You are NEVER hooked in.

General discussion about the sport of hang gliding
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: You are NEVER hooked in.

Post by Tad Eareckson »

Subj: hang checks
Date: 2011/06/10 22:47:24 UTC
From: Tad Eareckson
To--: Bob Kuczewski

Would you have blown a hole in the wall if you hadn't pulled the magazine and checked the chamber first?
I asked that question after a lightbulb came on following phone conversation shortly before.

It was one of scores in which I was wasting many cubic yards of precious breath trying to drive the concept of a hook-in check...
Steve Kinsley - 1998/05/01 01:16

"With EACH flight, demonstrates method of establishing that pilot is hooked in JUST PRIOR to launch." Emphasis in original.-- USHGA beginner through advanced requirement.

I know of only three people that actually do this. I am one of them. I am sure there are more but not a lot more. Instead we appear to favor ever more complex (and irrelevant) hang checks or schemes like Marc advocates that possibly increase rather than decrease the risk of hook in failure.
...through Bob's hopelessly thick skull.

I was using my analogy that confidently running off a ramp with a glider because of a memory of a recent suspension check is identical to confidently pointing a loaded gun at one's head and pulling the trigger because of a memory of a recent safety mechanism check.

Bob then recalled an amusing little anecdote from his army days.

He and maybe a half dozen buddies straggled behind at the barracks before heading out for some weekend off duty activities. One of said buddies produced a contraband pistol from a locker.

Bob took it and pulled the clip and checked the chamber.

As conversations continued Bob was idly cocking the gun and pulling the trigger.

I interrupted the recounting and said something along the lines of "Yeah, and now you're training yourself to do what's about to precipitate a big surprise to you and your buddies."

Conversations were about wrapped up, people were about to roll, and Bob replaced the magazine.

And everybody and his dog knows what's gonna happen a few seconds later.

Nobody got hurt, everybody's heartbeats got back down to survivable levels, and nobody appeared to ask any embarrassing questions.

So, shortly after our conversation I thought - PERFECT!!! No way in hell Bob would've pulled the trigger if he hadn't...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25550
Failure to hook in.
Christian Williams - 2011/10/25 03:59:58 UTC

What's more, I believe that all hooked-in checks prior to the last one before takeoff are a waste of time, not to say dangerous, because they build a sense of security which should not be built more than one instant before commitment to flight.
...previously unloaded and checked the gun. The prior checks built a sense of security which should not be built more than one instant before pulling the trigger and only INCREASED the probability of something really ugly happening.

So I fire off the note and - big surprise - never get an answer.

So in the course of a later telephone conversation I press him on the issue. To the best of my recollection I didn't get anywhere substantive with him. And this documented crap:

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=646
Failure to Hook In
Bob Kuczewski - 2011/07/22 21:30:23 UTC

I just talked with Joe, and he said that hang checks do have limited usefulness in protecting against hook-in failures, and that their value in that regard decreases with the time between the hang check and the launch (he's absolutely correct here). He also said that doing a hang check the moment before launch was just as good as a hook-in check at launch, but that a hang check can catch things that a hook-in check might not (like a hang strap routed around a down tube, as just one example). So your claim that hang checks aren't needed by pilots who use the same glider/harness combination is invalidated right there.
posted not long thereafter supports my recollection very nicely.

Nevertheless I told Bob that his little unloaded gun incident would be pure gold for me to use as a teaching tool and begged him to write it up and post it.

His response - which shouldn't have surprised me at that point but did - was that he had a lot of enemies out there and didn't want to give them ammunition to use against him.

So, I let the matter drop - until now.

- Bob DOES have a lot of enemies that he DOESN'T deserve.

- But that number pales in comparison to the number of enemies he DOESN'T have but very richly DOES deserve.

- Blowing a hole in a wall - or your foot or your little brother's head - with an unloaded gun is as human a mistake as launching yourself or your passenger off a ramp minus a connection to the glider. If one hasn't had benefit of proper training and conditioning it's a forgivable mistake.

- However... The honorable thing to do - once the statute of limitations is up anyway - upon having made mistake like that in which someone on the other side of the wall coulda died but no one was scratched, is to fess up and try to reduce the likelihood of someone blowing his little brother's brains out.

