1. OK, it's got puff elements to it. Still, that's way too benign sounding a term for what those bastards perpetrated.
2. You don't have a snowball's chance in hell of getting banned. I reserve that honor for liars, cheats, con artists, saboteurs, and people who grew up in areas with dangerously high levels of lead in the drinking water.
I'll put together a response on the substantive issues of this thread soon but I'm feeling a bit burned out at present.
We are human, and can not do "always". I use the Aussie method, a self hang check, then a second party hang check, a hook-in check, and Dave Hopkin's rule of three. 3 mistakes between when the glider comes off the rack to launch, then it's time to put the glider away, since I am not focused on what I am doing.
...used a pile of other focus, assembly, and preflight crap to help him...
What's more, I believe that all hooked-in checks prior to the last one before takeoff are a waste of time, not to say dangerous, because they build a sense of security which should not be built more than one instant before commitment to flight.
...build a sense of security which should not be built more than one instant before commitment to flight.
Tom instinctively knows...
Even with all that, I know that one day, I could still launch unhooked. I am human. I can only mitigate the risks, not eliminate them.
...that his strategy sucks and he's rolling dice but is too fucking stupid...
I don't teach lift and tug, as it gives a false sense of security.
...to follow the goddam regulations and verify his connection at the only time it matters.
He's terrified that, after he completes his final preflight check, a tensioning of his suspension - including his leg loops - will cause his carabiner to partially unhook...
Lift and tug can give a false positive if you are hooked in to something other than your hang strap, or in a situation like this...
...or fully unhook and connect itself to something other than his hang strap.
(One wonders why the douchebag isn't terrified of having his carabiner partially unhooking or fully unhooking and connecting itself to something other than his hang strap when it's loaded up in flight - as it will fully be after seven steps down the slope...
...(which is the period during which a lot of victims of Tom Galvin, Joe Greblo, Matt Taber, Steve Wendt, Greg Berger caliber instruction start realizing they have serious problems).)
So Tom's ASSUMING for eighteen seconds that his harness is connected to his glider and for gawd knows how long that he's got his leg loops.
Allen, as the final step of his PREFLIGHT PROCEDURE, behind launch position and, let's call it, eighteen seconds before launch...
Or you can turn around, stretch the rigging and assure yourself that you are completely hooked in.
... turns around to visually check that his carabiner is fully engaged and stretches the rigging a couple of times just for the hell of it.
Then, within three seconds of launch, he TWICE lifts his glider to the stops to confirm that he's hooked in and has his leg loops. Note that neither cycle causes his carabiner to unlock itself and partially disengage or fully disengage and reconnect to something other than his hang strap.
I would submit that this clip is reasonably good evidence that Tom's concerns are unfounded and he's a total asshole.
This was different for me, I hook in and do a full hang check just behind launch right before I go. I was also taught to do a hooked in check right before starting my run, lifting or letting the wind lift the glider to feel the tug of the leg loops.
Eric knows the difference between a preflight and hook-in checks and will NEVER launch with a dangling carabiner or empty leg loops.
In the fifty-three second period between him picking up the glider at launch position and committing upon deciding on a cycle he verifies his connection status and leg loops ten times and probably tightens everything again as he commits.
- Compare/Contrast with the zero confirmations per eighteen seconds between pick-up and launch in Tom's idiot procedure.
- Find me a turner and learner who - after a couple of minutes of waiting for a cycle - puts his glider down, walks through, and turns around to make sure that his carabiner hasn't partially disengaged or fully disengaged and connected to something else.
Joe Greblo, Greg DeWolf, Windsports teach turn and learn and skip the hook-in check - just like Tom Galvin does. Greblo, DeWolf, Windsports students like George Stebbins, Phill Bloom, and...
I attempted to launch unhooked from the Towers today. Within a couple of steps the base bar was at my chest and I had that "Oh s&%t!" feeling. My weight below the base bar pulled the glider back down and I crashed into the bushes fifty to sixty feet below launch.
