I have been doing it Aussie style for about four years... Didn't know the name for it, but it was from an Aussie I learned it from.
From whom did you learn English from? Paul McCartney?
Once upon a time, I had hooked in... did a hang check and was walking up to launch when a hang-newbee wanted help. I unhooked assisted him and went back to my business of launching. The next thing I remembered was the basetube hitting my chin.
1. Yet another triumph of the buddy system.
2. Ya know the next thing I always remember? Lifting the glider up to try to get the basetube to hit my chin two seconds before I start running.
I was lucky in many ways. The glider had a slight left turn in it and landed about fifty feet to my left... softly. Embarrassed and wanting to forget what just took place, I looked the glider over; hooked in and relaunched.
So how come you didn't assume you were gonna do that just before you did it?
After that I started to do what is formally called the Aussie.
Bullshit. It's not formally anything. Find it in a set of regulations somewhere.
If anyone needs help, I unzip, get out and never... repeat! ... never unhook again.
There are pros and cons, but this is the method I have chosen and to each their own.
Again, from whom did you learn English from? Did you learn it well enough to read your rating requirements? Just kidding.
The website Relate2 sent is one mans story I agree with.
Oh good. I was so hoping to get your OPINION on that.
We are all human, but habitually different.
George Whitehill - 1981/05
The point I'm trying to make is that every pilot should make a SECOND check to be very certain of this integral part of every flight. In many flying situations a hang check is performed and then is followed by a time interval prior to actual launch. In this time interval the pilot may unconsciously unhook to adjust or check something and then forget to hook in again. This has happened many times!
If, just before committing to a launch, a second check is done EVERY TIME and this is made a HABIT, this tragic mistake could be eliminated. Habit is the key word here. This practice MUST be subconscious on the part of the pilot.
Name a human who benefits from a habit of assuming he's hooked in and running off the ramp without verifying that he is immediately prior.
I'm not a zealot of the Aussie/Hamster method, but why is this the case?
Just tell us you're not a practitioner of the Aussie/Hamster Method. The zealot thing goes without saying.
fly,surf,&ski - 2012/08/07 03:34:27 UTC
You have to carry the glider through a ROTOR zone to get it out to the box. If you lost the glider hooked in you would basically get blown over the back into the abyss.
Therefore SOP is to do a hang check in the set up area, unhook, then re-hook in when you are out on the box out of the rotor zone. And NO you cannot safely do another hang check on the box...
Why does it hafta be ALL visual? How often are people launching when there isn't a glassy smooth trade wind to float the glider up to the suspension stops?
Wilbur Brown - 2012/08/07 10:22:35 UTC
Northern California
I have flown off of Glacier point four times over the years and have stuck with my own protocol.
Which is WHAT? Any chance YOUR own protocol complies with the conditions of YOUR own rating?
Chris Valley - 2012/08/07 16:54:57 UTC
The monitor is supposed to ensure pilots walk out to launch unhooked, then hook in at launch and do an overall safety check.
Any chance this "overall safety check" complies with USHGA regulations? Just kidding.
When I'm monitoring, the Aussie Method doesn't "fly" so to speak...
One piece of real estate at a time.
JJ Coté - 2012/08/08 03:59:51 UTC
Mark Makapu'u off your list then too...
I already have, for that reason. I'm not questioning the policy in either case, by the way, but if a launch is difficult enough for such a policy to be required, I'll pass.
You're not allowed to. It is the Sacred Duty of all Aussie Methodists to uphold the Sacred Aussie Methodist Tenet that there is no launch on the planet at which the Aussie Method is unsafe or inappropriate.
Scenic though they may be, there are lots of other places to fly.
Much better places in fact. Places where one is not persecuted for practicing his religion and violating the regulations under which he is authorized to fly.
Los Angeles - the City of the Angels! The basin from which, decades ago, Saint Joseph of Windsports drove out the concept of the hook-in check to the extent that no one ever does one, looks for one, or has the slightest clue what one is.
fly,surf,&ski - 2012/08/08 04:29:55 UTC
In my book I call that good being on the safe side judgement...
Yes, and that's ultimately what this sport is all about - staying safe by not flying. This is why God gave us the Standard Aerotow Weak Link and the Ryan Voight Landing Clinic.
Come on out and fly with us at Torrey sometime. Very Scenic and the Aussie method is allowed...
That probably means Aussie Methodists are allowed. There goes the neighborhood.