- The dishonorable thing to do is cover up and pretend that you're better than the guy who just got convicted of negligent homicide.

- And it just occurred to me three sentences ago that there's no freakin' way Bob was in the army without training to treat the gun as loaded and armed at all times regardless of what he had done previously to ensure that it wasn't.

- And we're seeing the EXACT SAME MINDSET AND BEHAVIOR on the hook-in check issue.
With each flight, demonstrates a method of establishing that the pilot is hooked in just prior to launch.
Just prior to launch means whatever I, Joe, Rick, Sam, or anyone else feels like calling it. And if anybody gets killed as result of our examples attitudes. Tough, shoulda stuck to checkers.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: You are NEVER hooked in.

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27567
Canadian fatality: What kind of guy swallows a memory card!?
Brian McMahon - 2012/05/15 22:05:38 UTC

It was brave of him to go public like that; it must have been gut wrenching to do it.
Bullshit.

- He didn't GO public. He's BEEN public - globally - for about two and a half weeks now and will be for the rest of his life.

- Reading that prepared written statement - which was undoubtedly vetted within an inch of its life by his lawyer - ONLY moves his political capital up from the bottom of the toilet.

- It cost him NOTHING.

- His gut couldn't possibly be any more wrenched than it is now.

- He's blaming swallowing the card on his panicked reaction and the presence of his twelve year old daughter. He's not blaming himself. I'm not hearing "I attempted to destroy evidence of my failure to follow procedures to ensure a safe flight. What I did was inexcusable and I offer no excuse. I'm sorry."

- He got his twelve year old daughter into the picture. Pure gold.

- Maybe he fessed up to the police about what happened to the card for the right reason, maybe he fessed up 'cause he started doing the math and realized that the story about having forgotten to pop the card in before the flight wouldn't hold up to more than two or three seconds of scrutiny and that the card didn't contain any evidence of anything that wasn't blindingly obvious already anyway.

- Jon spent his entire hang gliding career skipping hook-in checks and ignoring articles and discussions on preventing unhooked launches and killed a member of the general public thirty seconds into her first tandem hop and attempted to destroy evidence.

- I spent my entire hang gliding career doing hook-in checks and worked for years fighting against the training, procedures, and attitudes which lead - inevitably - to unhooked launch fatalities.

- I'm a hundred times more hated than Jon will ever be. The mainstream press will broadcast and/or print every syllable he utters and...
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...he has tons of support inside the cult.

- I haven't seen him do a single goddam thing so far to try to prevent the next one of these from happening.

- If he ever DOES decide to help do something worthwhile on this issue that WILL require courage because in will turn 99 percent of the support and good will from within the cult which he currently enjoys into pure undying hatred.

This guy's in hell right now and his life will never be a fraction of what it was on the morning of 2012/04/28. I sure don't wish him any more suffering and sure do wish I could turn the clock back for him but I'm still waiting to see any efforts towards atonement.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: You are NEVER hooked in.

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.kitestrings.org/post2090.html#p2090
Bob Kuczewski - 2012/05/06 23:36:52 UTC

I have a 4 year degree in Aeronautical and Astronautical Engineering. I've held a Private Pilot's licence (Single Engine Land and Sea) since the late 70's. I hold an advanced rating in hang gliding and paragliding. I've carried on numerous lengthy conversations with you where I've tried to find the truth through science, facts, reason, and logic without resorting to name calling, profanity, or false allegations.
http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=977
Flight Log (all flying-related activities welcome)
Bob Kuczewski - 2012/05/16 05:59:21 UTC

2012/05/13 - Torrey Pines

Hook In Check ... just before launch:
Image
Launch Run:
Image
So what are your credentials?
1. I can tell the difference between a hook-in check just before launch and a preflight inspection just before picking up, moving to launch position, trimming, clearing Ernie from the nose, and running off the cliff.

2. I understand that a four year degree in Aeronautical and Astronautical Engineering does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to qualify one as a scientist. (And I can't thank you enough for the mountains of evidence you've provided to make that abundantly clear to anyone with solid fourth grade or better reading comprehension skills.)

3. I understand that whenever somebody starts trotting out his "pilot" merit badges as qualifying evidence I'm listening to an idiot slimeball.

