Weak links

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/9.033
Why weaklinks?

Davis Straub - 2005/02/08

Why should aerotow pilots use weaklinks?

Who says they should?

The weak link has one purpose and one purpose only...

Tost Flugzeuggerätebau

Weak links protect your aircraft against overloading.

...to protect your aircraft against overloading.

But for the better part of three decades aerotow "pilots", tug drivers, flight park operators, competition organizers and directors, reference book authors, and glider manufacturers have proven themselves incapable of:

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/26 02:44:10 UTC

The "purpose" of a weaklink is to increase the safety of the towing operation. PERIOD.

- understanding the concept of using a weak link to protect your aircraft against overloading;

http://ozreport.com/5.126
Flytec Dragonfly

USAFlytec - 2001/07/14

Steve Kroop - Russell Brown - Bob Lane - Jim Prahl - Campbell Bowen

The tail section of the Dragonfly is designed so that it can accept in-line as well as lateral loads. Furthermore the mast extension, which is part of the tow system, is designed to break away in the event of excessive in-line or lateral loads. The force required to cause a breakaway is roughly equivalent to the force required to break the double weaklink used on the tail bridle. More simply put, the mast would break away long before any structural damage to the aircraft would occur.

- building tugs that don't break before the weak link that's supposed to be protecting them from breaking breaks;

http://ozreport.com/3.066
Weaklinks

Davis Straub - 1999/06/06

During the US Nationals I wrote a bit about weaklinks and the gag weaklinks that someone tied at Quest Air. A few days after I wrote about them, Bobby Bailey, designer and builder of the Bailey-Moyes Dragon Fly tug, approached me visibly upset about what I and James Freeman had written about weaklinks. He was especially upset that I had written that I had doubled my weaklink after three weaklinks in a row had broken on me.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
weak links

Jim Rooney - 2007/07/22 22:30:28 UTC

I've heard it a million times before from comp pilots insisting on towing with even doubled up weaklinks (some want no weaklink). I tell them the same thing I'm telling you... suck it up. You're not the only one on the line. I didn't ask to be a test pilot. I can live with your inconvenience.

- understanding that a solo glider limited to 350 pounds can't pull any harder on the tug than a tandem glider limited to 350 pounds;

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3600
Weak link question

Jim Rooney - 2008/11/20 22:25:38 UTC

Something to bear in mind... the tug's weaklink is three strand.
For clarity... A normal single loop weaklink would be considered two. A tandem double loop is considered four.
In the tandem setup, the "weaklink" in the system is at the tug end, not the glider.

- configuring them such that tandem gliders don't end up with the towline when something gives;

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3648
Oh no! more on weak links

Carlos Weill - 2008/11/30 19:24:09 UTC

The tug weak link broke off at 1000ft, in less than a second the glider was at 500ft. At that point I realized I had the rope, so I drop it in the parking lot.

- configuring them such that solo gliders don't end up with the towline when something gives;

Wills Wing

Always use an appropriate weak link with a finished length of 1.5 inches or less.

- specifying appropriate weak link strengths for specific glider models;

http://ozreport.com/12.081
Weaklinks - the HGFA rules

Davis Straub - 2008/04/22 14:47:00 UTC

Weaklinks will consist of a single loop of Cortland 130 lb Greenspot braided Dacron Tolling line and should be placed at one end of a shoulder bridle.

- recognizing that a glider one and three quarters the weight of another should be using a weak link one and three quarters the strength of the other's;

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/skysailingtowing/message/612
hang gliding Comments on outlandish release/bridle/weak link

Tracy Tillman - 2001/05/25 01:01:56 UTC

I use 150 lb. for pro-towing, but Lisa still uses 130 lb. for pro-towing. I use 130 lb when using my regular towing bridle.

- understanding that weak links on two point bridles need to be heavier than weak links on one point bridles;

Dr. Trisa Tilletti - 2012/06

We could get into details of lab testing weak links and bridles, but this article is already getting long. That would be a good topic for an article in the future. Besides, with our backgrounds in formal research, you and I both know that lab tests may produce results with good internal validity, but are often weak in regard to external validity--meaning lab conditions cannot completely include all the factors and variability that exists in the big, real world.

- acquiring fucking clues as to their actual breaking strengths;



- tying them short enough such that they don't weld themselves to tow rings;

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8318769461/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8318781297/

- developing releases which will allow them to clear safely;

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/26 08:24:31 UTC

I use what we use at the flight parks. It's time tested and proven... and works a hell of a lot better than all the other bullshit I've seen out there.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8306429930/


- adopting superior weak link technology when it's handed to them on silver platters;

Dr. Trisa Tilletti - 2012/06

Dr. Lionel D. Hewitt, professor of physics and developer of the 2-to-1 center-of-mass Skyting bridle for surface towing, is well respected for his knowledge of towing, bridles, and weak links.

- observing what happens during a glider tow well enough to determine that Dr. Lionel D. Hewett, professor of physics and developer of the 2-to-1 center-of-mass Skyting bridle for towing, didn't/doesn't have a clue regarding the physics and functions of towing, bridles, and weak links;

Towing Aloft - 1998/01

Weak links very clearly will provide protection from excessive angles of attack, high bank turns and the like for this form of towing.

- understanding that anybody who thinks that any weak link will provide any measure of protection from excessive angles of attack, high bank turns, and the like for any form of towing is a total moron;

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=26870
weak links

Davis Straub - 2012/08/13 18:08:42 UTC

Used to do 130 lbs. Now do 200 lbs.

- understanding that appropriate weak link strengths aren't determined by imperial decree;

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22660
What can be learned from this "scooter" towing accident?

Mitch Shipley - 2011/01/31 15:22:59 UTC

Enjoy your posts, as always, and find your comments solid, based on hundreds of hours / tows of experience and backed up by a keen intellect/knowledge of the issues when it comes to most things in general and hang gliding AT/Towing in particular. Wanted to go on record in case anyone reading wanted to know one persons comments they should give weight to.

- being able to do enough grade school arithmetic to be able to identify the one person to whose comments you should give the most weight as a total moron;

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/26 02:44:10 UTC

The "purpose" of a weaklink is to increase the safety of the towing operation. PERIOD.

- understanding that anyone who thinks that having a weak link is gonna be of any more value in getting safely through the kill zone than a parachute, hook knife, or snakebite kit is a total moron.

- You assholes have no fuckin' clue what these things are for, how strong they should be, how strong they are, or how to configure them.

- The situations in which they're needed are statistically nonexistent.

- They're making it difficult or impossible to get airborne on good days.

- You're crashing gliders left and right and injuring and killing people.

- You're using them so people will be less afraid of using Davis Releases - lose/lose. They need to be appropriately afraid of Davis Releases and Davis Links so they'll stop using them and start doing the job right.

Gawd only knows how many tens of millions of dollars worth of damage they've done to the sport before you throw in the injuries and deaths.

YOU'RE INCAPABLE OF DOING WEAK LINKS RIGHT SO DON'T DO THEM AT ALL - ASSHOLE.

In responding to Rohan's points in the last issue about the use of weaklinks at the Worlds, I got to thinking more about weaklinks.