I've spent a few hours trying to pinpoint the exact breakdown or distraction which allowed to me to walk up to launch unhooked (which I typically don't do) and have concluded that all it takes is the slightest deviation from a routine to put one in that position.
I usually check again on launch, but also failed to do so. I was very lucky to come away from this incident with a few scrapes and bruises and no obvious damage to my glider. I honestly thought that I had my launch regiment dialed in and that I would never do this.
Another example of how vigilant and aware we all need to be about hooking in. You seriously cannot check too many times!
...Greg Jones LAUNCH UNHOOKED (big surprise).
There is NO RECORD of a lift and tugger falling from his glider because he launched:
- unhooked
- partially hooked
- hooked into something other than his hang strap
- minus his leg loops
If you try to use cumbersome and mostly useless preflight checks like hang checking and turning and learning as substitutes for hook-in checks they will NEVER:
- be done JUST PRIOR TO LAUNCH
- become muscle memory components of launch sequences
And within the foot launch flyer population you WILL HAVE more unhooked launches, missed leg loops, crashes, injuries, cripplings, and deaths - PERIOD.
One was a shallow slope launch, survivable. I sprained my ankle.
The other was a windy assisted cliff launch at Jean ridge NV - not too survivable.
Hanging from the basetube by my finger tips forty feet over jagged lava rocks was my worst nightmare come true. Miraculously, I was not seriously injured.
We are human, and can not do "always". I use the Aussie method, a self hang check, then a second party hang check, a hook-in check, and Dave Hopkin's rule of three. Three mistakes between when the glider comes off the rack to launch, then it's time to put the glider away, since I am not focused on what I am doing.
- believes pilots can't be trained to do "always"
...and...
- uses:
-- the Aussie Method
-- a self hang check
-- a second party hang check
-- a Greblo turn and learn preflight check which he very mistakenly refers to as a hook-in check
-- Dynamic Dave's Rule of Three
-- focus
...to reassure himself that from the time he goes into launch mode and the time he moves a foot - however short or long that is (in this case eighteen seconds) - he is and will be hooked in.
Allen completes his preflight routine in the staging area a few yards behind launch with:
- a visual inspection and tactile check of his suspension
- a light tensioning of his suspension a couple of times within two seconds to check line routing
- an almost certain omission the worse than useless goddam hang check
He then proceeds to launch, sets the glider down, and - within a span of five seconds - picks up, does a double lift and tug hook-in and leg loops check, and starts running into the air.
At launch he DOESN'T NEED TO turn back around to make sure he:
- didn't hook into something other than his hang strap
- failed to fully engage the hang strap with the carabiner
He's done that already with his PREFLIGHT check.
And in order for him to get killed from a partial hook-in...
...he - between preflight and launch - has to:
- unhook
- partially rehook
- fail to inspect the connection
- have the partial connection disengage in flight
- have the slip go the wrong way
This simply DOES NOT HAPPEN in real life. People who launch partially hooked do so because they make NO INSPECTION WHATSOEVER of the connection at the moment of hooking in or afterwards. And that can be one hundred percent prevented with proper training. (I scared the crap out of myself by screwing the pooch and I can scare the crap out of anybody who has a snowball's chance in hell of getting my signature on his card.)
What DOES HAPPEN in real life is people launching with dangling carabiners who've PREFLIGHTED the connection:
- in the setup area
- in the staging area
- just behind the ramp
- at the back of the ramp
- at launch position
And we have documentation on ALL of those.
It's WAY easier to:
- forget to connect
- forget to connect and not preflight the connection
- forget to connect and forget to preflight the connection
- disconnect and forget to reconnect
- disconnect and forget to reconnect and not repreflight the connection
- disconnect and forget to reconnect and forget to repreflight the connection
than it is to partially reconnect.
At a mountain site we deliberately connect and disconnect AT LEAST once a day.
At a tow operation we can be deliberately connecting and disconnecting multiple times a day - especially where FAA weak link minimums are violated / Rooney Links are enforced.
At a training operation - hill, dune, scooter - a student can easily deliberately connect and disconnect a dozen times a day.
