landing

[Zack C]

A few weeks ago I was coming in to land at Columbus while a thermal was kicking off (I think). I could see the trees shaking on approach and knew it would be interesting and was indeed tossed around a bit. After getting thrown towards the ground I quickly transitioned...then all was mellow and I thought I was going to have an uneventful landing. The instant before I flared, however, my right wing shot up. With no speed or altitude to correct it (and with hands high on the downtubes), I knew I was going down on a leading edge so just sort of half flared to arrest some forward speed. Took out a downtube. Otherwise the glider and I were OK. I have it on video, though the angles aren't very good (password = 'red'):
http://vimeo.com/39603685

Splat

I've asked myself, many times, what I could have done in that situation. I'm really not sure. But I'm thinking the outcome would have been better if I'd stayed prone. Even if I got a wing lifted, I'd have had less altitude for things to turn south and better control to try to correct it.

Zack

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27086
Steve Pearson on landings

Steve Pearson - 2012/03/28 23:26:05 UTC

I wouldn't presume to teach others how to land but for me the challenge is having precise control of the glider before flare. The flare window is really long on a T2, maybe two seconds or fifty feet, but I can't initiate pitch unless the wings are level and the glider isn't yawed. Landing straight is easy in smooth or dead air but sometimes requires every bit of control authority that I can manage if the LZ is breaking off or if I have to maneuver late on approach. I always have plenty of pitch authority and don't grip the downtubes because it only takes a light push to get the nose up. I can't control the glider in strong air with my hands at shoulder or ear height and I'd rather land on my belly with my hands on the basetube than get turned downwind.

My other comment is that I like to make a long low final. I can flare more aggressively from close to the ground, I don't have to worry about mushing through a gradient and I'm only arresting forward motion.

http://vimeo.com/36062225

T2 Landing 2/1/2012

[Zack C]

Seems to me like Steve would still be vulnerable to what happened to me. What if he got popped while transitioning or during the brief period between transitioning and flaring?

I transition late but not quite as late as him. My reasoning is that if I get popped while transitioning I'll still have a little energy to deal with the aftermath.

Zack

[Tad Eareckson]

What if he got popped while transitioning or during the brief period between transitioning and flaring?

What if he DIDN'T transition?

I transition late but not quite as late as him.

Transition as late as him. Shoulda learned that before your very first standup landing attempt.

My reasoning is that if I get popped while transitioning I'll still have a little energy to deal with the aftermath.

Your (and hang gliding's) reasoning is BACKWARDS. A little energy is something that's gonna make the aftermath a little - OR A LOT - more interesting. Energy is the enemy when you're trying to stop a plane (or anything else that comes readily to mind).

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27086
Steve Pearson on landings

Steve Pearson - 2012/03/28 23:26:05 UTC

I can't control the glider in strong air with my hands at shoulder or ear height and I'd rather land on my belly with my hands on the basetube than get turned downwind.

Zack C - 2012/04/26 13:19:53 UTC

But I'm thinking the outcome would have been better if I'd stayed prone. Even if I got a wing lifted, I'd have had less altitude for things to turn south and better control to try to correct it.

Blatant PLAGIARISM.

The idea is to get the goddam glider down dead level with a good head of steam to a few inches off the surface (or grass level), stay on the freakin' basetube maximizing control until you've bled off as much as possible of the energy that Mother Nature can and WILL use to fuck you over whenever she gets the chance, and then get the glider stopped at the point when there's just not enough steam (kinetic energy) or altitude (potential energy) left to bend anything.

But you tried to land the way Steve told you to in your owner's manual and not the way Steve lands HIMSELF to keep from breaking HIS arms and downtubes.

If you had landed like THIS:

7:15
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72SJu09S-Y0

8-71716-C
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7369/13962618245_163eb65caa_o.png


http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2920/13939515566_f9b68a2595_o.png
9-72800-C

you'd have been OK. Period.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=25536
Whoops! Snapped another tip wand :-O

NMERider - 2012/03/14 15:17:14 UTC

Landing clinics don't help in real world XC flying. I have had the wind do 180 degree 15 mph switches during my final legs. What landing clinic have you ever attended that's going to help? I saved that one by running like a motherfukker. And BTW - It was on large rocks on an ungroomed surface.