4. I can tell that when somebody - repeatedly - demonstrates that he's totally incapable of understanding and complying with a Hang One through Four basic requirement I'm not looking at someone who ever has the potential to become a hang glider pilot.

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=646
Failure to Hook In
Bob Kuczewski - 2011/07/23 18:33:40 UTC

I was flipped over on launch when I was a hang 2. I had my hands full (obviously more than full) just trying to control the glider ... let alone attempting to let it just "lift and tug" without pulling me off my feet. Earlier this year I was flying at Torrey when I witnessed a friend of mine get blown over on launch (broken bones ... healing nicely as I've heard). That was while he was doing his level best to just control the glider. Do you want to add more tricks for people to perform on a tricky launch?
http://www.kitestrings.org/post2128.html#p2128

You're ground handling, prepping, and launching with tight suspension in the strong soaring winds at Torrey. Holding the suspension loose would be adding a stupid dangerous trick.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: You are NEVER hooked in.

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27567
Canadian fatality: What kind of guy swallows a memory card!?
Brian McMahon - 2012/05/16 14:49:22 UTC

He came out and admitted that he screwed up in the worst possible way and that he was sorry for it.
And all this time we've been operating under the assumption that he'd done everything right and was totally cool with what happened.
I don't think anyone here cannot empathize with the fact that he overlooked the hook-in of the passenger and the result was catastrophic.
The catastrophe had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with overlooking the hook-in of the passenger.
That could have happened to anyone.
Overlooking the hook-in of the passenger - or oneself - COULD have happened to anyone. Subsequently dropping her could have only happened to the hang checkers and Aussie Methodists. It would not have happened to hook-in checkers.
He didn't try to point fingers at anyone else or anything else...
Neither did John Wilkes Booth. Not to say that what Jon did was in any way deliberate but the evidence as to what actually happened is even better - with or without the card.
...so regardless of the ensuing panic and swallowing of the memory card, it says a lot about his character and willingness to accept responsibility for his actions.
Bullshit. It's not like he had any choice. If this had been a carefully plotted murder he'd have said the exact same thing.
Hell, he even apologized to the HG community for the bad light his actions might have put on it.
Fuck the hang gliding "community". He put a ONE HUNDRED PERCENT ACCURATE light on it - ESPECIALLY when he swallowed the card. The goddam hang gliding "community" is EVERY BIT as responsible for this one as he is. NEVER ONCE in the history of the sport has anyone been sanctioned or castigated for skipping a hook-in check. He just happened to be the one left standing when the music stopped on this particular round.

Hell, he's way LESS culpable. While he didn't do shit to get the message he wasn't - to my knowledge - involved in its suppression.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: You are NEVER hooked in.

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=3235
Tandem passenger falls to her death - bad news
Steve Murillo - 2012/05/03 04:56:51 UTC
Manhattan Beach, California

This is a terrible tragedy that probably could have been avoided with a proper hang check.
Nah, this is just one of those routine cost-of-doing-business little fatalities that you've gotta learn to live with if you wanna stay in this sport. Get used to it 'cause - thanks to all you idiot hang checkers - nuthin's ever gonna change.

This is off the Sylmar Hang Gliding Association forum.

Manhattan Beach is about two and a half miles down the sand from where Joe Greblo is doing such a great job teaching assholes like Bob how to prevent unhooked launches.

Three responses, none worthy of comment.
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Re: You are NEVER hooked in.

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=26007
THE CODE AMONGST ALL PILOTS
Tim Dyer - 2012/05/05 17:39:12 UTC
Las Vegas

I repeat and check the "L's"

Loops - check hang loops are secure and in the right place
Locked - Biner is latched and locked
Lines - Lines are straight
Length - during hang check my height over the bar is correct
Legs - leg loops are secure
Lid - chin strap is secure.

anything else to add?
Yeah. We have twenty-five other letters of the alphabet we're totally wasting. Let's see what we can do with a few of them.