A partial connection is INADVERTENT and MAY occur once a flying career - and ONLY *IF* the person hasn't been properly trained.
When we're standing on ramps in light switchy air we're usually trying to optimize our odds for safe launches and soaring success by catching the very beginning of a thermal cycle. We're watching the ribbons down below and when they start straightening up we start gearing for a two second optimal launch window.
- There isn't a turner and learner on the planet who's gonna put the glider down, walk through, examine his suspension, and pick up an trim the glider at that point.
- And there isn't a lift and tugger on the planet who WON'T instinctively cinch his suspension tight within the three seconds he's got till the puff hits his face.
- The fuckin' turner and learner is gonna be launching on the ASSUMPTION that he's hooked because he REMEMBERS his last preflight check - real or imagined - eighteen seconds or five minutes ago.
- The lift and tugger isn't gonna take any chances since the cost of verification is pretty much ZERO.
There is ZERO chance that Allen will EVER launch un or partially hooked.
There is ZERO chance that Tom will launch PARTIALLY hooked but the chances of him launching UNhooked aren't all that bad...
Even with all that, I know that one day, I could still launch unhooked. I am human. I can only mitigate the risks, not eliminate them.
...as he BLOODY WELL KNOWS.
And I can live with BOTH of those equations JUST FINE.
With each flight, demonstrates a method of establishing that the pilot is hooked in just prior to launch.
All three pilots above have satisfied this basic requirement.
Lift and tug is one method to accomplish the above. Lift and tug is not the only way to demonstrate whether the pilot is hooked in just prior to launch.
There ARE NO *PILOTS* above. There are three glider drivers with various degrees of redeeming social value.
Tom's at the bottom of the heap and way in the red 'cause he doesn't know the difference between a preflight and a hook-in check, thinks that the latter will increase his chances of an unhooked launch, has students, dodges questions, walks out of the room through his wet paint when he's cornered, and hides behind ban buttons.
Chris is an asshole, doesn't know what a spreader bar is, and can't be bothered to read his fuckin' owner's manual and follow the fuckin' instructions.
Allen doesn't know what a weak link is and has the utmost respect for Dennis Pagen - who's a fraud and one of the more significant serial killers this sport has seen.
...have satisfied this basic requirement.
Two of them have. Allen verifies two seconds prior to commitment and I'm gonna call Chris zero seconds / launching with tight suspension. Zero, two, four seconds... Bulletproof. After that we're entering the realm of iffy. After ten or fifteen seconds... Why even bother?
Tom spends ten seconds preflighting his suspension and, as Rick Masters would say...
At that moment, I would banish all concern about launching unhooked. I had taken care of it. It was done. It was out of my mind.
...at that point banishes all concern about launching unhooked. He's taken care of it. It's done. It's out of his mind.
And he can now start FOCUSING on his launch for the next eighteen seconds - which is EXACTLY what everyone who's ever run off a ramp with a dangling carabiner was doing.
He had no sane reason NOT to do a lift and tug hook-in check - and if he had had to wait five minutes for a favorable puff you and I know goddam well that five minutes would've qualified as "just prior to launch".
There's enough smooth air coming in that the glider WANTS to float up to the stops. Watch the left wheel come off the ground at 0:14. All he has to do is let it do what it wants to. But he holds it down on his shoulders and keeps the angle of attack low for the eighteen seconds he's standing there 'cause to do otherwise would give him a false sense of security that he was hooked in and set a dangerous example for his students and fellow Colorado pigfuckers.
And it's only at 0:33 - two seconds after he commits - that his suspension goes tight. And at that point it's no longer an issue if he's hooked into something other than his hang strap or partially hooked in.
And in my dream universe he'd have his instructor ticket revoked IMMEDIATELY and his rating suspended and a recall letter would go out to all his surviving students notifying them that their ratings were suspended pending a half day of remedial training.
As a USHPA observer, I will not sign off for a USHPA rating until the pilot has demonstrated that he is doing a hook-in check consistently, just prior to launch, on every flight I observe.
...that asshole would have gotten a license to kill himself in that particular fashion from Allen either.
