You are NEVER hooked in.

General discussion about the sport of hang gliding
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: You are NEVER hooked in.

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=26996
Critique my radial ramp launch
Mike (screech) - 2012/09/02 18:19:48 UTC

RE: Ryan's point about the prone vs upright position:
Fuck Ryan.
]Instead of making sure my slider (have a CG-1000 type pod) is up by raising my wing (although I also try to get my hang strap as taught as possible before running on launch so the wing is already directly connected to my weight)...
To improve the efficiency of your launch, of course. Absolutely nothing to do with verifying that you're hooked in at the moment of commitment.
...when I get a hang check before launch, I first have someone hold the nose and "sit", so to speak, into the harness leg straps to make sure I go as far down as possible and as such that the slider goes as far up as possible, before then lying down and checking everything else.
Yeah, I just love it when people start talking about preflight checks of "everything else" in discussions about unhooked launches. Do make sure you've got your clearance checked, backup loop engaged, carabiner locked, and helmet buckled. So many people have died because of deficiencies in those departments.
That said, I should add that my slider doesn't move when I don't move it myself -- at least not that I have noticed in a year.

Obviously, to each his own, as long as whatever you do ensures safety and repeatability.
Yeah, OBVIOUSLY.

Just like it says in the regulation:
To each his own, as long as whatever you do ensures safety and repeatability.
Just like it says in the FAA aerotowing regulations regarding the front end weak link:
To each his own, as long as whatever you do ensures safety and repeatability.
Just like it says in the FAA aerotowing regulations regarding the minimum rating of the back end weak link:
Use whatever your tug driver tells you will meet his expectation of breaking as early as possible in lockout situations, but being strong and reliable enough to avoid frequent breaks from turbulence - as long as it's a single loop of 130 pound Greenspot braided Dacron trolling line.
Just like the signs at the beginning of the school zones say:
Drive whatever speed you like, as long as you don't hit any ten-year-olds.
Lemme tell ya sumpin'...

The ONLY thing that ensures safety and repeatability is a verification of hook-in status within five seconds of EVERY launch. You:

- show me:

-- the fuckin' Aussie Method - I'll show you people getting flipped approaching launches and snatched up by dust devils as well as launching unhooked

-- assholes doing what assholes like Ryan and his father, Matt, and Steve Wendt are teaching and advocating, what assholes like Keith and kermit are doing in their stupid videos - I can stack the bodies like cordwood

-- the to-each-his-own philosophy of aviation I'll show you Bob Kuczewski, Sam Kellner, and Terry Mason

- cite ONE incident EVER ANYWHERE of ANYONE who routinely complied with the fuckin' regulation to the best of his abilities launching unhooked

FUCK to each his own. We have REGULATIONS to protect stupid people from themselves, passengers from stupid people, and people out for fun days of flying from having to run down mountainsides with the faintest of hopes that their friends might still have pulses.

1. FOLLOW THE FUCKING REGULATION.
2. STOP INCITING OTHER JACK SHOW ASSHOLES TO VIOLATE IT.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: You are NEVER hooked in.

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://vimeo.com/48762486


If we collect enough of these videos over a long enough period eventually we're gonna have a good record on how our regular Joe at the time became another statistic and another major topic for the usual Jack and Davis Show debates between the hang checkers and Aussie Methodists.

Won't change much of anything, of course, but it will be kinda fun.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: You are NEVER hooked in.

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.flyhigh.com/

High Perspective, Inc.
Michael Robertson
1150 Highway 7, RR #1
Locust Hill, Ontario
L0H 1J0

Testimonials
It has been a long time since I have flown solo... kids, money, career, life in general seems to get in the way of "me". But not the past couple of weeks. I have taken some time for "me" and loved every second of it.

The moments before I took, my reintroduction to this fantastic sport.. After the hang check, getting comfortable holding the glider, "tension please" and moments before those final words... "Clear and Launch... Clear and Launch" I have to admit to feeling a bit nervous, it had been years but it all came rushing back in a flash. I as you say "unlearned that I couldn't fly" and am now loving the fact that I could the whole time.