Jim Rooney's one-technique-fits-all attitude espoused on the Oz Report Forum has become tiresome to read. It does not work in the fucked-up world of XC landings and weary pilots.

NMERider - 2012/03/14 15:43:09 UTC

I refuse to come in with both hands on the downtubes ever again. I have had some very powerful thermals and gusts kick off and lost control of the glider due to hands on the downtubes. I prefer both hands on the control bar all the way until trim and ground effect. I have been lifted right off the deck in the desert and carried over 150 yards.

I like what Steve Pearson does when he comes in and may adapt something like that.

http://vimeo.com/36062225

T2 Landing 2/1/2012

In that case I would need to use the Big O Loop and do about ten reps in a single day.

Christopher LeFay - 2012/03/15 05:57:43 UTC

<rant> January's canonization of Rooney as the Patron Saint of Landing was maddening. He offered just what people wanted to hear: there is an ultimate, definitive answer to your landing problems, presented with absolute authority. Judgment problems? His answer is to remove judgment from the process - doggedly stripping out critical differences in gliders, loading, pilot, and conditions. This was just what people wanted - to be told a simple answer. In thanks, they deified him, carving his every utterance in Wiki-stone. </rant>

You just proved why Rooney's world famous thesis on landing is useless crap in real air. I don't give a rat's ass how wonderful your flare timing is. A gust, thermal, rotor comes along and your beautiful little equation instantly becomes dog meat.

You had things well enough under control that you weren't in any real danger of getting hurt but you trashed a hundred dollar downtube.

How many consecutive deliberate wheel landings would you do at Columbus if I paid you a hundred bucks?

I'm pretty confident that - with the wheels you have on your Sport 2 - I can go for standup landings every time without hurting myself and just bending or snapping an occasional downtube. But that makes it IMPOSSIBLE to break even in this game in the long run.

After over a quarter century in this sport I started noticing that I hadn't managed to "perfect" this stunt, nobody else I knew had, and it was just plain stupid to keep doing the same thing over and over again expecting better results.

A few weeks ago I was coming in to land at Columbus while a thermal was kicking off (I think). I could see the trees shaking on approach and knew it would be interesting and was indeed tossed around a bit. After getting thrown towards the ground I quickly transitioned...then all was mellow and I thought I was going to have an uneventful landing.

You were gambling. You KNEW you were gambling. You lost.

Save the standups for situations in which you know you have a pretty good hand and fold when Mother Nature is smiling a little too much.

P.S. Jonathan... It doesn't work at nicely groomed airports with fresh pilots after twenty minute hops either. That's been proven beyond any shadow of a reasonable doubt tens of thousands of times over.

[Tad Eareckson]

Your choices are to land in the grass or on pavement.

Grass, thank you very much. Maybe even raw sewage.

The first guy in the video is a new H2 and demonstrates the hazards of trying to do a conventional wheel landing in grass like this.

Given that you're supposed to treat the top of the grass as the surface (and it's a pretty good bet that he was briefed to that effect shortly beforehand), on his first effort he doesn't try to do ANY kind of landing - he just flies it into the ground.
Second landing he comes out OK but the job he does is certainly nothing to write home about.
Looks like you've got a nice breeze with which to cheat but the video still seems to be a pretty good argument that - even in no wind - staying prone on the basetube over that grass, flaring hard from that position, and belly flopping in could produce results a lot better than a lot of foot landings - in high AND short grass - that I know about.

Wing area over total weight.

I think there's a pretty good case to be made that if a hang gliding student just does the precise opposite of everything he's taught he could do really well in this sport.

http://www.shga.com/glossaryOfTerms.asp
Glossary of Terms

BACK UP - secondary hang loop used as precaution in case main loop fails during flight.

In case main loop fails and the glider itself DOESN'T.

Mike Meier - 2005/08/~18

Years ago we didn't even put backup hang loops on our gliders (there's no other component on your glider that is backed up, and there are plenty of other components that are more likely to fail, and where the failure would be just as serious), but for some reason the whole backup hang loop thing is a big psychological need for most pilots.