Christopher LeFay - 2012/08/08 05:11:24 UTC
Humm.... this is sounding more and more like an argument of hook-in ideology: the right tool for the job doesn't equate to extreme difficulty. Most sites have features that must be accommodated to launch safely; at a few, prudence has dictated when to hook in. Essentially, the method for launching safe is being rejected - not the level of risk.
Exactly.
JJ Coté - 2012/08/09 00:43:55 UTC
Well... I don't think so. If I'm being told that it's so challenging to even walk the wing out to launch that you don't want to be hooked in because of the chance of bad things happening, then it may not be the place for me.
I can think of tons of places that may not be for you, JJ.
A bit under fourteen months ago that Russe Locke left the LZ and bit under a week ago that Dan Veneman left launch in choppers and you're not gonna fly Yosemite because you're terrified of moving your glider to launch position - since there's a no cost common sense protocol for moving your glider to launch position which yields an extra safety margin. And this despite the fact that there's never been an incident related to a glider being moved to launch position.
Awesome feel for threat prioritization you've got there, dude.
A bit reminiscent of advice I've heard about Ellenville (that probably applies at other sites as well), that if you need assistance to walk your wing to launch, then it's probably not a good day to fly.
That's OK, JJ. I never needed any confirmation of how prone you are to latch onto advice from other total assholes.
I might feel the same if there were a site that required wheels.
How very odd. And here I am trying to think of site at which a sane person wouldn't fly with wheels.
I have nothing against wheels, but if there's something that makes the site so tricky that everybody has to have them...
You mean like a landing field or runway?
...maybe I'll leave that site to other pilots.
Yeah JJ. And I only drive on roads where there's no possibility I'll need a seatbelt.
Do you also eschew sites so tricky that everyone is required to fly with a helmet and parachute?
Given any thought to crossing Henson off your list 'cause both the launch and LZ are so challenging that people have been killed at them when they didn't follow proper procedures?
Would it be safe for me to assume that as launch safety director you checked that each pilot was hooked in prior to launch?
Andy Long - 2012/08/22 01:13:32 UTC
Yes. The first thing I do is see if they are hooked in. Then I walk right up to them and fully inspect their hang loop and carabiner area. By hand usually. On Saturday, I found one pilot's carabiner turned sideways, with the hang loop right on the gate area. I told the pilot about it and fixed it.
Next, I ask them if they want a hang check. I also ask if they are in their leg loops. Then I give them an update as to what the conditions have been doing as I guide them up the ramp, holding on to a side wire.
I assess each pilot's mental state if I don't know them very well and give them feedback as to what the conditions have been doing over the last ten minutes. Then as we are standing on the launch mound together, I share with them what I would and would not launch in. If they seem a bit nervous, I tell them to not worry about the pilots in line behind them and take their time.
At St. John, the launch mound prevents the pilots in line from seeing what's going on at the launch ramp and down below. So I give the pilots in line updates as to what's happening as well. That way they know the thermal cycle sequence already before they even walk up to launch.
I was gonna call it none out of thirteen, that denominator 'cause what happens just prior to Launches Two and Three isn't recorded, but 3:29 guy is arguably a hit. He has big dorky wheels which indicate that he wants and knows how to best survive the other end of the flight so maybe he's feeling leg loops as he commits at the beginning.
Human error, not equipment failure, behind B.C. hang-gliding death, group says
Vancouver - Human error, not weather or faulty equipment, caused a woman to fall about 300 metres to her death during a hang-gliding trip in British Columbia's Fraser Valley this spring, says a investigation into the tragedy.
In its report into the April 28 accident that killed 27-year-old Lenami Godinez-Avila, the Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association of Canada also noted multiple distractions may have resulted in a breakdown of pre-launch procedures.
The report, released late Wednesday, didn't include statements from pilot William (Jon) Orders, who is facing an obstruction of justice charge for allegedly swallowing a memory card thought to be related to the incident.
Bruce Busby, vice-president of the association, said the organization's investigation came to the conclusions after examining the passenger's and pilot's harnesses, the glider and talking to witnesses.
"The investigation looking at the equipment determined there was no equipment failure," he said. "The harness, the glider and the passenger harness were all in excellent condition.
"Therefore, the only way that a passenger could become separated from the glider is if she was never attached to the glider."
The Canadian Press was unable to contact Orders' lawyer, Laird Cruickshank, for comment.
Busby said Orders is a member of the association but is currently suspended.
The accident took place on a day that was originally planned as a celebration. Godinez-Avila's boyfriend had purchased the hang-gliding adventure as part of a celebration of the couple's two year anniversary.