How wonderful!!! I can hardly wait to hear the results of...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25015
Zippy pounds in

Davis Straub - 2011/09/02 18:37:09 UTC

Concussions are in fact very serious and have life long effects. The last time I was knocked out what in 9th grade football. I have felt the effects of that ever since. It changes your wiring.

...your "THINKING" on this issue. And if the exercise weren't too taxing I so would like to hear any thoughts you may have had on prying open bent pin protow releases.

Rohan stated that weaklinks aren't useful for automatic release due to lockout.

ROHAN *STATED* that? This is absolutely revolutionary!!! Who'da thunk that just a couple hundred pounds of towline tension pulling sideways on you would be capable of rolling you ninety degrees and slamming you into a runway headfirst.

This is also the argument (sort of) in Taming the Beast, the article on Dynamic Flight's web site.

Well, it's just an argument (sort of). We don't have any actual data to indicate that something like this is possible.

If weaklinks don't save us when we get locked out, and we are supposed to be ready to release quickly...

While maintaining firm control of the glider with the other hand.

...under these circumstances, then just what are weaklinks for?

WEAK LINKS PROTECT YOUR AIRCRAFT AGAINST OVERLOADING.
WEAK LINKS PROTECT YOUR AIRCRAFT AGAINST OVERLOADING.
WEAK LINKS PROTECT YOUR AIRCRAFT AGAINST OVERLOADING.
WEAK LINKS PROTECT YOUR AIRCRAFT AGAINST OVERLOADING.
WEAK LINKS PROTECT YOUR AIRCRAFT AGAINST OVERLOADING.

Well, I can recall a time when having a weaklink was very useful for me:
http://OzReport.com/8.181#4
My aerotow/cart accident

http://ozreport.com/pub/images/fingerlakesaccident2.jpg
http://ozreport.com/pub/images/fingerlakesaccident3.jpg


And a real tragedy for the sport and the several dozen people in it who aren't total pieces of shit.

If you come off the cart early and hit the ground, you'd like the tow rope to break so that you are not pulled along the ground anymore than necessary.

- Yes, let's make that Number 87 on our list of things we'd LIKE weak links to do.

- Got any thoughts on how far is necessary? For you I'm thinking a couple hundred yards would be OK.

- What's the recommended strength for a weak link that breaks so that you are not pulled along the ground any more than necessary.

- Would different weight gliders use different strength weak links or would a 390 pound glider use the same weak link as a 165 pound glider - like we do for lockout prevention?

- I've never come off the cart early and hit the ground. I wait until I've got sufficient airspeed.

- I've only ever heard of one asshole forcing his glider off the cart early and hitting the ground. Unfortunately he only broke four ribs and his larynx and was able to return to the sport and remain in the gene pool.

- If I have a problem when I'm rolling or flying I can abort by sliding or twisting my left hand and/or letting go of the string between my teeth - I don't hafta wait until the glider slams in and a weak link fails.

- The only people I've seen crash shortly after coming off a cart have done so because their weak links failed.

- I don't give a flying fuck what happens to assholes who get on carts equipped such that their only hope of aborting a tow is to lock out or crash and wait for the weak link to blow 'cause I and others have busted our asses to make the technology to instantly and safely abort tows freely available and ignored and pissed all over by assholes who get on carts equipped such that their only hope of aborting a tow is to lock out or crash and wait for the weak link to blow and I can always use the data to help get through to non assholes.

- You didn't "come off the cart early". You got on a defective cart that you and everyone else knew was defective, it castered right on schedule, and - because you used primary and backup releases which stank on ice - you had no means of aborting the tow before you were dragged off, the nose planted, and you narrowly missed breaking your fucking neck the way you deserved to many times over.

I can't think of any other circumstances where a weaklink would be useful.

Have you read Dr. Trisa Tilletti's landmark article on weak links in the 2012/06 issue of Hang Gliding?

Any comments on your little boyfriend's statement that:

The "purpose" of a weaklink is to increase the safety of the towing operation. PERIOD.

Please write in if you know of one.

I thought it was totally awesome the way one increased the safety of the towing operation for...

http://ozreport.com/16.078
The Rob Kells Meet

Davis Straub - 2012/04/18 15:02:09 UTC

Mitch Shipley (T2C 144) crashed at launch after a weak link break. He tried to stretch out the downwind leg and then drug a tip turning it around and took out his keel (at least).

...Mitch Shipley, weak link break strategist extraordinaire and long time president of the Jim Rooney Fan Club.

But a weaklink is also a problem.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/skysailingtowing/message/4633
Weaklinks and aerotowing (ONLY)

Steve Kroop - 2005/02/10 04:50:59 UTC

Davis,

Your weak link comments are dead on. I have been reading the weak link discussion in the OR with quiet amusement. Quiet, because weak links seem to be one of those hot button issues that brings out the argumentative nature of HG pilots and also invokes the "not designed here" mentality and I really did not want to get drawn into a debate. Amusement, because I find it odd that there was so much ink devoted to reinventing the wheel. Collectively I would say that there have been well over a 100,000 tows in the various US flight parks using the same strength weak link with tens of thousands of these tows being in competition. Yes I know some of these have been with strong links but only the best of the best aerotow pilots are doing this.

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/25 21:40:25 UTC

Weaklink material... exactly what Davis said.

It's no mystery.
It's only a mystery why people choose to reinvent the wheel when we've got a proven system that works.

Not the weak links used by people who use weak links protect the aircraft against overloading - the ones who AREN'T total morons.

If it breaks when you are low and doing fine until it breaks, then it can be a problem especially if you are towing downwind.

michael170 - 2012/08/17 17:01:40 UTC

Zack, let me see if I understand your logic.

You had a thing and it broke needlessly.
You didn't want the thing to break needlessly.
You replaced the thing with a stronger thing.
Now the thing doesn't break needlessly.

That's why you shoot for the MIDDLE of the FAA safety range - or a bit higher. That's why you don't allow fucking assholes like Bill Moyes, Bobby Bailey, Dr. Trisa Tilletti, Davis Straub, Steve Kroop, and Jim Rooney to force you to or well beyond the bottom.

See:
http://ozreport.com/3.047
The critical aspects
http://ozreport.com/3.048
Sea breeze, lightning, rain
http://ozreport.com/3.049
The gag weak links
http://ozreport.com/3.066
Weaklinks
http://ozreport.com/3.068
Weaklinks, is there no shame?

Yes. Much fun to be had with those.

The question then becomes, what is the trade off? Is it more or less dangerous to have a weaklink? Can we make the "perfect" weaklink that is strong enough in almost all circumstances, but weak enough when we need it?

- "WE" can't 'cause any group of we that includes you is way too fuckin' stupid to be allowed anywhere near any endeavor which relates to equipment.

- Anybody WITH a functional brain can just stick a loop of 250 pound test on the end of ANY bridle for ANY solo glider and that'll keep him in a good part of the FAA legal/safety range, prevent the glider from feeling any pain worth mentioning, and allow the pilot a fairly generous operating range in which he need not be holding his breath worrying about being dumped.

- No, asshole, there's no such thing as a weak link that will break when "WE" need it to. That's why "WE" need decent release systems and need to avoid the total shit with which motherfuckers like you and the motherfuckers at Wallaby, Quest, Lookout, Blue Sky, and Ridgely flood the market.

http://ozreport.com/9.033
Why weaklinks?

