http://OzReport.com/9.009
2005 Worlds
Davis Straub - 2005/01/11
Morose in the headquarters - an editorial (and editorial reconsidered).
First the news.
On Monday, it was announced that the day was canceled as the first and only business of the regular team leaders meeting at 10 AM. A safety review meeting for the team leaders was scheduled for 1 PM and a pilots' safety review for 4 PM.
I asked Paul Rundell why the day was canceled. He said that the primary reason was out of respect for the dead pilot and the secondary reason was to go over the safety issues, in particular pilots' use of non-weaklinks, as apparently was the case with Robin.
Yeah guys, whenever somebody slams in on a perfectly intact glider still on tow you should always form a committee to determine the cause of his weak link not breaking.
Hell, he was using a WALLABY release and if you check WALLABY's website they say:
If you fail to maintain the correct tow position (centered, with the wheels of the tug on the horizon), the weak link will break before you can get into too much trouble.
- He failed to maintain the correct tow position (centered, with the wheels of the tug on the horizon).
- The weak link DIDN'T break before he got into too much trouble.
- Therefore he was not using an appropriate weak link.
These fucking shitheads use such total crap for releases that they can't even conceive of one being successfully used for an emergency separation. The entire mindset is based on the strategy of maintaining a death grip on the basetube and praying for the weak link to blow before you run out of recovery room.
So why isn't the committee looking into the issue of the tug drivers using non weak links, as apparently was the case with Bobby?
Yesterday, before we launched, Paul had made sure that the team leaders knew that pilots should be using weaklinks.
Robin WAS using a weak link. It's what bound up on his piece of shit Wallaby Release:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8318769461/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8318781297/
If he HADN'T been using a fucking weak link and had just hooked up to the eye at the end of the bridle he'd have been off as soon as he got to the lever. Might well still have ended up dead but at least he'd have spared us having to listen to this totally moronic discussion.
He also instructed the ground support crews to check each pilot to make sure that they had a weak link. I was checked.
Yeah. And they didn't even give a rat's ass about that crap you have on your shoulders.
The editorial.
It appears to me that the organizers were aware of the problem of pilots making a tradeoff regarding their safety and perhaps ability to get into the air, and were, in addition to cautioning pilots, engaged in an active program of refusing to launch people who were not using weaklinks before Robin's accident.
WHAT *TRADEOFF* - SHITHEAD? You:
- use a:
-- release that lets you INSTANTLY release without loss of control when you want to release.
-- weak link to blow when the tension starts getting high enough to bend something and not a whole helluva lot before.
- don't EVER:
-- get into a situation in which you NEED it to blow
-- expect it to:
--- blow
--- save your useless stupid ass
Robin had a strong link...
Define "STRONG LINK".
- Was it in excess of the range mandated by the FAA?
- Do we get to hear anything about Gs?
...and apparently he was either not checked thoroughly enough (it is hard to tell how strong some weaklinks are) or allowed to launch with it.
- Yeah, it would've been perfectly OK to get into line with that piece of shit Wallaby "release" which has a massive and well documented failure rate even before you use the insane configuration that Robin - and, undoubtedly, others - were using, as long as he was using the approved altruistic loop of fishing line along with it.
- But you really don't have to worry about telling how heavy some gliders are 'cause we've got these really wonderful lockout preventers that work equally well for everybody.
As I stated yesterday, the launch crew repeatedly asked Robin to take a cart in the light wind and cross wind conditions. He refused to. He was making his own choices on the tradeoffs re weaklinks and carts. Those turned out to be bad choices.
He refused a dangerous cart and a weak link which would have been at or off the bottom end of the FAA's legal range. But what most got him killed was a piece of shit release which - by no reasonable interpretation of USHGA regulations - even if it were being used in a two point configuration passes muster. It jammed, and it's not even being mentioned yet.
I had spoken a few times with Robin at Deniliquin and I can well imagine that he would not have listened to others who were concerned about his safety.
Especially when the others are all totally incompetent bozos - as is being made QUITE apparent in this reporting.
I too have been known to be pig headed.
Just as there's a difference between two and three point there's a difference between shit and pig headed.
That said, he was a well respected pilot and well liked by his team mates.
Super. If he was such a well respected pilot why did he get into line with that Wallaby crap on his glider?
On Monday...
Day Three, which is gonna get cut short by Robin's death.
...I asked that launch monitors carefully examine the carts when they first begin rolling to catch any signs of castering and immediately pull any carts out of service that exhibit this behavior.