It's a pacifier for and capitulation to total idiots.

CARABINER - locking metal link used to attach harness to hang loops.

Yes. All carabiners are locking and if you don't lock yours you will fall out of your glider and die. Unless you're flying over water. Then you've gotta leave it unlocked and you won't fall out of your glider. And even if you do, what the hell, it's just water ferchrisake.

CROSSBARS - main glider structural members that run between keel and leading edges. Hidden inside sail on double-surface gliders.

Cross spars.

DIHEDRAL - upward angling of wing tips to make glider more stable in roll.

I don't care what the goddam dictionary says. Dihedral is either positive or negative and ANHEDRAL does NOT mean negative dihedral.

DIVERGENCE - tendency for glider to increase steepness of dive. Indicates dangerous lack of pitch stability.

Also means the tendency of a glider to pitch up and stall.

FLARE - raising the nose sharply to stall the glider for landing.

Or, quite commonly, crashing.

HANG CHECK - hanging in harness while attached to glider before launch to check suspension system and ensure that pilot has hooked in.

Thank you very much George Stebbins and Honorary Director Joe Greblo.

HANG STRAP - suspension strap the pilot hooks in to before launch. (There are always two hang straps - a main and a back up.)

Yeah, make sure you've got that pacifier when you're doing your hang check to ensure that you're hooked in.

RATING - official certificate attesting to a pilot's skill level. Issued by hang gliding organizations such as the United States Hang Gliding Association.

Mostly attests to someone's popularity.

TANDEM - flying dual - pilot and passenger are suspended side by side in separate harnesses.

But not over/under.

WEAK LINK - section of line used in hang glider towing systems. Breaks at specified load to protect glider from gusts and overloading.

Yeah, gotta protect that glider from gusts. Until it's off tow when it can handle gusts just fine.

I picked 'none of the above' on the test.

Does that mean you're now cleared for your dream sled run? Or are they gonna make you take the test over in six months 'cause you missed one?

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16983
Landing a Moyes Extralite 164

Jaco Herbst - 2009/08/16 13:42:28 UTC

We fly like that (hands on the control bar)... why not land like that?

George Stebbins - 2009/08/16 17:37:41 UTC

In no particular order, and not a complete list:

01) Because our heads hitting the ground can kill us.
02) Because crashing on our feet is unlikely to kill us.
03) Because we can run faster on our feet than on our ears. (To quote Greg DeWolf.)
04) Because crashing feet first a dozen times is better than crashing head first even one time.
05) Because doing all that stuff (getting upright, moving two hands, keeping pitch correct) all at the same time just before landing is asking for a mistake.
06) Because you should be going fast into your ground skimming, and going fast head-first near the ground is risky. Just ask Chris Muller. Oh wait, you can't: He hit head first. And he was way better than most of us.
07) Because it is inherently obvious to anyone not prejudiced against it that approaching with your landing gear down is better than putting it down at the last second, unless there is some hugely overriding reason not to do so (Space Shuttle is an example.)
08) Because your legs are the strongest bones in your body, and your neck is one of the most fragile.
09) Because I'd rather break my leg (or even arm) than my neck if things go wrong. (Wouldn't you?)
10) Because landing is the most difficult thing we typically do in a hang glider. Why increase the danger?
11) Because I have had too many friends die from head impacts, and a few become (partially) paralyzed. Your mileage may differ.
12) Because I think it is more important to be alive than to have my friends think I am cool.
13) Because dead people are no longer cool. And if in some way they still are, they can't enjoy it.
14) Because the only reason you are used to flying prone more is that you do it more. Fly upright some each flight, and you'll find you can do it quite nicely on landing too. Practice matters.
15) Because there are only three reasons we fly prone at altitude, and none of them should matter much during landing: 1) Streamlining, 2) Comfort, 3) we are used to it.
...

And being able to "stick it" is a valuable tool in our arsenal, I agree. As much as I'm an advocate of the Greblo method (moon walk), you can't to it in tall grass, exceptionally uneven terrain etc. To do it, you need something you can actually run on for a few steps. That isn't always possible.