Davis Straub - 2005/02/08

Competition pilots are driven to use strong links because breaking a weaklink causes them to go to the back of the line as well as the problems that come with broken weaklinks low.

Yeah, it's just the Sacred COMPETITION Pilots who are driven to use stronglinks.

If we want to use weaklinks, we need to be sure that we are not penalized if our weaklink breaks.

Hey Davis... Ever consider the idea of using weak links that don't break?

Dr. Trisa Tilletti 1 - 2012/06

You and I have flown sailplanes for almost as long as we have flown hang gliders. We own two sailplanes and have two airplanes that we use for towing full-size sailplanes. In all the time that we have flown and towed sailplanes, we have not experienced or even seen a sailplane weak link break.

Dr. Trisa Tilletti 2 - 2012/06

It's not that it doesn't happen, but it is a rare occurrence. Russell Brown, a founder of Quest Air in Florida and a well-known Dragonfly tug pilot, is also a sailplane pilot, tug pilot, and A&P mechanic for a large commercial sailplane towing operation in Florida. He told us that, like us, he has never seen a sailplane weak link break, either.

Just kidding.

Write in and tell me what you think.

I think you should aim a GoPro camera at a vat of boiling acid and dive in face first.

Or check:
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=553
Weak Links vs Strong, but foolproof release?

Nah...

Luke Haddleton - 2005/02/09 03:22:46 UTC

Following the "Worlds" weak-link, ongoing saga. What realistically are the options, advantages and pitfalls of weak-links, as opposed to a foolproof pilot release mechanism, for both tug and glider pilots.

We have standards which cover helmets, gliders, harnesses, and also, there are prescribed and standardised methods of towing.

Would it make sense to have a standardised and certified foolproof release, either attached to a pilots hand/wrist or mounted so that in event of emergency use, it would not be dangerous to reach and release?

Weak-link sounds to me like "loose-cannon", in that they seem to create as many problems as they are supposed to prevent, in that they can go off or not, either intentionally or not, which must be dangerous?

If a foolproof, standard and certified release were devised, (if not already), would it be better than using the current, seemingly hybrid system that appears open to varied interpretation and offers varied performance? Cost for a standardised release I doubt would ever be a factor - even a gold plated release would cost less than a good quality certified helmet?

What a lunatic proposal. We should keep on using...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24534
It's a wrap

Davis Straub - 2011/07/30 19:51:54 UTC

I'm very happy with the way Quest Air (Bobby Bailey designed) does it now.

...the chintzy shit like you and the other motherfuckers at Quest perpetrate on the public, slap on a chintzy piece of fishing line, and hope that it meets our expectation that it breaks as early as possible in lockout situations, but is strong and reliable enough to avoid frequent breaks from turbulence.

or
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/skysailingtowing/messages/

Yeah, let's see where Saint Peter and his cult of handpicked shitheads stand on the issue.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/skysailingtowing/message/6726
Weaklinks

Peter Birren - 2008/10/27 23:41:49 UTC

Imagine if you will, just coming off the cart and center punching a thermal which takes you instantly straight up while the tug is still on the ground. Know what happens? VERY high towline forces and an over-the-top lockout. You'll have both hands on the basetube pulling it well past your knees but the glider doesn't come down and still the weaklink doesn't break (.8G). So you pull whatever release you have but the one hand still on the basetube isn't enough to hold the nose down and you pop up and over into an unplanned semi-loop. Been there, done that... at maybe 200 feet agl.

Hard to beat a system like that.

...for much much more on this subject.

Fuck you, Davis.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/9.034
2007 Worlds - Slovakia's qualities

Davis Straub - 2005/02/09

My buddy Peter...

Already I despise him.

...writes about his country's bid.

Peter Gasparovic - 2005/02/09

Many European pilots will find it more convenient to fly the Worlds in Europe, would rather fly over other countryside than wild flatlands, and none of them will need entry visas for Slovakia.  The organisation of the 2007 world hang gliding championship in Slovakia is strongly supported by the most significant company in region - Zeleziarne Podbrezova Ltd., and we have skilled people organising a big hang gliding contest "Podbrezova Cup" each year.

However, from the pilot view, this can't be reason to vote Slovakia.  I have another argument - they will have much more fun there than in Big Spring.  I don't like that hang gliding contests let pilots to fly behind safety margin (Millau, Hay).  We shouldn't compete in overmastering of dangerous situations, instead we should compare our tactical decisions, and art of glider utilization.  I believe, there will never be T-shirt "I survived Podbrezova".

EVERYTHING that was dangerous about Hay was due to massive incompetence and gross negligence.

The carts were junk, the Dragonflies and people driving them were junk, the towlines, the releases, bridles, weak links, and configurations were shit, the competitors weren't screened for towing competence, and the organization and execution sucked. Robin got killed 'cause the people in this sport really don't give a collective rat's ass about doing things right when shoddiness is good enough to get by on most of the time.

And when you use shoddy procedures to get people off slopes you can kill someone just as dead and fast as you can when you're trying to get people off of runways. And the people running the 2005 Tennessee Tree Toppers Team Challenge are gonna prove that point 265 days after the people at the 2005 Worlds demonstrated what you can accomplish with shoddy procedures, carts, releases, and weak links.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/9.035
Comments about Peter's article on Slovakia

Davis Straub - 2005/02/10

There will not be a safety issue at Big Spring.

I don't know what greater proof one can ask for that there WILL BE a HUGE safety issue at Big Spring than that unbelievable statement.
I, Lord Davis, have decreed that there will not be a safety issue at Big Spring. You may now relax and bask in the Light of My Magnificence.
Asshole.

The meets in Texas have proven to be safe.

Right, Davis. If you haven't maimed or killed anybody in the course of a meet it was safe.

So you can keep on violating the crap out of USHGA/FAA regulations regarding release accessibility, release capacity, weak link configuration, weak link minimum rating, and relative weak link ratings for glider and tug.

The organization of the Big Spring meet includes the Quest Air staff which have an outstanding safety record.

Quest Air?

You mean the Quest Air that makes...

http://ozreport.com/9.009
2005 Worlds

Davis Straub - 2005/01/11

The weaklink was caught on the release mechanism, a standard spinnaker release found on bridle systems used at Lookout Mountain, Moyes, Wallaby Ranch, and Quest Air.

...the standard spinnaker release which snagged Robin's weak link...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8318769461/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8318781297/

...just before Bobby Bender Bailey...

http://ozreport.com/9.008
2005 Worlds

Davis Straub - 2005/01/10

As he took off his left wing was dragging. Bobby Bailey, the best tow pilot in the business...

...the best tow pilot in the business...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24534
It's a wrap

Davis Straub - 2011/07/30 19:51:54 UTC

I'm very happy with the way Quest Air (Bobby Bailey designed) does it now.

...who "designed" the "release" which snagged Robin's weak link...

Paul Tjaden - 2011/07/30 15:33:54 UTC

Quest Air has been involved in perfecting aerotowing for nearly twenty years.

...slammed Robin back into the paddock?

You mean the Quest Air where an emergency simulation in which...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3107
I have a tandem rating!!!

