http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=4333
Gear Review - LMFP Tow Release
Lori Pignatelli - 2007/11/12 21:41:32 UTC
Atlanta
My lockout was the first time flying a new glider. And yeah, it was a Falcon, so don't laugh. But I was used to the Falcon 1 that LMFP has and this was my first time on the Falcon 3. It was so much more responsive to input that I overshot a correction.
I was paying attention, I just made a mistake.
Sorry...
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TUGS/message/1149
aerotow instruction was Re: Tug Rates
Tracy Tillman - 2011/02/10 20:08:32 UTC
Anybody who is truly a good pilot, in any form of aviation, knows that the knowledge, skills, and judgement you have in your head, learned from thorough instruction from a good instructor with a good curriculum, are the best pieces of equipment you can fly with. Good equipment is important, the best equipment is a well-trained brain.
You didn't have a well-trained brain - like Tracy's - so you deserved to die on crappy equipment. We can't have bozos like you out there endangering our precious tugs.
And yep, now I have that funny looking fin thing...
PilotGuy - 2007/11/12 22:02:13 UTC
California
The loop type of release that you guys are talking about is supposed to have a retaining string that runs from the metal shield that gets wrapped under the velcro that should tie to the downtube.
It's also..
This release shall be operational with zero tow line force up to twice the rated breaking strength of the weak link.
...supposed be operational with twice the rated breaking strength of the weak link - so I don't know why everybody's getting so bent out of shape by this issue.
This should keep it from pulling out from under the velcro, like you're talking about. This is a very real possibility, I'd say that one out of three times that I tested this setup, it pulls out from under the velcro.
Tested it under what tension?
I just went outside and took a picture of my release. You can see the hole in the metal shield, identified by the red arrow.
You can if you're not one of the people who've been declared by Saint Jack of Axaopoulos to be Pure Poison to the Sacred Sport of Hang Gliding.
Tie a string from this hole to your downtube to keep the release in place.
And then you'll have a better chance of prying the release open after about four pulls as long as you maintain the correct tow position (centered, with the wheels of the tug on the horizon). But if you can't, what the hell... The weak link will break before you can get into too much trouble. Either way you're pretty well covered.
Bill Reynolds - 2007/11/12 22:05:08 UTC
Thanks for the warning Randy. I'll be sure and check it out really well next time.
Thanks for the tip PilotGuy
This is a TIP ?!?!?! Just the kind of towing lore that one picks up along the way during chats with his buddies?
The United States Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association, Inc.
Standard Operating Procedure
12. Rating System
02. Pilot Proficiency System
12. Hang Gliding Aerotow Ratings
-A. Aerotow Rating (AT)
The aerotow skill is a demonstration of the pilot's ability to launch and tow successfully and safely behind a flying tow vehicle. This rating is available to Novice and above rated pilots, and may be demonstrated through "dolly" launch or other launch procedures. Pilots participating in aerotowing are required to have the aerotow rating or be under the supervision of an Aerotow Official. In order to receive the rating, a pilot must pass the AT written exam and demonstrate the following to an Aerotow Official:
1. Demonstrates the assembly and preflight of the system, including inspection of the tow line, tow line connection, tow bridles, and releases.
Is making sure you have pins installed in your control frame corners also a TIP?
Randy - 2007/11/12 22:13:07 UTC
Thanks for the tip.
Jesus H. Christ.
It concerned me a bit when I saw the release pull through like that but I'm not familiar with them enough to know exactly how they were set up.
1. Why not? What the hell are they teaching you in this "program"?
2. How much in the way of brains does it take to look at something like this and determine that it's a dangerous piece of shit? Velcroing a cable housing to aluminum tubing for a critical aircraft control system looks OK to you? If you were looking for a bike for your daughter and found one with brakes operated by cable loops velcroed onto the handlebars would you buy and send her into traffic with it?
Gotta wonder why the one on the trainer wasn't secured better.
Same reason they gave Judy a helmet that falls off off on the way down to impact from the whipstall that Lauren instructed her to do, Dave Johnson's fourteen year old daughter plummeted forty feet into the trees from the ramp she'd been cleared to use for her first high flight, and none of the tandems uses a weak link. You're training with a bunch of totally unregulated motherfuckers who answer to NO ONE, do whatever the hell they feel like, are past masters at covering up crash incidents, and run a total shit operation from top to bottom.
If everything goes well I plan to complete my AT training next week.
Everything's NOT going well. If you complete your AT training next week you'll have been signed off by the negligent motherfuckers who couldn't even be bothered to rig that piece of crap release on their TRAINER so it had a reasonable chance of working with the glider straight and level. If you get signed off what makes you think that you'll be any more qualified to hook up behind a tug than Dave Johnson's daughter was to be on that ramp?
I'll be sure to give it a good going over before flying.
Will that good going over include a check to see if it functions reliably under the kind of load that Roy Messing was experiencing halfway into his fatal low level lockout?
Sorry dude, you're trying - but you've already flunked the qualifications for an AT rating.
David W. Johnson - 2007/11/12 22:42:33 UTC
Huntsville, Alabama
I discovered what that little hole was for the hard way. Mine came off in my hand when I tried to release.
1. Was this before or after your friendly neighborhood flight park almost killed your daughter?
2. Any other family members you want dead?
Luckily, when I test my primary I immediately hit my secondary as well. There was no conscious thought when my primary failed. The secondary went off less than one second later.
1. That wasn't your secondary, dude. That was your BACKUP.
2. Did you think in less than one second what would've happened to you if the bottom end of the bridle had wrapped at the tow ring?
3. Did you any of those motherfuckers tell you what happens to you if the bottom end of the bridle had wraps at the tow ring?
4. Do you think you would've been off in less than a second and come out smelling so rosy if you had discovered this little problem in the course of a lockout at fifty feet rather than while you were straight and level during wave-off at two grand?
5. If you do you're a total moron.
Since I attached that piece of string, I haven't had another problem.
Well then... I guess there's absolutely no need whatsoever to load test this piece of crap, consider the implications of any of the reports of this piece of crap locking up at altitude, or make any effort to fly in compliance with the regulations covering aerotowing.
Are ya OK putting your daughter up on this thing? I'm guessing you are 'cause you were OK letting Matt put her on the ramp without double checking to see if she was properly trained and ready.
I haven't tried the other type release, but with the Lookout release, make sure there is plenty of slack in the release cable behind the tow point on the glider. If you have the line too tight, the release can pop on its own.
Why would that issue be any different with the pieces of crap with brake levers on the bottom end?
Lori Pignatelli - 2007/11/12 23:00:37 UTC
If you have the line too tight, the release can pop on its own.
Been there, done that.
Demonstrates the assembly and preflight of the system, including inspection of the tow line, tow line connection, tow bridles, and releases.
Really great program Matt's running, isn't it Lori?