Yeah, it's always a great idea for these tests to be run with gliders on them during world competition rounds. You sure wouldn't wanna waste time doing simulations under controlled conditions to detect the sorts of problems that could get somebody's...
http://ozreport.com/pub/images/fingerlakesaccident2.jpg
http://ozreport.com/pub/images/fingerlakesaccident3.jpg
...freakin' neck broken.
Apparently, the cart I used yesterday has a bad reputation and without being aware of that I chose it from among four rather sad looking carts stationed at line four.
But not bad enough to get it pulled. Not even bad enough to get a red sticker on it. And there are supposed to be people concerned about anyone's safety - including their own - in this crowd?
I personally can't see a good reason to cancel today's task.
What's the maximum number of competitors you'd allow to be killed because of systemwide defects in the operation before you'd start seeing a reason to scrub and evaluate what you're doing?
Maybe you could use the downtime to do stability tests on the dollies, some research on the difference between a weak link and a release, and some looking into release technologies that don't totally suck. Just kidding.
There is nothing we can do for the dead pilot.
Or the next pilots that you motherfuckers are gonna mangle and kill by continuing to send them up on shit aerotow equipment: Holly Korzilius, Jeremiah Thompson, Roy Messing, Steve Elliot, and Lois Preston.
Since the safety information that we are all aware of could have been communicated directly to the team leaders at today's meeting and the launch monitor's could have very vigorously enforced the weaklink rules today (Monday)...
Yeah, the weak link rules. Still not a single mention of the release - let alone any release rules.
...there was no need to dwell unduly on the unpleasant nature of what had happened.
REAL pilots - and people who make real positive contributions to this sport - do little BUT dwell unduly on the unpleasant natures of these clusterfucks and strategies for preventing reruns.
It just makes the Worlds and other category 1 competitions less attractive and less likely to be attended if we get caught up in this downward spiral of bad feelings.
Yeah Davis. You really oughta get some good lipstick on those pigs of yours. You certainly wouldn't want any of your little bloodbaths to start looking unattractive.
There is nothing much worse than a bunch of hang glider pilots sitting around on a flyable day questioning the meaning of their lives.
Yeah Davis. You should probably teach them the techniques you used to totally eradicate any vestiges of introspection.
I don't wish to show any disrespect to the members of Robin's family, to his friends or to his team mates.
Of course not, Davis. You're always MUCH too busy showing disrespect to the people working on the equipment to prevent these incidents.
Robin is obviously a beloved member of the Norwegian team. I'm sure that they feel bad.
- They should. They did NOTHING to prevent him from going up on that crap.
- Fuck the Norwegian team.
- Name one goddam thing any of those assholes has done to try to prevent a rerun.
http://www.paraglidingforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=28697
Weak links why do we use them. in paragliding.
Fredrik Sandquist - 2010/01/18 18:31:29 UTC
Trondheim
The hg fatality at Hay. The to strong weak link was one of the reason for the fatality according to the official report if I remember correctly. I am sure that you don't see any problem with that "weak" link but I can definitely not see how anything could have been worse with a weaker weak link. There where obviously also other causes to the accident but this doesn't matter in regard to your question.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13132
Unhooked Death Again - Change our Methods Now?
Fredrik Sandquist - 2009/01/30 08:52:40 UTC
The report I have is in Norwegian so I doubt you understand it. There are also an Australian report but I don't know if it is available (and the Norwegian report is neither freely available so I am not going to link to it).
- Allegedly according to their alleged report that no one's allowed to see (reminds me quite a bit of the Terry Mason fatality report) Robin died at least in part because his too strong weak link failed to recognize his plight in time to release him at a survivable altitude.
I've gone through this many times in previous competitions and I do have some feel for what people are feeling.
Not, of course, because you have any actual compassion for the person who slams in, but because you can recognize the emotional shifts in the people who do. VERY telling statement, Davis.
What really needs to be focused on is what can we do now to make it as safe as possible for other pilots who are still with us.
Just keep using the shit equipment you always have and blaming the crashes on strong links whenever you can and pilot incompetence when you can't. You'll be fine.
We need to be sure the carts aren't castering. We need to be sure that we are launching directly into the wind.
Davis Straub. Always thinking outside of the box.
We need to be sure that we are using adequate weak links, not too strong, not too weak.
Dr. Trisa Tilletti - 2012/06
We want our weak links to break as early as possible in lockout situations, but be strong and reliable enough to avoid frequent weak link breaks from turbulence. It is the same expectation of performance that we have for the weak links we use for towing sailplanes.