Lauren Tjaden - 2008/03/23 22:20:15 UTC

When Jim got me locked out to the right, I couldn't keep the pitch of the glider with one hand for more than a second (the pressure was a zillion pounds, more or less)...

...an attempt at actuation of the primary release reveals a serious control issue...

...but the F'ing release slid around when I tried to hit it.

...the primary release fails...

The barrel release wouldn't work because we had too much pressure on it.

...the "backup release" fails...

Anyhow, the tandem can indeed perform big wingovers, as I demonstrated when I finally got separated from the tug.

...and the glider gets totally killed for the purpose of the exercise the flight is considered safe and successful 'cause everything happened at altitude?

Any lessons from Hay will be incorporated in safety measures at Big Spring.

Wanna tell us what lessons were learned at Hay?

How 'bout:
- 2004/08/02 - Finger Lakes
- 2004/06/26 - Hang Glide Chicago
- 1999/02/27 - Arizona Hang Gliding
- 1996/07/25 - Garrettsville,
- 1990/07/05 - Hobbs
- 1985/07/17 - Chelan

How 'bout all the clusterfucks like Lauren's that hardly ever get mentioned 'cause they happen at altitude and are accepted as routine events?

The lesson that was learned at Hay was:

http://ozreport.com/9.009
2005 Worlds

Davis Straub - 2005/01/11

This type of release mechanism has been banned (at least for a short while) from the Worlds at Hay.

- ban Bobby's defective release which for the two days that the competition is grounded anyway
- put it back up as soon as competition resumes 'cause that's what all the two pointers are using
- make everybody use a weak link which blows every other tow
- hope it will blow quickly enough to prevent a lockout when the next Bailey two pointer locks up
- ignore all the crashes it causes
- pretend you've fixed the problem

Flying in the Big Spring area is my idea of fun flying.

Well, as long as you're having fun and have told us there will not be a safety issue at Big Spring I don't think there's anything we really hafta worry about.

Big fat fun thermals without the mechanical turbulence of the mountains (check out last year's Worlds at Greifenburg). I'm known to much prefer flying in areas with the least amount of turbulence. I've written many long reports on Big Spring in the Oz Reports, so it is an open book.

As opposed to your forum which you closed off to the prying eyes of anyone other than...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14931
Tad's release (even more)

Freedomspyder - 2009/02/14 17:43:30 UTC

I've found your posts on both hook-in checks and releases very interesting and well thought out.
Best of luck dealing with the Oz Report forum cult and its leader.

...approved cult members following another easily preventable hang gliding fatality at the end of April.

Finally, I think that there should be another European Championships there in Slovakia, if that's what European pilots want.

Since when did you...

http://ozreport.com/12.081
Weaklinks - the HGFA rules

Davis Straub - 2008/04/22 14:47:00 UTC

Pilots must use weaklinks provided by the meet organizers and in a manner approved by the meet organizers. All weaklinks will be checked and use of inappropriate weaklinks will require the pilot to go to the end of the launch line to change the weaklink.

Weaklinks will consist of a single loop of Cortland 130 lb Greenspot braided Dacron Tolling line and should be placed at one end of a shoulder bridle.

...start giving a flying fuck about what competition pilots or anyone else wanted?

It is a great Category I event and is almost 100% attended by European pilots. I suggest that the other Category I event go to a location outside of Europe.

Wanna hear MY suggestion, Davis?

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/9.035
Slovakia or Texas?

Oyvind Ellefsen - 2005/02/10

Given our recent experiences in Millau and Hay, I think it's quite fair to ask the organizers to elaborate a little more on their plans to improve our chances of surviving the next Worlds. In Hay there was a lively discussion about having the ambulance stationed in the paddock, so we could get a 0.1% better chance, as Atilla said.

If they had two ambulances they could've gotten a 0.2% better chance. Three ambulances... do the math.

Right now the odds are at 1 to 100, with or without ambulance.

Almost seventeen times better than Russian roulette.

Not very good...

Sounds good to me.

...but we're all immortal, right?

Except for the off the scale stupid people you always read about in the fatality reports - the ones who, as evidenced by the gates being found closed on their Wallaby-style tow releases, obviously made no attempt to release from tow prior to the weak link break. Accidents waiting to happen.

The Slovakian bid seems to have the mandatory safety requirements covered, but not much more is explained. How many times will I have to dive low into a lee-side turnpoint in the Low Tatras? The launch is described as "for advanced pilots", that's cool, as I have "Advanced pilot" written on my hang gliding license. How do we make sure our pilots that go there are "advanced" enough?

Check the rocks under the ramp and trees around it each evening for intermediate pilots.

Like we made sure our pilots had advanced aerotow skills before going to Hay?

I'm not sure it made much difference. It wasn't the people deficient in aerotow experience who got killed at Hay.

Besides, when reaching for Wallaby Release levers and Bailey Release barrels and recovering from Local Rules precision weak link failures we're all Hang Zeroes.

Observation... You're better off launching from a cart with zilch aerotow experience than you are foot launching with tons of aerotow experience.

Davis describes an aerotowing system in Texas that he believes to be safe and good, maybe that is because he is used to it?

It's mostly because he's in bed with the other scumbags at Quest. Nobody gets used to that aerotow "system" - people just fly it and pray that it's not gonna be them on the back end of the line when the shit hits the fan.

None of my team has ever been towing under that system and I do not think we are the only one.

Smart move. No way in hell would I go up on or behind crap like that.

I will get to try it during the comp April...

Don't be in too big of a hurry.

...but that's after the vote.

Things are looking pretty good for Big Spring.

Should we take Davis' word that it's perfectly safe and suited for the Worlds?

Of course you should.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25015
Zippy pounds in

Davis Straub - 2011/09/02 18:37:09 UTC

Concussions are in fact very serious and have life long effects. The last time I was knocked out what in 9th grade football. I have felt the effects of that ever since. It changes your wiring.

You should trust Davis to run a perfectly safe meet just as you should trust your tug driver...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
weak links

Jim Rooney - 2007/08/01 13:47:23 UTC

Whatever's going on back there, I can fix it by giving you the rope.

...to always make a good decision in the interest of your safety - in the very unlikely event that your Davis Link should be a little slow kicking in.

And besides...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22660
What can be learned from this "scooter" towing accident?

Davis Straub - 2011/02/07 19:21:29 UTC

Okay, enough. On to new threads.

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1041
"Sharing" of Hang Gliding Information ?!?

Merlin - 2012/05/26 14:22:30 UTC

I confess to previously having a bit of an Oz Report habit, but the forced login thing has turned me off permanently, and I am in fact grateful. Frankly, the site had pretty much been reduced to a few dedicated sycophants in any case.

I've seen many times the destructive consequences of "control freaks".

Who else are ya gonna listen to?

Can we please have a description of how the pressure to launch in dodgy conditions will be handled?

Thermal soaring conditions are - by definition - dodgy, whether you're launching from a runway or a ramp. There's never any pressure to launch in them - the problem is keeping people from being crushed and trampled in the stampede to the front of the line.

We're not killing people because they're being pressured to launch into dodgy conditions - we're killing them because we're not using ribbons to indicate when conditions are unacceptably dodgy and we're not using equipment capable of dealing with unavoidable dodginess.