But according to the report, the passenger's harness was not connected to the glider during take off, and a "hang-check" was not performed, even though Orders had taken a tandem re-certification course just weeks before, the report noted.
"The investigation was unable to determine the reason for the omission of the critical pre-launch safety checks," it stated.
The report notes, though, that multiple distractions may have resulted in a breakdown of standard operating procedures.
Busby said Orders was celebrating his 50th birthday on the day of the tragedy and his daughter was watching.
He said Godinez-Avila and her boyfriend were also participating in flights at the time.
Following the accident, Orders issued a statement through Cruickshank, apologizing to Godinez-Avila's family and friends as well as the general public.
He also told reporters in May that he was under "overwhelming stress" after the accident.
Orders said his goal was to give Godinez-Avila an "amazing adventure and lots of smiles, but because he failed in such a major way," he has decided never to return to hang gliding.
Cruickshank said in May the incident was traumatic for his client and difficult to deal with.
Orders is a permanent resident of Canada and has surrendered two regular passports and an emergency passport -- for New Zealand, the U.K. and Australia -- all of which have expired, Cruishank said at the time.
Orders' next court appearance is scheduled for April 15, 2013, in Chilliwack, B.C.
Busby said the association now plans to release recommendations so that a similar tragedy doesn't happen again.
In fact, he said a tandem passenger has never died in Canada.
"Hang gliding and paragliding sports are really about smiles and laughter," said Busby. "It's not about tears and horrible stories.
"If we can encourage people to come on out and give it a try, we'll make sure that we keep them safe. They can enjoy the sport we are all so much in love with."
Human error, not weather or faulty equipment, caused a woman to fall about 300 metres to her death during a hang-gliding trip in British Columbia's Fraser Valley this spring, says a investigation into the tragedy.
NO!!! REALLY???
In its report into the April 28 accident...
The April 28 WHAT?
...that killed 27-year-old Lenami Godinez-Avila, the Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association of Canada also noted multiple distractions may have resulted in a breakdown of pre-launch procedures.
1. An unhooked launch NEVER has SHIT to do with distractions and breakdowns of pre-launch procedures.
2. Distractions and breakdowns of pre-launch procedures are ONE HUNDRED PERCENT *INEVITABLE*.
3. We can't afford to kill someone every time there's a distraction or breakdown of pre-launch procedures.
4. So the people who know what the fuck they're doing in this game use launch procedures which make distractions and breakdowns of pre-launch procedures ONE HUNDRED PERCENT *IRRELEVANT*.
5. But you fuckin' assholes absolutely refuse to incorporate that strategy into your regulations.
6. So go fuck yourselves.
The report, released late Wednesday...
Almost a whole week shy of four months subsequent to the incident. Exhaustive AND efficient! Great job, HPAC!
...didn't include statements from pilot William (Jon) Orders, who is facing an obstruction of justice charge for allegedly swallowing a memory card thought to be related to the incident.
That WOULD support the notion that human error may have had some role in this unforeseeable tragedy.
Speaking of obstruction...
I'm not the only person out there pushing the hook-in check message. And I know fer certain you motherfuckers have heard it (by way of Yours Truly) recently.
Tiffany Crawford - 2012/05/06
When asked about whether pilots should be doing a last minute verification check, Jason Warner, safety officer for the Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association of Canada, said "that might be a good idea."
So where is it?
Bruce Busby, vice-president of the association, said the organization's investigation came to the conclusions after examining the passenger's and pilot's harnesses, the glider and talking to witnesses.
Great job, HPAC!
Kelly Sinoski - 2012/05/03 14:56
The Vancouver Sun
HPAC has named Martin Henry, a master-rated hang-gliding pilot with more than thirty years experience and a past-president of HPAC, as the accident investigator for the association, Jason Warner, safety chairman, will assist.
Just no good substitute for having a master rated hang gliding pilot with more than thirty years experience (and a past-president of HPAC) as the accident investigator for the association when you really wanna do the job right and get to the bottom of things. Any chance we can borrow Martin for three or four months to get a good understanding of what went wrong with this one?
"The investigation looking at the equipment determined there was no equipment failure," he said. "The harness, the glider and the passenger harness were all in excellent condition.
"Therefore, the only way that a passenger could become separated from the glider is if she was never attached to the glider."
(Hey Zack... How many months did it take you to conclude that the only way that B could have become separated from the glider was if he was never attached to the glider?)
How might the day have gone if Jon had established a routine of himself and his passenger attempting to separate from the glider just prior to every launch?