- Altimeter - set to launch elevation
- Belt - buckled
- Camera - aimed, focused, on
- Cell Phone - charged
- Driver - sober
- GPS - recording
- Hook Knife - safetied
- Instruments - firmware updated
- Insurance - paid up
- Parachute - repacked within six months
- Piss - taken
- Radio - on frequency
- Socks - pulled up
- Sunscreen - applied
- Sunglasses - strapped
- Tetanus Shots - up to date
- Vario - volume adjusted
- Wheels - inflated to 32 psi
Steve Kinsley - 1998/05/01 01:16

"With EACH flight, demonstrates method of establishing that pilot is hooked in JUST PRIOR to launch." Emphasis in original.-- USHGA beginner through advanced requirement.

I know of only three people that actually do this. I am one of them. I am sure there are more but not a lot more. Instead we appear to favor ever more complex (and irrelevant) hang checks or schemes like Marc advocates that possibly increase rather than decrease the risk of hook in failure.
Lets be safe out there
Yeah Tim.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1167
The way it outa be
Steve Kinsley - 2005/10/04 14:04:25 UTC

One last attempt.

We have now rounded up all the usual suspects and promised renewed vigilance, nine page checklists, hang checks every six feet, etc. Bob Gillisse redux.
Let's be focusing on all the really important stuff we might have forgotten about in the setup area or at the back of the ramp. We sure don't wanna have pilots or even passengers plummeting from gliders with unbuckled helmets. Otherwise things could get really ugly upon impact.
Allen Sparks - 2012/05/16 21:03

"With each flight, demonstrates a method of establishing that the pilot is hooked in just prior to launch" ...

so, just before launch, do a hook-in check and say out loud "I am hooked in".

Keeping with the L's theme:

Lift and tug, in light winds ; or
Lower (i.e. kneel) and tug, in stronger winds.

So, add one more L, for a total of 7.
Allen...

1. Do not EVER say out loud, mumble, whisper, think, and/or believe the sentence "I am hooked in." That is THE single most moronic, dangerous thing you can do in hang gliding.

"Hey everybody! This gun isn't armed. I just flipped the safety on. So relax already. Don't get all uptight when I start aiming it at my, your, or your girlfriend's head."

- One hundred percent of the people who've ended up as lifeless pulps below the ramp shortly afterwards believed the sentence "I am hooked in."

- The number of people who've believed the sentence "I am NOT hooked in" - regardless of whether or not they were right - who've launched unhooked is zero.

- The only way a person who believes the sentence "I am hooked in" can die is if all of the other thirty people within shouting distance of launch also believe the sentence "I am hooked in."

- If just one person amongst the thirty within shouting distance of launch believes someone under a glider is not hooked in then nobody will get hurt.

- Whenever I hear anybody say "I am hooked in" I know that a total moron is within seconds of commencing a procedure total morons have no business trying to execute and I drop what I'm doing and really start focusing on the bozo but I can't be at all launches at once and those words tend to have the precise opposite effect on damn near everyone else.

2. You do not ADD "lift and tug" to a bullshit list which includes USELESS DISTRACTING PREFLIGHT CRAP like backup loops, locked carabiners, straight suspension lines, bar clearance, and chinstraps.

LIFT AND TUG IS NOT PART OF *ANY* LIST. IT IS THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT THING YOU WILL EVER DO IN YOUR LIFE *EVERY* TIME YOU FOOT LAUNCH.

Run that by Bille Floyd next time you see him and lemme know if he takes issue with any of it.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=18876
Hang glider Crash
Allen Sparks - 2010/09/07 01:03:18 UTC

I am a firm believer in 'lift and tug' and the mindset of assuming I am not hooked in.
You can't POSSIBLY be a firm believer in maintaining the mindset of assuming you're not hooked in if you're telling yourself and everyone else you ARE.

I was gonna write something regarding how just about all the time it's a lot worse to send out confusing messages with good stuff mixed with crap than it is to say nothing but a wee bit before 2012/05/17 03:13:04 UTC I discovered that Post 21 of that thread has been deleted.

You or Jack? I'd guess Jack 'cause he's really into deleting posts which support points I've made but there are a lot of valuable YouTube videos of yours that ain't around no more.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: You are NEVER hooked in.

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.rmhpa.org/messageboard/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4258
HG accident in Vancouver
Mike Benzie - 2012/05/02 13:21:40 UTC
Safety Director
Rocky Mountain Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association
McLearn also watched Orders set up his Glider and says he missed a crucial safety check.