Or will there be enforcement of a standard release?

Goddam right there will be.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22308
Better mouse trap(release)?

Jim Rooney - 2010/12/16 18:47:05 UTC

Oh, I've heard the "everything we do is an experiment" line before.
The trouble is, it's not.

I've seen experimentation with towing gear more than anything else in HG.
I've not seen many go out and try to build their own sails for example. When someone does, they're very quickly "shown the light" by the community. Example... the guy that was building the PVC glider in California somewhere.
But for some reason, towing gear is exempt from this.

The difference is what we do has been done by thousands of people already. It's been tested... a lot.
What we do is free of the experimentation part.
It's still dangerous, but not at the level of building new gear is. Not even close.

That's what people fail to realize.
It's no small difference. It's a huge chasm.

Notice how I'm not saying to not do it.
Go forth and experiment. That's great... that's how we improve things.
I'm just warning you of that chasm.

A few years ago, I started refusing to tow people with home made gear.
I like the idea of improving gear, but the lack of appreciation for the world they were stepping into didn't sit with me.
For example... flying with the new gear in mid day conditions?
Are you kidding me????

Approach it for what it is... completely untested and very experimental gear which will likely fail in new and unforseen ways as it tries it's damndest to kill you... and then we can talk.

You fly the Industry Standard shit that killed Robin Strid and Mike Haas within the space of 198 days or you don't fly.

Weaklinks?

http://ozreport.com/9.031
Worlds - Rohan speaks

Rohan Holtkamp - 2005/02/06

The tug pilots wanted 80 kilogram weaklinks on the pilot end and that is EXACTLY what they got.

http://ozreport.com/9.010
2005 Worlds

Davis Straub - 2005/01/12

The proposed weaklink has been strengthened to 115-129 kg using six strands of brick layer's string.

http://ozreport.com/12.081
Weaklinks - the HGFA rules

Davis Straub - 2008/04/22 14:47:00 UTC

Weaklinks will consist of a single loop of Cortland 130 lb Greenspot braided Dacron Tolling line and should be placed at one end of a shoulder bridle.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=26870
weak links

Davis Straub - 2012/08/13 18:08:42 UTC

Used to do 130 lbs. Now do 200 lbs.

Work in progress. We're still looking for that magic number which always blows when you want it to but never blows when you don't want it to. Stay tuned. Or...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24534
It's a wrap

Paul Tjaden - 2011/07/30 15:33:54 UTC

Quest Air has been involved in perfecting aerotowing for nearly twenty years.

Give us a call in another twenty years.

Length of towing line?

http://ozreport.com/9.009
2005 Worlds

Davis Straub - 2005/01/11

The rope length will be increased from 60 meters to 90 meters and from spectra to poly to increase the stretch in the rope and help out with the new weaker weak links. This will also decrease the tow angles and decrease the forces on the pilot who's out of whack.

The towlines will be ninety meters.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24534
It's a wrap

Lauren Tjaden - 2011/08/01 02:01:06 UTC
Eminently Qualified Quest Tandem Pilot

For whomever asked about the function of a weak link, it is to release the glider and plane from each other when the tow forces become greater than desirable -- whether that is due to a lockout or a malfunction of equipment or whatever. This can save a glider, a tow pilot, or more often, a hang glider pilot who does not get off of tow when he or she gets too far out of whack.

And they'll be using nice stretchy polypro to decrease the forces on the pilot too far out of whack so the weak link they're using to save the hang glider pilot who's too far out of whack won't break when he's too far out of whack.

And polypro, of course, unlike other elastic materials, never increases the force on the weak link, pilot, glider, tug when it recoils - it just dutifully absorbs energy it deems detrimental to the pilot and slowly dissipates it overnight in the hangar.

This might sound like dumbfounding, off the scale stupidity to the weekend warrior pilot but...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/25 21:40:25 UTC

See, the thing is... "we", the people that work at and run aerotow parks, have a long track record.
This stuff isn't new, and has been slowly refined over decades.
We have done quite literally hundreds of thousands of tows.
We know what we're doing.

Sure "there's always room for improvement", but you have to realize the depth of experience you're dealing with here.
There isn't going to be some "oh gee, why didn't I think of that?" moment. The obvious answers have already been explored... at length.

See, the thing is... They, the people who work at and run aerotow parks have a long track record.

This stuff isn't new and has been slowly refined over decades.

Or sometimes it's just been pulled out of the assess of fucking geniuses like Bobby Bender Bailey and Bill Moyes after Bobby's standard spinnaker release (found on bridle systems used at Lookout Mountain, Moyes, Wallaby Ranch, and Quest Air and slowly refined over decades) has just killed another tow pilot.

They've done quite literally hundreds of thousands of tows, know what they're doing, and...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Jim Rooney - 2011/09/02 23:09:12 UTC

Remember kids, always blame the equipment.

...can ALWAYS find ways to blame something other than their shit equipment - almost always the dead pilot who was just killed by their shit equipment.

Sure "there's always room for improvement" - TONS of room for improvement. But you have to realize the depth of experience you're dealing with here.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22308
Better mouse trap(release)?

Jim Rooney - 2010/12/16 18:47:05 UTC

A few years ago, I started refusing to tow people with home made gear.
I like the idea of improving gear, but the lack of appreciation for the world they were stepping into didn't sit with me.
For example... flying with the new gear in mid day conditions?
Are you kidding me????

Approach it for what it is... completely untested and very experimental gear which will likely fail in new and unforseen ways as it tries it's damndest to kill you... and then we can talk.

They've figured out that a high enough percentage of the people who fly these things are so fucking stupid that they'll keep on flying Industry Standard shit that they know will kill them rather than rather than listen to anyone who's developed anything of any quality.

Aerotow skills of the pilots coming there? I think we have enough proof that not all the NAC's care about the pilot requirements laid out by CIVL or the organizers.

Big surprise. They don't give rat's asses about making any pretense of adhering to equipment standards, why should we expect them to worry about the airworthiness of the pilots?

Wouldn't it be nice to know that the organizers have at least thought about how the well known safety matters can be improved?

Yeah, but what are ya gonna do?

Look...

http://ozreport.com/9.011
2005 Worlds

Davis Straub - 2005/01/13

Things improve and the weaklinks are proven to be weak.

I've been very careful as they went back to 80 kg weaklinks (four strands), after complaints from the tug pilots about 115 kg (six strands) being too high.

Dean Funk didn't get out of the start circle. Tom Lanning had four launches, and two broken weaklinks and a broken base tube. He made it just outside the start circle.

They increased the safety of the towing operation by making everyone use extra safe weak links precisely calibrated to various numbers that people with long track records pulled out of their asses.

http://ozreport.com/9.009
2005 Worlds

Davis Straub - 2005/01/11

This type of release mechanism has been banned (at least for a short while) from the Worlds at Hay.

They banned Bobby's release "design" during the two days that everybody was grounded before they let them go back up. What more do you want them to do?

I can't see any evidence of learning taking place in any of the bids.

I've seen very little of any evidence of learning taking place in hang gliding period since right after I got into it over thirty-two years ago. And most stuff I'm seeing indicates that it's moving backwards at a pretty good clip.