Great minds...
These are relatively easy fixes.
Of course they are, Davis. Just put everybody up on a loop of 130 pound Greenspot. Always dumps you off when you need to be dumped off, never dumps you off when you don't wanna be dumped off.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
Jim Rooney - 2011/08/26 08:24:31 UTC
Thought I already answered that one... instead of quoting myself (have a look back if you don't believe me), I'll just reiterate it.
I don't advocate anything.
I use what we use at the flight parks. It's time tested and proven... and works a hell of a lot better than all the other bullshit I've seen out there.
130lb greenspot (greenspun?) cortland fishing line.
In stock at Quest, Highland, Eastern Shore, Kitty Hawk Kites, Florida Ridge, and I'm pretty sure Wallaby, Lookout and Morningside.
Not sure what Tracy up at Cloud Nine uses, but I'll put bets on the same.
Did I miss any?
Is it clear what I mean by "We"?
I didn't make the system up.
And I'm not so arrogant to think that my precious little ideas are going to magically revolutionise the industry.
There are far smarter people than me working this out.
I know, I've worked with them.
(Bobby's a fucking genius when it comes to this shit... for example.)
I think that we can best respect Robin and his family best by making sure that other families don't have to suffer through the same feelings.
And with people of your caliber working on the issues, I think it's safe to say that aerotow launch crashes are now things of the past.
The meet organizers have previously stated that it is up to the pilots to provide their own weaklinks.
That's one issue I feel pretty confident in saying...
http://ozreport.com/12.081
Weaklinks - the HGFA rules
Davis Straub - 2008/04/22 14:47:00 UTC
Here is the requirement from the 2007 Worlds local rules (which I wrote) for weaklinks:
Pilots must use weaklinks provided by the meet organizers and in a manner approved by the meet organizers. All weaklinks will be checked and use of inappropriate weaklinks will require the pilot to go to the end of the launch line to change the weaklink.
Weaklinks will consist of a single loop of Cortland 130 lb Greenspot braided Dacron Tolling line and should be placed at one end of a shoulder bridle.
At the 2008 Forbes Flatlands Greenspot for the first time was used as the standard weaklink material (thanks in large part to the efforts of Bobby Bailey). We applaud these efforts to improve the safety of aerotowing by using a better weaklink material.
... will soon be dealt with. (Bobby's a fucking genius when it comes to this shit.)
The launch monitors do have weaklinks (brick layers line - the standard in Oz that can be used with 3,4,5, or 6 lines) but they are instructed only to use this in a situation where the pilot is ready to go and has no weaklink.
It's really good to have standards...
http://ozreport.com/12.081
Weaklinks - the HGFA rules
Davis Straub - 2008/04/22 14:47:00 UTC
From section 3.4 of the 1999 Hang Gliding Federation of Australia Towing Manual:
Recommended breaking load of a weak link is 1g. - i.e. the combined weight of pilot, harness and glider (dependent on pilot weight - usually approximately 90 to 100 kg for solo operations; or approximately 175 kg for tandem operations).
...and recommendations that everyone can agree on to keep us safe.
But, if it truly the case that pilots are responsible for their own weaklinks, then why are we canceling the day to deal with this issue?
To give the impression that you douchebags are actually doing something about this issue. If you were to do anything really useful you'd hafta scrub the release 'cause you'd never be able to get all the gliders outfitted with releases that didn't stink on ice in time.
It seems to mean that there is some shared responsibility. We are all affected because one pilot made some bad choices.
All you fucking assholes were making bad choices. Damn near all the time you get away with them, occasionally you don't.
This makes it a group responsibility, if we want to continue flying.
Fuck your group.
Editorial Reconsidered.
First, the cu's are beautiful and high today on this light wind day. Yesterday they were nice, but not as nice as today. These are the first cu's we've seen since the first day of the Deniliquin meet.
I have just participated in a two hour meetings with the team leaders and the meet officials.
The team leaders and meet officials on whose watch this idiot fatality got off the ground. Just the people you really want presiding over an overhaul.
I must say that the meet officials have used their time very very wisely this morning to make major changes in the running of the Worlds in order to enhance safety.
Very very wisely? Kinda like...
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=16384
Tow Release Malfunction
Jim Rooney - 2010/03/26 20:54:43 UTC
Bent pin releases are indeed very very reliable.
...very very reliable bent pin releases?