Thanks Michael... I needed that.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: You are NEVER hooked in.

Post by Tad Eareckson »

In the 1981/05 issue of Hang Gliding magazine USHGA announces the implementation of the requirement of hook-in check - JUST PRIOR TO LAUNCH - for all flights for all ratings and specifies the intent and specifically excludes the fuckin' hang check as a compliant procedure.

Like damn near everyone else and his dog, fuckin' Dennis Pagen totally ignores the regulation in his personal flying and observing of others and the instructor certification clinics he conducts - including mine (1989/06/02-04).

And the motherfucker also totally ignores from Doug Hildreth during his 1981 to 1994 reign as USHGA Accident Review Committee Chairman with each regularly scheduled fatality report PLEA after PLEA after PLEA after PLEA after PLEA to...
Doug Hildreth - 1990/03

The instructional programs to assure hook-in within fifteen seconds of launch have apparently not caught up with the masses.
...do the fuckin' lift and tug JUST PRIOR TO LAUNCH.

On 1993/09/28, after nineteen years worth of idiot dutiful hang checks and assumptions of being hooked in at launch and over thirteen years of violating the USHGA hook-in check regulation, Dennis's glider took a flight without him. Fortunately for Dennis and unfortunately for hang gliding this flight occurred at Morningside rather than Whitwell.

In the 1994/01 issue of Hang Gliding Dennis recounts his little tumble down the hill...

http://www.kitestrings.org/post273.html#p273

...and tells us about how he...
...added what Pat Denevan calls the hook-in check which consists of lifting the glider until the tug of the harness is felt and saying "hooked in" out loud.
That, as far as I can tell, is his first and last comment on the subject of dealing with the unhooked launch issue.

Eleven years, ten months, countless unhooked launches, and a couple of fatalities later later Bill Priday's glider takes a flight without him.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1149
Team Challenge: Daily Update Thread
Scott Wilkinson - 2005/10/02 15:09:27 UTC

Team Challenge, Day Two...

There was a long, emotional pilots' meeting this morning by the ramp at Henson's. Dean Funk, the meet organizer, has been devastated by Bill's death as much as anyone, having seen other deaths in the sport, and having actually left the sport, sold all his gear, and only recently decided to start flying again.

One thing is painfully obvious to everyone here: there was no official structure at launch yesterday. No designated Launch Director, no designated Safety Director. We all know there should have been. And, of course, there will be from now on. Some might blame the Team Challenge organizers for that oversight, but of course blaming anyone for Bill's death would be useless. There were many contributing factors, not least of which was Bill's own carelessness and gung-ho attitude.

Dean asked if anyone wanted to say anything about Bill. After an awkward moment of silence, I stepped up and tried my best to communicate the essence of Bill - his love and dedication to the sport, his big future plans, his warmth, and his eternal optimism. It was incredibly hard, and I got choked up while talking. Thankfully, others stepped forward to offer their memories of Bill as well. Finally, there was a long moment of silence in Bill's memory.

It was decided that the meet will go on today. Everyone felt, as Dennis Pagen eloquently put it, that flying for all of us is an affirmation of life, and that flying is how best to commemorate Bill and move past his death. Conditions look good for another Whitwell day, with clear skies and E-SE winds.
So why doesn't the motherfucker eloquently put ANYTHING about hook-in checks?

References to hook-in checks are still permitted publication in the magazine at least through 2006/01 and are probably not outlawed until after the lawsuit is filed at the end of October of 2006.

Dennis's game is self promotion - he's stated as much to me. Dennis has learned that he can best play that game by:

- publishing complex vector diagrams of lockout progressions which he knows nobody will read or be able to understand if they try but will demonstrate to the rabble how brilliant he is;

- doing absolutely nothing to develop or even promote technology which helps us mitigate the danger of low level lockouts; and

- telling us we really don't have much to worry about as long as there's a loop of 130 pound Greenspot at the focal point of our towing system.

Dennis has learned that the best way to win the self promotion game is to tell people only what they want to hear and to just do more of what they're doing already and do it more dogmatically.