But according to the report, the passenger's harness was not connected to the glider during take off, and a "hang-check" was not performed, even though Orders had taken a tandem re-certification course just weeks before, the report noted.
Yeah?
- So is training of the performance of a "hang check" a component of a tandem recertification course?
- How come I can't find shit concerning unhooked launch prevention procedures ANYWHERE on your fuckin' website?
- So if a fuckin' "hang check" had been performed back behind launch there'd have been no fuckin' way that glider coulda left the slope without both harnesses being connected?
"The investigation was unable to determine the reason for the omission of the critical pre-launch safety checks," it stated.
Was it able to determine the reason for the omission of the critical launch sequence safety check?
So I'm guessing none of the assholes on your crack investigative team has ever omitted a critical pre-launch safety check - like a sidewire load test, ferinstance?
If a fuckin' hang check is such a critical pre-launch safety check...
Rob Kells - 2005/12
Always lift the glider vertically and feel the tug on the leg straps when the harness mains go tight, just before you start your launch run. I always use this test.
My partners (Steve Pearson and Mike Meier) and I have over 25,000 hang glider flights between us and have managed (so far) to have hooked in every time. I also spoke with test pilots Ken Howells and Peter Swanson about their methods (another 5000 flights).
Not one of us regularly uses either of the two most popular methods outlined above.
...how come these Wills Wing guys aren't doing it and scoring much better batting averages than the assholes who are?
The report notes, though, that multiple distractions may have resulted in a breakdown of standard operating procedures.
WHAT *STANDARD* *OPERATING* *PROCEDURES*??? You assholes are always talking to the press about them but somehow there never seems to be any mention of what they actually are.
Following the accident, Orders issued a statement through Cruickshank, apologizing to Godinez-Avila's family and friends as well as the general public.
Wanna do something in the way of atonement, Jon? Do 0.1 percent of the work I have pushing the hook-in check message and attacking sleazy motherfuckers like Paul, Ryan, Davis, Rooney, Bruce, and Jason.
He also told reporters in May that he was under "overwhelming stress" after the accident.
And if only he had made a habit of stressing himself out over the potential consequences of an unhooked launch five seconds prior to EVERY takeoff...
Rob Kells - 2005/12
Each of us agrees that it is not a particular method, but rather the fear of launching unhooked that makes us diligent to be sure we are hooked in every time before starting the launch run.
...the way I did for a quarter century.
Orders said his goal was to give Godinez-Avila an "amazing adventure and lots of smiles, but because he failed in such a major way," he has decided never to return to hang gliding.
Like he really had a choice.
Cruickshank said in May the incident was traumatic for his client and difficult to deal with.
No shit.
Orders is a permanent resident of Canada and has surrendered two regular passports and an emergency passport -- for New Zealand, the U.K. and Australia -- all of which have expired, Cruishank said at the time.
Maybe New Zealand would be an option sometime down the road. They're pretty used to unhooked tandem launches down there. Hell, on 2006/02/21 Rooney launched without checking to see if he was hooked in and dove his passenger into the powerlines trying to save his own rotten ass and suffered no legal or social consequences whatsoever. Didn't even hafta fork over a dime for all the shock trauma, intensive care, rehabilitation stuff.
Shit happens, there really are no recipes that prevent it.. If there were, everybody would be following them already.
Busby said the association now plans to release recommendations so that a similar tragedy doesn't happen again.
1. Do you have any idea how many other total assholes before you have been releasing recommendations so that a similar tragedy doesn't happen again - every single time a similar tragedy happens again?
2. When are you planning on releasing these wonderful recommendations? How many times do you need to proofread them? We just had another near similar tragedy less than eight weeks ago when Greg Jones had a short dangling-from-the-downtubes flight from the Sylmar Towers launch. Shouldn't he have had the opportunity to see the results of all that intensive brainstorming?
3. Oh. You're going to release RECOMMENDATIONS. I am SO relieved. For one dreadful moment I was afraid you were gonna issue and enforce REGULATIONS.
4. So I guess you finally found...
Jason Warner - 2012/04/29
We're in the midst of making a standardized safety practice that everybody will agree on, now that it's been pushed to the forefront.
...something that everyone AGREED on (as opposed to something that'll actually work). So your recommendation will be for everybody to keep on doing whatever the fuck he feels like and expect better results.
5. Did you check with Bob Kuczewski to make sure there's nothing in these suggestions that Rick Masters or Sam Kellner would find objectionable?
