You are NEVER hooked in.

[Steve Davy]

If, for some reason, I couldn't launch with a tight hang strap or lift and tug, I would reach back and yank and tug on the on the hang strap. Not sure if I could generate enough pull to feel anything on the leg loops though.

Glad I'm tall. Lifting the glider to feel the leg loops is easy for me. Re-learning to launch with a tight hang strap (wind or no wind) only became easy after some practice. Launching with the down tubes resting on my shoulders, letting the glider float up, gives me chills, I don't even like thinking about launching like that.

[Steve Davy]

Hey Greg, ya gonna tell him not to put a foot on the middle of a speedbar so he doesn't torque it and distort the pin holes?

I do this and I'm seeing some distortion on the pin holes on my Falcon. I try to keep the stress on the base tube to a minimum by pulling forward on the down tubes or front wires. Stepping on the base tube is an effective way to plant the glider in wind. I know of one pilot that uses a straight base tube, if I wasn't so stupid and lazy I would get straight base tubes for my Falcon and Sport 2.

[Tad Eareckson]

If, for some reason, I couldn't launch with a tight hang strap or lift and tug...

A few thoughts...

Rob Kells - 2005/12

Each of us agrees that it is not a particular method, but rather the fear of launching unhooked that makes us diligent to be sure we are hooked in every time before starting the launch run.

If you've got the fear - and anybody with any brains in this sport (maybe two or three percent) does - you've probably got three quarters of the game.

If I couldn't launch or lift tight...

- I stitch some velcro to the leg loops so that - before I get on the ramp (as part of my assembly / preflight routine) I can take enough slack out of them to make them somewhat uncomfortably tight.

- I tie a foot and a half or so of 3/64 inch leechline to the carabiner. After I clip in I put the other end in my teeth.

- If I don't have that string in my teeth and don't feel those leg loops squeezing I don't launch.

- When I launch I allow the leechline to pull free and my weight will automatically blow the velcro.

Hey Zack, I kinda like this idea. How do you feel about being a guinea pig? Seriously, I think that's what I'd do if I couldn't engineer things for lift and tug.

Re-learning to launch with a tight hang strap...

I was lucky - I had the fear the instant I heard about the phenomenon, I got tuned into the tight suspension trick almost from the start, and I never had the least problem tensioning the suspension on any glider I ever flew (a little shy of 6'1" - if that's relevant).

Launching with the down tubes resting on my shoulders, letting the glider float up, gives me chills, I don't even like thinking about launching like that.

You should spend some time with Bob. I can't think of anyone better qualified to get you comfortable with that procedure. And maybe take a refresher course at Lookout. All their graduates run off like that all the time from the Lookout, Henson Gap, and Whitwell ramps - without the slightest trace of apprehension.

That crap from Joe's clinic was insane.

- At places where I did a lot of my slope launches once you start forward momentum you're not gonna arrest it before becoming fodder for the eleven o'clock news if you're not connected to something airworthy.

- And even at an abort friendly slope or tow launch, wind and or tension will take the glider up fast and the anecdotal evidence strongly indicates that your instinct will be to hold on...

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/skysailingtowing/message/6406
Hook in failure

Luis Filipe Barradas - 2007/12/16 03:12:38 UTC

I experienced the same accident (Bille Floyd), but came out only with a broken wrist.

Double release, (bridle under/over bar) and hydraulic winch, foot launch, hands immediately on the bar, and going up fast at about a 45 degree angle. The first reaction is to tighten the grip, not to release. By the time you blink you're at 25 feet.

...for the one or two seconds it'll take to make it way too late to let go.

[Tad Eareckson]

I do this and I'm seeing some distortion on the pin holes on my Falcon.

It's an extremely tempting target but I was always able to get by on my HPAT by stepping on an end.

If I were gonna use a glider for a lot of Jockey's Ridge (dune) flying I'd have a straight basetube for those excursions.

Now that I think about it...

I wonder why Windsports is using a speedbar on a beach trainer (Condor?) - especially after watching one of their Hang Twos fly and never even THINK ABOUT getting his hands anywhere NEAR the basetube.

[Zack C]

Hey Zack, I kinda like this idea. How do you feel about being a guinea pig? Seriously, I think that's what I'd do if I couldn't engineer things for lift and tug.

But then I would have all that string flapping in the wind!!

I do like the idea, really. Now that Packsaddle's closed, however, I don't get many foot launch opportunities. Also, I'm thinking about getting a cocoon, and I'm thinking I'll foot launch with it with a string attached to the boot in my teeth...that might mess with the carabiner string idea.

I'll give the string a try next opportunity...the velcro will take some time though.

Zack

[Tad Eareckson]

But then I would have all that string flapping in the wind!!

- That was the quick and dirty plan. I've been thinking about rigging it so you keep it in your teeth while it breaks away from the carabiner. After that it gets stowed.

- I figured it wouldn't bother you too much - seeing as how I haven't been able to talk you into removing your stupid backup suspension anyway.

Also, I'm thinking about getting a cocoon...

(Speaking of extra crap in the airflow.)

Why? I really like pods. Easy to foot launch, clean, warm, great storage.