Lift and tug is one method to accomplish the above.
The best - hands down and head and shoulders above anything else.
- minimizes the time the pilot must assume that he's hooked in to zero to two seconds
- verifies connection to the glider and both leg loops
- virtually zero cost in time effort and launch readiness
- quickly becomes the muscle memory initial action of the launch sequence
- can be repeated multiple times while the pilot waits for a launch window
- can be performed by:
-- most pilots in dead air
-- all pilots in enough air to float the glider and/or using two man crews
- happens automatically in strong wind launches barring active resistance from pilot and/or crew
- is used by many pilots who prefer to launch with the wing high and suspension tight for other reasons
- signals that the pilot is hooked in and has his leg loops to:
-- a tow driver and crew
-- everyone assisting with or observing a ramp launch
Turners and learners are regularly launching unhooked and have no built in defense against missed leg loops.
Aussie Methodists launch unhooked, get picked up by dust devils, miss leg loops, and are unable to practice their religion at many flying sites and in many circumstances.
Hang checkers get mangled and killed in droves from unhooked launches, missed leg loops, and partial hook-ins.
There's no record of a lift and tugger getting so much as scratched as a result of an unhooked launch, missed leg loops, or partial hook-in.
If you can lift and tug but choose not to you're not doing a hook-in check and you're not a competent pilot.
Lift and tug is not the only way to demonstrate whether the pilot is hooked in just prior to launch.
Nope. Lying down on a launch dolly or platform rig is rather nice as well. But there's no record of a foot launcher who's survived an unhooked launch saying...
Martin Apopot - 2010/01/18 22:21
Hearne
He went back to the scooter machine and I gave him my signal I am ready. Before the signal, I should have picked up my glider to feel for the pull in my strap and leg loops.
...he was unable to pick up his glider to feel for the pull in his strap and leg loops.
And there are no fatality reports about lapsed lift and tuggers or statements from witnesses or compilers about the departed one's inability to lift and tug.
And the crap that Tom does will NEVER become a muscle memory component of his launch sequence.
USHGA's got absolutely NO PROBLEM getting real specific...
Demonstrate three consecutive landings within 25 feet of a target after a flight which requires turns on approach. All landings must be safe, smooth, on the feet and in control.
...when they see an opportunity to MAXIMIZE the possibility of maiming...
Nothing creates carnage like declaring a spot landing contest.
...people. But when there's an opportunity to minimize or eliminate unhook launch and lockout fatalities they state that verification must be made "just prior to launch" so assholes like Ryan and Bob can argue for all eternity that a hang check in the staging area whenever is adequate and a release actuator must be "within easy reach" so assholes like like Bobby Fucking-Genius-When-It-Comes-To-This-Shit Bailey can maintain the total fiction of an "easy reach" and strap a bicycle brake lever to a downtube where it can and does turn easily salvageable situations into fatal headfirst impacts.
I don't know what you're trying to accomplish by trying to make a case that this motherfucker is satisfying the "just prior to launch" requirement with a preflight check eighteen seconds before commitment.
- If you asked a ten year old kid who'd never seen a glider before if Tom made a check JUST PRIOR TO LAUNCH he'd say no 'cause he knows that zero plus eighteen is a lot closer to eighteen than it is to zero.
- I've watched Space Shuttle launches scrubbed at a lot less than that.
- It's a pretty safe bet that Kunio made a lot of launches within eighteen seconds of completing the hang check he ALWAYS used to assure himself that he was hooked in.
- If I showed you security camera footage of someone on the sidewalk who looked both ways to confirm that there was no traffic within striking distance on the highway, waited eighteen seconds, and then ran across - successfully or not - you would NOT be making a case that his check was made JUST PRIOR to the critical action. Tell me how the assumption on the ramp after an eighteen second delay can't be just as lethal as the assumption on the sidewalk.
But don't worry. The ratio of people in this idiot sport who consider that five or ten minutes qualifies for the definition of "just prior to launch" is about the same as the ratio of pin benders to straight pinners. So that's a numbers game you're always gonna win.