CTV News - 2012/05/09
"In order to make the industry safe, we make sure that the instructors that are teaching and the pilots that are teaching are up to snuff and performing correctly," association vice-president Bruce Busby told CTV News.
A similar accident in 2003 (2003/03/29) claimed the life of Eleni Zeri in New Zealand, and pilot Steve Parsons was convicted of manslaughter. Parsons later moved to Vancouver Island and worked as a tandem instructor until the association pulled his certification.
"We found that he was operating outside of what our considered acceptable practices are, so we expelled him from the organization," Busby said.
6. So how come the association didn't plan to release recommendations in the spring of 2003 so that a similar tragedy to Elini's didn't happen again?
7. Here's the REGULATION (that nobody ever implements or enforces) that USHGA put on its books so that a similar tragedy doesn't happen again so that a similar tragedy wouldn't happen again over 31 years and a lot of death and destruction ago:
With each flight, demonstrates a method of establishing that the pilot is hooked in just prior to launch.
It actually works for people who make half an effort to actually do it.
So is something like that gonna appear as the mildest suggestion anywhere in your recommendations? Just kidding.
In fact, he said a tandem passenger has never died in Canada.
1. BULLSHIT.
Kelly Sinoski - 2012/05/03 14:56
The Vancouver Sun
There have been other tragedies involving tandem hang-gliding flights.
In 2002, a pilot and student were being towed by an ultralight on a tandem training flight near Fort Langley when the tow line snapped and the glider spiralled out of control.
William Allen Woloshyniuk, 40, of Coquitlam and his student, Victor Douglas Cox, also 40, of Cumberland on Vancouver Island, both fell 300 metres, struck a tree and died.
Altogether, hang-gliding accidents across Canada between 2002 and 2012 have resulted in two serious injuries and five fatalities, including the three in B.C.
There were two other B.C. fatalities before 2002. Two years earlier, John Ames, a hang-gliding student, had a heart attack in the air. That crash, at the Fort Langley sea plane base, killed Ames and instructor Raymond Smith.
Oh. Those were STUDENTS - not PASSENGERS. I DO apologize.
2. Fuck CANADA, fuck TANDEM, and fuck YOU.
If one of these happens in Burundi - tandem or solo - fifteen years ago using the same procedures it CAN and WILL happen in fucking Canada. So learn what happened in Burundi fifteen years ago fifteen years ago and implement procedures to prevent it from happening in fucking Canada. You don't wait until it happened in fucking Canada last weekend and then start pretending you're gonna do something that's actually gonna make a difference.
3. You are, for all intents and purposes, lying to the public by implying that because of your wonderful administration of the sport north of the 49th parallel y'all don't have any problems worth mentioning - other than this freak anomaly precipitated by an unusually irresponsible and negligent tandem pilot who somehow managed to slip through the cracks.
"Hang gliding and paragliding sports are really about smiles and laughter," said Busby.
Yeah, keep smiling and laughing, asshole.
"It's not about tears and horrible stories.
Nah. And you've only had ONE other fatal impact within a 150 mile radius and 44 day period following Lenami's. And Eric Thorstenson didn't get fucked up too bad 132 miles to the southeast at Chelan Butte 23 days after Michael Wood bought it landing at Lumby.
"If we can encourage people to come on out and give it a try, we'll make sure that we keep them safe.
Liar. You don't have a fuckin' clue how to begin keeping people safe.
And if you did the last thing you'd do would be to promise that you'll keep them safe.
And if you motherfuckers had instituted tandem protocols such that passengers - like Lenami and her boyfriend - would be advised of this age old and rather common cause of foot launch catastrophes and involved them as elements of the checking procedure it's a real good bet that this one would never have happened.
They can enjoy the sport we are all so much in love with."
Zack C - 2012/06/02 02:20:45 UTC
I just cannot fathom how our sport can be so screwed up.
It's in desperate need of a lot fewer people in bed with it and a lot more people machine gunning out generous and appropriate doses of tough love.
I've never used a single suspension harness, but I've been told that it's damn near impossible to launch with a tight hang strap (in light wind) when using one. Even when it's smooth and straight in (or not) it's the guys in the race type harnesses that seem to struggle most on launch.
I don't know how difficult it would be for someone that can easily lift and tug using a cocoon or pod to do the same with a race harness.
When I see video of someone launching in a race harness I wonder if it's even possible for them to lift until they feel their leg loops.
As for the video above, IF Andy is checking that those guys are hooked in just prior to launch does that not satisfy USHPA's hook in check requirement?
