bridles

General discussion about the sport of hang gliding
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: bridles

Post by Tad Eareckson »

Still, I believe there should be more people like Colin Rushton in the HG pilot's pool, at least in the US.
Sure, the glider stuff is statistically microscopic - at best. But it's a pretty good model for just about anything else. And for most of my life I thought that someone who got it right on the feathered birds would automatically be a great candidate for the Dacron and aluminum jobs. But Steve Seibel / Aeroexperiments crashed that hypothesis/delusion pretty hard.
Four more years with Il Duce at the rudder...
What happens on our side of the dam tends to have massive implications for the rest of the planet. And I'm having a real hard time believing we'll be able to survive four more months of this horror show.

Back a bit more on topic...

http://www.safa.asn.au/news/blog/72-dalby-big-air-hang-gliding-competition
Dalby Big Air Hang Gliding Competition - The New Site For HGFA | SAFA
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: bridles

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=36817
Aerotowing V-Bridle length
dencor - 2020/08/10 18:02:02 UTC
Chillicothe, Ohio

Is there a measurement/formula/angle criteria for determining the length of the bridle line that runs from the keel, thru the tow ring , and back to the shoulder releases?
If you want the best information possible on this stuff a local coffee shop is the wrong place.
If you wanna come over here and get properly squared away...
http://www.kitestrings.org/post5.html#p5
Contact me and I'll get you in.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: bridles

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=36817
Aerotowing V-Bridle length
Dan Lukaszewicz - 2020/08/10 19:55:41 UTC

I make my own from vectran or amsteel. The line going to the keel release needs to be long enough so the connection to the tow plane occurs a few feet in front of the pilot's shoulder connection. I make mine about 5' long for towing my U2c.
And just do what everybody else does on your secondary bridle and don't worry too much about the bent/straight pin issue. A small sample (like the few flights per season you'll be doing) is very unlikely to uncover any statistical differences between those choices. It may take thousands of flights for a difference to show up (if there is one), so you'll be fine just going with any procedures anyone feels like calling standard.
I would say to err on the side of too long rather than too short.
Why? Care to talk about what happens to the loading transmitted to the important stuff varying with apex angle? (Remember how critical it was that we all fly with precision 130 pound test fishing line for all those decades without the slightest consideration of any manner of loading variation?)
dencor - 2020/08/10 20:29:02 UTC

Have mercy, mine is 12 foot long for my sport 2 and falcon, always hated having all that line dangling behind me, figured it would one day hang up in my harness zipper.
Why does your harness zipper need to be open on launch?
Balling it up and shoving it in my harness is a "chore", guess its time for some experimenting. Thanx!!
Nothing like experimentation in the total absence of any thought processes.

Keep enjoying your local coffee shop crowd, Dennis.

P.S. Ever wonder why you've never been able to go to any websites of any major AT operations and find any information that makes any sense on issues like this? Or how 'bout your Local Coffee Shop owner's "Wiki" section?
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: bridles

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=22233
Looking for pro-tow release
Casey Cox - 2011/06/15 11:32:49 UTC

Pro-tow is not as safe a tow bridle as a 2 point with aero release. It's just smaller, less drag, shorter bridle that takes a little less time to stow, and looks cooler.
Davis Straub - 2011/06/15 12:50:03 UTC

Do you have any references that back up your opinion here?

I would suggest that this statement is in fact false.
Zack C - 2011/06/16 03:14:35 UTC

I've never aerotowed pilot-only, but it is my understanding that this configuration pulls the pilot forward significantly, limiting the amount he can pull in further.
Davis Straub - 2011/06/16 05:11:44 UTC

Incorrect understanding.
http://www.ozreport.com/9.133
Lesson from an aerotow accident report
Davis Straub - 2005/06/23 02:00 UTC

First, the pilot couldn't find the portion of her V-bridle that attached to her keel and decided to tow off her shoulders, something that she had no experience with.
...
Fifth, with her arms straight back she had much less control over the glider.
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<BS>
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Re: bridles

Post by <BS> »

Concussions are in fact very serious and have life long effects. The last time I was knocked out what in 9th grade football. I have felt the effects of that ever since. It changes your wiring.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: bridles

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
Ridgerodent - 2011/09/03 07:44:10 UTC

Indeed.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: bridles

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=26429
Pro Tow vs Three Point
Davis Straub - 2012/06/26 00:06:02 UTC

Why is pro-tow sometimes thought of as single point towing, when it is clear to me that there are two points? Does this mean that towing from your keel or carabiner and your shoulders is a two point tow?
There seems to actually be only one point that you are towed from, the end of the tow line, then the tow forces are split up to two or three places.
If you towed from a single point on your harness (in the center, presumably), would that be a one point tow or half a point tow?
Is this just an example of our failure to communicate?
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http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=22233
Looking for pro-tow release
Davis Straub - 2011/06/16 14:29:59 UTC

There is significantly less bar pressure with the 2 point method (if you put the keel connection in the correct location).
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: bridles

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=34390
Tragedy at 2016 Quest Air Open
Davis Straub - 2016/05/26 23:09:54 UTC

Lookout makes and sells a release that is on the base bar. Unfortunately, it is only for two/three point bridle setup.
Hey Davis...

Let's say John Heiney:

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wants to distribute the load from the tow tension better than he has it now. So he runs two additional lines from the back end of his three-string to his port and starboard shoulder tow loops.

Then he thinks that some day some totally unimaginable circumstances might converge to make it advantageous to have more than an inch and a half's worth of...

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-2lk6hbjuJ-c/Ujh-ENPLQrI/AAAAAAAA3IQ/vh46chqQX4M/s1600/JRS_0542.JPG
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...pitch control range available for getting up through the kill zone and decides he wants a connection up on his keel.