"I was there pretty much for the entire time that they showed up until the time they launched and I did not see a hang check performed," she said.

A hang check is executed by having a pilot and passenger hang from a stationary glider to make sure they are properly attached.
This should be a good lesson for anyone that sees that a hang glider has missed his/her hang check, you shouldn't just stand there and say to yourself that they missed there hang check then let them fly off, like this paraglider pilot did. I say if you see it happen let someone know quickly then they can check it for them or you personally go up to the hang glider in question and help him/her do a hang check.

It really amazes me that this women has no problem telling authorities that she saw him never do a hang check and let him launch!
A hang check is executed by having a pilot and passenger hang from a stationary glider to make sure they are properly attached.
1. A hang check tells you ONLY that you're suspended from something capable of supporting your unaccelerated mass and your clearance from the basetube.

2. A hang check DOES NOT tell you are properly attached. People who have executed hang checks have died shortly afterwards because their leg loops were not engaged, their carabiners were not fully engaged, and what they were connected to was not incapable of sustaining them in flight.
This should be a good lesson for anyone that sees that a hang glider has missed his/her hang check, you shouldn't just stand there and say to yourself that they missed there hang check then let them fly off, like this paraglider pilot did.
1. I get to a site with a couple of dozen other gliders setting up it is not my job to make a tally of everyone present and mark off people who've done hang checks.

2. My job to get my own glider and shit together to get safely off the ramp and render assistance to a number of gliders equal to the number of people I will require as crew for myself.

3. I one hundred percent guarantee you that no glider for whom I am crewing will get off the ramp without a hook-in check IMMEDIATELY prior.

4. If a pilot refuses to do a hook-in check I will walk away and report him for reckless and dangerous conduct and recommend that his rating be revoked.

5. The goddam idiot reporter said:
McLearn also watched Orders set up his Glider and says he missed a crucial safety check.
6. That is NOT what Nicole said. Nicole said:
I was there pretty much for the entire time that they showed up until the time they launched and I did not see a hang check performed.
I've watched thousands of gliders, who've undoubtedly performed goddam idiot hang checks, launch without having seen goddam idiot hang checks performed.
I say if you see it happen let someone know quickly then they can check it for them or you personally go up to the hang glider in question and help him/her do a hang check.
1. Yeah, that's the only possible way a another party can verify that someone is connected to a glider.
2. And afterwards - relax. The hang check has been performed and witnessed so everyone's good to go.
It really amazes me that this women has no problem telling authorities that she saw him never do a hang check and let him launch!
It really amazes me that with all the discussion about hang versus hook-in checks on the main forums that a club SAFETY Director can remain this freaking obtuse.
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Re: You are NEVER hooked in.

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.rmhpa.org/messageboard/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4258
HG accident in Vancouver
DonS - 2012/05/03 19:48:36 UTC
North Denver

Benzie is right when he said this is horrible. This is not the first time this has happened. Back in the day we would have twenty hang gliders on launch at Lookout all rushing to get set up and off for the morning cook. On one of these days a friend got set up and on launch first well before the rest of us. I stopped setting up when I saw this and started to walk over to launch. Before I got two steps he was already running off launch. Something wasn't right. He was hanging too low. Oh my god, he is hanging by his hands alone. My stomach knotted up as I realized what I was about to witness.

Pilot in command is something all pilots learn about on day one. The buck stops here. We learn that we alone are responsible for our flight and all that goes into it. We take pride in checking the weather, preflight of the wing, and last but most definitely not least making absolutely da?@ sure you are hooked in.

That said, we also looked after each other because nobody's perfect all the time. As a courtesy not a rule we would offer a hang check to a fellow pilot. This served two purposes. The pilot could verify that he is hanging at the correct height with all lines straight and double check that he is hooked in. The first hook in check the pilot already did himself. When launching without assistance, which was most of the time, you could not perform a hang check. You needed your own routine to make sure you were definitely hooked in before you launched. Some pilots took to hooking their harnesses in first and then climbed into them. Most of us made it part of a short but crucial prelaunch list/ritual.