Tad wrote:Tom's at the bottom of the heap and way in the red 'cause he doesn't know the difference between a preflight and a hook-in check, thinks that the latter will increase his chances of an unhooked launch, has students, dodges questions, walks out of the room through his wet paint when he's cornered, and hides behind ban buttons.
Nope, I would fly with him anyday and not worry about him launching unhooked.
Tad wrote:Chris is an asshole, doesn't know what a spreader bar is, and can't be bothered to read his fuckin' owner's manual and follow the fuckin' instructions.
Nope, Chris is both good people and a good pilot. You and he have issues with each other. Funny that you use him as a positive example.
miguel wrote:Lift and tug is one method to accomplish the above.
Tad wrote:The best - hands down and head and shoulders above anything else.
- minimizes the time the pilot must assume that he's hooked in to zero to two seconds
True.
Tad wrote:- verifies connection to the glider and both leg loops
Possibly, my leg loops have buckles. Buckles can be partially engaged by binding on something.
Tad wrote:- virtually zero cost in time effort and launch readiness
True.
Tad wrote:- quickly becomes the muscle memory initial action of the launch sequence
So can turn and learn.
Tad wrote:- can be repeated multiple times while the pilot waits for a launch window
Going to check those sidewires multiple times? straighness of keel? continuity of vg system?
Tad wrote:- can be performed by:
-- most pilots in dead air
True.
Tad wrote:-- all pilots in enough air to float the glider and/or using two man crews
Not something I would want to do with a slider harness in turbulent conditions.
Tad wrote:- happens automatically in strong wind launches barring active resistance from pilot and/or crew
See above.
Tad wrote:- is used by many pilots who prefer to launch with the wing high and suspension tight for other reasons
I and many others launch with a loose strap and low wing.
Tad wrote:- signals that the pilot is hooked in and has his leg loops to:
-- a tow driver and crew
True.
Tad wrote:-- everyone assisting with or observing a ramp launch
Anyone assisting with launch should be under verbal command from the pilot. Assumptions are dangerous. BTDT.
Tad wrote:Turners and learners are regularly launching unhooked and have no built in defense against missed leg loops.
When I walk forward to stretch the rigging, I can feel the leg loops. I am sure others can feel theirs. Please provide an instance where a turn and learn was performed and the pilot launched unhooked.
Tad wrote:Aussie Methodists launch unhooked, get picked up by dust devils, miss leg loops, and are unable to practice their religion at many flying sites and in many circumstances.
Hang checkers get mangled and killed in droves from unhooked launches, missed leg loops, and partial hook-ins.
There's no record of a lift and tugger getting so much as scratched as a result of an unhooked launch, missed leg loops, or partial hook-in.
Ann would be proud of you.
Let me fix this for you.
Tad wrote:There is no record of anyone, who has 'demonstrated a method of establishing that the pilot is hooked in just prior to launch', getting so much as scratched as a result of an unhooked launch, missed leg loops, or partial hook-in.
Tad wrote:According to me, if you can lift and tug but choose not to you're not doing a hook-in check and you're not a competent pilot.
Fixed it for you again
Tad wrote:I don't know what you're trying to accomplish by trying to make a case that this motherfucker is satisfying the "just prior to launch" requirement with a preflight check eighteen seconds before commitment.
- If you asked a ten year old kid who'd never seen a glider before if Tom made a check JUST PRIOR TO LAUNCH he'd say no 'cause he knows that zero plus eighteen is a lot closer to eighteen than it is to zero.
I see no problem with the way Tom waited to launch. Out here, we do not have the luxury of consistant laminar 10 knot breezes to ease on into. The pilot, after making his 'just prior to launch' determination, must wait until conditions are such that a safe launch is possible. It may be 1 second or it may be 10 minutes. Conditions, not your dogma, determine when to launch.
Tad wrote:- I've watched Space Shuttle launches scrubbed at a lot less than that.
Yet, a shuttle had fatal problems due to a preflight glitch.
