Failure to hook in 6/29/12
What? A few too many standup landings?Paul Hurless - 2012/07/13 04:47:29Ok, I guess that kind of makes sense. I have two herniated lumbar disks so I understand the back problem thing.NMERider - 2012/07/13 04:21:46 UTC
Either I have to stand the glider on the keel in which case it will blow over backwards or I have to grab the uprights and force it up in a way that will injure my back.
Bullshit.I either bend over and grasp the downtubes down low and then lift the wing or I squat down to do it, depending on how my back feels at the time.
The putting the harness down first on a clean patch of ground would be nice. I wish the local sites here had a clean patch of ground. We have to deal with asphalt with soft tar leaching out of it at our main site and rocks, dirt, and sage brush at the rest of the sites.
I have been working on changing my personal preflight to hooking my harness into the glider first and then climbing into it (the aussie method). It feels awkward getting my size 12eee hiking boots throught the leg straps while I am ducking under the wing, but it's just something I need to get used to. I still do a walk through, lean, and look back, I always try to get a hang check if someone is available, and I lift the glider up at least a couple of times to feel the tug from the strap. I believe the more ways you do it, the better off you are instead of just relying on one method. Redundancy is a good thing.
1. You do a preflight and hook-in check. That has absolutely nothing to do with redundancy.HANG CHECK is part of the preflight, to verify that all the harness lines etc. are straight.
HOOK-IN CHECK is to verify connection to the glider five seconds before takeoff.
They are separate actions, neither interchangeable nor meant to replace one another. They are not two ways to do the same thing.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25550
Failure to hook in.
2. If you're using preflight checks to boost your confidence at launch - which you are - you're WORSE off.Christian Williams - 2011/10/25 03:59:58 UTC
What's more, I believe that all hooked-in checks prior to the last one before takeoff are a waste of time, not to say dangerous, because they build a sense of security which should not be built more than one instant before commitment to flight.
3. If the fuckin' hooking the harness to the glider first is convenient, do it. Otherwise, don't do it. You're not supposed to be using it to confirm or reassure yourself that you're hooked in anyway.
You want redundancy?NMERider - 2012/07/13 05:11:26 UTC
Now you're speaking my language. Not only do I like redundancy, but I also like redundancy and don't make me repeat myself. I forgot about the asphalt thing. There are a lot worse places than Sylmar to set up and connect. Did I mention I like redundancy?
- NEVER assume you're hooked in.
- ALWAYS assume you're NOT hooked in.
Sarcasm recognized. But I'm totally on board with something like that for people who contend that five minutes - or ten seconds - falls within the definition of "just prior".Rodger Hoyt - 2012/07/13 05:51:30 UTC
Makes me crazy to see guys walking around takeoff wearing their harnesses - deserves instant rating revocation!
Which is what?Rodger Hoyt - 2012/07/13 06:15:08 UTC
As usual, the long litany of sanctimonious replies whenever a failure to hook in is reported, as well as those who vehemently proclaim, "If you don't do it MY way, YOU WILL DIE!" The guys who really crack me up are those who fly one discipline, or one area, yet stubbornly insist that the so-called Aussie method is the panacea for everyone. How many of you have tried that for hooking in to an Atos with the nose tethered down in thirty mile per hour winds on a coastal bluff?
I've used my personal procedure with a 100-percent success rate for 35 years; I'm not about to change now. Maybe you "Aussie-types" should adopt MY method.
Christopher LeFay - 2012/07/13 09:34:39 UTC
I carry carpet and carpet remnants in the car. The carpet goes down, then the glider. Not precious, if it stays at launch, great - if not, no big loss. Of course, paraglider pilots regularly cart around enormous carpets; by comparison, a carpet for your harness (or wing tips) is incidental.
JJ Coté - 2012/07/13 11:32:45 UTC
I've done it with an Atos. I've never used any method for hooking in to a glider with the nose tethered down in thirty mile per hour winds on a coastal bluff, and probably never will. But it's not at all clear to me why it would be a problem.
Yeah?zamuro - 2012/07/13 12:06:15 UTCGood for you. I have never flown an Atos so you may be right here.I've used my personal procedure with a 100-percent success rate for 35 years; I'm not about to change now.
However, every hook-in failure that I know off involves people walking around with their harness on.
Add that one to your collection.Marc Fink - 1998/04/29 08:33
A line of pilots formed at launch. I had performed my usual pre-flight and self hook-in check before getting on launch behind the next pilot. Meanwhile, conditions went from questionably soarable to questionably launchable. The pilot in front of me waited for an ideal cycle to launch into, and didn't feel comfortable with the light conditions. After about tweny minutes or so of waiting I became uncomfortable and started trying to find a sit-down or kneeling position while still remaining hooked-in. Sometime during this process my radio slipped off my shoulder strap, and I had to readjust it.
Meaning you weren't ever doing hook-in checks.I myself was about to do it once so I decided that perhaps trying this Aussie thing was a good idea.
So I adopted it.
Of course you did.Steve Kinsley - 1998/05/01 01:16
So Marc thinks the Australian method will forever ban human error and stupidity. I suspect that eighty percent of the flying community would have unhooked to fix the radio problem instead of getting out of the harness entirely. It is easier. And there you are back in the soup.
"With EACH flight, demonstrates method of establishing that pilot is hooked in JUST PRIOR to launch." Emphasis in original. - USHGA Beginner through Advanced requirement.
I know of only three people who actually do this. I am one of them. I am sure there are more but not a lot more. Instead we appear to favor ever more complex (and irrelevant) hang checks or schemes like Marc advocates that possibly increase rather than decrease the risk of hook in failure.
OK, lemme add stuff you HAVEN'T heard about it here.Although the A. method may be less comfortably to use in some places most of the negatives that I have heard about it here are IMHO BS.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18695Rob Kells - 2005/12
"Knowing" that if you are in your harness you must be hooked in, means that if something comes up that causes you to unhook for any reason, you are actually in greater danger of thinking you are hooked in when you are not. This happened to a pilot who used the Oz Method for several years and then went to the training hill for some practice flights. He unhooked from the glider to carry it up the hill. At the top, sitting under the glider with his harness on, he picked up the glider and launched unhooked.
How could this accident happen?
William Olive - 2010/01/28 04:50:53 UTC
Phil Beck did this twice (or was that three times?) in a day at Hexham (Victoria) one time while foot launch aerotow testing gliders. Of course, with a swag of gliders to test fly, Phil would unclip from the glider he'd just landed, then clip into the next one to be tested.
Except, at least twice, he didn't clip in.
How 'bout Jockey's Ridge?I have used the Aussie method in many places (some very dusty ones) with no major issues. These places include: Torry, Laguna, Horse, Blossom Valley, Horshoe meadows, Marshall, Elsinore, Otay, Ellenville, etc.
Yeah. But not in the US if you're flying as a USHGA rated pilot. Comply with the fuckin' provisions of your fuckin' rating and do the goddam hook-in check.At the end use whatever method you like.
That way you can continue the family tradition of skipping hook-in checks, always assuming you're hooked in at launch, and always assuming all others - including/especially family members - are hooked in at launch.However if you were my family I would encourage/force you to use the Aussie method