We were young and because of pride there was the chance that a pilot might even take offense at the offer of a hang check. I would always visually check everyone else I could. If I saw anything that looked the slightest out of place I would convince them to do a hang check or at least double check things.

Tandem flying is a different animal. The passenger may not be a pilot and definitely is not in command. Their life is in the pilot's hands. There is specific training and certification for tandem pilots.

Oh yeah, the pilot left hanging by his hands realized he was not hooked in and too high to drop so he climbed into the control bar. With his feet on the control bar he made several turns to maneuver to the old LZ north of 58 and even flared for a perfect landing. Unfortunately this was the last flight I ever saw this guy take. He was a great guy and was well on his way to becoming a great pilot. I know it wasn't nerves or fear that stopped him as the end of the story shows he was one cool cat. I never got to ask him but I assumed he must have questioned himself as a responsible pilot. It was great he was unharmed but a shame we lost him as a pilot.
Benzie is right when he said this is horrible.
Let's not forget predictable and about due.
This is not the first time this has happened.
No shit.
Pilot in command is something all pilots learn about on day one.
That's not what they need to be learning on Day One. The ONLY thing that they need to learn on Day One is that the single quickest, easiest, and surest way for a foot launch glider diver to get himself killed is to assume he's hooked in and run off the ramp five seconds later.
The buck stops here.
Assuming he's been competently qualified to act as pilot in command - yes. But since nobody in hang gliding ever is you've gotta go up the chain of command from the instructor to the top and get heads on pikes every stop on the way.
We take pride in checking the weather, preflight of the wing, and last but most definitely not least making absolutely da?@ sure you are hooked in.
1. Avoid pride like the plague. The lower your self esteem the more likely you are to finish the day in one piece.

2. Thank you for the letter substitutions in the word "damn". You certainly wouldn't wanna get any members of the Rocky Mountain Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association upset in a discussion about a passenger getting dropped a thousand feet.

3. Let's make sure we're all on the same page with respect to the meaning of the word "last".

4. It's absolutely the single most important thing you will do in your entire life - every time you foot launch.

5. Make absolutely damn sure you are hooked in.

6. Also make absolutely damn sure you keep assuming you're not - all the way through the point at which it's too late to matter.
That said, we also looked after each other because nobody's perfect all the time.
If you really wanna be a friend to a fellow pilot assume that he's the biggest fuckup who ever tensioned a glider - every time he launches. And do the same for yourself.
As a courtesy not a rule we would offer a hang check to a fellow pilot.
One of those great intentions paving the road to hell.
This served two purposes.
1. Reassured the pilot and everyone within shouting distance of the ramp that the glider was good to go five minutes before it was ready to go.
2. Virtually guaranteed that at the instant of launch no one would be doing or looking for a hook-in check.
The pilot could verify that he is hanging at the correct height with all lines straight...
TRIVIAL DISTRACTING PREFLIGHT CRAP.
...and double check that he is hooked in.
The ABSOLUTE...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25550
Failure to hook in.
Christian Williams - 2011/10/25 03:59:58 UTC

What's more, I believe that all hooked-in checks prior to the last one before takeoff are a waste of time, not to say dangerous, because they build a sense of security which should not be built more than one instant before commitment to flight.
...LAST thing you want to be doing. LOOK at his suspension but DO NOT tell him he's good.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1167
The way it outa be
Steve Kinsley - 2005/10/04 14:04:25 UTC

One last attempt.

We have now rounded up all the usual suspects and promised renewed vigilance, nine page checklists, hang checks every six feet, etc. Bob Gillisse redux.