(I landed in Yosemite a few weeks ago, and the grass was head-high! No freakin' way I could do the moon walk. Of course, the next day, I landed in an area with known shorter grass, and did the moon walk. But that's not always possible.)

My apologies to Chris's friends and family (I count myself as at least a passing friend). But the truth is the truth.

George, you're full of shit.

Because our heads hitting the ground can kill us.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkElZMhpmp0

Now show me a video or cite me an incident of someone coming into a sane landing field, staying prone, and hitting his head.

Because crashing on our feet is unlikely to kill us.

1. I don't know if you caught the topic here but it's about LANDING - not CRASHING. I know that after seeing untold thousands of people coming into LZs working on perfecting their flare timing the distinction becomes a bit fuzzy, but there IS supposed to be one.

Because we can run faster on our feet than on our ears.

What happens when you're running fast on your feet...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27425
Why we love wheels

Davis Straub - 2012/04/18 12:37:06 UTC

I run as fast, but it took only one slight trip to rip my supraspinatus tendon.

...and you trip - just once?

(To quote Greg DeWolf.)

You mean the Greg DeWolf who broke his arm trying to run out a totally unnecessary tandem foot landing at Manquin?

Because crashing feet first a dozen times is better than crashing head first even one time.

1. And LANDING is almost always preferable to crashing - even in hang gliding.
2. And the people who come in head first and thus in control of the fucking glider intent on LANDING tend to crash a whole lot less than people who come in upright intent on perfecting their flare timing and stopping on their feet.
3. And people who are in situations in which a crash is a distinct possibility are virtually always proned out with the bar stuffed doing everything they can to avoid crashing.
4. And virtually no one rotates upright in such a situation 'cause it's pretty fucking obvious that if he does something that STUPID he'll have ZERO PERCENT chance of recovering and something at or close to a HUNDRED PERCENT probability of dying.
5. And people who DO crash on their feet tend not to STAY on their feet. They almost always slam their heads in a lot harder than the would have if they hadn't tried to crash on their feet in the first place.

Because doing all that stuff (getting upright, moving two hands, keeping pitch correct) all at the same time just before landing is asking for a mistake.

Well then, let's see how much of that stuff we really need to do.
- Keeping pitch correct... Yeah, that's a keeper. And we can keep it correct a lot easier with our hands on the basetube - so let's stay with that.
- Getting upright...

Christian Thoreson - 2004/10

Thus wheel landings, the safest and easiest way to consistently land a hang glider...

No, not really seeing much percentage in that one. Let's cross it off the list.
- Moving two hands? WHY? Degrades pitch control and we've decided to roll in anyway. Fuck that.
Everybody good with this?

Because you should be going fast into your ground skimming, and going fast head-first near the ground is risky.

Yeah?

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=22176
Paragliding Collapses

Jim Rooney - 2011/06/12 13:57:58 UTC

Most common HG injury... spiral fracture of the humerus.

So how many people do we hear about breaking necks ground skimming? And don't give me any crap about people not being stupid enough to do it 'cause I've got a lot more dune flying that you do and I've seen a lot more tandem landings than you have.

Just ask Chris Muller. Oh wait, you can't: He hit head first. And he was way better than most of us.

He wasn't better than me. I never took a bladewing down to two and a half feet off the deck at twenty miles per hour over VNE and tried to snatch a goodie bag off the top of a traffic cone. You fuck up that stunt just once it INSTANTLY puts you in second place to anybody who isn't dead.
The discussion is about LANDING, George. If that's the best you can do then maybe you should put some serious thought into shutting the fuck up.

Because it is inherently obvious to anyone not prejudiced against it that approaching with your landing gear down is better than putting it down at the last second...

I don't have retractable landing gear, George. I've got a pair of eight inch pneumatic Finsterwalders in place at all times. If everything's looking good I'll often put it down on my feet instead of using my landing gear but it's still there to maybe/probably help out if I fuck up the foot landing. And once I'm down proned out in skim mode you can put a rifle slug through my head and my landing is still gonna be a lot less eventful of one of Lauren's that comes to mind.