...and I'm thinking I'll foot launch with it with a string attached to the boot in my teeth...

Don't. I flew a cocoon from 1982 for over a decade. Grab one of the boot/lower suspension lines and hold it with the downtube at launch. That bunches up the boot and pulls it to the side. After you get airborne and let go to transfer to the basetube the line falls free and the boot drops into position. Never had a problem.

P.S. Talk to me before you get a pod. I've still got my Robertson and if it fits and you want it it's yours.

[Zack C]

But then I would have all that string flapping in the wind!!

In case it wasn't obvious, that was a rib at your preoccupation with reducing drag. It's not much of a concern for me.

Why? I really like pods.

Yeah, most people do, but there are a few that prefer cocoons (and that's not counting the aerobatic guys). My main issue with pods is I don't like zipping. There's never a good time for it. When you get off tow in lift your focus is on coring the thermal. You top out or lose the lift and your focus is on getting to the next thermal. You get low and you don't want to zip because you might have to land soon. You get high and you've got a chance, but that doesn't always happen. Look at Quintana, or Packsaddle (only 400') when it's just ridge lift. We don't get high in the winter here regardless. Two weeks ago I flew for 75 minutes in light lift, never getting above 2000'. I was unzipped the whole time as I was either working lift or thinking I was about to land...it got uncomfortable towards the end.

Zipping is too much an ordeal...I often have trouble getting the zipper started, I have to take a hand off the bar to do it and if I hit turbulence and need to put both hands back on the bar I might drop the zip cord, I can only get it zipped to my knees with the cord anyway and then I have to reach down and pull it the rest of way, and I still can't get it over my crotch. Maybe the harness is in part to blame, but I see videos of people messing with their zippers all the time when they should be flying the glider.

With a cocoon, you're as comfortable as you're going to get from the beginning of the flight...no zipper to mess with.

I really like pods. Easy to foot launch...

Easier than a cocoon I'm sure, although I've hit the boot of my pod with my heels on a launch run before. But, like I said, I don't do much foot launching anyway. I think a cocoon would be great for towing.

...clean...

Not when they're unzipped.

...warm...

I wonder if a cocoon wouldn't be warmer than an unzipped pod. And I do live in southern Texas...I know a guy that bought a cocoon solely to be cooler in the summer.

...great storage.

You can have storage along the length of a cocoon, plus additional pockets on the front...plenty of room for anything I'd want to carry. Since I don't fly XC and generally land where I launched I don't usually fly with bags anyway.

The hassle of getting in and out of the things is actually the biggest deterrent for me.

I've still got my Robertson and if it fits and you want it it's yours.

Really appreciate the offer but I'm planning to buy new (if I do)...I want something custom-fitted.

Zack

[Steve Davy]

Betty at High Energy is notorious for attaching the mains on the pilot's CG. This makes staying prone difficult. I have been told that if you ask her to attach the mains 1.5" back she won't do it. Some folks around here just find the CG, add 1.5" to 1.75", and send in the measurements.

[Tad Eareckson]

In case it wasn't obvious...

Nah, it was obvious - but I DO have a preoccupation with reducing drag. I hate putting stuff in the airflow for hours that only serves functions of minutes or seconds.

It's not much of a concern for me.

Yeah, I keep trying to fix that.

...(and that's not counting the aerobatic guys).

From what I've heard from the aerobatic guys the gliders nowadays are so fast and clean (thanks to anal people like yours truly who can't stand batten tensioning strings in the airflow) that it's a waste of altitude to ball up. Balling up is, however, still useful in preventing a tuck and tumble following a severe stall.

My main issue with pods is I don't like zipping.

Nobody does.

There's never a good time for it.

Yeah there is.

When you get off tow...

So do it before you start on tow right after you prone out on the dolly at launch position - like I do.

- The only people who have to worry about landing right after they come off the cart are 130 pound Greenspot morons.

- And it's not like you'll need to be upright to deal with a narrow dry riverbed with large rocks strewn all over the place or a field filled with seven foot high corn anyway.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vb4nUTAJXTk
Aerotow Incident
Sparkozoid - 2009/12/01
dead

- Convince me that going upright to the downtubes made that landing any safer than the 130 pound Greenspot made the launch.

Look at Quintana...

OK.

...or Packsaddle (only 400')...

Only four hundred now inaccessible anyway feet.

...when it's just ridge lift.

In just ridge lift you can just about always fly at trim. And if you're flying at trim you can afford to use a hand - or even two - for housekeeping chores for a few seconds.

We don't get high in the winter here regardless.

We're back to towing here, I assume.

Two weeks ago I flew for 75 minutes in light lift, never getting above 2000'. I was unzipped the whole time as I was either working lift or thinking I was about to land...it got uncomfortable towards the end.

See above.

Zipping is too much an ordeal...I often have trouble getting the zipper started, I have to take a hand off the bar to do it and if I hit turbulence and need to put both hands back on the bar I might drop the zip cord, I can only get it zipped to my knees with the cord anyway and then I have to reach down and pull it the rest of way, and I still can't get it over my crotch. Maybe the harness is in part to blame, but I see videos of people messing with their zippers all the time when they should be flying the glider.