A hang check is part of preflighting your equipment. You do it in the setup area - not on the launch or the ramp. When you get in line you are hooked in and ready to go. No going down for a hang check cum hook-in check.
Focus on his suspension as launch becomes imminent and don't let him off the ramp without a fuckin' hook-in check IMMEDIATELY prior to launch.
The first hook in check the pilot already did himself.
He hasn't done a hook-in check and there's no such thing as a first one. THE hook-in check is ALWAYS and ONLY the first action in one's LAUNCH SEQUENCE.
When launching without assistance, which was most of the time, you could not perform a hang check.
You can't perform a hang check when foot launching - BY DEFINITION. You're not on your feet.
You needed your own routine to make sure you were definitely hooked in before you launched.
You need standardized training to establish a mindset that you are definitely NOT hooked in before you launch.
Some pilots took to hooking their harnesses in first and then climbed into them.
So that they could assume that from that point on for as long as it took to get to the front of the ramp they were good to go.
Most of us made it part of a short but crucial prelaunch list/ritual.
1. PRE launch is NEVER the critical period.
2. The critical period is the commitment to launch.
3. ALL of you assholes NEED to make it the first part of your launch sequence - EVERY TIME.
We were young and because of pride there was the chance that a pilot might even take offense at the offer of a hang check.
I'm old and I always take offense at the offer of a hang check. And I take HUGE offense when some asshole INSISTS that I do a hang check.

On the other hand I greatly appreciate anyone who's looking over my wing as I move towards the ramp, zeros in on my suspension in the final seconds before launch, and looks for me to do a hook-in check.
I would always visually check everyone else I could.
At what point do you satisfy yourself that the glider needs no further scrutiny and is good to go?
If I saw anything that looked the slightest out of place I would convince them to do a hang check or at least double check things.
1. Name one problem that you can identify with the pilot on his feet that he can better detect by doing a hang check.
2. Wanna tell us what you've found in those checks you've done which would've compromised that safety of the flight?
Tandem flying is a different animal.
Not so much that we need radically different regulations and procedures for dealing with this issue.
The passenger may not be a pilot and definitely is not in command.
I got news for ya. Only a very tiny minority of people who fly hang gliders - solo or tandem - are actual pilots.
Their life is in the pilot's hands.
EVERY TIME I get on a commercial flight as a PASSENGER I receive TRAINING regarding takeoff and emergency procedures - luggage stowing, seat belts, seat, tray, and bracing positions, emergency exits, emergency door operation, floatation device. Just how tough would it be to brief tandem hang glider passengers on proper hook-in check procedures and include them in the process?
There is specific training and certification for tandem pilots.
1. There is specific training and certification for solo pilots. But nobody ever bothers adhering to it.

2. You cite me ONE Standard Operating Procedure from ANY organization or agency which addresses this issue for tandem any better than it does for solo.
I know it wasn't nerves or fear that stopped him as the end of the story shows he was one cool cat.
Bullshit. He did what he needed to do to stay alive and had the strength to pull it off.
I never got to ask him but I assumed he must have questioned himself as a responsible pilot.
Good idea, bad timing. I always questioned MYSELF as a responsible pilot two seconds before every launch. The answer is always the same - "No way in hell, asshole - EVER." And I'm also dead certain that no way in hell I'm a cool enough cat to be able to climb up into my control frame. So at that point I always perform a little check to ensure that I won't be severely penalized for my chronic irresponsibility and cowardly geekiness.
It was great he was unharmed but a shame we lost him as a pilot.
You never HAD him as a pilot. REAL pilots don't EVER run off mountains under the assumption that they're hooked in. But, then again, he never had any REAL instructors or REAL pilot flying buddies to pick up the slack.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: You are NEVER hooked in.

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.rmhpa.org/messageboard/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4258
HG accident in Vancouver
Dave Stitz - 2012/05/15 18:17:51 UTC

It's unfortunate that this is my first post, but I've been a lurker for some time. Not really the thread to introduce myself and talk about my history with the sport, but I wanted to chime in and say that my first flight ever was with the pilot in this article. Two years ago I spent six weeks in Vancouver and on Canadian Thanksgiving I called up Jon and he took me up that day at the same site, on the same glider. When I stumbled upon the original article a couple weeks ago I had chills going down my spine.

We launched and were up for 45 minutes, flew with eagles, he let me control and gave me a lesson, and then he zoomed the glider around a bit and took us in for a smooth landing. We could have stayed up longer and I'm sure he would have loved to but I was getting nauseous. It was this flight that motivated me to go to Lookout this past August and earn my Hang 2.

We did a hang check that afternoon and from what I learned at LMFP he seemed to follow standard protocol.

When we were driving to launch I learned of his long history with the sport and the CC competitions he had taken part in. It's extremely unfortunate that this happened. He has recently stated that he will not be back in the sky again and I cannot fathom the level of remorse he feels.