Tad wrote:- It's a pretty safe bet that Kunio made a lot of launches within eighteen seconds of completing the hang check he ALWAYS used to assure himself that he was hooked in.
You do not know what Kunio thought; you only know that he launched unhooked.
Tad wrote:- If I showed you security camera footage of someone on the sidewalk who looked both ways to confirm that there was no traffic within striking distance on the highway, waited eighteen seconds, and then ran across - successfully or not - you would NOT be making a case that his check was made JUST PRIOR to the critical action. Tell me how the assumption on the ramp after an eighteen second delay can't be just as lethal as the assumption on the sidewalk.
But don't worry. The ratio of people in this idiot sport who consider that five or ten minutes qualifies for the definition of "just prior to launch" is about the same as the ratio of pin benders to straight pinners. So that's a numbers game you're always gonna win.
That kind of logic demands that we check those sidewires and the rest of the pre-flight "just prior to launch".
This should be a good lesson for anyone that sees that a hang glider has missed his/her hang check, you shouldn't just stand there and say to yourself that they missed there hang check then let them fly off, like this paraglider pilot did. I say if you see it happen let someone know quickly then they can check it for them or you personally go up to the hang glider in question and help him/her do a hang check.
It really amazes me that this women has no problem telling authorities that she saw him never do a hang check and let him launch!
Over the course of my flying career I had to work under and with, get signatures from, tow behind, and fly with a lot of lowlifes I'd just as soon forget.
...and not worry about him launching unhooked.
That's a HUGE factor in the vast majority of unhooked launch disasters - damn near all the ones I can recall.
- Nobody's worried about anyone but himself - and very rarely that much - launching unhooked.
- Everybody and his dog is worried about whether or not someone has had a hang check. And once somebody accepts an offer of assistance with or responds that he's had one he's good to go for the next half hour - minimum.
- I was horrified watching all the light air launches at the Lookout ramp in 2009. Everybody performed a hang check just behind the ramp and after that nobody worried about anyone launching unhooked. (Just like nobody from that crowd was worried about Bill Priday launching unhooked at Whitwell about three and a half years prior - until two seconds after he had.)
- If you wanna keep Tom alive on any particular launch then worry about him launching unhooked - and most worry about him launching unhooked as you see him getting poised to go.
- If you wanna maximize Tom's prospects for long term survival then worry about him doing the fucking hook-in check every launch - for those times when you're not gonna be around.
But he's not gonna do a fucking hook-in check 'cause if he did it would be an admission that he and his cult have been doing and teaching things wrong all their careers and Socially Unacceptable Tad might actually know what he's talking about.
Nope, Chris is both good people...
Good people don't sit around all day clicking those cowardly despicable little Jack Show "Sink This!" buttons.
...and a good pilot.
I have some very narrow definitions for someone who ranks as a pilot. They're not so demanding that a Hang One can't fall within them - but Chris doesn't hit the mark.
You and he have issues with each other.
You look at the record and tell me what I did to merit the treatment I got from that asshole. Also look around and see what he's done or has a chance of doing that'll leave the sport any better off than it was when he found it. Hell, I'll settle for him just getting one other person to launch the way he does.
...what I do and advise. And, besides, people who have this issue right are such rarities that I can't afford to be too choosy about the individuals I use as positive examples.
Buckles can be undone by binding on something.
If your buckles can come undone once you're secured in your harness it has a serious and unacceptable design flaw. Still, you hafta lose both of them on the same launch for the issue to matter.
So can turn and learn.
No. It can't. We just watched Tom launch after an eighteen second delay. No way in hell can you talk about that being a component of a launch sequence.
What's more, I believe that all hooked-in checks prior to the last one before takeoff are a waste of time, not to say dangerous, because they build a sense of security which should not be built more than one instant before commitment to flight.
...be using it to build a sense of security more than one instant before commitment to flight.
It's a reasonably good preflight check procedure. Use it for anything beyond that and it works against everybody.
Going to check those sidewires multiple times? straighness of keel? continuity of vg system?
Yeah. Just as soon as I start noticing problems with people's sidewires and keel developing between the setup area and the front of the ramp and figuring out how the VG system could possibly matter.