We have have failed in making the Cat 1 comps safe through the CIVL rules, maybe the organizers can try to make up for it?

Yeah.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Davis Straub - 2011/08/26 14:04:52 UTC

We had six weaklink breaks in a row at Zapata this year.

Right.

If you'd shoot the fuckin' organizers there might be a snowball's chance in hell.

Show me some progress, and you have one vote.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3391
More on Zapata and weak link

Paul Tjaden - 2008/07/22 04:32:22 UTC

I have never had a lockout situation happen so quickly and dramatically and had no chance to release as I have always thought I could do.

Davis Straub - 2005/02/10

(editor's note: I've sent your requests to David Glover.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TDHqsXRtl0
Aerotowing Weaklinks

David Glover - 2008/08/04

First we start off with Cortland Line Company Greenspot. This is what we use.

Right after the Bogong Cup I also sent him a long list of questions that he might be asked re his bid.

I got some, Dave...
- WHY is that what "WE" use?
- At what weight do "WE" fly?
- Do any of those of us who are not "WE" get to fly in compliance with FAA safety regs?

Many were safety oriented questions.

To which we can expect the usual load of crap in the way of answers.

Hopefully he will answer your questions in time to obtain Norway's vote.)

Yeah, so much of this sport is based on hope and so little is based upon competence.

[Tad Eareckson]

Tom Lanning - 2005/01/10

Day Five

We had a pilots meeting yesterday afternoon to discuss the accidents in the tow paddock.

What accidents?

There was a discussion about the availability of medical help. Some pilots wanted more, but the current coverage seemed reasonable to me.

Yeah, I want an ambulance on standby with its engine running or I don't launch here at Hay.

I thought it was more important to prevent accidents by towing INTO the wind.

That's why you're just a competitor and not a meet-head.

The discussion finally turned to that topic and I felt better.

Go figure.

However, the meet directors are forcing us to use their weak links.

Well yeah, you saw what happened to Robin when HE refused to use one of their weak links in conjunction with one of Bobby's "releases". (You were standing at the head of a line one or two over from Robin at the time - if I recall our conversation correctly.)

They are rated about half the strength of what I currently use. (Wallaby/Quest style links.)

They wanted to be about twice as safe - and cutting the weak link rating in half is a lot cheaper than having twice as many ambulances on standby or getting releases that only suck half as much.

That makes me a little nervous since a weak link break close to the ground can hurt.

No way, dude.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
weak links

Jim Rooney - 2007/08/01 19:49:30 UTC

It's more of this crappy argument that being on tow is somehow safer than being off tow.

Just more of this crappy argument that being on tow is somehow safer than being off tow.

And besides, Bobby's making the call on this, and...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/26 08:24:31 UTC

Bobby's a fucking genius when it comes to this shit.

...Bobby's a fucking genius when it comes to this shit.

The unspoken problem here is that a lot of the pilots don't know how to aerotow.

Especially the fucking tug jockeys.

I suspect we will see more accidents; hopefully no more injuries.

What a joke.

There was a nice ceremony at the crash site at sunset last night. It would have been a beautiful evening if the reason for the gathering was different.

It would've been different if the people running this show didn't all have their heads a couple feet up their asses.

Tom Lanning - 2005/01/12

Should Have Stayed In Bed Today

Sigh. Some days it is just better to stay in bed than to face the day. Today was one of those days.

I got into the alternate launch so I could test fly my glider. The day was blue, breezy, smokey from fires to the south, and a low inversion. The glider seemed to work ok, but a bit stiff.

Pilots were sinking out, but I managed to stay in air for awhile but had to land for another tow. I landed and then dropped to my knees from heat and exhaustion. My knee fell on the high spot of my carbon basebar and promptly broke it. Crap.

I had always hoped that was due to a crash precipitated by a Local Rules precision weak link failure - which was what Davis seemed to be implying - but it still makes the case. You increase the numbers of takeoffs and landings at an operation, you increase the potential for damage, crashes, and injuries.

Belinda rushed to find a spare basebar. The Moyes crew didn't have any carbon bars, but did have an old round one. Belinda and I did a hasty repair job in the middle of the tow paddock and I was ready for the air again.

The new "improved" weak link broke and I had to swing around for another go. However, I had to land behind a fence.

The important thing was that it increased the safety of the towing operation. If it hadn't blown when it did you might have had to land behind two fences.

Belinda helped me once again by lifting my glider over the fence. Ok. Time for another tow. This time weak link broke at a hundred feet.

Well, at least that eliminated any possibility of a lockout.

Avianonline Limited - 2012

It is helpful for the pilot to be able to supply their own weak link in case there is a problem of a too strong weak link else where in the system. (Good pilots use very light or weak weak links as high loads should not occur with a good tow. Beginners might be tempted to use a heavy weak link after multiple weak link failures. This is extremely dangerous and it is highly recommended that you have your towing videoed and then correct the pilot error and do NOT change the weak link for a stronger one.)

Did you get it on video to see what you did wrong?

Luckily the cart came out to me and I finally got a full tow. By now everyone was gone. I mean everyone. So I climb to the awesome height of 3500 feet and head on course to the start gate. I have a weak climb and then dribble seventeen kilometers down the course line. I landed near what I thought was a road, but turned out to be a ditch. I chased the kingpost away from the old water tank and windmill. There were several sheep skeletons laying about, some old pump parts, and nothing else. Went to take a drink and discovered my water was gone! I had no radio contact and only enough cell phone contact to eek out an SMS message. Dean and Belinda soon drove up through the field to my position. Rescued!

Minimal points for today. Any hopes for a reasonable showing are probably gone. I also heard that Moyes probably doesn't have any more base bars. I think I'll go to bed and hope tomorrow is better!

The rest of the US team is still out in the field. I hope they did well.

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/28 19:39:17 UTC

The frustration of a weaklink break is just that, frustration.
And it can be very frustrating for sure. Especially on a good day, which they tend to be. It seems to be a Murphy favourite. You'll be in a long tug line on a stellar day just itching to fly. The stars are all lining up when *bam*, out of nowhere your trip to happy XC land goes up in a flash. Now you've got to hike it all the way back to the back of the line and wait as the "perfect" window drifts on by.

I get it.
It can be a pisser.

But the "other side"... the not cautions one... is not one of frustration, it's one of very real danger.
Better to be frustrated than in a hospital, or worse.
No exaggeration... this is the fire that the "other side" is made of. Best not to play with it.

(I rode back with Davis and Dean).

So maybe the sink-out, heat, exhaustion, broken basetube, blown weak links, dehydration, and dashed hopes of placing anywhere WEREN'T the worst parts of your day.

Yesterday was disappointing, but still fun.

I had hoped to make goal each day (or at least reasonably close). Yesterday was typically the kind of day I do well at; light broken lift with a fair amount of wind. Sinking out was bad enough, but breaking the basebar just topped things off. Add two weak link breaks and a hop over the fence and I was not the cool, calm, collected pilot you need to be to compete. I still had fun. I had four good landings when others where pounding, I got a chance to see the "real" Australia, and I had a chance to hang out with my mates. Anyway, it is much better than worrying about plowing the next snowfall!

But not quite as good as it could've been without a bunch of shitheaded tug drivers looking out for your safety and making your decisions for you, right?