Somebody find me a record of him saying or doing anything significantly outside of the mainstream. That crummy little article well over eighteen years ago was his high water mark.
miguel
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Re: You are NEVER hooked in.

Post by miguel »

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Tad Eareckson
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Re: You are NEVER hooked in.

Post by Tad Eareckson »

I don't know if he's a convert or not.

A hope he isn't though - it's about ten thousand times easier to start someone off doing this right than it is to convert him after he's started with one of the cults.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: You are NEVER hooked in.

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=26007
THE CODE AMONGST ALL PILOTS
Mike Badley - 2012/09/15 05:57:02 UTC
Sacramento

Failing to hook in

Well, well, well... It's the most preventable of all accidents in HG, and yet it keeps happening. Hang checks, little streamer ribbons with HOOK IN written on it, observers, wire crew, rituals, check lists... JEEZ.

So, have I ever launched unhooked? Nope, came close two times (in over twenty years of flying). Both flat slopers where you just mosey on out to the launch and just keep on trucking down the hill off into the air. Never on a cliff or ramp site - so why is that?

It isn't new sites that do it, or complacency, or lack of checklists. It's just that we have so MANY things to do to get into the air and we don't always do it the same way with zero distractions.

I personally just think you have to say to yourself that no matter WHAT you do on any site on any day or in any routine, that the absolute last thing you do before you pick your wing up for the run is CONFIRM you are hooked in.
Yeah Mike. Do it JUST PRIOR TO PICKING UP THE WING. For the love of God don't confirm that you're hooked in JUST PRIOR TO LAUNCH. You always need a little time between picking up your wing and running off the ramp to relax and start thinking about cycles, trimming your glider, briefing your crew...
In general, I won't even approach a launch site with a glider if I'm not hooked in - even at a site we have that is crazy hard to do that because of a stinking highway guard rail that racks my nuts every time getting over it while hooked in.
1. Sounds like you don't have any trouble at all hoisting the glider up while you're getting over the guard rail. Can you think of another time it might be a real good idea to hoist the glider up in the course of your flying day.

2. I could introduce you to some Aussie Methodist I know. They're also really into doing stupid shit and making their lives miserable for long periods before launch to make sure they're hooked in when they don't need to be and doing absolutely nothing to make sure they're hooked in when they do need to be.
Keep on checking your pals, check yourself, try to say to yourself that NOBODY that launches before you is going off unhooked on your watch!
http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1167
The way it outa be
Steve Kinsley - 2005/10/04 14:04:25 UTC

We have now rounded up all the usual suspects and promised renewed vigilance, nine page checklists, hang checks every six feet, et cetera. Bob Gillisse redux.
Takes but a second and could save a life.
There's only about one second that counts and you haven't said a goddam thing about it. And that's why you've started running with your carabiner dangling two more times than I have.

Idiot.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: You are NEVER hooked in.

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=27233
Mingus Labor Day launches 2012
Greg Porter - 2012/09/27 01:54:27 UTC
Mesa

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWeaC02XgoI


We had stormy weather forecasts which kept some folks away. It was flyable Friday Sunday and Monday, but Saturday got rained out. Got footage of some of the launches.
And it's really great to see how everybody reacted to the wake-up call Kunio gave everybody at the 2008 Mingus Labor Day Fly-In.
Had a big contingent from Crestline there...
Joe Greblo territory...
...and some pilots from Texas...
Martin Apopot, B Asher territory...

http://vimeo.com/16572582

password - red
2-112
http://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7600/28811055456_925c8abb66_o.png
Image
...and a couple places back east.
Kitty Hawk, Lookout, Blue Sky, Ridgely... The kind of places that produced such hang gliding legends as Marc Fink, Jim Rooney, and Bill Priday.
It was great meeting so many.
I'm sure it was. And it was great seeing all those people running off the ramp some very short time after they had gotten their hang checks.
If you are in the vid, give a reply here or on You Tube to let us know which glider was you.
Yeah, do that. It's always great to have these launches properly archived so that when somebody buys the farm there's a good record as to what his personal interpretation of "just prior to launch" was.
If you were there but I didn't get vid of you sorry about that, but let us know you were there anyway.
Yeah, we can probably extrapolate from the sample we have to what everyone else was and wasn't doing and saying.
I'm trying to remember all the names and places but have forgotten, so fess up!
Yeah, that's not all that was forgotten.
Hey enjoy the vid.
Fear not.
See you on the hill.
Or at the next celebration of life gathering. Whatever.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: You are NEVER hooked in.