Because your legs are the strongest bones in your body, and your neck is one of the most fragile.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11946
Once again with wheels

Rich Jesuroga - 2008/05/19 17:49:23 UTC

A few years back a friend who had good landing skills missed ONE. Stuck his speed bar in the dirt and whacked hard. He swung through the control bar and hit the top of his helmet on the keel buckling his neck. He was a quadriplegic for eight months before committing suicide. Would wheels have worked? YES - no debate by those who were there and witnessed the accident.

Get fucked.

Because I'd rather break my leg (or even arm) than my neck if things go wrong. (Wouldn't you?)

Yes George, I WOULD rather you break your leg (or even arm) than your neck if things go wrong - although I could live with any of the above.
But as for me... I'm gonna take the landing that gives me THE BEST CONTROL...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27086
Steve Pearson on landings

Steve Pearson - 2012/03/28 23:26:05 UTC

Landing straight is easy in smooth or dead air but sometimes requires every bit of control authority that I can manage if the LZ is breaking off or if I have to maneuver late on approach. I always have plenty of pitch authority and don't grip the downtubes because it only takes a light push to get the nose up. I can't control the glider in strong air with my hands at shoulder or ear height and I'd rather land on my belly with my hands on the basetube than get turned downwind.

...and is least likely to break or bend ANYTHING.

Because landing is the most difficult thing we typically do in a hang glider.

Yeah.

Gil Dodgen - 1995/01

All of this reminds me of a comment Mike Meier made when he was learning to fly sailplanes. He mentioned how easy it was to land a sailplane (with spoilers for glide-path control and wheels), and then said, "If other aircraft were as difficult to land as hang gliders no one would fly them."

There's a REASON for that, George.

Why increase the danger?

Christian Thoreson - 2004/10

Thus wheel landings, the safest and easiest way to consistently land a hang glider...

Because it just wouldn't be hang gliding if we didn't do every incredibly stupid thing we could to make it as insanely dangerous and miserable as humanly possible.

Because I have had too many friends die from head impacts, and a few become (partially) paralyzed.

Yeah George. 'Cause they were all landing prone with both hands on the basetube. Just like Chris Muller - who was the only example you cited.

Because I think it is more important to be alive than to have my friends think I am cool.

Yeah George. People like Steve Pearson, Doug Rice, Mike Barber, Bob Grant, Jayne DePanfilis, Frank Sauber, and Yours Truly are staying on the basetube so we can look cool.

Because dead people are no longer cool.

WHAT dead people?
You want dead people try ones like Tom Perfetti, Gerry Smith, Bill Vogel, Tony Ameo, and John Seward.

Because dead people are no longer cool.

They're all way cooler than whistleblowers.

Because the only reason you are used to flying prone more is that you do it more.

And the reason I do it more is because that's how the glider is designed to be flown and best controlled - be the altitude measured in miles or inches.

Fly upright some each flight, and you'll find you can do it quite nicely on landing too.

1. I got a better idea... Launch, fly, and land with spending as little time upright as possible and with optimal control authority as much as possible.
2. I don't need to do it landing and I can land a lot nicer without doing it, thank you very much.

Practice matters.

You can practice upright foot landings till hell freezes over and they won't ever be as controlled, safe, easy, and consistent as prone wheel landings.

Because there are only three reasons we fly prone at altitude, and none of them should matter much during landing: 1) Streamlining, 2) Comfort, 3) we are used to it.

Bullshit. You left out speed range and control authority. And those are very much interrelated. And those are fuckin' HUGE issues at landing.

And being able to "stick it" is a valuable tool in our arsenal, I agree.

So's an ejection seat in an F-18. But it's a good idea not to get into a situation in which you need to use it and it's probably best not to practice using it too much.

As much as I'm an advocate of the Greblo method (moon walk), you can't to it in tall grass, exceptionally uneven terrain etc. To do it, you need something you can actually run on for a few steps. That isn't always possible.

But it's MASSIVELY possible to never land anywhere in which you can't actually run on for a few steps.