- I reengineered my High Energy Racer pod.

- Lose the existing:
-- closing/opening lanyard system
- zipper slider and replace it with a double pull (front and back pull tabs)

- Snip off the tabs and stitch a loop of eighth inch leechline in through the tab mountings (such that when you pull on the loop you equalize the tension on the top and bottom (inside and outside) sides of the slider.

- Stitch the zipper directly to the pod to disable the stuck zipper emergency velcro.

- I couldn't get the velcro to work when I wanted it to when the ground was getting close.
-- The velcro would work just great when I was having trouble zipping up when the ground was getting farther away.
-- Landing prone in a zipped up pod is statistically twenty times safer than landing upright (initially) on your feet.

- Stitch a little stainless steel ring to the inside of the pod just to the (call it) right side of the zipper at the limit of your reach.

- Measure from the ring to the fore end of the zipper.

- Go aft that measurement and stitch the zipper to disable it from that point aft. Makes the:
-- boot a little harder to kick into for foot launch but no BFD
-- zipper a whole lot easier to start

- Run a length of 205 leechline from the slider loop, through the ring, and to a little red plastic three quarter inch RWO R1903 halyard ball.

So...

- After launch you grab the halyard ball and pull it forward as far as possible - which will be when the slider finishes the first half of its journey at the ring (at the limit of your reach).

- Then reach back and grab the slider itself to pull it forward the second half of its journey - WHICH YOU'RE DOING ANYWAY.

- When you sink to five hundred feet use one hand to push or both hands to grab the flaps of the pod and pull them apart to pull the slider back about halfway down.

- If you save you can easily close the pod and if you keep sinking you can easily blow the pod the rest of the way open with your knees.

- If you ever get stuck in the pod don't worry about it much down to two hundred feet and after that don't - UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES - worry about it AT ALL. Just land the fuckin' glider and take care of the grass stains at home.

...although I've hit the boot of my pod with my heels on a launch run before.

But a nonissue, right?

Not when they're unzipped.

After my modifications I never had that problem.

I wonder if a cocoon wouldn't be warmer than an unzipped pod.

No question whatsoever - and I speak from experience on this one.

But don't forget that extra lines in the airflow mean more feet per minute down and fewer miles per hour forward. And on some of those marginal days during which your worried about the interruption of your flying necessary to close the pod a few feet per minute and/or miles per hour can make the difference between getting a few minutes and several hours of airtime.

Since I don't fly XC and generally land where I launched...

WHAT?!?!?!

Tad Eareckson - 2012/02/09 23:02:24 UTC

Of the Day 1, Flight 1 students we force to develop foot landing skills only a very small fraction will ever land anywhere other than the Happy Acres putting green.

You never land anywhere but other than the Happy Acres putting greens?!

This is a slap in the face to all the dedicated instructors who expended all the blood, sweat, and tears it took to teach you to land in a narrow dry riverbed with large rocks strewn all over the place or a field filled with seven foot high corn. And the ONE TIME you missed the Happy Acres putting green and got into a little corn you broke two arms anyway. And the Bud Light Girls had to walk all the way over from the Happy Acres putting green and put your glider away with no help.

Your kind DISGUSTS me.

Really appreciate the offer but I'm planning to buy new (if I do)...I want something custom-fitted.

Yeah, I too wanted something custom fitted when I bought my FIRST Racer pod from Betty. But I had to buy another one to GET something that I could fly without being crippled.

I'm a bit shy of 6'1" and weighed about 175 when I ordered it. Gotta replace some webbing a Deer Mouse used for nesting material but otherwise it's in excellent shape.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=21474
fatal accident in Israel

skyshaddo - 2012/02/08 10:17:35 UTC
Point of the Mountain

My condolences, a terrible accident.

Blue Skies forever,
Shaddo

Jack Barth - 2012/02/08 16:09:27 UTC
Lake Elsinore
H4 (1979)

R.I.P.

Carm Moreno - 2012/02/08 16:15:49 UTC
Bay Area
H4 (started 1987)

Always tough hearing news like this!!
RIP!!
my heartfelt condolences to the family and friends.

Patrick O'Donnell - 2012/02/08 22:15:49 UTC
London, Ontario
Intermediate (H3)

My condolences to family and friends we are all family in this sport we love and to loose another fellow pilot is way too many. R.I.P. and may someone watch over all of us.

Really touching to see how choked up y'all are about this one.

- Did any of you bozos read the thread carefully enough to notice that he was killed ten months ago?

- All of you bozos were registered Jack Show members prior to the fatality and report. Were you just as choked up the first time you read it before forgetting all about it?

- How long will it take y'all to forget about it this time?

- Were any of you bozos concerned about this issue enough to:

-- participate in the FTHI thread Nobo- - sorry - Newton started before Jack and his loyal assholes had it shipped to The Free Speech Zo- - sorry - Basement?

-- protest Jack and his loyal assholes shipping it to The Basement?

- Is there some reason you bozos aren't addressing the issues in that thread in The Basement there or in this Yossi thread?