Would that be a four point tow?

Or hell, look at the way you have two strands coming off the back end of the three-string to connect to the harness's center tow loop. It's obviously gonna be the same deal at the shoulders and similar at the keel so we should probably call it eight point for the sake of precision. Octopull?
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: bridles

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=63574
VG Undone
Davis Straub - 2020/09/22 04:23:59 UTC

Can't get down behind the trike

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fb2NdOTavLk
2020 09 19 Balado v2
Oliver Moffatt - 2020/09/21

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fb2NdOTavLk
Oliver Moffatt - 2020/09/22 04:23:59 UTC

I had a useful lesson on Saturday. Coming off the trolley, I immediately climbed above the tug, and continued to climb until the weak link broke when I was about to release.

No amount of bring in the bar-to-the-knees while on tow made any difference, and I had no idea what was wrong.

Flying back to land I found that the VG was fully slack. Viewing the video later it showed that the rope had bounced out of the cleat less than five seconds after I started rolling.

I had previously understood that aerotowing with a slack VG would simply make it very hard to pull in to increase my speed. In fact, pulling in wasn't difficult. The problem was that even at full speed I was still climbing much faster than the tug.

Lesson learned, and I spent an hour on Sunday reaming out the hole in my wheel hub as the small hole was not well aligned with the VG jamming cleat, so that the cleat did not have a firm grip on the VG rope.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: bridles

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=63574
VG Undone
Oliver Moffatt - 2020/09/22 04:23:59 UTC

I had a useful lesson on Saturday. Coming off the trolley, I immediately climbed above the tug, and continued to climb until the weak link broke when I was about to release.

No amount of bring in the bar-to-the-knees while on tow made any difference, and I had no idea what was wrong.

Flying back to land I found that the VG was fully slack. Viewing the video later it showed that the rope had bounced out of the cleat less than five seconds after I started rolling.

I had previously understood that aerotowing with a slack VG would simply make it very hard to pull in to increase my speed. In fact, pulling in wasn't difficult. The problem was that even at full speed I was still climbing much faster than the tug.

Lesson learned, and I spent an hour on Sunday reaming out the hole in my wheel hub as the small hole was not well aligned with the VG jamming cleat, so that the cleat did not have a firm grip on the VG rope.
I had a useful lesson on Saturday.
As opposed to the pure unadulterated total crap you had for lessons with the UK branch of the Flight Park Mafia.
Coming off the trolley, I immediately climbed above the tug...
Coming off the trolley...

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..., you IMMEDIATELY had to...

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...near fully stuff the bar...

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...just to stay down a bit above the tug well before it had developed enough speed to get safely airborne.
...and continued to climb...
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...until the weak link broke when I was about to release.
Wow! That's a really good weak link you BHPA guys are using over there!

http://www.wallaby.com/aerotow_primer.php
Aerotow Primer for Experienced Pilots
The Wallaby Ranch Aerotowing Primer for Experienced Pilots - 2020/09/24

A weak link connects the V-pull to the release, providing a safe limit on the tow force. If you fail to maintain the correct tow position (centered, with the wheels of the tug on the horizon), the weak link will break before you can get into too much trouble.
You failed to maintain the correct tow position (centered, with the wheels of the tug on the horizon) and the weak link broke before you'd gotten into too much trouble. You and your weak link were within 1.5 seconds of being on exactly the same page. And this way you didn't even have to go to the minimal trouble of making the easy reach to your Koch release.
No amount of bring in the bar-to-the-knees while on tow made any difference...
It's not making any difference here:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-2lk6hbjuJ-c/Ujh-ENPLQrI/AAAAAAAA3IQ/vh46chqQX4M/s1600/JRS_0542.JPG
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Steve has the bar fully stuffed immediately coming off the cart and before the Dragonfly's gotten airborne and he's not coming down. If the tug speeds up more than a bit or if he gets lift the tug doesn't the only directions he'll be able to go are up and/or sideways... What were you expecting?
...and I had no idea what was wrong.
I'm thinking is a control linkage issue. Bring the glider in to your dealer and have him check it out. Might hafta leave it overnight so best to wait until you have a couple days of crappy nonflying weather.
Flying back to land I found that the VG was fully slack.
OH! That'll do it every time. 'Specially in situations in which your upper bridle connection has come loose too.
Viewing the video later it showed that the rope had bounced out of the cleat less than five seconds after I started rolling.
Yep. Mystery solved.
I had previously understood that aerotowing with a slack VG would simply make it very hard to pull in to increase my speed.
What did these stupid pigfuckers tell you about using a two point bridle to make it "easier" (POSSIBLE) to increase your speed?
In fact, pulling in wasn't difficult. The problem was that even at full speed I was still climbing much faster than the tug.
Maybe growing longer arms would help a bit.
Lesson learned...
Fuck yeah...

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...and I spent an hour on Sunday reaming out the hole in my wheel hub as the small hole was not well aligned with the VG jamming cleat, so that the cleat did not have a firm grip on the VG rope.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec
Jim Rooney - 2013/02/16 05:05:41 UTC

My general rule is "no funky shit". I don't like people reinventing the wheel and I don't like test pilots. Have I towed a few test pilots? Yup. Have I towed them in anything but very controlled conditions? Nope. It's a damn high bar. I've told more to piss off than I've told yes. I'll give you an example... I towed a guy with the early version of the new Lookout release. But the Tad-o-link? Nope.
The weak link's still intact as this clip fades out. There's no jolt.

As I'm posting this there have been ten responses from seven individuals (including Oliver - appearing as "Scandalxk") in two Davis Show topics and not a single hint of a mention of a two point bridle.

Well, maybe there have been... This is the sorta stuff that Davis will delete inside of a New York minute.
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