My condolences go to the family of the deceased.
BJ Herring - 2012/05/16 20:14:54 UTC

Thanks for sharing that and welcome to the forum. Going to work on my Tandem certifications this weekend with Cowboy Up hg in Wyoming and this scenario has been hard to process.
Not really the thread to introduce myself and talk about my history with the sport...
I couldn't possibly think of a better one.
...and on Canadian Thanksgiving...
2010/10/11
When I stumbled upon the original article a couple weeks ago I had chills going down my spine.
Time machine. 2010/10/11, Woodside, ten seconds before launch. Are you gonna do anything different from what you did on the first take?
It was this flight that motivated me to go to Lookout this past August and earn my Hang 2.
You didn't earn your Hang Two - but that wasn't your fault.
We did a hang check that afternoon and from what I learned at LMFP he seemed to follow standard protocol.
Oh. From what you learned at LOOKOUT he SEEMED to follow STANDARD protocol.

1. Have you seen this "standard" protocol in print somewhere?

2. So you saw this guy following this "standard" protocol and one of his passengers died. Any chance this might not be the best protocol to follow?
It's extremely unfortunate that this happened.
It was INEVITABLE that this was gonna happen. We - in this neck of the woods - were overdue.
He has recently stated that he will not be back in the sky again and I cannot fathom the level of remorse he feels.
It's been twenty-three days since the disaster and I haven't heard him utter a single word in support of the hook-in check or any of the people who've people who've worked to get the message out there.
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Tad Eareckson
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Joined: 2010/11/25 03:48:55 UTC

Re: You are NEVER hooked in.

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18695
How could this accident happen?
Tad Eareckson - 2010/01/29 16:43:50 UTC

Universal "GO" signal for foot launched tow:
Pilot lifts the glider to its stopping point twice in a three second interval.
Implement that and the problem completely vanishes.
But we're not gonna do it 'cause it's not something we've ever done.
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=15239
Lift and Tug - identified my absent leg loop - thank you!
Cloud Hopper - 2010/01/29 17:19:02 UTC

As a safety check, I was taught to always lift the glider to the 'stop' before every foot launch, mountain or otherwise. Is this not universally taught anymore?
Tad Eareckson - 2010/01/29 21:42:31 UTC

It became a requirement for all launches of all USHGA ratings in May of 1981 but... This is hang gliding, everyone does whatever the hell he feels like, and it was never implemented on any measurable scale.

You can get an answer to your question just by rereading this thread. It's all about what did or didn't happen before the glider was moved into launch position and after the winch operator hit the gas. There's not a word about what was going on in the five seconds before the string went tight and the pilot started moving his feet. There never is in these discussions.

Who were your instructors? What are their positions on cloning?
Cloud Hopper - 2010/01/30 22:51:13 UTC

No certified instructors. Just some friendly 70's era pilots willing to pass-it-on to fellow wannabes. They had survived and they passed on their survival skills to others. When we got ready for certification, they'd tell us where to go.

I taught for about ten years and I taught all my students to lift the glider to tighten their hang straps as a check.

To this day we've never had a glider launch unhooked in our area (knock on aluminum).

The 'lift check' does seem to make sense as a possible solution to the problem.
Cloud Hopper posts on The Davis Show, his name is Brad Gryder, and he does Foothills Flight Park in North Carolina.

http://www.kitestrings.org/post1083.html#p1083
Tad Eareckson - 2011/12/29 02:34:25 UTC

NOOOOO!!! Don't give them the opportunity to start talking pounds. Hold them to Gs. (I kinda like Cloud Hopper so don't rough him up any more than necessary.)
Nobody - 2011/12/29 05:53:33 UTC

Me too, Tom Low (AKA Cloudhopper) and I have met at Funston.
This Cloudhopper is on The Jack Show and from California.
Tad Eareckson - 2011/12/29 13:46:30 UTC

Thanks. I've been wanting a name to go with that identity for a couple years. Has his head screwed on right or reasonably close on some of these important issues.
Most confusing - especially since both participated in the discussions about the static towing whipstall.
I've gone back and edited posts such that all quotes are attributed to the proper hopper.
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