Not something I would want to do with a slider harness in turbulent conditions.
1. I have a rather vague picture of slider harnesses but if I had one I'd rig it so that I could do an effective lift and tug. The engineering to fix these harness issues is gonna be a thousand times easier than having to discuss over and over for decades the special cases that eliminate that check as an option.
2. If the launch conditions are so dangerous that letting the suspension go tight for a second or two is gonna put you over the tipping point then you need crew. And once you have crew ANYBODY can safely tension the suspension ANY TIME he feels like it.
See above.
See above.
I and many others launch with a loose strap and low wing.
Anyone assisting with launch should be under verbal command from the pilot.
Like everybody on the crews of Bob Gillisse and Bill Priday was? Ever wonder how many people have ended their hang gliding careers by calling "Clear!" and having their crews under their unquestioned verbal command?
I want people with common sense on my wires and I'm not too concerned about any cards in or not in their wallets. Common sense means helping me keep the glider level, not walking away to take a piss during a 35 mph gust, letting go of the wires when I say clear and/or start running off the ramp, and not clearing my nose when I say to clear the nose if my hang strap is empty and fluttering in the breeze.
And the thought now occurs to me that it's an inherently bad idea to have everyone assisting with launch under the verbal command from the pilot.
Like on a carrier deck the pilot don't go nowhere unless/until the catapult officer says it's OK.
Assumptions are dangerous.
Like the one Tom's making for eighteen seconds? I'm having a hard time coming up with anything more dangerous than that.
And I'm pretty sure Chris would agree with me. For eighteen seconds Tom has no doubt whatsoever that he's safely connected to his glider. Chris is indicating doubt every few seconds the whole period he's sizing up the cycles.
BTDT.
We all have. I've been paying for two of assumptions - in rapid succession - with low level but constant pain for a couple of decades now.
When I walk forward to stretch the rigging, I can feel the leg loops.
Good.
I am sure others can feel theirs.
It would be an infinitely better idea to be sure they can't.
Please provide an instance where a turn and learn was performed and the pilot launched unhooked.
I may not be able to.
But one of the reasons is that pretty much EVERYBODY - including the Aussie Methodist morons - uses the goddam hang check as final confirmation of hook-in status and why bother doing a turn and learn or lift and tug after having JUST DONE a hang check a minute or two ago.
However it has the same vulnerability that a hang check does:
- Oops, forgot to adjust the camera.
Granted it's safer cause it's a better inspection and necessitates no assistance and less time and effort than a hang check and thus is more likely to get repeated after the camera is adjusted... But with enough monkeys and enough cameras...
And, in any case, our big problem is no way in hell people who DID the check launching unhooked. It's people who THINK they did the check launching unhooked.
Ann would be proud of you.
Gawd I hope not.
The shorter the delay between final check and commitment, the simpler and easier you make the check, and the greater the fear level two seconds before launch the fewer people you're gonna kill.
I see no problem with the way Tom waited to launch.
Considering the fact that it's Tom launching - neither do I.
For someone about whom I give a rat's ass, however, I see a lot more problem with it than the way Chris is waiting to launch. Sometimes you can get killed a lot a lot easier by doing nothing than you can by doing something.
Out here, we do not have the luxury of consistant laminar 10 knot breezes to ease on into.
I wish I had a nickel for every time I've been told by someone how close to death everyone always is launching at their particular local sites and that a momentary tensioning of the suspension within five seconds of launch would increase the launch fatality rate ten times what it is now.
And, of course, IF they survive these launches their LZs are all narrow dry riverbeds with large rocks strewn all over the place so it would be totally insane to ever attempt wheel landings.
But when you ask to see the videos the worst launch conditions are like these:
And let's note that Tom has the luxury of a consistent laminar eight knot breeze to ease on into.
The pilot, after making his 'just prior to launch' determination, must wait...
If there's a wait it's not "just prior".
0+18≠0
...until conditions are such that a safe launch is possible. It may be 1 second...
0+1=1
...or it may be 10 minutes.