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.crestlinesoaring.org/
Rob McKenzie - 2012/05/07 17:42 UTC

TFTHI

Tandem Failure to Hook In: Tragic tandem fatality in Canada recently has led Dan and me to share stories of waking up with night sweats just thinking about such a nightmare scenario.
Ya know when I break out in a sweat just thinking about such a nightmare scenario, Rob? I think about it five seconds before every foot launch I make.
Notwithstanding the continued emphasis to do hang checks before flight...
Fuck the continued emphasis to do hang checks before flight - asshole.
...we are curious about the physical difficulties of a passenger not being connected.
Yeah, I'm sure you are. Deliberately violate USHGA regulations and skip the hook-in check for every flight then figure out some idiot strategy for trying to deal with the consequences.
We'll have a suspension point rigged up at the LZ Sat May 12th at 6 PM. It will have the ability to hoist via 6:1 block and tackle, a pilot and passenger with passenger just holding the pilot by hand. How might the pilot be able to assist the passenger using just legs since arms are needed to fly the glider? Or using one hand and both legs? Or both arms and both legs for just a couple of seconds?
Who gives a rat's ass? Everything you're talking about is total bullshit. Start training yourself and all those other LA Basin accidents waiting to happen to follow procedures and do things right.
If you are curious about watching or trying please feel welcomed to join in.
That's OK. I was in the sport for nearly three decades and have seen enough stupid shit to last me for about ten or fifteen lifetimes.
It is important to note that in this case the passenger knows ahead of time what is about to happen so information obtained will in itself be to some extent unrelated to the accident in Canada.
Hey dickhead... What if Lenami had been advised ahead of time what COULD - and frequently DOES - happen to people who don't do hook-in checks prior to foot launches+
Plus even if we tried to surprise someone, they have little incentive to hang on since they are just two feet in the air. Adrenalin improves strength.
Doesn't seem to do much for...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=21474
fatal accident in Israel
Christopher LeFay - 2011/04/28 11:06:27 UTC

First couple years of flying: I had the glider on my shoulders and was just repositioning my feet when stopped by a pilot. He had watched as I skipped the hang check and allowed me get all the way to commitment before sounding the alarm. I was unhooked. I couldn't stop shaking for the better part of an hour.
...intelligence.
Fixinair - 2012/05/08 04:09

Get a daisy chain pre rigged with a carabiner clipped to the instructors harness... In hopes of being able to quick clip any passenger's harness webbing that happens to be in reach... Kind of a desperate stab in the dark type thing.
Yep. Desperate stab in the dark type thing. Great way to run an airline.

Fuck you guys.
Steve Davy
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Re: You are NEVER hooked in.

Post by Steve Davy »

http://www.flytandem.com/accident/index.htm
High Adventure Hang Gliding and Paragliding - 2012/08/26 13:00
Rob and Dianne McKenzie

Local novice HG pilot launches Crestline without legs in the leg loops of his cocoon harness. He notices that sinking feeling just as he launches and fearing falling from the glider begins doing a pullup as he lifts into the air. He continues to climb up into the bar using knees and feet and inadvertantly enters steep bank angles that nearly cause hitting the hill. After several left right roll reversals it mellows to more level and pilot is able to step into his cocoon. He makes a rapid descent on purpose to land asap. Landing is somewhat out of control but no injuries. Just a good scare.

Perhaps knowing that he could fly from the base tube and control the glider closer to trim airspeed and when well away from the hill he could use both hands to extend the boot of the harness to go prone, would be a wise option. And why dive to a landing asap? Time is on the side of this pilot. Would it be possible to stay up till late afternoon winds become stronger and more consistent to make it safer to land.
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