I landed in Yosemite a few weeks ago, and the grass was head-high!

Glad you pulled it off OK, George.

No freakin' way I could do the moon walk.

How much of a freakin' way is there that you could pull that off on a regular basis and keep making those flights worthwhile?

Of course, the next day, I landed in an area with known shorter grass, and did the moon walk. But that's not always possible.

Yeah George, somebody had a gun to your head at the Glacier Point launch. So a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do.

My apologies to Chris's friends and family (I count myself as at least a passing friend). But the truth is the truth.

Yeah, just be real careful about twisting, distorting, misrepresenting, misusing it to make some lunatic point.

[miguel]

Sorry, but I am not embarrassed. I have a plate load of real life to deal with right now.

I will be back.

[Zack C]

What if he DIDN'T transition?

Well, he couldn't get popped while transitioning, but then we wouldn't be talking about his technique...

A little energy is something that's gonna make the aftermath a little - OR A LOT - more interesting. Energy is the enemy when you're trying to stop a plane (or anything else that comes readily to mind).

Yes, but it's certainly not the enemy when you're trying to control a plane, and I don't want to stop the plane if my wings aren't level.

Blatant PLAGIARISM.

Haha...there's a difference in what we're saying. I'm talking about making a conscious decision to wheel land at some point in the approach. Steve's talking about deciding not to transition only after getting popped just before transitioning.

But you tried to land the way Steve told you to in your owner's manual and not the way Steve lands HIMSELF to keep from breaking HIS arms and downtubes.

If you had landed like THIS:

7:15
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72SJu09S-Y0

8-71716-C
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7369/13962618245_163eb65caa_o.png


http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2920/13939515566_f9b68a2595_o.png
9-72800-C

you'd have been OK. Period.

I agree that if I landed like the video I'd have been OK, but that's not the way Steve lands.

You just proved why Rooney's world famous thesis on landing is useless crap in real air.

In his defense...he does say he doesn't have all the answers for landing in 'real air' and that sometimes taking out a downtube is inevitable.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=105358#105358
(He also says 'Don't even semi-flare' if your wings aren't level. After analyzing the video, I think 'semi-flaring' in my case helped.)

You were gambling. You KNEW you were gambling. You lost.

Yep. Back in my H2 days I was open to wheel landing if things weren't going my way. As I gained proficiency in foot landing (and got a new glider with small wheels I wasn't crazy about using), I became rigid in my choice of landing method. It's not going to be easy to untrain myself to be open to wheel landing again.

Does that mean you're now cleared for your dream sled run? Or are they gonna make you take the test over in six months 'cause you missed one?

I actually took the test a year ago...I was just waiting on the landing task. Decided I was just going to do the runway so set up the cones last weekend, had three flights, and ended up nailing the damn center cone on all three of them. (It's a lot easier when you don't try to combine it with the RLF task while going around cars...) So yeah, it should be official soon.

Zack

[Tad Eareckson]

Well, he couldn't get popped while transitioning, but then we wouldn't be talking about his technique...

His technique - and mindset - is to prioritize control over stopping it on his feet until almost the last possible instant and bail if things aren't going well. And that's so close to a wheel landing that I'm fairly happy with it.

Yes, but it's certainly not the enemy when you're trying to control a plane, and I don't want to stop the plane if my wings aren't level.

Exactly.

- When you have the energy to control the plane you use the energy to control the plane. When you don't the plane's a second away from falling on the runway anyway and you've done everything you could.
- And if Mother Nature gives you some more energy at a moment you really rather she hadn't you resume using it to control the plane.

Haha...there's a difference in what we're saying.

1. Close enough. The odds of bending something either way are pretty low.
2. I also strongly suspect that when Steve notes that the air is iffy on the approach he's gearing for bellying in.

I agree that if I landed like the video I'd have been OK, but that's not the way Steve lands.

We haven't seen a video of him bellying in but if we did I'll bet it would look a lot like Bob's.

In his defense...he does say he doesn't have all the answers for landing in 'real air' and that sometimes taking out a downtube is inevitable.

