposition that's gonna get real world fallible humans injured and killed at near unsustainable rates.
Wanna do it safely - eliminate the foot/running bullshit, hook it up to something with a powerful engine, roll it up to near twice the airspeed a runner would be able to generate in no wind. (And note that doubling airspeed necessitates quadrupling power.)