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/9.036
Bridle killed the hang glider pilot

Davis Straub - 2005/02/13

Bridle killed the hang glider pilot

No, you fucking moron, there were a whole bunch of elements which aligned to get Robin killed, but his BRIDLE wasn't one of them.

Robin Strid died because the weaklink wrapped around one leg of his spinnaker shackle.

Duh.

The weaklink was too strong to break.

- So was the one on Bobby's end.

- In accordance with Dr. Trisa Tilletti's expectation that it break as early as possible in lockout situations but be strong and reliable enough to avoid frequent breaks from turbulence.

The weaklink was made of multiple loops. At least, that's the story that I heard Rohan Holtkamp, who investigated the accident, present to the team leaders at the Worlds.

Why were there no photographs taken of it so wouldn't hafta worry about anyone's STORY?

The ends of the legs of the shackle were thicker than the middle.

What "LEGS"? There's a GATE - singular - which increases in thickness from the pivot point. And that's been pretty goddam obvious since long before Bobby decided to use it for a job it wasn't designed to do.

The weaklink caught up on the thicker ends...

More than one end?

...of the legs...

More than one leg?

...after the shackle was opened by the release cable.

Is a cable the best way...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=11497
Aerotow release options?

Axel Banchero - 2009/06/20 04:57:01 UTC

I just kept hitting the brake lever for a few seconds in WTF mode...

...to transmit actuation tension to that thing?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8305428629/

One of the legs rotates when the release is opened and the weaklink has to slide over the thicker leg.

And that wasn't obvious BEFORE Robin got killed?

I'm communicating with Rohan to get better answers to what happened to Robin and how to avoid this in the future.

- The fuckin' weak link hung up on the fuckin' gate 'cause the fuckin' gate increases in thickness as the end is approached 'cause the fuckin' spinnaker shackle wasn't designed to do the job of a fuckin' aerotow release.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8318769461/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8318781297/

-- What's so difficult about that to understand?
-- How much better answers do you need?
-- If you wanna avoid this in the future don't use a goddam spinnaker shackle. Find someone with a functional brain to do the job right.

- Why are you communicating with Rohan? He was a meet organizer and let this piece of junk go up.

- Why aren't you communicating with Bobby...

http://ozreport.com/9.008
2005 Worlds

Davis Straub - 2005/01/10

Bobby Bailey, the best tow pilot in the business...

...the best tow pilot in the business? He "designed" the goddam thing and he was towing Robin when his "design" locked up and killed him.

- Why isn't Bobby communicating on this issue? Does he feel NO responsibility for the role of his "design" in this clusterfuck? Or is he just trying to keep a low profile and hope this blows over without anyone noticing?

- Why aren't we hearing anything from...

http://ozreport.com/9.009
2005 Worlds

Davis Straub - 2005/01/11

The weaklink was caught on the release mechanism, a standard spinnaker release found on bridle systems used at Lookout Mountain, Moyes, Wallaby Ranch, and Quest Air.

...fuckin' Bill Moyes? Is he too busy making up new towlines and half G weak links?

- So what was the outcome of this inquest of Rohan's? Last time I looked these pieces of crap were the same as they were twenty years ago.

- I guess he really didn't find that there was a problem with this thing.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24534
It's a wrap

Davis Straub - 2011/07/30 19:51:54 UTC

I'm very happy with the way Quest Air (Bobby Bailey designed) does it now.

I guess the only real problem was that he wasn't using it in conjunction with a standard aerotow weak link.

http://ozreport.com/12.081
Weaklinks - the HGFA rules

Davis Straub - 2008/04/22 14:47:00 UTC

At the 2008 Forbes Flatlands Greenspot for the first time was used as the standard weaklink material (thanks in large part to the efforts of Bobby Bailey). We applaud these efforts to improve the safety of aerotowing by using a better weaklink material.

If he had he'd have been fine. Guess that gets Bobby off the hook - even if Robin died on it.

I'll have much more on releases soon. Send me your thoughts on bridles and releases and any pictures of bridles.

My thoughts? Stay out of this game, asshole. Stick to calling tasks and flying lotsa miles and leave the stuff that requires brains and integrity to the people who have it.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/9.037
Recommendations based on Robin's accident

Davis Straub - 2005/02/14

Recommendations based on Robin's accident

CRASH.

Rohan did the evaluation of Robin's bridle after the accident at the Worlds.

No he didn't - he did the evaluation of Robin's RELEASE. Do try to learn the difference.

Furthermore, I think I just figured out - no thanks to your illiterate "descriptions" - that Rohan was towing one point with the spinnaker shackle at the apex, probably fixed.

Totally insane when you consider that this:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8313526097/


cheap, effective, bulletproof-once-you-get-to-it technology was readily available at the time.

Rohan Holtkamp - 2005/02/14
Dynamic Flight

Recommendation One:

Do not use a 'wishsard'...

It's not a 'WISHSARD'. It's a Wichard 2673 Quick Release Shackle. Spinnaker shackle will do.

...or 'spinnaker' release directly connected to a string or rope.

This thing is used pretty much universally as a two point aerotow release. If you're gonna use it as a two point aerotow release it's gonna need to be directly connected to a string or rope.

This type of metal release has a metal knob...

No it doesn't. The whole thing is metal (stainless) and it's got a reverse taper.

...on the opening arm...

Gate.

...that a rope will catch on, even when the release is activated and open.

A rope WON'T catch on it. It's designed to be used with a rope. A string's a little more problematic but if you don't do anything real stupid you're not gonna have real a problem with it.

You must have a metal ring on this type of release.

Bullshit. If you're using it as a:
- two point release you can't.
- one point release you're an idiot and shouldn't be flying anyway.

If you're flying two point and use a weak link with an appropriate length loop size, like this one:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8305428629/


it's gonna clear - provided, of course, you don't have a shit actuation system (which everybody does).

The ring must be large enough to slide past the knob under all angles and situations.

This is lunacy.
- This isn't designed to engage a ring - it's designed to engage a spinnaker sheet.
- If you wanna engage a ring use something that's designed to engage a ring - like a three-string.
- Don't tell people how to use this as a one point release. Tell them how to set up a proper one point system.
- For two point none of you morons is using a secondary weak link (below the tow ring).
- At the Worlds the one halfway sane thing y'all accidently did was put a weak link between the towline and tow ring - on the back end anyway.
- You thus had no need for a weak link on the bridle end.
- So you could've directly engaged the bridle to the spinnaker shackle and there would've been ZERO possibility of a snag.

A reliable release applies to both ends of the system.

Funny that nobody ever seems to mention anything about the front end release when somebody dies because of a failure of or inability to get to the back end release.

http://ozreport.com/pub/images/robinsshacklebig.jpg

How many things can you find wrong with this picture, kids?

Outcome: Sadly, this type of release/weaklink combination is still commonly used on Dragonflys, without the metal ring!

WHAT? The only thing I've ever seen on the back end of a Dragonfly is Bobby's Schweizer knockoff. It doesn't start getting real stupid until they configure the bridle with a weak link above the tow ring only.

And there are no reports of the Dragonfly actuation system or release mechanism failures or delays. Bobby built a pretty good system which allowed him to release at will without control compromise 'cause HE didn't want to get killed. He saved the dangerous crap for the glider 'cause he doesn't really give a rat's ass about what happens to THEM.