There is NOTHING essential in this sport that's so mysterious and difficult to understand that any Hang 2.5 can't and shouldn't have down rock solid before he starts doing stuff without a babysitter - and Wilbur and Orville had it all mapped out well over a century ago.

Can you fly in sane conditions, come into a sane field, make all the right calls, and execute everything properly and still take out a downtube?

Probably. But maybe it's something that should only happen in one out of ten flying careers.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27086
Steve Pearson on landings

Steve Pearson - 2012/03/28 23:26:05 UTC

I wouldn't presume to teach others how to land but for me the challenge is having precise control of the glider before flare. The flare window is really long on a T2, maybe two seconds or fifty feet, but I can't initiate pitch unless the wings are level and the glider isn't yawed. Landing straight is easy in smooth or dead air but sometimes requires every bit of control authority that I can manage if the LZ is breaking off or if I have to maneuver late on approach. I always have plenty of pitch authority and don't grip the downtubes because it only takes a light push to get the nose up. I can't control the glider in strong air with my hands at shoulder or ear height and I'd rather land on my belly with my hands on the basetube than get turned downwind.

My other comment is that I like to make a long low final. I can flare more aggressively from close to the ground, I don't have to worry about mushing through a gradient and I'm only arresting forward motion.

There's not much more that ANYONE - first day student to Hang Five - really needs to know about landing a hang glider and can't do (although it probably wouldn't hurt to throw in a little Greblo moon walking to round things out a bit).

This is probably the one that had my eyes rolling the most in the course of that marathon:

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26379
Landings

Jim Rooney - 2012/02/13 18:41:23 UTC

All we're really looking for is a way to know, not to guess, when it's time to flare.

For dozens of reasons that I don't need to itemize 'cause everybody who's flown a hang glider more than a couple of weekends knows perfectly well - that will NEVER happen.

And speaking of TIMING...

With each flight, demonstrates a method of establishing that the pilot is hooked in just prior to launch.

1. THAT'S the where Rooney's got a serious timing problem which got him three quarters killed put his passenger in the hospital.

2. That's the single highest probability issue that Ashley should be worrying about killing her.

3. It requires NOTHING in the way of judgment, skill, or reflexes.

4. It's immune to the whims of Mother Nature (despite all the endless lunatic drivel one hears from assholes like Bob).

5. ANYBODY can hit it within a two to five second window.

6. But virtually NO ONE will DO IT - everyone is just so much happier spending weeks talking about the right nanosecond to punch a flare and explaining why "just prior" really means "five, ten minutes, whatever" or "Never get in your harness unless it's connected to your glider."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InzYS6tjWCg

1:25
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-8oVEo8ybA


Ever hear people cheer wildly when...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHWbu0su1fA


...someone does a hook-in check a second before his foot starts moving?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Om3FzFfV1YA


Ever hear anyone yell...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEhuBU64t18


..."DEEEEEAD!!!" when somebody runs off a ramp without any pretense of a hook-in check?

After analyzing the video, I think 'semi-flaring' in my case helped.

You're talking about what to do AFTER you hit the iceberg. We need to put as much focus as possible into not hitting the iceberg.

It's not going to be easy to untrain myself to be open to wheel landing again.

1. Not if you start coming in committed to the wheels with a thought of bailing to your feet if everything's looking good with three seconds to go - which is what I wish I'd have started doing long before the end of my career.
2. Switch to the Dvorak keyboard layout first. After a week and a half of that transitional hell you won't even notice any other rewiring efforts.

So yeah, it should be official soon.

See how much of a BFD it is to do a deliberate bellyflop into the meadow.

[Zack C]

His technique - and mindset - is to prioritize control over stopping it on his feet until almost the last possible instant and bail if things aren't going well.

Yes. Until ALMOST the last possible instant. That leaves time for something to happen after he decides to stop it on his feet and compromise control and before he stops. You still haven't answered what he would/could do if he got popped while transitioning. He'd be in the same boat I was, would he not?

See how much of a BFD it is to do a deliberate bellyflop into the meadow.

Yeah, I think I'm going to pass on that. Not that I don't think it's possible, just that it's riskier.

Zack