0+10*60≠0
Conditions, not your dogma, determine when to launch.
1. So what does that hafta do with the USHGA regulation:
With each flight, demonstrates a method of establishing that the pilot is hooked in just prior to launch.
2. Ever notice how the only people who find lift and tug so undoable and/or dangerous in so many different circumstances are the people who...
Rob Kells - 2005/12
Always lift the glider vertically and feel the tug on the leg straps when the harness mains go tight, just before you start your launch run. I always use this test.
...NEVER do it?
3. Ever notice how little resistance there is to USHGA's certifiably insane landing policy which causes people to snap arms and rip up shoulders like they're going out of style and how massive the resistance is to lift and tug due to totally imaginary dangers for which the evidence is totally nonexistent? With hang checks, Industry Standard releases, and standard aerotow weak links and standup, no step, spot landings USHGA and hang gliding culture have been able to take the two most dangerous phases of flight and multiply the danger inherent in conventional aviation by a factor of twenty.
4. You're saying that it simply may not be safe and sane to verify your connection at any time within a ten minute period between arrival at and departure from launch. You're saying that this regulation:
With each flight, demonstrates a method of establishing that the pilot is hooked in just prior to launch.
is, under many circumstances, potentially lethal. So, instead of just making justifications for people pissing all over it for whatever reasons they choose or invent, how come you're not campaigning for USHGA to get it stricken from the SOPs and made a GUIDELINE? That's what Dr. Trisa Tilletti did when to legalize the use of bent pin releases which no way in hell could handle the REQUIREMENT of twice weak link.
Yet, a shuttle had fatal problems due to a preflight glitch.
No. One shuttle was blown up and another was burned up because of known issues that you didn't hafta be a rocket scientist to understand and that the operators chose to roll dice with in lieu of addressing. (The shuttle comes down as glider - I wonder how many USHGA officials NASA was using as consultants for the program.)
But, in any case, in a shuttle launch there's nothing analogous to this issue we have in foot launched hang gliding. This issue has WAY more in common with firearms safety issues than anything in conventional aviation.
You do not know what Kunio thought; you only know that he launched unhooked.
We know what his procedures were 'cause we know the local custom and we have video evidence.
The local custom was - and IS - to do a hang check behind launch...
...clear your mind, and start focusing on ribbons and cycles.
We all know EXACTLY what he was (and wasn't) thinking as he approached launch, prepared to launch, and committed. He was thinking he was safely hooked in the same way he always had been for every previous launch of his hang gliding career.
And we all know EXACTLY what he was thinking and feeling from two seconds afterwards on.
And we all know EXACTLY what his friends, wife, and kids were feeling watching the ensuing horror show.
That kind of logic demands that we check those sidewires and the rest of the pre-flight "just prior to launch".
Bullshit. The logic demands that we ignore the issues that are nonissues and focus full bore on the couple that are.
When we start having issues with sidewires and the rest of preflight items because people FORGOT to address them in the setup area let me know and we can come up with plans to deal with them.
This is a McClure launch where the pilot is waiting through the excessive and turbulent conditions to launch into a lull. Notice that the glider does not pop into the air like on laminar breeze launches. The pilot has done an assisted hook in check in the relative calm behind the launch. The pilot is fighting to keep the angle of attack low to the oncoming wind to keep the glider under control.
Launch is affected by watching the grass and bushes below launch. When a short lull comes through, it's size and intensity will be indicated by the grass and bushes. A split second decision is made to launch and then you launch. No time for lift and tug.
Lift and tug under these conditions?
Why expose yourself to the danger of loosing control of the glider to determine something you already know? The pilot determined that he was hooked in before walking up to the launch point.
Out here, in reality, the launch process begins when after the pilot performs the hook in check and walks to the launch point.
USHPA wrote:With each flight, demonstrates a method of establishing that the pilot is hooked in just prior to launch.
Is USHPA's condition satisfied in the above example. Yes it is. I expect you and Ann will come up with rebop and semantics to refute this.
common sense wrote:Conditions, not your dogma, determine when to launch.