I have never seen this happen before and I applaud their efforts and the realization of those efforts.
Doesn't seem like you ever tire...
At the 2008 Forbes Flatlands Greenspot for the first time was used as the standard weaklink material (thanks in large part to the efforts of Bobby Bailey). We applaud these efforts to improve the safety of aerotowing by using a better weaklink material.
...of applauding people's efforts, Davis.
Funny, though, that I never hear you applauding anyone's actual ACCOMPLISHMENTS. Must be 'cause there aren't any that ever emerge from within your little mutual admiration society.
Realizing the problem with weaklinks, we will now all be required to fly with a weaklink system (perhaps in addition to our own) that will be supplied by the meet organizers. It will be set for 85 to 90 KG. It will be placed between our system and the tow line.
I applaud these efforts too, Davis.
Limit everybody's maximum tow tension to 198 pounds - plus or minus three percent. Knocks every glider with a maximum certified operating weight of over 247 pounds off the bottom of the FAA's legal weak link range BUT...
Small price to pay to be sure that we are using adequate weak links, not too strong, not too weak.
The weak link system with consist of a ring, the weaklink material and a snap hook to attach to the line. We will be given a fresh weaklink every time and release from the weaklink.
Pure genius.
So why don't you just use fucking Tost weak links - like sailplanes have been doing since the beginning of time?
http://ozreport.com/9.009
2005 Worlds
Davis Straub - 2005/01/11
Rohan Holtkamp did an analysis of the accident, in particular the bridle and weaklink, which never broke.
How 'bout the release mechanism - which never released? Just kidding.
We already had a canceled day and a bunch of morose pilots hanging around the airport upset that someone had died towing.
The weaklink was caught on the release mechanism, a standard spinnaker release found on bridle systems used at Lookout Mountain, Moyes, Wallaby Ranch, and Quest Air.
Well, if Lockout, Moyes, Wallaby, and Quest are all using a standard spinnaker release it must be standard.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/skysailingtowing/message/4049
Towing errata
Bill Bryden - 2004/04/01 16:20:18 UTC
Some aerotow releases, including a few models from prominent schools, have had problems releasing under high tensions. You must VERIFY through tests that a release will work for the tensions that could possibly be encountered. You better figure at least three hundred pounds to be modestly confident.
Maybe eight to ten years ago I got several comments from people saying a popular aerotow release (with a bicycle type brake lever) would fail to release at higher tensions. I called and talked to the producer sharing the people's experiences and concerns. I inquired to what tension their releases were tested but he refused to say, just aggressively stated they never had any problems with their releases, they were fine, goodbye, click. Another person tested one and found it started getting really hard to actuate in the range of only eighty to a hundred pounds as I vaguely recall. I noticed they did modify their design but I don't know if they ever really did any engineering tests on it. You should test the release yourself or have someone you trust do it. There is only one aerotow release manufacturer whose product I'd have reasonable confidence in without verifying it myself, the Wallaby release is not it.
And ya just can't argue against standards. Especially when you've got huge track records to back them up.
The release clamp has an arm that is thicker at the release point and this held onto the weaklink which consisted of multiple loops of thick line.
Well... What are ya gonna do? Standards are standards - and this one has a huge track record.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22308
Better mouse trap(release)?
Jim Rooney - 2010/12/16 18:47:05 UTC
A few years ago, I started refusing to tow people with home made gear.
I like the idea of improving gear, but the lack of appreciation for the world they were stepping into didn't sit with me.
For example... flying with the new gear in mid day conditions?
Are you kidding me????
Approach it for what it is... completely untested and very experimental gear which will likely fail in new and unforseen ways as it tries it's damndest to kill you... and then we can talk.
You always wanna use gear that will fail in old and easily foreseeable ways to kill you rather than risk flying with completely untested and very experimental gear virtually no track record whatsoever.
This type of release mechanism has been banned (at least for a short while)...
Yeah, a short while. Give it a couple of days until the danger of using a release mechanism with a reverse tapered gate will pass. And DO get that strong link situation under control.
...from the Worlds at Hay.
But everybody else... Don't worry - keep on using it. This thing only kills people at the Worlds at Hay. And just during a critical period of three or four days.
When the weaklink didn't break and after the release didn't work even though it was open, the 5 mm bridle line holding the release broke and going to the pilot's shoulders and then the 1.5 mil cable that opens the release broke.
This is so poorly written and nonsensical...