Look where we're ACTUALLY having problems, Rohan.

This Robin Strid thing really isn't all that important. It was pretty much a fluke and easily avoidable. The fact that it killed someone doesn't make it any more significant than any of the zillions of release failures or delays that we have ALL THE TIME at altitude about which nobody thinks twice.

He had about two seconds between the time his release jammed and he was dead. He may have been dead anyway even if the release had instantly dumped him. So look at the releases which require two seconds to blow after the decision is made - which is just about all of them.

Six days shy of four years after Robin, Steve Elliot is gonna come off the cart at Forbes, go into a left roll, cartwheel, and get a fatally broken neck.

- If his release had jammed he would've died because his release had jammed.

- If he'd been using a 1.5 G weak link he would've died because he was using a stronglink.

- If his release had jammed and he had been using a 1.5 G weak link he would've died because his release had jammed and he was using a stronglink.

- But since he was using a Bailey Release...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3391
More on Zapata and weak link

Paul Tjaden - 2008/07/22 04:32:22 UTC

I have never had a lockout situation happen so quickly and dramatically and had no chance to release as I have always thought I could do.

...which he couldn't get to and a Bailey Link...

Dr. Trisa Tilletti - 2012/06

We want our weak links to break as early as possible in lockout situations, but be strong and reliable enough to avoid frequent weak link breaks from turbulence. It is the same expectation of performance that we have for the weak links we use for towing sailplanes.

...which didn't meet our expectation that it break as early as possible in a lockout situation, then he died because he had his keel bracket set too low.

End of problem. So how many people made goal?

Recommendation Two:

Use a ninety meter tow rope which will allow the glider pilot twice as much time to react/release in the event of an emergency, as a sixty meter rope. I showed on the whiteboard these angles verses distance.

Why did you have to? I thought Bobby was the best tow pilot in the business.

Outcome:

Sadly, we tried to put our ninety meter ropes (which we had prepared before the meet) on Bill's tugs but he said no way and reportedly cut them off his tugs.

Fuck Bill.

On the positive side, all the trikes used ninety meter ropes from day one, as past accidents have taught the aerotowing community this lesson before.

Yeah, that's about the only way it's possible for the aerotowing cult to learn anything - ya can't just do the math, ya gotta slam a bunch of gliders in. And even then it's an absolute miracle if anything is learned.

Learning seems to happen a lot faster when somebody at the front end is killed. Sure didn't take long for all the 914s to move their parachutes back up to the middle of the wing after Chad bought it.

Discussion of weaklinks ensued;

Still going strong today.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=26870
weak links

The good news is that nowadays you can occasionally hear a few voices from people who know what the fuck they're talking about.

Recommendation Three.

Weaklinks shall be no stronger than one 'G', i.e. equivalent to the combined weight of pilot, glider and gear.

WHY? What's the "THINKING"?

This applies to the tug end as well. The glider end is best set at 15% weaker to avoid having the glider pilot fly with the rope in the event of a weaklink break at the tug end.

Bullshit. You don't compromise the glider to suit the whims of the asshole up front. You set a safe weak link for the glider and you use a tug, front end weak link, and driver capable of doing their jobs.

String weaklinks should be comprised of short loops to avoid twisting and therefore altering the strength.

String weaklinks should be comprised of short loops to avoid...



...welding the bridle end to the tow ring.

Outcome:

Most tug pilots refused to tow unless the glider end was reduced to 30% weaker i.e. 80 kg.

SHOOT the motherfuckers - starting with Bill and Bobby. Go all surface tow or hold the goddam Worlds in the mountains. Starve these goddam douchebags into submission.

The next flying day this proved to be too weak, and the number of reflys too high for the tug pilots...

My heart would leap with joy if one of these sonsabitches would crash and burn doing a Bailey Link necessitated relight.

...so there was a return to the breaking strain of around one G as recommended in the 'Local Rules' from the start.

Yeah. "AROUND" one G - as they made no allowances whatsoever for actual flying weights.

The long weaklinks that Tish and Tove insisted upon, tested to be a little too strong when twisted up...

A little too strong for WHAT? Did they break their gliders?

...so did not break as often.

Oh. If they're TOO strong they don't break AS often. Why are they breaking AT ALL?

This turned out to be fine as the tug pilots thought...

Tug pilots can't THINK. All they can do is drive up and down all day and tell everybody how experienced they are.

...the weaklinks 'looked right' because they were comprised of four strands.

Maybe we could give them special sunglasses to make straight pins look bent.

Our hang gliding community...

Fuck the hang gliding "COMMUNITY" - it's a sewer.

...like other facets of aviation (and life) must learn and adapt if deaths are to be avoided in the future.

They didn't learn and adapt fast enough to prevent the aerotowing deaths of Jeremiah Thompson, Arlan Birkett, James Simpson, Steve Elliot, Roy Messing, and Lois Preston and near totaling of Holly Korzilius in the wake of this one.

I feel saddened and frustrated when facts and physics prove change is needed, then the solutions that are offered are rejected.

- Tell me about it.

- Fuck Bill, Bobby, and Davis.

- You need to be a lot louder and nastier than that if you wanna get anything significant accomplished. And I haven't been hearing anything from you since this statement.

[Steve Davy]

How many things can you find wrong with this picture, kids?

One. It's the wrong tool for the job.

[Tad Eareckson]

I guess you can get full marks for that.

I'd have given bonus points for other stuff though.

- He has the full towline tension going to the mechanism - which tends to get a bit sticky under high loads - instead af splitting the tension with a bridle.

- There's absolutely no reason to be using a cable lanyard and he uses a cable lanyard.

- It's designed to be used with a leechline lanyard and...



...configured for a two to one mechanical advantage.

- So with a bridle and a leechline lanyard he could've:
-- had a four to one mechanical advantage over what the spinnaker shackle has built in; and
-- put the weak link on the other end of the bridle and eliminated any snag potential.

That said it's still total lunacy to use for one point.

But it's not that bad a solution for two point if you MUST go off the shelf and...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8305428629/


...do the job right.

[Steve Davy]

I guess you can get full marks for that.

You guess?

I'd have given bonus points for other stuff though.

What other stuff?

- He has the full towline tension going to the mechanism...

Yeah, so?

...which tends to get a bit sticky under high loads

'Cause it's the wrong tool for the job.

...instead af splitting the tension with a bridle.

Oh, so "splitting the tension with a bridle" solves the problem.

- There's absolutely no reason to be using a cable lanyard and he uses a cable lanyard.

Wrong tool for the job. I just said that.

- It's designed to be used with a leechline lanyard and configured for a two to one mechanical advantage.

Funny, I thought it was "designed" to be used to release a spinnaker sheet, not a hang glider.

- So with a bridle and a leechline lanyard he could've:

-- had a four to one mechanical advantage over what the spinnaker shackle has built in; and
-- put the weak link on the other end of the bridle and eliminated any snag potential.

And when his weak link snaps, bridle wraps, he's no longer weak link protected.

That said it's still total lunacy to use for one point.

Lunacy is the name of the game in this sport. Kinda thought you would have figured that out by now.