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25015
Zippy pounds in
Davis Straub - 2011/09/02 18:37:09 UTC
Concussions are in fact very serious and have life long effects. The last time I was knocked out what in 9th grade football. I have felt the effects of that ever since. It changes your wiring.
...that it's not worth trying to derive anything from it.
There's NO EXCUSE for having anything anywhere in a towing system that blows before a weak link and - regardless of how things were configured on Robin's end or the weak link Bobby was using we know that the tow line tension can never get much over four hundred pounds 'cause of idiot Bobby's idiot tow mast breakaway.
Bobby released the tow line approximately when the pilot's wing tip hit the ground, which is when Rohan felt the cable on the release mechanism broke.
Who gives a rat's ass? Robin's fate was sealed a long time before impact.
Most pilots here are towing off their shoulders. Those pilots who are also towing off the keel are now required to have a release at the keel if they have a bridle release at their shoulders requiring the bridle line to slip through the (tow ring) that connects to the rope connecting to the tug. If you don't have a release at the keel, then you will not be allowed to tow with this system.
In fucking credible. It's amazing these assholes hadn't killed a half dozen competitors by Day Three.
The tow paddock setup is being rearranged to allow for easier towing if the wind is off to the side of the originally forecast direction. The car towers will be moved further away from the aerotowing setup. The launch area will be moved up 200 meters in front of the setup area. Tugs will tow into the wind.
No more releasing from the bottom UNLESS you have a backup release at the top, launching gliders INTO the wind...
Lemme write these down so's I TOO will be able to run a safe tow meet.
They towed into the wind on the first two days because the winds were so strong that they had to. They were towing at ninety degrees to the wind yesterday, but the wind was quite light.
What the hell, it only proved to be an issue on one flight.
The dollies continue to be a big problem. They have been gathered up from all sorts of resources...
Resources. Right.
here in Australia and pilots are often not happy with their dollies. The meet organizers will be putting bungees on the wheels to hopefully reduce their castering. Gerolf is asking for tie rods.
Great time to be doing design and engineering work.
There are many other perceived or real problems with the dollies, including disagreements about proper launch technique (push out, lock elbows, or pull in). There will now be extra help at the initial roll out to keep the weaker...
Safer.
...weaklinks from breaking immediately.
Nah Davis. You don't want those things breaking until you get up to around thirty feet or so.
The ground is quite rough (something that isn't a problem in Florida or Texas).
(So they can use much safer weak links at those venues.)
The rope length will be increased from 60 meters to 90 meters and from spectra to poly to increase the stretch in the rope and help out with the new weaker weak links. This will also decrease the tow angles and decrease the forces on the pilot who's out of whack.
- I'm really liking this strategy, Davis. Use Lauren Links...
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24534
It's a wrap
Lauren Tjaden - 2011/08/01 02:01:06 UTC
Eminently Qualified Tandem Pilot
For whomever asked about the function of a weak link, it is to release the glider and plane from each other when the tow forces become greater than desirable -- whether that is due to a lockout or a malfunction of equipment or whatever. This can save a glider, a tow pilot, or more often, a hang glider pilot who does not get off of tow when he or she gets too far out of whack.
...to keep the hang glider pilot from getting too far out of whack then use long stretchy towlines to keep the Lauren Links from blowing when the hang glider pilot gets too far out of whack.
- So you're saying that the short towline presents more danger to the glider. So why were you towing Robin (and everyone else) on short towlines?
Many team leaders wanted an ambulance in the tow paddock (which wouldn't have helped yesterday), but the Australian government will not allow this. I have suggested a refrigerator or cooler with liquid for transfusions and oxygen for the paramedic who is assigned to the field.
Have you suggested adopting technologies for tow equipment that doesn't stink on ice to minimize the need for ambulances, refrigerators, transfusions, oxygen, and paramedics? Just kidding.
These are just some of the many changes that have been made based on input from pilots, dolly masters, tug pilots, the safety committee, and CIVL officials. Rohan was very focused on the accident investigation and making specific changes.
Useless fucking douchebags.
Joerg took this photo of Steve Elkins over Hay on Sunday.
But nobody could be bothered to take any photos of Robin's wreckage so we'd have a fucking clue what was going on back there.
Many pilots were affected by Robin's death and expressed their sympathy on Monday evening to his friends, family and team members in a remembrance gathering where he perished in the tow paddock. Paul Rundell has asked us to incorporate the changes that we have made in our practices and look forward to a safe competition starting again tomorrow.
Bullshit.
